This is a great reason to get into vintage Seiko; it's what I did! Either the golden-era craftsmanship of vintage Seiko is enough to get you to great accuracy, or you blame the age for the inaccuracies. It's a win/win!
Shhhhhhh! Keep quiet! Let the intelligent ones get the (affordable) high quality vintage Seikos and King Seikos! Let the ignorant masses keep eating the modern garbage!
Seikos lack of accuracy is what kept me away from adding one to my collection. At $1k & more, they should provide better accuracy specs, especially since Seiko can do it. Seikos fan base will defend that flaw at any cost, giving Seiko no reason to change that anytime soon. Thanks for covering that topic.
I bought a 10 year old SKX and brought it to my local watchmaker. He said the watch is running perfectly, but I have him $50 to regulate it and lubricate whatever he thinks it's necessary. The watch now runs about +2spd, and it's just so charming.
This is an interesting topic. I own a Seiko mini turtle with the 4r35 movement that runs at +2 sec a day and a new SPB197J1, the Alpinist European edition with the 6r35 movement, that runs at +20 sec a day. For sure when you spend more money at around 1k you expect a better accuracy than -15 +25...
Totally agree with that. My 6R35 are either very accurate or a lot off. And for the SPB149 you spend more than $1k so you would expect better than that. When you can get a Tissot Powermatic 80 Chronometer on Jomashop for $400
The newer Powermatic 80 movement from Swatch are quite accurate and reliable. They use them from Certina to RADO and they have been extremely accurate in my experience from owning many of them.
Yeah, a friend of mine has the Hamilton Khaki Aviation "Cooper" with that movement, and says it's been running a solid -2sec/day over the year he's had it. That's within COSC. Definitely a solid value, and under $1K list. It's high on my next watch purchase list.
I've never had any major issues with any of mine, and their accuracy is much better than spec. When it comes to servicing, on most of the low to mid tier models, it's just cheaper to replace the movement than to have it taken apart. However, if you're so inclined, you can modify them to your liking. There's a huge community for that.
Ima not a rela fan of seikos but of watches in general- As far as i Know, if your watch do not perform good accuracy ,, go to a good watchemeker,, they are needing a good clean adn tune up Sometimes worng oils are used, etc I think it can make 5 seconds witha good tune job on it. easly. If you use an automatic , maybe you need to use it more time Pendulum bearings must be well cleaned and lubrificate with a grease. If it looses accuracy hes saing.. job service needed, and dont waste too much time watch start deteorating after that..
As a former Seikoholic, Seiko has become garbage. In the last year I purchased a SBDC077 diver (misaligned chapter ring of course) and a SBDC093 Alpinist with -6 min a day. Replaced it 3 time and that 6R35 movement always had issues. Lesson learned, hello Switzerland!
I love seikos divers, but I stick to their solar and other quartz, they are very accurate, even for quartz. Ive learned the mechanical seikos are overhyped and market leadning in being poor value for money...
Seiko's auto/mechanical heyday was the 60s/early 70s. Their modern offerings are generally pass. Grand Seiko is better, but they've lost their way in terms of design.
Absolutely - if I want a 4wd for play I'll go euro, when my life depends on getting the job done, I'll go toyota. Same with seiko, desk diving with no consequences? Swiss! Out in the middle of no where relying on my watch? Seiko.
My SKX007 is about as accurate as a sundial, but I still love it. Some watches have personality sufficient that we can forgive them small inadequacies like poor timekeeping! 😄
Agree - I consider myself a watch enthusiast and I like different watches for different reasons - as do most watch people. I like the Seiko history and their variety of watches. Take care.
@@checksix_TC I hear you, but I would say that it depends largely on what your expectations are when it comes to the watch, and what value you seek to receive from it. If I personally wanted to ensure that my watch is going to be precisely accurate at any given time - I’d wear a quartz watch. For me at least, watches are no longer about precision time-keeping, they are more akin to jewelry or art, delivering intangible value. A phone without service is useless. A watch that keeps less than perfect time still has a lot to offer.
well depends maybe its you Due to my work i cant mis anyhting for more than 5 minutes so i need accuracy.. usaually i star using a mechnical watch oustisde my job and checking it when i completly trust it then i start to use it.
I was a Seiko fanboy for a long time. But I got tired of the quality control issues and poor time keeping. I sold most, kept the most accurate and had one movement replaced. No more Seiko for me.
Seiko's strong suit is design and quality of the case finish. With much hype in the internet, I always get drawn to them. Swiss watches tend to be boring design wise. That being said though, I always end up selling my Seiko. Reason? Very poor in the time keeping department. I've never had a Seiko that run slow though, but they run really fast! 15-20+ secs per day fast, which is very annoying!
It would be interesting to see how many fanboys will continue to buy Seikos as the brand keep increasing the price without improving the timekeeping and quality control.
This reminds me of a problem I have with many watch reviewers on TH-cam. They hardly ever say what the observed accuracy is of the watches they have in the possession. I would think they would do so. Thank you for your content John P!!
I have a few Seiko watches, some off by a few seconds a day and some by ten or so. I’m not timing rocket launches for NASA so I don’t need the watches to be spot on. I buy Seiko for their designs and overall reliability and value.
My thinking exactly, I can typically regulate all of mine to within 10 seconds a day and rotate through watches often so they never stay running more than about 2 days anyway.
I personally love the Seiko designs. I wish they would upgrade their specs, but my guess is most of their watches are made by robots or machines, and shipped without much human adjustment in order to keep prices relatively low. So basically, it's like an accuracy crapshoot when you buy one of their watches. The real problem comes in when you need help with one of their watches. One option is to send it in under guarantee. I've hear and read so many bad things about their NJ service center that this is just not something I could do. Most watch repair places will say to send it in and won't fix it. Or they'll say that parts are hard to get or tell you the accuracy will never be great, and just live with it etc. Almost all roads lead back to NJ, which sucks. From what I can gather, the main issue is sourcing parts. Seiko seems to have a stranglehold on their parts.
The accuracy pendulum swung wide for me: last year I got a Hamilton Khaki Field Automatic that gets about +2 seconds per day. This year I got a Seiko Alpinist SPB155J that loses about 12 seconds per day. I know I won't be late for any appointments from wearing the Seiko, but for over $700, they should regulate their watches. My local watchaker said it's not possible to correct a watch by a mere 12 seconds so I either sell it or live with it. "The other day, a fellow came up to me and said: "Hey buddy, do you have the correct time?" I said: "Sorry, my watch is a Seiko!" (Ba-dum, bum!) Ahhh, I get no respect....
It's really hard to argue with the points raised. I suppose we still buy these watches because of the designs, availability and the brand history and turn a blind eye to these issues....
top grade ETA 2824 time keeping is stated as +/- 15 seconds per day, thats sat in swiss watches retailing over 2k usd, tudor black bay 36 for example, sw200 is pretty similar tbh. i get what you're saying john, but when you're looking at $1000 swiss watches, there are not that many with cosc movements outside of swatch group.
So what about the chronometer graded $400 and less tissots with Swiss movement on Jomashop? Powermatic 80 chronometer certified Tissot Ballad currently for $395
I love my Seikos and have 4 watches with the 6R35 movement in it. But man the accuracy is all over the place. Some great, some not so much. And all these watches were $600-$1,500. 🤔the issue is. These watches can be regulated very well. Seiko just chooses not to put in the effort. I would happily pay $50 extra for a well regulated 6R35 movement.
@@koolpep i did say outside of swatch group, tbh thats great value. you can look at tudors and many other brands with non cosc 2824/sw200 retailing well into the thousands that have similar variations to seiko 6r35 movements. don't get me wrong, i do wish seiko would tighten up the variation spec for their movements. however, it actually is pretty close to the two major movements - 2824 & sw200 that are fitted to most swiss made watches in a similar price band - 500-2000 usd.
@@neilgordge9360 we totally agree here. None of my Swiss made movements performs as bad as my Seikos out of the box. Still love my Seikos but the sad thing is that the movements ARE capable of keeping better time, probably within cosc easily, if regulated properly. Seiko just doesn’t bother. A good watchmaker easily can regulate the 6R35 to very good specs.
John- go vintage Seiko since you are the vintage guy. A 6139, 6138, or 701x Speedtimer chronograph is a great addition. You just need to be sure you are buying an original one. I have over 30, they are my vintage watch focus.
Hmmm. It’s well known however that these are safe values being provided. On average they keep good time in my experience. As an example, I have among others an Orient ray raven as work horse. It’s already within + / - 10 sec per day. And it’s a basic entry level within the Seiko group. All other Seikos all well below that.
I own an SKX007, an SNK809, an SRPE93, and an SRPD53. All of them get me through a day of work just fine. I'm a little OCD so I end up setting the hackable ones to my Multiband 6 solar G-Shock, and I do the same to all my watches every few days. The accuracy really doesn't bother me, as all have functioned very well. Thanks for the video, you guys do a great job!
I bought a Seiko 5 recently for £125 it’s a few years old but it was new old stock. I got it to see if I could live with poor time keeping. Over 6-7 days ending last weekend it did a ridiculously good -0.1 seconds a day, in the last 3 days it’s done 0.9 seconds a day. Last time I checked over a day it was around 8-10 second out. Now I’m worried about buying a luxury watch as the time keeping will likely suck compared to that.
Great video, anyone who is considering buying a seiko should know about their accuracy specially considering all the attention they get, the time keeping is simply not there, my baby marine master typically deviates around 1-2 minutes each week which is very annoying for long term use
Great points. Accuracy will really matter to the people that have one watch, especially if you're paying for the high end side of Seiko. Personally, I have multiple watches that I swap around every other day and I tend to stay in the affordable range and vintage category so I have very lax standards for accuracy to a certain extent. If i were to move up to the pricier Seikos, I would have higher standards. Thanks for sharing ~$1000 affordable alternatives!
The worst watch I ever owned was a Seiko 5 that I bought as my first “expensive” watch after I left University in 2001. It was around £100 in the UK. It used to gain 5 minutes per week and I got it repaired TWICE within the 12-month warranty. Then it just kept gaining the same 5 minutes per week after that too. I eventually just threw it away. I vowed NEVER to buy a Seiko again. I don’t care if it is Grand Seiko or not. If a $20 Casio can keep accurate time, then a watch that costs 5 times as much should have a decent timekeeping standard.
you're comparing Casio quartz watches with mechanical...these are more for enthusiasts, even super expensive ones can get inaccurate because of so many factors involved
usually they loose time dont gain.... maybe the watch was magnetizing , stange they ddint "repaired" it..maybe they ddint they were jsut lying to you..
Once I got a taste of COSC/METAS accuracy, I really can't stand excessive gain or any loss in time. Luckily for my Seikos over the years, if they don't come accurate, it is easy to regulate it yourself and very cheap to get it done by a watchmaker close by. From my dozens I've had pass through over the years, I don't think I ever saw anything over +/- 10 out of the box new or used.
I like Seiko overall, but I don't get the cultish fanboy-ism they get. From quality control, to poor timekeeping (not all, i know).... don't get it. I do have some Grand Seiko on my list though, completely different obvi
I'd be really happy if I could get a 6R35 based Alpinist that meets its accuracy spec. First one was minus 30 to minus 50 s per day, depending on position. I sent it back. Now the replacement from Seiko is plus 30 to plus 70 s per day, depending on position. Really disappointing for a $600 watch.
The discrepancy of accuracy shown online is to save them from a possible liability from damaged movements in transport, my Samurai is +2s a day, Turttle Manta Ray - 1 a day, 5kx is +5 a day and are in part as accurate as my Rolex Day Date / Explorer II, Zenith El premero and Omega Seamaster 300
I find it hilarious that someone has an issue with the accuracy of Seiko watches, when most of the watches in the same price category are usually running an SW200, without COSC certification, and so are in almost the exact same standards of accuracy. Yes, you can get a Chronometer for $1000+, but you won’t get the design of a Seiko. If you want a Chronometer, buy one. If you want a Seiko, buy one. Who cares. If you are worried about the accuracy of a watch, then frankly you shouldn’t really be buying an automatic in the first place. That is not why most people do. I have several automatics, some that are COSC, and some that are not. I still don’t buy them to be exactly precise. If I really need that, I would wear a quartz watch or a spring drive. Now I do agree that the top end of the Seiko line over $2000-$3000 should at least offer a Chronometer movement as well. I really does suck that they do not offer something with a Chronometer or similar certification in their line at some point.
If accuracy is SOOO important, I'd rather spend the Seiko money on a Citizen EcoDrive atomic (or a $100 G-Shock M5610U atomic) and have it be more accurate than essentially any other watch on the market.
COSC certified, chronometer rated :))) I always find it hilarious when mechanical watch fans get anal about accuracy. It's like they get into their 1920s Rolls Royce (while wearing their top hat and monocle) and expect the same performance as a modern Honda Civic.
My cheap NH35 watch keeps time to within +/- 4 seconds per day. They are simple to regulate, I regulated mine, and I'm no watchmaker. John P seems to know the price of everything and the value of nothing.
GS aside, and the few Seiko branded pieces that use movements that were developed for GS watches, Seikos are only so-so timekeepers. I love them, and own 10+ Seiko autos using 7S26 and 4R35/36 movements, both of which are fine for watches that cost $100-$300, but they don't come anywhere close to the COSC ETAs found in my Mido and Rado pieces. Likewise for my old SARB 033 and 017, which ran so poorly I sold them off. Truly, after living with Seiko's supposedly better 6R15 movement in two separate pieces, I say don't waste your money. That's the most inaccurate movement I've ever owned, the 033 off up to 8 minutes per day if left on its side with the crown up. When worn it was relatively accurate (within Seiko's rather sad specs), but they don't adjust them for multiple positions, so they need to be worn 24/7 to maintain accuracy, and I have too many watches to wear one all the time. On that note, I know someone who owns a Seiko dealership, and they've said the same thing about the newer 6R35, and that they're experiencing plenty of complaints. On the positive, if you pay retail for a COSC Mido you'll most likely lose a lot of your "investment" if forced to sell, but if you purchase an overpriced Seiko 62 MAS reissue or one of the similarly styled lower priced alternatives, you'll probably make money, or at least not lose as much. There's a lot to love about Seiko, especially their vintage pieces, but if they want to play in Certina, Mido and Rado territory (or for that matter Tudor), they need to start shipping their premium pieces with their higher-end high-beat movements that do a better job of telling the time. Until then, they're losing their name for good value, and destroying the goodwill they've earned over the past many decades.
Hi John, thanks for this promotional video to the Swiss movements. Seikos movements have many followers by the simple fact of being reliable and having a quality well above its price and the best, if the movement breaks with little money you can change it without problems. Ahh and they do one thing very well for little money, they measure time just like any Swiss watch and have flaws just like many Swiss movements. I only have a Seiko 5 sports since 6 years ago and it moves forward 3sec per day, it cost me 130 dollars second hand, do you want something better? I think not?
This may sound simple but it is. Weishi 1000 for $250.00 in a couple of adjustments you can get +-3Sec easy and it will lock in there. Most of the brands mentioned require you to almost replace the watch for a serious service.
Any seiko over 500 is pushing it and over 1000 is a definite no go. Seiko makes great bargain watches that is all. If you want a high-end seiko then get grand Seiko (exception for the spring drive seikos... maybe...couldn't tell you since I haven't seen let alone held one)
The 2019 Rolex GMT batman and pepsi wouldn't of passed Cosc cert, Jodie of just one more watch tested both, and said the homage was a better watch, better time keeping, strap, and a bezel that actually lined up.
The stated accuracy for Seiko movements varies depending on the caliber family. The 4Rxx movements are the same as the NHxx movements sold by Seiko to other watch companies. The 8Lxx movements are variants of movements used in some Grand Seiko watches. 4Rxx (21,600 vph): -35/+45 spd 6Rxx (21,600 vph): -15/+25 spd 6Lxx (28,800 vph): -10/+15 spd 8Lxx (28,800 vph): -10/+15 spd You will see similar accuracy ratings for Citizen (Miyota) movements. 8xxx (21,600 vph): -20/+40 spd 9xxx (28,800 vph): Typically -10/+20 spd or -10/+30 spd You can compare this to the Swiss-made Selita SW200-1 (28,800 vph), which comes in four grades. Standard: +/-30 spd Special: +/-20 spd Premium: +/-15 spd COSC: -4/+6 spd My takeaways from this are 1) higher beat rate is fundamental to higher accuracy, and 2) Seiko and Citizen don't put much effort into regulating their watch movements at the factory. All of the above data is from the Caliber Corner website.
Swiss is still king of time keeping. My 400.00 Tissot Sea Star keeps -1 sec a day for a year now, Lume sucks though and rubber band is too narrow for serious diver use.
7s, 4r and 6r aren't really that great. Lots of positional variance and poor isochronism. The 6r seems to be particularly problematic, at least there's lots of complaints online. I bought sarb035, got a great price, but the accuracy has been so so. It started at plus 10, and now three months later, it's minus 7. I'm gonna have to crack it open and nudge the etachron lever. I pretty well agree with everything you said.
John Thank You for the vídeo. If You ask Hans he will be able yo explain how the Etas get regulated and cerificated by COSC. So all depends on hand work. So those Seikos, sometimes, do not even align properly....Want a better Seiko, Buy an Islander from Long Island watches.😎🤔
Seiko collexctor here who also loves Rolex. Here is my experience and recommendations: Sbdx017 (top recommended diver) - less than a second a day. Pretty close with my Submariner. Discontinued model, it is iconic Sekio diver design and best diver from their golden age of early to mid 2010s. Uses a grand seiko level movement. around $1800-2000 used. Sark003 (recommended chrono) - minus 5 seconds per day. column wheel chronograph (not integrated so it's thick) Best of this is the dial which is hand painted in Japanese lacquer called urushi. Very eye catching and good everyday piece. Around $2000 used. sbdc001 - minus 15 seconds. bang for your buck watch around $500 but the time keeping drove me crazy other seiko watches: sary087 - plus 10 seconds. dress watch around $700 my first seiko auto- minus 20 seconds
I have a lucky SKX. face up consistently 1 second plus beat rate error .7. Not bad for the base non hacking movement. I have ETA movements that are no better or slightly better. The thing I like about the Seiko is that it keeps power with my daily hand motion. My ETA autos, not as good.
Have a Seiko and a Tissot. The Tissot is COSC certified and very accurate, it did come with a certificate. The Seiko is inconsistent. It is ok sometimes but seems to be about 4 minutes fast after a few weeks.
Yep for some reason Seiko quotes a wider accuracy tolerance than seems necessary (after having owned many of them myself). Probably a lack of confidence in repeatable accuracy from the factory, concern about warranty claims, etc. They perform better than factory spec in my experience, but I still always prefer an equivalent ETA movement.
Used to be a Seiko fan and accuracy of their watches up to those using the 8L series of movements is really random out of the box. Could be to within a few seconds a day or better, but but can also be barely within their +15s and in one instance even faster for me. Truly feel they need to up their game the same way they are increasing the prices on their watches with their 6R and 8L movements. Otherwise, the just too many entry level Swiss brands offering better watched for similar cash.
I rolled the dice and bought a new MM 300. The 8L in mine honestly gives me +1.75 seconds a day. After a month it's not even a minute fast. I hack the second hand for a moment and I'm good to go. It exceeded my expectations in every way. Of course results may vary. I think it's worth every penny.
I was just thinking that no one ever talks about accuracy. What kind of time does it keep. All my Seiko watches are durable and reliable but about 15-25 seconds slow per day.
My seiko was running about +4 spd until i dropped it. Then it was running -60spd and I have found it impossible to get it back to where it was; mostly because of the regulating mechanism Seiko has in their watches. There is almost no way to fine tune it. So I'm settling now for +30spd. After doing more reading and finding out the differences between seiko movements and swiss movements and different methods of regulation i've been really turned off from lower end Seikos. The only models i would buy now are quartz, spring drive or their new 9S movements.
well maybe it jsut need a look to pivots.. a good service will fix it... all watches can be tune... if you dropa watch you cant complain even for quartz or even an IPHONE.
I currently own 2 seiko divers. They both run around +8. But I’ve had several in the past a they are hit or miss imo. I will always have seiko in my collection tho so I probably biased. I recommend the new mm200 reduced model (sbdc125) for u John p. I think it’ll fit your wrist pretty good.
I swap my watches on almost daily basis and have my Seiko Turtle in the rotation. Keeps good time but usually goes on the wrist for a relatively short time. And I am gladly using it as a proper diver. I would not take my Explorer out on the beach or dip it into seawater. Seiko perfectly does this ob for me. John asked for a comment.
You know what brands I've gone to since Seiko has increased prices without significantly upgrading the movements? Oris, Tudor, and Nomos. The competition is really intense in the 1000-4000 dollars range there. People often mention "Seiko makes all their parts in house". Well, so does Nomos.
Seiko makes all of their parts in house, Nomos just makes their movements in house. Nomos doesn’t make their own bolts, lubricants, etc., so it’s not “every part” the way Seiko is Is this important? Heck no, I’d rather have a Nomos, but I wanted to point out the difference
@@Sk3tchPad You know who makes all of their parts in house? Laterally any brand under the swatch umbrella. Hamilton, Tissot, Certina, Mido, Longines, Omega. Pick your poison
MM 300 8L35 it was fast +9 a day when I first wound it brand new from the box. It got better everyday until it settled down after a couple months. Now +2 or +3 seconds a day sometimes better. The last time I put it against my radio atomic G-Shock for 14 days it was +1.7 seconds a day. Anything mechanical needs time to break in before you evaluate it.
Question; With mechanical watches not really being used for any real meaningful timekeeping or navigation anymore, is the Cosc certification just a sales gimmick now? It feels like modern watches are more of a fashion item rather then a tool, would you rather buy the design or the accuracy?
The 4r and 6r movements' 21600 vph, lack of reliability and terrible positional variability were acceptable on watches costing $300. Now that Seiko has moved upmarket (in price only, they've improved nothing), they're putting those awful movements in watches costing north of $1000. That's just ridiculous. Seiko needs better movements, better bracelets, better clasps, sapphire crystals, and much better qc in order to earn their move upmarket. And speaking of QC, if you get a Seiko at any price (excluding GS, of course) and the bezel, the chapter ring and the indexes actually all line up, you should play the numbers, because it's apparently your lucky day. The fact that the overwhelming majority of their watches leave the factory with this flaw is unacceptable at any price.
What’s stopping me from buying the SPB 143 is the low accuracy movement of the 6R35. I really love the design of the watch but the movement is a complete turn off. I hope Seiko can see this channel.
Seiko have some interesting watches, but I think the standard Seiko line is getting a bit expensive, obviously they are trying to reposition the brand. Also, I can't stand the Prospex and Presage branding.
I currently have 10 Seiko watches in my collection, mostly new, but a few go back several years. I have returned somewhere in the neighborhood of 6 recent purchases because of poor timekeeping. I define poor as anything in the over 15 spd range. It's possible to get a new Seiko in the single digit accuracy range, but my recent experience (last 3 - 4 years) is they are the exception. My experience certainly doesn't qualify as statistically valid, but does raise the question, especially given that most of my recent purchases of Chinese "homage" watches with a variant of the venerable 4R movements (NH, in current parlance) have been in the sub 15 spd range. Seikos "5" line is their most popular range carrying this movement and they start in the $300 MSRP range and can usually be purchased for something just north of $200. The Chinese watches I'm referring to are typically $80 - $200. No originality in design and hard pressed to match Seikos case and dial finishing, but almost all of them have sapphire crystals, ceramic bezels, milled clasps and properly aligned markers and indices. You have to spend well over $500 for a Seiko with those attributes. The issue for me is why doesn't Seiko do even a modest level of regulation of their movements, as it appears at least some of their Chinese competition are doing? Isn't at least part of our fascination with mechanical watches the remarkable level of precision engineers can achieve using springs, gears, wheels and other components?
If "Grand" isn't in front of it, I'm not interested. Seikos made sense at $300. At 1k, Swatch group comparable brands blow them out of the water. Lume is all they're good for at this point. Fight me! lol
Currently seiko knocking it out of the ballpark aesthetically. Killer stuff. But the movement’s are garbage. Bought the SPB 62 MAS reinterpretation. Gorgeous looking piece. Kept good time for a few months then started dropping daily. Got a local seiko dealer to regulate it and was running within 2 secs a day for a while. Then again started dropping like crazy now around minus 30 a day. The 6R movement seems erratic and unreliable. Never again will I buy another no matter how stunning the exterior looks. For the money seiko now asking go for anything with a selita sw 200 or equivalent ETA that can be reliably regulated instead.
there are people that sue it for 3/4 hours and then put on the table, they are automatic,,thye need movement for a good charge, maybe it was recharging good,, 30 minutosa day is a lot, need a service too...
many buyers may have got accurate pieces, but i own a captain willard re-issue (which i like for its design, dial, heritage, etc.) running with +15 seconds/day. 👎🏼 of course, that is within seiko-standards, but, in contrast, every single swiss-made watch in my collection in that price range with an eta/sellita movement is running within cosc-standards (although not officially certified). definitely a difference in quality!
I have some the funny thing is that i got myself some mods base built on 6r35 or 6r15, mods are extremely accurate since an expert was regulating the movements, I've been comparing them to my new seamaster 300, no different, the 6r35 mod i'd say even better. Then I have the Sumo 6r35 and the spb149j1 6r35 those are better than the official specs mine -5 +7 , same movements than the mods but worse accuracy performance... by the way to me all of them great watches. I understand your point though
Many of the Swiss, German, French and even Russian watches tend to be much more accurate than promised. Seiko seems not to most of the time get even these loose specs they promise. You have to wear seiko for whole day to get even close to promised accuracy. Powermatic 80 can be left in watchbox for an weekend and stays on time.
Why buy a first hand Seiko for US$1-1.5k that is likely wildly inaccurate when you can get a secondhand COSC-spec Tudor for US$2-3k? I love both brands but if Seiko wanna play in the >1k space, they gotta step up their game.
The answer is obvious: you buy the Seiko because you can have it regulated and it costs $1000+ less than the Tudor. Also, you are skewing the price on the Tudors. There are countless Seiko models for under $1000 new. Show me the Tudor for $2000.
My Seiko 5 Actus is about +29 s/d. Not great, but it's serial number puts the manufacturing date at the same month and year as I was born, so it's old, lol! It's not running bad, probably just needs to be regulated. Bought it from a guy in France via Chrono, and it arrived way slow, like losing a minute or more per hour. Had to send it back for him to check it, looks like the balance got damaged in transit. Balance was replaced, and it runs well enough to wear for a day and not worry at all.
Thank you for sharing. Now I seemed to accept to adjust my Seiko Shadow Samurai. In fact I had it recalibrate 3 times already since last year, whereas the last two was just recently. The last one was a back job; 1 min. per day. Been comparing my two other watches Oris Big Pilot day date and my recent purchase of Certina Super 500M orange vs my Samurai the reason I notice its delay/needs to adjust.
This is the reason why I dont by a mechanical seiko. The movement does have precision but they dont regulate their watches to reduce cost in labour to adjust it. I would be willing to pay extra to get a regulated watch. Go with the eco drive quartz version if you get a seiko.
I have a Capt. Willard and similar ,movement with a steel bezel. I have no science on it's accuracy, but casual observations, what I've noticed is one loses like 4 minutes every two weeks, the other gains like 3 minutes every two weeks, lying on my desk, winding them, and sometimes I don't wear them for a few weeks. Problems with their movements is they vary in accuracy. Some people get better and worse accuracy. Both are in the $1200 JDM watches. Bezel lines up. I will get this they are durable. I think they quoted spec's are deliberate so they don't have to be sent back and put in an acceptable spec. Doesn't bother me, I just set them when I wear them. Your other recommendations are good. CW did give me a COSC sheet for a watch. In anycase love the Capt. Willard and no watch is perfect. In. the end get what you want and put a smile no your face. Options are good. Also if it really bothers you and it shouldn't have to be done for a money of this watch it shouldn't need to be done, and good local watch maker can adjust them for a limited amount of money. Not a fanboy. And own every brand of watch you mentioned and feel the same. Good review. Even Colin on the his website owns a King Turtle, and both he, you and myself know and understand Seiko's issues. FWIW I do like my Seiko's than my Tissot's.
My experience. Sarb033 25+ per day. Skx013 terrible maybe 45+, mini turtle was +15 ish, however I’m currently wearing a King Turtle and it’s running at 0 or close most days. It’s a total lottery. This I what puts me off I’d like a spb143 but I’m not shelling out over £1000 for something that might be + 25 per day. For that you can get a top grade Sellita in a Sinn.
I am guessing Seiko playing safe with what they advertise on their site. But i see his point, some of their watches are getting expensive. But i am into decent/cheaper movements with pretty dials.
Seiko watch movements are not regulated at all - they come off the factory line and whatever the timekeeping is, it is. As a CYA, they have very broad timekeeping specs as a result. They're usually much better (although not always). It's actually kind of amazing that purely by machine assembly they can get the timekeeping as accurate as it is with no regulation. If you have a timegrapher, its actually pretty easy to regulate them yourself.
Seiko was king of accurate mechanical movements from around 1965 to 1975 (Suwa Seikosha and Daini Seikosha). John failed to mention that during the 1960s Seiko was producing many high accuracy movements, which resulted in the Swiss cancelling their observatory timing competition. If you are looking for an accurate mechanical movement now, Seiko isn't the brand. Grand Seiko, however, is a completely different story and shouldn't be compared to Seiko at all.
This is my biggest issue with regular Seiko, the designs have become so popular that they can raise their prices, but for the price, swiss and german watches are just better.
Pretty much all watch Brands have been increasing their prices over the past 2 years. Seiko is not the only company to raise prices. The raise in prices has opened the door for all of the new "copy" watch companies to enter the watch sales arena. They can copy Seiko and other Brands almost identical aesthetically, but for really lower prices.
@@curious5557 I think you're missing the point. The issue with Seiko is that they are raising their prices while simultaneously lowering their quality.
@@NoShame86 Seiko quality is about the same as it has always been. You simply have more people talking about it because of social media. Every TH-camr who reviews a Seiko pretty much says the bezel does not line up. Seiko discontinued the SKX line and introduced the new Seiko 5, a lower tiered watch. They have other models to fit intro other levels.
That is my opinion too! They are extraordinary watches but you have to be patient . Once in 2 weeks you must reset it. My Seiko presage 1000 dollars and has a daily failure rate of plus 25 average. Disaster and when I talked to the boutique guy he said ooohhh that's normal!!! I wore a Seiko five for 17 years and I don't remember such great deviations. This is seiko's biggest issue I believe
The intersection of accuracy Vs. Price is certainly an issue for Seiko, but you can't really go with the numbers that Seiko publishes. The accuracy is generally much better then stated and the prices much lower; which changes the equation significantly, especially in the mid or low range. I do love the Alpinist, but is it worthwhile when I can get a Hamilton for MUCH less? But, at the end of the day how many people really give a toss about extreme accuracy in a mechanical watch? If you're buying a Seiko mechanical watch you are likely an enthusiasts with multiple watches and likely to switch around before 15 or 20 seconds a day would be a problem, much less
I've owned about 10 Seiko's. All hacking and handwinding (sorry SKX007). All of them could be regulated to within COSC. Since I can do that myself it's never been an issue.
Time keeping is important to me and out of the 4 Seikos I’ve owned, the WORST time keeper is my newest DressKX at -9 spd. Considering I paid $150 for it, I’m ok with this. I think the comment about liability made by another viewer is 100% correct.
People spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on vintage watches that keep horrible time. I don't think +25 /-15 for a well built sub $1000 watch is that bad
Yes but these Seikos are not vintage though. Given Seiko's technical and modern manufacturing capabilities, one would've expect a reasonable level of accuracy; especially given their recent price hikes.
@@NoShame86 if a watch costs around the $1k mark ( which is where seikos magic happens ) and gains or loses a little bit of time I don't see the big deal if it's a pleasing watch for owner and we'll built. Tell me in what circumstances you were a watch where you need it to keep COSC specs time? I have had modern rolex and JLC that gained or lost 15 seconds a day
I have a Seiko quartz diver that I've owned for 36 years that loses 1 sec between daylight saving time changes, which is wonderful even for quartz. My Seiko 5 (SNZG13K1) lose between 12-17 secs/day, which is truly awful. I had it serviced (for a price I could have just replaced it) and it was -6-7 for a while and then back to -12 or greater. I have been looking for a higher end watch and was looking at Seikos because I have a fondness for them, but I just can't deal with the accuracy of their autos. That has me leaning more towards Hamiltons for -$1000 and Ball for -$2000
John, great video as always. Very much enjoy your content, you don’t pull punches. I would recommend the Alpinist. The green dial is very well done and is a beautiful watch. That said, the strap that comes with the watch is crap.
I own a Seiko SLA021J1 for about 2 years. Worn it hard with all activities. Very consistent timekeeping at +6 secs/day. Crown up at night and it would level out to +1. I would rarely manual wind. Then recently I noticed the timekeeping way off. Slapped it on the timegrapher and noticed the beat error was way up. From 0.1 to 2.0. Off to Seiko USA for servicing. I was disappointed. Comparing that Seiko MM300 to my Omega Speedy which has had its fair share of mishaps and drops. The Speedy still keeps excellent time. So I bought a BB58 out of anger 🙃
You said it in the video yourself. Seiko can say "It is within specification." Do Rolex that you like to compare against, sell their movements to other watch manufacturers? Sekio deliberately specified "loose" specification accuracy specifications. And THAT is why most Seiko's always are more accurate and why all is saying the same thing. Seiko is smart and as a brand that has put all the swiss brands to shame in their own competition in Switzerland (Geneva observatory competition) back I'm the day. For just the accuracy! So they know how to regulate a movement better than the swiss in other words😂 But when they sell their movements to other watchmakers with that specification the customers know that they will deliver and Seiko minimize issues with "it is out if specification". A completely different business model that they have to play it safe in low margin movements production. And that is noting Rolex need to do. In short those accuracy specifications are deliberately conservative stated. And we are little bit fall in the trap that it "should" be regulated in 6 positions.😅😂 How is that helpful? Do we have the watch equally long time of the day with the crown up as with crown down? Of course not.. We do not go and point to the sky for hours each day!😂😅 Yes it is ideally that there is as little variance between the 6 positions as possible. The only true "position" that is relevant is that it is position at the unique individual that has it on his wrist and his individual usage. If that usage gives X seconds deviation.. Then THAT is what should be regulated and that is far better than bla bla 6 positions..😅 But we Seiko fans are more likely to fix the regulation by our self than any other watch brand community. ❤ Sharing is caring so we are less stuck in what is printed on the paper for its accuracy when that is less sat in stone.🎉
Any competent watchmaker can regulate these Seiko watches to keep excellent time. I used to have a SCSZ004 with 6R15 that kept better than COSC specs. Why Seiko doesn’t regulate them is a mystery. Just cause Seiko states a certain spec doesn’t mean it isn’t capable of better accuracy.
The movements in seiko are good the problem is even in the more expensive models is that they don't regulate them even the Marinemaster which has a grand seiko movement in isn't regulated which isn't good for an 3000 dollor watch. But if you get it regulated by a good watch maker (shouldn't be nessary) they keep really good time for example my MM 300 keeps withing 10 seconds a month.
As per my experience with the Prospex PADI, the Tuna Penguins and Monster 2nd gen. They were all inaccurate and with bad bracelet/rubber. Yet they are fun to collect.
Hmm. Vested interest? I've an 11 Seiko collection from SKX to Hi-Beat. All run within 6s/d. Most within 3, some at 1. On average, easily as good as my Swiss or German watches. For specced and performing accuracy, modern Rolex are very accurate, but a tad more expensive than a Seiko? My most accurate watch (apart from Spring Drive) - a Panerai. Seiko's lax specs should be tightened (if only to stop this weak criticism), but I've never encountered a Seiko anywhere near as inaccurate. They are well designed, affordable, reliable and accurate.
My Seiko SARB035 is running -5 sec/day. For comparison, my TAG Heuer 2000 I bought in ‘04, with an ETA 2824, runs +6 sec/day, & my Squale GMT, with a Sellita SW330, runs +2 sec/day, sometimes better!
This is a great reason to get into vintage Seiko; it's what I did!
Either the golden-era craftsmanship of vintage Seiko is enough to get you to great accuracy, or you blame the age for the inaccuracies. It's a win/win!
Shhhhhhh! Keep quiet! Let the intelligent ones get the (affordable) high quality vintage Seikos and King Seikos! Let the ignorant masses keep eating the modern garbage!
Yup, I have over 30 Speedtimers. It’s more like an addiction.
Seikos lack of accuracy is what kept me away from adding one to my collection.
At $1k & more, they should provide better accuracy specs, especially since Seiko can do it.
Seikos fan base will defend that flaw at any cost, giving Seiko no reason to change that anytime soon.
Thanks for covering that topic.
And since when is $6800 Submariner pricing? Not even at retail.
The cheapest sub is about 10k isnt it
I bought a 10 year old SKX and brought it to my local watchmaker. He said the watch is running perfectly, but I have him $50 to regulate it and lubricate whatever he thinks it's necessary. The watch now runs about +2spd, and it's just so charming.
good watchmaker
This is an interesting topic. I own a Seiko mini turtle with the 4r35 movement that runs at +2 sec a day and a new SPB197J1, the Alpinist European edition with the 6r35 movement, that runs at +20 sec a day. For sure when you spend more money at around 1k you expect a better accuracy than -15 +25...
Totally agree with that. My 6R35 are either very accurate or a lot off. And for the SPB149 you spend more than $1k so you would expect better than that. When you can get a Tissot Powermatic 80 Chronometer on Jomashop for $400
@@koolpep I got a powermatic 80 that runs consistantly with +1 sec at jomashop for 180 usd...
Dude thsoe watches need services if it looses time needs a service.
thts wahy rolex says a service is need each 3 years...if you use it often.
The newer Powermatic 80 movement from Swatch are quite accurate and reliable. They use them from Certina to RADO and they have been extremely accurate in my experience from owning many of them.
Yeah, a friend of mine has the Hamilton Khaki Aviation "Cooper" with that movement, and says it's been running a solid -2sec/day over the year he's had it. That's within COSC. Definitely a solid value, and under $1K list. It's high on my next watch purchase list.
My certina has that mov. also. +/_ .01 sec per day in a dive watch model.
Or even Citizen miyota movements. The 8204 movement can defeat more expensive non Grand Seiko automatic movements.
Powermatic based movements, simply excellent, affordable high horology...
I've never had any major issues with any of mine, and their accuracy is much better than spec. When it comes to servicing, on most of the low to mid tier models, it's just cheaper to replace the movement than to have it taken apart. However, if you're so inclined, you can modify them to your liking. There's a huge community for that.
Ima not a rela fan of seikos but of watches in general-
As far as i Know, if your watch do not perform good accuracy ,, go to a good watchemeker,, they are needing a good clean adn tune up
Sometimes worng oils are used, etc
I think it can make 5 seconds witha good tune job on it. easly.
If you use an automatic , maybe you need to use it more time
Pendulum bearings must be well cleaned and lubrificate with a grease.
If it looses accuracy hes saing.. job service needed, and dont waste too much time watch start deteorating after that..
As a former Seikoholic, Seiko has become garbage. In the last year I purchased a SBDC077 diver (misaligned chapter ring of course) and a SBDC093 Alpinist with -6 min a day. Replaced it 3 time and that 6R35 movement always had issues. Lesson learned, hello Switzerland!
I love seikos divers, but I stick to their solar and other quartz, they are very accurate, even for quartz.
Ive learned the mechanical seikos are overhyped and market leadning in being poor value for money...
Seiko's auto/mechanical heyday was the 60s/early 70s. Their modern offerings are generally pass. Grand Seiko is better, but they've lost their way in terms of design.
Seiko is like Toyota, not the highest horsepower, but reliable as hell.
Don't forget sand bagging mileage.
Absolutely - if I want a 4wd for play I'll go euro, when my life depends on getting the job done, I'll go toyota. Same with seiko, desk diving with no consequences? Swiss! Out in the middle of no where relying on my watch? Seiko.
And just like Toyota, they don't have the monopoly of reliability...
Tell that to my 2 year old Alpinist that already needs a service.
Seiko is more like Honda. Huge mod community and lots of respect for it. Citizen is more like Toyota, more conservative but very reliable
My SKX007 is about as accurate as a sundial, but I still love it. Some watches have personality sufficient that we can forgive them small inadequacies like poor timekeeping! 😄
Agree - I consider myself a watch enthusiast and I like different watches for different reasons - as do most watch people. I like the Seiko history and their variety of watches. Take care.
It's like having a phone that has connectivity issues.
@@checksix_TC I hear you, but I would say that it depends largely on what your expectations are when it comes to the watch, and what value you seek to receive from it. If I personally wanted to ensure that my watch is going to be precisely accurate at any given time - I’d wear a quartz watch. For me at least, watches are no longer about precision time-keeping, they are more akin to jewelry or art, delivering intangible value. A phone without service is useless. A watch that keeps less than perfect time still has a lot to offer.
well depends maybe its you
Due to my work i cant mis anyhting for more than 5 minutes so i need accuracy..
usaually i star using a mechnical watch oustisde my job and checking it when i completly trust it then i start to use it.
all mechnic watches are accurate.. - theys top during the night and you restart from the right time.. ;)))
I was a Seiko fanboy for a long time. But I got tired of the quality control issues and poor time keeping. I sold most, kept the most accurate and had one movement replaced. No more Seiko for me.
Seiko's strong suit is design and quality of the case finish. With much hype in the internet, I always get drawn to them. Swiss watches tend to be boring design wise. That being said though, I always end up selling my Seiko. Reason? Very poor in the time keeping department. I've never had a Seiko that run slow though, but they run really fast! 15-20+ secs per day fast, which is very annoying!
It would be interesting to see how many fanboys will continue to buy Seikos as the brand keep increasing the price without improving the timekeeping and quality control.
Sold my three rolexes and with the money I bought a Seiko Spacewalk.. best choice ever
service them
This reminds me of a problem I have with many watch reviewers on TH-cam. They hardly ever say what the observed accuracy is of the watches they have in the possession. I would think they would do so. Thank you for your content John P!!
I have a few Seiko watches, some off by a few seconds a day and some by ten or so. I’m not timing rocket launches for NASA so I don’t need the watches to be spot on. I buy Seiko for their designs and overall reliability and value.
My thinking exactly, I can typically regulate all of mine to within 10 seconds a day and rotate through watches often so they never stay running more than about 2 days anyway.
@@bigshoe84 I agree, but their real value proposition is going the way of the dodo.
@@bigshoe84 i regulate al my watches too, 6 seconds a day.. if they dont go below 12sad its time for a full service...
I personally love the Seiko designs. I wish they would upgrade their specs, but my guess is most of their watches are made by robots or machines, and shipped without much human adjustment in order to keep prices relatively low. So basically, it's like an accuracy crapshoot when you buy one of their watches. The real problem comes in when you need help with one of their watches. One option is to send it in under guarantee. I've hear and read so many bad things about their NJ service center that this is just not something I could do. Most watch repair places will say to send it in and won't fix it. Or they'll say that parts are hard to get or tell you the accuracy will never be great, and just live with it etc. Almost all roads lead back to NJ, which sucks. From what I can gather, the main issue is sourcing parts. Seiko seems to have a stranglehold on their parts.
The accuracy pendulum swung wide for me: last year I got a Hamilton Khaki Field Automatic that gets about +2 seconds per day. This year I got a Seiko Alpinist SPB155J that loses about 12 seconds per day. I know I won't be late for any appointments from wearing the Seiko, but for over $700, they should regulate their watches. My local watchaker said it's not possible to correct a watch by a mere 12 seconds so I either sell it or live with it. "The other day, a fellow came up to me and said: "Hey buddy, do you have the correct time?" I said: "Sorry, my watch is a Seiko!" (Ba-dum, bum!) Ahhh, I get no respect....
It's really hard to argue with the points raised. I suppose we still buy these watches because of the designs, availability and the brand history and turn a blind eye to these issues....
designs are unique i hate new watchs theya re impersonal.they dont have soul
top grade ETA 2824 time keeping is stated as +/- 15 seconds per day, thats sat in swiss watches retailing over 2k usd, tudor black bay 36 for example, sw200 is pretty similar tbh. i get what you're saying john, but when you're looking at $1000 swiss watches, there are not that many with cosc movements outside of swatch group.
So what about the chronometer graded $400 and less tissots with Swiss movement on Jomashop? Powermatic 80 chronometer certified Tissot Ballad currently for $395
I love my Seikos and have 4 watches with the 6R35 movement in it. But man the accuracy is all over the place. Some great, some not so much. And all these watches were $600-$1,500. 🤔the issue is. These watches can be regulated very well. Seiko just chooses not to put in the effort. I would happily pay $50 extra for a well regulated 6R35 movement.
@@koolpep i did say outside of swatch group, tbh thats great value. you can look at tudors and many other brands with non cosc 2824/sw200 retailing well into the thousands that have similar variations to seiko 6r35 movements. don't get me wrong, i do wish seiko would tighten up the variation spec for their movements. however, it actually is pretty close to the two major movements - 2824 & sw200 that are fitted to most swiss made watches in a similar price band - 500-2000 usd.
@@neilgordge9360 ok. Christopher Ward. C60 Trident Bronze Ombré. COSC certified and even a bronze care. Retail $1,150 can be had with some discounts.
@@neilgordge9360 we totally agree here. None of my Swiss made movements performs as bad as my Seikos out of the box. Still love my Seikos but the sad thing is that the movements ARE capable of keeping better time, probably within cosc easily, if regulated properly. Seiko just doesn’t bother. A good watchmaker easily can regulate the 6R35 to very good specs.
John- go vintage Seiko since you are the vintage guy. A 6139, 6138, or 701x Speedtimer chronograph is a great addition. You just need to be sure you are buying an original one. I have over 30, they are my vintage watch focus.
Hmmm. It’s well known however that these are safe values being provided. On average they keep good time in my experience. As an example, I have among others an Orient ray raven as work horse. It’s already within + / - 10 sec per day. And it’s a basic entry level within the Seiko group. All other Seikos all well below that.
I own an SKX007, an SNK809, an SRPE93, and an SRPD53. All of them get me through a day of work just fine. I'm a little OCD so I end up setting the hackable ones to my Multiband 6 solar G-Shock, and I do the same to all my watches every few days. The accuracy really doesn't bother me, as all have functioned very well. Thanks for the video, you guys do a great job!
I bought a Seiko 5 recently for £125 it’s a few years old but it was new old stock. I got it to see if I could live with poor time keeping. Over 6-7 days ending last weekend it did a ridiculously good -0.1 seconds a day, in the last 3 days it’s done 0.9 seconds a day. Last time I checked over a day it was around 8-10 second out. Now I’m worried about buying a luxury watch as the time keeping will likely suck compared to that.
Yeah,
yeah, the bezels dont always line up either......someone get this man a Vostock stat!
Oh, and you can regulate them too....and my watchmakers fine with seiko but a bit snotty about Timex...
Great video, anyone who is considering buying a seiko should know about their accuracy specially considering all the attention they get, the time keeping is simply not there, my baby marine master typically deviates around 1-2 minutes each week which is very annoying for long term use
Great points. Accuracy will really matter to the people that have one watch, especially if you're paying for the high end side of Seiko.
Personally, I have multiple watches that I swap around every other day and I tend to stay in the affordable range and vintage category so I have very lax standards for accuracy to a certain extent. If i were to move up to the pricier Seikos, I would have higher standards.
Thanks for sharing ~$1000 affordable alternatives!
The worst watch I ever owned was a Seiko 5 that I bought as my first “expensive” watch after I left University in 2001. It was around £100 in the UK. It used to gain 5 minutes per week and I got it repaired TWICE within the 12-month warranty. Then it just kept gaining the same 5 minutes per week after that too. I eventually just threw it away. I vowed NEVER to buy a Seiko again. I don’t care if it is Grand Seiko or not. If a $20 Casio can keep accurate time, then a watch that costs 5 times as much should have a decent timekeeping standard.
Then you should never buy a rolecs either.. you will be disappointed with the accuracy
you're comparing Casio quartz watches with mechanical...these are more for enthusiasts, even super expensive ones can get inaccurate because of so many factors involved
My Seiko quartz does +1s/month, much better than my Casio. Seiko mech. however are junk. Especially 6R.
usually they loose time dont gain.... maybe the watch was magnetizing , stange they ddint "repaired" it..maybe they ddint they were jsut lying to you..
Once I got a taste of COSC/METAS accuracy, I really can't stand excessive gain or any loss in time. Luckily for my Seikos over the years, if they don't come accurate, it is easy to regulate it yourself and very cheap to get it done by a watchmaker close by. From my dozens I've had pass through over the years, I don't think I ever saw anything over +/- 10 out of the box new or used.
they perform well with a good service,, why do you think rolex say after 3 year is mandatorya service???
Due to accuracy.
I like Seiko overall, but I don't get the cultish fanboy-ism they get. From quality control, to poor timekeeping (not all, i know).... don't get it.
I do have some Grand Seiko on my list though, completely different obvi
I owned a couple of GS before and a lot of Seikos. I still don’t get the fanboy-ism.
They have been offering interesting and compelling designs for generations, and for a decent price.
any watchmaker can tune them to 10 seconds a day..
I'd be really happy if I could get a 6R35 based Alpinist that meets its accuracy spec. First one was minus 30 to minus 50 s per day, depending on position. I sent it back. Now the replacement from Seiko is plus 30 to plus 70 s per day, depending on position. Really disappointing for a $600 watch.
The discrepancy of accuracy shown online is to save them from a possible liability from damaged movements in transport, my Samurai is +2s a day, Turttle Manta Ray - 1 a day, 5kx is +5 a day and are in part as accurate as my Rolex Day Date / Explorer II, Zenith El premero and Omega Seamaster 300
I have 4 6R35 based Seikos and they are no where near my other watches in accuracy. Most are about +10 to +17 seconds fast.
I find it hilarious that someone has an issue with the accuracy of Seiko watches, when most of the watches in the same price category are usually running an SW200, without COSC certification, and so are in almost the exact same standards of accuracy. Yes, you can get a Chronometer for $1000+, but you won’t get the design of a Seiko. If you want a Chronometer, buy one. If you want a Seiko, buy one. Who cares. If you are worried about the accuracy of a watch, then frankly you shouldn’t really be buying an automatic in the first place. That is not why most people do.
I have several automatics, some that are COSC, and some that are not. I still don’t buy them to be exactly precise. If I really need that, I would wear a quartz watch or a spring drive.
Now I do agree that the top end of the Seiko line over $2000-$3000 should at least offer a Chronometer movement as well. I really does suck that they do not offer something with a Chronometer or similar certification in their line at some point.
I prefer the design of Citizen diver’s. For dress watches I prefer German or some subtle Swiss brands like Longines and their dress watches.
If accuracy is SOOO important, I'd rather spend the Seiko money on a Citizen EcoDrive atomic (or a $100 G-Shock M5610U atomic) and have it be more accurate than essentially any other watch on the market.
COSC certified, chronometer rated :))) I always find it hilarious when mechanical watch fans get anal about accuracy. It's like they get into their 1920s Rolls Royce (while wearing their top hat and monocle) and expect the same performance as a modern Honda Civic.
If you want serious accuracy buy quartz.
My cheap NH35 watch keeps time to within +/- 4 seconds per day. They are simple to regulate, I regulated mine, and I'm no watchmaker. John P seems to know the price of everything and the value of nothing.
GS aside, and the few Seiko branded pieces that use movements that were developed for GS watches, Seikos are only so-so timekeepers. I love them, and own 10+ Seiko autos using 7S26 and 4R35/36 movements, both of which are fine for watches that cost $100-$300, but they don't come anywhere close to the COSC ETAs found in my Mido and Rado pieces. Likewise for my old SARB 033 and 017, which ran so poorly I sold them off. Truly, after living with Seiko's supposedly better 6R15 movement in two separate pieces, I say don't waste your money. That's the most inaccurate movement I've ever owned, the 033 off up to 8 minutes per day if left on its side with the crown up. When worn it was relatively accurate (within Seiko's rather sad specs), but they don't adjust them for multiple positions, so they need to be worn 24/7 to maintain accuracy, and I have too many watches to wear one all the time. On that note, I know someone who owns a Seiko dealership, and they've said the same thing about the newer 6R35, and that they're experiencing plenty of complaints. On the positive, if you pay retail for a COSC Mido you'll most likely lose a lot of your "investment" if forced to sell, but if you purchase an overpriced Seiko 62 MAS reissue or one of the similarly styled lower priced alternatives, you'll probably make money, or at least not lose as much. There's a lot to love about Seiko, especially their vintage pieces, but if they want to play in Certina, Mido and Rado territory (or for that matter Tudor), they need to start shipping their premium pieces with their higher-end high-beat movements that do a better job of telling the time. Until then, they're losing their name for good value, and destroying the goodwill they've earned over the past many decades.
Hi John,
thanks for this promotional video to the Swiss movements. Seikos movements have many followers by the simple fact of being reliable and having a quality well above its price and the best, if the movement breaks with little money you can change it without problems. Ahh and they do one thing very well for little money, they measure time just like any Swiss watch and have flaws just like many Swiss movements. I only have a Seiko 5 sports since 6 years ago and it moves forward 3sec per day, it cost me 130 dollars second hand, do you want something better? I think not?
This may sound simple but it is. Weishi 1000 for $250.00 in a couple of adjustments you can get +-3Sec easy and it will lock in there. Most of the brands mentioned require you to almost replace the watch for a serious service.
Any seiko over 500 is pushing it and over 1000 is a definite no go. Seiko makes great bargain watches that is all. If you want a high-end seiko then get grand Seiko (exception for the spring drive seikos... maybe...couldn't tell you since I haven't seen let alone held one)
The 2019 Rolex GMT batman and pepsi wouldn't of passed Cosc cert, Jodie of just one more watch tested both, and said the homage was a better watch, better time keeping, strap, and a bezel that actually lined up.
Movement under 6r15 a rated +45/-25!
So a 4R35 is rated +45/-25
But they easy to regulate
I own that Christopher Ward Cranwell and it did come with the COSC cert.. very nice build quality. Easily hangs with Oris or Sinn...
The stated accuracy for Seiko movements varies depending on the caliber family. The 4Rxx movements are the same as the NHxx movements sold by Seiko to other watch companies. The 8Lxx movements are variants of movements used in some Grand Seiko watches.
4Rxx (21,600 vph): -35/+45 spd
6Rxx (21,600 vph): -15/+25 spd
6Lxx (28,800 vph): -10/+15 spd
8Lxx (28,800 vph): -10/+15 spd
You will see similar accuracy ratings for Citizen (Miyota) movements.
8xxx (21,600 vph): -20/+40 spd
9xxx (28,800 vph): Typically -10/+20 spd or -10/+30 spd
You can compare this to the Swiss-made Selita SW200-1 (28,800 vph), which comes in four grades.
Standard: +/-30 spd
Special: +/-20 spd
Premium: +/-15 spd
COSC: -4/+6 spd
My takeaways from this are 1) higher beat rate is fundamental to higher accuracy, and 2) Seiko and Citizen don't put much effort into regulating their watch movements at the factory.
All of the above data is from the Caliber Corner website.
Swiss is still king of time keeping. My 400.00 Tissot Sea Star keeps -1 sec a day for a year now, Lume sucks though and rubber band is too narrow for serious diver use.
wel mine is away much beter a citizen quartz, a moster in timekeeping
7s, 4r and 6r aren't really that great. Lots of positional variance and poor isochronism. The 6r seems to be particularly problematic, at least there's lots of complaints online. I bought sarb035, got a great price, but the accuracy has been so so. It started at plus 10, and now three months later, it's minus 7. I'm gonna have to crack it open and nudge the etachron lever. I pretty well agree with everything you said.
John
Thank You for the vídeo.
If You ask Hans he will be able yo explain how the Etas get regulated and cerificated by COSC. So all depends on hand work. So those Seikos, sometimes, do not even align properly....Want a better Seiko, Buy an Islander from Long Island watches.😎🤔
Seiko collexctor here who also loves Rolex.
Here is my experience and recommendations:
Sbdx017 (top recommended diver) - less than a second a day. Pretty close with my Submariner. Discontinued model, it is iconic Sekio diver design and best diver from their golden age of early to mid 2010s. Uses a grand seiko level movement. around $1800-2000 used.
Sark003 (recommended chrono) - minus 5 seconds per day. column wheel chronograph (not integrated so it's thick) Best of this is the dial which is hand painted in Japanese lacquer called urushi. Very eye catching and good everyday piece. Around $2000 used.
sbdc001 - minus 15 seconds. bang for your buck watch around $500 but the time keeping drove me crazy
other seiko watches:
sary087 - plus 10 seconds. dress watch around $700
my first seiko auto- minus 20 seconds
orient banbino . 2 now , 3 seconds a day, cost me 200
I have a lucky SKX. face up consistently 1 second plus beat rate error .7. Not bad for the base non hacking movement. I have ETA movements that are no better or slightly better. The thing I like about the Seiko is that it keeps power with my daily hand motion. My ETA autos, not as good.
Have a Seiko and a Tissot. The Tissot is COSC certified and very accurate, it did come with a certificate. The Seiko is inconsistent. It is ok sometimes but seems to be about 4 minutes fast after a few weeks.
maybe its time for a service
Thank you! I was going to order the new SPB453 but accuracy is poor. Instead ordered a Mido chronometer.
Yep for some reason Seiko quotes a wider accuracy tolerance than seems necessary (after having owned many of them myself). Probably a lack of confidence in repeatable accuracy from the factory, concern about warranty claims, etc. They perform better than factory spec in my experience, but I still always prefer an equivalent ETA movement.
Exactly how I feel about Seiko! ❤️👍
Used to be a Seiko fan and accuracy of their watches up to those using the 8L series of movements is really random out of the box. Could be to within a few seconds a day or better, but but can also be barely within their +15s and in one instance even faster for me. Truly feel they need to up their game the same way they are increasing the prices on their watches with their 6R and 8L movements. Otherwise, the just too many entry level Swiss brands offering better watched for similar cash.
I rolled the dice and bought a new MM 300.
The 8L in mine honestly gives me +1.75 seconds a day. After a month it's not even a minute fast. I hack the second hand for a moment and I'm good to go. It exceeded my expectations in every way. Of course results may vary. I think it's worth every penny.
I was just thinking that no one ever talks about accuracy. What kind of time does it keep. All my Seiko watches are durable and reliable but about 15-25 seconds slow per day.
My seiko was running about +4 spd until i dropped it. Then it was running -60spd and I have found it impossible to get it back to where it was; mostly because of the regulating mechanism Seiko has in their watches. There is almost no way to fine tune it. So I'm settling now for +30spd. After doing more reading and finding out the differences between seiko movements and swiss movements and different methods of regulation i've been really turned off from lower end Seikos. The only models i would buy now are quartz, spring drive or their new 9S movements.
well maybe it jsut need a look to pivots.. a good service will fix it...
all watches can be tune...
if you dropa watch you cant complain even for quartz or even an IPHONE.
I currently own 2 seiko divers. They both run around +8. But I’ve had several in the past a they are hit or miss imo. I will always have seiko in my collection tho so I probably biased. I recommend the new mm200 reduced model (sbdc125) for u John p. I think it’ll fit your wrist pretty good.
I swap my watches on almost daily basis and have my Seiko Turtle in the rotation. Keeps good time but usually goes on the wrist for a relatively short time. And I am gladly using it as a proper diver. I would not take my Explorer out on the beach or dip it into seawater. Seiko perfectly does this ob for me. John asked for a comment.
Your explorer can survive the beach and seawater
You know what brands I've gone to since Seiko has increased prices without significantly upgrading the movements? Oris, Tudor, and Nomos. The competition is really intense in the 1000-4000 dollars range there. People often mention "Seiko makes all their parts in house". Well, so does Nomos.
I am a Seiko fan but I fully agree with you.
Seiko makes all of their parts in house, Nomos just makes their movements in house. Nomos doesn’t make their own bolts, lubricants, etc., so it’s not “every part” the way Seiko is
Is this important? Heck no, I’d rather have a Nomos, but I wanted to point out the difference
@@Sk3tchPad You know who makes all of their parts in house? Laterally any brand under the swatch umbrella. Hamilton, Tissot, Certina, Mido, Longines, Omega. Pick your poison
Nomos is a great watch brand..for retired people.. can’t see anyone under 60 years old wearing their watches.. plain and boring
@@Sk3tchPad seiko buy some parts to orient factory, always did
MM 300 8L35 it was fast +9 a day when I first wound it brand new from the box. It got better everyday until it settled down after a couple months. Now +2 or +3 seconds a day sometimes better. The last time I put it against my radio atomic G-Shock for 14 days it was +1.7 seconds a day. Anything mechanical needs time to break in before you evaluate it.
Question; With mechanical watches not really being used for any real meaningful timekeeping or navigation anymore, is the Cosc certification just a sales gimmick now?
It feels like modern watches are more of a fashion item rather then a tool, would you rather buy the design or the accuracy?
The 4r and 6r movements' 21600 vph, lack of reliability and terrible positional variability were acceptable on watches costing $300. Now that Seiko has moved upmarket (in price only, they've improved nothing), they're putting those awful movements in watches costing north of $1000. That's just ridiculous. Seiko needs better movements, better bracelets, better clasps, sapphire crystals, and much better qc in order to earn their move upmarket. And speaking of QC, if you get a Seiko at any price (excluding GS, of course) and the bezel, the chapter ring and the indexes actually all line up, you should play the numbers, because it's apparently your lucky day. The fact that the overwhelming majority of their watches leave the factory with this flaw is unacceptable at any price.
Honestly i got Lucky with my 6r and 4r but those movements at 1k+ and 600€*+ respectively its a pfff at BEST
+25 -15 is the standard for a base Orient movement.
True, but my Oreient Kamasu has never lost a second and has never been fast by more than 10 seconds in daily wear.
my banbino works -3sday,,
What’s stopping me from buying the SPB 143 is the low accuracy movement of the 6R35. I really love the design of the watch but the movement is a complete turn off. I hope Seiko can see this channel.
Seiko have some interesting watches, but I think the standard Seiko line is getting a bit expensive, obviously they are trying to reposition the brand. Also, I can't stand the Prospex and Presage branding.
I currently have 10 Seiko watches in my collection, mostly new, but a few go back several years. I have returned somewhere in the neighborhood of 6 recent purchases because of poor timekeeping. I define poor as anything in the over 15 spd range. It's possible to get a new Seiko in the single digit accuracy range, but my recent experience (last 3 - 4 years) is they are the exception.
My experience certainly doesn't qualify as statistically valid, but does raise the question, especially given that most of my recent purchases of Chinese "homage" watches with a variant of the venerable 4R movements (NH, in current parlance) have been in the sub 15 spd range. Seikos "5" line is their most popular range carrying this movement and they start in the $300 MSRP range and can usually be purchased for something just north of $200. The Chinese watches I'm referring to are typically $80 - $200. No originality in design and hard pressed to match Seikos case and dial finishing, but almost all of them have sapphire crystals, ceramic bezels, milled clasps and properly aligned markers and indices. You have to spend well over $500 for a Seiko with those attributes.
The issue for me is why doesn't Seiko do even a modest level of regulation of their movements, as it appears at least some of their Chinese competition are doing? Isn't at least part of our fascination with mechanical watches the remarkable level of precision engineers can achieve using springs, gears, wheels and other components?
If "Grand" isn't in front of it, I'm not interested. Seikos made sense at $300. At 1k, Swatch group comparable brands blow them out of the water. Lume is all they're good for at this point. Fight me! lol
Agreed. The fanboys here aren’t gonna like what you say, but you’re absolutely right. 😂
Currently seiko knocking it out of the ballpark aesthetically. Killer stuff. But the movement’s are garbage. Bought the SPB 62 MAS reinterpretation. Gorgeous looking piece. Kept good time for a few months then started dropping daily. Got a local seiko dealer to regulate it and was running within 2 secs a day for a while. Then again started dropping like crazy now around minus 30 a day. The 6R movement seems erratic and unreliable. Never again will I buy another no matter how stunning the exterior looks. For the money seiko now asking go for anything with a selita sw 200 or equivalent ETA that can be reliably regulated instead.
there are people that sue it for 3/4 hours and then put on the table, they are automatic,,thye need movement for a good charge, maybe it was recharging good,, 30 minutosa day is a lot, need a service too...
Okay, John. You sold me. What watch strap is that?
It's a Seiko rubber strap
Toyota A90 Supra pulls the same game. Says it has "x" horsepower on the website but it over delivers on the dyno.
many buyers may have got accurate pieces, but i own a captain willard re-issue (which i like for its design, dial, heritage, etc.) running with +15 seconds/day. 👎🏼 of course, that is within seiko-standards, but, in contrast, every single swiss-made watch in my collection in that price range with an eta/sellita movement is running within cosc-standards (although not officially certified). definitely a difference in quality!
for a watch that is most of time stopped in a collection and maybe never seen a service recently, 15sd is very good.
I have some the funny thing is that i got myself some mods base built on 6r35 or 6r15, mods are extremely accurate since an expert was regulating the movements, I've been comparing them to my new seamaster 300, no different, the 6r35 mod i'd say even better. Then I have the Sumo 6r35 and the spb149j1 6r35 those are better than the official specs mine -5 +7 , same movements than the mods but worse accuracy performance... by the way to me all of them great watches. I understand your point though
Many of the Swiss, German, French and even Russian watches tend to be much more accurate than promised. Seiko seems not to most of the time get even these loose specs they promise. You have to wear seiko for whole day to get even close to promised accuracy. Powermatic 80 can be left in watchbox for an weekend and stays on time.
Why buy a first hand Seiko for US$1-1.5k that is likely wildly inaccurate when you can get a secondhand COSC-spec Tudor for US$2-3k? I love both brands but if Seiko wanna play in the >1k space, they gotta step up their game.
The answer is obvious: you buy the Seiko because you can have it regulated and it costs $1000+ less than the Tudor.
Also, you are skewing the price on the Tudors. There are countless Seiko models for under $1000 new. Show me the Tudor for $2000.
My Seiko 5 Actus is about +29 s/d. Not great, but it's serial number puts the manufacturing date at the same month and year as I was born, so it's old, lol! It's not running bad, probably just needs to be regulated. Bought it from a guy in France via Chrono, and it arrived way slow, like losing a minute or more per hour. Had to send it back for him to check it, looks like the balance got damaged in transit. Balance was replaced, and it runs well enough to wear for a day and not worry at all.
How does a balance get damaged in transit
My Seiko mm 300 +1-1 Rolex deepsea +-0 Rolex seadweller +-o Citizen 1000m -15
Thank you for sharing. Now I seemed to accept to adjust my Seiko Shadow Samurai. In fact I had it recalibrate 3 times already since last year, whereas the last two was just recently. The last one was a back job; 1 min. per day. Been comparing my two other watches Oris Big Pilot day date and my recent purchase of Certina Super 500M orange vs my Samurai the reason I notice its delay/needs to adjust.
This is the reason why I dont by a mechanical seiko. The movement does have precision but they dont regulate their watches to reduce cost in labour to adjust it. I would be willing to pay extra to get a regulated watch. Go with the eco drive quartz version if you get a seiko.
pay to a good watchmaker so
If you are willing to pay extra to get a regulated watch.... Go take your watch to a good shop and have it regulated.
I have a Capt. Willard and similar ,movement with a steel bezel. I have no science on it's accuracy, but casual observations, what I've noticed is one loses like 4 minutes every two weeks, the other gains like 3 minutes every two weeks, lying on my desk, winding them, and sometimes I don't wear them for a few weeks. Problems with their movements is they vary in accuracy. Some people get better and worse accuracy. Both are in the $1200 JDM watches. Bezel lines up. I will get this they are durable. I think they quoted spec's are deliberate so they don't have to be sent back and put in an acceptable spec. Doesn't bother me, I just set them when I wear them. Your other recommendations are good. CW did give me a COSC sheet for a watch. In anycase love the Capt. Willard and no watch is perfect. In. the end get what you want and put a smile no your face. Options are good. Also if it really bothers you and it shouldn't have to be done for a money of this watch it shouldn't need to be done, and good local watch maker can adjust them for a limited amount of money. Not a fanboy. And own every brand of watch you mentioned and feel the same. Good review. Even Colin on the his website owns a King Turtle, and both he, you and myself know and understand Seiko's issues. FWIW I do like my Seiko's than my Tissot's.
You are correct for the money of high end Seiko….jump to SpringDrive they loose about a sec a week. Crazy time keeping specs.
Huh interesting my spring drive gains about 2s a month
My experience. Sarb033 25+ per day. Skx013 terrible maybe 45+, mini turtle was +15 ish, however I’m currently wearing a King Turtle and it’s running at 0 or close most days. It’s a total lottery.
This I what puts me off I’d like a spb143 but I’m not shelling out over £1000 for something that might be + 25 per day.
For that you can get a top grade Sellita in a Sinn.
I am guessing Seiko playing safe with what they advertise on their site. But i see his point, some of their watches are getting expensive. But i am into decent/cheaper movements with pretty dials.
Seiko watch movements are not regulated at all - they come off the factory line and whatever the timekeeping is, it is. As a CYA, they have very broad timekeeping specs as a result. They're usually much better (although not always). It's actually kind of amazing that purely by machine assembly they can get the timekeeping as accurate as it is with no regulation.
If you have a timegrapher, its actually pretty easy to regulate them yourself.
Seiko was king of accurate mechanical movements from around 1965 to 1975 (Suwa Seikosha and Daini Seikosha). John failed to mention that during the 1960s Seiko was producing many high accuracy movements, which resulted in the Swiss cancelling their observatory timing competition. If you are looking for an accurate mechanical movement now, Seiko isn't the brand. Grand Seiko, however, is a completely different story and shouldn't be compared to Seiko at all.
Is it better than my quartz?
This is my biggest issue with regular Seiko, the designs have become so popular that they can raise their prices, but for the price, swiss and german watches are just better.
Pretty much all watch Brands have been increasing their prices over the past 2 years. Seiko is not the only company to raise prices. The raise in prices has opened the door for all of the new "copy" watch companies to enter the watch sales arena. They can copy Seiko and other Brands almost identical aesthetically, but for really lower prices.
@@curious5557 I think you're missing the point. The issue with Seiko is that they are raising their prices while simultaneously lowering their quality.
@@NoShame86 Seiko quality is about the same as it has always been. You simply have more people talking about it because of social media. Every TH-camr who reviews a Seiko pretty much says the bezel does not line up. Seiko discontinued the SKX line and introduced the new Seiko 5, a lower tiered watch. They have other models to fit intro other levels.
That is my opinion too! They are extraordinary watches but you have to be patient . Once in 2 weeks you must reset it. My Seiko presage 1000 dollars and has a daily failure rate of plus 25 average. Disaster and when I talked to the boutique guy he said ooohhh that's normal!!!
I wore a Seiko five for 17 years and I don't remember such great deviations. This is seiko's biggest issue I believe
The intersection of accuracy Vs. Price is certainly an issue for Seiko, but you can't really go with the numbers that Seiko publishes. The accuracy is generally much better then stated and the prices much lower; which changes the equation significantly, especially in the mid or low range.
I do love the Alpinist, but is it worthwhile when I can get a Hamilton for MUCH less?
But, at the end of the day how many people really give a toss about extreme accuracy in a mechanical watch? If you're buying a Seiko mechanical watch you are likely an enthusiasts with multiple watches and likely to switch around before 15 or 20 seconds a day would be a problem, much less
I drive trains in england, I need to know exactly how late I am.... I can confirm seiko watches lose loads of time in a day! : D
I've owned about 10 Seiko's. All hacking and handwinding (sorry SKX007). All of them could be regulated to within COSC. Since I can do that myself it's never been an issue.
Time keeping is important to me and out of the 4 Seikos I’ve owned, the WORST time keeper is my newest DressKX at -9 spd. Considering I paid $150 for it, I’m ok with this. I think the comment about liability made by another viewer is 100% correct.
People spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on vintage watches that keep horrible time. I don't think +25 /-15 for a well built sub $1000 watch is that bad
Yes but these Seikos are not vintage though. Given Seiko's technical and modern manufacturing capabilities, one would've expect a reasonable level of accuracy; especially given their recent price hikes.
@@NoShame86 if a watch costs around the $1k mark ( which is where seikos magic happens ) and gains or loses a little bit of time I don't see the big deal if it's a pleasing watch for owner and we'll built.
Tell me in what circumstances you were a watch where you need it to keep COSC specs time?
I have had modern rolex and JLC that gained or lost 15 seconds a day
I have a Seiko quartz diver that I've owned for 36 years that loses 1 sec between daylight saving time changes, which is wonderful even for quartz. My Seiko 5 (SNZG13K1) lose between 12-17 secs/day, which is truly awful. I had it serviced (for a price I could have just replaced it) and it was -6-7 for a while and then back to -12 or greater. I have been looking for a higher end watch and was looking at Seikos because I have a fondness for them, but I just can't deal with the accuracy of their autos. That has me leaning more towards Hamiltons for -$1000 and Ball for -$2000
if backed to -12 you need to contact who amde the service..
John, great video as always. Very much enjoy your content, you don’t pull punches. I would recommend the Alpinist. The green dial is very well done and is a beautiful watch. That said, the strap that comes with the watch is crap.
I bought a brand new 62MAS. It was about 20-30 seconds slow a day. I accidently dropped it. It was about 5-10 seconds slow a day after that.
I own a Seiko SLA021J1 for about 2 years. Worn it hard with all activities. Very consistent timekeeping at +6 secs/day. Crown up at night and it would level out to +1. I would rarely manual wind. Then recently I noticed the timekeeping way off. Slapped it on the timegrapher and noticed the beat error was way up. From 0.1 to 2.0. Off to Seiko USA for servicing. I was disappointed. Comparing that Seiko MM300 to my Omega Speedy which has had its fair share of mishaps and drops. The Speedy still keeps excellent time. So I bought a BB58 out of anger 🙃
You said it in the video yourself.
Seiko can say "It is within specification."
Do Rolex that you like to compare against, sell their movements to other watch manufacturers?
Sekio deliberately specified "loose" specification accuracy specifications.
And THAT is why most Seiko's always are more accurate and why all is saying the same thing.
Seiko is smart and as a brand that has put all the swiss brands to shame in their own competition in Switzerland (Geneva observatory competition) back I'm the day. For just the accuracy!
So they know how to regulate a movement better than the swiss in other words😂
But when they sell their movements to other watchmakers with that specification the customers know that they will deliver and Seiko minimize issues with "it is out if specification".
A completely different business model that they have to play it safe in low margin movements production. And that is noting Rolex need to do.
In short those accuracy specifications are deliberately conservative stated.
And we are little bit fall in the trap that it "should" be regulated in 6 positions.😅😂
How is that helpful?
Do we have the watch equally long time of the day with the crown up as with crown down?
Of course not.. We do not go and point to the sky for hours each day!😂😅
Yes it is ideally that there is as little variance between the 6 positions as possible.
The only true "position" that is relevant is that it is position at the unique individual that has it on his wrist and his individual usage.
If that usage gives X seconds deviation.. Then THAT is what should be regulated and that is far better than bla bla 6 positions..😅
But we Seiko fans are more likely to fix the regulation by our self than any other watch brand community. ❤
Sharing is caring so we are less stuck in what is printed on the paper for its accuracy when that is less sat in stone.🎉
Any competent watchmaker can regulate these Seiko watches to keep excellent time. I used to have a SCSZ004 with 6R15 that kept better than COSC specs. Why Seiko doesn’t regulate them is a mystery. Just cause Seiko states a certain spec doesn’t mean it isn’t capable of better accuracy.
Thanks for sharing this
yes.
regulating cost a lot of time and labour,, and that is money..
Great video John but true I love Seiko designs especially the reedition but one thing is the timekeeping is what putting me off 🇦🇺cheers
The movements in seiko are good the problem is even in the more expensive models is that they don't regulate them even the Marinemaster which has a grand seiko movement in isn't regulated which isn't good for an 3000 dollor watch. But if you get it regulated by a good watch maker (shouldn't be nessary) they keep really good time for example my MM 300 keeps withing 10 seconds a month.
As per my experience with the Prospex PADI, the Tuna Penguins and Monster 2nd gen. They were all inaccurate and with bad bracelet/rubber. Yet they are fun to collect.
Love the argument about accuracy while wearing the remake SLA033 (3500USD) of one of the greatest Seiko Icon's 6105.
Hmm. Vested interest? I've an 11 Seiko collection from SKX to Hi-Beat. All run within 6s/d. Most within 3, some at 1. On average, easily as good as my Swiss or German watches. For specced and performing accuracy, modern Rolex are very accurate, but a tad more expensive than a Seiko? My most accurate watch (apart from Spring Drive) - a Panerai. Seiko's lax specs should be tightened (if only to stop this weak criticism), but I've never encountered a Seiko anywhere near as inaccurate. They are well designed, affordable, reliable and accurate.
My Seiko SARB035 is running -5 sec/day. For comparison, my TAG Heuer 2000 I bought in ‘04, with an ETA 2824, runs +6 sec/day, & my Squale GMT, with a Sellita SW330, runs +2 sec/day, sometimes better!