Why Feed Grain to Livestock? Joel Answers a Listener’s Question
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ต.ค. 2021
- Joel answers a question from a listener regarding feeding grain to livestock. He dives into what animals ate in the wild versus today, and explains the “compromises” farmers are faced with in our modernized food system.
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Disclaimer: The information provided by Joel Salatin and Sina McCullough, PhD is not intended to prevent, diagnose, treat, or cure any disease. The information provided in the podcasts, videos, and show descriptions is for educational purposes only. It is not intended to diagnose or treat any medical or psychological condition. The information provided is not meant to prevent, treat, mitigate or cure such conditions. The information provided is not medical advice nor is it designed to replace advice, information, or prescriptions you receive from your healthcare provider. Consult your health care provider before making any changes to your diet, medication, or lifestyle. Proceed at your own risk.
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Back in the day: my great aunt and uncle kept a small dairy farm (< 15 cows). Every morning, after milking, they would separate the cream, which was sold to the local dairy (cream was a cash crop that paid the property taxes). The whey was mixed with everything (leftovers from meals, corn huskings, pea pods, etc) and fed to the pigs (usually two). In the fall, they butchered the pigs and smoked the meat with country cures (salt, honey). Life was . . . not affluent . . . but . . . beyond good. They lived the American dream. Nostalgic? You bet. This is a life I dream about.
Was this recently or do you think it could be replicated today?
@@leothiessen3418 if getting the ball moving now or prior it is possible. Now if he’s 55 and $40,000 in debt…. Might as well keep eatin the Micky D’s for that. Work hard and steady. Put money away. Live on LESS THAN YOU MAKE. Stay home more. Eat at home more. Start selling eggs and meats if you can and try to sell at least $1000 worth. You can then put that in your taxes Line F and state that you are a farm or homestead and start getting paperwork done with the USDA or Rural Development (they work better with first time home buyers🤫🤫) you just need to prove you have a farm selling and brining in money, recording it, the paper work complete and at least 3 properties you are interested in. The property(ies) must be at least $10,000. Yes stay away from debt but unless you make $120,000 a year and can put some of that away that’s the only way you do this. Or if you family had a farm or land and has passed it down to you.
Exactly as I plan to do.
get to it!
What is stopping you? Dreams should be lived.
Thank you Sina for letting Joel talk, it was very interesting.
Hi Janice! I found his explanation fascinating! I love to hear him talk, too. : )
2 years on I'd like to +1 this. Whilst Joel repeats himself a lot in thought (not leaving much cap to be interrupted) too many interviewers ask a question then interrupt the answer
Thank you for a great question and the thoughtful and answer. I am a new homesteader/farmer and have read most all of Joel's books among many other farming books as well as watched hundreds of hours of TH-cam farming and homesteading videos. I left the City of Chicago six months ago and bought 46 acre property in Missouri that I am currently building fencing, water etc on so as to homestead and have a small farm operation. I am appreciative of the nuances Joel spoke to in this video. There seems to be no one right way to farm a piece of land but rather an amalgamation of right opportunities to take along the way. I greatly appreciate the careful thoughtfulness of Joel's response as there needs to be a consideration of middle ground to make farming both profitable and responsible. Well done to all on this produciton.
Thank you, Chad! And welcome to homesteading/farming!
Hi, Chad. How is the homestead going? We are currently in Iowa but are considering moving further South into MO and buy a small acreage. Have you found certain areas in MO that have communities of homesteaders? I hope you have flourished and have been blessed beyond measure in your adventure.
@@midwestribeye7820 We looked all across MO for about a year and settled N of KC. There are not a lot of homesteaders here but there are a lot of farms and hobby farms. We found the greatest number of homesteaders in southern MO. Our issue with southern MO was soil quality. It is rocky and typically poor but also less expensive. We are super happy N of KC with our property and community. The other strong consideration for us was near and around Columbia/Jefferson City.
Love the combination of historical and practical information. 10 years ago I abandoned city life (San Fracisco, CA Bay area) and bought 6 acres of forest land in North Carolina and built my own little homestead. Joel has been one of the folks I've enjoyed watching.
Omg thats what Im doing now. Leaving Calif for NC. Been planning for 5 yrs, just sold my beautiful home.
@@proudgrandma138 congrats. enjoy 🙂
My favorite quote comes at 41:12 “Perfection is not easy, and it doesn’t come cheap.”
Relating this to insurance (which I used to sell), there was a famous quote that is germane, paraphrasing here, “People demand the unalienable right to sue for whatever misfortune befalls them, yet expect their insurance to be priced like they’ll never be sued.”
Joel is 100% right! Some cattle are bred for grain & some for grass & you cant change them.
I enjoyed listening to this very much. We are a small independent family poultry farm. I so agree with the perspective that perfection is not easy & doesn't come cheap. There are so many details to consider & coordinate with farming, & there's also the reality of resources & capacity for the farmer to integrate into the decisions. We plan our work, & work our plan, & we do the best we can with what we have; & we're willing to study & learn, & we adjust as needed & to the extent we can afford. Thanks for sharing a great interview. Informative & interesting & intelligent. 😊
Answered so many of my questions thank you so much
27:48 exactly Sina!!! Exactly!! Too dog on long on grain in feed lots which - we are what we eat so we are eating depressed anxious malnourished beef for example… don’t start me on production chicken houses. I have helped too much with them and I understand how they work to a T and I want nothing to do with them. I have 3 chicken tractors, 1 full of Cornish cross, the other 2 full of egg layers and a coop full of egg layers. The yard looks great!!!! I also have 4 pigs- 1 feeder 1 guilt 1 sow and a shoat (young boar). They are in a pen with deep bedding like Joel explained about his buddy. They eat kitchen scraps and grain here and there. My beets did not take this year..so no root crops for them year. Maybe this fall I can get a good crop of beets.
There is certainly a difference in beef quality on different pasture types and even seasonal differences. When I was finishing African Sanga cattle breeds on veld, there was always a difference between summer (mostly green grass and brows) and winter (standing hay and high protein seed pods) compared to neighbours with kikuyu/white clover or star grass irrigated pastures. I had also planted Carob trees with the intention of using the high energy pods for pig rations, but had to leave the farm before these matured.
Thank you for helping me better understand the various interactions between animal types and associated nutritional requirements.
My Grandparents were born before 1890 so they grew up with parents who still farmed on the ways that worked for their grandparents who came to North America in the 1840s and settled in the Midwest. The Rule for raising livestock was "so many acres per animal" be it cattle, horses, pigs or chickens, plus acres for hay for winter feed. You could raise many chickens on 1 acre (over 50 layers and 50 meat) without needing winter feed but a little "chop", a mixture of grains ground up, would suffice in the winter. Pigs uprooted the ground so they were best penned and fed slop (kitchen scraps and dishwater) and some 'chop'. Cattle needed 2-3 acres per animal during spring, summer and fall plus hay (dried and baled pasture grasses) in the winter. , I don't recall how many acres in pasture grasses for baling winter feed needed to feed 1 cow. Lastly, horses needed more acres per animal to keep it in enough grass to last through the spring, summer and fall plus hay in winter feed. The last part of this Rule was you didn't have more animals than the number of acres you owned to adequately feed them or else your animals would starve to death, usually in the winter. 10 acres was not enough for a human family of 4 to raise enough animals to feed both them and the animals needed to survive. Then prices of meat to sell and grain to sell for additional income to fix farm equipment plus taxes and many more expenses became impossible to sustain a family of 4 on 120 acres somewhere in the mid 30s and 40s. If you could buy more land you needed more hands to the extra work required to produce enough to live on. Gov Laws restricted the number of houses that could be built per farm - 1 was the restriction, unless you paid quite a lot of money to subdivide your farm then you were back to square one with the number of acres per family of 4. It was cheaper for the kids to move to town and get a job, helping out at the farm when they could. And so the Snowball grew.
Thats right. Homesteaders today are retired with income or hav some other form of income bc you still need money to live.
Excellent interview and well done questions
Thank you.
Loved the historical background! Never thought about it... I should have!
Also, i couldt stop listening. I just wanted to take a quick glance at this video but i didn't even noticed time flowing till the end!
Beef finished a couple weeks with supplemental grain sure do taste good!
Im doing it with mine, non GMO of course.
Where can we learn more about Dr. Sina's grain feed program?
they never once talked about crude protein in grain, which is the most important point of it
Great video !
Curious to know, about using aquponically grown vegetables and greens to suppliment pig & chicken feed. ?
I would say in WY, my hogs & Hesey cattle absolutely love all the perinal grass seeds, nut perinails as do the Elk, Deer, Antelope.
Have you tried casava roots for the starch, energy in the chicken, pigs feed?
It's cheap in Brazil but poor in carotene, protein, etc
There are a lot of studies over here exchanging corn for it, even 100%
Great information!!!
Glad it was helpful!
Pure seeds-indigenous people have the seeds. Maybe others, from the old days. Thanks
Random bit of info, but I just recently saw a video on here (yt) that showed the Chesnut tree is making a return in Virginia or Goergia, can't recall which. But fantastic news many old species of plant and animal that have long been extinct are starting to pop back up.
Why did it become extinct?
@@proudgrandma138 To my knowledge, it was commercially sought to the point of no wild trees being left in the state. Very fine wood for building with. I'm not sure if it was a case of a few unknown wilds trees making the come back, or if they were cultivated elsewere, and reintroduced.
Be interesting to hear a discussion about more expensive but also more nutrient dense foods being consumed and offset the addition expense of that food by less health problems and perhaps cutting out some “throwaway” consumerism spending…..pretty sure could have a podcast channel only discussing that topic but Joel’s opinions on that would be interesting. If he could farm in his perfect world and all peoples were in that market, not just a niche but that was the mainstream market, what are his thoughts on that?
Not enuf people could afford to buy that expensive meat
Thanks for sharing.
I have a question for Joel.
How do you feel about planting annual forage crops in with perennial grasses in a pig paddock system to offset feed costs. crops such as sorghums, beans, turnips, beets and etc.
Using a no till seed drill to inter-plant.
Thanks
Hi! Great question! I've added it to the list of question that Joel will answer during our upcoming "mail bag" episode.
Also try the Spanish chestnut tree.
This is a good one.
Have you had success planting forage crops for pigs? I’m trying this myself with the goal of using mostly forage for feeding.
Was this question ever answered? If so, is there a link? Ty!
What about “sprouted” grain. Aka “fodder”. And what about “fermented” grain. Is it still a “grain” as in does it affect omega 6/3 the same as un fermented grain? The questions i stump google with😉
Good question. I soak and ferment grains for my pigs to help digestion.
Exactly! Isnt it ok as long as its not GMO?
Interesting video
Hy all, thank you for this video.
Joel, can you please detail on what you mean when you say non-GMO grain you feed your chickens?
Does this include no chemical fertilizer, no pesticide, no herbicide, etc?
Or is it just that the crop sees for the corn is non-GMO?
Yes, organic & GMO is different. GMO is the plant- its a laboratory created organism & organic would be what you add to it (fertilizers, soil additives, bug killers, weed killers, etc).
Funny to watch turkeys strip seed heads off as well. Like doing it with your fingers. Supplement their feed well.
It is very interesting to watch them figure that out. Chickens, pigs, sheep and cattle do it too.
Grains are seeds, it’s just that we call it grain because the plant like wheat and barley are grown for the seed which planted can regrow but we call it grain because that is the only part of the plant that is used
Direct from the horses mouth ❤! Great video and thanks!🙏
Grass fed animals can produce tough meat besides undersized animals but for some people it's a must but really any nutritionist with a good background can tell you the same info
A grass fed beef can literally NOT put on fat till it is mature enough to do so. Usually after 2 years…..
@@terrydoble1468 interesting, thank you!
Ive seen them put on weight if theyve been on Healthy fields. Theres a lot of fields in use that are sub par. Theres also different breeds of cattle. And, Some can only eat grain & you cannot convert to grass without killing then, same for grass cattle.
Now I understand why the Italians are so hyped on wild boar.
Hi from an englishman in France. Joël spoke of mangols, i worked at a farm museum in England when i was young, WE grew these, hé sais that it would provide 70% nutrition, i'm interested in thé three Pen système of raising pigs on Root veg, have you tried this method?
How did you keep them good all year round?
We have an American Chestnut at our farm.
There still are pockets around. But they aren’t making up 30+% of the forest like they did back in pioneer days.
I want it
I have one in my farm. Saved it from a strong storm.
I would like to find out how would you charge a gallon of milk a dozen of eggs and other products that you have I am a new farmer and I'm more like to know how would I charge my items is it based on pound or is it something else
Its based on the market
1:50 he mentions every ruminant, but the water buffaloes. Even though more people depend on them for their livelihood or extra income than any other ruminant and they can thrive on rough quality tropical lowland and swampy pastures with zero grain where cattle, sheep and goats struggle. They gain weight faster than cows and their milk and meat is much healthier and tastier than cattle.
Cows were made. Oxen & Buffalo were too smart & too big to control. So they made the cow- docile & dumb.
For those that don't know, those $100 and $50/lb prices are greatly exaggerated wrt to the actual cost of raising the animal.
What about alfalfa?
Awesome talk. Is it possible that animals can adapt to their environment / diet ? So are you saying bc it's deemed harmful to a steer to eat grain that it's inhumane? I feed my steers grain from weaning to slaughter. The percentage is small on a daily basis. I'd say less than 5% of their daily intake.
As far as I can understand - grain in larger amounts needs an acidic stomach in order to digest properly. Grass needs to ferment at a high PH. I don't think 5% would create that kind of situation but I'm not an expert on the matter.
Some are bred for grass & some are bred for grain. Many will die if you take them off of what they were bred to eat & force them to eat what they were not bred to eat.
@@proudgrandma138 No ruminate is designed to subsist on grain. Some have been bred to tolerate it and gain weight from the additional carbs. They can all live without grain but they cannot live without roughage regardless of the breed.
Pigs like acorns too.
The supplemented vs non-supplemented bird would be an easy thing for Joel to check. But not chickens, use turkeys. He can send off one of his turkeys raised and compare it to a hunted turkey. The hunted turkeys may have stopped by a feeding station from some hunter but you could try to control for that by not feeding them a season. Kill a wild turkey and send it off.
🥩You willing to pay for the testing $ Imagine Joel would love to have
the results 🥚
🥩Lectin transfer & chemical toxins our
main concern 🌾
🕊
I want to know about the guy in KY raising grain free hogs! #goals
👍👍
Not sure of the food value of non-grass fed dairy.
Have you guys seen Takota Coen in Canada video on raising pork with red meat ? Also there are the strong sistas youtube that have special diet for chickens to have less polyunsaturated fat in the eggs? I think catered diets for animals products to have certain qualities is a good topic
How does the 5000 acres of corn and soybeans work with no tillage and a cover crop? Who is doing this? Sounds like intercropping alfalfa or something. What are the yields like?
Might want to search Gabe Brown right here on youtube.
Giant ragweed is an annual. The ancient civilizations ground their seeds as a high protein grain. Our cows love to eat off the leaves & will eat the tops off of stalks that they push over. Grain free😂
What IF: More Farmers put 5 - 10 Acers into grain! Instead of having to rely on these BIG Grain operators,
We meet the grain needs of a bunch of people and cause the "Big Operators" concious of their pricing!
Interesting idea. Thanks for the comment!
How would you harvest it? The big farmers (cheap?) high volume methods wouldn't work on a whole bunch of tiny fields.
Farmer would have to buy that grain equipment but 5 acres won't offset his expenses in money, time, hard costs etc. He'll only make the "corporate" farmers look even better cuz he'll have mighty expensive grain. So what do I think? BAD idea. It plays right into the hands of the big boys.
@@finallyfriday. I agree with your point - BUT:
I would not buy a $40,000 machine to plant "5" acers.
AND I am asking the other 50 Farmers to plant only 5 acers too!
IF We don't need their grain as we grow our herds, their choice is a lot less that the demand they have now.
@@hewittg.malone5973 I'm a little uncertain of your point. I will say small farmers barely dent what grain producers sell. You can't imagine how much grain big feedlots buy. 99+% of the buying power is what controls the market, not tiny purchases of hobby farmers. That's just how it is.
It is crazy that they don't talk about organic grain vr conventional...I can see how Joe avoids the subject...he is a human...
He did say the local grain was non GMO
Yah theres nothing wrong with non GMO
Who is the guy in Indiana raising 5,000 acres of corn and soybeans with no tillage, chemicals, or fertilizer?
Jason Mauck
I believe he is using pig manure on some of it. Or did. He has certified organic land and is transitioning the rest into organic so the manure might be going away.
@@samuelahrens1936 Thanks.
Cereal grains, oats wheat barley corn et al.
Grain fed animals aren't the problem, it's Grain fed people.
Peter Ballerstadt
This guy really needs to learn to get TO THE POINT. IT'S BAaaaaaaaaad.
U can't get perfection
Jack Hammer feeds his chickens on compost, no?
On bugs.
Compost has bugs
At 13:57 Joel says ....... the dairy farmer dont want his pastures torn up by the pigs. They do still sell hog rings at farm stores ! Ring the hogs ! Ive seen Joels videos........with hogs out on pasture. None had rings. Interesting humans ring themselves.........but we dare not ring hogs !!!!!! ???????????
Pigs naturally root. There's a reason for that. Healthy pigs root. Why mess with that?
@@Jake-ji1or No issues from me !!!!!! Let them have at it ! Just dont complain about it .......as Joel is here ( relating to the dairy farmer ) ... ( 13:57 ) Pigs will naturally kill a child also if in a pig pen....because the are hungry....... Why mess with that ?
@@jerrylansbury9558 Complaining? He's stating the fact that a dairy farmer can't have pigs messing with his main or only source of income. If you're going to stop a pig from rooting, go ahead and compete with Smithfield. That's not what any of us are trying to do if we're here listening to JS.
@@Jake-ji1or So if a hog goes out in the pasture and roots up / destroys its pastures that hog is not messing with its own source of income ? Whats a hog to eat after destroying its own food source ???? Joel comments at ( 15:44 ) that packaging / spoons / forks become a real problem ???? Ive feed table scraps to my hogs for years. Its common practice to remove your forks / knives / spoon and wrappers from the scraps first !!! Ive been a dairy farmer and hog farmer now for 45 years. I do know that controlling / managing a pasture is the most important objective to an " income ". Nothing was ever stated about Springfield and competing....... for that matter any type of competing ! Besides that...I dont think Joel understand USDA's requirements regarding milk cows and inspections. No other animals can be among the diary cows be they chickens hogs etc. The only exceptions are " barn swallows " dogs and cats. Regenerative Ag is just blown our of proportion. Its farming......just alternate methods. Ive grazed cows now for 35 yrs. Its farming !
@@Jake-ji1or Great..... run pigs in the woods..... I assume the "woods " have no value.....because the hogs will destroy the " woods " in short order. You have not seen pigs with rings in their noses because its obvious....they will destroy everything is sight ! Thats why most farmers keep hogs in hog lots or hog floors. Sure..... If I wanted my timber / woods turned into a tree free area..thats how its done.....turn hogs out ! I know...my father did that same thing. 10 years......no trees. Im all for that too ! No arguments here !
Spit it out, Joel. Im out at 6 mins ... 💤 💤 😴
And the American chestnut is available in nurseries.
At least you've got your phone to fill in the time. No waiting necessary.
There are too lots of large Spanish chestnut trees in America, with edible chestnuts.
Are they blight resistant?
Most “American” chestnut trees are really Americanized Chinese chestnut trees that have been back crossed more times to an American parent but still need to have the Chinese blight resistance blood lines. Otherwise you might as well take that nursery tree and toss it in the woodchipper.
Obviously the people who frequent fast-food places, buy general grocery store items both protein and grocery could care less about the quality of their food. They are like a dog who doesnt eat for taste they eat to get full. They are addicte to salt, sugar and chemical tastes. This is the majority of humans but for people who care about what they eat, food like Polyface farms produces is important. Sure, it costs more but you get more nutrition for the buck. I have watched people fill their shopping carts with cheap white flour products like kids cereals, crap bread, tons andd tons of death food. If people learn to eat less than they can enjoy these types of high quality foods. Unfortunately most people dont care how it tastes or if its good for them, just give me a lot of it. I am not sure this gal realizes cattle/cows are not suppose to eat corn, it kills them, eventually and sooner without drugs.
Hello! Thank you for your comment. I do realize cows are not supposed to eat corn. I wrote about that extensively in Beyond Labels, the book I co-authored with Joel. But this episode was not about my opinion. This episode was based on questions that a listener sent specifically for Joel to answer. So, my job in this episode was to ask the listeners questions and get out of the way so that Joel could answer. I will be providing my opinion on grains in an upcoming episode regarding both animal and human nutrition. I agree with you that many people do not make that connection. That's why one of our goals in making these episodes is to help educate, empower and encourage - one episode at a time. : )
@@beyondlabelspod Then I should have studied more before I opened my big-mouth. I will purchase that book and read it. Thank you for educating me. Have a nice day.
What is the definition of the word "presumptive"?
Its not about OPINION, its about FACTS. Its FACT that cattle get sick on grain & hav to be given antibiotics. Cattle like sweets, they are not so different from people in that respect. It was in the news that One dairy farmer bot all the candy from a bankrupt candy store & fed it to his cattle. He said "They loved it." 🤦♀️
@proudgrandma138 Your so right .........Take Greg Judy ( Mr. Glyphosate ) He needs as what he calls it.......many streams of income to make it farming ???? Hello.....stick with farming...... stay home do the work......not run around the country preaching ! Post videos criticizing his next door neighbors for using chemicals. Imagine if your his next door neighbor.... ? Is that nasty or what ????? Those same farmers have no say ! If they produce 200 bushels per acre for corn.... is that going broke ???? Everything about Mr. Glyphosate is about going broke ! Serious ? Why are they still farming if thats the case ???????
👍#🇵🇰
Feeding pigs wrappers ?Please..... you cant remove forks ..knives......wrappers from table garbage ???? How lazy are people ?
When I was a child ( age 15 1972 )I raised 50 pigs on " slop " and table scraps. The hogs done great ! They were always relaxed .....after eating because of course theres alcohol in the " slop " However.... crack the door on the hog shed.....and they come storming out ! Addicted to the alcohol !!!
These two are so out of touch with reality ! HELP !!!
what did you do with all those pigs?
@@farnorthhomested844 Was only 50 of them.......sold them for a handsome profit....... nice way to start out at age 15 / 16
@@jerrylansbury9558 it sure is. 50 sure seems like a lot. did you butcher them or sell them alive? pigs seems to be what people want lately due to rising costs and a better grade with home raised. thanks for the reply.
@@farnorthhomested844 That was 50 years ago......but I sold them for market.
No, pigs got popular bc of all the cooking shows (marketing). All the kids want to be Chefs now, they feel even a line cook has clout. 🤦♀️ all bc of Cable - Iron Chef etc, Gordon Ramsey, Diners Drive In & Dives dude, BBQ becomming popular again & million other reason- mass marketing. I used to buy canned Coconut milk at the dollar store for $1 until asian cuisine got popular on YT. Now its $4. Happening with lots of stuff.
Poor Joel........spitting and sputtering around....Tries not to step on toes ! She said up front she feeds no grain. But Joel would not tell her shes a liar.....because her animals are eating grain. Its called grass seeds ! Along with many other seeds. Greg Judy also tries to tell people his cows eat no grain. These people are a total joke !!!!!
So sad....this guy has no idea what hes talking about ! He dont ever realize the difference of the efficiency of the animals !
Also....its interesting how people always say its " American dish " Hello !!!!! Most people grew up in this country on meat and potatoes ! I was 10 yrs old...... had potatoes 3 meals per day. Now days... people need onions garlic and what ever else to call it " American dish " Like saying " French fries " are French ?????? Please.....they are common potatoes !
You didn't check his back story, did you? Opps!
@@leeredinger2981 I watched the entire video......and many others too. Point being.....he dont even follow basic logic. Or common sense !
Hmm. Okay. Can you explain? Show where Joel goes off-track with his logic? Please don't leave us slow learners in the dark by keeping your wisdom to yourself! That wouldn't be right.
@@leeredinger2981 He lost it from the beginning...... once he started talking about grass seeds.............after 4:30 trying to explain the differences ????? Huh ? Grass seeds are also annuals. After that.........its all down hill !
Thats like people whom call themselves vegans. As a Peace Corps volunteer to Liberia Africa......In Liberia there were almost no veggies. In my group of 60 volunteers..... 20 were so called vegan. In 4 months most went back home to the USA. They almost starved to death.
Joel states if you dont mow your lawn the grass wont go to seed. (25:26 ) Thats totally wrong. Grass will seed out even if its one inch tall. Any plant unless terminated it will produce seed..........viable....... thats another question.
Joel is " planting " so many false hoods here !
Lots of good points........but beware..... if your a true farmer you do know the difference.
Joel claims hes a " farmer" then also states hes a regenerative farmer ? A farmer is a farmer !
What I got from your comment is you want to trash folks. Didn't see any points I should be concerned about. Less ranting and insulting and more sharing of knowledge, please.