Well, here I am amending something.. around the 20 minute mark I said Tom Kane did the opening narrations for Buzz Lightyear of Star Command, turns out that wasn’t him, even though he ironically does have a voice credit in that show. Regardless he was all over the shows I was watching as a kid, so it still colored my experience of clone wars and Michael’s comments about Lucas’s choice to use more “child tailored” creative choice still stands.
Yourself and Michael have a really easy rapport which helps ease along this 'problematic' series of movies. I've really enjoyed listening to the critical and intelligent take you both have on them. Great stuff gents
That’s a very kind assessment. Thanks for listening to this series, I hope Michael and I have more chances to collaborate or just talk on stream in the future. Thanks for being here!
Sidious wasn't a changeling, but if I understand correctly, the Darkside lightning was affecting the the "mask", or filter he was using. The Darkside consumes physical bodies that use the Darkside of the Force, but when struck by the Darkside lightning, it caused more damage/decay than he would have already experienced had he not been struck. He used the Force to mask his Darkside appearance for the purpose of political gain. He needed to have the appearance of a trusted grandpa figure. I hope that was worded clearly. Sorry if it wasn't. :) haha Peter Mayhew was not in the Force Awakens, but was replaced by a younger guy, but Peter Mayhew was on set as a consultant for his replacement. You can tell something's off, because that REALLY doesn't look like Chewbacca. :) It's all in the eyes and body language. Thanks for the video, I really enjoyed the commentary by you both. The prequels really do breakdown with just one or two seconds of thought. :)
Yeah that force lighting thing affecting sith users is…. Interesting. Good to know about Peter Mayhew, I guess I never looked at the credits on TFA to confirm, but did know for sure he wasn’t in TLJ onwards. Thanks for the kind words and for watching!
I agree with the 2D Clone Wars series. That is SO much better than the 3D version. The 3D has some good things but overall, it feels like one big retcon of the prequel films. Like, "Awe man! We should have shown you THIS stuff instead".
@@Chronically0nline You guys are saying everything I have been saying. Ep. 1 was a waste with a young Anakin. He should have already been older. I like your idea of him as an orphan but He should have already been a Jedi. We needed to see him as a great pilot, a hero and a FRIEND. All that Ben tells Luke. He also should have been likeable so that his fall could have felt tragic. We want to root for Anakin but when he makes the choices that lead him to the darkside, it should be painful to watch.
exactly!!!! its soooo stupid... ALL he had to do to save padme, the jedi & even the republic was NOTHING. Everything about that scene is aggravating it just ruins the legacy of both characters by making them look like total idiots!
When I was a kid my sis told me about an article she read where Lucas said Ben and Owen were brothers and when Ben felt Luke was old enough he arrived to begin training him and Owen ran him off. So Ben decided to hang out in the periphery and keep an eye on Luke from afar. I tend apply that version to the fan film Jamie Costa was in where he plays Obi Wan because it seems to fit. Especially near the end when Ben comes to the rescue and Owen and Beru get to see him in action as a Jedi. It seems to have more of an emotional impact if you see it as Ben protecting his brother as well as Luke, even though they became estranged.
Wow! This was very good. I just found your channel from Michael sharing it on his Facebook. I clicked on this video not realizing that your had already done the other two films. So watching this one first was probably like me as kid watching Return of the Jedi first and then Empire and then Star Wars. 😁
Good commentary! I always strongly felt that the biggest problem with the prequel trilogy was that nobody was willing to tell George Lucas when an idea was bad. Instead he hired a bunch of yes men who wanted to ride the money train.
Great commentary man. It’s funny, I recently read the Thrawn trilogy. Absolutely adored it , but Mara Jade - didn’t land for me at all. Felt overly whiney and edgy. I honestly think if those books came out today she would be largely disliked due to the climate we live in. Just thought it was interesting considering how loved she is. I will say, the Inquisitors weren’t entirely made up by Disney. Early Rebels development was done by Filoni and Simon Kinberg under Lucas’s supervision. Which makes them legitimate to me but may not to you 😅
I can see that perspective. I would say that 9/10 Star Wars books just flat out suck. There's cool moments for sure, but as an overall experience, very few made me binge read them. They're a little more palpable in audiobook format tho. As far as Filoni goes, he does his job in terms of expanding on the prequel stories, but as I mentioned, I feel like the more you do that, the harder and harder it is to excuse things. I know his philosophy for a long time has been "not every story needs to have actually happened" but with Disney setting the bar on whats "canon" and what isn't, thats where we really start to lose the plot.
@@Chronically0nline I 100% agree on SW books. As a kid, in say 08 the EU was at its height, but it always felt weird to me - overly dark and often try hard edgy. Like, Tales from Jabbas Palace has some great stories, but then there’s Leia being offered to Boba for sex. It never felt legitimate to me, so as a kid I was never surprised when Lucas frequently ignored it in TCW. There is a lot of genuine gold out there in those books too. Like recently I picked up a battlefront tie in novel from 2015 called Twilight Company - not something I’ve really ever heard much about and it’s fucking fantastic! So it’s real hit or miss. Those modern padme books I was hyped for and they are traaaaaaaaash And I hear you on Filoni. For me he is the one fucker who actually gets it, understanding the vision of Lucas that worked and simultaneously understanding what about Lucas didn’t. His stuff is the only modern stuff I engage with
This movie struggled with continuity. Somehow Yoda went from a grand master fighter who is oddly best friends with chewbacca, to the puppet we see on Dagobah who doesn’t seem to have ever been either of those things, considering it would have been directly said. No reason Padmé couldn’t have died later on like a time jump so Leia could actually say she remembers her face. The Yoda pod does exist, it’s in some theaters and not others, but is a deleted scene according to most instances and DVDs. But it exists.
I doubt I’ll forget Santa Sio Bibble.😂😂 It’s nice to hear others echo my thoughts since seeing it on release that ROTS is the worst of the prequels by a great margin. The tone and energy is so painfully flat that it is difficult to find reasons to care…this is made all the more difficult by there being zero surprises except “get it over with and make it sorta fit the timeline”. Even the sound mix which was a saving grace of the previous two films doesn’t have the same engagement factor. I do have to disagree on the novelization however. I thought it was the best of the prequel novelizations for the internal dialogue of characters. It’s been a while since I read it but I remember it being much better than the other two. As usual anything I do like is just me reading EU materials and my mind filling in gaps with EU knowledge on rewatches.
I would really encourage you to revisit the book! I enjoyed it as a *kid* as there ARE cool extra bits in there. Like Sidious’ lightsaber actually being kept in the statue outside of his office in the hallway, and having time to actually expand upon the down time, but it’s a slog in terms of it being engaging and exciting. That’s just how I felt when I listened to the audio book again earlier this year. I’d love to know what you thought. I’m glad you got to listen to all of these man! Now on to the next chapter.. ;)
@@Chronically0nline i’ve been wanting to do a EU reread project for a number of years so I should finally get around to that. Stover has a particular style that doesn’t gel with everyone which is why Shatterpoint as good as it is doesn’t always flow well for every reader. Next chapter indeed!😁
I heard Lucas took the fan reaction to phantom menace (and the prequel trilogy in general) really hard and was really upset about the red letter media stuff and the people vs George Lucas …..I doubt he probably ever watched any of it but he knew of its existence and what the general gist of it was
@ never said they didn’t and I’m one of them he made very odd choices with the prequels but I respect the fact that it is his story to tell for better or worse 🤷🏻 sorry but we didn’t crate Star Wars and we don’t own it…..no one hates Star Wars more then Star Wars fans and we ruined it just as much and are just as much to blame as George Lucas , Disney , Kathleen Kennedy and mr plinket and whoever else……some one make that video
"No one hates star wars more than star wars fans" George, I don't think you took anything away from these commentaries, but you've commented on 3. There are 2 objectively SOLID Star Wars movies. Why? Cause Lucas had someone reigning in his insane ideas on SW and Empire. Just cause we don't "own" Star Wars, does not mean we can't study it, or point out flaws. Saying Disney's destruction is on the same level as Jedi, or the prequels is disingenuous, and I think you're being overly diplomatic with the sympathetic revisionist history.
@ Lucas made these movies because he lost half his fortune in a divorce and basically knew this was the way out of financial ruin …..but I’m not a negative creep that gets off on endlessly bitching and complaining about this stuff like it’s going to change the way things played out ….or for clicks n views ….i found your take to be intriguing at times and Michael a long winded , pompous, arrogant ass like always ….i know 🙄you all know Star Wars better then the man that invented it let him take some master lessons 😆….we all have our opinions but that’s all they are
@@Chronically0nline unfortunately for me this was more of you interviewing Michael about his opinions on the prequels and him doing most of the talking (bitching and complaining and self aggrandizing) then a actual commentary……and yes I stuck it out and painfully watched all three 🤷🏻
I’m not the biggest Star Trek fan, and I think the OT has been talked to death. I’m really glad you enjoyed them tho, and hopefully we can do something similar in the future!
Do you think it would've helped the movies if Vader appeared earlier? maybe the 2nd movie or even half way through the 3rd, and Ben and Vader fight instead of Ben and Anakin? Have Vader kill Maul and take over like you two talked about? instead of making a big appearance at the end and doing absolutely nothing.
Yeah Anakin should have already been well on the way to his fall by the end of the second movie. Darth Vader in the suit should have happened a lot earlier. With Obiwan trying to bring him back, and definitely a 4 way battle between Obiwan, sidious, yoda and Vader.
I really didn’t care for that movie in the theater. I rewatched it a few years later and liked it a lot more. It’s one of those puzzle piece movies that works a lot better once the later movies show the pay off.
ROTS is the WORST SW MOVIE. I'LL never forget opening night: before title even came up my gut dropped and I had a terrible feeling... what followed was a sick joke. My friend and I couldn't believe it. We just kept laughing. Everything was AWFUL. When Anakin became Vader cuz he "HAD A BAD DREAM" it was insulting!!!! ruined SW for us! not even the intervention of Coppola, Spielberg & even Carrie Fisher ETC. could save this cinematic failure. We hated TLJ... but ROTS is just pure messy ineptitude masquerading as a toy commercial!!!
and yet its still lauded by a huge chunk of the fandom who feel its the "best" of the series which is totally insane... but then again MANY SW fans have TERRIBLE taste in movies/entertainment: SO nothing about ROTS could be a let down, unlike myself and others whom actually enjoy and own many, many classic FILMS
Well, here I am amending something.. around the 20 minute mark I said Tom Kane did the opening narrations for Buzz Lightyear of Star Command, turns out that wasn’t him, even though he ironically does have a voice credit in that show. Regardless he was all over the shows I was watching as a kid, so it still colored my experience of clone wars and Michael’s comments about Lucas’s choice to use more “child tailored” creative choice still stands.
So glad I found this! Trying to catch up on things. Awesome stuff I subbed.
Honored to have you here, sir!
Yourself and Michael have a really easy rapport which helps ease along this 'problematic' series of movies. I've really enjoyed listening to the critical and intelligent take you both have on them. Great stuff gents
That’s a very kind assessment. Thanks for listening to this series, I hope Michael and I have more chances to collaborate or just talk on stream in the future. Thanks for being here!
Sidious wasn't a changeling, but if I understand correctly, the Darkside lightning was affecting the the "mask", or filter he was using.
The Darkside consumes physical bodies that use the Darkside of the Force, but when struck by the Darkside lightning, it caused more damage/decay than he would have already experienced had he not been struck.
He used the Force to mask his Darkside appearance for the purpose of political gain.
He needed to have the appearance of a trusted grandpa figure.
I hope that was worded clearly.
Sorry if it wasn't. :) haha
Peter Mayhew was not in the Force Awakens, but was replaced by a younger guy, but Peter Mayhew was on set as a consultant for his replacement.
You can tell something's off, because that REALLY doesn't look like Chewbacca. :)
It's all in the eyes and body language.
Thanks for the video, I really enjoyed the commentary by you both.
The prequels really do breakdown with just one or two seconds of thought. :)
Yeah that force lighting thing affecting sith users is…. Interesting. Good to know about Peter Mayhew, I guess I never looked at the credits on TFA to confirm, but did know for sure he wasn’t in TLJ onwards.
Thanks for the kind words and for watching!
you do everything on this channel!
I try to have something for everyone!
I agree with the 2D Clone Wars series. That is SO much better than the 3D version. The 3D has some good things but overall, it feels like one big retcon of the prequel films. Like, "Awe man! We should have shown you THIS stuff instead".
Yeah, the continual "we can't make up our mind" is real annoying. Like Michael said about some of the Prequel decisions- own the choice.
@@Chronically0nline You guys are saying everything I have been saying. Ep. 1 was a waste with a young Anakin. He should have already been older. I like your idea of him as an orphan but He should have already been a Jedi. We needed to see him as a great pilot, a hero and a FRIEND. All that Ben tells Luke. He also should have been likeable so that his fall could have felt tragic. We want to root for Anakin but when he makes the choices that lead him to the darkside, it should be painful to watch.
in a way, Anakin turning to the dark side IS painful to watch, but in a different way lol!
@@Chronically0nline It was like, "Really? Just like that?" and I also like how Sidious kind of thinks for a second and then just settles on "Vader!".
exactly!!!! its soooo stupid... ALL he had to do to save padme, the jedi & even the republic was NOTHING. Everything about that scene is aggravating it just ruins the legacy of both characters by making them look like total idiots!
When I was a kid my sis told me about an article she read where Lucas said Ben and Owen were brothers and when Ben felt Luke was old enough he arrived to begin training him and Owen ran him off. So Ben decided to hang out in the periphery and keep an eye on Luke from afar.
I tend apply that version to the fan film Jamie Costa was in where he plays Obi Wan because it seems to fit. Especially near the end when Ben comes to the rescue and Owen and Beru get to see him in action as a Jedi. It seems to have more of an emotional impact if you see it as Ben protecting his brother as well as Luke, even though they became estranged.
Wow! This was very good. I just found your channel from Michael sharing it on his Facebook. I clicked on this video not realizing that your had already done the other two films. So watching this one first was probably like me as kid watching Return of the Jedi first and then Empire and then Star Wars. 😁
Good commentary! I always strongly felt that the biggest problem with the prequel trilogy was that nobody was willing to tell George Lucas when an idea was bad. Instead he hired a bunch of yes men who wanted to ride the money train.
Correct indeed!
Great commentary man. It’s funny, I recently read the Thrawn trilogy. Absolutely adored it , but Mara Jade - didn’t land for me at all. Felt overly whiney and edgy. I honestly think if those books came out today she would be largely disliked due to the climate we live in. Just thought it was interesting considering how loved she is.
I will say, the Inquisitors weren’t entirely made up by Disney. Early Rebels development was done by Filoni and Simon Kinberg under Lucas’s supervision. Which makes them legitimate to me but may not to you 😅
I can see that perspective. I would say that 9/10 Star Wars books just flat out suck. There's cool moments for sure, but as an overall experience, very few made me binge read them. They're a little more palpable in audiobook format tho.
As far as Filoni goes, he does his job in terms of expanding on the prequel stories, but as I mentioned, I feel like the more you do that, the harder and harder it is to excuse things. I know his philosophy for a long time has been "not every story needs to have actually happened" but with Disney setting the bar on whats "canon" and what isn't, thats where we really start to lose the plot.
@@Chronically0nline I 100% agree on SW books. As a kid, in say 08 the EU was at its height, but it always felt weird to me - overly dark and often try hard edgy. Like, Tales from Jabbas Palace has some great stories, but then there’s Leia being offered to Boba for sex. It never felt legitimate to me, so as a kid I was never surprised when Lucas frequently ignored it in TCW.
There is a lot of genuine gold out there in those books too. Like recently I picked up a battlefront tie in novel from 2015 called Twilight Company - not something I’ve really ever heard much about and it’s fucking fantastic! So it’s real hit or miss. Those modern padme books I was hyped for and they are traaaaaaaaash
And I hear you on Filoni. For me he is the one fucker who actually gets it, understanding the vision of Lucas that worked and simultaneously understanding what about Lucas didn’t. His stuff is the only modern stuff I engage with
This movie struggled with continuity. Somehow Yoda went from a grand master fighter who is oddly best friends with chewbacca, to the puppet we see on Dagobah who doesn’t seem to have ever been either of those things, considering it would have been directly said. No reason Padmé couldn’t have died later on like a time jump so Leia could actually say she remembers her face. The Yoda pod does exist, it’s in some theaters and not others, but is a deleted scene according to most instances and DVDs. But it exists.
I doubt I’ll forget Santa Sio Bibble.😂😂
It’s nice to hear others echo my thoughts since seeing it on release that ROTS is the worst of the prequels by a great margin. The tone and energy is so painfully flat that it is difficult to find reasons to care…this is made all the more difficult by there being zero surprises except “get it over with and make it sorta fit the timeline”.
Even the sound mix which was a saving grace of the previous two films doesn’t have the same engagement factor.
I do have to disagree on the novelization however. I thought it was the best of the prequel novelizations for the internal dialogue of characters. It’s been a while since I read it but I remember it being much better than the other two.
As usual anything I do like is just me reading EU materials and my mind filling in gaps with EU knowledge on rewatches.
I would really encourage you to revisit the book! I enjoyed it as a *kid* as there ARE cool extra bits in there. Like Sidious’ lightsaber actually being kept in the statue outside of his office in the hallway, and having time to actually expand upon the down time, but it’s a slog in terms of it being engaging and exciting. That’s just how I felt when I listened to the audio book again earlier this year. I’d love to know what you thought. I’m glad you got to listen to all of these man! Now on to the next chapter.. ;)
@@Chronically0nline i’ve been wanting to do a EU reread project for a number of years so I should finally get around to that. Stover has a particular style that doesn’t gel with everyone which is why Shatterpoint as good as it is doesn’t always flow well for every reader.
Next chapter indeed!😁
I heard Lucas took the fan reaction to phantom menace (and the prequel trilogy in general) really hard and was really upset about the red letter media stuff and the people vs George Lucas …..I doubt he probably ever watched any of it but he knew of its existence and what the general gist of it was
@@George-de6hd and the fans had a lot of merit with their critique .
@ never said they didn’t and I’m one of them he made very odd choices with the prequels but I respect the fact that it is his story to tell for better or worse 🤷🏻 sorry but we didn’t crate Star Wars and we don’t own it…..no one hates Star Wars more then Star Wars fans and we ruined it just as much and are just as much to blame as George Lucas , Disney , Kathleen Kennedy and mr plinket and whoever else……some one make that video
"No one hates star wars more than star wars fans" George, I don't think you took anything away from these commentaries, but you've commented on 3. There are 2 objectively SOLID Star Wars movies. Why? Cause Lucas had someone reigning in his insane ideas on SW and Empire. Just cause we don't "own" Star Wars, does not mean we can't study it, or point out flaws. Saying Disney's destruction is on the same level as Jedi, or the prequels is disingenuous, and I think you're being overly diplomatic with the sympathetic revisionist history.
@ Lucas made these movies because he lost half his fortune in a divorce and basically knew this was the way out of financial ruin …..but I’m not a negative creep that gets off on endlessly bitching and complaining about this stuff like it’s going to change the way things played out ….or for clicks n views ….i found your take to be intriguing at times and Michael a long winded , pompous, arrogant ass like always ….i know 🙄you all know Star Wars better then the man that invented it let him take some master lessons 😆….we all have our opinions but that’s all they are
@@Chronically0nline unfortunately for me this was more of you interviewing Michael about his opinions on the prequels and him doing most of the talking (bitching and complaining and self aggrandizing) then a actual commentary……and yes I stuck it out and painfully watched all three 🤷🏻
Also that Yoda saber fight scene was embarrassing. It seemed like Frank Oz made Yoda sound constipated through the entire thing.
You two should do this for the original trilogy. or even the Star Trek Spock Trilogy, 2,3, and 4. skip 5 and do 6.
I’m not the biggest Star Trek fan, and I think the OT has been talked to death. I’m really glad you enjoyed them tho, and hopefully we can do something similar in the future!
@@Chronically0nline that would be great, the Matrix? just an idea.
The best clone wars 3D episodes were the ones that didn’t correlate well too much to the prequels
Do you think it would've helped the movies if Vader appeared earlier? maybe the 2nd movie or even half way through the 3rd, and Ben and Vader fight instead of Ben and Anakin? Have Vader kill Maul and take over like you two talked about? instead of making a big appearance at the end and doing absolutely nothing.
Yeah Anakin should have already been well on the way to his fall by the end of the second movie. Darth Vader in the suit should have happened a lot earlier. With Obiwan trying to bring him back, and definitely a 4 way battle between Obiwan, sidious, yoda and Vader.
@@Chronically0nline yeah Vader in most of the third is what should've happened for sure.
Yer, I like Age of Ultron a lot but it's definitely not the best.
I really didn’t care for that movie in the theater. I rewatched it a few years later and liked it a lot more. It’s one of those puzzle piece movies that works a lot better once the later movies show the pay off.
Yeb, lots of setup for later movies in the MCU@@Chronically0nline
ROTS is the WORST SW MOVIE. I'LL never forget opening night: before title even came up my gut dropped and I had a terrible feeling... what followed was a sick joke. My friend and I couldn't believe it. We just kept laughing. Everything was AWFUL. When Anakin became Vader cuz he "HAD A BAD DREAM" it was insulting!!!! ruined SW for us! not even the intervention of Coppola, Spielberg & even Carrie Fisher ETC. could save this cinematic failure. We hated TLJ... but ROTS is just pure messy ineptitude masquerading as a toy commercial!!!
Yeah this one just falls short at every point. I had more fun making up my own stories with the toys and Lego sets.
and yet its still lauded by a huge chunk of the fandom who feel its the "best" of the series which is totally insane... but then again MANY SW fans have TERRIBLE taste in movies/entertainment: SO nothing about ROTS could be a let down, unlike myself and others whom actually enjoy and own many, many classic FILMS
@@skinrustpro haha yeah, that’s absolutely true. Star Wars fans often have terrible tastes outside of these movies! I agree