Oh, and I just remembered that I watched a video with a professional traditional cabinet maker. He said that when you make furniture for generations, you have to make it repairable. He used hide glue for joinery for that very reason. That really stayed with me. If something have to last it's not just about how sturdy it's built, it's also about how easy it is to repair.
Great point. However, I can see people going after their furniture trying to pull it apart thinking it's made of hide glue, when it's a modern glue that can't be taken apart with a hot knife. Unfortunately, craftspeople who use hide glue don't always mark that fact on the furniture;-)
Old timer here...76 at present, there has been big debates about "natural glues" and "adhesives", I keep making the point that both are considered adhesives, but only natural materials are truly Glues.! Be it bone or hyde, fish etc. Synthetic adhesives are inferior to natural glues in most applications, though most epoxies/ polyester have a great advantage over natural glues, especially in gap filling or others areas like forming missing broken parts that can be carved back to original shapes like a missing claw of a claw& ball chair leg. But with that said, you would have to pry my boney hands off of my Hyde glue when it comes to wood Joints especially.! I'm glad to see that you and hopefully other young woods workers are availing yourselves to the great properties of these glues.! I hope they gain greater acceptance going forward, and their use continues forever..!! If U ever need more info on their use or other additives or ways to use the Hyde glue, feel free to contact me....
Makes a lot of sense even for someone who doesn't spend a lot of time in the shop. I've thrown away more wood glue due to age and freezing than I've used. any dry granular is easier to store and have on hand. Same with schallac.
You have a good point for using this old fashioned glue.that short clamp time and compatibility with some oil finishes is definitely something in its favor
I started using hide glue a couple years ago, and love it. It’s part of my normal routine now. I get up, grab a cup of coffee and head out to the shop. I turn the lights on, set the temperature on the thermostat and turn on my glue pot. By the time I’m ready to glue up anything, I have an entire pot of warm glue ready to go. It smells good too.
I recently finished building a Japanese toolbox for my hand planes and I used Titebond hide glue throughout. I really liked the glue. Even the next day, when the glue was dry, I could easily clean up the squeeze out with a damp sponge. I'm now building a pair of nightstands and, again, am using the hide glue. I heard on another recent video that one of the curators at the Smithsonian Museum tested hide glue strength (it's been in use for THOUSANDS of years) and found it to be almost as strong as epoxy!
I've never used hot hide glue but have used liquid hide glue a lot. As a musician, hide glue is used because it's possible to take a wooden instrument (violin, cello, etc) apart to repair it. As a furniture maker, I used hide glue due to it's longer set time. You have time to move clamps around until you've got the piece in perfect alignment. This is the second video of yours that I've watched. I like your style. Keep it up.
Yup, hide glue rocks. As for reversibility…I once tried to get apart a joint that had been glued together just a few days earlier. I had to literally soak it in a bucket of water for 3 days and then apply heat with a heat gun to get the joint apart. That is tough glue! Your video covered the basics really well. Lots more to hide glue, like different gram strengths. Also, if you ever try veneering then hide glue + veneer hammer = amazing. Thanks for helping to educate folks about hide glue and sharing your recipe. (You can keep leftover glue in the refrigerator. It keeps a long time in there. )
It is reversible if the joint is accessible enough. The most common way for flat glued joints is to heat up a thin metal blade and just cut into the joint like butter. That is an excellent first step for any disassembly as the newly made gap can be moistened if it in itself did not suffice.
After watching Thomas Johnson do his repairs with hide glue, I used it on an old table. It is awesome stuff, and btw use an old small crockpot to heat mine.
Oh yeah, Tom Johnson of Thomas Johnson Furniture Restoration, Gorham, Maine! Love his videos! On my woodworking forum we never mention his name without the entire introduction 😅 (Or someone will add the parts left out!)
Actually one of the best case for hide glue I’ve heard. I work on instruments so hide glue (and fish glue) is common for me .. but for a general woodworker the NUMBER ONE reason to use hide glue is the finishing angle. Hide glue 0:01 plus sawdust stains up like solid wood. PVA plus sawdust does not stain any better than dried PVA. It will literally stand out like a sore thumb and look like hell even 30’ away. For joinery hide glue rocks!! I don’t use it for edge gluing panels - that’s PVA all the way .
Frank, I found that a potpourri pot works great. Heats my glue to 140° and holds it. Doesn't look as professional as yours, because mine has Christmas decorations on the outside, but it works.
Couple more tips about hide glue: You can use non-iodised salt (sodium chloride) instead of urea, works just as well. White vinegar breaks down hide glue if you're having trouble getting a joint apart.
Kosher salt is just salt. I was really amazed to find the jar of Morton's I grew up with has 5 ingredients! What's all that stuff doing to your insides over a lifetime of exposure?!? Never knew salt needed to be added to the glue, so at least I learned something neat today!
@@jasonandersen5975 How do you know? Especially over the long term and in conjunction with other things that you might be ingesting, including mediations. That's the key. I've found no long-term studies on the effects of these kinds of things. Worse, I get the feeling that it'd be impossible to do a study simply because there are too many factors to account for.
As a guitar maker hot hide glue has been something in my shop for a long time. But in the past couple of years I've found fish glue to be very useful as well. Same properties as hide glue without the hot pot or warming up parts to extend drying time. Much better open time with fish glue. Although I didn't know about the urea.
We've been using a microwave for hide glue for many many years it's great!! no glue pot and it 's ready in seconds---really. Watch out liquid fish glue may have phenol's to keep it liquid. And be somewhat hydroscopic in high heat and humid conditions.
I used hide glue on the houndstooth, dovetails of my Roubo bench and I was just as excited about it as you were. I used tight bond hide glue because it was already mixed. I just released a video a couple days ago about making them if you want to check it out Frank. A little sawdust mixed into the hide. Glue makes any gaps in the dovetails invisible.
@@FranksWorkbench cool. I really like your videos. Very clean audio, good insight, good information and no flashy crap like some woodworking channels. Keep it up!
Hyde glue has its applications, but keep these things in mind: 1. Because it is hard it is also brittle. Don’t use in situations where wood expansion or joint flexing will take place as it will break, 2. It stinks, literally. Hyde Glue has many fine properties but don’t throw away your PVA glued, or your CA glues either. On another note just because a piece of furniture has screws used on it doesn’t make it a throw away piece. Great video!
Boiled Bunnies! OH the humanity of it all!!! 🤢 It used to be made from horse's hide. My teacher was a door and window maker and he used it. But Titebond just fine. (I'm not a luthier I'm just old)
I like fish glue as well. No heat required and cleans up really well. Works great with dissimilar materials. Great for binding, inlay, fret and crack repairs on musical instruments, and gluing nuts and saddles. Long open time when you need it.
Skipped the PVA glue and moved to hide glue. Then i skipped the hide glue, too... and moved to fish glue. Reasons: Same advantages you mentioned for the hide glue, but + longer open time (well, at least for me it's a pro. Some might consider this as a con) + way better smell (though it's fish. Counterintuitive, i know) + keeps good forever in wet condition (actually maybe not forever. But i keep a quarter filled bottle since 3½ years and i am testing it every now and then. Just for curiosity. And it still glues like a charm. No denaturation, no mold, still glueing great) + no fiddling around with hot water pots. This stuff works without any prep-hassle (almost) year round. Fish live in cold water, that's why their proteins (our 'glue') have to be flexible/elastic in cold conditions (39F/4C). In contrast to the animals that hideglue stems from: those proteins 'operate' at higher body temperatures. Only in very cold settings fishglue becomes quite viscous, but a quick bath in warm tapwater is enough to do the trick. Oh, and cold sourroundings shorten the open time, probably also because of the viscosity. A workshop with "room temperature" is recommended or one should at least warm up the workpieces before glueing. + glues lots of other materials, like metal, glass or stone. I used fishglue to attach leather pieces to my holdfasts (to prevent marring the wood). That was five or six years ago. Still holding up fine. +the bond fishglue forms with the wood is way stronger than hide glue. I even think it's stronger than PVA glue, but that might be an subjective impression. One additional tip to hide glue: If you want your hideglue to last longer, don't store it 'wet'! Let it dry completely and it keeps good forever. To use it again you have to 'revive' it by adding water and heating it up.
Fish glue is weaker than hide/bone glue. There is also quite the difference in hide glue (in Germany we call it "Hasenleim" which basically means it's made from the skin of rabbits) and bone glue (Knochenleim). Bone glue is the strongest of the natural glues, with one exception that is a special type of fish glue. In general the normal fish glue is as strong if not a tiny bit weaker than regular Hide glue (light brown), but weaker than bone glue (really dark grown). The "special fish glue" is called Hausenblasenleim in Germany, meaning it's made from the bladder of the fish: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_glue
Using a heat gun strategically works wonders. i keep hide glue in the fridge in my shop and if i want some for touch-up or small project just heat the surface use what you need then throw it back in the fridge,
Hello, I suppose, that hide glue is the equivalent to the German Knochenleim := bone glue. I use it in the same way and for the same reasons as the commetator Jean Paul Peeters. Mostly it's used for the restauration of historical, wooden string instruments, such as Mandolines, Lutes, Guitars etc. and, as he is telling, it's no problem, to remove the parts by heating them, sometimes supported by hotwater or steam. One can even correct a glue t.e., if the soundboard wasn't glued correct to the body side by heating it to 40-70°C. The filling of cracks with this dark glue is another advantage. Getting hard and brittle is not only good for the sound transfer, but also for mechanical treatment, such as sanding. But one has to pay attention to not getting the sanded parts to hot. If so, it gets greasy and sticky again. One more advantage: If you don't need it, just let it dry. Next time you want to use it, pour little water in, let it swell for a few hours, heat it to 40°C and use it as before. If it is to stiff, mix a little more water to it. The biggest disadvantage: To get the best glueing results, you have to work very fast and precise. If the bone glue gets cold or dry, it won't glue the way it's meant to be. It often helps to carefully preheat the parts to glue with a heat gun or a sodering torch. When I started restoring instruments, I was very unhappy with the charakteristics of normal wood glue. Easy to handle, but ...Somewhere in a description of historical carpentry work I found bone glue to be the common glue of this time. I bought the raw material and learned by try and error how to handle it. Regards Th. Krapf
When I worked in the cabinet-shop (back when there was only one Titebond -- The Original), during the heat of the summer as I was gluing up (say) door panels for kitchen cabinets, 40 minutes was all the time the panel was in the clamps. If I glued them up in the morning, I could plane, cut to size, and run them through the panel raising (shaper) bit in the afternoon. Never had a problem with delaminating at the glue joints. Perhaps the formulation for the glue has changed ?
Hide glue is great. It doesn't need clamping in many applications it shrinks tight when it dries,hence the many glue blocks used in very old furniture. Its ok to use untill you find yourself in a large glue up and you don't have time to clamp and check your final alignment . Biggest problem is when you retire and move the tropical climes like north Queensland or florida and all your furniture and musical instruments fall apart. High strenth pva is cheap ,easy to use,will last longer than you will ,and with a little care to prevent squeeze out damaging the porosity of your wood and subsequently stain finish is a great glue
We used to have a two part glue for external joinery ,sashes doors etc called urea formaldehyde. I don't know if it can be bought in small quantities but it was crazy strong, had gap filling abilities and cleaned up with water.
@@BillDavies-ej6ye it was a urea powder and formaldehyde resin, yellowish colour when mixed. For some reason we changed to resoursonol, brown and not as thick and was mostly used for glueing finger jointed stock and laminated beams for building construction.
Ps: glacial acetic acid, thinned 1 pert acid to 10 parts water applied to clothing and left to set for about twenty min. And then laundered will usually remove the glue, you may have to do this more than once though...
Ceratin glues, collagen glues - really great stuff, though not as easy to handle as "standard" wood glue, and some them are pretty smelly when in liquid form (depending on the manufacturer).
Yep. Love the Hot Hide Glue. Been using it for near on 40 years now. And yeah, no more Hold Heet Glue pots.. Kinda sad as they are the best. Mine is still going strong.
Another acoustic instrument maker here - I couldn't agree more, hide glue is the best. I use it (and fish glue where really long open time is needed) for all sound-critical joints. I'm happy with PVA, CA and other glues where appropriate, so I'm not a fanatic about hot hide glue. A couple of maybe useful points from my experience: 1. A baby bottle warmer has worked perfectly for me for 10 years. I calibrated it when I got it and now just leave it at the same heat setting the whole time. 2. Hide glue freezes well when made up. This gives it a very much longer life without spoiling and you can just take it out of the freezer and throw it in the bottle warmer when needed. I haven't noticed any degradation in joint strength after even multiple periods in the freezer and reheating, but have to say I make up a fresh batch for any really critical joints, just from an abundance of caution. Any left at the end of a day goes straight into the freezer. 3. To minimize the risk of a bad joint through 'gelling' before I can get the parts clamped together, I paint glue on both parts, so the wood to glue connection on each part is always while the glue is liquid. If it gels slightly before clamping up, it doesn't matter - the glue will meld into itself perfectly well. 4. Many joints don't even need clamps - a rubbed joint (parts should be PERFECTLY mated, no gaps) will be 'self-clamping'.
I tried gluing a guitar neck on.. both sufraces were flat as poss... no dovetail or anything... rock hard wood... so I thought to take up imperfections make the hide glue thick... after 24 hrs pulled apart....didn't clamp as read hide glue not needed as pulls surfaces together.. (I think thats wrong now though).. glue was still rubbery and not sure there was even good contact between surfaces... I heated the glue too hot... steam was coming out of it.. any ideas?
Does Hyde Glue still smell like death? I come from a book binding background and remember the smell of the Hyde Glue as it was heated on a cold winters day. It was revolting
Love hide glue and have even made my own by shaving down fresh deer hides I stretched in a frame. I've heard that the type of animal the hide comes from can make a difference, but I don't know if that's just an old wive's tale or not. Not that it matters, since there's not much you can get aside from "rabbit skin" hide glue in granulated form.
@@FranksWorkbench II still have some if you'd like to try it out! Part of the brain-tanning using the "dry scrape" process pretty much means you'll end up with all kinds of shavings to make glue from. 😀 Have you ever put hide glue on flat glass to decorate it? I love listening to the snap, crackle and pop.
Seems the challenge I run into is finding the raw ingredients locally. Shellac flkes cant seem to be obtained from Ace or True value in my area anymore. Woodworkers source or woodcraft are my local options, but they're 30 and 80 minutes away. I can surmise that the glue flakes will be similarly rare. Good to know that it can be done though! 3 ingredients. Simple enough!
Old hide glue can be loosened in say dining chairs by injecting Methylated spirits into the joints, this will stop damage to the wood and is easily cleaned up with hot water and a brush. Also great for veneering when using a warm iron as you will get a second chance if things don't go right.
As an artist, I have used hyde glue, and if you have sealed the glue, its fine, however, beware, in temperature above 120 F, it MELTS. Melts. It will run right out of your work, or otherwise loose its adhesion, for as long as it is hot. For the trouble, I, as an artist, have switched to PVA glue for my needs as an artist, lol, the benefits are so much better, if not for the trouble of making the glue alone.
I repair rustic furniture and a hot-air gun is my go-to tool for removing broken chair rails etc. because they are made with hide glue. I’m not a fan of using it for new work because it’s a pain to keep the pot hot.
Would adding high proof alcohol (grain or rubbing) help prevent mold growth? Would it adversely affect the setting properties, or would it evaporate off when you warm the glue for use?
I've used alcohol injected into a joint to break the glue bond on antique furniture. I don't know how that works, but it kind of crystalized the old glue. So maybe not a good idea.
I see there are other luthiers in the world. If you have been trained within a luthiers guild; you get at least two weeks of nuttin’ but different types, mixtures, and proper applications for all tone woods. That was 40 years ago and I go back to those notes almost weekly.
I have a wax warmer, you know, for when you're waxing your bikini line 😅 I got it very cheap, but it works fine. And if it breaks some day, I'll buy a new one. I actually have an old glue pot, but I don't have a hot plate in the workshop. The smart thing about wax warmers is that they maintain a steady temperature for as long as it's on-which can be for days. When I got it I measure the temperature so I know where the 60° C mark is on the Low High scale. For wax it doesn't need numbers, because it's already made for wax, measuring it for glue is, however, necessary.
Will hide glue bond to substrates besides wood? I’m looking for adhesive to bond aluminum to wood for a jewelry box and hoping to avoid epoxy because of the space it takes up. Hide glue is awesome in tight joints per my reading.
From what i understand from hideglue. Use what you need, then let the unused glue completely dry out. Don't let it sit in a container as a liquid. Take it out from its container, and put it on non stick paper or a old plastic bag, then let it dry, then collect it, snap it in to small pieces and put it in a open air container. And once you need it again, add water and a little bit of heat to make it in to glue again. Sure there will be more work every time you need to use it, but it should also last you a lot longer. and less of a chance for it to go bad.
Equal parts water and glue, by weight is what I do. Slightly more water for thinner, or less for thicker. Can put lid on jar and keep in fridge for a week or two, but have to reheat. There are different "weights" of hide glue, heavier weight sets up quicker but is stronger. I use 192 for guitar/violins, heavier is usually just for furniture, less is for jewelry boxes. Can use 192 for just about everything. Can still get glue heating pots from luthier supply (violin making companies)
I've used it without apparent problems, but I know luthiers who say it isn't as good as Old Brown and have had it fail on them. They know a lot about hide glue, so I've decided to make my own, like Frank here, and not use Titebond's again.
I’m really glad you made this video. I’ve always wondered how you made yours. I’ve been using old brown glue for a couple of years (mainly for joinery) and even asked the owner a couple of questions. He told me it’s best to leave items clamped overnight. I use titebond original to make panels because it’s easy,comes out of clothes, and creeps less than titebond 2/3. I think everyone needs to at least give liquid hide glue a try with joinery because it really lowers the stress and joints just slide together.
overnight for PVA? I leave it in clamps for an hour and that's plenty. I've tried hammering apart PVA glued pieces after 15 minutes and it did not come apart.
Alright guys, enjoy the video. Ends the video. 😂 I still enjoyed it lol. Great information and cool to hear about this alternative. You really laid out some really good points about the pros and cons.
I use personally Cascamite. Hide glue is from animals, and i don’t like that. Cascamite is also outstanding for outdoor use. And also no problems with staining..
pull something apart that was built about 1850... instruments... or timber foundry patterns. all the old pattern books recommend batches. clean pot, clean water, clean everything... it doesnt store well. also possibly the source of "double gluing". youre "sealing the grain", lets you take off any of those little whiskers that love to pop up, get the joint really tight... and extends the working time when you actually do go to glue it... less water being sucked out.
I've been using hide glue for about 10 years and for any musical instruments and speaker cabinets it's essential as Titebond acts like plastic separators between the wood parts. Hide glue lets the wood parts to become one and resonate as one so you get a massively better tone. I've only used hide glue from Ragland Piano, mostly 251. The Titebond hide glue is total bullshit to me, it's not real hide glue. I've never had hide glue go bad, and I'm sure you could scrape hide glue off a 1600's violin and reuse it. I always store it in the fridge at the back of a shelf. I've had some for several years and it never went bad in the fridge. I heat it up on the stove but for small repairs I use the microwave (carefully in 5 - 15 sec blasts). One thing is, after you glue something up, spend quite a bit of time cleaning up the excess glue with a chisel (put the scraped stuff back in the jar then in the fridge) as when it's hard it's like glass. Use boilng water to clean up, dip the chisel in it. I've had no problem dismantling stuff, I just use a household steamer, a $100 Wagner. You can put hide glue on two pieces of wood and rub them together and the glue will grab and often there's no need for clamps. I have never added anything to the hide glue except water. A very cool thing is that hide glue sucks together as it sets so all my joints look way better with it, which helps because I'm not a good woodworker.
Thanks Frank. I've been using hide glue (mostly Liquid Hide Glue from Titebond) but looking to make my own. I already dissolve up my own shellac and as much as I love Tried and True finishes, I'm thinking of refining my own linseed oil. As such, making my own hide glue doesn't seem that weird at all. If not, I'm thinking of going over to Patrick Edward's Old Brown Glue like you suggested. On the Fixing Furniture TH-cam channel, he adds some white vinegar to joints with hide glue if they don't come apart easily. Seems to work well. Worth looking into vs. heat and steam.
Thank Joe! you sound a lot like me LOL i do the same with shellac so I can use everclear instead of denatured alcohol. Ill have to check that channel out!
One of the common finishes for wood boats is equal parts pine tar and linseed oil thinned with turpentine, and if a shinier finish is required, shellac flakes can be added. I use pine tar and turpentine for everything that'll be outside and love the look it gives. That the pine tar and turpentine both have natural anti-microbial properties is a real bonus for woodwork that'll be outside. I've been curious about adding hide glue to the mix for various jobs to see if it would harden a little like the shellac does.
Be very very aware! The modern Hide glues (animal protein) are simply compromised formulations which merely resemble the original. Hide glue was dispensed from an electric Hot Pot on a brush with a very short open time until it cooled rock hard. Glue out would chip a hand plane's blade. Alcohol would fracture the adhesive. Extremely difficult with which to work from the Hot Pot. It was a very messy Pot. I remember when Elmer's White Glue use became widespread. The messy stinky Hot Pots vanished overnight. I can still remember that smell and sight. A miracle glue, that white stuff. Later the formulation changed to Polyvinyl Acetate. The original PVA was used by young Boy Scouts to coat newspaper for the sides of small canoes. It was waterproof. Mothers complained it wouldn't wash out of their boys' clothes so polyvinyl alcohol was added to the formulation for washing. Mexico is supposed to sell the original formulation.(???). The modern squeeze bottle stuff is do full of fillers to avoid Hot Pots that I would never trust it for any project. Well, maybe cardboard?
Baby warmers that go up to 70 degrees celsius are perfect. Bone/hide glue should not be heated above 60°C or it will weaken. Don't know what that is in "imperial".
Look, the man that taught me about cabinet making when I was about ten (i'm nearly 70 now) showed me about Titebond II. We built a couple of dozen drawers WITH NO FASTENERS for kitchen cabinets. Mr. Rice said the glue joints were stronger than #4 brad nails. He had me 45* miter cut 2 1x4's of birch, glue only one and hot hide glue and nail the other. three days later I clamped one side in the bench vise and pulled one the right-angle to break it apart. The brad nailed gave easily. It took all I had to break the Titebond II and the 1x4 Birch board FAILED, NOT THE GLUED JOINT!!! Titebond III is STRONGER! Mr. Rice told me dovetails weren't needed anymore in 1963, but for show, finger-joints cut well and glued would hold all the plywood could, and he was in his late 80's. He had built cabinets in the oil millionaires' mansions up and down Main Street in Tulsey Towne, Indian Territory well before Statehood! I build loudspeaker cabinets with what he taught me, and they have to withstand vibration and not leak ANY AIR ait 163 decibels (louder than 2 feet from an F16 at full-throttle at take-off).and I use no fasteners.A Titebond III joint has never failed me. Mr. Reeves my ELEMENTARY skrul Shop Teacher also swore by Titebond II and III when it came out when I would have been in 5th Grade. Mr. Reeves gave us two 8 foot long 2x6's to glue-up with TB III. over-lapping a foot. No nails, no screws.. He put 8 of us on the long end with one end in an 12" winton bench vice. It sounded like a shotgun when the 2 by let go and our hands all stung!
I'm pleased to find someone else who uses glue only. I have made tables ,cupboards, stools and benches . Also musical instruments, all with no nails screw's or dovetails. I have made two small boats using epoxy glue and screws but removed all the screws when the glue set. I've learnt to trust glue.
Hide glue is very worthwhile in some cases. However PVA glue only became prevalent because of the negative aspects of hide glue. e.g Using hide glue in an area with high humidity and/or temperatures that go over 80 F degrees, probably is not the best idea.
I live in a higher humidity area with a huge range of temperatures... From negative 60 to positive 130... Does this just mean it would need to be made and used all up same day or that the glue would fail in extreme temperatures or where there are big changes between days (sometimes the weather is 40-60 degrees different in a day or the same day)... I see there are different grams involved... Maybe some mixes are better in different climates or seasons?
thanks man! Lived in San Antonio for several years, there was a cool hardwood store there pretty close to the med center Alamo hardwoods I think it was
Hide glue is great, but it stinks and it contain protein so it can start to mold (which can be seen on old instruments). Reversibility is actually better with Titebond as it only require heat, hide glue require both heat and moisture to release.
Here's a tip!----this is knowledge sharing. maybe. The most important step in use of hot glue is one must preheat the wood. We purchase 50lb drums of hide glue when needed. We glue very large objects " piano SB's" and everything wood, loose veneer etc. Also we always do a dry clamping run, clamp everything without glue first so there is no delay running to look for or adjusting clamps. If the wood is room temp and the glue is 140degF or so,,,the wood will gas off while at the same time "gelling" if our glue gels up before everything is clamped we abort the mission and start over---period. = loss of time and pissed off. Bummer! Hot watery glue will make the room temp wood gas off! forcing the glue out of the pores and cooling off, then the bond is compromised. = weakened. Just to note!! Hmmm---Watching many many videos of fiddle repair persons you will never ever see them preheat the work??? BUT! that would make the pieces a lot easier to pry apart later on after many years or so. Hmm,,,,maybe that is why? maybe that is one of the secret's. LOL. Hide glue seems to be a mysterious topic lately in the guitar world. Also plastic under the clamping blocks will prevent moisture from escaping and that can be a bummer,,,,heavy paper will absorb a great deal of that moisture, it;s the best way to keep the glue from sticking the clamping blocks. Oh yes,,Ive mentioned microwaving your glue in seconds, especially tiny amounts. No need for the pain in the butt glue pot, This glue pot thing is what is most discouraging. Hide glue folks hey,,,,try it you will like it!. However for felting piano actions 88 little felts x 6 or 8 = 500 + pieces yes- glue pots we still use. I had a big shot the "arch poopery" U-Tuber he totally poo pooed the notion of microwave = closed minded ass, oh well? No gain there. Did you ever hear the notion of the leading a horse to water but you can't make them drink?? Well,,people too it seems. R.B. Hampshire piano. Western MA.
Wood "even sealed" has dimensional changes with humidity, When the glue is brittle it eventually fails from this. A little creep is a good thing in wood.
Where you at in Texas? Just curious cause I live in Texas also. Don't worry I'm not gonna start stalking you or anything 😂 Great video. Really cool stuff to know about hide glue.
Oh, and I just remembered that I watched a video with a professional traditional cabinet maker. He said that when you make furniture for generations, you have to make it repairable. He used hide glue for joinery for that very reason. That really stayed with me. If something have to last it's not just about how sturdy it's built, it's also about how easy it is to repair.
Great point. However, I can see people going after their furniture trying to pull it apart thinking it's made of hide glue, when it's a modern glue that can't be taken apart with a hot knife. Unfortunately, craftspeople who use hide glue don't always mark that fact on the furniture;-)
@@orazha That's a good point. I'll remember to add instructions somewhere! :^)
Old timer here...76 at present, there has been big debates about "natural glues" and "adhesives", I keep making the point that both are considered adhesives, but only natural materials are truly Glues.! Be it bone or hyde, fish etc.
Synthetic adhesives are inferior to natural glues in most applications, though most epoxies/ polyester have a great advantage over natural glues, especially in gap filling or others areas like forming missing broken parts that can be carved back to original shapes like a missing claw of a claw& ball chair leg. But with that said, you would have to pry my boney hands off of my Hyde glue when it comes to wood Joints especially.!
I'm glad to see that you and hopefully other young woods workers are availing yourselves to the great properties of these glues.! I hope they gain greater acceptance going forward, and their use continues forever..!! If U ever need more info on their use or other additives or ways to use the Hyde glue, feel free to contact me....
Makes a lot of sense even for someone who doesn't spend a lot of time in the shop. I've thrown away more wood glue due to age and freezing than I've used. any dry granular is easier to store and have on hand. Same with schallac.
You have a good point for using this old fashioned glue.that short clamp time and compatibility with some oil finishes is definitely something in its favor
I started using hide glue a couple years ago, and love it. It’s part of my normal routine now. I get up, grab a cup of coffee and head out to the shop. I turn the lights on, set the temperature on the thermostat and turn on my glue pot. By the time I’m ready to glue up anything, I have an entire pot of warm glue ready to go. It smells good too.
another sweet trick is glue and earth pigments for filler. they are a lot finer than sawdust and with 2-3 different tones one can mix and match
I recently finished building a Japanese toolbox for my hand planes and I used Titebond hide glue throughout. I really liked the glue. Even the next day, when the glue was dry, I could easily clean up the squeeze out with a damp sponge. I'm now building a pair of nightstands and, again, am using the hide glue. I heard on another recent video that one of the curators at the Smithsonian Museum tested hide glue strength (it's been in use for THOUSANDS of years) and found it to be almost as strong as epoxy!
that's interesting, wouldnt surprise me! It can be a little more of a hassle, but I think its more than worth it. Need to try the tight bond version
I've never used hot hide glue but have used liquid hide glue a lot. As a musician, hide glue is used because it's possible to take a wooden instrument (violin, cello, etc) apart to repair it. As a furniture maker, I used hide glue due to it's longer set time. You have time to move clamps around until you've got the piece in perfect alignment.
This is the second video of yours that I've watched. I like your style. Keep it up.
Yup, hide glue rocks. As for reversibility…I once tried to get apart a joint that had been glued together just a few days earlier. I had to literally soak it in a bucket of water for 3 days and then apply heat with a heat gun to get the joint apart. That is tough glue! Your video covered the basics really well. Lots more to hide glue, like different gram strengths. Also, if you ever try veneering then hide glue + veneer hammer = amazing. Thanks for helping to educate folks about hide glue and sharing your recipe. (You can keep leftover glue in the refrigerator. It keeps a long time in there. )
haha thanks Jim yeah the furniture restoration pros can probably get it apart and make it look easy lol (and it probably is easy...for them...:)
It is reversible if the joint is accessible enough. The most common way for flat glued joints is to heat up a thin metal blade and just cut into the joint like butter. That is an excellent first step for any disassembly as the newly made gap can be moistened if it in itself did not suffice.
After watching Thomas Johnson do his repairs with hide glue, I used it on an old table. It is awesome stuff, and btw use an old small crockpot to heat mine.
Oh yeah, Tom Johnson of Thomas Johnson Furniture Restoration, Gorham, Maine! Love his videos! On my woodworking forum we never mention his name without the entire introduction 😅 (Or someone will add the parts left out!)
Actually one of the best case for hide glue I’ve heard. I work on instruments so hide glue (and fish glue) is common for me .. but for a general woodworker the NUMBER ONE reason to use hide glue is the finishing angle. Hide glue 0:01 plus sawdust stains up like solid wood. PVA plus sawdust does not stain any better than dried PVA. It will literally stand out like a sore thumb and look like hell even 30’ away. For joinery hide glue rocks!! I don’t use it for edge gluing panels - that’s PVA all the way .
Yes sir!! 100%
Frank, I found that a potpourri pot works great. Heats my glue to 140° and holds it. Doesn't look as professional as yours, because mine has Christmas decorations on the outside, but it works.
Great idea, thank you!
Couple more tips about hide glue:
You can use non-iodised salt (sodium chloride) instead of urea, works just as well.
White vinegar breaks down hide glue if you're having trouble getting a joint apart.
thanks man!
Look for pickling salt, which has no added iodine or any anti-caking agents.
Kosher salt is just salt. I was really amazed to find the jar of Morton's I grew up with has 5 ingredients! What's all that stuff doing to your insides over a lifetime of exposure?!? Never knew salt needed to be added to the glue, so at least I learned something neat today!
@@threeriversforge1997 what’s all that stuff doing to your insides? Nothing. The sodium is the biggest health risk in salt.
@@jasonandersen5975 How do you know? Especially over the long term and in conjunction with other things that you might be ingesting, including mediations. That's the key. I've found no long-term studies on the effects of these kinds of things. Worse, I get the feeling that it'd be impossible to do a study simply because there are too many factors to account for.
As a guitar maker hot hide glue has been something in my shop for a long time. But in the past couple of years I've found fish glue to be very useful as well. Same properties as hide glue without the hot pot or warming up parts to extend drying time. Much better open time with fish glue. Although I didn't know about the urea.
We've been using a microwave for hide glue for many many years it's great!! no glue pot and it 's ready in seconds---really.
Watch out liquid fish glue may have phenol's to keep it liquid.
And be somewhat hydroscopic in high heat and humid conditions.
i usually make bigger batches in a squeeze bottle. When i need it, i just microwave the bottle for 10 seconds. Ive had no issues so far.
I used hide glue on the houndstooth, dovetails of my Roubo bench and I was just as excited about it as you were. I used tight bond hide glue because it was already mixed. I just released a video a couple days ago about making them if you want to check it out Frank. A little sawdust mixed into the hide. Glue makes any gaps in the dovetails invisible.
Sweet, I'll check it out! Thanks Gary
@@FranksWorkbench cool. I really like your videos. Very clean audio, good insight, good information and no flashy crap like some woodworking channels. Keep it up!
@@garynelles thanks man!!
Hyde glue has its applications, but keep these things in mind: 1. Because it is hard it is also brittle. Don’t use in situations where wood expansion or joint flexing will take place as it will break, 2. It stinks, literally. Hyde Glue has many fine properties but don’t throw away your PVA glued, or your CA glues either.
On another note just because a piece of furniture has screws used on it doesn’t make it a throw away piece. Great video!
Boiled Bunnies! OH the humanity of it all!!! 🤢
It used to be made from horse's hide.
My teacher was a door and window maker and he used it.
But Titebond just fine. (I'm not a luthier I'm just old)
I like fish glue as well. No heat required and cleans up really well. Works great with dissimilar materials. Great for binding, inlay, fret and crack repairs on musical instruments, and gluing nuts and saddles. Long open time when you need it.
Skipped the PVA glue and moved to hide glue.
Then i skipped the hide glue, too...
and moved to fish glue.
Reasons:
Same advantages you mentioned for the hide glue, but
+ longer open time (well, at least for me it's a pro. Some might consider this as a con)
+ way better smell (though it's fish. Counterintuitive, i know)
+ keeps good forever in wet condition (actually maybe not forever. But i keep a quarter filled bottle since 3½ years and i am testing it every now and then. Just for curiosity. And it still glues like a charm. No denaturation, no mold, still glueing great)
+ no fiddling around with hot water pots. This stuff works without any prep-hassle (almost) year round. Fish live in cold water, that's why their proteins (our 'glue') have to be flexible/elastic in cold conditions (39F/4C). In contrast to the animals that hideglue stems from: those proteins 'operate' at higher body temperatures.
Only in very cold settings fishglue becomes quite viscous, but a quick bath in warm tapwater is enough to do the trick.
Oh, and cold sourroundings shorten the open time, probably also because of the viscosity.
A workshop with "room temperature" is recommended or one should at least warm up the workpieces before glueing.
+ glues lots of other materials, like metal, glass or stone.
I used fishglue to attach leather pieces to my holdfasts (to prevent marring the wood). That was five or six years ago. Still holding up fine.
+the bond fishglue forms with the wood is way stronger than hide glue.
I even think it's stronger than PVA glue, but that might be an subjective impression.
One additional tip to hide glue:
If you want your hideglue to last longer, don't store it 'wet'!
Let it dry completely and it keeps good forever.
To use it again you have to 'revive' it by adding water and heating it up.
Fish glue is weaker than hide/bone glue. There is also quite the difference in hide glue (in Germany we call it "Hasenleim" which basically means it's made from the skin of rabbits) and bone glue (Knochenleim). Bone glue is the strongest of the natural glues, with one exception that is a special type of fish glue. In general the normal fish glue is as strong if not a tiny bit weaker than regular Hide glue (light brown), but weaker than bone glue (really dark grown).
The "special fish glue" is called Hausenblasenleim in Germany, meaning it's made from the bladder of the fish: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_glue
I used the TiteBond hide glue on an Early American maple chair which had to be completely disassembled and re-glued. It worked well.
Excitement about something that works? Shows you are IN TO IT! I make my own oil/beeswax finish and shellac now.
Thank you fellow Texas woodworker
I’ve been wanting to try that myself
Using a heat gun strategically works wonders. i keep hide glue in the fridge in my shop and if i want some for touch-up or small project just heat the surface use what you need then throw it back in the fridge,
Thanks for the tips! hide glue was used for centuries, always wanted to try that one day.
We used to boil hide in water and use it for carpentry and leather works 50 years back. It will soften with hot water. Regards
Great info on hyde glue!
Interesting seeing your backdrop switching/flip-flopping sides?!
Hello,
I suppose, that hide glue is the equivalent to the German Knochenleim := bone glue. I use it in the same way and for the same reasons as the commetator Jean Paul Peeters. Mostly it's used for the restauration of historical, wooden string instruments, such as Mandolines, Lutes, Guitars etc. and, as he is telling, it's no problem, to remove the parts by heating them, sometimes supported by hotwater or steam. One can even correct a glue t.e., if the soundboard wasn't glued correct to the body side by heating it to 40-70°C. The filling of cracks with this dark glue is another advantage. Getting hard and brittle is not only good for the sound transfer, but also for mechanical treatment, such as sanding. But one has to pay attention to not getting the sanded parts to hot. If so, it gets greasy and sticky again.
One more advantage: If you don't need it, just let it dry. Next time you want to use it, pour little water in, let it swell for a few hours, heat it to 40°C and use it as before. If it is to stiff, mix a little more water to it.
The biggest disadvantage: To get the best glueing results, you have to work very fast and precise. If the bone glue gets cold or dry, it won't glue the way it's meant to be. It often helps to carefully preheat the parts to glue with a heat gun or a sodering torch.
When I started restoring instruments, I was very unhappy with the charakteristics of normal wood glue. Easy to handle, but ...Somewhere in a description of historical carpentry work I found bone glue to be the common glue of this time. I bought the raw material and learned by try and error how to handle it.
Regards
Th. Krapf
I've been very pleased using Liquid Hide Glue. In a downstairs workshop drawer, it remains good for years too.
is it stainable? i intend on using this glue and plan on using stains
How does your glue compare to old brown?
What would you use on a high stress point where frequent pulling ?
Tips: Preserve your hide glue in refrigerator, and reheat it when you want to use it
What's with the saw till and electrical box switching sides?
I use old brown glue in the summer. It’s great in summer.
This is new to me. Thanks for this video
When I worked in the cabinet-shop (back when there was only one Titebond -- The Original), during the heat of the summer as I was gluing up (say) door panels for kitchen cabinets, 40 minutes was all the time the panel was in the clamps. If I glued them up in the morning, I could plane, cut to size, and run them through the panel raising (shaper) bit in the afternoon. Never had a problem with delaminating at the glue joints. Perhaps the formulation for the glue has changed ?
I absolutely agree. I started using it last year and absolutely love it.
Thanks! this was really interesting to someone who has never considered this route before.
thanks Chip!
Just what I needed to hear. Thanks!
Hide glue is great. It doesn't need clamping in many applications it shrinks tight when it dries,hence the many glue blocks used in very old furniture. Its ok to use untill you find yourself in a large glue up and you don't have time to clamp and check your final alignment .
Biggest problem is when you retire and move the tropical climes like north Queensland or florida and all your furniture and musical instruments fall apart.
High strenth pva is cheap ,easy to use,will last longer than you will ,and with a little care to prevent squeeze out damaging the porosity of your wood and subsequently stain finish is a great glue
We used to have a two part glue for external joinery ,sashes doors etc called urea formaldehyde. I don't know if it can be bought in small quantities but it was crazy strong, had gap filling abilities and cleaned up with water.
Poison piss
Aerolite 306 or similar.
@@BillDavies-ej6ye it was a urea powder and formaldehyde resin, yellowish colour when mixed. For some reason we changed to resoursonol, brown and not as thick and was mostly used for glueing finger jointed stock and laminated beams for building construction.
Ps: glacial acetic acid, thinned 1 pert acid to 10 parts water applied to clothing and left to set for about twenty min. And then laundered will usually remove the glue, you may have to do this more than once though...
Ceratin glues, collagen glues - really great stuff, though not as easy to handle as "standard" wood glue, and some them are pretty smelly when in liquid form (depending on the manufacturer).
Can you use colorants in hide glue?
Yep. Love the Hot Hide Glue. Been using it for near on 40 years now. And yeah, no more Hold Heet Glue pots.. Kinda sad as they are the best. Mine is still going strong.
hanks for the information
one question why is he reason using urea
Another acoustic instrument maker here - I couldn't agree more, hide glue is the best. I use it (and fish glue where really long open time is needed) for all sound-critical joints. I'm happy with PVA, CA and other glues where appropriate, so I'm not a fanatic about hot hide glue. A couple of maybe useful points from my experience:
1. A baby bottle warmer has worked perfectly for me for 10 years. I calibrated it when I got it and now just leave it at the same heat setting the whole time.
2. Hide glue freezes well when made up. This gives it a very much longer life without spoiling and you can just take it out of the freezer and throw it in the bottle warmer when needed. I haven't noticed any degradation in joint strength after even multiple periods in the freezer and reheating, but have to say I make up a fresh batch for any really critical joints, just from an abundance of caution. Any left at the end of a day goes straight into the freezer.
3. To minimize the risk of a bad joint through 'gelling' before I can get the parts clamped together, I paint glue on both parts, so the wood to glue connection on each part is always while the glue is liquid. If it gels slightly before clamping up, it doesn't matter - the glue will meld into itself perfectly well.
4. Many joints don't even need clamps - a rubbed joint (parts should be PERFECTLY mated, no gaps) will be 'self-clamping'.
I tried gluing a guitar neck on.. both sufraces were flat as poss... no dovetail or anything... rock hard wood... so I thought to take up imperfections make the hide glue thick... after 24 hrs pulled apart....didn't clamp as read hide glue not needed as pulls surfaces together.. (I think thats wrong now though).. glue was still rubbery and not sure there was even good contact between surfaces... I heated the glue too hot... steam was coming out of it.. any ideas?
Does Hyde Glue still smell like death?
I come from a book binding background and remember the smell of the Hyde Glue as it was heated on a cold winters day. It was revolting
Thank you 😊
Love hide glue and have even made my own by shaving down fresh deer hides I stretched in a frame. I've heard that the type of animal the hide comes from can make a difference, but I don't know if that's just an old wive's tale or not. Not that it matters, since there's not much you can get aside from "rabbit skin" hide glue in granulated form.
Now THAT is making your own glue!
@@FranksWorkbench II still have some if you'd like to try it out! Part of the brain-tanning using the "dry scrape" process pretty much means you'll end up with all kinds of shavings to make glue from. 😀
Have you ever put hide glue on flat glass to decorate it? I love listening to the snap, crackle and pop.
Seems the challenge I run into is finding the raw ingredients locally. Shellac flkes cant seem to be obtained from Ace or True value in my area anymore.
Woodworkers source or woodcraft are my local options, but they're 30 and 80 minutes away. I can surmise that the glue flakes will be similarly rare. Good to know that it can be done though! 3 ingredients. Simple enough!
Old hide glue can be loosened in say dining chairs by injecting Methylated spirits into the joints, this will stop damage to the wood and is easily cleaned up with hot water and a brush. Also great for veneering when using a warm iron as you will get a second chance if things don't go right.
As an artist, I have used hyde glue, and if you have sealed the glue, its fine, however, beware, in temperature above 120 F, it MELTS. Melts. It will run right out of your work, or otherwise loose its adhesion, for as long as it is hot. For the trouble, I, as an artist, have switched to PVA glue for my needs as an artist, lol, the benefits are so much better, if not for the trouble of making the glue alone.
I repair rustic furniture and a hot-air gun is my go-to tool for removing broken chair rails etc. because they are made with hide glue. I’m not a fan of using it for new work because it’s a pain to keep the pot hot.
Very interesting, Frank. Never heard of many of the traits you point out.
Good show!
Urea isn't needed if the work is preheated.
You don't do any preheating?
THANK YOU!! This is great to see how you’re using it, and thanks for sharing your recipe 👽👽👽
anytime!
Would adding high proof alcohol (grain or rubbing) help prevent mold growth? Would it adversely affect the setting properties, or would it evaporate off when you warm the glue for use?
I've used alcohol injected into a joint to break the glue bond on antique furniture. I don't know how that works, but it kind of crystalized the old glue. So maybe not a good idea.
I see there are other luthiers in the world. If you have been trained within a luthiers guild; you get at least two weeks of nuttin’ but different types, mixtures, and proper applications for all tone woods. That was 40 years ago and I go back to those notes almost weekly.
I have a wax warmer, you know, for when you're waxing your bikini line 😅 I got it very cheap, but it works fine. And if it breaks some day, I'll buy a new one. I actually have an old glue pot, but I don't have a hot plate in the workshop.
The smart thing about wax warmers is that they maintain a steady temperature for as long as it's on-which can be for days. When I got it I measure the temperature so I know where the 60° C mark is on the Low High scale. For wax it doesn't need numbers, because it's already made for wax, measuring it for glue is, however, necessary.
I generally use Titebond for my guitar fixing needs and it seems to work well... thanks for the info. :)
Will hide glue bond to substrates besides wood? I’m looking for adhesive to bond aluminum to wood for a jewelry box and hoping to avoid epoxy because of the space it takes up. Hide glue is awesome in tight joints per my reading.
From what i understand from hideglue.
Use what you need, then let the unused glue completely dry out. Don't let it sit in a container as a liquid. Take it out from its container, and put it on non stick paper or a old plastic bag, then let it dry, then collect it, snap it in to small pieces and put it in a open air container. And once you need it again, add water and a little bit of heat to make it in to glue again.
Sure there will be more work every time you need to use it, but it should also last you a lot longer. and less of a chance for it to go bad.
Equal parts water and glue, by weight is what I do. Slightly more water for thinner, or less for thicker.
Can put lid on jar and keep in fridge for a week or two, but have to reheat.
There are different "weights" of hide glue, heavier weight sets up quicker but is stronger. I use 192 for guitar/violins, heavier is usually just for furniture, less is for jewelry boxes. Can use 192 for just about everything.
Can still get glue heating pots from luthier supply (violin making companies)
Have you tried/reviewed Fish Glue? It cures much like hide glue but has a longer working time. Available from StewMac
Interesting, thank you! But no I haven't tried it yet
Thanks Frank!
What can you say about Titetbond hide glue if you compare it to the home made hide glue?
I've used it without apparent problems, but I know luthiers who say it isn't as good as Old Brown and have had it fail on them. They know a lot about hide glue, so I've decided to make my own, like Frank here, and not use Titebond's again.
Hide glue is great for spindle chairs or stools; it will be rock solid. With PVA glue, the chair will flex.
I’m really glad you made this video. I’ve always wondered how you made yours. I’ve been using old brown glue for a couple of years (mainly for joinery) and even asked the owner a couple of questions. He told me it’s best to leave items clamped overnight.
I use titebond original to make panels because it’s easy,comes out of clothes, and creeps less than titebond 2/3.
I think everyone needs to at least give liquid hide glue a try with joinery because it really lowers the stress and joints just slide together.
overnight for PVA? I leave it in clamps for an hour and that's plenty. I've tried hammering apart PVA glued pieces after 15 minutes and it did not come apart.
Alright guys, enjoy the video. Ends the video. 😂
I still enjoyed it lol. Great information and cool to hear about this alternative. You really laid out some really good points about the pros and cons.
I use personally Cascamite. Hide glue is from animals, and i don’t like that. Cascamite is also outstanding for outdoor use. And also no problems with staining..
pull something apart that was built about 1850...
instruments...
or timber foundry patterns. all the old pattern books recommend batches. clean pot, clean water, clean everything... it doesnt store well.
also possibly the source of "double gluing".
youre "sealing the grain", lets you take off any of those little whiskers that love to pop up, get the joint really tight... and extends the working time when you actually do go to glue it... less water being sucked out.
I've been using hide glue for about 10 years and for any musical instruments and speaker cabinets it's essential as Titebond acts like plastic separators between the wood parts. Hide glue lets the wood parts to become one and resonate as one so you get a massively better tone. I've only used hide glue from Ragland Piano, mostly 251. The Titebond hide glue is total bullshit to me, it's not real hide glue. I've never had hide glue go bad, and I'm sure you could scrape hide glue off a 1600's violin and reuse it. I always store it in the fridge at the back of a shelf. I've had some for several years and it never went bad in the fridge. I heat it up on the stove but for small repairs I use the microwave (carefully in 5 - 15 sec blasts). One thing is, after you glue something up, spend quite a bit of time cleaning up the excess glue with a chisel (put the scraped stuff back in the jar then in the fridge) as when it's hard it's like glass. Use boilng water to clean up, dip the chisel in it. I've had no problem dismantling stuff, I just use a household steamer, a $100 Wagner. You can put hide glue on two pieces of wood and rub them together and the glue will grab and often there's no need for clamps. I have never added anything to the hide glue except water. A very cool thing is that hide glue sucks together as it sets so all my joints look way better with it, which helps because I'm not a good woodworker.
Does the fact it dries rock solid make it less suitable for applications where wood movement needs to be considered?
not sure but I havent run into any problems yet
I use the Tite Bond glue hide . Good for now
Thanks Frank. I've been using hide glue (mostly Liquid Hide Glue from Titebond) but looking to make my own. I already dissolve up my own shellac and as much as I love Tried and True finishes, I'm thinking of refining my own linseed oil. As such, making my own hide glue doesn't seem that weird at all. If not, I'm thinking of going over to Patrick Edward's Old Brown Glue like you suggested.
On the Fixing Furniture TH-cam channel, he adds some white vinegar to joints with hide glue if they don't come apart easily. Seems to work well. Worth looking into vs. heat and steam.
Thank Joe! you sound a lot like me LOL i do the same with shellac so I can use everclear instead of denatured alcohol. Ill have to check that channel out!
One of the common finishes for wood boats is equal parts pine tar and linseed oil thinned with turpentine, and if a shinier finish is required, shellac flakes can be added. I use pine tar and turpentine for everything that'll be outside and love the look it gives. That the pine tar and turpentine both have natural anti-microbial properties is a real bonus for woodwork that'll be outside. I've been curious about adding hide glue to the mix for various jobs to see if it would harden a little like the shellac does.
Mmm urea in its wet form, better known as "addblue"in Australia used with diesel fuel in European trucks etc.
Thank you Frank
yes sir!
Be very very aware! The modern Hide glues (animal protein) are simply compromised formulations which merely resemble the original. Hide glue was dispensed from an electric Hot Pot on a brush with a very short open time until it cooled rock hard. Glue out would chip a hand plane's blade. Alcohol would fracture the adhesive. Extremely difficult with which to work from the Hot Pot. It was a very messy Pot. I remember when Elmer's White Glue use became widespread. The messy stinky Hot Pots vanished overnight. I can still remember that smell and sight. A miracle glue, that white stuff. Later the formulation changed to Polyvinyl Acetate. The original PVA was used by young Boy Scouts to coat newspaper for the sides of small canoes. It was waterproof. Mothers complained it wouldn't wash out of their boys' clothes so polyvinyl alcohol was added to the formulation for washing. Mexico is supposed to sell the original formulation.(???). The modern squeeze bottle stuff is do full of fillers to avoid Hot Pots that I would never trust it for any project. Well, maybe cardboard?
Baby warmers that go up to 70 degrees celsius are perfect. Bone/hide glue should not be heated above 60°C or it will weaken. Don't know what that is in "imperial".
Great video.
Look, the man that taught me about cabinet making when I was about ten (i'm nearly 70 now) showed me about Titebond II. We built a couple of dozen drawers WITH NO FASTENERS for kitchen cabinets. Mr. Rice said the glue joints were stronger than #4 brad nails. He had me 45* miter cut 2 1x4's of birch, glue only one and hot hide glue and nail the other. three days later I clamped one side in the bench vise and pulled one the right-angle to break it apart. The brad nailed gave easily. It took all I had to break the Titebond II and the 1x4 Birch board FAILED, NOT THE GLUED JOINT!!! Titebond III is STRONGER! Mr. Rice told me dovetails weren't needed anymore in 1963, but for show, finger-joints cut well and glued would hold all the plywood could, and he was in his late 80's. He had built cabinets in the oil millionaires' mansions up and down Main Street in Tulsey Towne, Indian Territory well before Statehood! I build loudspeaker cabinets with what he taught me, and they have to withstand vibration and not leak ANY AIR ait 163 decibels (louder than 2 feet from an F16 at full-throttle at take-off).and I use no fasteners.A Titebond III joint has never failed me. Mr. Reeves my ELEMENTARY skrul Shop Teacher also swore by Titebond II and III when it came out when I would have been in 5th Grade. Mr. Reeves gave us two 8 foot long 2x6's to glue-up with TB III. over-lapping a foot.
No nails, no screws.. He put 8 of us on the long end with one end in an 12" winton bench vice. It sounded like a shotgun when the 2 by let go and our hands all stung!
I'm pleased to find someone else who uses glue only. I have made tables ,cupboards, stools and benches . Also musical instruments, all with no nails screw's or dovetails.
I have made two small boats using epoxy glue and screws but removed all the screws when the glue set.
I've learnt to trust glue.
Hide glue is very worthwhile in some cases. However PVA glue only became prevalent because of the negative aspects of hide glue. e.g Using hide glue in an area with high humidity and/or temperatures that go over 80 F degrees, probably is not the best idea.
I live in a higher humidity area with a huge range of temperatures... From negative 60 to positive 130...
Does this just mean it would need to be made and used all up same day or that the glue would fail in extreme temperatures or where there are big changes between days (sometimes the weather is 40-60 degrees different in a day or the same day)... I see there are different grams involved... Maybe some mixes are better in different climates or seasons?
I love your stuff man. Good morning from San Antonio!
thanks man! Lived in San Antonio for several years, there was a cool hardwood store there pretty close to the med center Alamo hardwoods I think it was
I use a wax heater - available online in the UK for less than GBP20
thanks
Do you not use hide glue in a cast iron double boiler you can use it over again a few times buy just heating back up in a double boiler
Hide glue is great, but it stinks and it contain protein so it can start to mold (which can be seen on old instruments). Reversibility is actually better with Titebond as it only require heat, hide glue require both heat and moisture to release.
hide glue has been used by luthiers for centuries
Ive got multiple bottles of titebond that have gone bad and are no longer usable, so thats a wash.
Hi there, thanks for a video that's different from the rest out there. Is hide glue better on human lungs than PVA glue? Thanks.
Absolutely!
@@FranksWorkbench Yet another benefit. Thanks for responding.
Did you tried the gummy bear glue from Chris ;)?
no I haven't does it cure hard or gummy??
@@FranksWorkbench it’s…perfect !
I wanna try
I mix my own shellac why not hide glue
Here's a tip!----this is knowledge sharing. maybe.
The most important step in use of hot glue is one must preheat the wood.
We purchase 50lb drums of hide glue when needed.
We glue very large objects " piano SB's" and everything wood, loose veneer etc.
Also we always do a dry clamping run, clamp everything without glue first so there is no delay running to look for or adjusting clamps.
If the wood is room temp and the glue is 140degF or so,,,the wood will gas off while at the same time "gelling" if our glue gels up before everything is clamped we abort the mission and start over---period. = loss of time and pissed off. Bummer!
Hot watery glue will make the room temp wood gas off! forcing the glue out of the pores and cooling off, then the bond is compromised. = weakened.
Just to note!!
Hmmm---Watching many many videos of fiddle repair persons you will never ever see them preheat the work???
BUT! that would make the pieces a lot easier to pry apart later on after many years or so.
Hmm,,,,maybe that is why? maybe that is one of the secret's. LOL.
Hide glue seems to be a mysterious topic lately in the guitar world.
Also plastic under the clamping blocks will prevent moisture from escaping and that can be a bummer,,,,heavy paper will absorb a great deal of that moisture, it;s the best way to keep the glue from sticking the clamping blocks.
Oh yes,,Ive mentioned microwaving your glue in seconds, especially tiny amounts.
No need for the pain in the butt glue pot, This glue pot thing is what is most discouraging.
Hide glue folks hey,,,,try it you will like it!.
However for felting piano actions 88 little felts x 6 or 8 = 500 + pieces yes- glue pots we still use.
I had a big shot the "arch poopery" U-Tuber he totally poo pooed the notion of microwave = closed minded ass, oh well? No gain there.
Did you ever hear the notion of the leading a horse to water but you can't make them drink??
Well,,people too it seems.
R.B. Hampshire piano.
Western MA.
Wood "even sealed" has dimensional changes with humidity, When the glue is brittle it eventually fails from this. A little creep is a good thing in wood.
Where you at in Texas? Just curious cause I live in Texas also. Don't worry I'm not gonna start stalking you or anything 😂 Great video. Really cool stuff to know about hide glue.
Thanks! Dfw area
@@FranksWorkbench Cool! I live in the San Antonio area but I've got family around there.
Great video(s), but why do you keep flipping between mirror images? Things change position Left to Right; slightly disconcerting.
Aah, OK, seen it - meant to reinforce messaga about reversibility 👍
Merci !
If hide glue is great for joints then why not panels?
It would be just fine for panels, many do... old habits die hard I guess