Touring Bikes are NOT Gravel Bikes
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ส.ค. 2019
- Are touring bikes low trail? Are gravel bikes remarketed touring bikes? Answering questions and debunking myths and misconceptions about touring bikes.
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Great video, Russ! We're really excited to have the PLP fam using Bike Insights. Gravel bikes, in particular, are such an interesting new category of bike. We've watched them grow from an oddball offshoot of touring/cyclocross/monstercross into the #1 most-popular category on our site by a good margin.
Fun fact: bikes on our site are assigned a category manually and periodically we analyze a range of attributes to validate those choices. Lots of gray areas but some of the attributes you talk about in the vid are precisely that we use to make a final determination. It always pays to check the geometry as well as the bike company's marketing, especially when considering how these figures can change based on the size of bike!
Eli The Iceman I know the feeling. A lot of questionable purchases lead us to make this website 😂
Just came here to say the bikeinsights site is great. Been pushing it on all my bike friends.
Thanks for introducing me to this very good new site. This will help me to choose which bike to get as I'm having a bit of trouble figuring out which frame will work for me.
@@sethm.5666 Thanks Seth! We really appreciate the word of mouth.
@@VietnamEliThanks for the feedback, Eli. We think it depends on what you're trying to compare. If your primary concern is comparing size and fit (before components are added), aligning by bottom bracket is ideal. If you want to look at bottom bracket height, play with different wheel options, and eyeball standover, we like aligning by the ground.
If there's enough demand maybe we could give you the option of choosing your default setting in the bike-on-bike compare. Let us know what you think.
People need to stop getting so caught up in “is my bike a gravel this, allroad that, touring the next thing, etc”
Just ride bikes, it’s the simplest thing.
Find a bike, go ride. Wanna go camping as well? Cool strap your bag on... wanna go racing? F*ck it! Go for it.
It's about a li'l bit better performance for each kind of bike design.
The differences are quite obvious when compared.
Yes, any bike can do everything but it is less good compared to the specific kind. Customization it is.
Is there a touring test?
I see what you did there 😂
Lmao. Nice
Haaa
Just scored a LHT ( I think Surly is discontinuing) and pick it up Wednesday. I'm 51 now and I'm no longer interested in speed or smashing trails. I was looking for a do-it-all, go-anywhere, ride long and be comfortable while doing it bike. The LHT seemed to check all the boxes for me needs. Cheers - love your channel PLP.
You will love it. I am 72 and do everything from a Sprint Triathlon to local rail trails and grassy paths and trails on mine.
Really enjoying the bike whisperer format, please keep it up!
Interesting stuff and great to know too! Thanks for your insight, this helps translate numbers I don't know much about.
Love this Bike Whisperer format. 👌🏼
Have you thought about broadcasting some of your 45 minute sessions Russ....with the other end’s permission of course?
Superb analysis! Learned so much!
I suspect that the long chainstays on a touring bike are actually to bring the rear wheel further out so that the panniers can be mounted more in front of the rear wheel to ensure stability, but still give enough heel clearance. It's certainly possible to mount panniers on a road bike with short chainstays behind the rear wheel to give adequate heel clearance but this will make the bike unstable.
I’m a total geek on this stuff. Thanks
Really enjoyed that. Just bought a Diverge 1x, so particularly interesting. Thx!
Bike insight is great resource. Thanks for sharing.
This is getting to be way too much. When I was a kid I had a bike my dad got for me, and I used it for everything. Now theres gravel, cx, touring, adventure, etc etc. Granted it is intersting to see the chainstay is longer, etc.
Life is about variety and nuance :)
A great discussion. I've bookmarked Bike Insights.
Nice video, great information.
This taught me a lot, thank you.
Thanks for these videos , I have been confused by the geometry measurements of bikes but content like yours is helping me become a more informed bike shopper. As a person with a really tall PBH I find bikes often feel really unstable for me and I feel very perched atop them so I am hoping to pick up a tourer with a low BB height / large BB drop number to sink me down into the bike more and then use this for all types of riding. Ive found putting a smaller wheel size like a 26 into a 27.5 frame really helps this too although pedal strike can become an issue depending where you ride. Its funny that the longest wheelbase bike I have , a hardtail is in fact the most maneuverable by far even though it is much longer by 10cm than the other bikes but its chainstays are very short so I reckon shorter chainstays influence handling way more than wheelbase lenght.
Interesting comparison. Take a look at the Kona Sutra and Sutra LTD, it really blurs this line.
To complete the trifecta: rando bikes have low trail (
Thanks Russ. Nice video and it’s easy to see how much you truly enjoy this stuff. I pretty well understand how different geometries relate but I’m not getting using the “overall” category on the flavor wheel . If it is jumpy rear and stable front I don’t see how the wheel guides you to where on the overall. Help me out here please. Thanks again for another great video.
Thank you, I own a Diverge and I'm using it to tour the California coast
I have the Specialized AWOL Comp. I bought it as a touring bike...it does that job well....but I have started to use it for my bicycle courier work, its 10/52 cassette 1x11set-up makes it a zip-along a bike. I can't get over how versatile this bike is
Hi Russ great videos you have,I have the SCOTT sub 10 Gates belt drive 8 speed bike great bike for riding around town,I thinks it`s good for lite touring but it doesn`t have a place for a front rack,all in all it`s a great bike to ride.Do you like the Gates carbon belts for touring bikes?
Good video. A useful comparison for me would be between touring bikes and gravel bikes designed more for bikepacking than gravel racing. I built up a Lynskey Backroad (touring frame) to be suitable for both touring and gravel riding, as well as commuting and all purpose fun riding (46/30 crankset, 11-34 cassette, Jones H-Loop handlebar, Rodeo Labs Spork fork, 40 mm Donnelly X'Plor tires). I used it recently on the ACA Black Hills tour and it performed well, and I enjoy commuting to work on it (23 miles round trip, bike paths and roads) but it's still an experiment.
I appreciate the video and I think it led me to what I would like is not a gravel race or event bike. I want a touring bike with components on it that can handle gravel two track roads. Adventure bike? Versatile touring bike? Not sure what to call it.... the Disc Trucker rebuild continues!
Awesome video to explain bike geometry to a newbie like me. 😀 Can I ask what would be a baseline model/geometry for a climbing bike?
My Salsa Marrakesh has adjustable dropouts that let it get long when loaded up and nice and tight when you're gravel grinding. 700c 45mm riddler's (barely) fit under fenders too!
I use my LHT for touring as well as gravel road riding
Same
Great stuff Russ!! Thanks.
I just can’t wrap my mind around the notion of some people to resist a super diverse bike industry. This is a blessing, embrace it. Or not. Great video!
Very informative video. Got me curious on the geometry of my 29er MTB. Current trail is vey high at 77mm. Based on my computations, if I use a 650b wheels with 38c tires, trail will decrease from 77mm to 66mm. This bike should be a good hybrid MTB/ touring/ "gravel bike" by just having three sets of wheels and switching to a rigid fork. Seat stay is 44.5cm. What do you think?
Very interesting. I've got 2 beloved bikes, steel road bike, and aluminum track. Steel has generous fork rake and fairly steep head angle. Track bike has steep head angle, 50mm fork offset, and much longer top tube. They handle the same- nervous! Curious how you could arrive at the same handling with such different approaches. The smoothness of ride is night and day though. That 40 year old steel classic was a stiff bike in it's era but the aluminum track gets up and moves when you stand on the cranks!
That was awesome! I had no idea you did consulting and I wish I’d known that before I just picked up my new Ogre. Not that it’s bad or anything but I might have found something better...
I live in Vermont and can tell you my Trek 520 touring bike is not a gravel bike in anyway shape or form. If I'm doing a lot of gravel I would much be more likely to take my mountain bike. Only because I just have the two bikes in my stable. Thanks for a very informative video. Just for a side note. Just road from Richford to St Albans on the Missisquoi Valley Railtrail. Always an enjoyable ride. Take care and safe cycling, Al
Great analysis!
Great deep dive.
Great explanation. Thank you.
Outstanding video!
Can a x bike be y bike? This reminds me of another question: Is everything art? To which, in my art school days, I used to answer, "yes-but not all art is good art."
Around here the comparison is between cyclo-cross bikes and gravel bikes. Some years ago we had a CX boom (before the fat bike boom which is almost over now). People bought cyclo-cross bikes for commuting and all-road cycling because there wasn't a better all-rounder option available. I believe over 99.99% of those cyclo-cross bikes have never been in a cyclo-cross race as we have hardly any CX races... I think gravel bikes could be defined as cyclo-cross bikes that are optimized for everything other than racing CX.
Where did you get these software guides from? I want to measure my bike to see how it is with my custom build road come to be.
So here's a question: Are gravel bikes the ultimate do it all bike, or the best possible compromise? I have a Battaglin and Pinerallo road bike, a Dawes Galaxy Ultra touring bike with 853 frame and XTR derailiers + XT hubs, and a 'retro' hard tail mountain bike with fairly fast rolling tyres (Schwalbe land cruiser 2"). My friend is trying to encourage me to sell them all and get a gravel bike with two different wheelsets, road and off road. A good idea in theory. But I like touring and I like to do my grocery shopping every weekend on the touring bike, sometimes it is loaded heavy. I cannot see the skinny aluminium seat stays of a gravel bike putting up with this? I find that for 80% off road riding my mountainbike, though heavier, is a dream, it glides over terrain, and again is built a lot stronger - I only have to see my friends arms being vibrated to kingdom come to question why I'd get rid of my front suspension! Furthermore, Gravel bikes are beautiful, if I went and spent a load of money on a bike (they look like beautiful road bikes), the last thing I want to do is ride it through mud and sand, I'd put 25mm tyres on and keep it for road riding, and of course keep all my other bikes too.
So I'm not convinced. I think I might get an offroad wheel set for my touring bike for light 50:50 off road riding - the mudguards are easily removable. Keep the built for purpose mountain bike. Stick with the Battaglin and Pinerello for the road. And a proper 853 touring bike for load carrying. Am I wrong?
Surly ruined the disc trucker with their new model, it's basically just another damn gravel bike, i'm so sick of these companies chasing these fads.
Us touring bike owners need stickers that say not a gravel bike haha
I've tried gravel bikes, the bottom bracket height is the most obvious difference for me.
Touring bikes are much lower to the ground, making standing astride the cross bar much less painful!
Personally I don't have the means or justification to have another bike in my garage. No doubt, a gravel bike would be a better choice in some instances. However, I ride on gravel all the time with my trucker. It all depends on how well packed the road is. For rough roads and single track I grab my mountain bike.
Great info! I didn't know about those websites! I've been looking for an around town (city) bike that I can take on some mild bike packing trips. I was thinking along the lines of a Surly Straggler or Midnight Special. Any input? My daily pavement bike is a Gary Fisher Triton track frame single speed.
Yes, the differences between a World Cup DH bike and a bike from the TDF peloton are huge and make either bike impractical in the others discipline. However, touring, gravel and ‘cross bikes are very versatile and are capable of a far greater range of activities and with decent competence than the more tightly focused bikes. Issues like the riders height and weight, wheel and tyre size and bottom bracket height all make differences to how a bike rides, but riders can compensate for many compromises.
I ride a Trucker and a Topstone and would happily use either in the others role. Unless riding gravel competitively, stop worrying and ride.
My trucker with the schwalbe marathon mondials can handle pretty much any gravel or trail.
Mondials are very slow
@@jpizzato Since when do you race a touring bike?
@@phxrsx not race but save energy and make the bike more fun, the Marathon Mondials sucks the life out of you if you run lower pressures and is hard as a rock if you run it with high pressure,it might be very durable and bullet proof but in my experience is too slow and hard.
I have a Bianchi Volpe touring bike would you recommend it. I had a couple heart issues so not sure touring is in the cards but dreaming again.
Rail trails on touring bikes with hybrid tires is awesome. I am 72 and did 15 miles on a rail trail. Winding through car free tree lined venues is very relaxing. Plus: No challenging hills on rail trails because trains like flat routes.
Can we download the flavor wheel somewhere?
Take a screenshot.
The Marin Lombard I have is a bit confusing. It was part of their "Urban" line up. So I guess its a commuter bike, but with cyclocross-ish geometry, but also kinda a hybrid with drop bars. I guess thats why Marin just calls some of theirs "Beyond Road" since its not a gravel bike right now as I have gatorskin tires on it. Would changing the tires make it gravel? Urban adventure bike? IDK! Whatever, its just a bike, it gets me where I need to go, its fun.
Thinking of doing a video that looks beyond categories and more geometries vs use types. Easy to get hung up on the names.
Could you explain the “overall” section of your wheel? How does that work?
Would recommend watching this video. Bike Geometry Explained: The Bicycle Flavor Wheel! th-cam.com/video/l7D1XhoZ90E/w-d-xo.html
Can I use a Touring bike, eg. Trek 520 disc, but with a bikepacking setup.. removing the racks
I am looking to do the same thing and would love to hear a someone’s response with experience on the topic...
I love your color wheel!
I have a 26 LHT and a 700c soma saga as well as a claris salsa Vaya= the Vaya is most nimbel and the LHT the toughest but by far the Saga is the prettyest.
So is this kind of a "Subaru Outback vs. WRX STI" kind of deal?
Great video, really good content. The warbird is marketed as a gravel racing bike, not touring like the Surley LHT. I don’t think you can put a rear rack on the Warbird. A Vaya, Journeyman or even the Felt Broam would be a cool comparison to the LHT. But again, love the content of your videos.
I know it's a gravel race bike. Just trying to respond to the "gravel bikes are just touring bikes" people. That said, you CAN put a rear rack and front low riders on a Warbird.
True that!! Thanks for the response!!
I would love a comparison between a Kona Sutra and a Trek 520.
This is pure genius! I’ve never understood bicycle geometry very well. The flavor wheel really makes it easy to understand. One question, you don’t get into stack or reach much. Wouldn’t a touring bike be more upright and a gravel race bike be less so? Those matter to me because I’m more of an endurance rider than a racer so I like to sit more upright. I guess some of that you can alter with spacers and your stem choices though.
ytesb1 The rougher the trails you want to ride, the higher and wider you want your bars. Wide bars also help controlling heavy loaded up bikes. Modern dirt drop bars are designed to be ridden primarily IN THE HOOKS. That’s where you have the most steering control, the most stability and the most leverage braking. Forget riding on the hoods and tops except for pedaling out of the saddle, stretching and changing positions once in awhile. For the rough stuff you gotta be IN THE HOOKS!!Forget about roadie fit rules! The idea is to get away from paved roads. At least IMO, roads are to be tolerated to get to more trails and that’s all they’re good for! Get comfy and in a good position to lay down power and maintain traction. The HOOKS ARE WHERE ITS AT! Youll feel way more comfortable, stable and secure higher up and further back on the bike when descending steep and rough trail.
I suggest starting with tops of bars about level with the saddle.
I use 52cm Nitto Dirt Drops and a ‘limp dick’ stem, a VO Cigne stem to get me up there. ‘LD’ stems look better than a ton of spacers and a traditional high rise stem. But looks don’t matter, function does matter! I never look at my bike while riding it! I ride pretty technical trail on this set up. I go most places I would on an mtb, just slower down hills usually. If it gets too sketchy Ill get off and walk. But thats rare. I love technical riding,singletrack,roots and rocks. The more you get used to riding IN THOSE HOOKS, the higher you’ll want your bars. DON’T RUSH to cut your fork steerer! Experiment with different set ups to find what you like. You may have to buy several stems and h’bars.
I ride a drop bar mtb as well. Those dirt drops are as wide as the riser bars on my full suspension!
Didnt I tell you? Concentrate on RIDING IN THE HOOKS!!Haha!
If you can get a Dutch Gazelle Popular Touring bike for review, it would be awesome!
Excuse me sir my english skills are not the best, especially when it comes to understund tecnical discussions. I was about to buy a gravel bike for touring: the marin nicasio+. I understood that there is a big difference between the two types but I didnt get if you say that gravel bikes are not good for touring. Do you suggest me to root for other bikes?
If you want to do 4 pannier touring, get a touring bike. If you want to do lightweight rackless touring, gravel bikes can do that.
what type of bike is best suited for urban commuting? (that has flat handlebars, fenders and racks)
Hi, i have the giant escape 2, just changed all the drivetrain to alivio and put on the redshift stem and seatpost, feels great. Thanks to the video i now know it is stable and chill.
Surly Long haul trucker
Trek Dual Sport Gen5 or Bombtrack Munroe AL (oops, noticed you asked for fenders and racks but you can add those).
Good vid. But maybe we should split here between road and off-road touring bikes. The surly LHT is clearly a road bike, designed for months on the saddle. Off-road touring bikes are much more similar to gravel bikes, and I think that's where people get lost. Like are the AWOL, Sutras etc gravel or touring? Their makers even do different versions with the same frame with really different purpose
Sure. Next topic might be gravel race vs gravel adventure bikes.
I own an Surly LHT and a Salsa Fargo I can say that they are 2 completely different bikes, I love them both but the Surly LHT in my believe is the best bike ever made if you can only have one bike, if you can afford to have more bikes, well lucky you!
Love the nerdy format! I have a touring bike and a gravel bike in my living room as I write, and I agree that they're not the same. But they're not opposites, either. If you put all bikes on a spectrum, with fully suspended mountain bikes on one end, and crazy lightweight racing road bikes on the other end, both gravel and touring bikes would fall pretty close to dead center. (They're both the bicycling equivalent of cross-country skiing, with gravel biking being more akin to telemarking, and touring bikes more akin to, well, touring hut to hut.) The big difference is what you want to do: go kind of fast on varied terrain on a day trip, or bring all your stuff with you while you go on a three-week-long sightseeing ride? I love both.
Very cool software.
Great video, what happened on the Surly trail going from 67 to 64 in the comparison
I have to double check but it might have been diff model years.
@@PathLessPedaledTV The first one was a 2016, then the comparison page you were on 2018
That wheel is super cool.
What are your thoughts on the specialized Awol?
Great touring bike. On the heavy side. No longer made.
I'm going to be wearing out this Bike Insights web site
LOL the server is smoking!
What's that website you used again?
BikeInsights
What do you think 🤔 of an Italian road bike like mines that has approximate front trail of 76.2”mm (High Trail) and an approximate chain stay measurement of 355.6mm (Very Short)???? It’s a Debernardi bike.
Sounds fun. Not a touring bike or gravel bike in terms of geometry.
@@PathLessPedaledTV Besides a gravel or touring bike, how would you perceive it as what type of bike is it really? A Racing Bike??? It’s designed for in terms of custom built from scratch for the long haul with a 3x10 setup (30 Speed). I want to be able to climb with ease, it has good speed, comfortable with less shock. It has a Specialized Cobble Gobbler seat post with a builtin one inch travel elastomer. Under the drop bar tape are gels for shock absorption towards my hands and arms. Tires are Continental 4 Seasons for wet and dry conditions. Comfortable saddle by WTB Rocket Titanium. It weighs around 21 pounds minus the accessories. Front and rear lights for night time rides. I have done about 38 miles in one day with this bike.
evelasq1 I guess it’s a road bike? Hard to say without seeing it. The chainstay measurement seems really extreme. Usually it is 4xx. The wheel would be right under the saddle.
Path Less Pedaled The axle is not under the saddle. It’s a 56cm Center to Center Italian Road Bike. The seat stay does go all the way up to the top seat tube. If you have an email than I could shoot some photos of it. The materials used to build this bike frame from the De Bernardi bike factory is a Columbus 7000 Zonal Aluminum with a Carbon Fiber seat stay and Carbon Fiber/Aluminum Steering fork. Let me know your email 📧.
I feel like the LHT is on the ultra stable end of the touring bike spectrum to begin with and was maybe a bad comparison bike especially to a Diverge. But if you compared some of those shorter stay touring bikes to the longer stay gravel bikes, the differences get super slim. Especially if you are a novice rider; it would take a long time to discern the difference in ride.
It is on the ultra stable end but has been the benchmark touring bike and one of the most popular touring bikes of the last decade.
Woah, that looks like a cool site!
Great video! One perspective I've recently started favoring is the inverse - that gravel bikes can (potentially) make excellent touring bikes. Especially the more stable, less race focused gravel bikes. Wider tire clearance, more all road oriented, stable wheelbase - all of this lends pretty well to touring, especially mixed terrain touring.
My all around riding bike is a salsa vaya gravel bike. My friend wants to do some bike packing down the coast. Will my gravel bike do the job, or should I look at a touring bike?
Should be fine. We tour on “gravel” bikes all the time.
Hey Aaron. I've only ridden the Vaya for half a mile, but I always thought it was launched and marketed as a touring bike. Though to me, all bikes are for touring on. It's just a question of whether they can carry the load you need. And from what you say, I think the Vaya will have no trouble for what you describe...
i know you haven't tested tested the Kona Sutra LTD but would you consider that an off road tourer/gravel bike?
bikepacking.com did a full article on that bike so I'd check that out!
Call it an off road gravel tourer. Problem solved! 😄Personally i'd call that thing a do everything bike.
My Thorn Sherpa has 445 chainstays and 46 trail I’ve not compared it to any other tourer
I recently rode the 2021 LA Tourist Race # 1 (an underground gravel race-- 75 miles, 10k feet of climbing) on a Surly Long Haul Trucker. I can attest FIRST HAND that this is not a gravel bike. The hardest obstacle in the event was 4k foot sand / gravel climb over 13 miles. I spent most of that climb in my lowest gear, and still was S I N K I N G into every patch of sand. Impossible to get any momentum. To contrast this, every other (gravel) bike was FLYING through that sand, no prob. Legolas and Gimli might both scale the mountain, but Legolas doesn't leave any footprints in the snow!!
Is that in any way relevant to the average schmuck like me looking to hit the local fire roads or rail trails to get away from cars? What percent of gravel bike riders do you think are looking to do that kind of riding? If you want to say "racing" gravel bike that's fine. But t take a niche corner of a bike type and then disqualify the mainstream use of the bike style can mislead potential buyers.
I rode my Surly LHT 30 miles on a beautiful tree lined rail trail and it was perfect. Friend on a mountain bike couldn't settle in and glide like my Surly and a traditional lighter weight street bike would have gotten hammered. As a Surly rider you know how forgiving they are of less tha ideal road conditions.
Ooo... Charts!
Yes.
Mmm this popcorn is good! Always fun to see facts crush the bitterness in the world. Yum!
Glad you are mentioning Bike Insights again. I forgot about it as a resource. Loving the flavor wheel. It would make a cool T-shirt graphic...hint...hint.
That was really interesting and I'm going to check out the numbers on my new to me vintage bike. Lack of rack mounts but canti's, I thought it might be a CX. I'll leave it all to the numbers! BTW Bike Insights is a really useful tool. Thanks.
Why some videos don´t have subtitles?
Don't know. Waiting for YT to auto create them?
Shhhh my LHT is totally a gravel bike until I can get a job that pays me enough to buy an actual gravel bike haha
What does "trail" mean in the context of this video? How is it measured?
th-cam.com/video/L0Kt-c8fG3M/w-d-xo.html
I think the most important component on a bicycle is the rider. How that rider handles any terrain, on any bike will make the difference.
I keep saying the same thing. Its the operator and their attitude, not the machine. We should all know what Eddy Merckx said!
Why does 'Gravel' always seem to equal 'race'... how about gravel bikepacking (non race), any differences? I think LHT vs. Gravel Race is an apples/Oranges comparison...
Why does racing even come up in a discussion of bikes designed for long distance riding on non-paved surfaces. I mean isn't a gravel bike essentially a touring bike designed for non-asphalt riding longer distances,? Who the heck wants to race touring bikes?
So where’s the line between gravel bikes and bikepacking bikes? Personally ‘racing’ is just one aspect of gravel bikes. The Surly Pack Rat, where does that stand? Is it a ‘grando’ (did you see what I did there?) 😃
Maybe a topic for the next #bikewhisperer episode.
Thanks for your reply 👍
Just tell them racks are the true messia! What is this bikepacking superlightweight trendy rubbish. Racks people, racks!
also if gravel bikes are retooled touring bikes...are hybrid bikes retooled touring bikes?
Everything is a retooled penny farthing.
"You could ride a mountain bike in the Tour de France." I just spent a few days on a mountain bike as my daily driver when my "real" bike was in for repair. Horrible. The idea of even one day on the Tour on such a bike is genuinely painful.
Cobblestones.
Ive put 1.5” slicks on my old 26” MTBs and they really move on pavement. Way too much fun downhills with strong brakes! Problem is you need much bigger gears for those teeny tires. Slicks even work fine on firm, smoother trails. They keep you honest!
Surly seems to think so looking at their latest abomination that is the updated disc trucker, talk about ruining a legend, now the Trek 500 series looks like the closest thing we have...
i want a gravel bmx bike.
Every bmx bike is a gravel bike.
I'm going to say you are a bit of a Salsa fanboy.. :) that's OK we'll are fanboys at some level. Cool video, I'm just surprised at all the geo, I prefer ride/review reports. As always love your channel.
this is the bike nerdiest thing I have ever watched. well played sir.
then again bottom bracket is much lower on warbird, making it more stable?
Warbird is a stable bike compared to other gravel "race" bikes. Wouldn't say it is more stable than a LHT tho.
Bottom Bracket Drop is the distance by which the center of the bottom bracket lies below the level of the rear axle. So, to know BB height you need to know where the rear axle is. The LHT's rear axle is lower than the Warbird's due to the smaller wheels (26" vs. 650B/27.5") and tires, so you would expect less drop. The Warbird BB may be a bit lower, at least on 650B, but not "much lower" than LHT.
Would be interesting what you would come up with if you were to collab with a manufacture 🤔 possible new series??
We wish! Would love to design a bike :)
What about the jones+swb ? 😉
If you ask Jeff Jones a Jones bike is a Jones bike and lives in its own category :)