This is why I'm really glad the developers didn't rush to make big changes to the civs in the latest patch. The meta for this game is changing every week, it would have been really premature to start changing the civs. Right now I think they just need to focus on patching bugs and watching how the meta unfolds so that the next big patch can address the things that really need to be changed.
yeah the only two things are springalds should keep the same seige damage but lower it against units, and then obviously nerf french on water. But I think anything else is too premature
100% agreed, it's way too early to make any major changes to the balance. They should focus on fixing bugs and improving the UI, making the game more playable and only step in to address game breaking stuff. Making constant balance changes at the whims of the community i feel would be to the detriment of this game, like they did "fixing" the mongol TC rush, i found it such an arbitrary rushed change especially given that the reason it was so strong was the bugged movement speed.
@@emberwaves311 ya. And those are the ones they highlighted, for good reason. Obviously, there are lots of other smaller balance changes coming, but a lot of them are big fixes anyway. I don't want to see any major balance swings until a little later, because after springalds and French water get nerfed, we're gonna see huge meta shifts yet again.
There's nothing wrong with a 100+ changes patch as long as they want to intentionally shake up/rework aspects of the meta. For example china having trash landmarks and being balanced around 1 broken one isn't a good thing, and it shouldn't be balanced around that.
@@advancedmonkey7702 iono. This doesn't really make sense, because they're practicing civs and with playstyles that aren't going to work after the patch anyway. There's no reason to play fast springalds China in preparation for a patch that is going to nerf the springalds. Right?
@@Cyrribrae practice doesn't mean you have to play against yourself, it just getting familiar with the Civ, changing the "playstyle" is as easy as changing the speed of breath for the top players.
I'm glad AoE 4 is getting as much coverage as it is because it is damn near a case study so far on how game metas evolve over time, just compressed over a little over a month. Even though I don't really care about playing meta it is fascinating to watch.
Never get Imperial Academy to have 40 tax collection tech AND use 0 official for dedicated tax collection AND complaining taxes takes forever to take out, classic.
I have been watching these endlessly the past few weeks - I havent played much AOE before I really like how you explain tactics and strats in your commentaries!!
I startwd playing with China and did not play any other civ until I mastered them. For now I feel very comfortable with them and you have plenty waits if how to play them. Also that you can build all landmarks it's quite good
I play HRE which i feel are also heavily dependant on getting castle age. Watching these top tier players i dont see rushes very often/heavy pressure in the beginning. But at lower tiers (where I am at) i feel it is more prevelant. What would the best strat be for fending off a strong civ like england or france early all while trying to get castle age as HRE?
Aussie Drongo I do like your analysis. Your videos do a great job of informing us about the game and the players and how to play as (or against) some of these races!
Most games I've watched with China in them, are losses for the chinese player. Yes, people are experimenting but the situation is a LONG way from China being a dominant civ without a balance pass.
Clocktower don't really need any nerf to be honest, the problem mostly lies with springalds. I just decimated a delhi player making dozen of elephants just spamming chinese springalds + increased movement upgrade on my last game.
Chinese springalds are strong, yes, but I think the main problem there is elephants being really fucking underwhelming value for money. I watched a relatively high level game where Rus mass springalds which could decimate any army in a direct confrontation were totally countered by rat tactics, in this case firelancers rushing into the enemy base and sniping out landmarks, making use of the springalds' low speed and building dmg
Hey Drongo :) i got someone you could cast a game from. My favourite AOE Player at the moment is Maxim, he is a German TH-camr that started out as a league let's player, evolved into an actual shoutcaster for league and is now a (game)diversity TH-camr and Streamer. He mains Rus at the moment and is actually really good, i would love to see a cast if one of his games :) he is around Rank 100 at the moment, 1300 elo i think. Thanks btw for the great content, its really fun to watch these games with your expertise and knowledge sprinkled in :)
You are legit the most entertaining gaming TH-camr there is. Im such a noob at AOE and I'm not even an RTS player but I just love watching your vids man. Great job! Perhaps consider branching out to other games which are a bit more mainstream?
As long as Mongols civs exist in its current state, China civs will always be one step lower. Devs need to improve certain dogshit landmarks since they're so niche/useless that nobody runs it. Springalds also need to be nerfed on certain civs or in general to reduce the abuse in this sort of meta.
I would like to watch a non mirror high level China game without needing some god level micro and game sense to survive early games, obviously China would look good in a mirror game, I mean duh?
Civ counters (often map-dependent) will always be there. After nearly 2 decades of balancing, that's the situation AoE2 and AoE3 settled for, and it works excellently. Both games are in an incredibly good state of balance (except for maybe the recent civs added to those games).
@@fanzhang5568 high level China game? I know one. I meaning~ a lot~ just a guy know how to play china~ and he say china is powerful~ But everyone only pays attention to china dynasties, No one knows that imperial officials is so op.
There's a trick that Viper is not abusing with the Chinese, which is to ALWAYS build your farms away from TC, and instead close to a mill so your Tax collector can boost the mill! Let the food flood in
Barbican of the Sun is actually pretty nice for dissuading early knights. Since they shoot hand cannons rather than arrows, doing more to armored. Also imperial palace ain’t bad
All I see here is: Knights beat springalds. Viper could've gone knights only and drop the springalds and he'd have done even better with equal resources. You need actual counters like spears in front or crossbows behind your springalds to make them effective.
I'm loving this game and this content! One thing I'm confused about tho is how are they ranked on a ladder when there's no ranked mode right now? 🤔 jw if somebody could clarify Edit: I'm new to this game
I really want to make Delhi work but it only has mid to late game tools at its disposal. It can't survive against an agressive 1v1, it's good in 2v2 though.
Not gonna lie, it’s a tiny bit confusing when you use the AOE name of the Zhuge Nu. Takes me an extra sec to remember what you’re talking about. Just saying my 2 cents! This comes from a place of love for your casting.
Except they're actually just pronounced the same way, according to my Chinese friend. Zhuge Nu is the exact same thing, even pronounced the same way, just spelled different.
True I agree china is op. But for some reason I like Delhi sultanate because of free technology upgrades. I know it will take 6+ mins to upgrade. So, I garrison 9 scholars in mosque and every upgrade will take 1-1:30 mins only. Still I will say china is op in late game.
ive never played aoe4 but i enjoy these videos what's with all the hate you guys? are you not enjoying actual content with great commentary of top tier games?
Crazy enjoying it. It's just china is definitely one of the lower tier civs. The title is missleading in the sense that china itself is never meta. It's viper just being a great player.
@@caspuchiha I don't mind it, it gives more incentive to watch than Lidakor's video. Only real aoe4 fans who're trying to learn the game and improve would watch a lidakor video, but the clickbaity titles and thumbnails of drongo can attract players from other games which ends up growing the playerbase
To be fair, I think Viper loses on this channel more than he wins lol. But of his (featured on this channel) Chinese games, I think he has a positive win:loss hahaha
Most Drongo videos featuring the Viper show him losing in various scenarios, regardless of the civ he picks. His titles are normally clickbait but the narrative about China getting picked more as a dominant springald civ is 100% accurate
Did you ever stop to think maybe he is winning because he’s TheViper ? He could probably beat most players with one hand, that doesn’t mean it’s the best way to play or that playing with one hand is S tier. This clickbait content is getting really lame.
I mean. He's a TH-cam content creator, figuring the algorithm and casting multiple games A DAY. Give the man a break lol. I ignore the titles nowadays and just enjoy the content.
There's an upsurge in high level players picking the Chinese, so clearly it's not just a false narrative. Also this is one of the few Drongo videos where Viper doesnt lose, I swear if you only watched this channel you'd get the impression Viper was one of the weaker pro players.
Did you ever stop to think that the title has nothing to do with theviper ? it's about the predominant springald meta which makes chinese an obvious good choice of civ
You can check out TheViper here ➤ th-cam.com/users/TheViperAOE
How was this posted 10 hours ago?
Age of empires 4 would be banned in China if it wasn't a little OP lol
Cast some of Viper's aoe2 games.....for those who dont understand whats special about him that u made a whole series on him
@@brandon5012 😂great point. Their accents are practically the same
This is why I'm really glad the developers didn't rush to make big changes to the civs in the latest patch. The meta for this game is changing every week, it would have been really premature to start changing the civs. Right now I think they just need to focus on patching bugs and watching how the meta unfolds so that the next big patch can address the things that really need to be changed.
yeah the only two things are springalds should keep the same seige damage but lower it against units, and then obviously nerf french on water. But I think anything else is too premature
100% agreed, it's way too early to make any major changes to the balance. They should focus on fixing bugs and improving the UI, making the game more playable and only step in to address game breaking stuff. Making constant balance changes at the whims of the community i feel would be to the detriment of this game, like they did "fixing" the mongol TC rush, i found it such an arbitrary rushed change especially given that the reason it was so strong was the bugged movement speed.
Well Patch next week with over 100 balance changes might have a word with you....
@@emberwaves311 ya. And those are the ones they highlighted, for good reason. Obviously, there are lots of other smaller balance changes coming, but a lot of them are big fixes anyway. I don't want to see any major balance swings until a little later, because after springalds and French water get nerfed, we're gonna see huge meta shifts yet again.
There's nothing wrong with a 100+ changes patch as long as they want to intentionally shake up/rework aspects of the meta. For example china having trash landmarks and being balanced around 1 broken one isn't a good thing, and it shouldn't be balanced around that.
The sheer amount of CONTENT this man is pumping out. Respect+
I started to invest myself a lot in aoe4 during spare times thanks to this guy, absolutely mega
It’s insane and I love it
Probably being in a locked down country don't have much else to do.
Modern day Husky
First it's English, then French, then Delhi, then Mongols, then Chinese. I'm starting to think this game is balanced.
All top player knew French and Mongol are gonna get nerf so they want to practice the Civs are on the downlow.
this
@@advancedmonkey7702 iono. This doesn't really make sense, because they're practicing civs and with playstyles that aren't going to work after the patch anyway. There's no reason to play fast springalds China in preparation for a patch that is going to nerf the springalds. Right?
@@Cyrribrae practice doesn't mean you have to play against yourself, it just getting familiar with the Civ, changing the "playstyle" is as easy as changing the speed of breath for the top players.
HRE ???
Finally a match where China wins!
Thankie sai for the spoiler.
Spoiler!
C'mon man
I'm glad AoE 4 is getting as much coverage as it is because it is damn near a case study so far on how game metas evolve over time, just compressed over a little over a month. Even though I don't really care about playing meta it is fascinating to watch.
Never get Imperial Academy to have 40 tax collection tech AND use 0 official for dedicated tax collection AND complaining taxes takes forever to take out, classic.
Where can I find the ladder in Age of Empires IV which you mentioned in the video?
Learning so much with these Vids. Thank you.
Yes, the one who leaves a space for his villagers is the legend, Fatslob
@Aussie_Drongo This man is right, Fatslob is the one that does it.
It is Fatslob indeed, I wonder if we will see him on AoE 4 too, while unlikely I think there is a chance.
I have been watching these endlessly the past few weeks - I havent played much AOE before I really like how you explain tactics and strats in your commentaries!!
I love how often you upload
I love how mirrors show what each player did or didn't do and how it turns out... harder to see with def civs
isn't the mill upgrade "fertilization" bugged and only work for farms ?
I startwd playing with China and did not play any other civ until I mastered them. For now I feel very comfortable with them and you have plenty waits if how to play them. Also that you can build all landmarks it's quite good
Same. And I think that is the reason the landmarks are somewhat weak. You can have all of them
Who else is just happy to have a new RTS to play?
And imo a damn good one to play
Keep uploding Viper's gameplay, really amazing player! Thanks for the content!
I play HRE which i feel are also heavily dependant on getting castle age. Watching these top tier players i dont see rushes very often/heavy pressure in the beginning. But at lower tiers (where I am at) i feel it is more prevelant. What would the best strat be for fending off a strong civ like england or france early all while trying to get castle age as HRE?
The player with landing spot near TC is Fatslob. A lot of T90 videos about him
great work, much improved since the release
how does china surive briton longbow rampush or mongol doublerange x2 push with rams - i dont see them even close to s-tier
Your voice is amazing, it reminds me of toralbiscuit voice. Been loving your gameplays/casting of AOE4
I hear my games in his voice now 🤣
Aussie Drongo I do like your analysis.
Your videos do a great job of informing us about the game and the players and how to play as (or against) some of these races!
the obsession with putting things into tiers continues
it's stupid right?
With how the meta evolved, It's almost like the game is actually balanced.
Game will never be balanced , people will find the next thing to complain .
Drongo you need to check out the Russ attack ships. They have some game breaking mechanics that I think you would appreciate! Love the vids
Viper playing Chinese: I am playing lower tier civs guys for practice and memes guys.
TH-cam: Chinese taking over!!!
Most games I've watched with China in them, are losses for the chinese player. Yes, people are experimenting but the situation is a LONG way from China being a dominant civ without a balance pass.
Villagers T-Posing sheep at 6:15
Will you be covering Mexico for aoe3?
Clocktower don't really need any nerf to be honest, the problem mostly lies with springalds. I just decimated a delhi player making dozen of elephants just spamming chinese springalds + increased movement upgrade on my last game.
Chinese springalds are strong, yes, but I think the main problem there is elephants being really fucking underwhelming value for money.
I watched a relatively high level game where Rus mass springalds which could decimate any army in a direct confrontation were totally countered by rat tactics, in this case firelancers rushing into the enemy base and sniping out landmarks, making use of the springalds' low speed and building dmg
I never considered the scout as a good and cheap anti springald.
China once united must divide
China once divided must unite
I want to see you do the battle again the hardest AI but The AI is China.
wow a chinese win? thats gotta be a miracle
Hard to lose as chinese in this battle..
Mr Drongo, we need a cameo with spirit of the law, in the future maybe?
I mean, siege nearly outrunning cavalry seems like something that they could look at when it comes to balancing :P
btw this is why its a good thing that they dont throw out a balance patch right away and actually wait how the meta turns around
Ahhh yes, the 1000 year Dynasty...
should do a tier list on landmarks
Don't you dare take back that "cognicent" word!!!!
Lol hes winning because he’s Viper. If Viper could play against himself, the Viper playing China would lose.
They were both playing China though 😉
You copied that exact comment from Reddit didn't you...
Hey Drongo :) i got someone you could cast a game from.
My favourite AOE Player at the moment is Maxim, he is a German TH-camr that started out as a league let's player, evolved into an actual shoutcaster for league and is now a (game)diversity TH-camr and Streamer. He mains Rus at the moment and is actually really good, i would love to see a cast if one of his games :) he is around Rank 100 at the moment, 1300 elo i think.
Thanks btw for the great content, its really fun to watch these games with your expertise and knowledge sprinkled in :)
Honor lacht
French is no longer op when everyone well prepared for the knight rush...
I love the emphasis on viper watch lol you have to do that voice every time please
You are legit the most entertaining gaming TH-camr there is. Im such a noob at AOE and I'm not even an RTS player but I just love watching your vids man. Great job!
Perhaps consider branching out to other games which are a bit more mainstream?
As long as Mongols civs exist in its current state, China civs will always be one step lower. Devs need to improve certain dogshit landmarks since they're so niche/useless that nobody runs it. Springalds also need to be nerfed on certain civs or in general to reduce the abuse in this sort of meta.
I would like to watch a non mirror high level China game without needing some god level micro and game sense to survive early games, obviously China would look good in a mirror game, I mean duh?
Civ counters (often map-dependent) will always be there. After nearly 2 decades of balancing, that's the situation AoE2 and AoE3 settled for, and it works excellently. Both games are in an incredibly good state of balance (except for maybe the recent civs added to those games).
@@fanzhang5568 high level China game? I know one. I meaning~ a lot~ just a guy know how to play china~ and he say china is powerful~ But everyone only pays attention to china dynasties, No one knows that imperial officials is so op.
You should find some of Cheese's games where he plays Rus he's got a really weird but effective strat
Barbecue of the Sun
Turin now having success with China as well,seems it's more a case that it takes a bit longer to master rather than being a "weaker Civ"
Very powerful civ just needs some unit micro mastery.
There's a trick that Viper is not abusing with the Chinese, which is to ALWAYS build your farms away from TC, and instead close to a mill so your Tax collector can boost the mill! Let the food flood in
Landmark tierlist coming when? 👀
"I dont know who Spirit of the Law is" BLASPHEMY
Barbican of the Sun is actually pretty nice for dissuading early knights. Since they shoot hand cannons rather than arrows, doing more to armored. Also imperial palace ain’t bad
and Chinese towers as well
@@skyacaniadev2229 theyre okay i guess. better than other civ towers for feudal age defense. But it honestly takes away from tc stone.
@@jasonyun1158 yeah 2nd tc first ofc
this time i missed *on the top left is VIIPPURRRRR* :D
All I see here is: Knights beat springalds. Viper could've gone knights only and drop the springalds and he'd have done even better with equal resources. You need actual counters like spears in front or crossbows behind your springalds to make them effective.
Form up you maggots. Spears in front, archers behind.
was it Fatslob that never set rally point for villagers?
fatslob was the black forest player. t90 video
@17:30 Drongo low-key plugging Fat slob the Aoe2 Low ELO Blackforest legend. Fatslob is king kudos T90Official. Big love.
I'm loving this game and this content! One thing I'm confused about tho is how are they ranked on a ladder when there's no ranked mode right now? 🤔 jw if somebody could clarify
Edit: I'm new to this game
Hi! On the official Age of Empires 4 you can find a ladder of the most multiplayer-powerful players at the moment, based on points and winstreaks ^^
@@angeloangelica2907 thanks! i figured somthing of the nature but wasnt exactly sure.
If you think about it, turn speed for siege would be fine nerf so that arty would not be able to kite.
1000 YEAR DYNASTY!!!!!!!!!!!
What is meta?
I really want to make Delhi work but it only has mid to late game tools at its disposal. It can't survive against an agressive 1v1, it's good in 2v2 though.
Wrong... Have you seen the Dheli two mosk build order?
@@Nairam10 Haven't learn to do magic yet, teach me wizard?
It's Fatslob that refused to set a gather point and left space in the front. Check T90
Hahahaha you're talking about fatslob. He'd always leave a little walk way for his villagers
Scouts = AoE3's Oprichnik?
Scout meta
Voipahh!
There is only one way to punish the boomer, early mobile agression like hera does to viper in aeo2
whoever viper/top player plays = that civ is top/op S-rank. its as simple as that.
Everything has had its turn with "THE META" so is it safe to say the game is just kinda balanced and it depends on skill of the player?
Aussiee! Your subs are booom
"China is an incredibly strong civ when it comes to playing greedy." - You don't say? :D
I love playing China on 4v4 maps. The power of greed reaches new hights in a game like that.
Atrioc started a movement
The 1000 year dinasty has become
It seems Only lucifron can beat theviper... With the mongols ofc
Love how the conclusion "china is a top civ" comes from people playing china mirrors ... XD
Not gonna lie, it’s a tiny bit confusing when you use the AOE name of the Zhuge Nu. Takes me an extra sec to remember what you’re talking about.
Just saying my 2 cents! This comes from a place of love for your casting.
Except they're actually just pronounced the same way, according to my Chinese friend. Zhuge Nu is the exact same thing, even pronounced the same way, just spelled different.
Been saying from day 1 nest of bees is the best unit in the game.
Springalds shouldnt do nearly as much against units.
Social Credit + 1000
Wait until they figure out the HRE 😏
maybe after the patch fixing the prelate next week
@@BSEUNHIR yea, it's kind of tilting when he decides to stop buffing for no reason.
True I agree china is op. But for some reason I like Delhi sultanate because of free technology upgrades. I know it will take 6+ mins to upgrade. So, I garrison 9 scholars in mosque and every upgrade will take 1-1:30 mins only. Still I will say china is op in late game.
Deer ai needs a buff in the next patch. Why sit there while your fam dies... so sad :,(
China vs China match, and people are concluding that Chinese might not be so bad after all lol
Answer:
No
CHINA No. 1!
Chinese is overlooked but I believe it can be strong!
stupid unit meta with all the springs gonna skip on AOE4 until new unit meta show up.
China is really fun to play... except its early game is kinda weak...
3 x 1.35 = 4.05
but that's not right since in game vills are produced in 100%-35% = 65% as much time, 3 / 0.65 = 4.615
it's not 35% more efficient, it's a time reduction of 35%, which makes it 13s instead of 20s : 13 / 20 = 0.65
ive never played aoe4 but i enjoy these videos
what's with all the hate you guys? are you not enjoying actual content with great commentary of top tier games?
aware!
Crazy enjoying it. It's just china is definitely one of the lower tier civs. The title is missleading in the sense that china itself is never meta. It's viper just being a great player.
When china gets the buff coming next week tho.. might go to an A tier for sure
Love the content, it's just annoying that his titles are often misleading or clickbait
@@caspuchiha I don't mind it, it gives more incentive to watch than Lidakor's video. Only real aoe4 fans who're trying to learn the game and improve would watch a lidakor video, but the clickbaity titles and thumbnails of drongo can attract players from other games which ends up growing the playerbase
What’s with these clickbait titles ? He’s winning because he’s Viper, it has nothing to do with what civ he picks.
To be fair, I think Viper loses on this channel more than he wins lol. But of his (featured on this channel) Chinese games, I think he has a positive win:loss hahaha
Most Drongo videos featuring the Viper show him losing in various scenarios, regardless of the civ he picks. His titles are normally clickbait but the narrative about China getting picked more as a dominant springald civ is 100% accurate
the title has nothing to do with theviper, it's only because of the springald meta, which he thoroughly explained in the video
overuse of "meta"
CCP 1908 China fight
No, no it's not.
AoE 3 is dead to him, isn't it?
Can you blame him? New sequel to the venerable franchise which doesn't have its meta established yet means many interesting videos.
Did you ever stop to think maybe he is winning because he’s TheViper ? He could probably beat most players with one hand, that doesn’t mean it’s the best way to play or that playing with one hand is S tier. This clickbait content is getting really lame.
I mean. He's a TH-cam content creator, figuring the algorithm and casting multiple games A DAY. Give the man a break lol. I ignore the titles nowadays and just enjoy the content.
There's an upsurge in high level players picking the Chinese, so clearly it's not just a false narrative. Also this is one of the few Drongo videos where Viper doesnt lose, I swear if you only watched this channel you'd get the impression Viper was one of the weaker pro players.
Did you ever stop to think that the title has nothing to do with theviper ? it's about the predominant springald meta which makes chinese an obvious good choice of civ