No. I have two of them, both generations of 86. Our 86/BRZ group in Los Angeles meets up every month and we're pushing about 50 cars majority of time. Some of the coolest people I've ever met before. And the cars are 80% the fun of a Porsche for fraction of the cost.
@@daycrew 2022+ for sure. The engine feels underrated. If I didn’t know anything about either car and drove a 1st gen, and they told me that car makes 150hp, I’d truly believe it. If I drove a 2nd gen after and they told me this one makes 250hp, I’d also believe it.
I’d be curious to feel the difference between a tuned first gen and 2nd gen, I feel like the fact the second gen doesn’t have that torque dip might be responsible for the big difference in feel. Love the way the second generation looks though.
Gen 2 owner here. Straight line speed isn't everything. If you've driven a Cayman, you'll find the GR86/BRZ to be 80% of a Cayman, except it's more tail happy since it's front engined. Half of the fun is speed. The other half is driver engagement, and the twins have it in spades. This car is pretty much a 90s JDM car in spirit. With emphasis on being driver focused, rawness, tunability and aftermarket support. Aside from an MX5 and a Lotus, it's hard to find anything quite like the twins. The operative words being "sports car".
People say: ‘’we want that oldschool vibe in modern cars. They don’t make them as fun as before’’. Toyota proceeds to do exactly that* All hating cus it’s only 200hp and without turbo
@@Teleios15013even keeping it NA you can make about 200whp. The few who hate on it have never driven one outside of a parking lot or running an errand 😆
Nothing tops the agility of the twins, within their price bracket, especially with some good tyres and with the torque dip tuned out, while still not lightning fast, it’s quick enough to feel the sensation of speed and will blow your mind with how much speed you can carry through corners and have the car feel completely composed. Chris Harris’s original review of the twins said it best, these cars are about performance for its nature, not because of its quantity, while heavier, more powerful cars might be larger plates of adequately prepared food, the twins are a smaller plate of much more expertly prepared flavours. I think this metaphor sums it up perfectly.
Imo the 86 chassis is a great teaching tool on performance driving. It has no power, so you have to work super hard to keep the speed up in the corners. It's a testament on driver's skills rather than pure car performance. I will always say this, doing a 1:50 at a race track with a C8 corvette will feel really different than Miata/86/s2000 doing the exact same lap time.
Most of the people I've come across who hate on them have never ridden in one before. The only reason people hate on them is because they stand basically alone in a class of cars that was made up of the Eclipse, Integra, 240SX, Celica etc.
I've had mine for 11 years! After the first 12 months I got headers, exhaust and tune! To get rid of the torque dip and it worked a treat! I was about to get rid of her 3 months ago but boosted her instead! Now I'm pushing 222rkw on 98. It still has the 86 feel but with alot more power and that BOV sound! I would 100% recommend boosting it if you have the funds.
I really dont hear much hate for this car at all, feels like 9/10 people think its a tremendous value and fun, and then that 1 person thinks that you need 800 HP to feel anything when you drive a car
I just picked up a 17 BRZ and it is the fastest car I've ever owned. It is FUN. It has the giggle factor that just brings out your inner child in wanting to go fast. If i had a faster car, id be getting so many speeding tickets. This is the perfect balance of not too fast that it'll get you in trouble but still very fun to drive. My only complaint is the head unit and speakers suck to the point trying to call people is useless cause you cant tell what theyre saying and they cant tell what youre saying.
Gen 2 BRZ owner for 2 years and my two cents is that it scales with driver skill. The better you are at driving and the more you can push it the more fun it gets. On a mountain road it is a lot of fun. But you have to be careful since even after upgrading wheels and tyres, its still a RWD and will slide put if you take a corner too hot and / or overload the rears during corners. However, when stuck in traffic or just going around town, it is a pretty bland experience. And since its NA, it feels very slow and low torque when going from a stop or trying to overtake at normal speeds. It doesn't want to move below 4000 rpm but once you get up in the rev range it changes entriely and becomes a missile but you are in speeding ticket range by then. Also it loves eating my money with mods since theres so much good options and I keep thinking, "oh just one more mod will make it perfect" but there is never an end. I just ran out of money and had to stop. I do recommend an exhaust with the gen2 since stock it muffles the sound a lot.
All americans saying a 200hp car is slow need to remember their roads are straight and running a 200hp car might feel slow. Just remember a sub 1 ton car with 50 hp can be fun, but its why it wasnt sold in america
My point of view is sometimes less is more, screw the bobbles, and I view this as a modern day replacement for the 1972 Datsun 240Z that I once owned, as the new Z might be a nice car, it isn't a true representation of what it was. I think this platform deserves more credit and less whining for the price point and the fun it will provide.
As an owner of a 73 240Z rolling chassis with parts for restomod, that 400 is not a Z. It has no original Z traits. Also, as much as I like the BRZ, I cannot consider it a modern 240Z. The TVR Sagaris IMO is the closest to what a modern Z should've been (but with less vents and such on the body). It has a 400hp I6. It weighs less than 2500lbs and is relatively affordable....for what it is.
I love mine fast enough. Perfect around the city so nimble. Braking is awesome. I’ll be hard pressed to find anything else that has the drive dynamics of this thing.
I just bought a brz (automatic) crucify me if you want. But i love ittt my first sports car and i have so much fun with it. Im have a few fun twisty roads in my hometown and im lowkey addicted just going to them for a run. I love how the touch screen has gotten better but they do keep all the dials and buttons which is amazing the touch screen is mainly for music. Its a super fun car. And yea the engine isnt crazy but hearing that rumble in a cold start is so nice
If you put aside the fact that it's true they are not a power house, they check pretty much every aspect of what a fun car has to be. Toyota & Subaru could have made it turbo, but the MSRP would had be probably 10 000$ at minimum. To me when people tell me they should be turbo from the factory and they would be perfect, I tell them well Toyota has one and it's called a Supra you can get the entry one with the 2L or grab the 6 cylinder if you have deeper pockets. Almost all the time I get the "Supra is way pricier".
I like the supra, but I wonder if a turbo version of the 86 would’ve been a lot different, more raw, rather than the supra which is more of a technical/modern car. I would’ve loved to see it, but ultimately it’s not impossible to do ourselves anyway!
I love my 14 BRZ so much, the I'm legit worried about my next car and if it will live up to the fun I've had in the twistys (ahem tail of the dragon 😉)
@MyGoToUserName depends what brand you're getting. There's ones mainly for track and cheap like maxspeeding rods while there is one that can be used for both track and on the street when adjusting it.
@@arcanevoid9199 oh yea for sure. I've had them before on my car and it rode like crap lmao. Felt every ounce of pebbles on the road but it sure kept me awake and aware on the road.
I had one ❤ loved it, great fun no need to go over the speed limit to feel that I’m going fast. 💨 and if needed I can squeeze 2 people in the back, or my bicycle, or 4 tyres for track days .. of which I never needed😂
I'm sure Toyota learned their lesson by now don't listen to the internet "We want a spiritual successor to the 86... What do you mean it's not 10K brand new and 0 to 60 and under 4 seconds" "You know what it would be so much better with a turbo" *Toyota builds the 2Liter Supra that fits right in between the GR Supra and and the GT86* "... I would buy it but it doesn't have a manual" Ya'll deserve the E.V future
Sadly, i feel like if youre competitive and wanna chase numbers and be fast, you have to nowadays, atleast have 400hp. 200hp just seems like a slap in the face.
@ im not talking about 0-60 times, i mean feeling the Gs on corner exit and long turns, including the straights. I can lie to myself and pretend like i dont care about speed but i do think it leads to a more fun experience. Just my opinion of course
Yeah definitely I get what you mean! It depends what is the most fun for you, I definitely love sending a turbo hot hatch, but I also have a lot of fun in the 100hp miata, it’s just different 🤷🏻♂️
I will never understand why they used a fragile asthmatic boxer instead of the 300hp v6 in the Camry and lotus Exige/Evora/Emira I would literally buy one tomorrow if not for the garbage engine choice.
to keep the weight low, and the center of gravity low. Adding a bigger more powerful engine requires strengthening the drivetrain, fitting the car with bigger wheels and stickier tires offering less choice to the driver for how they want the car to be. If they developed the car with the V6 from the Camry, it would be more in line with what the 370z is which wasn't what they were going for.
@ the weight difference is not enough for that claim to be true bud and even if you add 100lbs to the weight of a brz you are still more that 500lbs less than a 350/70 and then they wouldn’t blow up going around right turns and wouldn’t lose to stock Miata’s 🤷♂️
@BRZguy I have to agree with you here, there’s already enough mid size sports cars, lightweight rwds are pretty rare (can’t even think of any competitors to the 86 in its price range, aside from maybe the miata)
@@M-PASTA If you read what I said, you'd know that the weight difference would increase with the reinforcing of the drivetrain. And bigger wheels add a shit ton of weight as well. Which would be needed to get the right kind of traction. These are all things that the engineers outlined why they made the car that way. Miatas are pretty fast nowadays. They have a bit more torque and better powerband but with the benefit of being lighter weight due to no rear seats and no roof. None of this stuff should be surprising.
Do you think this car deserves the hate?
No. I have two of them, both generations of 86. Our 86/BRZ group in Los Angeles meets up every month and we're pushing about 50 cars majority of time. Some of the coolest people I've ever met before. And the cars are 80% the fun of a Porsche for fraction of the cost.
Yes, it keeps prices low.
@@moldyrefrigerator which generations your favourite?
@@daycrew 2022+ for sure. The engine feels underrated. If I didn’t know anything about either car and drove a 1st gen, and they told me that car makes 150hp, I’d truly believe it. If I drove a 2nd gen after and they told me this one makes 250hp, I’d also believe it.
I’d be curious to feel the difference between a tuned first gen and 2nd gen, I feel like the fact the second gen doesn’t have that torque dip might be responsible for the big difference in feel. Love the way the second generation looks though.
86 doesn't deserve the hate, but the owners... 👀
sounds like the Focus and Fiesta ST lol
Gen 2 owner here. Straight line speed isn't everything. If you've driven a Cayman, you'll find the GR86/BRZ to be 80% of a Cayman, except it's more tail happy since it's front engined. Half of the fun is speed. The other half is driver engagement, and the twins have it in spades.
This car is pretty much a 90s JDM car in spirit. With emphasis on being driver focused, rawness, tunability and aftermarket support. Aside from an MX5 and a Lotus, it's hard to find anything quite like the twins. The operative words being "sports car".
What is the definition for MX5 to you?
I am kinda interested.
@@ernesto893 Light, nimble, zippy
@ Thanks!
People say: ‘’we want that oldschool vibe in modern cars. They don’t make them as fun as before’’.
Toyota proceeds to do exactly that*
All hating cus it’s only 200hp and without turbo
The power problem is also easily fixed adding your own turbo
@@Teleios15013even keeping it NA you can make about 200whp. The few who hate on it have never driven one outside of a parking lot or running an errand 😆
Nothing tops the agility of the twins, within their price bracket, especially with some good tyres and with the torque dip tuned out, while still not lightning fast, it’s quick enough to feel the sensation of speed and will blow your mind with how much speed you can carry through corners and have the car feel completely composed. Chris Harris’s original review of the twins said it best, these cars are about performance for its nature, not because of its quantity, while heavier, more powerful cars might be larger plates of adequately prepared food, the twins are a smaller plate of much more expertly prepared flavours. I think this metaphor sums it up perfectly.
Well said!
Imo the 86 chassis is a great teaching tool on performance driving. It has no power, so you have to work super hard to keep the speed up in the corners.
It's a testament on driver's skills rather than pure car performance.
I will always say this, doing a 1:50 at a race track with a C8 corvette will feel really different than Miata/86/s2000 doing the exact same lap time.
Great point! It’s a car that can go fast, but you need to be able to get it there (and the handling does help!)
Most of the people I've come across who hate on them have never ridden in one before. The only reason people hate on them is because they stand basically alone in a class of cars that was made up of the Eclipse, Integra, 240SX, Celica etc.
people who hate on them are the same ones who say anything under 500hp is slow lol. keyboard warriors who don't have a car
I've had mine for 11 years! After the first 12 months I got headers, exhaust and tune! To get rid of the torque dip and it worked a treat! I was about to get rid of her 3 months ago but boosted her instead! Now I'm pushing 222rkw on 98. It still has the 86 feel but with alot more power and that BOV sound! I would 100% recommend boosting it if you have the funds.
222kw sounds insane!
@daycrew oh it is! Light weight, RWD with all the whistles, pops and bangs!
I really dont hear much hate for this car at all, feels like 9/10 people think its a tremendous value and fun, and then that 1 person thinks that you need 800 HP to feel anything when you drive a car
Definitely, often you see people saying more horsepower = better
One of the best interiors out right now. It don't look pretty but it works, which seems a high bar to clear recently.
It really does feel like it's been built for driving rather than just looking good. Rather than a washing machine interior *cough* Tesla *cough*
I just picked up a 17 BRZ and it is the fastest car I've ever owned. It is FUN. It has the giggle factor that just brings out your inner child in wanting to go fast. If i had a faster car, id be getting so many speeding tickets. This is the perfect balance of not too fast that it'll get you in trouble but still very fun to drive.
My only complaint is the head unit and speakers suck to the point trying to call people is useless cause you cant tell what theyre saying and they cant tell what youre saying.
Definitely, the speakers are one of my biggest complaints, but at least you’ve got that boxer rumble to listen to instead of
Gen 2 BRZ owner for 2 years and my two cents is that it scales with driver skill. The better you are at driving and the more you can push it the more fun it gets. On a mountain road it is a lot of fun. But you have to be careful since even after upgrading wheels and tyres, its still a RWD and will slide put if you take a corner too hot and / or overload the rears during corners.
However, when stuck in traffic or just going around town, it is a pretty bland experience. And since its NA, it feels very slow and low torque when going from a stop or trying to overtake at normal speeds. It doesn't want to move below 4000 rpm but once you get up in the rev range it changes entriely and becomes a missile but you are in speeding ticket range by then.
Also it loves eating my money with mods since theres so much good options and I keep thinking, "oh just one more mod will make it perfect" but there is never an end. I just ran out of money and had to stop. I do recommend an exhaust with the gen2 since stock it muffles the sound a lot.
No. Just most of the owners.
😂 true
All americans saying a 200hp car is slow need to remember their roads are straight and running a 200hp car might feel slow. Just remember a sub 1 ton car with 50 hp can be fun, but its why it wasnt sold in america
My point of view is sometimes less is more, screw the bobbles, and I view this as a modern day replacement for the 1972 Datsun 240Z that I once owned, as the new Z might be a nice car, it isn't a true representation of what it was. I think this platform deserves more credit and less whining for the price point and the fun it will provide.
240z is a beautiful car! I’ve often wondered which jdm cars will become icons in 30-50+ years the same way the 240 is today.
As an owner of a 73 240Z rolling chassis with parts for restomod, that 400 is not a Z. It has no original Z traits. Also, as much as I like the BRZ, I cannot consider it a modern 240Z.
The TVR Sagaris IMO is the closest to what a modern Z should've been (but with less vents and such on the body). It has a 400hp I6. It weighs less than 2500lbs and is relatively affordable....for what it is.
I love mine fast enough. Perfect around the city so nimble. Braking is awesome. I’ll be hard pressed to find anything else that has the drive dynamics of this thing.
I just bought a brz (automatic) crucify me if you want. But i love ittt my first sports car and i have so much fun with it. Im have a few fun twisty roads in my hometown and im lowkey addicted just going to them for a run. I love how the touch screen has gotten better but they do keep all the dials and buttons which is amazing the touch screen is mainly for music. Its a super fun car. And yea the engine isnt crazy but hearing that rumble in a cold start is so nice
If you put aside the fact that it's true they are not a power house, they check pretty much every aspect of what a fun car has to be.
Toyota & Subaru could have made it turbo, but the MSRP would had be probably 10 000$ at minimum.
To me when people tell me they should be turbo from the factory and they would be perfect, I tell them well Toyota has one and it's called a Supra you can get the entry one with the 2L or grab the 6 cylinder if you have deeper pockets. Almost all the time I get the "Supra is way pricier".
I like the supra, but I wonder if a turbo version of the 86 would’ve been a lot different, more raw, rather than the supra which is more of a technical/modern car.
I would’ve loved to see it, but ultimately it’s not impossible to do ourselves anyway!
@daycrew you are right🤜🤛
i love how the FR-S interior doesn’t have that ugly screen display makes it look retro 90s
It’s not the lack of power/ it’s the fact that they blow up so easily
I love my 14 BRZ so much, the I'm legit worried about my next car and if it will live up to the fun I've had in the twistys (ahem tail of the dragon 😉)
All these BRZs and still no coilovers in sight 😂
Probably why it's a fun street car. Easiest way to ruin a car is putting crap coils on it.
@MyGoToUserName depends what brand you're getting. There's ones mainly for track and cheap like maxspeeding rods while there is one that can be used for both track and on the street when adjusting it.
@@EnhancedTrashBin maxspeedingrods are just trash overall
@@arcanevoid9199 oh yea for sure. I've had them before on my car and it rode like crap lmao. Felt every ounce of pebbles on the road but it sure kept me awake and aware on the road.
Yes (I'm trying to keep prices down for when I get one)
As an frs owner is it slow . . . Yes! Is it a freaking blast to drive.... also yes!
previous owner here, yes it totally deserves it because of that garbage boxer
I had one ❤ loved it, great fun no need to go over the speed limit to feel that I’m going fast. 💨 and if needed I can squeeze 2 people in the back, or my bicycle, or 4 tyres for track days .. of which I never needed😂
Exactly!
#Justice4Celicas
No God is punishing them for a reason
I don't think the average person ever even considers the 86 for even a second....
What’s the exact exhaust setup of Zach’s 86 in the video? Thanks!
Tomei UEL headers, a custom muffler setup and dual exit. If you wanted a similar sound, get a muffler delete and the UEL headers.
Damn you’ve got a DJ set? You should upload some of your sets!
No that was just stock footage I swear 👀
I'm sure Toyota learned their lesson by now don't listen to the internet
"We want a spiritual successor to the 86... What do you mean it's not 10K brand new and 0 to 60 and under 4 seconds"
"You know what it would be so much better with a turbo" *Toyota builds the 2Liter Supra that fits right in between the GR Supra and and the GT86*
"... I would buy it but it doesn't have a manual"
Ya'll deserve the E.V future
Lol the owner is a typical 86 owner. He replaces the exhaust before he buys coilovers.
😂 yep
Ace Header FTW!
Banger
So gooood!
86 and brz are just slow they are good around corners and bends
Sadly, i feel like if youre competitive and wanna chase numbers and be fast, you have to nowadays, atleast have 400hp. 200hp just seems like a slap in the face.
I understand if you want to chase numbers or 0-60 times yes, but I don’t think that is the target audience for this car.
@ im not talking about 0-60 times, i mean feeling the Gs on corner exit and long turns, including the straights. I can lie to myself and pretend like i dont care about speed but i do think it leads to a more fun experience. Just my opinion of course
Yeah definitely I get what you mean! It depends what is the most fun for you, I definitely love sending a turbo hot hatch, but I also have a lot of fun in the 100hp miata, it’s just different 🤷🏻♂️
@@daycrew i respect it man. I wont ever shit on anyones experience as long as theyre having fun. My 370z is slow as hell so im familiar with 100hp
Wow! The DayCrew, have outdone themselves with this one. Doug Demuro look out. Keen for more.
🎉🎉🎉
I will never understand why they used a fragile asthmatic boxer instead of the 300hp v6 in the Camry and lotus Exige/Evora/Emira I would literally buy one tomorrow if not for the garbage engine choice.
I’d love to see someone Camry swap the 86 😂
to keep the weight low, and the center of gravity low. Adding a bigger more powerful engine requires strengthening the drivetrain, fitting the car with bigger wheels and stickier tires offering less choice to the driver for how they want the car to be. If they developed the car with the V6 from the Camry, it would be more in line with what the 370z is which wasn't what they were going for.
@ the weight difference is not enough for that claim to be true bud and even if you add 100lbs to the weight of a brz you are still more that 500lbs less than a 350/70 and then they wouldn’t blow up going around right turns and wouldn’t lose to stock Miata’s 🤷♂️
@BRZguy I have to agree with you here, there’s already enough mid size sports cars, lightweight rwds are pretty rare (can’t even think of any competitors to the 86 in its price range, aside from maybe the miata)
@@M-PASTA If you read what I said, you'd know that the weight difference would increase with the reinforcing of the drivetrain. And bigger wheels add a shit ton of weight as well. Which would be needed to get the right kind of traction. These are all things that the engineers outlined why they made the car that way. Miatas are pretty fast nowadays. They have a bit more torque and better powerband but with the benefit of being lighter weight due to no rear seats and no roof. None of this stuff should be surprising.
answer: yes, unless you mod it 😂
Because it has a stupid ass subaru motor.
Misunderstood.