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I wanna say that JRPGs still stereotype their male gay characters as opposed to their western counterparts. To me it seems masculinity and homosexuality are mutually exclusive in most of their media.
It looks like my comment was deleted, so I'll try again. Regarding your point at 14:50: It goes without saying that Sylvando has an intimate relationship with Dave, he is a large muscular man that wears a pink gimp suit at all times of the day, lives on Sylvando's ship, and obeys Sylvandos beck and call every time. Even if there are no scenes explicitly mentioning this the game sure does suggest it, and I think the story is better for it.
@@theredking2495 Yeah, from what I've seen of gay characters in western RPGS so far, they've definitely been improving on it here. Look at Dorian Pavus from Dragon Age Inquisition. The guy seems relatively manly yet he doesn't really hide his sexual orientation, and it's actually referenced by him in dialogue at one point in the game as being a driving wedge between him, his father, and his home nation. After all, being pressured to produce an heir to your station when you have no desire to engage in the institution of heterosexual family life is definitely cause for both drama and interesting character development.
While I get your frustration of making a Sylvando a "sexless eunuch" as you put it, as an ace who frequently comes off as stereotypically gay man, he's a character I personally really liked not having any sexual or romantic inclinations. Not having his interests and personality be tied to his sexuality or lack thereof is refreshing to see as it's something I've had to explain too many times.
100% agree. My other favorite thing about Sylvando is that he is loved by everyone and incredibly powerful and talented and brave while still being so flamboyant. We need more representation of men who embrace their femininity that doesn't reduce them to being a pansy.
Having lived in Japan, homosexuality is still treated as a joke to this day. Huge culture shock and lots of first-hand experience. Children and grown adults alike still stay "You're gay" to "taunt" one another. I still had to speak about homosexuality in hushed tones. It is still concealed from parents and at times even close friends. This reality is reflected in the almost exclusively silly, mockingly effeminate, and villainous characters in JRPGs, manga, anime, etc. That said, things are improving, albeit quite slowly. Pride events are in larger cities. Retro JRPGs will always be near to my heart, but mainstream manga and anime will always be too on the nose with their open mockery for my tastes. I love you David for your frank discussion of the topic, while keeping your love JRPGs intact. Discussions of representation aren't always as lovely, humorous, and reasonable as yours. You have many straight fans, which you already know. I am one :) Your love of games is focused and infectious. You don't get constantly bogged down in poor representation in the medium, which is but one aspect of JRPGs. (An aspect that needs serious improvement!) またね! ("ma-ta-ne" = See you again!) P.S. Your physique and steady gaming and exercise habits are inspirational! I am a fellow fitness and gaming fan as well.
I am living in Japan and I totally agree with you. Although not directly correlated with Lgbt, once I was talking with some japanese about anime and I mentioned that when I was kid I watched Sailor Moon many times. Their face expression was like I was person with problems 😅
Wonder when we'll see "Straight Pride" parades? To be fair, ALL parades are "gay"...lol. This is why these things are viewed negatively in places by some people, because people that are "different" are treated as "special people". We need to STOP having these parades and special events for SPECIFIC people, and just BE people. The more people are FORCEABLY accepted, the more they won't be. I don't mean to sound like I'm against gays or amy other type of person, cause I'm totally not. I just think we should stop pretending someone is special just because of something that should have ZERO relevance. Someone who can recite the first ten thousand decimals of pi is special. A guy who like the taste of man meat, isn't. Not for THAT specific reason anyway. Constant reminders of "Gays are special" just makes them seem the exact opposite. Can't we just be people?
Thanks for sharing your experiences! I've heard similar things and it's good to hear it's slowly changing. Some of my favorite representation is in some manga series. I remember even in the US, it wasn't that long ago that gay was used as an insult or a jab at friends. Hopefully it changes pretty fast for Japan too
I live in Japan and currently teach at Elementary and Junior High school, and yes things are definitely slowly changing in terms of education. Schools now have a seminar where someone will come and talk to students about LGBT issues to build awareness - and the younger generation always seems more open to it. I've never had a problem with any of my Japanese friends that I have told that I am gay. And where I have previously worked in Senior High and created lessons where LGBT topics need to be considered, many students, even in my rural town, would write things like "Love is love" and agree that gay marriage is a necessity for Japanese society - so I think the perception is definitely shifting. Just need to out to dinosaur politicians that are still in power holding the country back.
The best thing about Sylvando is that canonically he’s the best living swordsman having beaten Henrick once before. I do wish we got the payoff with his dad though. That could have been a massive breakthrough for the series and jrpgs as a whole
@@BigDaddyCola I think he saved alot of lives in truth and I dont think everyone in his Carnival was gay either..Hell i wish i could be a flamer hetro..I mean this goes into some deep science female and male birds will act crazy as fuck to lure snakes and other preds from their nest..Syl is actually very conservative and still follows Chivalry..Him and his group more or less painted big X's on their back and walked around in monster town.
@@BigDaddyCola EXACTLY. Sylvando's father knew his son was gay and he obviously accepts it or accepted it long ago. He cared far more about his son upholding the sworn duty of knighthood and his sons self professed mission to make the world smile.
You know, I've had a lot of conversations about Sylvando and other "gay" or "queer" characters with other gaymers recently. Although he is over the top flamboyant and can fall into the "flamboyant gay" stereotype, I feel like he challenges quite a few gender norms. He shows that he can be an over the top flamboyant (or femme) gay, but also be an incredibly strong and caring character. So the femme guy = weak trope is challenged in the game. And it further pushes back on masc4masc culture in the gay community. I also feel like we don't need Sylvando to have daddy issues. We've seen that over and over again all over in gay media. His father can be accepting of his sexual identity but be disappointed in him for not following in his footsteps to be a knight. Sylvando is following his own path, and because of that, he is accepted by everyone in the world of DQXI. And through his travels, he takes in people who are "lost" to be a part of his troupe. Almost similar to what House Mothers do in Ballroom Culture. I feel like it's a disservice to him to dismiss him as another stereotype. I feel like some of the characters in the video warrant further exploration.
Sylvando is fantastic but yeah he absolutely falls a little into the stereotype. The thing is, some gay people are like that. The problem really comes when all representation is nearly exclusively the stereotype. LGBTQ people come with all kinds of personalities obviously, they're human, so when nearly all of them are portrayed one way it sucks.
Also, I pretty much agree with everything you've said. Sylvando does go past the stereotype which is really nice. But his base still definitely falls into the stereotype hard.
Hard agree. He's the best, most caring and loving character, and without spoilers - lots of his story beats in act 2 made me cry a lot. Also (and I'm paraphrasing this from Tim Rogers) he's the only character that can use any type of weapon - including the stereotypical "manly" weapons like a sword, or the stereotypical "feminine" weapons like whips. Further, his skills let you determine whether he plays a supportive role or a powerful role, or some mix. In other words, he's very much built to defy gender norms in his core mechanical design, and that's rad. I also love that his introduction is him basically dunking on the prince for being homophobic and telling him off.
Aside from the great subject matter you’re showcasing, I really appreciate the deep cuts you researched for this. I haven’t heard of some of these games so it’s really cool to be introduced to them through this video.
As a Bisexual man I just wanna say that Kanji from Persona 4, for me, ended up being really positive bi representation. I know they use it as a joke a lot, but I feel like his whole arc of being confused about everything hit really close to home for me. The whole idea of "I like guys? I can't like guys because I like girls, right? Am I gay? No I must be straight because I definitely like girls." It wasn't until my late teens that I realized it was okay to like both and that I was bisexual. A lot of the things Kanji was going through were feelings that I had at 14 as well, and when he continues to show interest in Naoto knowing that she's a girl, but then we still get scenes where he blushes when he's too close to Yosuke. Stuff like that makes me really appreciate him as what I believe to be some of the only good bisexual male representation in gaming! But that's just me haha
Kanji yes yes yes. Also Yosuke. They cut out his romance, it even had english voice lines recorded. It's not a coincidence that he's the only male character you can invite into your room.
I'll point out that the Golden version of the game had Teddy, who is normally a horndog towards women that doesn't really understand many of the more offensive things that he's saying, set up a probably non-canon quiz show where the prize was revealed to be a smooch from himself, but had been making it clear throughout the entire quiz game that the male lead character was the person he considered to be the odds on favorite to win the entire time.
Two comentaries: Number 01: A major problem is that we don't have gay writers, so the script and caracterization for lgbt characters are made by straight people. Number 02: Argila from Digital Devil Saga 1 and 2. Heat even says that she is upset because of her girlfriend. And Argila is a awesome character who is not a walking stereotyped lesbian.
With Sylvando. It wasn't due to him not being a good knight, it was due to Sylvando wanting to bring happiness to the world in his own way. He was actually one of the best trained knights and it disappointed his father that he wasn't going to follow in his footsteps. His father thought Sylvando was throwing away a noble tradition. When they reconciled his father realized that Sylvando was pursing a very noble cause and embraced his son's lifestyle. Honestly I found the fact that they didn't make the conflict about Sylvando's sexuality much more inclusive. His father didn't care about that at all, he just wanted his son to take over the order of knights and follow tradition. I'm more impressed that they had Sylvando's father take in the dance troupe and perform with them. It's far more accepting and wholesome imho. I played that game many times over and really enjoyed it tbh
In terms of early representation, there is the Super Famicom’s Sailor Moon: Another Story. It was Japan only, so I have no idea of the story. But it does have Uranus/Neptune and no US censors to declare them cousins.
I've always thought the LGBT reps in persona 4 aren't real, they're more like bait and switch, Kanji is more worried about what people think about him liking cute things and things that are normally liked by women, you'd THINK he's gay but thats not the case. Same with Naoto you'd think they're trans but they only thought like that because they thought they wouldn't be accepted in the police force as a woman, Atlus/the persona devs don't know what being gay or trans is like
As a gay guy myself, I have to say I really enjoyed Sylvando as a character, mainly because I've known people who aren't that far off from him in real life, who have to deal with some real shit from within the gay community because the straights decided that that's how all gay people are. And I get how frustrating it is for gays who aren't like that to deal with those straight people assumptions, but I've seen far too many of them choose to take it out on the Sylvando-esque gays who are frankly just trying to live their best lives. Even if he is rather sterotypical, I feel like with Sylvando, you have a character who is yes, stereotypical, but also presented without much malice. Instead his great nobility of character and masterful skill with the blade prevent him from being a complete stereotype by defying negative stereotypes associated with effeminate gay men such as weakness and cowardice. In many ways he reminds me of another stereotypical gay character, Hollywood Monstrose from Mannequin. (Let's face it, Sylvando is basically "What if Hollywood Montrose but High Fantasy") Neither character is perfect, and while both are often very funny, they are never presented as objects of derision, but are rather both presented as simultaneously extraordinarily femme but also huge freakin' badasses. Also, frankly, while I know it is a real and present issue affecting lots of gay men, you cannot take a single step in the gay cultural landscape without immediately drowning in an ocean of gay media featuring men with daddy issues related to their homosexuality, so his dad being angry about knight related issues was a pleasant subversion of expectations and a breath of fresh air in my opinion. Honestly, I would have enjoyed it even more had Sylvando been convinced his dad was mad about his gayness, and have the dad tell him he had no problem with that, mainly because it would have made it so that they would openly acknowledge the fact that Sylvando is gay, and it would echo my own experience where some of my close relatives knew I was gay before I came out to them. I absolutely agree with you, though, that Sylvando is not an endgame goal, but a starting point for even better LGBT representation. But I also think the Sylvandos and Hollywood Monstroses of the world are an important tool for flamboyant and fem gays to reclaim their identity from the depths of Straight Stereotype Hell. But yeah, I really like this video and appreciate the effort you took to bring it to fruition. You did a great job discussing the good and bad of a subject that is clearly near and dear to your heart, so good on you.
Kanji from P4 is the best, the cast is extremely rude to him for zero reason. The guy deeply cares about everyone, friends, family, strangers and don't tolerate injustice. Just for some reason, the game can't decide to take him seriously or not. Also, I feel they missed a big chance of Yosuke coming to terms with his sexuality as well, as he's clearly very insecure, much more than Kanji. The protagonist on another hand, is super confident, for the most part, which is cool. Overall, I think there were lots of hits and misses and P4, I wish they took it further in P5, but meh :(
I guess I got a completely different take on Kanji. His social link imo was the best in the game. People treated him like crap because he carried himself like a punk type. He turned out to be a deep character and one of my faves here. Plus electric attacks > all lol
The only person actually mean to Kanji is Youske at the beginning, though it gets better. Though there was tons of missed potential for P4 like Youske coming to terms with being a closeted bisexual person/the cut romance and him directly apologizing to Kanji for his actions towards him. And the Golden Ending implies that Youske later came out, so that's good at least. Too bad P5 basically did nothing to improve on P4 in that aspect and actually made it far worse.
@@Yeaster Naoto is actually good repersentation, just not for trans people. She's made to be social commentary about sexism and toxic masculinity. She isn't trans and was never intended to be so. She doesn't suffer from neither gender dysphoria nor gender euphoria, she just wants to be a guy so that she could be better accepted and her arc is about being herself and fighting against sexism to change society. She's positive repersentation for femboys and tomboys who at one point struggled with their gender identity and questioned themselves, though I get why trans people, trans men in particular, would want her to be trans so badly because of the massive lack of repersentation in anything really. I've never once seen a trans male character in any media ever. When I did see a trans character (like that Rocko special a few years back or something) they're always trans women, not usually trans men. Only one I remember was the male professor from HGS, and that show sucked and the character in question was an obvious self insert.
Dragon Quest XI was the most fun I’ve had with an RPG since Final Fantasy VI, and a big reason was the characters and their relationships with each other. The best thing about Sylvando is how the other characters accept him for who he is, as an equal, with no reservations; sure, he might be a bit over the top with his flamboyance, but he’s also a skilled swordsman, an honorable warrior, and absolutely dedicated to the party’s mission to save the world and make everyone happy. They all love him as a person, and I personally found him to be the best and deepest character.
Mother 2 (EarthBound) has Tony, who was confirmed by creator to be gay and has the hots for Jeff. It's not stated outright in the game, but I can forgive it since he's clearly closet.
Your channel has come so far these last twelve months. It's gotten a whole new lease of life. You rock. I hope 2022 gives you the confidence to experiment with even more content ideas.
A little off topic but I grew up in a Christian fundamentalist household so I actually had to "discover" that all people are in fact people, regardless of sexuality and beliefs. The one thing that really stands out in my journey to unbrainwash myself in my early teens in the 90s is clive barker novels. Not only are there gay characters but truly nonbinary ones represented at a time when that was rarely even mentioned in the Midwest. This is why representation is important. Without things like this I would be a completely different person today and would have never given much thought to what I was taught about how the world is. Awesome video man. Hope you have a good new year.
Similar for me, though I grew up (on my fathers side) with Islam and was basically told that being gay is the worst thing I could be (and now why I’m such an anti-theist). Had to discover a lot of this from games and other media as well. Probably still why I love escaping into video games so much.
I too grew up in a fundamentalist Christian household, so I had to hide the fact that I wanted to date both the boys and the girls at school and such. When I was young, books definitely helped me in finding out who I really was.
The quote that Sephiroth makes is actually a bible verse from Hosea 2:16 And it shall be at that day, saith the LORD, that thou shalt call me Ishi (husband); and shalt call me no more Baali (Lord). Sephiroth is very much rooted in the Kabbalah. I'm on act 3 of DQ 11 trying to make the new ultimate sword of light. LOVE THIS GAME (im 42 played DQ games since i was a little kid) it could still be better tho. Sylvando is very much a stereotype..I know a gay couple that have been with each other a while you have one being masculine and one being a fem (he's also a hairdresser and i mean really good to) Even tho hes very fem he is not a prissy botch he will put a worm on a hook loves to fish and aint afraid to get his hands dirty cleaning fish or wild game.
Sylvando was personally my favorite character in DQ11 and I loved just about everything about him. he was certainly an over-the-top effeminate gay man or an "Okama", but I never felt his depiction was negative. He was strong willed, proud of who he was and strove to bring joy to anyone and everyone around him and I felt that the expectation subversion of his relationship with his father was excellently handled. The fact that Sylv was gay didn't matter to Don Rodrigo, his expectation of his son was simply to be a great knight and it was clear he was proud of him for the arguably far more daunting challenge he set upon himself to be a "knight that brings smiles to the world". Wonderful character. I don't think the "Okama" stereotype in japan is nearly as negative in modern times as westernization once made it, though it can seem otherwise with how ridiculous some of the characters are... but most character stereotypes are overblown in japanese produced fiction to sometimes absurd degrees so its kind-of evened out. And because western cultures are finally starting to ease up on the religious and cultural demonization of homosexuality it is going to be reflected in just about any form of media that inevitably finds its way to them.
Being a straight man i love seeing real people in rpg that are “gay” i have gay friends and they are one of the realest people i have ever meet, they keep it a buck and arnt afraid to put u in check
Female sadists and male narcissists are very common villain types in japanese media, and I think these characters often come across as gay when they're not, or where it's ambiguous. A female sadist like Shirley in Trails, sexually assaulting another female character is a safer way to create fanservice. They wouldn't get away with it if a guy did it. Note that Shirley show sadistic tendencies in how she interacts with others as well. I don't think we know enough about Shirley to say that she's gay. With Angelica I think the hints are too many to deny it. Japan really loves their exaggerated archetypes though and their games are full of characters with extreme personalities. My interpretation is that Olivier is straight, he's just very effeminate and playful. I think he just wants to make Mueller and Joshua let loose, since they're both so serious, and it's a way to get Mueller off his case so that he can have more freedom. Offense is the best defense. I think his behavior around Joshua was key in Estelle starting to develop feelings for Joshua, and he probably intended to highlight to Estelle that Joshua was a catch. He probably felt bad for Joshua for his childhood and guilty over his father failing him. I played CS 1-2 first, and I think that enabled me to more easily read between the lines and see him how the writers had imagined him.
Excellent discussion here David. I think you hit all of the major ones. I do think Payne from X-2 might have been a gay-coded protagonist, but they were also sexless. The number of gay villains though really is off the charts. There are several I can think of that never got a mention here. I'm pretty surprised we didn't end up going into any of the other ways Japanese RPGs show non-binary men, sometimes as bartenders in drag with stubbly faces and thick make-up. I think Wazy from Trails from Zero is also gay-coded (or maybe bi,) and is at least as far as I've played, a reasonable representation. He does however have a teasing/promiscuous stereotype about him, but far toned down from Olivier's portrayal. In a lot of ways Japan is still 40 years behind the US in terms of gay acceptance. They seem to be making slow progress though, at least. Hopefully they get it in gear soon! :)
Hey Derek! There's just a metric ton of stuff that can included in this topic! I had over 25 pages of notes that I distilled down into a six page essay for this video. Most of my scripts are roughly three pages so I had to end it somewhere, but you bring up great points! :) I hope you're having a happy and healthy new year!
@@davidvinc I think I misspoke. I shouldn't have said I'm surprised it didn't come up because I'm not dissatisfied by its exclusion. I think what I meant to say is that it's just a whole other subject that could honestly be a video of it's own I'm sure. Since you've got so much material to draw from, maybe you should make a follow-up if this one does well? And thank you! Happy new year to you too! :D
I think my favorite was Asellus from SaGa Frontier; her relationship with White Rose was very subtle, but it was definitely there. Might be a little biased, though, since she's my spirit animal; her life was eerily similar to my own.
I've noticed that Western RPG's have a better track record by comparison of representing LGBT characters and portraying them as well.. People rather than just their sexuality and JRPG's still have a long way to go. It seemed like the US localisation teams were paranoid and afraid of pissing of the pearl clutching religious right and them having a bitch fit over anything that isn't straight, moral and white, Especially during the 90's and 2000's. It's a bit of a bloody shame that JRPG's still portray them as either villains, perverts, predators, asexual or just a punchline. It's seems like Japan and Korea has a two faced relationship with the LGBT+ community and are still behind on the times in that regard.
This was a very interesting video! I don't know if you know it, but there is actually a gay canon couple in the game "13 Sentinels Aegis Rim" (it's kind of a mix of genres but it's also a jrpg so I think it's worth mentioning). One of them is playable and is a serious, straight-laced, kind of dorky Japanese Imperial Youth soldier and isn't your "stereotypical camp guy" at all, the other one is a bit of a sassy femboy who crosses on occasion to hide his identity for story reasons. It even has a bit of an arc where the former tries to come to terms that he is attracted to a guy while the latter just embraced his attraction and kind of waits for the other to come around. It's not always perfect but it's actually one of the best romantic storylines in that game in my opinion! This is probably more bi-presentation than a straight gay one, but in the game "Zanki Zero" you can essentially hook up everyone with everyone in your cast and there are "aftermath"-scenes for all possible straight, gay and lesbian combinations and from the scenes I have seen all the possible relationships are treated quite normally.
Great video. My gaydar went off with Ike and Soren of the Fire Emblem series. Ike has a deep “friendship” with Soren and at the end of the game the two go off together to find new “adventures”. The thought of the strong muscle Ike and the twinky tactical Soren was just too damn good to not be cannon in my head.
Great video as always David! Regarding Persona 5, I find it so annoying/disgusting that in the same game that the only gay characters act as predators we are supposed to be fine with the sexualization of the female classmates. Especially Ann, as well as the inappropriate relationship that can be formed with your teacher. I understand it’s a video game and outlandish things can happen, but I feel like it’s a conversation worth having.
So funnily enough, I never really perceived Flea as gay per se, or even nonbinary or trans. I think he was just someone who was gender nonconforming and totally ok with that. We need more unapologetically gender nonconforming characters in media. The idea that clothes or hair are gendered is ridiculous, and we need to send out the message that people can wear whatever they like and express themselves however they want.
I recommend checking out Digimon Cybersleuth 2, as the main character's best friend is gay and I thought it wasn't bad representation at all compared to the atrocities that Falcom does with the trails series.
My main problem with gay representation in Japan y that is almost always used as fanservice and doesn't feel genuine. Women are almost always sexualized, so lesbians = hot. But JRPGs are targeted to men, so men can't be sexual. They are friends. Very close friends. Or crazy bad people. Think Akechi from Persona 5 or Richard from Tales of Graces.
The first Fire Emblem to hit USA shores actually has an interesting localization decision regarding this that you may have heard about. The character, "Lucius" is said to be a man, because their class is, "Priest." They have a very overt romance with the mercenary Raven. In the original JP, they were a woman, but were changed to a man in the USA to not offend Catholics, without having their supports or romances altered. In a similar vein in Fire Emblem Path of Radiance, the character Soren was originally a woman for most of development, but changed to a guy before release. That same thing happened in FFXIII with Fang, but inverted, obviously. As far as the whole villain thing goes, I believe that ties into an earlier era of fiction like theater or cinema. Rules setup for them were that heroes couldn't be portrayed with "problematic" moralities or something like that. The result was writers using the villains as a mouthpiece for nuance, often times making them gay because those were the only characters allowed to be gay, and so it carried into the modern era after becoming a trope. But this also why so many heroes are just flat mouthpieces for concepts like justice or charity. I'd also posit that gays in JRPGs are usually flamboyant, because perhaps the writers themselves haven't got a lot of openly gay friends and aren't gay themselves. So their only experience with LGBT is stereotypes, and they're writing what they know. I'm not trying to excuse them, but not all cultures across the world are as good to LGBT people as the west. I guess the only other thing I have to add, is that I think it will become more open and pronounced in the future. Already in FFXIV. a J-MMORPG, they have made changes to allow male characters to wear female clothing. As a result, a vast amount of players choose to dress male characters in dresses, high heels, fishnets, and skimpy lady's underwear. Of course, player choice isn't exactly developer choice, even if it influences it, but it's a clear sign to me that things are looking up for LGBT in future JRPGs. Though it does also open up the can of worms that is gay fetishization, where straight women get turned on by gay characters, in the same vein as straight men who get turned on by lesbians. On the same topic, but probably less noticeable, what about gay side characters in JRPGs? I played a lot of RPGs growing up, and have a fair amount of memories of side characters or NPCs with lines about being gay. The one that comes to mind most readily is the Fabul stripper/dancer that looks like a lady from behind, but is given the male kung fu fighter sprite when Cecil asks them to dance. There are many others, but my comment's gone on too long now. Have a great day, David!
You missed Sigurd Harcourt from Xenogears! He's one of my absolute favorites - not a villain, not a stereotype, BOTH a man of color both in appearance and in setting where he's one of the oppressed people, and gay-coded. Even if he is just a supporting character/NPC. Also, there's lots of subtext in the game with other characters (the entire Lacan/Krelian/Sophia love triangle, some bits of dialogue between other characters that can be read in variant ways)- there's a reason it's known for being the gayest comphet game ever once you look past Fei and Elly haha.
@@reyntime1950 The reason I've heard it's impossible is basically the IP/business equivalent of a bad divorce (which is, if you think about it on a meta level, almost ironically hilarious) where the original creators and their company, Monolith, own some, but Square Enix still also owns some and won't let go of a known profit driver. Unfortunately, this results in nothing but action figure models to make money for Squeenix, and combine that with the original creators moving on, well, that would be near impossible. And personally, I would hate to see it get the "Marvelization" or "Disneyification" say some of the FF games have gotten with remasters/remakes (no permadeaths, writing to demographic rather than expecting demographic to get it and learn if they don't, trying to balance out sides so everyone can like both sides and buy merch themed on them etc) because something like Elly's mom not being REALLY dead-dead but coming back later from The Power of Hope or Solaris being "the good guys just from a different way at what they thought was good" would make me ragevomit because it would feel like (and be) a sellout. At the same time I would also hate to see its worst parts *not* somehow fixed out of some edgy devotion to "originality" in remixes and remasters (the places the translation did actually get things wrong or outright censor, places where corners were cut due to cost or not knowing what we do today or to make fake difficulty, the comphet and ship railroading to the degree of making Elly an empty misogynist wish fulfillment vessel the second Fei likes her and they build a relationship, the way most women are portrayed to the point where shipping m/m just makes more sense because the dudes seem to be way more into each other and the Most Interesting Woman is also a genocidal psychopath who is herself under the control of a male AI, THE ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE TAKE ON DISSOCIATIVE IDENTITY DISORDER FOR FEI) Personally I would like to see any remakes or remasters actually be a group effort calling on writers of diverse origins and perspectives with experience in sci-fi writing with some knowledge of the property, or at the very least bring in sensitivity editors to rework Fei and the mess it made of DID without just doing the modern copout a lot of things would and being "it was just magical possession!" No, fix it. Make him have legit DID and run with how that would actually play out in the scenario of a world of no therapists because the Space Nazis don't believe in therapy for their cattle, but without demonizing people with DID or making fusion make all his problems go away etc.
in short, tl:dr comment but I would be very harsh on remakes because XG was one of those works of media that actually wielded edge very, very well on occasion and very badly on others - to see all of its edges, all of its challenging or problematic or "let this sit with you" points softened into a "predictable hopeful profitable pap media property" would be enraging, but so would seeing what's actually just a result of bad research or bad writing stay. Remaking it would be like restoring an old house and striking a balance - on the one hand, turning it into a McMansion would be an outrage and an insult, on the other, so would be leaving the lead paint, bad wiring, and missing stairs because they were there to begin with.
While it's a western RPG and not a J-RPG Dorian from Dragon Age Inquisition is one of my favorites in terms of gay characters in games. I love badass oldschool sorcerers in general and his backstory is one of the best well written in my opinion. It never felt ham fisted or forced in like in other media and was just really well done. You have the option to romance him and either way he's just an awesome ally. 👍
Dorian is one my favorite characters. A cool design, hilarious dialogue , that whole thing with Bull 😆 But, Japan is trying. I thought the remake with Catherine was interesting with Rin's addition to the dating game.
I love Dorian and iron bull so much,both are handsome have good design and i never felt that they were gay just for being,both have their own fears,things they like and etc
Dorian was a great character but I gotta disagree I think LGBT representation was a little forced in inquisition. Not so much Dorian but what about the trans quanari? Some of the bio ware writers have openly stated that they actively promote personal politics in games and it was pretty obvious in inquisition in ways that didn't really fit in with the story or lore. I love dragon age btw no issue with representation I personally just find it to be immersion breaking to the story when the writers just dump representation into the story without proper build up
@@melzasguitar6177 i totally disagree with you,you Will never think that iron bull is bissexual or pansexual without becoming his friend and tease him,i never felt forced because it's totally optional not in your face,and since when is it that talking about LGBT means that we are talking about politics?lmao LGBT are normal people and deserve representation just like straight people
I’m not gay, but I felt the fact that Sylvando’s dad not being put off by the fact that Sylvando was gay, and it being something else entirely; heartwarming. We all suspected that it was because he was gay, but when you (and even seems like Sylvando himself) realize the real reason his dad’s relationship with him was rocky, it really made me like his dad as opposed to thinking he was a homophobic asshole. It warmed my heart as it seemed his dad supported his son’s lifestyle in the end
Forgot the gay dudes in Persona 5 got changed to drag queens in Persona 5 Royal. I found it funny how I would have this discussion with people defending the gay dudes saying, "It's funny." When that scene was universally panned by the fandom. IT got funnier when people cried about censorship in Royal....when the people saying this never played the game.
Great video, as always with your channel! There’s a character in the .hack//GU games named Endrance that I feel is an overall positive representation, he’s not a villain, not played for laughs, or as a walking stereotype. Definitely one of my favorite characters in that series.
If you like non-Japanese RPGs, Borderlands has TONS of gay, lesbian and bisexual characters. They even had a DLC for Borderlands 3 centered around a wedding between Sir Hammerlock, who talks and dresses like an old-timey British hunter, and his fiancee Wainwright Jacobs, the scion to a major arms company who is old-timey Southern as hell. Also, two of the NPCs, Mad Moxxi and Tiny Tina, are both known for being bisexual, though Tiny Tina wasn't mentioned as being interested in guys until Borderlands 3. Also, Athena and Springs are shown in Tales from the Borderlands as being in a relationship.
I'm a sucker for Argilla and Jinana in the Digital Devil Saga duology. The only explicit claim they have to having romantic feelings for each other is in the Quantum Devil Saga light novels, but it's still bizarrely sweet to have two girls care for each other, fight to save their teams, and also be cannibals XD
Surprised FFV's Farris is missing. Although their preferences aren't explicitly stated they would fall under transgender. When the party finds out the baddass pirate captain is technically female they're pretty accepting and Faris' crew are also very accepting because Faris is such a good captain (and they new all along but never made a fuss). Sephiroth's strong gay vibes in the remake really feels like fan service. The fangirl part of me squeed but the other part of me that wants a good plot was posting concerns. Never got gay vibes from Ursula. Always thought she was a past lover of King Triton.
Regarding the Tales series, I feel like a good example would be Yuri from Tales of Vesperia who’s implied to be bi and in love with Flynn. Not only is the opening confirmed to be about them but Yuri’s Japanese voice actor, Toriumi Kousuke also supports them as a couple and even went off script during 2014’s Tales of Festival to declare I love you to Flynn. He would also shut down the possibility of Yuri and Estelle being a couple whenever someone brought it up, saying that Yuri only sees her as a sister.
You should play the nier replicant. But honestly you could miss the fact that two of the three have some sort of LGBT/intersex stuff going on. I sure did the first time I played it, so I guess if it's that easy to miss maybe it wouldn't be your cup of tea either.
How did you feel about Sorey and Mikleo in Tales of Zestiria? I felt they were quite positive and neither of them were over the top. Mind you it was never explicitly said in game, but it was heavily implied and the devs confirmed it. Still though, I felt they were good representation which was surprising considering most Tales games went out of their way to mock gay people.
Off topic but related I think. As a black man that loves RPGs I've had a similar experience. Any male minority would be portrayed as a literal subhuman or violent ex: Rico and Hammer from xenogears. Deego from rogue Galaxy. Barrett Etc. and Every female is aloof or aggressive sexpot s ex: Lilika again from rogue Galaxy. Or both ex: Fran ff12. Isabella DA2. The only good representative I can recall is Reddas. Just saying I empathize.
Honestly this video came into my TH-cam feed because I watch/ been subbed to David for a long time. I am a straight Christian man and don't mind any type of character as long as they are written and nowadays voice acted well. Unfortunately, Sylvando is the reason why I would never do a second playthrough of Dragon Quest 11 ever again. The float gameplay plus the ridicouls outfits and the fact that (after a certain portion of the game) it becomes forced gameplay really made me despise that entire portion. This is coming from someone who put over 100+ hours into 100% the game.
I'll disagree about Sylvando, I think it's honestly BETTER for gay representation that his problem with his father isn't about his homosexuality. If they did that it would just feel like his character is only about being gay, when Sylvando has a lot more to him than that. I think gay characters in games should just be treated as a normal character that just so happen to be gay and not as someone whose entire story revolves around being gay. I'd rather a gay character be considered just another person in the game rather than trying to make a big deal about their homosexuality, because that's acknowledging that their existence is more than just being gay (which is a problem that gay stereotypes have in media).
I hope we can get to a point where there's less and less "token LBGTQ"-feeling characters. There's some games I've played recently where it feels like the writers went back afterword with, "Oh, we have to make one of these characters LBGTQ". Not all games, but enough to feel like a trend. That said, I am happy to see LGBTQ+ getting more good-faith representation. It's about damn time. I just hope writers continue making it feel more natural & organic. I don't care about the orientation. Even as a hetero male, if Lufia 2's Maxim and Selene were two males, or two females, or MtF & Male, or whatever, I'd still enjoy the hell out of it. It was a good romance and intertwined well with the main plot. If there's going to be sexuality & romance, I don't care about the details of the genders & orientations. I just want it to be important to the story or not be in there at all. I hope developers can try it out.
I will never comprehend why in mangas gays are well -represented whereas in jrpgs, lgbtq+ representation is just an afterthought. Take for example Emil from Nier. There was only one scene where the game implied that he is gay. Fans wouldn’t even have known his true feelings for brother Nier hadn’t Yoko Taro confirmed it in an interview !!!
I'm glad you finally made this video! It's a definitely an important topic, and LGBT issues have been a hot button topic in Japan for a few years now, and there have been some Japanese games, like A.I. The Somnium Files, that treat LGBT people with respect and dignity in recent years, which is good to see and gives me hope that my favorite genre can catch up to the world around it. As for my personal journey, I had the realization that I was pansexual only a few years ago, and most of my friends are LGBT as well. And being more aware of issues that the community faces now and has faced in the past (as a kid in the 90s and early 00s who thought I was straight, I was just oblivious back then) going to back to some old games and shows has been... kinda uncomfortable
Joachim... Everyday normal average person... 🤣 Broooo. He is insane, but that's why I love him! He is more humourous than other characters, but he is a Valentine which are arguably the most fleshed out characters in the series, excluding Yuri. And Makoto didn't turn out evil in Enchanted Arms. He had to play the game to get an opportunity to destroy the oppression and tyrany of the Queen of Ice. If anything, he did more than Atsuma. Great coverage though, I love these older gen games and honestly forgot how well written the inclusion of gay charcters were. I have to admit Pierre and Gerard the Cornelia costume vendors from SH2 will always be my favourite. SH3 is where it got disrespectful for me. Much love from a straight guy!
I wish Cold Steel would've dropped the whole dating bonding thing and had the characters get together with each other. Not just all wait on stupid ass Rean to have any real development! I always thought Machias and Jusis would make a good gay couple. I also think Laura dating Fie or even maybe Eliot would be way more interesting. But no all the female characters are for Rean and the male characters got basically crap character development because they couldn't really date Rean. They kind of patched up the male characters in the 4th game giving them some might be girlfriends in the last moment, but that game could have been so much better if they dropped the stupid dating crap!
@@ninototo1 Yeah, it just does not work well with the multi game thing. I think bonding event should stay, but I also don't think they should all have to involve the main character. Kinda like Tales of skits where all the characters develop together with each other.
It's really disgusting how you can ship Rean with his freaking sister and his underaged students, including Altina who is only 14 and clearly emotionally stunted, but there are zero gay options. Gaius and Rean would be a cute couple, and they actually have some chemistry. (Elliot as well, but he's such a boring character.)
Sylvando is one of my favorite characters in any RPG. His humorous side belies how strong and humble he is. He makes leveling up a cinch, has the almighty Oomph spell and Hustle Dance. I throw a knife and shield on him and he's a defensive powerhouse. Throughout the story he did have a way to uplift bad situation in a way that seemed natural.
For a great retrospective series on this for TV and film I recommend Matt baume's video essays. The one about gay villains obviously is a nice companion piece to this vid. There is one line I believe I can paraphrase here: you turn every LGBT character evil and then wonder why we root for the villains?! (Ursula, Kefka, and baby Jane to name a few!)
Hey David sorry it took me a sec to get a chance to watch this. I found this really interesting even as a straight fan. I'd love to look into disabled representation on jrpgs myself but I can't really think of any outright more allegories tbh
I love Sylvando! He was a stereotype for sure, but he also was kind-hearted, brave and super strong. Also, in the French translation, the problem with his dad is indeed his sexuality (and implied lack of manliness because of it, and how he couldn't represent the Knights), and it was super refreshing to see such a subject in the game, so I can understand how disappointing it was in English.
15:05 I actually liked that, making his main conflict about being a knight give him some variety to his character instead of everything revolving about him being gay. I would have liked to see him doing more knight stuff in the game, He looked really cool in gallopolis when he was teaching the prince about being a knight.
davidvinc you are my favorite vrpg youtuber i love your videos. i really appreciate the time and effort you put into playing rpg's and making content many thanks and have a happy new year
As a straight man, I really don't think too much about gay inclusion in games. But now that I think on it, I have to agree that it's annoying when a gay character is added as comic relief/not serious. Gays are just people, man. Gay it up haha. I hope that doesn't come off as insensitive. I'm not good at articulating my thoughts. I think what I mean to say is that jrpgs have such a diverse range of settings, music, mechanics, etc so why not characters? For instance, Sylvando in DQ XI is the bomb. Excellent, honorable man. Selfless, and was a knight at one point. Yeah he's super flamboyant, but also a character to look up to.
From what I heard from browsing the comment section on this video, I think the main reason why gays are represented so badly in jrpgs is because to summarize it briefly, Japan is extremely intolerant towards LGBTQ people as a whole, which causes them to either be cast as creepy and/or flamboyant villains or as comedic caricatures if they are playable. That said, and while David did mention Fire Emblem having good gay representation, it's definitely a little bit mixed when talking about Fates, and I can think of 3 different characters from that game that are gay (or perhaps more accurately, bisexual), with those being: Niles, Soliel, and Rhajat. Between the 3, Rhajat is the one who's the least obvious, as she only shows her gay side with Corrin, being the only gay S-support for players that choose a female character, and even then, it has more to do with her obsession with her than anything regarding her actually sexuality (which is explored a in a bit more detail than with Tharja from Awakening). Then we get to Soliel, who, funnily enough, like Rhajat, is a second generation unit, and the fanbase is VERY confused as to rather she's gay, straight, or bisexual, given that her only S-support options are with male characters, while only the extremely effeminate Forrest is treated as being a romantic option for her (besides with Corrin, that is), although this is mainly due to her support conversations being changed in America for some reason, and this is without even touching on her oftentimes uncomfortable supports with the female characters in the party (with the one real exception to this rule being with Sophie, as far as I can tell). And finally there's Niles, of whom while he may be one of the more complex and well-written characters overall, this unfortunately does NOT extend to his representation as a bisexual man, as he's very perverted and flirtatious with male and female characters alike and is constantly spewing innuendos in his dialog in many of his supports, partly because he actually seems to like making people feel uncomfortable; although I will say that him being bisexual feels like it's kinda sorta out of left field, and it's really not explored all that well, if at all
@@matthewkuscienko4616 I'm a huge FE fan. And I feel like Fates has awful gay representation. The series as a whole has some decently good examples, but I feel like all of the possibly gay characters in Fates come off as creeps. Fates characters are my least favorite in the series though, so I might be biased.
Honestly, Makoto (played it on the 360) and Sylvando were the only ones that came to mind when I saw the video title. I'm glad there have been at least a few more over the years.
I noticed that Elder Scrolls online has a few LGBT NPCs especially in Morrowind. I am a straight man and have noticed the over the top behaviors in most RPGs but ES online does it well I think just kinda having it be like a female NPC mentions her wife or a male NPC will talk about how his husband died in the attack.
Appreciate this video and your channel, David! Over the course of my DQ11 playthrough, I had a lot of feelings about Sylvando's characterization but landed on it being a net positive for gay representation especially during the second and third acts of the game. I agree this could have been a opportunity to do a story about him being gay, but I guess I was thankful he never turned into an excuse for a bunch of "gay panic" nonsense that still seems to be prevalent in Japanese developed games. It also helps he one of the best party members in the game.
Love the video David, a note on Persona 5 though; How do feel about Lala Escargot, the drag queen bar tender you get to hangout with when doing Ohya's Confidant? Personally, she was my favorite part of that confidant story line. Chilln at the bar with her. She was a riot (maybe with a bit of a cliché chain smoking middle age woman voice)
Yeah, I feel like she should be more of the standard for the representation of gay people in Persona 5 than the two men that kidnap Ryuji are, since she's in the game a good amount and they're only in a single scene.
As a gay guy who loves JRPGs, I always love seeing videos like this! Thank you for making it! One thing that bothers me as a trope in the genre is the "red-blooded male protagonist" where it's assumed that every man wants to see women naked. See: every damn game with a hot spring scene. I finished Tales of Arise not too long ago and it felt super jarring when Dohalim who, up to this point hadn't been explicitly queer coded, but also had never participated in the hetero banter of the rest of the party, provides the means for the guys to peep on the women in hot spring. While on the subject of the Tales series, I'm surprised you didn't mention Cumore from Vesperia. The dude has long, lilac hair, dresses in pink and purple, wears lipstick and eyeshadow, and has a cutout on his chest in the shape of a heart. He's also a cruel, cowardly, 2 faced villain who dies without even getting a boss fight. There's also the issue that not all queer relationships are considered equally. Fire emblem 3 houses had some of the best opportunities for queer relationships...if you were a woman where you had 5 options. In the base game, hope you like Lindhardt because otherwise your only other two S-supports (aka the character your avatar will marry in all other instances in the series) are with taken, explicitly hetero men who you don't even get to have a relationship with. In the DLC at least they made Yuri an option to (kind of) level the playing field. What shocks me (and a lot of other people on the internet) is that Claude isn't romanceable if you're a man. He constantly makes references to being an outsider (and while he has a different reason for it, I think most queer people have felt this way because of their queerness at some point) and invites Byleth to dance at the ball scene regardless of the chosen gender. Plus they didn't have any compunctions about making a house leader a potential gay romance option because Eldelgard is romanceable as a woman. (Also just throwing it out there that there are exclusively hetero characters but there's never been an exclusively homosexual romance option) All this to say that, while I love the genre of games, it's disappointing how consistently there's a lack of positive queer representation.
My favorite part in the entire 7th Dragon series is in a side quest in 7th Dragon III Code VFD, is when Sakurai a male ISDF soldier is sending love letters to Juliettia (who is bisexual)because he looks like Sakurai's dead boyfriend. The best character in all four games is relegated to a single side quest. 😭
Ike is definitely gay, especially after Radiant Dawn. If you just have PoR it really seems the game was trying to pair up Ike and Elincia especially with the ending, implying Ike was straight. Then RD happened and the game explicitly stated that Ike "hated the life of a noble" and revoked his nobility leaving Elincia and becoming a mercenary again with his old war buds. Elincia also has dialogue implying that she and Ike were once in a relationship but it "didn't work out" because "Ike wasn't happy living in the castle with me." Then Ike's only two paired endings are with men, Ranulf and Soren, and both are implied to be romantic. Finally, there is the hallarious and memorable line of "Ike, father of Sothe's children." So yeah, Ike is probably gay. Not to mention the other LGBT characters in Smash Bros like Byleth (who's bisexual) and Sephiroth. (who's probably gay)
Yeah, another one that stands out is Elincia, it mentions at the end of Radiant Dawn, that Lucia followed her wherever she went, and that their love was said to be “closer than even most blood sisters”. Ike is definitely gay, and Elincia is almost certainly a lesbian. I’ll also throw in Ranulf, even if it’s not as explicit as Ike and Soren, it’s mentioned he had romantic interest in Ike in the RD memorial books.
I’ve always had to basically turn my brain off when it came to LGBT representation in JRPGs. I was “that one” young player who always played and identified with the female characters.
@CodeBreaker NO. As another gay men who tended to sway more towards female characters in video games, that's only because so many of the gay characters that did happen to be in games, I didn't always relate to and it's because like the video went into, back in the day a lot of the gay characters were designed to be jokes and were hardly ever taken seriously. This is ignoring Fire Emblem which handled gay characters A LOT better in comparison to the average gay character we usually got. But no, it doesn't mean that there's something to it of a gay man relating to a female character. So please don't make it more complicated than it really is. You just happened to like the character and may have related to them on a personality/demeanor level and it's normal.
Oh, i just remember as you talking bout wild arms 2. Its not relative with the video, but i just recalled that the 2 friend of tim rhimeles are naming after prominent marvel character XD tony stark ( dressed in red and yellow and even with a adorn like the core of ironman suit) and scott summers ( in yellow and blue) Other than that i like very much your videos and love your voice.
Asellus's quest in SaGa Frontier probably still has the gayest overall cast of a mainstream JRPG; while some may consider some of these disputable, by my count it has one lesbian (Mesarthim), three bisexual women (Asellus, White Rose, and Gina) and two gay men (Ildon and Rastaban). Subaru Kujo from Sakura Wars V is non-binary.
I thought Kanji was the coolest character in persona 4 - and im not gay at all. I dont know even if he is gay, I lean on bisexual because he is still in love with Naoto when he found out she wasnt a boy but pretending to be one.
Love the fact that you are just so true to yourself, and how you always try to be informative in any of of the discussion videos (as well as just being so honest in your opinion). One thing I truly respect about you and the content you provide. This was a great breakdown of the history of LGBTQ+ character representation throughout the years. Thank you as always for being such a positive example for not only the LGBTQ community, but for gamers as well. I apologize if this doesn't come across the way I intended, but I hope it did. Personally I'm not a member of the community, but have nothing but love and respect for everyone who is, so I try to make sure I don't say something that can be interpreted wrongfully, as it not who I am. Keep up all the amazing work and I can't wait to see the next video.
As a bi woman and a HUGE trails fan, it breaks my heart how they represent queer characters. The best they've done is Wazy, and he's still oversexualized... or Maybelle and Lila, but subtext doesn't really count.
I remember something being said about Jeff from earthbound and his younger friend being a couple. If so that was such a positive image of a young couple at that time but I just wish they would have done something with it.
This is your best and most comprehensive video as of yet. So informative and yet filled with clear emotion, that we as gays tend to hold to ourselves, but I felt the anger and genuine joy at parts. Keep it up. If I had money I'd give you some brother 😂😂😂 (but we young, in covid times and I haven't had a job in over a year due to covid. Even tho I used to manage a whole ass shop and have a master's degree. Woo should have been a fucking builder.)
Once again, congratulations, this is an excellent video! By the way, it would be really interesting if someone did the same thing with "non-white" characters in JRPGs.
I love that you are talking about this topic. I would like to say though, eith makoto that wasn't the impression i got. I've played enchanted arms a lot and when he disappeared. Everytime he came back, it was to help the party, he wasnt evil from what i remember. I was also under the impression that he disappeared because he realized he wasnt strong enough to protect toya and wanted to become stronger. Edit: also i have always wanted a really good gay love story in a jrpg and it has never happened. I want a gay main character with a love story!
Great video as always, David! Sylvando had the most heart out of the dragon quest 11 cast, and if you say you didn't love sylvando then you're not human. My favorite representation and the first one I can remember in gaming was the bandit Bandigger (SP?) from thousand arms...a legendary rare game for the ps1 that was one of the first games to ever have dating Sim elements. Ok, so you actually mentioned Bandigger. That's crazy! Nobody else I've ever spoken to has played that game! You can't even find reliable information about the character online! Grab your umbrella baby! BANDIGGER SPIN!
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I wanna say that JRPGs still stereotype their male gay characters as opposed to their western counterparts. To me it seems masculinity and homosexuality are mutually exclusive in most of their media.
Would you also cover minority’s in a video like this?
I would also like to ask you a question but would be easier if I could email you if you don’t mind
It looks like my comment was deleted, so I'll try again. Regarding your point at 14:50:
It goes without saying that Sylvando has an intimate relationship with Dave, he is a large muscular man that wears a pink gimp suit at all times of the day, lives on Sylvando's ship, and obeys Sylvandos beck and call every time. Even if there are no scenes explicitly mentioning this the game sure does suggest it, and I think the story is better for it.
@@theredking2495 Yeah, from what I've seen of gay characters in western RPGS so far, they've definitely been improving on it here. Look at Dorian Pavus from Dragon Age Inquisition. The guy seems relatively manly yet he doesn't really hide his sexual orientation, and it's actually referenced by him in dialogue at one point in the game as being a driving wedge between him, his father, and his home nation. After all, being pressured to produce an heir to your station when you have no desire to engage in the institution of heterosexual family life is definitely cause for both drama and interesting character development.
JRPG characters really woke up and took "be gay, do crimes" a bit too literally
Not literally enough if you ask me
While I get your frustration of making a Sylvando a "sexless eunuch" as you put it, as an ace who frequently comes off as stereotypically gay man, he's a character I personally really liked not having any sexual or romantic inclinations. Not having his interests and personality be tied to his sexuality or lack thereof is refreshing to see as it's something I've had to explain too many times.
100% agree. My other favorite thing about Sylvando is that he is loved by everyone and incredibly powerful and talented and brave while still being so flamboyant. We need more representation of men who embrace their femininity that doesn't reduce them to being a pansy.
Hones question: can Yusuke Kitagawa (Persona 5) be considered as an asexual character?
Having lived in Japan, homosexuality is still treated as a joke to this day. Huge culture shock and lots of first-hand experience. Children and grown adults alike still stay "You're gay" to "taunt" one another. I still had to speak about homosexuality in hushed tones. It is still concealed from parents and at times even close friends. This reality is reflected in the almost exclusively silly, mockingly effeminate, and villainous characters in JRPGs, manga, anime, etc.
That said, things are improving, albeit quite slowly. Pride events are in larger cities. Retro JRPGs will always be near to my heart, but mainstream manga and anime will always be too on the nose with their open mockery for my tastes.
I love you David for your frank discussion of the topic, while keeping your love JRPGs intact. Discussions of representation aren't always as lovely, humorous, and reasonable as yours. You have many straight fans, which you already know. I am one :) Your love of games is focused and infectious. You don't get constantly bogged down in poor representation in the medium, which is but one aspect of JRPGs. (An aspect that needs serious improvement!)
またね! ("ma-ta-ne" = See you again!)
P.S. Your physique and steady gaming and exercise habits are inspirational! I am a fellow fitness and gaming fan as well.
yes my love
I am living in Japan and I totally agree with you. Although not directly correlated with Lgbt, once I was talking with some japanese about anime and I mentioned that when I was kid I watched Sailor Moon many times. Their face expression was like I was person with problems 😅
Wonder when we'll see "Straight Pride" parades? To be fair, ALL parades are "gay"...lol. This is why these things are viewed negatively in places by some people, because people that are "different" are treated as "special people". We need to STOP having these parades and special events for SPECIFIC people, and just BE people. The more people are FORCEABLY accepted, the more they won't be. I don't mean to sound like I'm against gays or amy other type of person, cause I'm totally not. I just think we should stop pretending someone is special just because of something that should have ZERO relevance. Someone who can recite the first ten thousand decimals of pi is special. A guy who like the taste of man meat, isn't. Not for THAT specific reason anyway. Constant reminders of "Gays are special" just makes them seem the exact opposite. Can't we just be people?
Thanks for sharing your experiences! I've heard similar things and it's good to hear it's slowly changing. Some of my favorite representation is in some manga series. I remember even in the US, it wasn't that long ago that gay was used as an insult or a jab at friends. Hopefully it changes pretty fast for Japan too
I live in Japan and currently teach at Elementary and Junior High school, and yes things are definitely slowly changing in terms of education. Schools now have a seminar where someone will come and talk to students about LGBT issues to build awareness - and the younger generation always seems more open to it. I've never had a problem with any of my Japanese friends that I have told that I am gay. And where I have previously worked in Senior High and created lessons where LGBT topics need to be considered, many students, even in my rural town, would write things like "Love is love" and agree that gay marriage is a necessity for Japanese society - so I think the perception is definitely shifting. Just need to out to dinosaur politicians that are still in power holding the country back.
The best thing about Sylvando is that canonically he’s the best living swordsman having beaten Henrick once before. I do wish we got the payoff with his dad though. That could have been a massive breakthrough for the series and jrpgs as a whole
Agreed! DQ11 is so enjoyable!
If anything it makes it better regarding his dad. Because it means his sexuality wasnt an issue.
@@BigDaddyCola I think he saved alot of lives in truth and I dont think everyone in his Carnival was gay either..Hell i wish i could be a flamer hetro..I mean this goes into some deep science female and male birds will act crazy as fuck to lure snakes and other preds from their nest..Syl is actually very conservative and still follows Chivalry..Him and his group more or less painted big X's on their back and walked around in monster town.
@@BigDaddyCola EXACTLY. Sylvando's father knew his son was gay and he obviously accepts it or accepted it long ago. He cared far more about his son upholding the sworn duty of knighthood and his sons self professed mission to make the world smile.
You forgot one extremely important set of gay characters: Every single silent protagonist where I entered "David" or "Dave" as the name
You know, I've had a lot of conversations about Sylvando and other "gay" or "queer" characters with other gaymers recently. Although he is over the top flamboyant and can fall into the "flamboyant gay" stereotype, I feel like he challenges quite a few gender norms. He shows that he can be an over the top flamboyant (or femme) gay, but also be an incredibly strong and caring character. So the femme guy = weak trope is challenged in the game. And it further pushes back on masc4masc culture in the gay community. I also feel like we don't need Sylvando to have daddy issues. We've seen that over and over again all over in gay media. His father can be accepting of his sexual identity but be disappointed in him for not following in his footsteps to be a knight. Sylvando is following his own path, and because of that, he is accepted by everyone in the world of DQXI. And through his travels, he takes in people who are "lost" to be a part of his troupe. Almost similar to what House Mothers do in Ballroom Culture. I feel like it's a disservice to him to dismiss him as another stereotype. I feel like some of the characters in the video warrant further exploration.
Sylvando is fantastic but yeah he absolutely falls a little into the stereotype. The thing is, some gay people are like that. The problem really comes when all representation is nearly exclusively the stereotype. LGBTQ people come with all kinds of personalities obviously, they're human, so when nearly all of them are portrayed one way it sucks.
Also, I pretty much agree with everything you've said. Sylvando does go past the stereotype which is really nice. But his base still definitely falls into the stereotype hard.
Hard agree. He's the best, most caring and loving character, and without spoilers - lots of his story beats in act 2 made me cry a lot. Also (and I'm paraphrasing this from Tim Rogers) he's the only character that can use any type of weapon - including the stereotypical "manly" weapons like a sword, or the stereotypical "feminine" weapons like whips. Further, his skills let you determine whether he plays a supportive role or a powerful role, or some mix. In other words, he's very much built to defy gender norms in his core mechanical design, and that's rad. I also love that his introduction is him basically dunking on the prince for being homophobic and telling him off.
Aside from the great subject matter you’re showcasing, I really appreciate the deep cuts you researched for this. I haven’t heard of some of these games so it’s really cool to be introduced to them through this video.
As a Bisexual man I just wanna say that Kanji from Persona 4, for me, ended up being really positive bi representation. I know they use it as a joke a lot, but I feel like his whole arc of being confused about everything hit really close to home for me. The whole idea of "I like guys? I can't like guys because I like girls, right? Am I gay? No I must be straight because I definitely like girls." It wasn't until my late teens that I realized it was okay to like both and that I was bisexual. A lot of the things Kanji was going through were feelings that I had at 14 as well, and when he continues to show interest in Naoto knowing that she's a girl, but then we still get scenes where he blushes when he's too close to Yosuke. Stuff like that makes me really appreciate him as what I believe to be some of the only good bisexual male representation in gaming! But that's just me haha
Kanji yes yes yes. Also Yosuke. They cut out his romance, it even had english voice lines recorded. It's not a coincidence that he's the only male character you can invite into your room.
@@Crocogator woah I didn't even know that!
I'll point out that the Golden version of the game had Teddy, who is normally a horndog towards women that doesn't really understand many of the more offensive things that he's saying, set up a probably non-canon quiz show where the prize was revealed to be a smooch from himself, but had been making it clear throughout the entire quiz game that the male lead character was the person he considered to be the odds on favorite to win the entire time.
@@Crocogator Yosuke isn't bi, he's gay.
@@patron7906 Well nah, since he says himself that he asked Yukiko out on a date before the protagonist showed up...
Two comentaries:
Number 01: A major problem is that we don't have gay writers, so the script and caracterization for lgbt characters are made by straight people.
Number 02: Argila from Digital Devil Saga 1 and 2. Heat even says that she is upset because of her girlfriend. And Argila is a awesome character who is not a walking stereotyped lesbian.
With Sylvando. It wasn't due to him not being a good knight, it was due to Sylvando wanting to bring happiness to the world in his own way. He was actually one of the best trained knights and it disappointed his father that he wasn't going to follow in his footsteps. His father thought Sylvando was throwing away a noble tradition. When they reconciled his father realized that Sylvando was pursing a very noble cause and embraced his son's lifestyle. Honestly I found the fact that they didn't make the conflict about Sylvando's sexuality much more inclusive. His father didn't care about that at all, he just wanted his son to take over the order of knights and follow tradition. I'm more impressed that they had Sylvando's father take in the dance troupe and perform with them. It's far more accepting and wholesome imho.
I played that game many times over and really enjoyed it tbh
In terms of early representation, there is the Super Famicom’s Sailor Moon: Another Story. It was Japan only, so I have no idea of the story. But it does have Uranus/Neptune and no US censors to declare them cousins.
I've always thought the LGBT reps in persona 4 aren't real, they're more like bait and switch, Kanji is more worried about what people think about him liking cute things and things that are normally liked by women, you'd THINK he's gay but thats not the case. Same with Naoto you'd think they're trans but they only thought like that because they thought they wouldn't be accepted in the police force as a woman, Atlus/the persona devs don't know what being gay or trans is like
As a gay guy myself, I have to say I really enjoyed Sylvando as a character, mainly because I've known people who aren't that far off from him in real life, who have to deal with some real shit from within the gay community because the straights decided that that's how all gay people are. And I get how frustrating it is for gays who aren't like that to deal with those straight people assumptions, but I've seen far too many of them choose to take it out on the Sylvando-esque gays who are frankly just trying to live their best lives. Even if he is rather sterotypical, I feel like with Sylvando, you have a character who is yes, stereotypical, but also presented without much malice. Instead his great nobility of character and masterful skill with the blade prevent him from being a complete stereotype by defying negative stereotypes associated with effeminate gay men such as weakness and cowardice. In many ways he reminds me of another stereotypical gay character, Hollywood Monstrose from Mannequin. (Let's face it, Sylvando is basically "What if Hollywood Montrose but High Fantasy") Neither character is perfect, and while both are often very funny, they are never presented as objects of derision, but are rather both presented as simultaneously extraordinarily femme but also huge freakin' badasses. Also, frankly, while I know it is a real and present issue affecting lots of gay men, you cannot take a single step in the gay cultural landscape without immediately drowning in an ocean of gay media featuring men with daddy issues related to their homosexuality, so his dad being angry about knight related issues was a pleasant subversion of expectations and a breath of fresh air in my opinion. Honestly, I would have enjoyed it even more had Sylvando been convinced his dad was mad about his gayness, and have the dad tell him he had no problem with that, mainly because it would have made it so that they would openly acknowledge the fact that Sylvando is gay, and it would echo my own experience where some of my close relatives knew I was gay before I came out to them.
I absolutely agree with you, though, that Sylvando is not an endgame goal, but a starting point for even better LGBT representation. But I also think the Sylvandos and Hollywood Monstroses of the world are an important tool for flamboyant and fem gays to reclaim their identity from the depths of Straight Stereotype Hell. But yeah, I really like this video and appreciate the effort you took to bring it to fruition. You did a great job discussing the good and bad of a subject that is clearly near and dear to your heart, so good on you.
well said!! Sylvando is such a good edition!! He’s a symbol saying that is not bad!!! Gay is valuable!!
Kanji from P4 is the best, the cast is extremely rude to him for zero reason. The guy deeply cares about everyone, friends, family, strangers and don't tolerate injustice. Just for some reason, the game can't decide to take him seriously or not.
Also, I feel they missed a big chance of Yosuke coming to terms with his sexuality as well, as he's clearly very insecure, much more than Kanji. The protagonist on another hand, is super confident, for the most part, which is cool. Overall, I think there were lots of hits and misses and P4, I wish they took it further in P5, but meh :(
I heard Yosuke was supposed to be a romance option
That's why I'm kind of bitter about Naoto. She would've been cooler as a he
I guess I got a completely different take on Kanji. His social link imo was the best in the game. People treated him like crap because he carried himself like a punk type. He turned out to be a deep character and one of my faves here. Plus electric attacks > all lol
The only person actually mean to Kanji is Youske at the beginning, though it gets better. Though there was tons of missed potential for P4 like Youske coming to terms with being a closeted bisexual person/the cut romance and him directly apologizing to Kanji for his actions towards him. And the Golden Ending implies that Youske later came out, so that's good at least. Too bad P5 basically did nothing to improve on P4 in that aspect and actually made it far worse.
@@Yeaster Naoto is actually good repersentation, just not for trans people. She's made to be social commentary about sexism and toxic masculinity. She isn't trans and was never intended to be so. She doesn't suffer from neither gender dysphoria nor gender euphoria, she just wants to be a guy so that she could be better accepted and her arc is about being herself and fighting against sexism to change society. She's positive repersentation for femboys and tomboys who at one point struggled with their gender identity and questioned themselves, though I get why trans people, trans men in particular, would want her to be trans so badly because of the massive lack of repersentation in anything really. I've never once seen a trans male character in any media ever. When I did see a trans character (like that Rocko special a few years back or something) they're always trans women, not usually trans men. Only one I remember was the male professor from HGS, and that show sucked and the character in question was an obvious self insert.
Dragon Quest XI was the most fun I’ve had with an RPG since Final Fantasy VI, and a big reason was the characters and their relationships with each other. The best thing about Sylvando is how the other characters accept him for who he is, as an equal, with no reservations; sure, he might be a bit over the top with his flamboyance, but he’s also a skilled swordsman, an honorable warrior, and absolutely dedicated to the party’s mission to save the world and make everyone happy. They all love him as a person, and I personally found him to be the best and deepest character.
Mother 2 (EarthBound) has Tony, who was confirmed by creator to be gay and has the hots for Jeff. It's not stated outright in the game, but I can forgive it since he's clearly closet.
Your channel has come so far these last twelve months. It's gotten a whole new lease of life. You rock. I hope 2022 gives you the confidence to experiment with even more content ideas.
A little off topic but I grew up in a Christian fundamentalist household so I actually had to "discover" that all people are in fact people, regardless of sexuality and beliefs. The one thing that really stands out in my journey to unbrainwash myself in my early teens in the 90s is clive barker novels. Not only are there gay characters but truly nonbinary ones represented at a time when that was rarely even mentioned in the Midwest. This is why representation is important. Without things like this I would be a completely different person today and would have never given much thought to what I was taught about how the world is. Awesome video man. Hope you have a good new year.
Love Barkers work, Imajica is one my favourite novels, weaveworld and Cabal are nearly as good as well.
Similar for me, though I grew up (on my fathers side) with Islam and was basically told that being gay is the worst thing I could be (and now why I’m such an anti-theist). Had to discover a lot of this from games and other media as well. Probably still why I love escaping into video games so much.
@@Vereid much respect man.
I too grew up in a fundamentalist Christian household, so I had to hide the fact that I wanted to date both the boys and the girls at school and such. When I was young, books definitely helped me in finding out who I really was.
You forgot Ovan and Endrance from the .Hack G.U. Series
The quote that Sephiroth makes is actually a bible verse from Hosea 2:16 And it shall be at that day, saith the LORD, that thou shalt call me Ishi (husband); and shalt call me no more Baali (Lord). Sephiroth is very much rooted in the Kabbalah. I'm on act 3 of DQ 11 trying to make the new ultimate sword of light. LOVE THIS GAME (im 42 played DQ games since i was a little kid) it could still be better tho. Sylvando is very much a stereotype..I know a gay couple that have been with each other a while you have one being masculine and one being a fem (he's also a hairdresser and i mean really good to) Even tho hes very fem he is not a prissy botch he will put a worm on a hook loves to fish and aint afraid to get his hands dirty cleaning fish or wild game.
Sylvando was personally my favorite character in DQ11 and I loved just about everything about him. he was certainly an over-the-top effeminate gay man or an "Okama", but I never felt his depiction was negative. He was strong willed, proud of who he was and strove to bring joy to anyone and everyone around him and I felt that the expectation subversion of his relationship with his father was excellently handled. The fact that Sylv was gay didn't matter to Don Rodrigo, his expectation of his son was simply to be a great knight and it was clear he was proud of him for the arguably far more daunting challenge he set upon himself to be a "knight that brings smiles to the world". Wonderful character.
I don't think the "Okama" stereotype in japan is nearly as negative in modern times as westernization once made it, though it can seem otherwise with how ridiculous some of the characters are... but most character stereotypes are overblown in japanese produced fiction to sometimes absurd degrees so its kind-of evened out. And because western cultures are finally starting to ease up on the religious and cultural demonization of homosexuality it is going to be reflected in just about any form of media that inevitably finds its way to them.
You can't blame Sephiroth for falling for Cloud...he looks prettier than the actual female characters in the game.
Being a straight man i love seeing real people in rpg that are “gay” i have gay friends and they are one of the realest people i have ever meet, they keep it a buck and arnt afraid to put u in check
Female sadists and male narcissists are very common villain types in japanese media, and I think these characters often come across as gay when they're not, or where it's ambiguous. A female sadist like Shirley in Trails, sexually assaulting another female character is a safer way to create fanservice. They wouldn't get away with it if a guy did it. Note that Shirley show sadistic tendencies in how she interacts with others as well. I don't think we know enough about Shirley to say that she's gay. With Angelica I think the hints are too many to deny it.
Japan really loves their exaggerated archetypes though and their games are full of characters with extreme personalities.
My interpretation is that Olivier is straight, he's just very effeminate and playful. I think he just wants to make Mueller and Joshua let loose, since they're both so serious, and it's a way to get Mueller off his case so that he can have more freedom. Offense is the best defense. I think his behavior around Joshua was key in Estelle starting to develop feelings for Joshua, and he probably intended to highlight to Estelle that Joshua was a catch. He probably felt bad for Joshua for his childhood and guilty over his father failing him.
I played CS 1-2 first, and I think that enabled me to more easily read between the lines and see him how the writers had imagined him.
Excellent discussion here David.
I think you hit all of the major ones. I do think Payne from X-2 might have been a gay-coded protagonist, but they were also sexless. The number of gay villains though really is off the charts. There are several I can think of that never got a mention here. I'm pretty surprised we didn't end up going into any of the other ways Japanese RPGs show non-binary men, sometimes as bartenders in drag with stubbly faces and thick make-up. I think Wazy from Trails from Zero is also gay-coded (or maybe bi,) and is at least as far as I've played, a reasonable representation. He does however have a teasing/promiscuous stereotype about him, but far toned down from Olivier's portrayal.
In a lot of ways Japan is still 40 years behind the US in terms of gay acceptance. They seem to be making slow progress though, at least. Hopefully they get it in gear soon! :)
Hey Derek! There's just a metric ton of stuff that can included in this topic! I had over 25 pages of notes that I distilled down into a six page essay for this video. Most of my scripts are roughly three pages so I had to end it somewhere, but you bring up great points! :) I hope you're having a happy and healthy new year!
@@davidvinc I think I misspoke. I shouldn't have said I'm surprised it didn't come up because I'm not dissatisfied by its exclusion. I think what I meant to say is that it's just a whole other subject that could honestly be a video of it's own I'm sure. Since you've got so much material to draw from, maybe you should make a follow-up if this one does well? And thank you! Happy new year to you too! :D
My two fav RPG TH-camrs in one thread! I love you both. Such in-depth content.
I think my favorite was Asellus from SaGa Frontier; her relationship with White Rose was very subtle, but it was definitely there. Might be a little biased, though, since she's my spirit animal; her life was eerily similar to my own.
I've noticed that Western RPG's have a better track record by comparison of representing LGBT characters and portraying them as well.. People rather than just their sexuality and JRPG's still have a long way to go.
It seemed like the US localisation teams were paranoid and afraid of pissing of the pearl clutching religious right and them having a bitch fit over anything that isn't straight, moral and white, Especially during the 90's and 2000's.
It's a bit of a bloody shame that JRPG's still portray them as either villains, perverts, predators, asexual or just a punchline.
It's seems like Japan and Korea has a two faced relationship with the LGBT+ community and are still behind on the times in that regard.
I agree. IF they are going to remove sexuality and relationships they can’t cherry pick gay relationships and leave straight ones. Just be consistent
Western RPG's are definitely better in this category. And a lot of them even give the player the option to decide for their character.
Hell in Fallout New Vegas two of your companions (Arcade Gannon and Veronica) are part of the LGBT.
I completely agree. The JRPG are just mirroring the japanese society which is still quite slow in accepting the LGBT community ☹️
@@BowmansWorld wow that sounds very pathetic of you
This was a very interesting video! I don't know if you know it, but there is actually a gay canon couple in the game "13 Sentinels Aegis Rim" (it's kind of a mix of genres but it's also a jrpg so I think it's worth mentioning). One of them is playable and is a serious, straight-laced, kind of dorky Japanese Imperial Youth soldier and isn't your "stereotypical camp guy" at all, the other one is a bit of a sassy femboy who crosses on occasion to hide his identity for story reasons. It even has a bit of an arc where the former tries to come to terms that he is attracted to a guy while the latter just embraced his attraction and kind of waits for the other to come around. It's not always perfect but it's actually one of the best romantic storylines in that game in my opinion!
This is probably more bi-presentation than a straight gay one, but in the game "Zanki Zero" you can essentially hook up everyone with everyone in your cast and there are "aftermath"-scenes for all possible straight, gay and lesbian combinations and from the scenes I have seen all the possible relationships are treated quite normally.
Love, love, love this. It's been a long holiday period full of stress, and this was just what I needed. David, you are my saving grace at times.
Great video. My gaydar went off with Ike and Soren of the Fire Emblem series. Ike has a deep “friendship” with Soren and at the end of the game the two go off together to find new “adventures”. The thought of the strong muscle Ike and the twinky tactical Soren was just too damn good to not be cannon in my head.
Same here. I loved their relationship.
To be fair about Persona 5, there was also Lala Escargot who’s an extremely positive example of a drag queen/trans woman (it’s ambiguous which she is)
Great video as always David! Regarding Persona 5, I find it so annoying/disgusting that in the same game that the only gay characters act as predators we are supposed to be fine with the sexualization of the female classmates. Especially Ann, as well as the inappropriate relationship that can be formed with your teacher. I understand it’s a video game and outlandish things can happen, but I feel like it’s a conversation worth having.
Morgana is a simp, change my mind.
So funnily enough, I never really perceived Flea as gay per se, or even nonbinary or trans. I think he was just someone who was gender nonconforming and totally ok with that. We need more unapologetically gender nonconforming characters in media. The idea that clothes or hair are gendered is ridiculous, and we need to send out the message that people can wear whatever they like and express themselves however they want.
I recommend checking out Digimon Cybersleuth 2, as the main character's best friend is gay and I thought it wasn't bad representation at all compared to the atrocities that Falcom does with the trails series.
P3P Femmc route 😏
I would love to hear your opinions on Elk and Endrance from the .Hack// series.
Anybody remember that you can date Barett in FFVII at the golden saucer?
It's more on the comical side than a good gay representation but it's here.
Just wanna say that I'm very happy that you're tackling this theme david! Hell yea!
My main problem with gay representation in Japan y that is almost always used as fanservice and doesn't feel genuine.
Women are almost always sexualized, so lesbians = hot.
But JRPGs are targeted to men, so men can't be sexual. They are friends. Very close friends. Or crazy bad people. Think Akechi from Persona 5 or Richard from Tales of Graces.
The first Fire Emblem to hit USA shores actually has an interesting localization decision regarding this that you may have heard about. The character, "Lucius" is said to be a man, because their class is, "Priest." They have a very overt romance with the mercenary Raven. In the original JP, they were a woman, but were changed to a man in the USA to not offend Catholics, without having their supports or romances altered. In a similar vein in Fire Emblem Path of Radiance, the character Soren was originally a woman for most of development, but changed to a guy before release. That same thing happened in FFXIII with Fang, but inverted, obviously.
As far as the whole villain thing goes, I believe that ties into an earlier era of fiction like theater or cinema. Rules setup for them were that heroes couldn't be portrayed with "problematic" moralities or something like that. The result was writers using the villains as a mouthpiece for nuance, often times making them gay because those were the only characters allowed to be gay, and so it carried into the modern era after becoming a trope. But this also why so many heroes are just flat mouthpieces for concepts like justice or charity.
I'd also posit that gays in JRPGs are usually flamboyant, because perhaps the writers themselves haven't got a lot of openly gay friends and aren't gay themselves. So their only experience with LGBT is stereotypes, and they're writing what they know. I'm not trying to excuse them, but not all cultures across the world are as good to LGBT people as the west.
I guess the only other thing I have to add, is that I think it will become more open and pronounced in the future. Already in FFXIV. a J-MMORPG, they have made changes to allow male characters to wear female clothing. As a result, a vast amount of players choose to dress male characters in dresses, high heels, fishnets, and skimpy lady's underwear. Of course, player choice isn't exactly developer choice, even if it influences it, but it's a clear sign to me that things are looking up for LGBT in future JRPGs. Though it does also open up the can of worms that is gay fetishization, where straight women get turned on by gay characters, in the same vein as straight men who get turned on by lesbians.
On the same topic, but probably less noticeable, what about gay side characters in JRPGs? I played a lot of RPGs growing up, and have a fair amount of memories of side characters or NPCs with lines about being gay. The one that comes to mind most readily is the Fabul stripper/dancer that looks like a lady from behind, but is given the male kung fu fighter sprite when Cecil asks them to dance. There are many others, but my comment's gone on too long now. Have a great day, David!
You missed Sigurd Harcourt from Xenogears! He's one of my absolute favorites - not a villain, not a stereotype, BOTH a man of color both in appearance and in setting where he's one of the oppressed people, and gay-coded. Even if he is just a supporting character/NPC. Also, there's lots of subtext in the game with other characters (the entire Lacan/Krelian/Sophia love triangle, some bits of dialogue between other characters that can be read in variant ways)- there's a reason it's known for being the gayest comphet game ever once you look past Fei and Elly haha.
Whoever owns the rights to xenogears... PLEEEEEASE give us original re-release, remaster & remakes.
@@reyntime1950 The reason I've heard it's impossible is basically the IP/business equivalent of a bad divorce (which is, if you think about it on a meta level, almost ironically hilarious) where the original creators and their company, Monolith, own some, but Square Enix still also owns some and won't let go of a known profit driver. Unfortunately, this results in nothing but action figure models to make money for Squeenix, and combine that with the original creators moving on, well, that would be near impossible.
And personally, I would hate to see it get the "Marvelization" or "Disneyification" say some of the FF games have gotten with remasters/remakes (no permadeaths, writing to demographic rather than expecting demographic to get it and learn if they don't, trying to balance out sides so everyone can like both sides and buy merch themed on them etc) because something like Elly's mom not being REALLY dead-dead but coming back later from The Power of Hope or Solaris being "the good guys just from a different way at what they thought was good" would make me ragevomit because it would feel like (and be) a sellout.
At the same time I would also hate to see its worst parts *not* somehow fixed out of some edgy devotion to "originality" in remixes and remasters (the places the translation did actually get things wrong or outright censor, places where corners were cut due to cost or not knowing what we do today or to make fake difficulty, the comphet and ship railroading to the degree of making Elly an empty misogynist wish fulfillment vessel the second Fei likes her and they build a relationship, the way most women are portrayed to the point where shipping m/m just makes more sense because the dudes seem to be way more into each other and the Most Interesting Woman is also a genocidal psychopath who is herself under the control of a male AI, THE ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE TAKE ON DISSOCIATIVE IDENTITY DISORDER FOR FEI)
Personally I would like to see any remakes or remasters actually be a group effort calling on writers of diverse origins and perspectives with experience in sci-fi writing with some knowledge of the property, or at the very least bring in sensitivity editors to rework Fei and the mess it made of DID without just doing the modern copout a lot of things would and being "it was just magical possession!" No, fix it. Make him have legit DID and run with how that would actually play out in the scenario of a world of no therapists because the Space Nazis don't believe in therapy for their cattle, but without demonizing people with DID or making fusion make all his problems go away etc.
in short, tl:dr comment but I would be very harsh on remakes because XG was one of those works of media that actually wielded edge very, very well on occasion and very badly on others - to see all of its edges, all of its challenging or problematic or "let this sit with you" points softened into a "predictable hopeful profitable pap media property" would be enraging, but so would seeing what's actually just a result of bad research or bad writing stay.
Remaking it would be like restoring an old house and striking a balance - on the one hand, turning it into a McMansion would be an outrage and an insult, on the other, so would be leaving the lead paint, bad wiring, and missing stairs because they were there to begin with.
My favorite Gaymer is at it again.
I really appreciate you highlighting this. Representation matters.
While it's a western RPG and not a J-RPG Dorian from Dragon Age Inquisition is one of my favorites in terms of gay characters in games. I love badass oldschool sorcerers in general and his backstory is one of the best well written in my opinion.
It never felt ham fisted or forced in like in other media and was just really well done. You have the option to romance him and either way he's just an awesome ally. 👍
Dorian is one my favorite characters. A cool design, hilarious dialogue , that whole thing with Bull 😆
But, Japan is trying. I thought the remake with Catherine was interesting with Rin's addition to the dating game.
Bioware didn't seem afraid to approach LGBT characters in their games. I remember romancing Alistair and it didn't feel like it was shoehorned in
I love Dorian and iron bull so much,both are handsome have good design and i never felt that they were gay just for being,both have their own fears,things they like and etc
Dorian was a great character but I gotta disagree I think LGBT representation was a little forced in inquisition. Not so much Dorian but what about the trans quanari? Some of the bio ware writers have openly stated that they actively promote personal politics in games and it was pretty obvious in inquisition in ways that didn't really fit in with the story or lore. I love dragon age btw no issue with representation I personally just find it to be immersion breaking to the story when the writers just dump representation into the story without proper build up
@@melzasguitar6177 i totally disagree with you,you Will never think that iron bull is bissexual or pansexual without becoming his friend and tease him,i never felt forced because it's totally optional not in your face,and since when is it that talking about LGBT means that we are talking about politics?lmao LGBT are normal people and deserve representation just like straight people
I’m not gay, but I felt the fact that Sylvando’s dad not being put off by the fact that Sylvando was gay, and it being something else entirely; heartwarming. We all suspected that it was because he was gay, but when you (and even seems like Sylvando himself) realize the real reason his dad’s relationship with him was rocky, it really made me like his dad as opposed to thinking he was a homophobic asshole. It warmed my heart as it seemed his dad supported his son’s lifestyle in the end
As a bisexual man, I cannot more highly recommend you check out the history of queer representation in media on the channel Matt Baume!
Forgot the gay dudes in Persona 5 got changed to drag queens in Persona 5 Royal. I found it funny how I would have this discussion with people defending the gay dudes saying, "It's funny." When that scene was universally panned by the fandom. IT got funnier when people cried about censorship in Royal....when the people saying this never played the game.
Great video, as always with your channel! There’s a character in the .hack//GU games named Endrance that I feel is an overall positive representation, he’s not a villain, not played for laughs, or as a walking stereotype. Definitely one of my favorite characters in that series.
If you like non-Japanese RPGs, Borderlands has TONS of gay, lesbian and bisexual characters. They even had a DLC for Borderlands 3 centered around a wedding between Sir Hammerlock, who talks and dresses like an old-timey British hunter, and his fiancee Wainwright Jacobs, the scion to a major arms company who is old-timey Southern as hell. Also, two of the NPCs, Mad Moxxi and Tiny Tina, are both known for being bisexual, though Tiny Tina wasn't mentioned as being interested in guys until Borderlands 3. Also, Athena and Springs are shown in Tales from the Borderlands as being in a relationship.
I'm a sucker for Argilla and Jinana in the Digital Devil Saga duology. The only explicit claim they have to having romantic feelings for each other is in the Quantum Devil Saga light novels, but it's still bizarrely sweet to have two girls care for each other, fight to save their teams, and also be cannibals XD
I'm pretty sure Tony from Earthbound was gay, so maybe Jeff too? I always got that vibe.
Don't worry, David. You're the only gay in RPG's that I need!
Surprised FFV's Farris is missing. Although their preferences aren't explicitly stated they would fall under transgender. When the party finds out the baddass pirate captain is technically female they're pretty accepting and Faris' crew are also very accepting because Faris is such a good captain (and they new all along but never made a fuss).
Sephiroth's strong gay vibes in the remake really feels like fan service. The fangirl part of me squeed but the other part of me that wants a good plot was posting concerns.
Never got gay vibes from Ursula. Always thought she was a past lover of King Triton.
Regarding the Tales series, I feel like a good example would be Yuri from Tales of Vesperia who’s implied to be bi and in love with Flynn. Not only is the opening confirmed to be about them but Yuri’s Japanese voice actor, Toriumi Kousuke also supports them as a couple and even went off script during 2014’s Tales of Festival to declare I love you to Flynn. He would also shut down the possibility of Yuri and Estelle being a couple whenever someone brought it up, saying that Yuri only sees her as a sister.
You should play the nier replicant. But honestly you could miss the fact that two of the three have some sort of LGBT/intersex stuff going on. I sure did the first time I played it, so I guess if it's that easy to miss maybe it wouldn't be your cup of tea either.
How did you feel about Sorey and Mikleo in Tales of Zestiria? I felt they were quite positive and neither of them were over the top. Mind you it was never explicitly said in game, but it was heavily implied and the devs confirmed it. Still though, I felt they were good representation which was surprising considering most Tales games went out of their way to mock gay people.
oshere bones in puyo pop is a gay stereotype but a fun one lmao also fire emblem radiant dawn has a lesbian.
I’m so glad to have found your channel! This was an amazing video.
Off topic but related I think. As a black man that loves RPGs I've had a similar experience. Any male minority would be portrayed as a literal subhuman or violent ex: Rico and Hammer from xenogears. Deego from rogue Galaxy. Barrett Etc. and Every female is aloof or aggressive sexpot s ex: Lilika again from rogue Galaxy. Or both ex: Fran ff12. Isabella DA2. The only good representative I can recall is Reddas. Just saying I empathize.
Honestly this video came into my TH-cam feed because I watch/ been subbed to David for a long time. I am a straight Christian man and don't mind any type of character as long as they are written and nowadays voice acted well. Unfortunately, Sylvando is the reason why I would never do a second playthrough of Dragon Quest 11 ever again. The float gameplay plus the ridicouls outfits and the fact that (after a certain portion of the game) it becomes forced gameplay really made me despise that entire portion. This is coming from someone who put over 100+ hours into 100% the game.
I'll disagree about Sylvando, I think it's honestly BETTER for gay representation that his problem with his father isn't about his homosexuality. If they did that it would just feel like his character is only about being gay, when Sylvando has a lot more to him than that. I think gay characters in games should just be treated as a normal character that just so happen to be gay and not as someone whose entire story revolves around being gay. I'd rather a gay character be considered just another person in the game rather than trying to make a big deal about their homosexuality, because that's acknowledging that their existence is more than just being gay (which is a problem that gay stereotypes have in media).
I don't think Sephiroth even knows what his sexuality is tbh. Just look at how he was raised, I've honestly always seen him as asexual.
I hope we can get to a point where there's less and less "token LBGTQ"-feeling characters. There's some games I've played recently where it feels like the writers went back afterword with, "Oh, we have to make one of these characters LBGTQ". Not all games, but enough to feel like a trend.
That said, I am happy to see LGBTQ+ getting more good-faith representation. It's about damn time. I just hope writers continue making it feel more natural & organic.
I don't care about the orientation. Even as a hetero male, if Lufia 2's Maxim and Selene were two males, or two females, or MtF & Male, or whatever, I'd still enjoy the hell out of it. It was a good romance and intertwined well with the main plot. If there's going to be sexuality & romance, I don't care about the details of the genders & orientations. I just want it to be important to the story or not be in there at all. I hope developers can try it out.
In persona 3 portable, you can date Aigis and Elizabeth with the female protagonist
I will never comprehend why in mangas gays are well -represented whereas in jrpgs, lgbtq+ representation is just an afterthought. Take for example Emil from Nier. There was only one scene where the game implied that he is gay. Fans wouldn’t even have known his true feelings for brother Nier hadn’t Yoko Taro confirmed it in an interview !!!
In what mainstream manga are gays well represented?
I'm glad you finally made this video!
It's a definitely an important topic, and LGBT issues have been a hot button topic in Japan for a few years now, and there have been some Japanese games, like A.I. The Somnium Files, that treat LGBT people with respect and dignity in recent years, which is good to see and gives me hope that my favorite genre can catch up to the world around it.
As for my personal journey, I had the realization that I was pansexual only a few years ago, and most of my friends are LGBT as well. And being more aware of issues that the community faces now and has faced in the past (as a kid in the 90s and early 00s who thought I was straight, I was just oblivious back then) going to back to some old games and shows has been... kinda uncomfortable
Joachim... Everyday normal average person... 🤣 Broooo.
He is insane, but that's why I love him! He is more humourous than other characters, but he is a Valentine which are arguably the most fleshed out characters in the series, excluding Yuri.
And Makoto didn't turn out evil in Enchanted Arms. He had to play the game to get an opportunity to destroy the oppression and tyrany of the Queen of Ice. If anything, he did more than Atsuma.
Great coverage though, I love these older gen games and honestly forgot how well written the inclusion of gay charcters were. I have to admit Pierre and Gerard the Cornelia costume vendors from SH2 will always be my favourite. SH3 is where it got disrespectful for me.
Much love from a straight guy!
I wish Cold Steel would've dropped the whole dating bonding thing and had the characters get together with each other. Not just all wait on stupid ass Rean to have any real development! I always thought Machias and Jusis would make a good gay couple. I also think Laura dating Fie or even maybe Eliot would be way more interesting. But no all the female characters are for Rean and the male characters got basically crap character development because they couldn't really date Rean. They kind of patched up the male characters in the 4th game giving them some might be girlfriends in the last moment, but that game could have been so much better if they dropped the stupid dating crap!
Nah
Agreed. Especially since the dating part isn't even well done, since you can't import it from earlier games. Hope Kuro does it better.
@@ninototo1 Yeah, it just does not work well with the multi game thing. I think bonding event should stay, but I also don't think they should all have to involve the main character. Kinda like Tales of skits where all the characters develop together with each other.
It's really disgusting how you can ship Rean with his freaking sister and his underaged students, including Altina who is only 14 and clearly emotionally stunted, but there are zero gay options. Gaius and Rean would be a cute couple, and they actually have some chemistry. (Elliot as well, but he's such a boring character.)
@@ninototo1 kuro doesn't have romance options
Sylvando is one of my favorite characters in any RPG. His humorous side belies how strong and humble he is. He makes leveling up a cinch, has the almighty Oomph spell and Hustle Dance. I throw a knife and shield on him and he's a defensive powerhouse. Throughout the story he did have a way to uplift bad situation in a way that seemed natural.
For a great retrospective series on this for TV and film I recommend Matt baume's video essays. The one about gay villains obviously is a nice companion piece to this vid.
There is one line I believe I can paraphrase here: you turn every LGBT character evil and then wonder why we root for the villains?!
(Ursula, Kefka, and baby Jane to name a few!)
Hey David sorry it took me a sec to get a chance to watch this. I found this really interesting even as a straight fan. I'd love to look into disabled representation on jrpgs myself but I can't really think of any outright more allegories tbh
I love Sylvando! He was a stereotype for sure, but he also was kind-hearted, brave and super strong. Also, in the French translation, the problem with his dad is indeed his sexuality (and implied lack of manliness because of it, and how he couldn't represent the Knights), and it was super refreshing to see such a subject in the game, so I can understand how disappointing it was in English.
Great job putting this video out there David. I'm happy for you!
Thank you!
15:05 I actually liked that, making his main conflict about being a knight give him some variety to his character instead of everything revolving about him being gay. I would have liked to see him doing more knight stuff in the game, He looked really cool in gallopolis when he was teaching the prince about being a knight.
davidvinc you are my favorite vrpg youtuber i love your videos. i really appreciate the time and effort you put into playing rpg's and making content many thanks and have a happy new year
Great video, David!
Irritating that gay representation often comes down to villains, sexual perverts and/or comic relief.
As a straight man, I really don't think too much about gay inclusion in games. But now that I think on it, I have to agree that it's annoying when a gay character is added as comic relief/not serious. Gays are just people, man. Gay it up haha.
I hope that doesn't come off as insensitive. I'm not good at articulating my thoughts. I think what I mean to say is that jrpgs have such a diverse range of settings, music, mechanics, etc so why not characters?
For instance, Sylvando in DQ XI is the bomb. Excellent, honorable man. Selfless, and was a knight at one point. Yeah he's super flamboyant, but also a character to look up to.
From what I heard from browsing the comment section on this video, I think the main reason why gays are represented so badly in jrpgs is because to summarize it briefly, Japan is extremely intolerant towards LGBTQ people as a whole, which causes them to either be cast as creepy and/or flamboyant villains or as comedic caricatures if they are playable. That said, and while David did mention Fire Emblem having good gay representation, it's definitely a little bit mixed when talking about Fates, and I can think of 3 different characters from that game that are gay (or perhaps more accurately, bisexual), with those being: Niles, Soliel, and Rhajat. Between the 3, Rhajat is the one who's the least obvious, as she only shows her gay side with Corrin, being the only gay S-support for players that choose a female character, and even then, it has more to do with her obsession with her than anything regarding her actually sexuality (which is explored a in a bit more detail than with Tharja from Awakening). Then we get to Soliel, who, funnily enough, like Rhajat, is a second generation unit, and the fanbase is VERY confused as to rather she's gay, straight, or bisexual, given that her only S-support options are with male characters, while only the extremely effeminate Forrest is treated as being a romantic option for her (besides with Corrin, that is), although this is mainly due to her support conversations being changed in America for some reason, and this is without even touching on her oftentimes uncomfortable supports with the female characters in the party (with the one real exception to this rule being with Sophie, as far as I can tell). And finally there's Niles, of whom while he may be one of the more complex and well-written characters overall, this unfortunately does NOT extend to his representation as a bisexual man, as he's very perverted and flirtatious with male and female characters alike and is constantly spewing innuendos in his dialog in many of his supports, partly because he actually seems to like making people feel uncomfortable; although I will say that him being bisexual feels like it's kinda sorta out of left field, and it's really not explored all that well, if at all
@@matthewkuscienko4616 I'm a huge FE fan. And I feel like Fates has awful gay representation. The series as a whole has some decently good examples, but I feel like all of the possibly gay characters in Fates come off as creeps. Fates characters are my least favorite in the series though, so I might be biased.
This is great! I forgot about the Phantasy Star 2 pianist.
As a gay guy I always loved Zhang He and Kuja growing up
Honestly, Makoto (played it on the 360) and Sylvando were the only ones that came to mind when I saw the video title. I'm glad there have been at least a few more over the years.
I noticed that Elder Scrolls online has a few LGBT NPCs especially in Morrowind. I am a straight man and have noticed the over the top behaviors in most RPGs but ES online does it well I think just kinda having it be like a female NPC mentions her wife or a male NPC will talk about how his husband died in the attack.
Well, going by Skyrim, I don't know if there's anyone who isn't at least bi in the Elder Scrolls.
@@lnsflare1 fair
Appreciate this video and your channel, David! Over the course of my DQ11 playthrough, I had a lot of feelings about Sylvando's characterization but landed on it being a net positive for gay representation especially during the second and third acts of the game. I agree this could have been a opportunity to do a story about him being gay, but I guess I was thankful he never turned into an excuse for a bunch of "gay panic" nonsense that still seems to be prevalent in Japanese developed games. It also helps he one of the best party members in the game.
Love the video David, a note on Persona 5 though; How do feel about Lala Escargot, the drag queen bar tender you get to hangout with when doing Ohya's Confidant? Personally, she was my favorite part of that confidant story line. Chilln at the bar with her. She was a riot (maybe with a bit of a cliché chain smoking middle age woman voice)
Yeah, I feel like she should be more of the standard for the representation of gay people in Persona 5 than the two men that kidnap Ryuji are, since she's in the game a good amount and they're only in a single scene.
As a gay guy who loves JRPGs, I always love seeing videos like this! Thank you for making it!
One thing that bothers me as a trope in the genre is the "red-blooded male protagonist" where it's assumed that every man wants to see women naked. See: every damn game with a hot spring scene. I finished Tales of Arise not too long ago and it felt super jarring when Dohalim who, up to this point hadn't been explicitly queer coded, but also had never participated in the hetero banter of the rest of the party, provides the means for the guys to peep on the women in hot spring.
While on the subject of the Tales series, I'm surprised you didn't mention Cumore from Vesperia. The dude has long, lilac hair, dresses in pink and purple, wears lipstick and eyeshadow, and has a cutout on his chest in the shape of a heart. He's also a cruel, cowardly, 2 faced villain who dies without even getting a boss fight.
There's also the issue that not all queer relationships are considered equally. Fire emblem 3 houses had some of the best opportunities for queer relationships...if you were a woman where you had 5 options. In the base game, hope you like Lindhardt because otherwise your only other two S-supports (aka the character your avatar will marry in all other instances in the series) are with taken, explicitly hetero men who you don't even get to have a relationship with. In the DLC at least they made Yuri an option to (kind of) level the playing field. What shocks me (and a lot of other people on the internet) is that Claude isn't romanceable if you're a man. He constantly makes references to being an outsider (and while he has a different reason for it, I think most queer people have felt this way because of their queerness at some point) and invites Byleth to dance at the ball scene regardless of the chosen gender. Plus they didn't have any compunctions about making a house leader a potential gay romance option because Eldelgard is romanceable as a woman. (Also just throwing it out there that there are exclusively hetero characters but there's never been an exclusively homosexual romance option)
All this to say that, while I love the genre of games, it's disappointing how consistently there's a lack of positive queer representation.
My favorite part in the entire 7th Dragon series is in a side quest in 7th Dragon III Code VFD, is when Sakurai a male ISDF soldier is sending love letters to Juliettia (who is bisexual)because he looks like Sakurai's dead boyfriend. The best character in all four games is relegated to a single side quest. 😭
I feel an important addition is Ike from Fire Emblem. He's very heavily implied to be gay but he made it into smash being a main fighter.
Ike is definitely gay, especially after Radiant Dawn. If you just have PoR it really seems the game was trying to pair up Ike and Elincia especially with the ending, implying Ike was straight. Then RD happened and the game explicitly stated that Ike "hated the life of a noble" and revoked his nobility leaving Elincia and becoming a mercenary again with his old war buds. Elincia also has dialogue implying that she and Ike were once in a relationship but it "didn't work out" because "Ike wasn't happy living in the castle with me." Then Ike's only two paired endings are with men, Ranulf and Soren, and both are implied to be romantic. Finally, there is the hallarious and memorable line of "Ike, father of Sothe's children." So yeah, Ike is probably gay. Not to mention the other LGBT characters in Smash Bros like Byleth (who's bisexual) and Sephiroth. (who's probably gay)
Yeah, another one that stands out is Elincia, it mentions at the end of Radiant Dawn, that Lucia followed her wherever she went, and that their love was said to be “closer than even most blood sisters”.
Ike is definitely gay, and Elincia is almost certainly a lesbian. I’ll also throw in Ranulf, even if it’s not as explicit as Ike and Soren, it’s mentioned he had romantic interest in Ike in the RD memorial books.
I’ve always had to basically turn my brain off when it came to LGBT representation in JRPGs. I was “that one” young player who always played and identified with the female characters.
Same. That realization was a big part of my egg cracking.
@CodeBreaker I don't think it necessarily means anything on its own, but it certainly can mean something. Only you can answer those questions.
@CodeBreaker NO. As another gay men who tended to sway more towards female characters in video games, that's only because so many of the gay characters that did happen to be in games, I didn't always relate to and it's because like the video went into, back in the day a lot of the gay characters were designed to be jokes and were hardly ever taken seriously. This is ignoring Fire Emblem which handled gay characters A LOT better in comparison to the average gay character we usually got.
But no, it doesn't mean that there's something to it of a gay man relating to a female character. So please don't make it more complicated than it really is. You just happened to like the character and may have related to them on a personality/demeanor level and it's normal.
I'm sad cuz Chante from Ys9 was shown in the opening but not discussed and I love that guy
Ohmygod soon as you said freaking the dick was that good I cracked up laughing
I thought a few jokes would help bring some levity to an otherwise serious topic
Oh, i just remember as you talking bout wild arms 2. Its not relative with the video, but i just recalled that the 2 friend of tim rhimeles are naming after prominent marvel character XD tony stark ( dressed in red and yellow and even with a adorn like the core of ironman suit) and scott summers ( in yellow and blue)
Other than that i like very much your videos and love your voice.
Asellus's quest in SaGa Frontier probably still has the gayest overall cast of a mainstream JRPG; while some may consider some of these disputable, by my count it has one lesbian (Mesarthim), three bisexual women (Asellus, White Rose, and Gina) and two gay men (Ildon and Rastaban).
Subaru Kujo from Sakura Wars V is non-binary.
I thought Kanji was the coolest character in persona 4 - and im not gay at all. I dont know even if he is gay, I lean on bisexual because he is still in love with Naoto when he found out she wasnt a boy but pretending to be one.
I am super team Kanji
Love the fact that you are just so true to yourself, and how you always try to be informative in any of of the discussion videos (as well as just being so honest in your opinion). One thing I truly respect about you and the content you provide. This was a great breakdown of the history of LGBTQ+ character representation throughout the years. Thank you as always for being such a positive example for not only the LGBTQ community, but for gamers as well. I apologize if this doesn't come across the way I intended, but I hope it did. Personally I'm not a member of the community, but have nothing but love and respect for everyone who is, so I try to make sure I don't say something that can be interpreted wrongfully, as it not who I am. Keep up all the amazing work and I can't wait to see the next video.
As a bi woman and a HUGE trails fan, it breaks my heart how they represent queer characters. The best they've done is Wazy, and he's still oversexualized... or Maybelle and Lila, but subtext doesn't really count.
Agreed, I'm not even lgbtq but it bothers me too.
I remember something being said about Jeff from earthbound and his younger friend being a couple. If so that was such a positive image of a young couple at that time but I just wish they would have done something with it.
This is your best and most comprehensive video as of yet. So informative and yet filled with clear emotion, that we as gays tend to hold to ourselves, but I felt the anger and genuine joy at parts.
Keep it up. If I had money I'd give you some brother 😂😂😂 (but we young, in covid times and I haven't had a job in over a year due to covid. Even tho I used to manage a whole ass shop and have a master's degree. Woo should have been a fucking builder.)
Once again, congratulations, this is an excellent video! By the way, it would be really interesting if someone did the same thing with "non-white" characters in JRPGs.
I love that you are talking about this topic. I would like to say though, eith makoto that wasn't the impression i got. I've played enchanted arms a lot and when he disappeared. Everytime he came back, it was to help the party, he wasnt evil from what i remember. I was also under the impression that he disappeared because he realized he wasnt strong enough to protect toya and wanted to become stronger.
Edit: also i have always wanted a really good gay love story in a jrpg and it has never happened. I want a gay main character with a love story!
Sylvando is badass. He's extremely confident and can back up the talk.
Great video as always, David! Sylvando had the most heart out of the dragon quest 11 cast, and if you say you didn't love sylvando then you're not human. My favorite representation and the first one I can remember in gaming was the bandit Bandigger (SP?) from thousand arms...a legendary rare game for the ps1 that was one of the first games to ever have dating Sim elements. Ok, so you actually mentioned Bandigger. That's crazy! Nobody else I've ever spoken to has played that game! You can't even find reliable information about the character online! Grab your umbrella baby! BANDIGGER SPIN!
Thank you for this David. ❤🧡💛💚💙