Sorry to those that I offended by saying "LIE" instead of "LEE", some of you seemed really heated about it hahaha I have corrected it moving forward but am not going to redo this video to just make sure I pronounce it correctly :D
I'm sure anyone who critiqued your pronunciation has never known how to pronounce something before. I'm guessing they are great spellers too. I wouldn't be sorry one bit to those claiming to be offended. They need to get a life.
Good comparison and thanks for your video. I use LN and have never had to sharpen one straight out of the box new. It's nice to see a less expensive one work as well as the top of the line. I tried a WR recently, took me an hour to get it to work as good as your orange one, $313.00. I appreciate a company that has started making planes at a reasonable price for the average woodworker that can't afford the more expensive ones. Thanks again for your video.
A few years ago, I bought a "Silverline number 4" new, it was the best I could afford and it was cheap. It took some work, but I managed to get the desired shavings and more importantly, the finish to the wood. I have better planes now, "Faithfull", although far from being premium planes, they too can be made to work. Thank you for this video, it proves beyond all doubt that a budget plane can be made to work and hold it's own against the best. Granted, a premium plane has the engineering in its corner, but it's the finish to the wood that has the last say.
I fully agree with you and thank you for sharing!! If you find a $10 plane at a flea market, put some work into it and it will take shavings and leave a good surface!!
I just received the Jorgensen 10" smoothing plane and the block plane. Am amazed and pleased. Quality tools from a company I have admired for decades, their wood clamps. Thanks for this video. I am sure you will be surprised by the quality of the block plane.
I am! and I am surprised by the 101 also! I decided I am keeping all 3. I don't know if they will replace my main smoother but...... time will tell hahha Thank you for watching!
Jorgensen was sold a number of years ago to Hangzhou Greatstar Industrial. So that company you knew decades ago no longer exists today. It is just a trademark now. I suppose the tools are just as good as they were though. But yeah they're coming from a different place.
I saw your comment on Lowe’s and ended up here. Thanks to your review, I bought a Jorgensen no 4 today. I can’t wait to try it out this weekend and use it to build a nightstand tray for my daughter.
@@BatCaveCreations the chip breaker was warped. I returned it and got a different one. The new one looks fine at first, but the blade isn’t square. I’m fine with that.
I can appreciate that this review was a legitimate comparison rather then advocating the orange made in china plane. You gave us the facts and left it up to us to decide. Cheers for that and great video. With that said I'd like to add the main reason Lie-Nielsen is worth the extra $270. 1: The extra money is an investment in our community and neighbors here in the USA. 2: For the extra money you get a tool made with the best iron and steel in the world held to the highest standards which means you will pass this too down several generations. (China metal is held to no standards at all, I'd be embarrassed to pass this tool down to my son if it lasts that long). 3: Call Lie-Nelson tool works and a person that actually uses these tool will answer the phone, no automated system that requires you to choose numbers for an hour and eventually directs you to leave a message. (isn't that alone worth the extra cash) 4: Lie-Nielsen tools are made in small batches, not high production which of course means they have to charge more, but small batches means they can control quality much better. 5: Lastly, Lie-Nielsen backs their tools 100% and they take pride in every tool that leaves their shop. Those of us that are a bit older can remember what it means to take pride in your work. In conclusion, as a Journeyman toolmaker by trade and a mechanical engineer having 30ish years in manufacturing, I figures I would share my thoughts....Thanks all for reading my comment, and great video.
I LOVE THIS! Thank you so much for including your thoughts because they are all 100% accurate! LN Customer service is amazing, their quality control is top notch, they are in the USA!, and it is an heirloom tool that can be passed down well.... forever! That does speak volumes. If people have the $$ LN is hands down the way to go, no doubt about that.
@@BatCaveCreations For the record (And I should have added this to my original comment), I would never mock a person for buying a cheap tool if that's all their budget will allow. (I've been there). What's important is that your making chips, now what your making it with. BTW I just got my LN No. 8 Jointer plane in the mail yesterday and I cant lie, I'm like a kid with a new toy. That thing is amazing. Right out of the box, no adjustments at all it made a perfect chip. Now I can plane flat those extra large pieces of Red Oak.
@@nowhereman4041 no i get you for sure! I had to start off cheap too, it happens as long as you have having fun and enjoying the craft. Also YES!!! I am the same way anytime i get a new tool! I try to get the box as soon as it is delivered and open it up! haha LNs are basically perfect outta the box. I do like to five the blade a polish but they are good to go and that is part of what you pay for haha Congratulations on the no 8! that is a big purchase but you will love it and use it for years! :D Have fun making shavings!!!!
Why would you be embarrassed to hand down the Jorgensen plane, I guarantee if you lapped the sole, sharpened the iron and tuned it a little it would work just as well as the Lie Neilson plane. That’s from a Carpenter of 25 years in Australia.
Was in the boxorama yesterday and spied "the orange one" and went all WTF? Now you've gone and made me want it. I was actually in Lie-Nielsen's showroom last month and walked out with my wallet intact, but with no product. Subscribed!
You have way more restraint than I do to go into a LN showroom and walkout empty handed! I would be walking home cus I'd be pawning my truck to get planes hahhaha
I was in Lie Nielsen about a year ago and left empty handed. I was just too overwhelmed with what to get. And didn't want planes and chisels in my luggage (to Alabama). I've acquired a few vintage Stanleys over the years and used them. When I saw these Jorgensens had come out, I went out and bought them all. I'm impressed with the quality/cost. But I have yet to tune or use them. Looking forward to it though.
Great choice of No. 4 planes (LN and Jorgensen) to compare! I enjoyed the information on comparing the specs in the beginning, especially the weight and the blade specs. The blade thickness. You hit the essentials right out of the gate. I teach carpentry and grew up doing it. I've been doing woodworking for 15 years or so as a hobby and for a side job off and on. Mostly for the enjoyment though. Keep the great topics and comparisons coming. The best was it was an original on youtube and great timing right before Christmas as woodworkers debate price, quality, and projects as gifts and requests. 👍
Just in lowes yesterday and bought the Jorgensen corner plane. I seen the #4 and the block plane sitting there. I seen one other youtube did a review on the #4. About the same comments.
@@XxIcedecknightxX can never go wrong with Lie Nielsen or Veritas but they are $$. I think the LN is $500+ ship and tax. I use a vintage bedrock 607 as my Jointer cus I got it for $140. It works perfectly. I did upgrade the iron to a Hock
LN its the fit and finish your paying for, plus it will hold its value much better, the frog and leaver cap are bronze not brass, but yeah $270 difference is a big Factor to consider, both will do the job 👍🏻
I was thinking exactly the same thing. Hardness and edge holding. The fit and finish on the Jorgensen looked remarkable for a plane in that price range!
I'm done buying planes (for now) but just can't get enough of top$ to budget comparisons! My 1st big boy plane was a Stanley contractor grade Jack. It took a million years to flatten, but worth every saved penny. I'm going to have to keep the Jorg in mind if I ever want another, (you liked its light weight). My current 4 is a hand me down Handyman, and I actually love how light it is; feels more in touch with the blade.
That's exactly why I like lighter planes. I know that's against the norm but I'm not normal haha I am tempted to try the REED brass knobs to see if I like weight in the front only which I may. It would make starting easier but for me lighter the better because of the feed back the plane gives. I'm very tactile lol
@@BatCaveCreations Well put - "feed back". Reminds me of all the money I wasted on suspension bicycles; ended up right where I started and learned how to adjust tire pressure, lol.
Hey. I bought this plane and it looks really good except for the fact that I'm unable to retract the iron all the way up even with the wheel maxed out all the way to the frog. This is after I moved the frog a little closer to the front to align it with the back of the mouth opening so that the iron doesn't rest in the mouth but on the frog only. Anyone have an idea of how to fix this? I really want to keep the plane
Check how close the chipbreaker is to the cutting edge. I had the same issue with mine but once I move the chip breaker like 1/16th away from the cutting edge it worked :) Lemmie know if that helped or not, we can teouble shoot some more!
@@BatCaveCreations mine is as close as yours is when you first assembled it. Its right at the edge if the mouth. I'll try retracting it a bit. Thanks for replying!
No problem at all! I'm not sure retracting the chipbreaker will help from what you've described. Check this video and see if that helps: th-cam.com/video/EXVzeZyifXw/w-d-xo.html Also, if that doesn't work try scooting the frog back and double checking if it's hitting the mouth or not, sometimes it looks like it is but it's not. Try sticking a piece of paper there to see if it is really touching.
@@BatCaveCreations how far back from the edge should I have the frog? Mine is currently flush with the mouth opening. I checked out your other vid, and I put the chip breaker as close to the edge as possible to have the iron as far up as I can but that wasn't enough.
@area 521 ah that's it! Back the frog away from the mouth. It is different for each plane so I can't tell you like a measurement or anything :( just gotta fiddle with it till you find it's happy place. Start by moving it back 1/16th, see if that let's you retract the iron. Of you can retract the iron then check to see if it's hitting the back of the mouth. Sometimes I need a flashlight to check this. If it is scoot it just slightly forward. It takes a bit of practice but take your time with it cus, if ur like me. I dont move my frog once it set (unless I'm filming a video hahah)
Great comparison! A slightly ridiculous recommendation for treatment of the plane sole is scraping - machinist style. You can look up my videos on the subject. For planes, scraping does two things; 1. it gets the sole flat to the precision of your reference surface (I used a granite surface plate that's certified flat to 0.0001" or 1/10,000 of an inch). Doesn't seem like it would take much work for your planes here as they seem pretty damn flat already - my vintage Stanley Baileys were most definitely NOT flat. 2. it leaves little "wells" and "peaks" throughout the surface which provides a vast improvement not only in glide, but also in retention of plane wax. These wells are the basis of machinist ways on machines like mills and lathes - if the ways (or your plane sole) were honed to a fine polish, they wouldn't retain any oil, sanding the bearing surface coarse helps but not nearly as well as scraping. It's overkill I know, but honestly seeing as how your planes are already quite flat, it wouldn't take you very long at all and you're obviously only performing it once for the lifetime of the plane. In any case, great presentation! Cheers and Merry Christmas! - Jens
You are correct! I do have a granite plane I use for flattening plane soles; I don't think it is ridiculous to do this! All vintage planes I buy get their sole flattened to some degree.
I bought a Tay Tools Number 4 and the body of the plane was almost perfect but my blade was cupped. After purchasing a new Hock blade it seems to work flawlessly.
I haven't been able to try a TayTools plane as a bench plane I have purchased a taytools no 4 used but it was a converted scrub plane, it was amazing! It seems like a really solid and well made plane!
I spent about 3 hours fine tuning my new Jorgensen #4. The Jorgensen manual says the bottom is flat within .003, and based on my flattening the sole I would say that is correct, I just like my planes more flat and with a smoother bottom, so I spent the time and effort doing that. The blade bevel was at 25 degrees and reasonably sharp, but I put a secondary bevel using an extra fine diamond sharpener. The blade was flat on the back side and didn't require much time smoothing it out to finish the secondary bevel. The blade adjuster, for me, was not entirely satisfactory. I like to back the blade into the plane body and use the adjuster to sneak up on the cutting depth, but the adjuster would not retract the blade far enough as it bottomed out against the frog as I screwed it in. I removed the frog and removed the adjuster screw and adjuster wheel and used a file to remove a protruding burr around the screw hole which allowed the nut to screw in a bit more, which helped a bit and was enough to retract the blade into the body enough so it didn't shave wood. I put everything back together and started a cutting test on a construction grade 2x4, which resulted in a pleasant surprise, she cut quite nicely. I was able to get consistently .002 thick shavings. I got a few at .001, but was not consistent. I would rate this as a pretty darn good plane, especially for 70 bucks. I have several 70+ year old Stanley's and one Record plane, they are all superior to the Jorgensen, but only by a thin margin. I have absolutely no regrets buying the Jorgensen. With time and usage the performance should improve.
Thanks so much for this (and the other orange comparisons which I'll get to very shortly)! If I may say this is a much better review of the Jorgensen smoother overall than Rex Kreuger's, which I think might have been the first. _Really_ interesting to see the performance comparison. Because of the speed I couldn't see if there was a slight difference in the settings of the two cap irons/chipbreakers which might have something to do with the difference in tearout you were seeing between the two planes. ButI think there's a very good chance the leading edge of the cap iron needs a little fettling to make it work to its full potential given how the whole plane seems it could do with being deburred and arrises softened or chamferred. I am SO not Lie-Nielsen's target market but their choice of cherry for their handles has always surprised me, not a fan looks-wise to start with but I'd really prefer a harder wood on paper at least, so I'm much more inclined towards beech which has been extensively used in Britain for many years. BTW, in terms of price differential/performance, thought I'd mention that I bought a budget plane some years ago, _less than a tenth_ of what L-N's cost over here 😲that could probably hold its own against the more expensive plane. It took some work to set up - the kind of things you'd expect from a 30-40 buck plane (although the sole was dead flat) - but after that it performed v. well for me for some years. Asian rosewood handles too, which is nice!
I too saw Rex Krueger's review, and after watching this one, it looks as though Jorgensen company improved the product considerably in the meantime. Rex's sole wasn't even close to being flat, and lots of other bits had to be improved to get the plane working. Maybe Jorgensen saw his review.
Thank you for the comment!! The Jorgensen chip breaker was set a bit closer than the LN but I wasn't getting any tare out with either. To my surprise lol I get you about targeted audiences! Not everyone wants to or can throw down for LN that's why I was really excited about these reviews! There are other options :D What plane did you get? I'd be interested in buying and trying!
@@BatCaveCreations Again, nice work, and I'm glad to see that there's an affordable plane that works so well, after a little tuning up. For beginning woodworkers, it's no disadvantage to do a bit of work that will also teach them about how the tool should work. I've already had the Lie-Nielson for many years now, so it's not a decision I have to make. But I would recommend the Jorgensen to anyone starting out, based on your review. Cheers from a musical instrument maker in Vienna, Scott
@@therealzilch $70 is still a lot for a No.4 plane. I've never paid more than $5 for an old one. I have paid as little as a buck for a mint condition Stanley No. 4. Now that's affordable. I don't think just having a plane is going to teach anyone much of anything either. Well, it might teach them that they have no natural aptitude for it I suppose.
I opened up and inspected 8-10 of them between two local Lowe's earlier in the year, only one had an actual issue (massive scratch on the side I think), the rest only had minor differences on top of the body like some excess/missing paint and extra grease/grime build up. I've been happy with all my Jorgenson purchases, not the best or the cheapest but consistently good quality at a fair price (unlike Bessey 🙄)
I've been experimenting with this alot on curly oak, I'm finding that the depth of the iron is having a larger effect than the frog position. I would like to try and make a video on this but need to keep experimenting because it's a wild concept that is against everything I was told when I started haha
It's funny I have been woodworking for a while now and never knew that's how ur "supposed" to do it haha imma be paying attention to that more cus I don't think thats something I do. That old habit may be tough to break ahha
Your index finger should be on the side of the plane. That is why your hand doesn't fit the Lie-Nielsen. If the tote is still an issue, go to the 4 1/2 instead of the 4 as it will have a larger tote for an adult sized hand. I wouldn't be so surprised about the shavings. The bigger comparison would be in the fit and finish. How much easier was it to setup? What type of materials is it made from? The blades and chip breakers are the same style which is why you noticed the Jorgensen looking the same. However if you had looked at the thickness you would have noted that both the blade and chip breaker on the Lie-Nielsen are thicker. This reduces chatter on tough grain. Plus I would guess that the quality of steel on the Lie-Nielsen blade and chip breaker are much better as well. this will help with edge retention on hard tough grained wood. If you want something cheaper but better than the Jorgensen look at WoodRiver planes sold by woodcraft. Rob Cosman is a huge fan and has done a number of comparison videos. I personally own two of their planes as well. They are a step down from the Lie-Nielsen but also easier on the pocket book and you end up with a fantastic tool that will last generations with care. If you want a real test. Drop both planes from your bench to your concrete floor. I bet the LIe-Nielsen comes out without issue. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Jorgensen break, or dent. Good luck, and happy woodworking!
The fit and finish is deff better on LN no doubt about that and it will last longer lol the Jorgensen is made outta ductile iron and the iron is 01. I wish I would have included that because it is comming up alot lol showing my Noob side to TH-cam lol I never had good luck with WR :( I don't trust Rob on them cus he is sponsored by them but.. I have hear alot of guys that like WR and other guys that don't haha maybe I'll try a no 4. Only ever used a no3 and no5 in WR lol
One of the great things about living in a capitalist country is we have competition, striving for excellence and affordability. Lie-Nielsen has set the standard for a long time now, no doubt about it. I can remember when they were sort of affordable. Nowadays, particularly with inflation like it is, I’m no longer able to be in the market for them. Great to see Jorgensen taking up the mantle.
Jorgensen doesn't come from a capitalist country. Jorgensen was bought in 2016 by Hangzhou GreatStar Industrial. They ain't exactly based out of Milwaukee either. Nah they're from the heart of communist China. Big surprise there.
That Jorgensen would be considered a Bailey type frog adjustment. Some bedrocks have curved arced sides and others are straight, depends on vintage. How the frog is bedded on the Jorgensen looks more of the Bedrock style.
@@pinkerbot The continuous seating surface of the frog on the Jorgensen is more like a Bedrock design. Bailey design has at least three distinct mating surfaces, unless you are describing very early vintage Bailey's. However the retention mechanism on the Jorgensen is like the Bailey.
There are some users who leave frog retention screws loose enough to adjust frog with adjustment screw that it can be done without removing iron assembly on the Bailey design.
It actually looks they modeled it off the early round sided bedrock. The pins/screw connection wasn't introduced until the flat sides, the round sided bedrock frogs connected like this. To be honest, it looks really similar to the type 3 bedrocks, which were right before they switched to the flat sides and the use of pins.
When I purchase a tool, I think of it as buying time. It might be a band saw mill over an Alaskan mill , a box blade over a shovel, a high quality plane over a budget plane. If I need to spend time making a tool work I am loosing money, and time.
I agree; however, if you have the money then you don't need to spend the time. If you don't have the money you gotta spend the time. We can't have it all, it's usually one or the other. And not everyone can throw down for a LN, they need to know what options are out there so they can still enjoy the craft.
There always will be people who will buy the more expensive tools. Most of us don't need the top dog. I have four no4 planes. Stanley made in england. 1930s Made canada with no name. Stanley made in Australia. A cheap one from big retailer Chinese. All of them can take great shavings . Best is the no name canadian and the english stanley. Conclusion is almost any plane can be made to work. My whole collection cost a quarter the price of one top dog plane. I rest my case
(Lee Neelson) Although the irons appear the same, it's composition of the steel that is important. The Lie-Nielsen will stay sharp longer. Those are filistore or 'cheesehead' screws that hold the frog in place. And if I'm not mistaken, the Lie-Nielsen body is ductile iron and so is quite rugged. If the Jorgensen's body is cast iron, then it may crack or break if dropped to the floor. Btw, a swipe of candle wax on the soles will make those planes glide across the wood, and it won't cause any problems with finishing.
The Jorgensen iron is O1 and the body is Ductile Iron just like the LN. Rex K did a video where he threw the body of the Jorgensen over his shoulder, and it didn't break or crack or anything. He had an early model with a lot of issues tho, I am hoping he redoes the video now that they have made improvements. Will they ever beat LN, deff not. LN has better parts, fit and finish, etc. but it can take shavings as you saw lol its a good budget plane imo. I deff use plane wax I completely forgot to apply it in this video lol
So when I met Thomas Lie Nielson and his staff, I asked about the pronunciation, and they said Lie is pronounced like Lee. The Jorg is a kit. The machining is not nearly as finished and refined. The chip breaker and blade look fly cut, I assume they might be rough blanchard ground (which is usually done on big pieces) but the radius of the grind indicates they were not surface ground linear. I spent 3 weeks fettling a No 7 Record. It required that much work to get it flattened and set. I started buying Lie Nielsen and Veritas after that, or old fettled Stanleys. All work.. my Record now works, but would I do it again? No.. The work was not worth it. It was hard work. I now have a surface grinder and metal shop added to my wood shop, I could , but I won't. The price is worth their accuracy, finish and features. Oh, and I don't prefer a lever cap any longer, I like a screw. It's just more refineable.
I agree 100%, but what about the ppl thay can't afford a LN or Veritas? And maybe they are too new to know how to spend that much time on an old Stanley or Record? Jorg gives them a good middle ground. I just want ppl to enjoy the craft and start in the craft without feeling like they have to spend over $300 for a smoother. I still agree with you, thats why I have a LN on the bench but I deff didn't start there lol
@@BatCaveCreations And that's why old Stanley, is worth it's weight and value. I have stuff from 1890s, on through to the 1950s.. All much better value than a lot of what can be had. Most just required sharpening the plane irons and getting the cap true to the blade again. If I were a newbie, that's where I would spend my money. Most of the old stuff was fettled already.
Have you tried throwing a Hock or plv 11 iron in them? I love my Stanley's too but I deff upgraded the iron lol still alot comes down to preference I know alot of guys that use Stanley's with 100% OG parts and love them, no problem at all! If it works for you thats what matters most! Enjoy the tools!
@@BatCaveCreations Go through them to make them right and they will work as good as any of the premium brands. They won't need a thicker blade. Thicker blades have their own problems, they can make it impossible to adjust the blade because they are too thick to allow the lateral adjust to fit. That means jury rigging or buying special aftermarket parts. If I need a new blade, happened on a couple I bought, I buy the Veritas replacement, they are a bit thicker but don't have the problem of throwing the plane out of walk. Withe the frog face flattened and the base fitted to the mount, the sole flattened the plane will give as good a service as any of the premium ones for just an hour or so's worth of work and hundreds less in$.
@@rodneymagee6107 you are correct thicker irons can cause issues. Had it happen to me lol but yes it's the balance of time/work vs money. If you don't have the $ or don't wanna spend the $ you gotta put ij the work :D
@@BatCaveCreations : Being Norwegian I just noticed another thing: Both planes you compare in this video have Norwegian names. Thomas Lie-Nielsen is of Norwegian extraction and Jorgensen (spelled Jørgensen / Jörgensen) is also a 'Scandiwegian' name. The giveaway is in the '-sen' ending, meaning 'son of'. Keep making shavings my friend !
I poured myself a cold drink and sat down for some afternoon plane porn...Those shavings were the bomb ! LOL...Good video comparison. Since I'm on a budget, I would opt for the plane in orange in a hot minute ! She is one that won't break the bank and I like the style as I have a lot of orange and black in my shop.... Cheers. :-)
There’s more than fit and finish with the lie Nielsen. From here the iron looks thicker. From their site: Typical Lie Nielsen Blades are extra thick 1/8", made from Cryogenically treated A-2 steel tempered to Rockwell Rc 60-62,. I doubt the Jorgensen has this. All the way down the line the Lie Nielsens are exceptional quality. At 70 bucks the Jorgensen looks like a good value. Personally if 70 bucks was my budget, I’d get a Bailey on eBay. I just prefer American made. All my lie Nielsens out perform the rest of my collection. Thanks for the review.
The LN iron is thicker :) The Jorgensen is 01 and also has a ductile iron body. I prefer US made also for sure, when I can afford it hahah yes LN is deff top of the line I prefer them over stanley, the only stanly user I have now is a 607 cus I dont wanna pay $500 for a no 7 LN I don't use often haha
There have been all-metal planes for the past 100+ years. There have been top quality brands and low quality brands. Top quality brands have produced total crap now and then to meet a price point. Low quality brands have produced gems in order to break into a market or protect their 'reputation.' By and large, top quality does not require a lot of setup and tuning. The fact we can buy old Stanleys and Baileys that need the frog moved or the sole lapped is evidence that, like today, most people don't want to be bothered. Out-of-box is good enough (maybe sharper the iron). But THEY CAN BE TUNED TO A WONDERFUL STATE. Low quality planes are hit and miss, usually miss,. With a lot of time, they might be tunable for some purposes. Softer woods might shape great using these. Probably not so much on harder woods and the frog might have machining errors or (usually the case) the core body is too thin. Under increased pressures there's a tendency for the sole to flex. ex., Dunlaps. Historical evidence says the vast majority of US wood crafters preferred to buy quality brands and do the least amount of work to tune them.
I agree, and I prefer yo buy quality and not put work into planes but, esp when I started out, I couldn't afford quality and had to seek affordable planes and put work into them. But I agree with you, and I much prefer to pay for quality when I can and put little to no work into tools
I would say LN should be looking to lower their price a bit. If the Jorgenson performs as well as the LN then I'm buying it. The Jorgenson can be passed down just like the LN. The real truth is Jorgenson has blown the lid off high priced planes. After all you don't have a bigger set because you paid more you have a bigger set because your tools perform and work well. If you are smart and can do it for a 10th of the cost then you would be a dummy not to.
It's never the tool. It's always the guy using the tool.. and setting it up and sharpening the iron. I have some really good planes that cost a little more than most. (Dictum and Clifton). I also have a real cheap Stanley no.4. The Stanley does equally as well as the others but gets used more for the roughing out stages, then I use the more expensive ones for finish work.
But if fixing a poor tool takes so much time and knowhow that it never happens, its the tool. Before youtube, that was me. Now that tons of people explain these planes, no one should get caught like that anymore though. I am still a firm believer in buying a good aftermarket blade like Hock so you have decent steel to compare to.
The Lie Nielsen uses better materials and has a superior fit and finish but the Bailey design doesn't improve from any of that. It is what it is. The Bailey design works good regardless.
The test run clearly shows Jorgensen is not flat along the length (also could use some sharpening too). Not the end of the world and not the first plane to be out of flat, but it would be really interesting to know just how much out of flat is it.
I legitimately think these are the best starter planes on the market. Sure they're made in China but so are Woodriver, Bench Dog, and modern Stanley for way more money. Buying and refurbishing old Stanley's can be a real crapshoot and intimidating for beginners, these will get you working in a couple hours and you can take them back to Lowes if you run in to issues. You can always upgrade later and pass it on to someone or convert them to scrubs.
Sorry to those that I offended by saying "LIE" instead of "LEE", some of you seemed really heated about it hahaha I have corrected it moving forward but am not going to redo this video to just make sure I pronounce it correctly :D
I like your lie pronunciation they seem like an over priced yuppie company
I'm sure anyone who critiqued your pronunciation has never known how to pronounce something before. I'm guessing they are great spellers too. I wouldn't be sorry one bit to those claiming to be offended. They need to get a life.
@davidwhiteley3879 how dare you! Now I'm double offended
@Adam-zw1ck hahahahha thank you I needed that laugh!
Good comparison and thanks for your video. I use LN and have never had to sharpen one straight out of the box new. It's nice to see a less expensive one work as well as the top of the line. I tried a WR recently, took me an hour to get it to work as good as your orange one, $313.00.
I appreciate a company that has started making planes at a reasonable price for the average woodworker that can't afford the more expensive ones. Thanks again for your video.
A few years ago, I bought a "Silverline number 4" new, it was the best I could afford and it was cheap. It took some work, but I managed to get the desired shavings and more importantly, the finish to the wood. I have better planes now, "Faithfull", although far from being premium planes, they too can be made to work. Thank you for this video, it proves beyond all doubt that a budget plane can be made to work and hold it's own against the best. Granted, a premium plane has the engineering in its corner, but it's the finish to the wood that has the last say.
I fully agree with you and thank you for sharing!! If you find a $10 plane at a flea market, put some work into it and it will take shavings and leave a good surface!!
I just received the Jorgensen 10" smoothing plane and the block plane. Am amazed and pleased. Quality tools from a company I have admired for decades, their wood clamps. Thanks for this video. I am sure you will be surprised by the quality of the block plane.
I am! and I am surprised by the 101 also! I decided I am keeping all 3. I don't know if they will replace my main smoother but...... time will tell hahha Thank you for watching!
Jorgensen was sold a number of years ago to Hangzhou Greatstar Industrial. So that company you knew decades ago no longer exists today. It is just a trademark now. I suppose the tools are just as good as they were though. But yeah they're coming from a different place.
I saw your comment on Lowe’s and ended up here. Thanks to your review, I bought a Jorgensen no 4 today. I can’t wait to try it out this weekend and use it to build a nightstand tray for my daughter.
Thank you! That is awesome! I heard they stepped it up with quality control since this video to so they got even better!
@@BatCaveCreations the chip breaker was warped. I returned it and got a different one. The new one looks fine at first, but the blade isn’t square. I’m fine with that.
@richardvirgen-slane6820 dang! Maybe they haven't stepped it up, but I'm glad that you got one that will work!
I can appreciate that this review was a legitimate comparison rather then advocating the orange made in china plane. You gave us the facts and left it up to us to decide. Cheers for that and great video. With that said I'd like to add the main reason Lie-Nielsen is worth the extra $270. 1: The extra money is an investment in our community and neighbors here in the USA. 2: For the extra money you get a tool made with the best iron and steel in the world held to the highest standards which means you will pass this too down several generations. (China metal is held to no standards at all, I'd be embarrassed to pass this tool down to my son if it lasts that long). 3: Call Lie-Nelson tool works and a person that actually uses these tool will answer the phone, no automated system that requires you to choose numbers for an hour and eventually directs you to leave a message. (isn't that alone worth the extra cash) 4: Lie-Nielsen tools are made in small batches, not high production which of course means they have to charge more, but small batches means they can control quality much better. 5: Lastly, Lie-Nielsen backs their tools 100% and they take pride in every tool that leaves their shop. Those of us that are a bit older can remember what it means to take pride in your work. In conclusion, as a Journeyman toolmaker by trade and a mechanical engineer having 30ish years in manufacturing, I figures I would share my thoughts....Thanks all for reading my comment, and great video.
I LOVE THIS! Thank you so much for including your thoughts because they are all 100% accurate! LN Customer service is amazing, their quality control is top notch, they are in the USA!, and it is an heirloom tool that can be passed down well.... forever! That does speak volumes.
If people have the $$ LN is hands down the way to go, no doubt about that.
@@BatCaveCreations For the record (And I should have added this to my original comment), I would never mock a person for buying a cheap tool if that's all their budget will allow. (I've been there). What's important is that your making chips, now what your making it with. BTW I just got my LN No. 8 Jointer plane in the mail yesterday and I cant lie, I'm like a kid with a new toy. That thing is amazing. Right out of the box, no adjustments at all it made a perfect chip. Now I can plane flat those extra large pieces of Red Oak.
@@nowhereman4041 no i get you for sure! I had to start off cheap too, it happens as long as you have having fun and enjoying the craft.
Also YES!!! I am the same way anytime i get a new tool! I try to get the box as soon as it is delivered and open it up! haha LNs are basically perfect outta the box. I do like to five the blade a polish but they are good to go and that is part of what you pay for haha
Congratulations on the no 8! that is a big purchase but you will love it and use it for years! :D Have fun making shavings!!!!
Why would you be embarrassed to hand down the Jorgensen plane, I guarantee if you lapped the sole, sharpened the iron and tuned it a little it would work just as well as the Lie Neilson plane. That’s from a Carpenter of 25 years in Australia.
@@DissidentPrickironically, that dude is the prick
FYI for future reference its a Scandinavian name Lie Nielsen its said "Lee" like Bruce Lee not Lie as in lying .
I really enjoy these comparison videos. Very informative.
I enjoyed the tear-down + comparison. thx
Was in the boxorama yesterday and spied "the orange one" and went all WTF? Now you've gone and made me want it. I was actually in Lie-Nielsen's showroom last month and walked out with my wallet intact, but with no product. Subscribed!
You have way more restraint than I do to go into a LN showroom and walkout empty handed! I would be walking home cus I'd be pawning my truck to get planes hahhaha
I was in Lie Nielsen about a year ago and left empty handed. I was just too overwhelmed with what to get. And didn't want planes and chisels in my luggage (to Alabama). I've acquired a few vintage Stanleys over the years and used them. When I saw these Jorgensens had come out, I went out and bought them all. I'm impressed with the quality/cost. But I have yet to tune or use them. Looking forward to it though.
Great choice of No. 4 planes (LN and Jorgensen) to compare! I enjoyed the information on comparing the specs in the beginning, especially the weight and the blade specs. The blade thickness. You hit the essentials right out of the gate. I teach carpentry and grew up doing it. I've been doing woodworking for 15 years or so as a hobby and for a side job off and on.
Mostly for the enjoyment though. Keep the great topics and comparisons coming. The best was it was an original on youtube and great timing right before Christmas as woodworkers debate price, quality, and projects as gifts and requests. 👍
This is great to hear/read! Thank you!!!!
Just in lowes yesterday and bought the Jorgensen corner plane. I seen the #4 and the block plane sitting there. I seen one other youtube did a review on the #4. About the same comments.
Let me know how you like that corner plane! I'm thinking about grabbing one
Makes me wanna buy one, and I already have over 100 bench planes, most Stanley's, a couple of Veritas, Lie Nielsen, Record and Millers Falls ones.
It is deff worth a try! Would love to hear your thoughts since you have used way more different types of planes than I have!
@@BatCaveCreations the thing is, I have that many planes but I haven’t used more than 15. Sad life.
@@What_Other_Hobbies oh man.... if they are a collection I get it, for sale I get it, but.... any other reason is unacceptable hahah
Do you have a modern Jointer plane that you'd recommend? Looking to buy one.
@@XxIcedecknightxX can never go wrong with Lie Nielsen or Veritas but they are $$. I think the LN is $500+ ship and tax.
I use a vintage bedrock 607 as my Jointer cus I got it for $140. It works perfectly. I did upgrade the iron to a Hock
Oh P.S. the Lie in Lie-Nielson is pronounced "lee". #4 in their FAQ 🙂
Curious where the orange one is made and what kind of warranty it has?
It says made in China and "Lifetime Limited Warrenty". Assuming that means I can't drop it then try to return haha
LN its the fit and finish your paying for, plus it will hold its value much better, the frog and leaver cap are bronze not brass, but yeah $270 difference is a big Factor to consider, both will do the job 👍🏻
Saying brass is a habit just like saying Ly instead of Lee hahah
I would be interested in knowing what kind of iron steel was used and the relative hardness.
Their irons are O1 :) idk hardness tho lol
I was thinking exactly the same thing. Hardness and edge holding. The fit and finish on the Jorgensen looked remarkable for a plane in that price range!
I'm done buying planes (for now) but just can't get enough of top$ to budget comparisons! My 1st big boy plane was a Stanley contractor grade Jack. It took a million years to flatten, but worth every saved penny. I'm going to have to keep the Jorg in mind if I ever want another, (you liked its light weight). My current 4 is a hand me down Handyman, and I actually love how light it is; feels more in touch with the blade.
That's exactly why I like lighter planes. I know that's against the norm but I'm not normal haha I am tempted to try the REED brass knobs to see if I like weight in the front only which I may. It would make starting easier but for me lighter the better because of the feed back the plane gives. I'm very tactile lol
@@BatCaveCreations Well put - "feed back". Reminds me of all the money I wasted on suspension bicycles; ended up right where I started and learned how to adjust tire pressure, lol.
@@B.A.Bassangler haha like a back to basics practice! Trust me I get it lol
Hey. I bought this plane and it looks really good except for the fact that I'm unable to retract the iron all the way up even with the wheel maxed out all the way to the frog. This is after I moved the frog a little closer to the front to align it with the back of the mouth opening so that the iron doesn't rest in the mouth but on the frog only. Anyone have an idea of how to fix this? I really want to keep the plane
Check how close the chipbreaker is to the cutting edge. I had the same issue with mine but once I move the chip breaker like 1/16th away from the cutting edge it worked :)
Lemmie know if that helped or not, we can teouble shoot some more!
@@BatCaveCreations mine is as close as yours is when you first assembled it. Its right at the edge if the mouth. I'll try retracting it a bit. Thanks for replying!
No problem at all!
I'm not sure retracting the chipbreaker will help from what you've described. Check this video and see if that helps:
th-cam.com/video/EXVzeZyifXw/w-d-xo.html
Also, if that doesn't work try scooting the frog back and double checking if it's hitting the mouth or not, sometimes it looks like it is but it's not. Try sticking a piece of paper there to see if it is really touching.
@@BatCaveCreations how far back from the edge should I have the frog? Mine is currently flush with the mouth opening. I checked out your other vid, and I put the chip breaker as close to the edge as possible to have the iron as far up as I can but that wasn't enough.
@area 521 ah that's it! Back the frog away from the mouth. It is different for each plane so I can't tell you like a measurement or anything :( just gotta fiddle with it till you find it's happy place. Start by moving it back 1/16th, see if that let's you retract the iron. Of you can retract the iron then check to see if it's hitting the back of the mouth. Sometimes I need a flashlight to check this. If it is scoot it just slightly forward. It takes a bit of practice but take your time with it cus, if ur like me. I dont move my frog once it set (unless I'm filming a video hahah)
Great comparison! A slightly ridiculous recommendation for treatment of the plane sole is scraping - machinist style. You can look up my videos on the subject.
For planes, scraping does two things;
1. it gets the sole flat to the precision of your reference surface (I used a granite surface plate that's certified flat to 0.0001" or 1/10,000 of an inch). Doesn't seem like it would take much work for your planes here as they seem pretty damn flat already - my vintage Stanley Baileys were most definitely NOT flat.
2. it leaves little "wells" and "peaks" throughout the surface which provides a vast improvement not only in glide, but also in retention of plane wax. These wells are the basis of machinist ways on machines like mills and lathes - if the ways (or your plane sole) were honed to a fine polish, they wouldn't retain any oil, sanding the bearing surface coarse helps but not nearly as well as scraping.
It's overkill I know, but honestly seeing as how your planes are already quite flat, it wouldn't take you very long at all and you're obviously only performing it once for the lifetime of the plane.
In any case, great presentation!
Cheers and Merry Christmas!
- Jens
You are correct! I do have a granite plane I use for flattening plane soles; I don't think it is ridiculous to do this! All vintage planes I buy get their sole flattened to some degree.
I bought a Tay Tools Number 4 and the body of the plane was almost perfect but my blade was cupped. After purchasing a new Hock blade it seems to work flawlessly.
I haven't been able to try a TayTools plane as a bench plane I have purchased a taytools no 4 used but it was a converted scrub plane, it was amazing! It seems like a really solid and well made plane!
I spent about 3 hours fine tuning my new Jorgensen #4. The Jorgensen manual says the bottom is flat within .003, and based on my flattening the sole I would say that is correct, I just like my planes more flat and with a smoother bottom, so I spent the time and effort doing that. The blade bevel was at 25 degrees and reasonably sharp, but I put a secondary bevel using an extra fine diamond sharpener. The blade was flat on the back side and didn't require much time smoothing it out to finish the secondary bevel. The blade adjuster, for me, was not entirely satisfactory. I like to back the blade into the plane body and use the adjuster to sneak up on the cutting depth, but the adjuster would not retract the blade far enough as it bottomed out against the frog as I screwed it in. I removed the frog and removed the adjuster screw and adjuster wheel and used a file to remove a protruding burr around the screw hole which allowed the nut to screw in a bit more, which helped a bit and was enough to retract the blade into the body enough so it didn't shave wood. I put everything back together and started a cutting test on a construction grade 2x4, which resulted in a pleasant surprise, she cut quite nicely. I was able to get consistently .002 thick shavings. I got a few at .001, but was not consistent. I would rate this as a pretty darn good plane, especially for 70 bucks. I have several 70+ year old Stanley's and one Record plane, they are all superior to the Jorgensen, but only by a thin margin. I have absolutely no regrets buying the Jorgensen. With time and usage the performance should improve.
Thank you!! I am happy to hear it worked out for you and thank you for sharing what changes you needed to make. That is helpful for viewers to know!
Thanks so much for this (and the other orange comparisons which I'll get to very shortly)! If I may say this is a much better review of the Jorgensen smoother overall than Rex Kreuger's, which I think might have been the first.
_Really_ interesting to see the performance comparison. Because of the speed I couldn't see if there was a slight difference in the settings of the two cap irons/chipbreakers which might have something to do with the difference in tearout you were seeing between the two planes. ButI think there's a very good chance the leading edge of the cap iron needs a little fettling to make it work to its full potential given how the whole plane seems it could do with being deburred and arrises softened or chamferred.
I am SO not Lie-Nielsen's target market but their choice of cherry for their handles has always surprised me, not a fan looks-wise to start with but I'd really prefer a harder wood on paper at least, so I'm much more inclined towards beech which has been extensively used in Britain for many years.
BTW, in terms of price differential/performance, thought I'd mention that I bought a budget plane some years ago, _less than a tenth_ of what L-N's cost over here 😲that could probably hold its own against the more expensive plane. It took some work to set up - the kind of things you'd expect from a 30-40 buck plane (although the sole was dead flat) - but after that it performed v. well for me for some years. Asian rosewood handles too, which is nice!
I too saw Rex Krueger's review, and after watching this one, it looks as though Jorgensen company improved the product considerably in the meantime. Rex's sole wasn't even close to being flat, and lots of other bits had to be improved to get the plane working. Maybe Jorgensen saw his review.
Thank you for the comment!! The Jorgensen chip breaker was set a bit closer than the LN but I wasn't getting any tare out with either. To my surprise lol
I get you about targeted audiences! Not everyone wants to or can throw down for LN that's why I was really excited about these reviews! There are other options :D
What plane did you get? I'd be interested in buying and trying!
@@therealzilch I'm thinking that now too, he got one when it first came out. They have deff improved some things now!
@@BatCaveCreations Again, nice work, and I'm glad to see that there's an affordable plane that works so well, after a little tuning up. For beginning woodworkers, it's no disadvantage to do a bit of work that will also teach them about how the tool should work.
I've already had the Lie-Nielson for many years now, so it's not a decision I have to make. But I would recommend the Jorgensen to anyone starting out, based on your review.
Cheers from a musical instrument maker in Vienna, Scott
@@therealzilch $70 is still a lot for a No.4 plane. I've never paid more than $5 for an old one. I have paid as little as a buck for a mint condition Stanley No. 4. Now that's affordable. I don't think just having a plane is going to teach anyone much of anything either. Well, it might teach them that they have no natural aptitude for it I suppose.
When you pick up lie Nielsen it’s just feels like perfection, well worth the money if you have it
When you grab a plane, you're supposed to point your pointer finger just like a saw.
FYI the company name is pronounce LEE Nielsen. Thanks for taking the time to make the video.
Thanks. Probably buy the cheap one due to not using a plane very often and budget constraints.
No shame in that, that's where I started!
I’d be curious to see several examples of the Jorgensen, to get a feel for how consistent their manufacturing process is.
I had many people tell me theirs was perfect, I think only a handful said they have issues. if that helps? lol
I opened up and inspected 8-10 of them between two local Lowe's earlier in the year, only one had an actual issue (massive scratch on the side I think), the rest only had minor differences on top of the body like some excess/missing paint and extra grease/grime build up.
I've been happy with all my Jorgenson purchases, not the best or the cheapest but consistently good quality at a fair price (unlike Bessey 🙄)
Great video wish we could get the Jorgensen here in the UK.
you can
If the tote pinches your finger, you can modify it to fit your hand - it is made of wood for a reason!
I'm lazy haha and in learning that your supposed to out one finger out when planing didn't know that was what you were "supposed" to do hahah
Frog adjustment is crucial for figured woods
I've been experimenting with this alot on curly oak, I'm finding that the depth of the iron is having a larger effect than the frog position. I would like to try and make a video on this but need to keep experimenting because it's a wild concept that is against everything I was told when I started haha
In the training I’ve had you should only have 3 fingers in the tote. Your index finger should be pointing forward
It's funny I have been woodworking for a while now and never knew that's how ur "supposed" to do it haha imma be paying attention to that more cus I don't think thats something I do. That old habit may be tough to break ahha
@@BatCaveCreations i still do it “wrong” and have to think about it sometimes. I need more practice
@@MattLitkeRacing I guess I do it 😆 I'll check tonight and see what I naturally do. I'm thinking it's whole hand on the tote hahah
Your index finger should be on the side of the plane. That is why your hand doesn't fit the Lie-Nielsen. If the tote is still an issue, go to the 4 1/2 instead of the 4 as it will have a larger tote for an adult sized hand.
I wouldn't be so surprised about the shavings. The bigger comparison would be in the fit and finish. How much easier was it to setup? What type of materials is it made from? The blades and chip breakers are the same style which is why you noticed the Jorgensen looking the same. However if you had looked at the thickness you would have noted that both the blade and chip breaker on the Lie-Nielsen are thicker. This reduces chatter on tough grain. Plus I would guess that the quality of steel on the Lie-Nielsen blade and chip breaker are much better as well. this will help with edge retention on hard tough grained wood.
If you want something cheaper but better than the Jorgensen look at WoodRiver planes sold by woodcraft. Rob Cosman is a huge fan and has done a number of comparison videos. I personally own two of their planes as well. They are a step down from the Lie-Nielsen but also easier on the pocket book and you end up with a fantastic tool that will last generations with care.
If you want a real test. Drop both planes from your bench to your concrete floor. I bet the LIe-Nielsen comes out without issue. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Jorgensen break, or dent.
Good luck, and happy woodworking!
The fit and finish is deff better on LN no doubt about that and it will last longer lol the Jorgensen is made outta ductile iron and the iron is 01. I wish I would have included that because it is comming up alot lol showing my Noob side to TH-cam lol
I never had good luck with WR :( I don't trust Rob on them cus he is sponsored by them but.. I have hear alot of guys that like WR and other guys that don't haha maybe I'll try a no 4. Only ever used a no3 and no5 in WR lol
Is that the harbor freight bench?
No Rockler. It was on sale and cheeper than buying lumber and building haha its a good bench just gotta add cabinets under to get rid of movement
O love the Orange color
A little machinist's dye on the chip breaker, frog, and throat and a couple of hours of elbow grease would save you $270!
One of the great things about living in a capitalist country is we have competition, striving for excellence and affordability. Lie-Nielsen has set the standard for a long time now, no doubt about it. I can remember when they were sort of affordable. Nowadays, particularly with inflation like it is, I’m no longer able to be in the market for them. Great to see Jorgensen taking up the mantle.
Jorgensen doesn't come from a capitalist country. Jorgensen was bought in 2016 by Hangzhou GreatStar Industrial. They ain't exactly based out of Milwaukee either. Nah they're from the heart of communist China. Big surprise there.
Fine reply 🔨
That Jorgensen would be considered a Bailey type frog adjustment. Some bedrocks have curved arced sides and others are straight, depends on vintage. How the frog is bedded on the Jorgensen looks more of the Bedrock style.
Do you mean Bailey or Bedrock?
@@pinkerbot The continuous seating surface of the frog on the Jorgensen is more like a Bedrock design. Bailey design has at least three distinct mating surfaces, unless you are describing very early vintage Bailey's. However the retention mechanism on the Jorgensen is like the Bailey.
There are some users who leave frog retention screws loose enough to adjust frog with adjustment screw that it can be done without removing iron assembly on the Bailey design.
It actually looks they modeled it off the early round sided bedrock. The pins/screw connection wasn't introduced until the flat sides, the round sided bedrock frogs connected like this. To be honest, it looks really similar to the type 3 bedrocks, which were right before they switched to the flat sides and the use of pins.
The Jorgensen handle looks like the LA plane handles that the new Stanley sweethearts use
Yet it does! Never thought about that before!
When I purchase a tool, I think of it as buying time. It might be a band saw mill over an Alaskan mill , a box blade over a shovel,
a high quality plane over a budget plane. If I need to spend time making a tool work I am loosing money, and time.
I agree; however, if you have the money then you don't need to spend the time. If you don't have the money you gotta spend the time. We can't have it all, it's usually one or the other. And not everyone can throw down for a LN, they need to know what options are out there so they can still enjoy the craft.
Snappy intro love it
Definitely an improvement over the crappy Kobalt smoother Lowes used to sell...
AMEN! that was my first plane ever and I'm pretty sure I threw it against a wall hahhaha
Looked like the irons were thicker on the Lie.
They are, slightly
The lenielson deliberately makes you push your pointing finger out.
Pronounced "LEE" not "Lie" ... 😉
There always will be people who will buy the more expensive tools. Most of us don't need the top dog.
I have four no4 planes.
Stanley made in england. 1930s
Made canada with no name.
Stanley made in Australia.
A cheap one from big retailer
Chinese.
All of them can take great shavings .
Best is the no name canadian and the english stanley.
Conclusion is almost any plane can be made to work.
My whole collection cost a quarter the price of one top dog plane.
I rest my case
(Lee Neelson) Although the irons appear the same, it's composition of the steel that is important. The Lie-Nielsen will stay sharp longer. Those are filistore or 'cheesehead' screws that hold the frog in place. And if I'm not mistaken, the Lie-Nielsen body is ductile iron and so is quite rugged. If the Jorgensen's body is cast iron, then it may crack or break if dropped to the floor. Btw, a swipe of candle wax on the soles will make those planes glide across the wood, and it won't cause any problems with finishing.
You are absolutely correct. This guy is comparing quality with an inferior Chinese copy.
The Jorgensen iron is O1 and the body is Ductile Iron just like the LN. Rex K did a video where he threw the body of the Jorgensen over his shoulder, and it didn't break or crack or anything. He had an early model with a lot of issues tho, I am hoping he redoes the video now that they have made improvements. Will they ever beat LN, deff not. LN has better parts, fit and finish, etc. but it can take shavings as you saw lol its a good budget plane imo.
I deff use plane wax I completely forgot to apply it in this video lol
So when I met Thomas Lie Nielson and his staff, I asked about the pronunciation, and they said Lie is pronounced like Lee. The Jorg is a kit. The machining is not nearly as finished and refined. The chip breaker and blade look fly cut, I assume they might be rough blanchard ground (which is usually done on big pieces) but the radius of the grind indicates they were not surface ground linear. I spent 3 weeks fettling a No 7 Record. It required that much work to get it flattened and set. I started buying Lie Nielsen and Veritas after that, or old fettled Stanleys. All work.. my Record now works, but would I do it again? No.. The work was not worth it. It was hard work. I now have a surface grinder and metal shop added to my wood shop, I could , but I won't. The price is worth their accuracy, finish and features. Oh, and I don't prefer a lever cap any longer, I like a screw. It's just more refineable.
I agree 100%, but what about the ppl thay can't afford a LN or Veritas? And maybe they are too new to know how to spend that much time on an old Stanley or Record? Jorg gives them a good middle ground. I just want ppl to enjoy the craft and start in the craft without feeling like they have to spend over $300 for a smoother. I still agree with you, thats why I have a LN on the bench but I deff didn't start there lol
@@BatCaveCreations And that's why old Stanley, is worth it's weight and value. I have stuff from 1890s, on through to the 1950s.. All much better value than a lot of what can be had. Most just required sharpening the plane irons and getting the cap true to the blade again. If I were a newbie, that's where I would spend my money. Most of the old stuff was fettled already.
I'm not giving up my old Stanley's for anybody, they do as well as anybody even with their skinny blades.
Have you tried throwing a Hock or plv 11 iron in them?
I love my Stanley's too but I deff upgraded the iron lol still alot comes down to preference I know alot of guys that use Stanley's with 100% OG parts and love them, no problem at all! If it works for you thats what matters most! Enjoy the tools!
@@BatCaveCreations Go through them to make them right and they will work as good as any of the premium brands. They won't need a thicker blade. Thicker blades have their own problems, they can make it impossible to adjust the blade because they are too thick to allow the lateral adjust to fit. That means jury rigging or buying special aftermarket parts. If I need a new blade, happened on a couple I bought, I buy the Veritas replacement, they are a bit thicker but don't have the problem of throwing the plane out of walk. Withe the frog face flattened and the base fitted to the mount, the sole flattened the plane will give as good a service as any of the premium ones for just an hour or so's worth of work and hundreds less in$.
@@rodneymagee6107 you are correct thicker irons can cause issues. Had it happen to me lol but yes it's the balance of time/work vs money. If you don't have the $ or don't wanna spend the $ you gotta put ij the work :D
Lie-Nielsen is pronounced the same way as you would 'Lee'.
Oh trust me this is about the 100th time I've been told haha old habits die hard
@@BatCaveCreations : Being Norwegian I just noticed another thing: Both planes you compare in this video have Norwegian names. Thomas Lie-Nielsen is of Norwegian extraction and Jorgensen (spelled Jørgensen / Jörgensen) is also a 'Scandiwegian' name. The giveaway is in the '-sen' ending, meaning 'son of'.
Keep making shavings my friend !
@@barkebaat that is really cool! I didn't even notice that. Thank you for sharing!
I poured myself a cold drink and sat down for some afternoon plane porn...Those shavings were the bomb ! LOL...Good video comparison. Since I'm on a budget, I would opt for the plane in orange in a hot minute ! She is one that won't break the bank and I like the style as I have a lot of orange and black in my shop.... Cheers. :-)
Thank you!!
Yes I love the jorgy! LN is gone now, worth more to have that cash in my pocket hahaha
There’s more than fit and finish with the lie Nielsen. From here the iron looks thicker. From their site:
Typical Lie Nielsen Blades are extra thick 1/8", made from Cryogenically treated A-2 steel tempered to Rockwell Rc 60-62,. I doubt the Jorgensen has this. All the way down the line the Lie Nielsens are exceptional quality. At 70 bucks the Jorgensen looks like a good value. Personally if 70 bucks was my budget, I’d get a Bailey on eBay. I just prefer American made. All my lie Nielsens out perform the rest of my collection. Thanks for the review.
The LN iron is thicker :)
The Jorgensen is 01 and also has a ductile iron body.
I prefer US made also for sure, when I can afford it hahah yes LN is deff top of the line I prefer them over stanley, the only stanly user I have now is a 607 cus I dont wanna pay $500 for a no 7 LN I don't use often haha
There have been all-metal planes for the past 100+ years. There have been top quality brands and low quality brands.
Top quality brands have produced total crap now and then to meet a price point. Low quality brands have produced gems in order to break into a market or protect their 'reputation.'
By and large, top quality does not require a lot of setup and tuning. The fact we can buy old Stanleys and Baileys that need the frog moved or the sole lapped is evidence that, like today, most people don't want to be bothered. Out-of-box is good enough (maybe sharper the iron). But THEY CAN BE TUNED TO A WONDERFUL STATE.
Low quality planes are hit and miss, usually miss,. With a lot of time, they might be tunable for some purposes. Softer woods might shape great using these. Probably not so much on harder woods and the frog might have machining errors or (usually the case) the core body is too thin. Under increased pressures there's a tendency for the sole to flex. ex., Dunlaps.
Historical evidence says the vast majority of US wood crafters preferred to buy quality brands and do the least amount of work to tune them.
I agree, and I prefer yo buy quality and not put work into planes but, esp when I started out, I couldn't afford quality and had to seek affordable planes and put work into them. But I agree with you, and I much prefer to pay for quality when I can and put little to no work into tools
I would say LN should be looking to lower their price a bit. If the Jorgenson performs as well as the LN then I'm buying it. The Jorgenson can be passed down just like the LN. The real truth is Jorgenson has blown the lid off high priced planes. After all you don't have a bigger set because you paid more you have a bigger set because your tools perform and work well. If you are smart and can do it for a 10th of the cost then you would be a dummy not to.
Very well put! I am also a firm believer in vintage planes and be tuned up to perform just as well too. The only difference is the time put into them
It's never the tool. It's always the guy using the tool.. and setting it up and sharpening the iron.
I have some really good planes that cost a little more than most. (Dictum and Clifton).
I also have a real cheap Stanley no.4. The Stanley does equally as well as the others but gets used more for the roughing out stages, then I use the more expensive ones for finish work.
But if fixing a poor tool takes so much time and knowhow that it never happens, its the tool. Before youtube, that was me. Now that tons of people explain these planes, no one should get caught like that anymore though. I am still a firm believer in buying a good aftermarket blade like Hock so you have decent steel to compare to.
That's exactly what I decided to do! Jorgensen for rough and LN for fine!
The Lie Nielsen uses better materials and has a superior fit and finish but the Bailey design doesn't improve from any of that. It is what it is. The Bailey design works good regardless.
Yes it deff does! Many guys use them, I do for a 607 cus I don't wanna pay $500 for a LN 7 I don't use often haha
Sorry about that
About what?
The test run clearly shows Jorgensen is not flat along the length (also could use some sharpening too). Not the end of the world and not the first plane to be out of flat, but it would be really interesting to know just how much out of flat is it.
9:12
Lee not ly
Oh trust me my FB messages started blowing up when I started these videos haha
Old habits die hard now tho 😆
You sound a bit like Steve Blum
Little known fact, he just acts as me for his normal everyday voice. We don't advertise this tho haha
I legitimately think these are the best starter planes on the market. Sure they're made in China but so are Woodriver, Bench Dog, and modern Stanley for way more money. Buying and refurbishing old Stanley's can be a real crapshoot and intimidating for beginners, these will get you working in a couple hours and you can take them back to Lowes if you run in to issues. You can always upgrade later and pass it on to someone or convert them to scrubs.
I agree and wish these were around when I got into woodworking hahaha
I’d Lee If I said him mispronouncing LN didn’t bother me to the moon and back.
Hahaha I love what you did there! And trust me I changed my ways! :D
я ничего не понял :)
LEE!!!! LEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!
6. Thank you
Not 270 worth more
Pronounced Yorgen-sen
Glad you enjoyed the video.