@@Pedro285 Both Marko and Horner confirmed he burned his clutch and that's why he lost drive. Also, Horner said he just spun, not a word about a "power over-delivery". Regardless, on the onboard you can see Perez panics and goes full throttle on 3rd gear and (not sure if this is relevant) his steering wheel screen starts to blink whilst doing this.
@@DominicGreene72The stewards investigated it as a potential dangerous driving and found out that he was trying to do a spin move to get back and while doing so his clutch failed and so his full throttle did nothing.
Checo managing to spin his car and completely destroy his clutch by trying to start in 3rd gear in less than 10 seconds behind the safety car, including whatever the sprint was, has to be deserving of a -1/10. And for anyone who thinks it wasn’t entirely his fault, Horner said he spun and burned his clutch. No sign of mechanical issues before he caused his own mechanical DNF.
Yeah, like even if you can excuse the spin (if in fact it was the engine just overdelivering power, which in any case was probably Perez forgetting to change a setting under SC), it was still under safety car there was no need for him to rush off the track in 3rd gear (which was probably even more dangerous if anti-stall kicked in while he was still on the track)
Yeah it was actually a good race. I was waiting really boring one as this track has been last few years. We had so many good races this year. I cant wait for 2025.
Plus making overtakes like he has been doing it all year. Happy for him getting some acknowledgement. He is a very good driver, but he got shafted stake levels of shafting.
Max has more of an issue with George acting one way to the media and another behind the scenes. I don't think he's have as much of an issue if George said to the media the same things he said in the stewards room
There is now available Russell's in-car video from the qualifying incident. He manufactured the incident and then conspired with Garry Connelly to turn it into a penalty. Russell pretending to be a human being outside of the stewards' room was not the cause of Max Verstappen's ire. I look forward to Max making a point of humiliating George from now until George retires without ever getting a sniff at a title.
@@Olifantenstaart th-cam.com/video/BtEEzF4v02I/w-d-xo.html The relevant part starts at 1:21 Russell was told what to expect. Then he could see ahead of him clearly. Then he ran up to Verstappen and swerved to start his narrative with Garry Connelly.
In german commentary Ralf Schumacher did actually get angry when his co-commentator implied Lando Norris shouldnt have got such a harsh penalty. His take was that literally ever racing driver knows this rule and to disregard it puts everyone in danger.
If it was so dangerous, there was 4 or 5 laps to throw a VSC or full safety car. Instead, the officials decided not to. Either it was dangerous or it's not. The officials can't have it both ways.
@@rodbritton360 just because the race director should have thrown a VSC does not make Lando's lack of lifting any less dangerous. One does not erase the other.
@@rodbritton360 a double yellow is a double yellow, it doesn't matter if it should've been a vsc or sc, the fact is it was a double yellow and he failed to "slow down and be prepared to stop" as the regulation requires, he didn't even lift his foot off the throttle.
If I ignore it, I get my national level racing license revoked immediately. If I ignore a red flag, I never race again in my country. If Lando Norris, one of the greatest racing drivers in the world, ignores it, he will get a drive through penalty. The penalty should be stiffer.
It’s unfair to say Lawson is underperforming when compared to Tsunoda. Tommy - "he has not performed as well as Yuki Tsunoda at all" Let’s examine the facts: In his current stint, Lawson has raced five times and scored points twice, finishing P9 both times. Here's the breakdown: GP finishes: Lawson 2 vs Tsunoda 3. Lawson (P9, P16, P9, P16, P14) vs Tsunoda (P14, P20, P7, P9, P13). Sprint results: Lawson 2 vs Tsunoda 1. Lawson (P16, P9, P16) vs Tsunoda (P11, P15, P17). In qualifying, Tsunoda has outqualified Lawson in each GP session, but it hasn’t been a landslide. Consider the context: Austin: Lawson set the faster time but was tasked with helping Tsunoda due to a massive grid penalty he inherited. Even with Lawson’s tow in Q2, Tsunoda couldn’t post a better time. Lawson's time in Q1 was good enough for P9 had he been able to participate in the other sessions. Mexico: Tsunoda qualified 11th and Lawson 12th, separated by just over a tenth. However, Tsunoda’s crash in Q2 denied Lawson, who was on a strong lap, the chance to progress further. Brazil: Both excelled in wet conditions, with Tsunoda qualifying P3 and Lawson P5. Las Vegas: Lawson struggled in the cold, dirty conditions-unique on the calendar-while Tsunoda’s experience paid off. Lawson qualifying P16; Tsunoda, P7. Qatar: Both cars lacked pace the whole weekend. Lawson missed Q2 by less than a tenth, with Tsunoda advancing but only to P14. Lawson qualified P17. Sprint qualifying tells a different story though: Lawson 2 vs Tsunoda 1. Lawson (P15, P8, P10) vs Tsunoda (P9, P18, P17). - Lawson somehow got the slowest car on the Grid in Qatar to P10 in the sprint qualifying. This is Tsunoda’s fourth year in F1. Is this his ceiling? Meanwhile, Lawson is just starting out and will only improve with experience. I wouldn't say Yuki Tsunoda has performed much better given his experience, take out Las Vegas and I give it to Liam.
[37:03] the thing about George pushing for the Max penalty vs Max pointing out Lando didn't lift is very simple and quite clear in my opinion and it's the fact that the Max penalty is almost universally agreed by anyone to be a joke (since they were on outlaps) meanwhile,for the Lando penalty, there's precedent and its on the rules (you gotta slow down for doble yellows) I don't think Max would be mad if the penalty he was given was a valid one, and after seeing everyone both questioning the 1 place penalty and pointing out precedent for the stop and go, I find it hard to just go a point to Max saying "well he did the same to Lando" since the situations were just not the same at all
I think, however, if you view this through the lens of drivers trying to get an advantage, they are just the same. And no Max shouldn't have gotten a penalty, and George should have understood Max's situation at the time. Personally, I wish they wouldn't do any of it.
I don't know why people are so upset about Lando Norris stop and go penalty. As much I know, Jules Bianchi died because he didnt slow under double waved yellow flags. So yes you deserve your race ruined for not slowing under yellow.
@@sbGOM even then, pointing out something the stewards might have missed to gain an advantage is still very different to pushing for a bogus penalty to do the same. in one of them you can back up your claim with the rulebook I just don't think it's correct to just strip the situation of all context, because of course they want to win, that's why they're there to begin with. and that's the same in every sport for example, in a football match, if a player pushes the ref to award a penalty kick for a handball you wouldn't just say "oh they just want to win", because it's a clear cut breaking of the rules, on the other hand if a forward dives in the penalty box and pushes the ref for the pen, well that's a different story
Max talked about how George went before the stewards and kept on trying to screw over Max full force. Its not the on track part that angered Max afaik.
@@illnamethisaccountlater4762 I know yes, his only comparison is Bottas but we cannot assume he'd go a great job with a better car either. In truth he looks like a very mid driver. He's not crash prone which is a positive but he doesn't strike me as particularly fast.
@soundscape26 All your points are valid. However, Matt and Tommy have dragged him all season despite the difficult circumstances. I am not saying he is the second coming of verstappen, just that he deserves an apology for the jokes that have been sent his way this season. Additionally, my comment was more in jest rather than demanding an apology.
The penalty for not lifting under double yellow in race is 10s stop and go in the rule books, that's consistent with penalty that was given in all previous incidents. Speeding under double yellow in race just doesn't happen often, last time it was Austrian GP in 2021. Latifi and Mazepin both got 10s stop and go for it. I kind of expected you guys to the research and mention that in the podcast.
imo if George wants to be a spokesperson for the other drivers then he cant do those things. Also If Max goes off like that then Im assuming George really went off. Simply pointing something out on the radio is very different from what it sounds like George did.
Max said George is another person in the media, than he is behind the cameras which he did not like. I think Max is true on this, people talking about themself in 3rd person like George usually have a "i am better than you" syndrome :D
But let’s not forget that Max has incredibly thin skin. It doesn’t take much to set Max off. So I don’t take Max at his word. George could’ve said something mild and Max would’ve reacted like this.
@@mono-mq2ph I think it’s the fact that George chose to be civil and deal with it in the stewards room like an adult. Instead of throwing a public tantrum like Max has done before that annoyed Max. Like, that’s not George being “two-faced”. That’s George showing emotional control and not needing to vent publicly about it and would rather deal with it privately. Whereas Max is just thin skinned everywhere.
37:28 what yall miss about the Russell penalty vs Norris, it appeared Russell tried to fabricate that penalty (even as agreed by the stewards) by speeding up on a slow lap. Norris penalty Max called out was 100% legit
@@FrancisFjordCupola First of all, Dutch isn't a race (and I say this as someone who IS actually a different race). Second, Tommy's favourite driver is Max and Matt wants to have Charles' love child, so no favourtism here. @jonathan_toole's original post was completely right, but you're way off.
It's almost like impulsively thrusting someone new in a position as important as race director with 2 races to go in a season wasn't a great idea! Who would've thought
Regarding the Max/George thing, Dutch media said it had a lot to do with George being nonchalant in the media beforehand but then going into the stewards room and saying Max did it on purpose. Max values honesty, this was not it
I've looked through the FIA page to look for examples of double waved being ignored during the race. Last time it happened it was 2021 in Austria. Latifi and Mazepin both got a 10sec Stop&Go for it. And I'm saying this as a McLaren and Lando fan. So I hate to say it, but it actually might be fair enough.
Tbh it’s more the fact it took them so long to even consider it. The level was right - it’s a safety issue so right to be clear on the severity but it needed to be imposed swiftly. Again, too slow on key decisions, and it didn’t just impact on Norris but destroyed several races
personally I want it changed, it's just way too big for a penalty for a yellow flag, which could be a tiny bit of debris. I'm fine with the penalty if they change it now.
@stankewrx personally I think the penalty for basically not slowing down under double yellow is fair (need to be able to stop) BUT the whole point of waving double instead of single yellow makes no sense to me. These flags are normally used for more serious and direct threats where for example someone is potentially walking over / near the track
Penalty was fair by rulebook, thing is context of this year and last years penalties. Speeding under yellow is bad, but if you have kilometer free space before you it is less dangerous then pushing somebody off, especially near barriers, risking collision and health of drivers. Still bigger penalty. They probably decided to impose more harsh penalties, but it could stay untill next season so there is some consistensy
That's the issue. The mirror was on the track for a while. Then the flags removed. Then the mirror destroyed. Then nothing. Then punctures. Then safety car. That's the issue. Even Lando himself says the penalty was a fair one. Unlike the grid penalty shambles which was just a mess. The race management was a farce.
Yes, that mirror was super dangerous, so dangerous that the race direction left it there for ages until Bottas smashed it, and even at that only decided for the SC after Lewis and Carlos got their punctures. Not really the same conditions as Suzuka 2014.
You do know that we had pooring Rain & atrocious Conditions in Suzuka 2014 & many mistakes were made right ? An marshall even waved the flipping green flag instead of an yellow at that corner + ON TOP that Recovery Vehicle which had NO PLACE to be there IN THE FIRST PLACE which was a major mistake & it ended in the most fatal way for Jules so the FIA should have cancelled the race right away instead of carrying on the spray was getting harder & visibility was bad lap by lap... And this here lets face it was also disgraceful on their part again ! Instead of bringing the VSC out so that debris can be covered NOPE they carried ON RACING. What kind of a procedure is that xD and yes sure Carlos & Hamilton had worn tyres but thats exactly the point the RISK of having then a damaged tyre is a lot higher because the debris are sharp as razors its carbon fibre...at times i really dont understand what some of them in charge are thinking they are getting PAID to deliver such a shitshow.
And the stupid consequence of this indecision and delay is the HOST of penalties that would have been avoided - Lando not slowing under double yellows, Lewis pit stop speeding etc etc. This was the start of all the subsequent non entertaining chaos. This is not even counting Lewis' and Sainz's ruined race.
Agreed Tom, 21:00. You have evidence of exact penalty back in Austria 2021 when Vettel and Kimi crashed at the end of the race with Mazepin going through the yellow with no lift and got the same penalty of 10 second stop go penalty
Meanwhile Max only gets a 5s penalty for breaking the VSC rules. VSC infringements are significantly worse than double yellow infringements. But at least this should shut up all the “British Bias” nonsense.
@@paperplane-db8qf you are really blind. Failing to be delta positive by 0.6 seconds when max was slow is worse than Lando keeping it pinned at 300kph in double yellow zone? Where do you find such stupidity?
@@paperplane-db8qfyou made the mistake of trying to reason in Fewwawwi and SuperMax-Land. Obviously the safety car infringement should have been more than 5 seconds if „going 2km/h faster than max“ is worth getting executed by the FIA. The S in the VSC stands for safety. If you take the rules literally, no one lifted enough, max was not driving in a way where he was prepared to stop, he didn’t even slow down, he just didn’t accelerate for a second. So the „it’s for safety reasons“ argument doesn’t really work. Especially when you then have a Lewis Hamilton speeding in the pitlane, the one place on track where there’s personnel unprotected, and go like „yeah, not as bad as driving past a mirror“. They need to sell tickets for Abu Dhabi, and they’re not even trying to hide it.
i’m surprised how many people are misunderstanding Max. he was not pissed about the penalty (although he did find it bullshit) but more about the way George handled it. pretending everything was fine in public and then pushing way harder than necessary for a penalty in the stewards room is what Max was angry about. Max being as blunt as he is, really values honesty.
Unless Ben Suleiman is removed (and a new President takes serious action to sort out the mess that is the current FIA), then F1 seriously needs to think about breaking away from FIA jurisdiction.
They (FOM) will not break away from FIA. FIA are the owners. FOM is basically leasing them commercial rights. FOM could break away from FIA and create their own racing series.
The last 3 times someone has sped under double yellows, it's been the exact same penalty. Latifi and Mazepin (good company norris 😬), in Austria 2021 and kimi in 2017.
@@mclark2310s stop and go or 30s after the race, regardless of the circuit it's the same penalty in the rules. So if the race is over = 30s. If the race is ongoing = 10s stop and go
@@mclark23Stop and go is indeed always a stop and go. If some pit lanes are longer doesn’t make the punishment not the same. A 10 second penalty always be on a scale of having no effect or destroying someone’s race. However, penalties are not based on the effect they cause, they are just given.
On the whole Ocon debacle, it was supposedly a mutual agreement to clear Ocon of his sponsor- and team obligations early so he could start preparing for his move to Haas and participate in the post-season test for them. Compare that to say, Lewis, who isn't going to drive a Ferrari until 2025 because his contract runs until the end of the year. It's obviously not ideal for Ocon but I think it was probably mutually beneficial for both parties in this case.
Petition for Matt Both Matt and Tommy get a point for sprint win. One was right, one shoulda been right. "Do the right thing Tommy. You'll need him later in the season."
The stewards have nothing to do with safety cars/VSC. That is on the racing director, which agreed it was a shambles. The lando penalty was correct to the book, but the time it takes the stewards to investigate and award penalty’s is definitely too slow.
This is something I mentioned before in your comments, the FIA need to have a media conversation on ALL of their decisions with footage to explain why they did what they did, including the severity and timing (i.e why after the race etc). If they are wrong in any decision they need to be reprimanded.
If I were lewis or carlos i would be furious. Safety car was so delayed that they didn't even get the benefit of pitting under a safety car for punctures that were completely and only avoidable by the race director. What a joke.
I think your missing the point why max said what he did. George pulled a professional foul by pretending to nearly hit him, for the sake of getting him penalized and protecting a pole lap. Kinda like diving in the penalty box in soccer. For a guy that has only won 3 races, he talks like he is Max/Lewis equal. Then does stuff like this. He tried the same thing with Alonso, ended up in the wall. And got away with it, so here is the 2nd attempt, got away with it again. And Ocon situation was mutual, Ocon wanted to drive Haas test, Alpine wanted something in return.
The main difference between Russell and the way he handled himself with the stewards, vs Max doing apparently the same thing, is that Max does the talking on track where it matters, and in this instance, Russell didnt. All that effort though for nothing, Max beating him into turn one anyway!
Talking on track or in the stewards office is irrelevant. Some arbitrary boundary doesn’t matter. Russell was never going to win anyway. The Mercedes were the 6th fastest car on track in Lewis’s hands. Russell has to get every advantage he can.
@ because he wanted a pole position. It’s not like he didn’t know if he’d win. They were competitive on the sprint race before everyone was somehow allowed to disregard parc ferme rules.
I don't know if it is because of the language barrier but the issue Max has with George is not the fact that he pushed for the penalty. It is the 2-faced nature regarding it. He should have been upfront (towards the media?) that he was pushing for the penalty. Basically he said towards the dutch journalist he cannot stand 2-faced people and that nature makes him lose respect for them.
The difference between the Max/Lando situation and the Max/George situation is the public versus private intent: iow George’s attitude during the post-quali interview versus his behaviour in the Steward’s room.
I think the worst part of the penalty discussion is that often times as fans we don't know what penalty aligns with the given offence. Having not seen a speeding under a double yellow in a while, or because it was stroll and I didn't care my first reaction to speeding under a yellow was what kind of penalties do they give for that? I guess I was expecting a 5 or 10 second penalty, and was shocked by the stop and go. So I think a big part of communicating to the fans is knowing what kind of penalties go with what kind of issues, but there is very little information about that without diving into the depths of rule books... Even then its hard to find.
Thing is, we do have previous offences and we do know the penalties that were applied. The last 3 times someone has sped under double yellows, it's been the exact same penalty it was applied to Lando today. Latifi and Mazepin in Austria '21 and Kimi in Spa '17. All three of them were given a 10 second stop and go. So, we do in fact know what penalty to expect, and so do the drivers and teams.
Dude it's not just fans... Even the official commentators are buttering lando over this without an ounce of understanding as to what has been the outcome in the past
@@dioseolo yeah, but my point is did you remember exactly what it was without looking it up? Most people aren't going to remember a penalty from 4 years unless it was their favorite driver. Therefore most fans, not all, but most had no idea how severe of an offence it was.
22:43 it didn’t just cost Lando points for the constructors championship but also for his fight for second place in the drivers championship with Charles.
Bernie Collins said at the end of the Sky coverage that stewards have recommended penalties for each infraction and both Lando and Lewis got what was recommended, with Lewis getting the more severe pitlane speeding penalty recommended for breaking the speed limit by a greater amount. Of course that doesn't explain a lot of the other nonsense this weekend but apparently those two penalties were by the book.
As much as it pains me as a McLaren fan, it’s an entirely fair penalty. It’s a penalty on safety grounds. Penalties on safety grounds have always been much much harsher than for racing incidents. I think where the issue has arisen here (apart from just simply the increasing polarisation we see in F1 these days as in the whole world) is that the 10 second stop go has become a much much rarer penalty. We are used to these 5 or 10 second time penalties for track infringements or grid drops but when I first watched F1, the 10 sec stop go was all we used to see before the black flag. They also never used to the race killers because the fields used to spread out so much more than they do now. It sucks big time but it’s totally the right decision and penalty. The FIA though were totally effed though because they screwed up the race by not recognising/seeing/dealing with the clear debris on track. It needed an immediate VSC, maybe divert through the pit lane whilst a marshall retrieves the mirror and then restart the race. That would have taken 1 lap if they weren’t so totally incompetent.
What's lacking was how slow race control was to VSC/SC the circuit to get rid of the wing mirror on the straight. It took someone to run over it as well as suffer punctures (regardless if it's related) for them to neutralize the race.
George being the president of the GPDA is like a kid being a class president and abusing the position for his own benefit while putting airs of being a model student.
I want to give a shoutout to the race broadcast dirtection. Like very well done. Good PIPs (picture in picture) good camera work. relevant shots and replays. We usualy shit talk them when its bad but we need to appriciate when its good.
my issue with the penalty for Lando, is that if it was so clear, why did it take around 15 minutes and 10+ laps, including pitstops and 2 safety cars before finally handing it out with 13 laps left and everyone bunched up - no reason for such a delay
I do think it's the FIA screwing around with the constructor championship. Since they couldn't get the Max vs. Lando, they are now McLaren vs. Ferrari.
Easy to comprehend. It's because of all the other crashes and shoves and things, like Stroll and Albon and Hamilton came in as things to look at first.
I guess so but still I don't know why it took them so long to give the penalty to Lando and also why have double yellows when no marshalls or cars are in the middle of the track
It feels like with most of the decisions in the race they just waited until it would actually do the most damage to someone’s race or the integrity of the sport. The FIA is chronically slow when making decisions.
I'm a Lando fan, and I think the penalty was fair enough for exactly the reasons you have said. However I think Matt's point about the extent to which other drivers slow is a good one. If we are saying that this is a matter of safety and you can't mess around with it, is coming off the throttle for a second really making a huge difference at these speeds. Maybe a specific speed limit in yellow flags, or a VSC type thing but only for part of the track needs to be looked at, as I don't think the extent to which drivers lift makes them signfiicantly safer than going full throttle.
37:07 The difference being everyone agrees that was a penalty whereas Russel's complaint was bullshit. I think Max doesn't mind when people complain, since indeed he does it himself, only when they do it unfairly.
Lando literally false started on a rainy track with marshalls trying to remove a stricken car and didn't get shit. But he gets obliterated for the double yellows with a 10sec s&g. These rules are fucking BAFFLING beyond words bro. And then Max literally getting a penalty for something that has only ever gotten a penalty like 1 singular time ever in the entire sport that was a bullshit call then and even worse now.
Both were fair. In Brazil there’s no penalty or rule for that situation. And Sainz didn’t get penalized for doing the same thing in Monza. And ignoring double yellow flags is historically a 10s stop go.
@@paperplane-db8qfnah fam... Just because there is no precedent they have to punish an event of that caliber. There were less disruptive versions of what Lando did with much harsher punishments on the books. So it was absolutely disgusting that he only got a monetary penalty.
the point is that GR says that it wasn't too bad in front of the camera and press, but changes his tune when at the stewards. If GR was the same before camera as he was in the stewardsroom MV would have accepted it. It's about being a different person
I’m typing this before watching the full video, so sorry if this does get brought up But why did the Ferrari who lapped Bottas not get a penalty? You’re not allowed to overtake a car under yellow flag conditions for any reason, unless they are involved in the incident which was causing the yellow flag, which Bottas wasn’t. This included lapping someone. By lapping Bottas, Leclerc (I believe) was ignoring double waved yellows, same as Norris did
The fact that max saw the yellow flag is insane it remind me of the interview with newey where newey said that some of the elite driver have spare mental capacity ! We can clearly see that Norris doesn't have that and that max is goated
49:52 so apparently, looking at the FIA document about his "dangerous driving", he spun on his own, and then his clutch died right when he was trying to spin it back to join the queue
If Ocon had stayed for the last race Alpine would have blocked him doing the Haas open test afterward. By terminating his contract now Ocon can do the test and start working with his new team and Alpine can get Doohan some seat time in advance of next season.
I want to see the onboard of the other 15/16 drivers left in the race during the double-waived yellow. I have no confidence that all of them lifted. If you're going to give Lando that penalty, then it needs to be handed out to everyone else who didn't lift during the double-waived yellow.
@@Ibukun_1 Leclerc braked most of all out those that encountered it as a double yellow (only the top5 and Bottas did). Sainz did take the piss a bit more but at least he showed that he KNEW the double waved were there, something Lando didnt and that is why he got hammered.
@@jamesacusar5661speeding in the pits is 5 seconds if it's minimal. Ie 1 km/hr or so. Which is like 1% over. Lewis was 12.5km/hr over. And sustained that for a second. 16% over the speed limit.
It's baffling how one day ignoring flags/lights is a 5k penalty and the next it's a 10s stop and go. Yes, that start in brazil should have been a stop and go too.
re: slowing down for double waved yellow... Only the top 5 plus Bottas encountered it. Leclerc was the most polite of all, and Sainz did the barest of minimums, but all lifted except Norris.
There is a difference, pointing out to a breach, vs kicking and screaming, crying and begging for other to get penalised, and I can fully see George going to extreme lows to get Max the penalty.
Max: I've been to the stewards many times. And I've never seen someone trying to screw someone over that hard. And then for me, I lost all respect. George Russell is such a faker
Check the telemetry during Qualifying, or watch Peter Windsor’s podcast, and you will find that Max let Fernando by before the curve and Fernando slows to 129 kph at that curve. Max was nailed for driving too slowly at 167 kph, nearly 40 kph faster, likely in response to Fernando’s hard braking. Could it be that George saw what was going on (which apparently was in the Stewards’ report saying George had visibility of the situation in front of him) and basically kept his speed because he wanted to draw that penalty on Max? Being the posh, whiny jerk George is, it wouldn’t surprise non-George fans.
Nothing's more certain than an F1 driver wanting to get a competing driver into trouble with the headmaster, that's for sure. But heh, Max is an expert at it as was on display during the race.
Max saying Lando didn't slow down is way different than George saying things were fine to the media then trying to lawyer a penalty in the stewards room to get pole
Yes, he made a deal with Briatore to allow him to do the Haas post season test in exchange for giving up his place in the final race to Doohan. Apparently the team principal wasn’t even informed because he was blindsided by the press asking him about it. Appreciate that this podcast is uploaded fast, so these details might not have emerged at the time it was recorded.
Yes, Matt is all vibes here. Haas & Alpine just did a transaction: Ocon gets to do the test, Doohan the race. Ocon’s contract surely would’ve allowed him to decline.
I can definitely see him being a snivelling little two faced rat irl who just puts on a front for the media but I'm sure a lot of top athletes are like that
From Max's interview it genuinely felt like George spewed some real whiny sh*t in that room, much more than on the radio. Max doesn't speak BS, and I haven't seen him this disappointed with anyone for a long time, even in 2021 he was not this scathing for Lewis.
@@thecompanioncube4211 Because Max gets Horner to do his whining for him. And Max is incredibly thin skinned. That’s been obvious for years. All it would of taken is probably George saying that Max did hinder George’s lap and Max would’ve thrown a tantrum.
initially I was very confused about the penalty but after ... yeah seems fair. You can't just go through double yellows like that. As an example even a youtube "supergt" he was competing on Nurburgring he ignore double yellows (did not see them I don't think or saw it too late) and got disqualified for it. So you don't mess with safety
In my mind the infuriating part with the Lando penalty is how long the stewards sat on their ass to give it. Especially with how much pace he had in that car and since its such a clear cut penalty how can it be ok to wait until the last 10-15 laps to finally decide on it 😅
George is a baby. And Lewis checked out long ago. I never thought I would hear a team tell their 7x World champion to keep on racing and we aren’t going to retire the car early for no reason.
That's just a dumb take, they wanted to do his pen first so it wouldn't hop over to Abu Dhabi and result in a 5+ grid drop After that they asked if he still wanted to retire and Lewis kept on going...
Interesting take on ZHOU. When he came into F1 that car was good for about 6-8 races. As the car declined in performance zhou never really understood how to make the car better since he never got the experience enough to know what a good car feels like. That first few races with the good alpha he was still feeling it out in F1. That’s why when the car was at its lowest this summer he seems so hopeless.
The right penalty? Yes. Should the situation have arisen? No. Double yellow flags mean you must slow down and be prepared to stop as EVERY racing driver knows. Kimi Raikkonen had the same penalty for the exact same thing in Belgium so it was always gonna happen to Lando here. However, the FIA didn’t help the situation by not neutralising the race when they should’ve done, which is an offence that they keep on committing and I have complained about time and time again, and now look what happened. We’re lucky none of those glass shards caused injury to anybody. The FIA were a disgrace before this race. But they have sank to a new low in Qatar. At least there was a shining light in the fact that Zhou Guanyu scored 4 points for Sauber and deservedly so.
@@waynec3563 WDYM? If FIA had neutralised the race when the mirror was still in one piece, one lap of VSC would've been enough to pick it up and the double yellows would've never happened.
@@Trakkson Lando would likely have arrived at the scene with the double-waved yellows, and before the VSC was called. And he would still have failed to slow down for the flags.
The thing to remember about Lawson, is that he hasn't done any significant tyre-testing. Vegas was low-grip + plus cold temperatures, meaning he quickly grained the tyres and couldn't get them into the window. Qatar is high abrasion, so the setups are designed to put less energy into the tyres but he still got a SQ3 and was unlucky at the start because he got pinched on the wrong line. In quali his lap was disrupted, but still close enough to Tsunoda. RB was pretty rubbish at Qatar last season as well because they have a fundamental issue with tyre condition and overheating (which is probably why they were so good at Brazil in the wet). Plus RB's genius strategy department putting both Yuki and Liam on softs with 10-15 laps to go made any attempt for either driver to get into the points fruitless. He's not ready for Red Bull, that would be clear even if he got points in every race and was smashing Yuki. What happened to giving drivers a (proper) season to develop before throwing them in the deep end?
To let us guys discuss about bad decisions is exactly the point they want to achieve with the bad decisions. Fia nowdays is just a money making machine, they not only care about the rules of racing, but also about generating controversies that promotes the sport. Sadly that’s the reality.
On the stop/Go, I’m 100% with Tommy and Matt. Safety rules broken should be punished harshly. What I don’t get is not knowing if others broke that rule also. It should be easy. When Max called it out GP knew right away, likely looking at the data, Lando didn’t lift. FIA and stewards should have data on the spot to see who did/didn’t lift.
Safety infringements - 5 sec Stop and go plus 4 points on your license. (3x safety infringement = race ban) Sporting infringements - drive through Done. No more 1 place, 3 place, 5 sec, 10 sec, community service yadayada.
No. Five seconds is way too low. What hit Norris is he got it _after_ the race restarted, meaning the field was bunched together and thus passed him while he served. The penalty was set to 10 seconds stop and go because people profited from safety infringements. Drive-throughs are better than +10 seconds or +5 seconds. But we need to have better rules for passing. Right now they are terrible because they have been changed too often because people do not want Max to win.
"The FIA is more useless than Stroll because the FIA has more to do with the actual sport" is savage but necessary
The FIA should be held to the same standards that the drivers are held to.
Apparently Perez spun on his own and then burned out his clutch, which is just the icing on the cake for him this season.
Haha .. I figured it was self-inflicted but hadn’t heard the findings.
Is this confirmed?
@@Pedro285 Both Marko and Horner confirmed he burned his clutch and that's why he lost drive. Also, Horner said he just spun, not a word about a "power over-delivery". Regardless, on the onboard you can see Perez panics and goes full throttle on 3rd gear and (not sure if this is relevant) his steering wheel screen starts to blink whilst doing this.
@@Salafessien thanks
It was so pitiful to go back and watch from his onboard, the absolute panic throttling he does to try to get going
@@DominicGreene72The stewards investigated it as a potential dangerous driving and found out that he was trying to do a spin move to get back and while doing so his clutch failed and so his full throttle did nothing.
"Always ready for Tommy unloading" what a way to start the video 😂
Remember when Matt said he was piping himself? 😆
Reminds me of Peter Brook's description of a particular Hunt and Lauda midrace tryst
Cause hes a Biased fool
The only thing ever as good as Tommy unloading was a Katie Rant™
Are they having the live shoes in a bdsm club?
Checo managing to spin his car and completely destroy his clutch by trying to start in 3rd gear in less than 10 seconds behind the safety car, including whatever the sprint was, has to be deserving of a -1/10.
And for anyone who thinks it wasn’t entirely his fault, Horner said he spun and burned his clutch. No sign of mechanical issues before he caused his own mechanical DNF.
He’s throwing the race for 20mil
Christian just stopping short of saying that Checo is not back next season. I could tell he was fighting himself not to say it.
Yeah, like even if you can excuse the spin (if in fact it was the engine just overdelivering power, which in any case was probably Perez forgetting to change a setting under SC), it was still under safety car there was no need for him to rush off the track in 3rd gear (which was probably even more dangerous if anti-stall kicked in while he was still on the track)
How in tf does he have a ride?
You are to generous, i'd go for -10/10.
You know it's been a ridiculous race when the podcast comes out before midnight on the day of the race.
and it's over an hour long
By 5 minutes... not exactly like it's out straight after the race
Stop being so dramatic
@@hib6076🤓
@@hib6076stop being so annoying❤🙏
@@hib6076it was about 6 hours before midnight in my time zone 😂
You can tell its a hell of a race when Zhou scoring points isn't a most memorable moment.
You can tell Zhou was impressive if he scored points without there being 11 retirements. 😂
@@spawnofapathy So we had 11 retirements then?
Yeah it was actually a good race. I was waiting really boring one as this track has been last few years. We had so many good races this year. I cant wait for 2025.
Plus making overtakes like he has been doing it all year. Happy for him getting some acknowledgement. He is a very good driver, but he got shafted stake levels of shafting.
Max has more of an issue with George acting one way to the media and another behind the scenes. I don't think he's have as much of an issue if George said to the media the same things he said in the stewards room
To his face rather than stewards room or media.
There is now available Russell's in-car video from the qualifying incident. He manufactured the incident and then conspired with Garry Connelly to turn it into a penalty. Russell pretending to be a human being outside of the stewards' room was not the cause of Max Verstappen's ire. I look forward to Max making a point of humiliating George from now until George retires without ever getting a sniff at a title.
@@CJinSD1 link to video?
@@Olifantenstaart th-cam.com/video/BtEEzF4v02I/w-d-xo.html
@@Olifantenstaart th-cam.com/video/BtEEzF4v02I/w-d-xo.html The relevant part starts at 1:21 Russell was told what to expect. Then he could see ahead of him clearly. Then he ran up to Verstappen and swerved to start his narrative with Garry Connelly.
In german commentary Ralf Schumacher did actually get angry when his co-commentator implied Lando Norris shouldnt have got such a harsh penalty. His take was that literally ever racing driver knows this rule and to disregard it puts everyone in danger.
If it was so dangerous, there was 4 or 5 laps to throw a VSC or full safety car. Instead, the officials decided not to. Either it was dangerous or it's not. The officials can't have it both ways.
@rodbritton360 You're right but Lando doesn't know that, he has to assume their is danger or when there is he could kill someone
@@rodbritton360 just because the race director should have thrown a VSC does not make Lando's lack of lifting any less dangerous. One does not erase the other.
@@rodbritton360 a double yellow is a double yellow, it doesn't matter if it should've been a vsc or sc, the fact is it was a double yellow and he failed to "slow down and be prepared to stop" as the regulation requires, he didn't even lift his foot off the throttle.
If I ignore it, I get my national level racing license revoked immediately. If I ignore a red flag, I never race again in my country.
If Lando Norris, one of the greatest racing drivers in the world, ignores it, he will get a drive through penalty.
The penalty should be stiffer.
Can’t wait to hear Tommy go ballistic on the FIA for that shocker of a performance
Let’s goooooo to Tommy!!
It’s unfair to say Lawson is underperforming when compared to Tsunoda.
Tommy - "he has not performed as well as Yuki Tsunoda at all"
Let’s examine the facts:
In his current stint, Lawson has raced five times and scored points twice, finishing P9 both times. Here's the breakdown:
GP finishes: Lawson 2 vs Tsunoda 3.
Lawson (P9, P16, P9, P16, P14) vs Tsunoda (P14, P20, P7, P9, P13).
Sprint results: Lawson 2 vs Tsunoda 1.
Lawson (P16, P9, P16) vs Tsunoda (P11, P15, P17).
In qualifying, Tsunoda has outqualified Lawson in each GP session, but it hasn’t been a landslide. Consider the context:
Austin: Lawson set the faster time but was tasked with helping Tsunoda due to a massive grid penalty he inherited. Even with Lawson’s tow in Q2, Tsunoda couldn’t post a better time. Lawson's time in Q1 was good enough for P9 had he been able to participate in the other sessions.
Mexico: Tsunoda qualified 11th and Lawson 12th, separated by just over a tenth. However, Tsunoda’s crash in Q2 denied Lawson, who was on a strong lap, the chance to progress further.
Brazil: Both excelled in wet conditions, with Tsunoda qualifying P3 and Lawson P5.
Las Vegas: Lawson struggled in the cold, dirty conditions-unique on the calendar-while Tsunoda’s experience paid off. Lawson qualifying P16; Tsunoda, P7.
Qatar: Both cars lacked pace the whole weekend. Lawson missed Q2 by less than a tenth, with Tsunoda advancing but only to P14. Lawson qualified P17.
Sprint qualifying tells a different story though:
Lawson 2 vs Tsunoda 1.
Lawson (P15, P8, P10) vs Tsunoda (P9, P18, P17). - Lawson somehow got the slowest car on the Grid in Qatar to P10 in the sprint qualifying.
This is Tsunoda’s fourth year in F1. Is this his ceiling? Meanwhile, Lawson is just starting out and will only improve with experience. I wouldn't say Yuki Tsunoda has performed much better given his experience, take out Las Vegas and I give it to Liam.
Kudos to Sauber for a mirror-proof car!
Tractors can run over a plow and not get a puncture 👌🚜🐐
@@blasphemer_amon He didn't hit the mirror with his tyres otherwise it could've been different
Bottas actually wanted to ruin the car 😏
[37:03] the thing about George pushing for the Max penalty vs Max pointing out Lando didn't lift is very simple and quite clear in my opinion
and it's the fact that the Max penalty is almost universally agreed by anyone to be a joke (since they were on outlaps) meanwhile,for the Lando penalty, there's precedent and its on the rules (you gotta slow down for doble yellows)
I don't think Max would be mad if the penalty he was given was a valid one, and after seeing everyone both questioning the 1 place penalty and pointing out precedent for the stop and go, I find it hard to just go a point to Max saying "well he did the same to Lando" since the situations were just not the same at all
I think, however, if you view this through the lens of drivers trying to get an advantage, they are just the same.
And no Max shouldn't have gotten a penalty, and George should have understood Max's situation at the time. Personally, I wish they wouldn't do any of it.
Not only "slow", you need to be prepared to stop on track if a double yelllow is waved.
I don't know why people are so upset about Lando Norris stop and go penalty.
As much I know, Jules Bianchi died because he didnt slow under double waved yellow flags. So yes you deserve your race ruined for not slowing under yellow.
@@sbGOM even then, pointing out something the stewards might have missed to gain an advantage is still very different to pushing for a bogus penalty to do the same. in one of them you can back up your claim with the rulebook
I just don't think it's correct to just strip the situation of all context, because of course they want to win, that's why they're there to begin with. and that's the same in every sport
for example, in a football match, if a player pushes the ref to award a penalty kick for a handball you wouldn't just say "oh they just want to win", because it's a clear cut breaking of the rules, on the other hand if a forward dives in the penalty box and pushes the ref for the pen, well that's a different story
Max talked about how George went before the stewards and kept on trying to screw over Max full force. Its not the on track part that angered Max afaik.
Zhou is waiting for your guys' apology
Apology for what? 1 good race doesn't make him any less shit
@@illnamethisaccountlater4762 He was terrible most season
@soundscape26 for most of the season, he has been given a butter knife to take to a gun fight.
What exactly were you expecting him to achieve?
@@illnamethisaccountlater4762 I know yes, his only comparison is Bottas but we cannot assume he'd go a great job with a better car either. In truth he looks like a very mid driver. He's not crash prone which is a positive but he doesn't strike me as particularly fast.
@soundscape26 All your points are valid. However, Matt and Tommy have dragged him all season despite the difficult circumstances.
I am not saying he is the second coming of verstappen, just that he deserves an apology for the jokes that have been sent his way this season.
Additionally, my comment was more in jest rather than demanding an apology.
The penalty for not lifting under double yellow in race is 10s stop and go in the rule books, that's consistent with penalty that was given in all previous incidents.
Speeding under double yellow in race just doesn't happen often, last time it was Austrian GP in 2021. Latifi and Mazepin both got 10s stop and go for it.
I kind of expected you guys to the research and mention that in the podcast.
imo if George wants to be a spokesperson for the other drivers then he cant do those things. Also If Max goes off like that then Im assuming George really went off. Simply pointing something out on the radio is very different from what it sounds like George did.
Max said George is another person in the media, than he is behind the cameras which he did not like. I think Max is true on this, people talking about themself in 3rd person like George usually have a "i am better than you" syndrome :D
But let’s not forget that Max has incredibly thin skin. It doesn’t take much to set Max off.
So I don’t take Max at his word. George could’ve said something mild and Max would’ve reacted like this.
@@gameofender4463 he does get mad but he has never talked about another driver like this before no matter how hard the competition was....so idk
@@mono-mq2ph I think it’s the fact that George chose to be civil and deal with it in the stewards room like an adult. Instead of throwing a public tantrum like Max has done before that annoyed Max.
Like, that’s not George being “two-faced”. That’s George showing emotional control and not needing to vent publicly about it and would rather deal with it privately. Whereas Max is just thin skinned everywhere.
@@gameofender4463it's cultural difference. Brits always act fake nicely🙂
Williams would have loved that VSC
No way to ducktape that wing mirror back on for the next race now 😢
LMAO
Think they might have buffed it first.
We see debris... Williams sees precious material 😣😭
I've been refreshing for 2 hours lets have it!
same!!
😅Same here. I was getting anxious
same lmao
If you actually have, you need to get a life 💀
same
What a beautiful Sunday for me as a Sauber fan. 4 points and Zhou driver of the day. I am still partying😀🍺
37:28 what yall miss about the Russell penalty vs Norris, it appeared Russell tried to fabricate that penalty (even as agreed by the stewards) by speeding up on a slow lap. Norris penalty Max called out was 100% legit
*Hard to swallow pills meme*
@@bluej_4189 Nothing hard to swallow. It is racist Brits being racist Brits very consistently.
@@FrancisFjordCupolaah the “always victim” syndrome card played right here lmao
Lmao what a ridiculous thing to say in this context @@FrancisFjordCupola
@@FrancisFjordCupola First of all, Dutch isn't a race (and I say this as someone who IS actually a different race). Second, Tommy's favourite driver is Max and Matt wants to have Charles' love child, so no favourtism here.
@jonathan_toole's original post was completely right, but you're way off.
It's almost like impulsively thrusting someone new in a position as important as race director with 2 races to go in a season wasn't a great idea! Who would've thought
Regarding the Max/George thing, Dutch media said it had a lot to do with George being nonchalant in the media beforehand but then going into the stewards room and saying Max did it on purpose. Max values honesty, this was not it
I've looked through the FIA page to look for examples of double waved being ignored during the race. Last time it happened it was 2021 in Austria. Latifi and Mazepin both got a 10sec Stop&Go for it. And I'm saying this as a McLaren and Lando fan. So I hate to say it, but it actually might be fair enough.
Tbh it’s more the fact it took them so long to even consider it.
The level was right - it’s a safety issue so right to be clear on the severity but it needed to be imposed swiftly.
Again, too slow on key decisions, and it didn’t just impact on Norris but destroyed several races
personally I want it changed, it's just way too big for a penalty for a yellow flag, which could be a tiny bit of debris. I'm fine with the penalty if they change it now.
Okay, yeah, fair enough.
@stankewrx personally I think the penalty for basically not slowing down under double yellow is fair (need to be able to stop) BUT the whole point of waving double instead of single yellow makes no sense to me. These flags are normally used for more serious and direct threats where for example someone is potentially walking over / near the track
Penalty was fair by rulebook, thing is context of this year and last years penalties. Speeding under yellow is bad, but if you have kilometer free space before you it is less dangerous then pushing somebody off, especially near barriers, risking collision and health of drivers. Still bigger penalty. They probably decided to impose more harsh penalties, but it could stay untill next season so there is some consistensy
Jules bianchi crashed with double yellow flags. Anyone who thinks for a second this was a harsh penalty for Lando need to reevaluate their morales
The weirdest situation is that they then removed the double yellow a lap or 2 later
That's the issue. The mirror was on the track for a while. Then the flags removed. Then the mirror destroyed. Then nothing. Then punctures. Then safety car. That's the issue. Even Lando himself says the penalty was a fair one. Unlike the grid penalty shambles which was just a mess.
The race management was a farce.
Yes because this situation is comparable in many ways to that one right? Wake up 😂
Yes, that mirror was super dangerous, so dangerous that the race direction left it there for ages until Bottas smashed it, and even at that only decided for the SC after Lewis and Carlos got their punctures. Not really the same conditions as Suzuka 2014.
You do know that we had pooring Rain & atrocious Conditions in Suzuka 2014 & many mistakes were made right ? An marshall even waved the flipping green flag instead of an yellow at that corner + ON TOP that Recovery Vehicle which had NO PLACE to be there IN THE FIRST PLACE which was a major mistake & it ended in the most fatal way for Jules so the FIA should have cancelled the race right away instead of carrying on the spray was getting harder & visibility was bad lap by lap...
And this here lets face it was also disgraceful on their part again ! Instead of bringing the VSC out so that debris can be covered NOPE they carried ON RACING. What kind of a procedure is that xD and yes sure Carlos & Hamilton had worn tyres but thats exactly the point the RISK of having then a damaged tyre is a lot higher because the debris are sharp as razors its carbon fibre...at times i really dont understand what some of them in charge are thinking they are getting PAID to deliver such a shitshow.
And the stupid consequence of this indecision and delay is the HOST of penalties that would have been avoided - Lando not slowing under double yellows, Lewis pit stop speeding etc etc. This was the start of all the subsequent non entertaining chaos. This is not even counting Lewis' and Sainz's ruined race.
Tommy's angry alter ego is such a treat :)
Agreed Tom, 21:00. You have evidence of exact penalty back in Austria 2021 when Vettel and Kimi crashed at the end of the race with Mazepin going through the yellow with no lift and got the same penalty of 10 second stop go penalty
Meanwhile Max only gets a 5s penalty for breaking the VSC rules.
VSC infringements are significantly worse than double yellow infringements.
But at least this should shut up all the “British Bias” nonsense.
@@paperplane-db8qfHow are VSC infringements bad? They occur after the danger on track has been cleared lmao
@@kylianhunter5952just ignore the dts lando fangirl
@@paperplane-db8qf you are really blind. Failing to be delta positive by 0.6 seconds when max was slow is worse than Lando keeping it pinned at 300kph in double yellow zone? Where do you find such stupidity?
@@paperplane-db8qfyou made the mistake of trying to reason in Fewwawwi and SuperMax-Land. Obviously the safety car infringement should have been more than 5 seconds if „going 2km/h faster than max“ is worth getting executed by the FIA. The S in the VSC stands for safety. If you take the rules literally, no one lifted enough, max was not driving in a way where he was prepared to stop, he didn’t even slow down, he just didn’t accelerate for a second. So the „it’s for safety reasons“ argument doesn’t really work. Especially when you then have a Lewis Hamilton speeding in the pitlane, the one place on track where there’s personnel unprotected, and go like „yeah, not as bad as driving past a mirror“. They need to sell tickets for Abu Dhabi, and they’re not even trying to hide it.
i’m surprised how many people are misunderstanding Max. he was not pissed about the penalty (although he did find it bullshit) but more about the way George handled it. pretending everything was fine in public and then pushing way harder than necessary for a penalty in the stewards room is what Max was angry about. Max being as blunt as he is, really values honesty.
Max drove 258 km and Norris drove 323 km under double yellow.
Unless Ben Suleiman is removed (and a new President takes serious action to sort out the mess that is the current FIA), then F1 seriously needs to think about breaking away from FIA jurisdiction.
They (FOM) will not break away from FIA. FIA are the owners. FOM is basically leasing them commercial rights. FOM could break away from FIA and create their own racing series.
Problem is they have feeder formulas that suddenly would need stewarding too.
The last 3 times someone has sped under double yellows, it's been the exact same penalty. Latifi and Mazepin (good company norris 😬), in Austria 2021 and kimi in 2017.
30 seconds each time?
@@mclark2310s stop and go or 30s after the race, regardless of the circuit it's the same penalty in the rules.
So if the race is over = 30s. If the race is ongoing = 10s stop and go
@@mclark23give or take yes, what are you fishing for
@@mclark23Stop and go is indeed always a stop and go. If some pit lanes are longer doesn’t make the punishment not the same. A 10 second penalty always be on a scale of having no effect or destroying someone’s race. However, penalties are not based on the effect they cause, they are just given.
My question, was Lando really the only driver who didn't lift?
On the whole Ocon debacle, it was supposedly a mutual agreement to clear Ocon of his sponsor- and team obligations early so he could start preparing for his move to Haas and participate in the post-season test for them. Compare that to say, Lewis, who isn't going to drive a Ferrari until 2025 because his contract runs until the end of the year. It's obviously not ideal for Ocon but I think it was probably mutually beneficial for both parties in this case.
42:47 You missed the Zhou-vinazzi open goal there
Petition for Matt
Both Matt and Tommy get a point for sprint win. One was right, one shoulda been right.
"Do the right thing Tommy. You'll need him later in the season."
You could say that the mirror incident reflects poorly on stewards...in fact you could say the whole FIA is smoke and mirrors...I'll stop now.
The stewards have nothing to do with safety cars/VSC. That is on the racing director, which agreed it was a shambles. The lando penalty was correct to the book, but the time it takes the stewards to investigate and award penalty’s is definitely too slow.
r/angryupvote
They all need to take a good hard look at themselves.
@@jamie3499missed the joke bro
@@jamie3499 if you look up now, you might just see the joke flying over your head.
This is something I mentioned before in your comments, the FIA need to have a media conversation on ALL of their decisions with footage to explain why they did what they did, including the severity and timing (i.e why after the race etc). If they are wrong in any decision they need to be reprimanded.
How will the governing body reprimand itself
Transparency is not MBS’s style, hypocrisy is.
@@harry4454 have a rotation of FIA directors and if they f-up they are dropped without pay for x amount of races
If I were lewis or carlos i would be furious. Safety car was so delayed that they didn't even get the benefit of pitting under a safety car for punctures that were completely and only avoidable by the race director. What a joke.
I think your missing the point why max said what he did. George pulled a professional foul by pretending to nearly hit him, for the sake of getting him penalized and protecting a pole lap. Kinda like diving in the penalty box in soccer.
For a guy that has only won 3 races, he talks like he is Max/Lewis equal. Then does stuff like this. He tried the same thing with Alonso, ended up in the wall. And got away with it, so here is the 2nd attempt, got away with it again.
And Ocon situation was mutual, Ocon wanted to drive Haas test, Alpine wanted something in return.
The main difference between Russell and the way he handled himself with the stewards, vs Max doing apparently the same thing, is that Max does the talking on track where it matters, and in this instance, Russell didnt. All that effort though for nothing, Max beating him into turn one anyway!
Talking on track or in the stewards office is irrelevant. Some arbitrary boundary doesn’t matter.
Russell was never going to win anyway. The Mercedes were the 6th fastest car on track in Lewis’s hands. Russell has to get every advantage he can.
@@paperplane-db8qfoh so now it's sour grapes. If he wasn't going to win "anyways" why tf whine in front of maFIA then.
Max said after the penalty that after turn 1 he takes that back and he literally did that 😭 mad Max at it again
@ because he wanted a pole position. It’s not like he didn’t know if he’d win.
They were competitive on the sprint race before everyone was somehow allowed to disregard parc ferme rules.
I don't know if it is because of the language barrier but the issue Max has with George is not the fact that he pushed for the penalty. It is the 2-faced nature regarding it. He should have been upfront (towards the media?) that he was pushing for the penalty. Basically he said towards the dutch journalist he cannot stand 2-faced people and that nature makes him lose respect for them.
The difference between the Max/Lando situation and the Max/George situation is the public versus private intent: iow George’s attitude during the post-quali interview versus his behaviour in the Steward’s room.
I think the worst part of the penalty discussion is that often times as fans we don't know what penalty aligns with the given offence. Having not seen a speeding under a double yellow in a while, or because it was stroll and I didn't care my first reaction to speeding under a yellow was what kind of penalties do they give for that? I guess I was expecting a 5 or 10 second penalty, and was shocked by the stop and go. So I think a big part of communicating to the fans is knowing what kind of penalties go with what kind of issues, but there is very little information about that without diving into the depths of rule books... Even then its hard to find.
Thing is, we do have previous offences and we do know the penalties that were applied. The last 3 times someone has sped under double yellows, it's been the exact same penalty it was applied to Lando today. Latifi and Mazepin in Austria '21 and Kimi in Spa '17. All three of them were given a 10 second stop and go. So, we do in fact know what penalty to expect, and so do the drivers and teams.
Dude it's not just fans... Even the official commentators are buttering lando over this without an ounce of understanding as to what has been the outcome in the past
@@dioseolo yeah, but my point is did you remember exactly what it was without looking it up? Most people aren't going to remember a penalty from 4 years unless it was their favorite driver. Therefore most fans, not all, but most had no idea how severe of an offence it was.
22:43 it didn’t just cost Lando points for the constructors championship but also for his fight for second place in the drivers championship with Charles.
Bernie Collins said at the end of the Sky coverage that stewards have recommended penalties for each infraction and both Lando and Lewis got what was recommended, with Lewis getting the more severe pitlane speeding penalty recommended for breaking the speed limit by a greater amount. Of course that doesn't explain a lot of the other nonsense this weekend but apparently those two penalties were by the book.
As much as it pains me as a McLaren fan, it’s an entirely fair penalty. It’s a penalty on safety grounds. Penalties on safety grounds have always been much much harsher than for racing incidents. I think where the issue has arisen here (apart from just simply the increasing polarisation we see in F1 these days as in the whole world) is that the 10 second stop go has become a much much rarer penalty. We are used to these 5 or 10 second time penalties for track infringements or grid drops but when I first watched F1, the 10 sec stop go was all we used to see before the black flag. They also never used to the race killers because the fields used to spread out so much more than they do now. It sucks big time but it’s totally the right decision and penalty.
The FIA though were totally effed though because they screwed up the race by not recognising/seeing/dealing with the clear debris on track. It needed an immediate VSC, maybe divert through the pit lane whilst a marshall retrieves the mirror and then restart the race. That would have taken 1 lap if they weren’t so totally incompetent.
What's lacking was how slow race control was to VSC/SC the circuit to get rid of the wing mirror on the straight. It took someone to run over it as well as suffer punctures (regardless if it's related) for them to neutralize the race.
George being the president of the GPDA is like a kid being a class president and abusing the position for his own benefit while putting airs of being a model student.
really getting into the podcasts this year, keep it up (sadly it's now 00:45)
The echo on Tommy's mic when he's unloading makes it sound like he's giving an epic speech a la MLK Jr.
I want to give a shoutout to the race broadcast dirtection. Like very well done. Good PIPs (picture in picture) good camera work. relevant shots and replays. We usualy shit talk them when its bad but we need to appriciate when its good.
my issue with the penalty for Lando, is that if it was so clear, why did it take around 15 minutes and 10+ laps, including pitstops and 2 safety cars before finally handing it out with 13 laps left and everyone bunched up - no reason for such a delay
Exactly, it completely screwed over Lando penalizing him that late.
These things shouldn’t take 1/5th of the race to decide.
I do think it's the FIA screwing around with the constructor championship. Since they couldn't get the Max vs. Lando, they are now McLaren vs. Ferrari.
Easy to comprehend. It's because of all the other crashes and shoves and things, like Stroll and Albon and Hamilton came in as things to look at first.
@@MegaDarkness5000nah it's probably just good ol incompetence tbh.
If safety is paramount, penalties for not lifting under double-waved yellows need to be harsh.
Yep and vsc should be put into effect immediately
I guess so but still I don't know why it took them so long to give the penalty to Lando and also why have double yellows when no marshalls or cars are in the middle of the track
If safety is paramount, officials should be trained to immediately recognize an unsafe situation.
@@foxyfoxington2651 hard when they get fired every other race
As a Lando fan, it's a fair penalty but my problem is how long it took. Why did it take almost 11 laps to give that penalty.
It feels like with most of the decisions in the race they just waited until it would actually do the most damage to someone’s race or the integrity of the sport.
The FIA is chronically slow when making decisions.
im a norris fan, but 10 second stop/go penalties have been given for this before
Was really good to see Zhou get some points, always good to spread them out a bit
I'm a Lando fan, and I think the penalty was fair enough for exactly the reasons you have said. However I think Matt's point about the extent to which other drivers slow is a good one. If we are saying that this is a matter of safety and you can't mess around with it, is coming off the throttle for a second really making a huge difference at these speeds. Maybe a specific speed limit in yellow flags, or a VSC type thing but only for part of the track needs to be looked at, as I don't think the extent to which drivers lift makes them signfiicantly safer than going full throttle.
31:34 That is incorrect, Ferrari and McLaren are even on wins with 5 each.
37:07 The difference being everyone agrees that was a penalty whereas Russel's complaint was bullshit.
I think Max doesn't mind when people complain, since indeed he does it himself, only when they do it unfairly.
Race director was going for one thing and one thing only. Absolute cinema.
Fr because if they got rid of the debris earlier sainz wouldn’t get a puncture and Lando wouldn’t get a penalty. This is pure gold for Netflix
@@McLaren_fan_04 was about to ask if the Race director is the Netflix director for 2025.
I was waiting for this, refreshed it and there it was! Now I can't go to bed 😂..
Lando literally false started on a rainy track with marshalls trying to remove a stricken car and didn't get shit. But he gets obliterated for the double yellows with a 10sec s&g. These rules are fucking BAFFLING beyond words bro. And then Max literally getting a penalty for something that has only ever gotten a penalty like 1 singular time ever in the entire sport that was a bullshit call then and even worse now.
Both were fair.
In Brazil there’s no penalty or rule for that situation. And Sainz didn’t get penalized for doing the same thing in Monza.
And ignoring double yellow flags is historically a 10s stop go.
@@paperplane-db8qfnah fam... Just because there is no precedent they have to punish an event of that caliber. There were less disruptive versions of what Lando did with much harsher punishments on the books. So it was absolutely disgusting that he only got a monetary penalty.
Uk it’s going to be a banger when Matt and Tommy post 1hr + pod
the point is that GR says that it wasn't too bad in front of the camera and press, but changes his tune when at the stewards. If GR was the same before camera as he was in the stewardsroom MV would have accepted it. It's about being a different person
As a race Marshall myself speeding under yellow should be punished like that. Now lando will never do this again
I’m typing this before watching the full video, so sorry if this does get brought up
But why did the Ferrari who lapped Bottas not get a penalty? You’re not allowed to overtake a car under yellow flag conditions for any reason, unless they are involved in the incident which was causing the yellow flag, which Bottas wasn’t. This included lapping someone. By lapping Bottas, Leclerc (I believe) was ignoring double waved yellows, same as Norris did
The fact that max saw the yellow flag is insane it remind me of the interview with newey where newey said that some of the elite driver have spare mental capacity ! We can clearly see that Norris doesn't have that and that max is goated
49:52 so apparently, looking at the FIA document about his "dangerous driving", he spun on his own, and then his clutch died right when he was trying to spin it back to join the queue
If Ocon had stayed for the last race Alpine would have blocked him doing the Haas open test afterward. By terminating his contract now Ocon can do the test and start working with his new team and Alpine can get Doohan some seat time in advance of next season.
I want to see the onboard of the other 15/16 drivers left in the race during the double-waived yellow. I have no confidence that all of them lifted. If you're going to give Lando that penalty, then it needs to be handed out to everyone else who didn't lift during the double-waived yellow.
Trust me, lando wouldn't have gotten it either of Max hadn't noticed
The ferrari did not lift all its so annoying
@@Ibukun_1 Leclerc braked most of all out those that encountered it as a double yellow (only the top5 and Bottas did). Sainz did take the piss a bit more but at least he showed that he KNEW the double waved were there, something Lando didnt and that is why he got hammered.
Speeding in the pit lane is a 5 sec penalty.....
@@jamesacusar5661speeding in the pits is 5 seconds if it's minimal. Ie 1 km/hr or so. Which is like 1% over.
Lewis was 12.5km/hr over. And sustained that for a second. 16% over the speed limit.
It's baffling how one day ignoring flags/lights is a 5k penalty and the next it's a 10s stop and go. Yes, that start in brazil should have been a stop and go too.
It’s not about the penalty, it’s about the way George was trying to get Max a penalty, that is what Max bothered.
I think the penalties were the best they've ever been. Normally I disagree with many of the rulings, but this time most of them made perfect sense.
Only now they were applied to British drivers, so no wonder the British are mad.
re: slowing down for double waved yellow... Only the top 5 plus Bottas encountered it. Leclerc was the most polite of all, and Sainz did the barest of minimums, but all lifted except Norris.
There is a difference, pointing out to a breach, vs kicking and screaming, crying and begging for other to get penalised, and I can fully see George going to extreme lows to get Max the penalty.
Max: I've been to the stewards many times. And I've never seen someone trying to screw someone over that hard. And then for me, I lost all respect.
George Russell is such a faker
Check the telemetry during Qualifying, or watch Peter Windsor’s podcast, and you will find that Max let Fernando by before the curve and Fernando slows to 129 kph at that curve. Max was nailed for driving too slowly at 167 kph, nearly 40 kph faster, likely in response to Fernando’s hard braking. Could it be that George saw what was going on (which apparently was in the Stewards’ report saying George had visibility of the situation in front of him) and basically kept his speed because he wanted to draw that penalty on Max? Being the posh, whiny jerk George is, it wouldn’t surprise non-George fans.
Nothing's more certain than an F1 driver wanting to get a competing driver into trouble with the headmaster, that's for sure. But heh, Max is an expert at it as was on display during the race.
@@sbGOM so Max created the situation where double yellows were flown. and he made sure Norris didn't slow down. are you stupid?
Max saying Lando didn't slow down is way different than George saying things were fine to the media then trying to lawyer a penalty in the stewards room to get pole
Zhou smashed it, but dont forget what Alonso did, considering what he went through.
I was waiting for this review as soon as the race finished
I heard James Vowles cancelled his next trip to Poundland for superglue after seeing there was no way that wing mirror was going back on.
46:22 Didn't Ocon want the deal that allows him to do Hass test after Abu Dhabi in exchange for Doohan in the race?
Yes, he made a deal with Briatore to allow him to do the Haas post season test in exchange for giving up his place in the final race to Doohan. Apparently the team principal wasn’t even informed because he was blindsided by the press asking him about it. Appreciate that this podcast is uploaded fast, so these details might not have emerged at the time it was recorded.
Yes, Matt is all vibes here. Haas & Alpine just did a transaction: Ocon gets to do the test, Doohan the race. Ocon’s contract surely would’ve allowed him to decline.
Is it really surprising the Russell is a weasel in the stewards room? I'm not sure anyone whines more on the radio than George.
I can definitely see him being a snivelling little two faced rat irl who just puts on a front for the media but I'm sure a lot of top athletes are like that
From Max's interview it genuinely felt like George spewed some real whiny sh*t in that room, much more than on the radio. Max doesn't speak BS, and I haven't seen him this disappointed with anyone for a long time, even in 2021 he was not this scathing for Lewis.
And then goes and does the same whining on the radio about Lando and the yellow flag. It's ridiculous that they all are this whiny
@@thecompanioncube4211
Because Max gets Horner to do his whining for him. And Max is incredibly thin skinned. That’s been obvious for years.
All it would of taken is probably George saying that Max did hinder George’s lap and Max would’ve thrown a tantrum.
I want to see him turn up the press conference in a wig and fully embrace the Karen meme he’s creating for himself.
I had to come to TH-cam just to watch the end of the video and see where it cut. I see you've kept the craziness for audio listeners only 😂
We need a petition to make you guys race directors / stewards
initially I was very confused about the penalty but after ... yeah seems fair. You can't just go through double yellows like that. As an example even a youtube "supergt" he was competing on Nurburgring he ignore double yellows (did not see them I don't think or saw it too late) and got disqualified for it. So you don't mess with safety
In my mind the infuriating part with the Lando penalty is how long the stewards sat on their ass to give it. Especially with how much pace he had in that car and since its such a clear cut penalty how can it be ok to wait until the last 10-15 laps to finally decide on it 😅
"Kimi" Zhou "Leave me alone, I know what I am doing".
Have you thought of adding a section for "stewards biggest surprise"?
Always here for a Tommy's Tasty Tirade!
George is a baby. And Lewis checked out long ago. I never thought I would hear a team tell their 7x World champion to keep on racing and we aren’t going to retire the car early for no reason.
Happened multiple times over the last years
Yeah agree, I've never been a huge Hamilton fan but can sure appreciate his pace when he was on top. But boy, he looks like a compelte sook this year
That's just a dumb take, they wanted to do his pen first so it wouldn't hop over to Abu Dhabi and result in a 5+ grid drop
After that they asked if he still wanted to retire and Lewis kept on going...
If the referee is the topic, the referee did wrong.
Interesting take on ZHOU. When he came into F1 that car was good for about 6-8 races. As the car declined in performance zhou never really understood how to make the car better since he never got the experience enough to know what a good car feels like. That first few races with the good alpha he was still feeling it out in F1. That’s why when the car was at its lowest this summer he seems so hopeless.
Listened to every podcast this year best f1 content on the internet !!!!
The right penalty? Yes.
Should the situation have arisen? No.
Double yellow flags mean you must slow down and be prepared to stop as EVERY racing driver knows. Kimi Raikkonen had the same penalty for the exact same thing in Belgium so it was always gonna happen to Lando here. However, the FIA didn’t help the situation by not neutralising the race when they should’ve done, which is an offence that they keep on committing and I have complained about time and time again, and now look what happened. We’re lucky none of those glass shards caused injury to anybody. The FIA were a disgrace before this race. But they have sank to a new low in Qatar.
At least there was a shining light in the fact that Zhou Guanyu scored 4 points for Sauber and deservedly so.
If the FIA neutralised the race it likely would not have changed Lando's situation.
@@waynec3563 WDYM? If FIA had neutralised the race when the mirror was still in one piece, one lap of VSC would've been enough to pick it up and the double yellows would've never happened.
@@Trakkson Lando would likely have arrived at the scene with the double-waved yellows, and before the VSC was called.
And he would still have failed to slow down for the flags.
The thing to remember about Lawson, is that he hasn't done any significant tyre-testing. Vegas was low-grip + plus cold temperatures, meaning he quickly grained the tyres and couldn't get them into the window. Qatar is high abrasion, so the setups are designed to put less energy into the tyres but he still got a SQ3 and was unlucky at the start because he got pinched on the wrong line. In quali his lap was disrupted, but still close enough to Tsunoda. RB was pretty rubbish at Qatar last season as well because they have a fundamental issue with tyre condition and overheating (which is probably why they were so good at Brazil in the wet). Plus RB's genius strategy department putting both Yuki and Liam on softs with 10-15 laps to go made any attempt for either driver to get into the points fruitless.
He's not ready for Red Bull, that would be clear even if he got points in every race and was smashing Yuki. What happened to giving drivers a (proper) season to develop before throwing them in the deep end?
I guess the new race director heard people saying he wasn't harsh enough last weeks and took it personally.
That 1 place grid penalty was extremely personal 🗿
hes like you think masi was wild? hold my beer!
Reason for Ocon & Jack Swap: This allows Esteban to be released to Haas to drive in the post-season test.
To let us guys discuss about bad decisions is exactly the point they want to achieve with the bad decisions. Fia nowdays is just a money making machine, they not only care about the rules of racing, but also about generating controversies that promotes the sport. Sadly that’s the reality.
On the stop/Go, I’m 100% with Tommy and Matt. Safety rules broken should be punished harshly. What I don’t get is not knowing if others broke that rule also. It should be easy. When Max called it out GP knew right away, likely looking at the data, Lando didn’t lift. FIA and stewards should have data on the spot to see who did/didn’t lift.
Penalty for Lando was fair, but considering it was a slam dunk penalty, it took way too long for the FIA to apply it.
Safety infringements - 5 sec Stop and go plus 4 points on your license. (3x safety infringement = race ban)
Sporting infringements - drive through
Done.
No more 1 place, 3 place, 5 sec, 10 sec, community service yadayada.
No. Five seconds is way too low. What hit Norris is he got it _after_ the race restarted, meaning the field was bunched together and thus passed him while he served. The penalty was set to 10 seconds stop and go because people profited from safety infringements.
Drive-throughs are better than +10 seconds or +5 seconds. But we need to have better rules for passing. Right now they are terrible because they have been changed too often because people do not want Max to win.