Last time Su-30MKI engaged UK Royal Air Force Eurofighter "Typhoon" fighter in a mock aerial combat for the first time as part of the Anglo-Indian Exercise "Indradhanush 2007". Six Indian fighters as well as several European "Tornados" participated in the tests. The operational aspects of the exercises involved one-versus-one air combat as well as mixed-mission, multiple-aircraft sorties.
@Maraudershark1 Both X31 were flown at Dryden, but the only remaining plane is now in a german tech museum near Munich. One of the X31 pilots, Rüdiger Knöpfel, is also german.
@TH7596 Ehm, did you ever notice the german flag on the X31's tail? It was a JOINT project between the US and Germany. It's shape, including the wings and canards, was derived from the Eurofighter program and the british EAP prototype. Germany was responible for the flight software, including 3D thrust vectoring. And btw. 1990 is not exactly 30 years ago.
The frequency of the emitter signal (from the enemy aircraft or from ground stations). The F22 is the "receiver" and works as a resonating antenna. I hope it's clear now.
Gripens Radar is also an Ericsson design, and from what I hear it has a tremendous long range resolution able to pick apart the usual tight formations used by US pilots.
Mach 1 is approximately 340 m/s at sea level, which is 761 mph. The actual speed of sound deviates with temperature (as stated above) and altitude; sound slows as the air becomes less dense.
@aquietguy 142 mil for the F22 is pure flyaway cost (without R&D) while 100 mil for an EF is total program cost divided by the number actually built. Total program cost for an F22 is over 300 mil.
Lol I love how everyone is all the sudden an expert in military analysis and an ace pilot who's flown every modern aircraft and knows them all inside and out, and can make accurate and unbiased comparisons about them. It's very impressive.
@Joynson67 There're other planes as well that are made unstable for better maneuverability like Typhoon (F-18 Super hornet, JAS Gripen, at least to an extent) or for stealth(F-117, B-2), and hence are impossible or nearly impossible to fly without computer assistance.
@TH7596 The F22 is not "invisible", it just has a very low radar signature. You don't need afterburners to lock a modern heat seeking missile on your target.
LWF program was a US military aviation program, the US navy was backing the YF-17 not the YF-16, which was in fact being developed for the Air Force not the Navy.
@TH7596 The Eurofighter tech demonstrator 'EAP' flew in 1986 while the general design with delta wings and long coupled canards dates back to the early 70s. I never said the U.S. "took" the design from anyone, they did it TOGETHER. Results from this program were directly used for both EF and F22 programs, especially in terms of flight control systems. There are also Thrust vectoring nozzles for the EF but currently, there is no funding for test flights.
The Eurofighter Project didn't actually begin till 1986, before that only a requirement (ESRD) and a british experimental concept existed (EAP), and the prototype EF didn't fly till 1995 (I saw its first public flight at IAT 95) Its development throughout had been pretty much parallel to the F22, and is still in progress, all its systems are state of the art.
@Burdock007 That 356 mil includes 20+ years of R&D. It atually cost 142 mil to build one. And that's R&D cost spread among the 187 paid for already. Any more after that would go for cost providing we keep the production line going.
Thanks! The J-35 Draken did quite well in the commercial aspects but I cant comprehend why nobody purchased J-37 Viggen. I´m glad the Swede´s decided to manufacture Viggen, instead of the nuclear-carrier J-36!
The new SAAB/ British aerospace Gripen has arrived! A statement from the manufacture is available on SAAB´s official website! This new one got some radar system and electronic equipment that no other multi-role aircraft got!
I think the first stealth plane was a British WW2 bomber. Don't remember the name, but it was made mostly out of wood which had a low radar signature. It was actually invented by accident.
No, in RL. At least, I did read that in a military magazine. What good things has the F22? -Stealth (Gonna be usesless in a few years) -Thrust vectoring (Hasn't more mneuverability than the Euroofighter or the SU-35 though)
And another thing is that the F-22 is not totally invisible to other aircrafts. To lock those amraams to targets you need to use radar and the signal of the F-22's radar is detected by other aircrafts so that they know what direction is the F-22 comming from.
Absolutely. It's not a question of which plane is better, but a question of which plane can fulfill certain duties better. The next step is to combine the strengths of both planes to fly missions most effectively and efficiently. As a team they'll be a real pain in the ass of any enemy.
@aquietguy Actually what I read from somewhere is that REAL cost of one F22 fighter is WAY MORE that 140 million. What I read was that REAL cost of F22 is 350 MILLION DOLLARS EACH! Now thats a lot!
A simple change in the frequency band makes any plane detectable. But it's also a question of it's worth the effort. We'll see in the next years what the answer to stealth will be.
@29Gixxer For the last time(I hope), the raptor hasn't been cancled. We're just buying less. Which could change with the Pak Fa development. And, like every other fighter we have, there will be constant improvement of the raptor. As is now.
@blablubb12345 We have already pay for the 187 planed. So after that, they will sell for production. But it was a privately built, so R&D was added to the final cost. The EF was built by the governments so it wasn't added.
@Maraudershark1 no im saying exactly what you are saying but the x-31 fully built was flown in 1990, i know that it had been tested way before and existed way before what i was saying is that the E/F looks like the x-31 and that the e/f program began in 1985 as for the x-31 the first full functional one that was showcased stable enough to show in airshows was built in 1990 so that meant the x-31 was first than E/F..........thats all im saying and sure id like to see those pics. :)
We usually manufacture our own radarsystem but I dont know what origin the new Gripen radar got? Ericsson have made some excellent radarsystem to our previous fighters the J-35 and J-37!
"two RAF Typhoons deployed to the USA for OEU trails work have been flying against the F-22 at NAS China Lake. There was little suprise that Typhoon, with its world-class agility and high off-boresight missile capability was able to dominate "Within Visual Range" flight.."
No thing is invisible in all EM frequencies. Even the F22 is visible to the naked eye. Thus the plane is visible at least in the 360 to 800 nm range. And I guess it's not the only frequency band the plane can be detected. RCS is very much dependent on the radar frequency used for detection. I don't know how visible the F22 is to PCL systems, but I think it is.
What do you mean if? The Uk has already contrbuted 10% of the money that been spend developing the aircaft and is the sole level 1 partner in the devlopment. BAE systems is one of the companys devloping it. The Uk plans to get 138 of them.
Yeah and they are in fact helping the tranche 3 program with the Saudi deal as said. More upgrades can be added, which is what member nations of the project wanted.
@TH7596 The 2 flags are always there, just smaller and below the vertical stabilizer: htt p://upload .wikimedia.o rg/wikipedia/en/9/92/Rockwell_MBB_X31. jpg
none of the videos I've seen actually showcase the Eurofighter's talents. they merely show the plane cruising around, doing a few twists, etc. does anyone have a GOOD video of this plane? thanks.
@G777GUN How is it easyer to build a new plane? The raptor cost is not that much more than the EF. We have already paid for the R&D. If we buy more it will only go for cost.
@TH7596 errr...have to point out that the English Electric Lighting could supercruise in 1957. in fact, the first prototype (E.E. P1a) went supersonic and the engines didnt have reheat pipes ! I will say that the F22 is a fine ship, but a completely different kettle of fish to the typhoon. comparisons are irrelevant, as they're meant to meet different requirements. And price brackets !
RD-33MK "Morskaya Osa" engine has a 7% higher horsepower compared with the original one due to the usage of modern materials on the cooled blades. It also has systems that reduce its infrared and optical visibility. The engines could be equipped with the thrust vectoring nozzles which would increase combat efficiency by 12-15%. This is the worlds only thrust vectoring engine that has the ability to rotate in all directions.
The 2°x2° narrow scanning cone is not undetectable. The physically scanned area depends directly (linearly) on the distance from the F22. 2° could be a small spot or an area the size of a football field. Apart from that it's only a matter of time that broadband scanners are developed that render the 1000+ Hz frequency shifting rate useless or at least less of an advantage. The more plausible and honest information I found is that the fast frequency shifts considerably reduce! the detection rate.
At least the Eurojet fact sheet says:"All engine conf igurations offered with multi-role ratings and optional thrust vectoring." Another comment on that is also on the Eurojet Turbo GmbH page: "Tranche 3 (from 2012 onward) involves a further 519 engines which may include further enhancement features (performance growth, life cycle management and thrust vectoring)." So it's still not dead?
Maneuverability and Thrust Vectoring are not directly connected. If you got a naturally unstable plane, and pack canards on it, you get better performance than thrust vectoring.
The Eurofighter has a passive infrared tracking system called PIRATE. It can lock on targets without even using it's pulse radar. While a AESA radar still can be located as it has to send impulses actively, PIRATE tracks it's target with it's heat signature (from the whole airframe, not just the engines) and even a stealth plane has this heat signature. Btw. the Raptor doesn't have such a system, so ranting about the "outdated" avionics of the EF ist just ridiculous.
Some people here have said that the F-22 is "too expensive" and have wrongly compared it to the two SU-47 test planes, and then said that the EuroFIghter is better because it is "operational"... ...But the US AIr force has 100+ F-22A's in service right now, how many Eurofighters does the RAF have?
BTW its clearly visible the most manouvers in this video are done at supersonic speed. No other fighter can do 6G manouvers at 1,5 Mach. The Frame holds up to 12Mach(F-22 10Mach) and a EF pilot can do 10G without Pressurebreathing.
F-22 does have capabilities that make it better for air to air combat, stealth is the main one. But the Eurofighter is a different plane, it is a multi role fighter and not only can it win against pretty much any potential enemy in a dogfight, its also amazing in air to ground combat
@5uckRogers Right, the EF is too expensive so let's buy Raptors for 3x the price. The F22 is so expensive to build and maintain, even the USA have stopped production after 187 planes. The EF is in no way outdated, i really don't know why people especially from Germany think that it is.
Agree fully but the Su-37 isn't as agile in supersonic speeds as the F-22 or Typhoon. At low speeds you are probably right. I only know instaneous turn rates of the Su-27 is 26,4°/s and from the EF is between 30°~35°/sec. But don't have data about the Su-37. Anyway its always a pleasure to talk with rasonable people like you. Cheers.
Good to see such comments on here, some too heavy for me. Some earlier comments about trials and being sent home hmmmmm! That's what trials are for, it's a different story now tho. Keep the comments flowing good to see the interest
In Singapore the EF-2000 beat the latest F-15E in trials for next Gen Singapore Air force fighter. EF-2000 was actually running on bad engines since the spares didnt turn up, even still it perfomed the best when it was the only aircraft to fly in poor tropicle weather. EF-2000 is not better in the Air-Air role then an F-22 but its more flexiable and hardy. Suprised its not been navalised yet.
tamainemiller You can ask fighter pilots who been flying both Eurofighter and Gripen. And the versatility and STOL qualities is outstanding in Gripen. I know that to appoint a plane to be regarded as the best is a tough one if even possible. But Gripen is certainly in the top three. But I don't think there is a accidental occurrence that the Hungarian Gripen pilot "shoot down" the Eurofighter in a dogfight!
The Su-27 has a turn rate of 26.4? If I remember correctly it had a 28.4d/s (I could be wrong) but yeah, at low speeds, I believe the canard tandem triplane with tvc would be better at low speeds add to that (please correct me if I'm wrong) don't russian planes have have soft limits built into their FBW systems? Thus allowing them to exceed max g limits in an emergency. But I digress, yes, I'm glad that there are a [few] mature people in YT that can carry out a logical, mature conversation.
There have been plenty of mock battles demonstrating the F-22s capabilities. But, you're right that they haven't seen any real combat, as far as I know. I gave the link because the sentiment means more coming from an RAF pilot and website to Europeans. Both the Typhoon and the Raptor have phenomenal capabilities. The reason I made the comments was to defend the F-22 from some previous comments.
Yes, just like the EF. The ATF(USA) and ASD(Eur) programs were from the late 70's, predating both the F22 and EF. If a requirement counts as a 'design' as you claim, then the F22 was 'designed' in the 70's too!
@TH7596 The EF is aerodynamicly unstable, like almost every modern fighter plane out there including F-16, F-22, F-35, Rafale, Gripen. Do they all appear shitty to you? Yes, weaker engines but also smaller and lighter which results in a comparable thrust to weight ratio.
I looked into it, and it seems the Internatinal Air power review story is totally bunk. No one can find any source to back it up other then the quote from Air Power rev.
What do you need stealth for, which you can btw knock out by placing several radars, if you can just "confuse" the missile, with decoys and flares? :P Oh, and the F35 is a strike fighter, not just a fighter.
@blablubb12345 Euro fighter program began in 1985 and the first x 31 was built in 1990 and i don't know if you know but before planes are built there's at least a decade of planing. x 31 was a test plane with thrust vectors and if you claim that U.S took it from E/F program why doesn't the E/F have any T/V's ??. First E/F test flight was March 27 1994 and program started in 1985. First X 31 was flown in 1990 with thrust vectors, what does say about the 2 programs and when they were started
...but the aircraft did cause a suprise by getting a radar lock on the F22 at a suprisingly long rate. The F-22s cried off, claiming that they were "unstealthed" anyway, although the next day´s scheduled two vs. two BWR engagement was canceled, and "the USAF decided they didn´t want to play any more .
No, they don't cool their exhaust in any way. The F22s thrust vectoring paddles and tail just cover the small part directly behind the nozzle, that's it. Modern heat seeking missiles have imaging IR seekers and can find the whole plane against the much cooler background. Stealth doesn't work against long wavelength radar, that's a matter of physics.
Improvments in operations have in fact improved the safety and effeciency of working on Carriers including around ventral intakes like on Prowlers. Many countries do not use catapults. -"Ventral intakes are in fact ideal for the Navy to help with lift on ski ramps" ????" Read the full comment. Research ramped carriers.
OK! The Harrier are some prove of excellent British military manufacturing and research! But my little country in the remote northern part of our (Great?) EU. They have been remarkable successful with previous fighters and in my mind its an excellent job by a small nation! Do you know much about Swedish fighters?
@HMSDaring1 youtube or not, the typhoon took a beating 14 times out of 15 in air to air with the rafale.... (atlc UAE 2009; solenzara 2009) as for the raptor, there are accounts of it finding itself in the HUD of various planes: typhoon, rafale gripen and even mirage2000-9... not making any judgement call here, just repeating what i read in trustable editions, french and others.
Actually its not GB's fault far from it, GB's deal with Saudi Arabia has in fact increased commitments and funding to Tranche 3. Its taking long because more upgrades were being discussed and its taking longer to implement because of changes to the plan.
@TuAFFalcon oO afaik is the f22 not that popular in the USAF they just bought it because they developed it because it cant even carry that much ammo to fight more than 2 or 3 fighter. and usaf thought about to buy the EF for their weasel attacks
The best way to compare the typhoon to the raptor is the typtoon is a rally car and the raptor is a F-1 car.and that was said by a man that flew both planes.
An F-22A Raptor crashed about 10 a.m. Mar 25, 2009 killing a test pilot for prime contractor Lockheed Martin Corp. David Cooley, 49, a 21-year Air Force veteran who joined Lockheed Martin in 2003 died. The company did not release any details of the accident or say whether or not Cooley attempted to eject. Watch my movie about the F-22
![[Military] Eurofighter Typhoon (Short Movie)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/SbiSNAlvqJk/mqdefault.jpg)
![[Military] Eurofighter Typhoon (Short Movie)](/img/tr.png)
Last time Su-30MKI engaged UK Royal Air Force Eurofighter "Typhoon" fighter in a mock aerial combat for the first time as part of the Anglo-Indian Exercise "Indradhanush 2007". Six Indian fighters as well as several European "Tornados" participated in the tests. The operational aspects of the exercises involved one-versus-one air combat as well as mixed-mission, multiple-aircraft sorties.
@Maraudershark1
Both X31 were flown at Dryden, but the only remaining plane is now in a german tech museum near Munich. One of the X31 pilots, Rüdiger Knöpfel, is also german.
@TH7596
Ehm, did you ever notice the german flag on the X31's tail? It was a JOINT project between the US and Germany. It's shape, including the wings and canards, was derived from the Eurofighter program and the british EAP prototype. Germany was responible for the flight software, including 3D thrust vectoring. And btw. 1990 is not exactly 30 years ago.
The frequency of the emitter signal (from the enemy aircraft or from ground stations). The F22 is the "receiver" and works as a resonating antenna. I hope it's clear now.
Gripens Radar is also an Ericsson design, and from what I hear it has a tremendous long range resolution able to pick apart the usual tight formations used by US pilots.
Mach 1 is approximately 340 m/s at sea level, which is 761 mph. The actual speed of sound deviates with temperature (as stated above) and altitude; sound slows as the air becomes less dense.
@aquietguy
142 mil for the F22 is pure flyaway cost (without R&D) while 100 mil for an EF is total program cost divided by the number actually built. Total program cost for an F22 is over 300 mil.
Lol I love how everyone is all the sudden an expert in military analysis and an ace pilot who's flown every modern aircraft and knows them all inside and out, and can make accurate and unbiased comparisons about them. It's very impressive.
@Joynson67
There're other planes as well that are made unstable for better maneuverability like Typhoon (F-18 Super hornet, JAS Gripen, at least to an extent) or for stealth(F-117, B-2), and hence are impossible or nearly impossible to fly without computer assistance.
@TH7596
The F22 is not "invisible", it just has a very low radar signature. You don't need afterburners to lock a modern heat seeking missile on your target.
@em745aa
Yes, and according to wikipedia F-16 seems to be the pioneer of relaxed stability.
LWF program was a US military aviation program, the US navy was backing the YF-17 not the YF-16, which was in fact being developed for the Air Force not the Navy.
@TH7596
The Eurofighter tech demonstrator 'EAP' flew in 1986 while the general design with delta wings and long coupled canards dates back to the early 70s. I never said the U.S. "took" the design from anyone, they did it TOGETHER. Results from this program were directly used for both EF and F22 programs, especially in terms of flight control systems. There are also Thrust vectoring nozzles for the EF but currently, there is no funding for test flights.
The Eurofighter Project didn't actually begin till 1986, before that only a requirement (ESRD) and a british experimental concept existed (EAP), and the prototype EF didn't fly till 1995 (I saw its first public flight at IAT 95) Its development throughout had been pretty much parallel to the F22, and is still in progress, all its systems are state of the art.
@Burdock007 That 356 mil includes 20+ years of R&D. It atually cost 142 mil to build one. And that's R&D cost spread among the 187 paid for already. Any more after that would go for cost providing we keep the production line going.
Thanks! The J-35 Draken did quite well in the commercial aspects but I cant comprehend why nobody purchased J-37 Viggen. I´m glad the Swede´s decided to manufacture Viggen, instead of the nuclear-carrier J-36!
The new SAAB/ British aerospace Gripen has arrived! A statement from the manufacture is available on SAAB´s official website! This new one got some radar system and electronic equipment that no other multi-role aircraft got!
I think the first stealth plane was a British WW2 bomber. Don't remember the name, but it was made mostly out of wood which had a low radar signature. It was actually invented by accident.
No, in RL. At least, I did read that in a military magazine. What good things has the F22?
-Stealth (Gonna be usesless in a few years)
-Thrust vectoring (Hasn't more mneuverability than the Euroofighter or the SU-35 though)
And another thing is that the F-22 is not totally invisible to other aircrafts. To lock those amraams to targets you need to use radar and the signal of the F-22's radar is detected by other aircrafts so that they know what direction is the F-22 comming from.
Absolutely. It's not a question of which plane is better, but a question of which plane can fulfill certain duties better. The next step is to combine the strengths of both planes to fly missions most effectively and efficiently. As a team they'll be a real pain in the ass of any enemy.
A correction! I would for sure used our RBS 70 (Like a Stinger) and would never have any doubts about "pulling" the trigger!
@aquietguy Actually what I read from somewhere is that REAL cost of one F22 fighter is WAY MORE that 140 million. What I read was that REAL cost of F22 is 350 MILLION DOLLARS EACH! Now thats a lot!
A simple change in the frequency band makes any plane detectable. But it's also a question of it's worth the effort. We'll see in the next years what the answer to stealth will be.
The Swedish aircraft industry is impressive!
A Norwegein Gripen-fan!
@29Gixxer For the last time(I hope), the raptor hasn't been cancled. We're just buying less. Which could change with the Pak Fa development. And, like every other fighter we have, there will be constant improvement of the raptor. As is now.
@gtkd88 The tornado isn`t an AA aircraft. It is made to fight against Flak and so on...
And the EF will get thrist vectoring in 2010 or 2011, a further development of the X31-type vectoring.
@blablubb12345 We have already pay for the 187 planed. So after that, they will sell for production. But it was a privately built, so R&D was added to the final cost. The EF was built by the governments so it wasn't added.
@Maraudershark1 no im saying exactly what you are saying but the x-31 fully built was flown in 1990, i know that it had been tested way before and existed way before what i was saying is that the E/F looks like the x-31 and that the e/f program began in 1985 as for the x-31 the first full functional one that was showcased stable enough to show in airshows was built in 1990 so that meant the x-31 was first than E/F..........thats all im saying and sure id like to see those pics. :)
We usually manufacture our own radarsystem but I dont know what origin the new Gripen radar got?
Ericsson have made some excellent radarsystem to our previous fighters the J-35 and J-37!
"two RAF Typhoons deployed to the USA for OEU trails work have been flying against the F-22 at NAS China Lake. There was little suprise that Typhoon, with its world-class agility and high off-boresight missile capability was able to dominate "Within Visual Range" flight.."
the slogan "nothing comes close" is so true. i hope to fly those someday, now for the grades
No thing is invisible in all EM frequencies. Even the F22 is visible to the naked eye. Thus the plane is visible at least in the 360 to 800 nm range. And I guess it's not the only frequency band the plane can be detected. RCS is very much dependent on the radar frequency used for detection.
I don't know how visible the F22 is to PCL systems, but I think it is.
You are correct my friend, someone who speaks sense at long last
What do you mean if? The Uk has already contrbuted 10% of the money that been spend developing the aircaft and is the sole level 1 partner in the devlopment. BAE systems is one of the companys devloping it. The Uk plans to get 138 of them.
Both planes were made for different things also. Plus the EF-2000 is far from fully complete, tranche 3 will be around probably by 2009 or 10
@bhartha2007 ...look up -f22 raptor(raf exchange pilot)-this guy has flown the EF and the F22..
Yeah and they are in fact helping the tranche 3 program with the Saudi deal as said. More upgrades can be added, which is what member nations of the project wanted.
@LottoWinner999 Actually the internet was invented in CERN in Switzerland. The World Wide Web was invented by Tim Berners Lee, a British Physicist.
@TH7596
The 2 flags are always there, just smaller and below the vertical stabilizer:
htt p://upload .wikimedia.o rg/wikipedia/en/9/92/Rockwell_MBB_X31. jpg
Have you heard of the CAESAR (Captor Active Electronically Scanned Array Radar).
I had one of these in my garage. I had to sell it because of the credit crunch. Shame, cos it was handy to nip to the shops n that.
none of the videos I've seen actually showcase the Eurofighter's talents. they merely show the plane cruising around, doing a few twists, etc. does anyone have a GOOD video of this plane? thanks.
This defencetalk thread started November 2003 and ended April 2004. It's a bit old. And the site is terribly slow at the moment.
@G777GUN How is it easyer to build a new plane? The raptor cost is not that much more than the EF. We have already paid for the R&D. If we buy more it will only go for cost.
@TH7596 errr...have to point out that the English Electric Lighting could supercruise in 1957. in fact, the first prototype (E.E. P1a) went supersonic and the engines didnt have reheat pipes !
I will say that the F22 is a fine ship, but a completely different kettle of fish to the typhoon. comparisons are irrelevant, as they're meant to meet different requirements. And price brackets !
RD-33MK "Morskaya Osa" engine has a 7% higher horsepower compared with the original one due to the usage of modern materials on the cooled blades. It also has systems that reduce its infrared and optical visibility. The engines could be equipped with the thrust vectoring nozzles which would increase combat efficiency by 12-15%. This is the worlds only thrust vectoring engine that has the ability to rotate in all directions.
The 2°x2° narrow scanning cone is not undetectable. The physically scanned area depends directly (linearly) on the distance from the F22. 2° could be a small spot or an area the size of a football field. Apart from that it's only a matter of time that broadband scanners are developed that render the 1000+ Hz frequency shifting rate useless or at least less of an advantage.
The more plausible and honest information I found is that the fast frequency shifts considerably reduce! the detection rate.
At least the Eurojet fact sheet says:"All engine conf igurations offered with multi-role
ratings and optional thrust vectoring."
Another comment on that is also on the Eurojet Turbo GmbH page: "Tranche 3 (from 2012 onward) involves a further 519 engines which may include further enhancement features (performance growth, life cycle management and thrust vectoring)."
So it's still not dead?
As a Briton I'm proud that the RAF has the Typhoon in service.
beautiful jett!!
Actually not completely sure about F-18, but Rafale and F-22 are similar to Typhoon in regards to the need of computer assistance while flying.
Maneuverability and Thrust Vectoring are not directly connected. If you got a naturally unstable plane, and pack canards on it, you get better performance than thrust vectoring.
The frequency of the emitter signal.
@forskingslogen
Best Fighter and Bomber ever made. A plane that does it all. Multirole dude. YEAH
The Eurofighter has a passive infrared tracking system called PIRATE. It can lock on targets without even using it's pulse radar. While a AESA radar still can be located as it has to send impulses actively, PIRATE tracks it's target with it's heat signature (from the whole airframe, not just the engines) and even a stealth plane has this heat signature.
Btw. the Raptor doesn't have such a system, so ranting about the "outdated" avionics of the EF ist just ridiculous.
Great video, with great sound. The Eurofighter is an awesome achievement no matter all the f-22 fanboys deny it.
@westland2323
You can buy about 1.25 EF's for every raptor.
@djula29 dont forget the f-35 and the su-47 (i know is an experimetal but still bad ass)
Some people here have said that the F-22 is "too expensive" and have wrongly compared it to the two SU-47 test planes, and then said that the EuroFIghter is better because it is "operational"...
...But the US AIr force has 100+ F-22A's in service right now, how many Eurofighters does the RAF have?
BTW its clearly visible the most manouvers in this video are done at supersonic speed. No other fighter can do 6G manouvers at 1,5 Mach. The Frame holds up to 12Mach(F-22 10Mach) and a EF pilot can do 10G without Pressurebreathing.
F-22 does have capabilities that make it better for air to air combat, stealth is the main one.
But the Eurofighter is a different plane, it is a multi role fighter and not only can it win against pretty much any potential enemy in a dogfight, its also amazing in air to ground combat
@5uckRogers
Right, the EF is too expensive so let's buy Raptors for 3x the price. The F22 is so expensive to build and maintain, even the USA have stopped production after 187 planes. The EF is in no way outdated, i really don't know why people especially from Germany think that it is.
@djula29 i think Eurofighter and Sukhoi SU-35
Agree fully but the Su-37 isn't as agile in supersonic speeds as the F-22 or Typhoon. At low speeds you are probably right.
I only know instaneous turn rates of the Su-27 is 26,4°/s and from the EF is between 30°~35°/sec.
But don't have data about the Su-37. Anyway its always a pleasure to talk with rasonable people like you. Cheers.
Good to see such comments on here, some too heavy for me. Some earlier comments about trials and being sent home hmmmmm! That's what trials are for, it's a different story now tho.
Keep the comments flowing good to see the interest
@blablubb12345
An F22 cost 142 mil each. A EF cost 100+ mil each.
In Singapore the EF-2000 beat the latest F-15E in trials for next Gen Singapore Air force fighter. EF-2000 was actually running on bad engines since the spares didnt turn up, even still it perfomed the best when it was the only aircraft to fly in poor tropicle weather. EF-2000 is not better in the Air-Air role then an F-22 but its more flexiable and hardy. Suprised its not been navalised yet.
tamainemiller
You can ask fighter pilots who been flying both Eurofighter and Gripen. And the versatility and STOL qualities is outstanding in Gripen. I know that to appoint a plane to be regarded as the best is a tough one if even possible. But Gripen is certainly in the top three. But I don't think there is a accidental occurrence that the Hungarian Gripen pilot "shoot down" the Eurofighter in a dogfight!
The Su-27 has a turn rate of 26.4? If I remember correctly it had a 28.4d/s (I could be wrong) but yeah, at low speeds, I believe the canard tandem triplane with tvc would be better at low speeds add to that (please correct me if I'm wrong) don't russian planes have have soft limits built into their FBW systems? Thus allowing them to exceed max g limits in an emergency. But I digress, yes, I'm glad that there are a [few] mature people in YT that can carry out a logical, mature conversation.
@29Gixxer "recent ownage of the rafale"? could you please tell me your source so i can check by myself?
@stonedwienfelsen every jet of today only flies with computer support. Also the F22 or the Su35
There have been plenty of mock battles demonstrating the F-22s capabilities. But, you're right that they haven't seen any real combat, as far as I know. I gave the link because the sentiment means more coming from an RAF pilot and website to Europeans. Both the Typhoon and the Raptor have phenomenal capabilities. The reason I made the comments was to defend the F-22 from some previous comments.
Swedish fighters have always been excellent, Drakken and Viggen were ahead of their time, they had fantastic ericsson radar systems
Hey I know fact from fantasy!
Where's your bubble floating?
With the F22? LOL
Love the Typhoon
Yes, just like the EF. The ATF(USA) and ASD(Eur) programs were from the late 70's, predating both the F22 and EF. If a requirement counts as a 'design' as you claim, then the F22 was 'designed' in the 70's too!
Hey ppl........its a awesome video of EF 2000
can any one tell me wht is the name of music which played in dis clip?
Thanx in Advance
Its a multi national project, GB is not the only country organising it.
@TH7596
The EF is aerodynamicly unstable, like almost every modern fighter plane out there including F-16, F-22, F-35, Rafale, Gripen. Do they all appear shitty to you?
Yes, weaker engines but also smaller and lighter which results in a comparable thrust to weight ratio.
I looked into it, and it seems the Internatinal Air power review story is totally bunk. No one can find any source to back it up other then the quote from Air Power rev.
@InitialAB 'because that is equally useless' I was reffering to the F35 not BAE btw :$
What do you need stealth for, which you can btw knock out by placing several radars, if you can just "confuse" the missile, with decoys and flares? :P
Oh, and the F35 is a strike fighter, not just a fighter.
@blablubb12345 Euro fighter program began in 1985 and the first x 31 was built in 1990 and i don't know if you know but before planes are built there's at least a decade of planing. x 31 was a test plane with thrust vectors and if you claim that U.S took it from E/F program why doesn't the E/F have any T/V's ??. First E/F test flight was March 27 1994 and program started in 1985. First X 31 was flown in 1990 with thrust vectors, what does say about the 2 programs and when they were started
...but the aircraft did cause a suprise by getting a radar lock on the F22 at a suprisingly long rate. The F-22s cried off, claiming that they were "unstealthed" anyway, although the next day´s scheduled two vs. two BWR engagement was canceled, and "the USAF decided they didn´t want to play any more .
No, they don't cool their exhaust in any way. The F22s thrust vectoring paddles and tail just cover the small part directly behind the nozzle, that's it. Modern heat seeking missiles have imaging IR seekers and can find the whole plane against the much cooler background.
Stealth doesn't work against long wavelength radar, that's a matter of physics.
Improvments in operations have in fact improved the safety and effeciency of working on Carriers including around ventral intakes like on Prowlers. Many countries do not use catapults.
-"Ventral intakes are in fact ideal for the Navy to help with lift on ski ramps"
????"
Read the full comment. Research ramped carriers.
OK! The Harrier are some prove of excellent British military manufacturing and research!
But my little country in the remote northern part of our (Great?) EU. They have been remarkable successful with previous fighters and in my mind its an excellent job by a small nation! Do you know much about Swedish fighters?
wait for videos with Iris-T and Meteor :-)
I get thumbs down for saying dont knock back the Typhoon?
@HMSDaring1 youtube or not, the typhoon took a beating 14 times out of 15 in air to air with the rafale....
(atlc UAE 2009; solenzara 2009)
as for the raptor, there are accounts of it finding itself in the HUD of various planes: typhoon, rafale gripen and even mirage2000-9...
not making any judgement call here, just repeating what i read in trustable editions, french and others.
great video, does any one know whats the name of the song??
Actually its not GB's fault far from it, GB's deal with Saudi Arabia has in fact increased commitments and funding to Tranche 3. Its taking long because more upgrades were being discussed and its taking longer to implement because of changes to the plan.
beautiful jet
Typhoon + Tornado = THE BEST !!
Eurofighter OWNS the skies!
@TuAFFalcon oO afaik is the f22 not that popular in the USAF they just bought it because they developed it because it cant even carry that much ammo to fight more than 2 or 3 fighter. and usaf thought about to buy the EF for their weasel attacks
The best way to compare the typhoon to the raptor is the typtoon is a rally car and the raptor is a F-1 car.and that was said by a man that flew both planes.
An F-22A Raptor crashed about 10 a.m. Mar 25, 2009 killing a test pilot for prime contractor Lockheed Martin Corp.
David Cooley, 49, a 21-year Air Force veteran who joined Lockheed Martin in 2003 died. The company did not release any details of the accident or say whether or not Cooley attempted to eject.
Watch my movie about the F-22