Everyone knows Einstein famously disagrees, but he remains silent. When he does speak--ultimately his argument is "proved wrong" in the end, but the back-and-forth that ensued between him and Bohr shows just how valuable conversation can be a way to learn!
A quick point about uncertainly principle, its not actually about someone trying to measure it, the universe doesn't care if you're a rational agent trying to determine something. Its more that the object can be in multiple places until it interacts with another object at which point its position is determined.
"It was like an elaborate game." Screenshot of Dwarf Fortress. Which, if you know anything about that little bundle of coded madness kind of supports a form of "Uncertainty Principle" in and of itself since you have no way of knowing what those insane bunch of hoopleheads are going to do next... except immediately run to grab a dead dwarf's stuff, even if said pile of stuff is still being trampled by elephants and/or on fire.
@@Cecilia-ky3uw you must be a Christian. That's why you're saying this. Christianity doesn't have enough evidence and proof of God, just a leap of faith that makes you think of God.
Great episode! I love the sense of friendly rivalry between the two. No anger or bitterness in their arguments, it's not in any way personal. They're just two men with an enormous amount of respect for each other who just happen to completely disagree on a particular question. By the way, not to sound nitpicky but "coup de grace" has an "s" sound at the end. Kinda like "coo day grass" with "grass" rhyming with "Ross"
@Daniel Wilson - Gainax would be best - they practically invented the 'brainfuck' genre of anime and it would fit this topic perfectly. [not that gainax need any quantum mechanic to make your brain hurt] .... But it would be anime where every scientist would be 14 years old kid, every one of them has some family problem and you would have to wait 10 years for last episode. And the last scene of it would be everybody clapping and making congratulations :)
Great list of scientists starting at 0:58. But probably should have also mentioned that Schrödinger attended, given that he was one of the key figures in the development of quantum mechanics. (Maybe that was his famous cat making a cameo at the end of the video, though? 😊)
Between "I know, Zoe, my head's *spinning* too" and Zoe casually making a "quantum leap" at the end, I love this episode very much. Also, I love everything before it, aswell. After, not too much.
chakatfirepaw It really isn't as simple as that, as Joshua above suggests. Spinoza held to a type of dualism. What was unusual about him was he didn't place so much importance on soul/mind/thought, he, in principle, put _equal_ importance on Thought and Extension/body. He says _"extension and thought are either attributes of God or accidents of the attributes of God"._
The Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle can actually be stumbled into when doing chemistry. I used NMR to study molecules, and if you try hard enough to figure out the exact spin energy of the nuclei, you can run into a wall: detecting the change in energy is such a precise time information that you don't get as much information about the energy x)
It's really a fundamental principle of measurements. FFTs are the same way. You can either know the frequency of an event happening precisely or you can know the time between two events precisely. It also makes sense, I think. Position can be represented by [t, x, y, z], but for velocity, you need ([t, x, y, z], ([t+1, x, y, z]).
Zoey: _meows, gets on Matt's head_ Matt: "I know, Zoey. My head's spinning, too." Hopefully not too much. I would _not_ want a cat on my head to feel unstable...
I don't want to be picky but "coup de grâce is actually pronounced "coup de grass" (and not "coup de gra"). "Coup de grâce" means "final blow" but as you pronouced it, it seems to mean "blow of fat". Great video though !
That's how science works. You are wrong all the time, but with a little luck you're a little less wrong with each iteration of your theory. But seeing how far empiric proofs through actual experiments are behind theoretical proofs and thought experiments it's pretty hard to say if the current paradigm is going in the right direction or not.
Crimson51 Which aspect were they wrong about? Or do you mean the explanation regarding the general relativistic time dilation in weighing the photon box?
Clancy James Without going into it too much, their experiments to show that the theory was right/wrong were shown to be flawed and inaccurate. Not because they were dumb, but because their tools weren't good enough at the time.
I hope this series has a satisfying conclusion, because I sort of know most of this already so far, but don't know much about how it applies to computers beyond having bits that can have superpositions (basically using quantum "probability waves" to allow for probabilistic bits).
Ive taken physics courses based around much of this stuff, and chemistry courses that live in the quantum, but it all still blows my mind every time and will continue to do so every time as well.
What is the official language of the conference? German, French, or English? I really wonder how these pre-WWII physicists from different nations communicate with each others.
Ra That’s a good question! I’m not 100% sure, but I would guess French. During this time, French was still the primary language of diplomacy, science and business.
can you do a special about the 80 years war? its a really interesting topic of how a 17th century superpower came to be and how they ran their schemes , furthermore it contains lots of battles and interesting sieges, just yesterday we celebrated 'het ontzet van leiden'' ontzet means breaking a siege. it is so interesting!
You know what. No matter how many times I watch, listen or read about this topic, I still am in awe how a handful group of people figured out such complexity of a theory. And no I still don't have a good understanding of the topic.
What I find interesting is these debates delayed the discussion on pilot wave, this primarily in the coopenhagen forum, when pilot wave is now being reapproached almost a century later. The implications of pilot wave could be the next big thing by the way.
QED is "Quod erat demonstrandum", meaning as much as "what was to be shown" (as in: "This is what was to be shown."). Your version, "Quod erat demonstradum" doesn't actually mean anything, because "demonstradum" is not a form of the Latin "demonstrare". A common misconception is that QED means "Quod erat demonstratum" ("what had been shown") and is probably what you were thinking of. :) Edit: And a great video, of course! Love the series!
At 9:18, is the movement you are referring to the recoiling of the box after the photon leaves it or are you referring to the movement of the photon itself?
My earliest understanding of quantum physics was that matter is not solid by any stretch of the imagination. It's complex and interwoven, but there are always gaps between everything. Sometimes those gaps are far too small for us to observe, but they are there. Ultimately, all matter is made up of such infinitesimally tiny sub-particles that, to the smallest of those sub-particles, a solid wall of iron is more like an iron mesh grate with massive stretches between the mesh that they could easily pass through. Even as you get to larger particles in the subatomic range, some of them are still so small (electrons in particular) that the gaps between other particles are entirely possible to traverse. Especially if their cohesion is not absolute within themselves: suppose an electron's bonds between its quantum particles are less fused than those of protons and neutrons. Suppose they can spread apart from one another in any number of configurations, yet retain a link to one another via whatever attraction they possess that drew them to one another in the first place. The entire field is quite fascinating, no matter what angle you approach it from. It really forces you to consider the fact that most of what we observe isn't really "permanent" or "solid" the way we think it to be. For practical purposes it is, but much like computer code, that practicality only functions so long as you're looking at the problem from certain angles. Once you start doing things that aren't "supposed" to be possible within the practical perspective but are possible because nothing in the way things work fundamentally prevents it, that's when things get REALLY interesting.
EC: "If you remember our conversation about wave particle duality" Me: NOPE! This is just an episode in your series on wizardry & black magic that plays between each Majapahit episode, but go on.
2:51 What is updog? In this episode series, it keeps appearing in such scene. What does it stand for? What is its meaning? Why write "updog" to represent uncertainty?
the reflective box example is wrong as photons do not have mass and e=mc^2 does not apply to them ,instead you have to use the equation e=pc. photon leaving the box would have no affect on its weight.
Everyone knows Einstein famously disagrees, but he remains silent. When he does speak--ultimately his argument is "proved wrong" in the end, but the back-and-forth that ensued between him and Bohr shows just how valuable conversation can be a way to learn!
Ok but how did you post this 3 days ago. Spooky action...
3:40 the burger has cheese and he had alergy to lactose
excuse me , WHAT
A quick point about uncertainly principle, its not actually about someone trying to measure it, the universe doesn't care if you're a rational agent trying to determine something. Its more that the object can be in multiple places until it interacts with another object at which point its position is determined.
Hello Extra History squad! I have a question: What does ”up dog” mean? Thanks!
P.S You guys are really awesome. I wish you success!
"Never trust an atom. They make up everything."
I don't know if the person who made up that pun is great or should be put to shame :P
I laughed and I thought I had no emotion left in my soul.
You know what, I was contemplating that but then decided it was too grim.
They should be lauded, and shamed, as all great punsters should be.
*gasp* It was a pun...
I was going to make a chemistry pun, but the best ones argon. :D
Einstein: "It's over, Bohr. I have the high ground."
Bohr: "You underestimate my photons."
"It was like an elaborate game." Screenshot of Dwarf Fortress. Which, if you know anything about that little bundle of coded madness kind of supports a form of "Uncertainty Principle" in and of itself since you have no way of knowing what those insane bunch of hoopleheads are going to do next... except immediately run to grab a dead dwarf's stuff, even if said pile of stuff is still being trampled by elephants and/or on fire.
"Don't forget to SMASH that LIKE button" - Niels Bohr, 1927
Einstein: "God does not throw dice."
Bohr: "Stop telling God what to do."
god does not exist though so god does not throw dice we dont know whether theres even a someone who throws a dice
@@Cecilia-ky3uw H E N C E U N C E R T A I N T Y ! ! !
@@Cecilia-ky3uw you are too small to say God does not exist.
You don't exist in front of god
@@gursimarsingh5505 god does not exist like unicorns doesnt exist im not 100 percent sure but im sure enough
@@Cecilia-ky3uw you must be a Christian.
That's why you're saying this.
Christianity doesn't have enough evidence and proof of God, just a leap of faith that makes you think of God.
Does anyone know if Zoey's "meow" is an actual recording of Matt's cat going "meow," or an effect that was obtained from somewhere else?
THIS is what great minds should be discussing about
I'd say obtained somewhere else.
Bannerlord When lol
My personal therory is that the cat butts in while recording and he just improvises. The animators do the rest.
Your name, Bannerlord When, I was wondering the same thing at work today
Great episode! I love the sense of friendly rivalry between the two. No anger or bitterness in their arguments, it's not in any way personal. They're just two men with an enormous amount of respect for each other who just happen to completely disagree on a particular question.
By the way, not to sound nitpicky but "coup de grace" has an "s" sound at the end. Kinda like "coo day grass" with "grass" rhyming with "Ross"
I thought Einstein had a German accent but apparently he has some alluring deep voice. Einstein, y u do dis to meh.
Einstein had both at once; Not-Dan just collapsed it into just the alluring deep voice.
It was a Yiddish accent;)
Yeah, that genuinely threw me off. Einstein definitely had a very prominent German accent.
@@sponge1234ify is this a play on quantum mechanics….
@@xxnoobfiregamer2577 i tried.
Top 10 best anime debates of all time
I freaking dare BONES or Gainax or someone to make an anime of the Solvay conference.
@Daniel Wilson - Gainax would be best - they practically invented the 'brainfuck' genre of anime and it would fit this topic perfectly. [not that gainax need any quantum mechanic to make your brain hurt]
....
But it would be anime where every scientist would be 14 years old kid, every one of them has some family problem and you would have to wait 10 years for last episode. And the last scene of it would be everybody clapping and making congratulations :)
I don't think Trigger would have the patience
@Chuck The Aviator
What
@Chuck The Aviator
No it's if my great great grandfather
Great list of scientists starting at 0:58. But probably should have also mentioned that Schrödinger attended, given that he was one of the key figures in the development of quantum mechanics. (Maybe that was his famous cat making a cameo at the end of the video, though? 😊)
"Wow, that debate was Bohr-ing."
There, now you don't have to.
Thanks Einstein.
I think the debate was Einsteirtaining
Ein can't stand it
I don't eindersteined.
Dj Starbuck Ein can’t Stein your Alberstanding.
Between "I know, Zoe, my head's *spinning* too" and Zoe casually making a "quantum leap" at the end, I love this episode very much. Also, I love everything before it, aswell. After, not too much.
Lovely work, as always. One can tell the effort to make this minimally explainable in layman terms... I certainly couldn't.
This has to be my favorite short series from this channel so far
This might be the best episode Extra History has ever done, they convey information súper good.
Richard Feynman would be proud
Not once did you ever give Einstein's quote.
"God does not play dice with the Universe!"
Because Einstein's definition of "God" was REALLY WEIRD.
I'm pretty sure they did but a long time ago
@Dragon Dimosthenis I don't think he was a practicing jew
Correct, he wasn't. His view of 'god' was that of Spinoza, an anthropomorphizing of the laws of reality rather than a literal being.
chakatfirepaw
It really isn't as simple as that, as Joshua above suggests. Spinoza held to a type of dualism. What was unusual about him was he didn't place so much importance on soul/mind/thought, he, in principle, put _equal_ importance on Thought and Extension/body. He says _"extension and thought are either attributes of God or accidents of the attributes of God"._
The Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle can actually be stumbled into when doing chemistry. I used NMR to study molecules, and if you try hard enough to figure out the exact spin energy of the nuclei, you can run into a wall: detecting the change in energy is such a precise time information that you don't get as much information about the energy x)
It's really a fundamental principle of measurements. FFTs are the same way. You can either know the frequency of an event happening precisely or you can know the time between two events precisely. It also makes sense, I think. Position can be represented by [t, x, y, z], but for velocity, you need ([t, x, y, z], ([t+1, x, y, z]).
Zoey: _meows, gets on Matt's head_
Matt: "I know, Zoey. My head's spinning, too."
Hopefully not too much. I would _not_ want a cat on my head to feel unstable...
but is it spinning up or down?
Zoey is lucky she's not dead and alive
I just realized there's a spin pun in there :P
Which I suspect will be talked about in the next video.
Yeah, that would be painful...
In Dutch, 'spinnen' means 'purring' so nice coincidence!
Hats off to Alexander for commissioning this series, it's absolutely perfect! Big high five all around :)
The Quantum Computing series is really exciting
I think it's Bohring
I'm still uncertain
Physics rap battle?
ERB made one but it was Einstein vs Hawking.
I love those references xD.
5:37 "I have the high ground Bohrakin, your victory is uncertain" xD
Bohrakin: "U understimate me!!"
I hope Bohrakin never complained about sand
"Get your brains ready, this is going to get science-y" - God, I love you guys
The only thing that bothers me is that at 9:45 there is a puzzle piece not ye snapped in to anything but still in a spot
"Never Trust an ⚛️ Atom
they make up Everything"
I LOVE THAT🤣
Such an ambitious undertaking !
You guys are rocking it at explaining complex physics ! :'D
3:53 “No fair! You changed the outcome by measuring it!”
-Professor Farnsworth, Futurama
At 8:01, it dawned on him!
I have been looking for videos talking about this for hours and I am so glad i found them. Thank you very very much!!!
1:24 and 1:30 Ooohhh that's badass, the courage and art.
I don't want to be picky but "coup de grâce is actually pronounced "coup de grass" (and not "coup de gra"). "Coup de grâce" means "final blow" but as you pronouced it, it seems to mean "blow of fat".
Great video though !
Is that like how Fois Gras is pronounced?
it was pronounced like Foie Gras in this video, but you have to pronouce it like the grass in your garden ^^
Still works though, it's the death blow, except less graceful. ;)
Less LESS graceful ;-)
Less graceful, but more _greasefull_ :)
In the end, they were actually both wrong. However, Einstein was more wrong.
That's how science works. You are wrong all the time, but with a little luck you're a little less wrong with each iteration of your theory.
But seeing how far empiric proofs through actual experiments are behind theoretical proofs and thought experiments it's pretty hard to say if the current paradigm is going in the right direction or not.
"All models are wrong, but some are useful"
Especially because his (or his first wife's) most famous equation shown where is the problem with his whole argument...
Crimson51 Which aspect were they wrong about? Or do you mean the explanation regarding the general relativistic time dilation in weighing the photon box?
Clancy James Without going into it too much, their experiments to show that the theory was right/wrong were shown to be flawed and inaccurate. Not because they were dumb, but because their tools weren't good enough at the time.
Physics, computing and extra history? Sign me the heck up! Loving this series even more than usual (and that's a lot).
I hope this series has a satisfying conclusion, because I sort of know most of this already so far, but don't know much about how it applies to computers beyond having bits that can have superpositions (basically using quantum "probability waves" to allow for probabilistic bits).
Favorite series so far
6:53 when Schrödingers cat leaves the box😂😂😂😂
3 years later i can now understand and enjoy this videos, thx Extra Credit
I love the Dwarf Fortress screenshot at the beginning in reference to an "elaborate game"
Ive taken physics courses based around much of this stuff, and chemistry courses that live in the quantum, but it all still blows my mind every time and will continue to do so every time as well.
4:18 Honestly, that's the best fight club reference I've seen today
man this was both fascinating and wonderfully presented in terms of story telling
What is the official language of the conference? German, French, or English? I really wonder how these pre-WWII physicists from different nations communicate with each others.
Maybe they actually knew multiple languages in general but yeah it kind of makes you wonder in which language did they choose to communicate
Ra That’s a good question! I’m not 100% sure, but I would guess French. During this time, French was still the primary language of diplomacy, science and business.
Probably all three languages, but I believe Einstein and Bohr debated officially in English, and chatted with eachother in German.
But German was a primary language of science at this time too
As far as i know pre world war 2 physics was mostly german and english so probably a mix of both
I'd love if we could eventually get an episode or 3 on Curie.
Will have to replay the vid to fully understand everything
can you do a special about the 80 years war? its a really interesting topic of how a 17th century superpower came to be and how they ran their schemes , furthermore it contains lots of battles and interesting sieges, just yesterday we celebrated 'het ontzet van leiden'' ontzet means breaking a siege. it is so interesting!
So in my science class we learned about bohr's atom model and it used rings so in order to remember it we say bohr-ring
This is cool, the animations are just putting to this
Einsteinium and Bohrium are named after 2 physicists, who knew scientists would be so creative....
Stil better than the Very Large Telescope or the Extremely Large Telescope
you're right
oh come on VLT was inspired in its simplicity
Less effort on pointless things means more effort on progress. Science is hard enough without memorizing fancy names.
You're right.
We should name the telescopes Fluffles and Thumper instead.
"It's over, Niels! I have the high ground!"
"You underestimate the indeterminacy of my location!"
God, I love science jokes. 🤣
What kind of merch did they have at the con? I hope they had t-shirts.
0:30 Oooohhh that sounds fun!!
Don't tell God what to do with his dice
One of the most snappy comebacks ever
If God even plays dice.
You know what. No matter how many times I watch, listen or read about this topic, I still am in awe how a handful group of people figured out such complexity of a theory. And no I still don't have a good understanding of the topic.
I'm not usually a fan of Extra History but I'm all for Extra Quantum Physics.
I love the "Weigh the box" bit
this and the bismarck ship are probably the best EH to date
Great video! I think you should say that what was upseting Einstein was the randomness of Quantum Mechanic. "God do not flip a coin"!
If you don't walk out of a discussion of quantum mechanics with a headache, then you haven't even scratched the surface of it.
Narrators energy overshadows the content, which IS quite good.
Didn't expect a dwarf fortress reference! Nice!
What's *UPDOG* ?
Keep it up love all your content
What I find interesting is these debates delayed the discussion on pilot wave, this primarily in the coopenhagen forum, when pilot wave is now being reapproached almost a century later. The implications of pilot wave could be the next big thing by the way.
Thanks for walking us through this
I know nothing about physics, but watching a debate between scientists with different visions would be cool.
7 videos by channels I've subscribed to in the same day? Is this the day of heaven on Earth?
No that's a global conspiracy!
+M. T. (MT) Did I say 7? I meant 8
Oh, this is a good channel to find! Check out the various other subject channels, they're all equally great (extra history, extra sci-fi etc.)!
0:28 how do I play?
Extra Science series!!!
4:29 God like explanation, and even then i'm not understanding a thing, i lack the basics. It's still a blast tho.
8:09 "x + y = z^z^z..."
I was amused by a lot of the gags in the illustrations, but for some reason this one really got me!
wunderbar
In der Tat
Also, the name of a candy bar in Germany.
QED is "Quod erat demonstrandum", meaning as much as "what was to be shown" (as in: "This is what was to be shown."). Your version, "Quod erat demonstradum" doesn't actually mean anything, because "demonstradum" is not a form of the Latin "demonstrare". A common misconception is that QED means "Quod erat demonstratum" ("what had been shown") and is probably what you were thinking of. :)
Edit: And a great video, of course! Love the series!
Might just be misspelled.
Maybe, but the translation is still wrong ;)
I have gained too much K N O W L E G D E
also Extra Science when
I regret watching this while my head was already killing me from not drinking enough water
6:33. Weigh the box...
This is the best extra credits shoe
You should definitely cover renninger's negative reault experiment.
This just made me so happy!!! I love learning about the history of science!
At 9:18, is the movement you are referring to the recoiling of the box after the photon leaves it or are you referring to the movement of the photon itself?
To be a fly on the wall in this debate would be INCREDIBLE
The outro music is most excellent.
Best soundtrack you've ever had.
You guys should do a series on Pavel and Marrie Currie!
Really good video!!
My earliest understanding of quantum physics was that matter is not solid by any stretch of the imagination. It's complex and interwoven, but there are always gaps between everything. Sometimes those gaps are far too small for us to observe, but they are there. Ultimately, all matter is made up of such infinitesimally tiny sub-particles that, to the smallest of those sub-particles, a solid wall of iron is more like an iron mesh grate with massive stretches between the mesh that they could easily pass through. Even as you get to larger particles in the subatomic range, some of them are still so small (electrons in particular) that the gaps between other particles are entirely possible to traverse. Especially if their cohesion is not absolute within themselves: suppose an electron's bonds between its quantum particles are less fused than those of protons and neutrons. Suppose they can spread apart from one another in any number of configurations, yet retain a link to one another via whatever attraction they possess that drew them to one another in the first place.
The entire field is quite fascinating, no matter what angle you approach it from. It really forces you to consider the fact that most of what we observe isn't really "permanent" or "solid" the way we think it to be. For practical purposes it is, but much like computer code, that practicality only functions so long as you're looking at the problem from certain angles. Once you start doing things that aren't "supposed" to be possible within the practical perspective but are possible because nothing in the way things work fundamentally prevents it, that's when things get REALLY interesting.
Love your videos i show them to my teacher and she loves your vids to
5:33 mistake in the subtitles : it shouldn't be "a sale" it should be "assail"
EC: "If you remember our conversation about wave particle duality"
Me: NOPE! This is just an episode in your series on wizardry & black magic that plays between each Majapahit episode, but go on.
When you work so hard to make certain you're uncertain
2:51 What is updog? In this episode series, it keeps appearing in such scene. What does it stand for? What is its meaning? Why write "updog" to represent uncertainty?
It's a meme. You passingly mention "updog", and if someone asks you "What's updog?" you can feel clever and reply "Not much dog, what's up with you?".
Not much, how about you?
Nothing much how about you?
I honestly forgot that this was a series on quantum computing and not just an EH on the history of quantum mechanics
It's good to have your mind blown once in a while.
the reflective box example is wrong as photons do not have mass and e=mc^2 does not apply to them ,instead you have to use the equation e=pc. photon leaving the box would have no affect on its weight.
This was a good explanation.
Your voice for quoting a scientist reminds me of the tutorials in Catherine
you are putting my understanding of Quamtum to the ground
Einstein: "Imagine our double slit experiment from *THE FRIST EPISODE* ""
a battle between great minds is always interesting
the photon at 2:40 is so cute