On a slightly tangential note, but the perfect example card for abilities is Magda, Blazin' Outlaw. She has a static ability, a triggered ability, and an activated ability.
These kind of creatures are actually very common. Keywords hide rules text, which means a lot of creatures with keywords have static abilities. Flying, Trample, Haste etc. are all static abilities. Prowess is an example of a keyword that isn't a static ability, it is a triggered ability. This means that something like Bomat Courier also has a static, a triggered and an activated ability. As for non-keyword abilities, Asmoranomardicadaistinaculdacar also fits the definition which is fitting for a card that was basically designed as a joke to push the boundaries of what you can fit on a card.
For commander, I like to visualize the stack as a corkscrew or spiral staircase where the stack spirals up in clockwise turn order, then unwinds in counter-clockwise order as it resolves.
Technically it's "The active player's triggered abilities are put on the stack before other players' triggered abilities". Not "happen after", as that's exactly the kind of imprecise language that would make it difficult to unravel more complicated game states, and will necessarily lead to misunderstandings down the road. For instance, the triggered ability triggering, the triggered ability being put on the stack and the triggered ability resolving are three entirely different events, and either one could be referred to as the triggered ability "happening". The need to differentiate and distinguish things like this necessitates that you actually use the established lingo, especially in more complex situations. Which means that's how you need to learn it once you get past the immediate beginner stage.
In this instance, it was pretty easy to deduce that the original commenter meant "If it's your turn, you're the active player. The active player's triggered abilities resolve after the non-active players' triggered abilities." This video is meant to be aimed at players going to FNM, and beginner and intermediates. I'm not looking to nitpick over semantics.
As a non-magic player, why is this? It seems reverse in logic than how I would imagine a card game's abilities going off. I imagine them like yugioh where if they're both the same "speed" the active player's ability goes off first, but that's not the case here. Is this just to add complexity to Magic, or is there a thematic reason for this?
One of the core game play principles in MTG is 'priority'. The person who's turn it is always gets priority first and chooses whether or not they want to do something. Whenever a player does something or looks to change phases, the opposing player gets the chance to do something in response, once both players pass priority in a row, the game moves on. Like how in Poker, if someone bets, you check with each player if they would also like to bet. And if someone raises, the checks go around again. In this instance, whenever two things happen controlled by a different player, the overarching rule says "whoever has priority goes first", not in the sense of resolving something/making something happen first, but more like locking in intent to do an action first. Then the opponent gets to go. It's not really thematic as far as I can see, I think it's there just to standardize the flow of the game. Hope that helps and not too ramble-y.
I just had a game the other day where we needed to learn this rule. The player who just went had a midnight clock out with 11 counters and the active player was about to exile it with Sarulf. Good stuff to know!
Fun fact: my cheesiest win ever used this rule. I had a Hive Mind out and played Chance for Glory (take another turn after this one, then lose the game) - because of APNAP order, my spell was lowest on the stack, with the other players' copies of my spell above mine in turn order. So they resolved in reverse turn order... meaning we played a single round in reverse turn order, each player losing the game at the end of their turn. Since I went last (because my spell resolved last), everyone else lost the game before I got to take my fatal extra turn, so I won.
Unfortunately the order should've been reversed twice, and you should've been the first to lose. Because your Chance for Glory went on the stack first, it resolves last, and because extra turns also happen last in first out, your extra turn should've happened first.
Another way is with hive mind and a "Draw X cards" spell where X is 100 or something high enough to end the game. Yours resolves last, so while it's on the stack, state based actions see that you are the only player left and thus you win before the spell resolves
Excellent video! It's def the kind of thing that newer players aren't likely to know and will definitely mess up in home games and cost them games if they ever try to do FNM. One of my favorite interactions was when Fiend Hunter, Restoration Angel, and Cloudshift in standard. Knowing when to use the flicker spell and how to stack the triggers was important for exiling one creature permanently and another under Fiend Hunter. It was also important, since I naturally had to know how to tell my opponent what I was doing, when they did and didn't have a chance to respond, and why. A judge naturally got called the first time every time. So I also naturally had to be able to tell the judge exactly what order I did things in and stacked things in. I won a lot of games with this deck, many off the back of knowing things like this!
I did put the rule number in the thumbnail and when I did a poll on this rule about 70% of 200 votes didn't know about it 😅 Hopefully the next one might be a bit more informative for you 🙂
yep very important lesson there was a gameplay when a "gravepact" was about to be cast and someone had a "It that betrays" that was actually a "Lazav, Dimir Mastermind" in play but they countered the spell anyway. why? because the player knew the next player had a "The Mimeoplasm" in hand with "Thran Temporal Gateway" armed the mimeoplasm could become a "It that betrays" as well. and because of "APNAP" the player knew the other player would get everything instead during his/her turns.
I always thought it was the reverse because I didn't realize they go on stack and are popped off FILO order like the stack. I thought the active player resolved everything first, then so on in turn order lol
That was an excellent EXAMPLE based explanation!!! I find so many questions I have are more basic in concept but noone seems to answer them (I guess they are assumed to be obvious? Shame on me lol)
Thank you! Another question about this one: in that Sheoldred vs Underworld Dreams example, would both triggers be placed on the stack together? What if one player (or both) wants to play an instant to react to these triggers? Would it be possible to have an instant resolve *between* these two triggers? (assuming opponent has 2 hp left so they don't lose the game) I hope this question is clear enough, thank you in advance!
They're placed in order, but players still get priority between each thing on the stack resolving, so yes, an instant can resolve between the two abilities.. but only if you wait for the first triggered ability to resolve, THEN play the instant, then let it resolve, then let the second triggered ability resolve. No one can play spells or abilities while there are triggered abilities waiting to be put on the stack.
In short, yes you can 🙂 Don't forget, each time a player gains priority, the game will check life totals etc so if you attempt you gain life, that ability will go on the stack and then your opponent reduces your life to 0 with another spell. Same deal applies, before the life gain spell can resolve, the game will see you at 0 life and it will end. Hope that makes sense.
Recently lost a game because I didn't fully understand this. Honestly it was an extremely messy situation because the guy kept adding to the top of the stack instead of letting anything resolve even though someone else had triggered abilities trying to go on. It was a headache to try to keep anything straight whenever he kept manipulating the stack. Now that I think about it he couldn't have won because he kept triggering his effects and didn't allow other people to trigger theirs first which would have changed everything.
When things trigger, they need to be placed on stack before anything else can happen. Only once the "waiting room for the stack" is cleared and everything is in order can players then respond again.
@@attackoncardboard Thanks a lot. I can only think of one interaction that has me scratching my head right now. (next time I test my deck, I might remember another to ask about.) My opponent has a "Myojin of Cleansing Fire" on the table. (Or a classic Wrath in hand.) I have a small army (including a Master Biomancer), a Death's Presence, and a Nim Deathmantle. My opponent activates his board wipe. I respond by activating (any and all) mana for the Deathmantle. It's my understanding that I get to choose the order that the creature' deaths are put on the stack right? So, it should be possible for me to put them on in such a way that my Master Biomancer is the last one placed on the stack. I then use Deathmantle to bring him back. He is now back on the battlefield in time to benefit from Death's Presence for every other creature (on my side) that the board wipe killed. Further, I should be able to use the Deathmantle to react to several of the creatures going to the graveyard if I have the mana for it right? That feels totally wrong to me as it feels like all the creatures should hit the graveyard at the same time so the Deathmantle should only be allowed to save one and since the wording on the deathmantle indicates that it affects a creature that just hit the graveyard, the creation of counters from the Death's Presence would have no where to go and vanish. For reference: Death's Presence: Whenever a creature you control dies, put X +1/+1 counters on target creature you control, where X is the power of the creature that died. Nim Deathmantle: Whenever a nontoken creature is put into your graveyard from the battlefield, you may pay 4. If you do, return that card to the battlefield and attach Nim Deathmantle to it. Thanks again for your time
You're half correct. Ok so boardwipe happens. A bunch of triggers go into what I like to call "the stack waiting room", this is where we line up all the ability and the order we want them to resolve in. We ALSO have to select the targets for these abilities. Death's Presence says "target creature you control" assuming all your creatures died to the boardwipe. You'll have no targets and the ability will fizzle. The abilities then go into the stack and we look to resolve them. You will get individual Death Mantle triggers and you can bring back each creature in whatever order you like (assuming to have enough mana to pay for each)
So. If i were to destroy a creature an opponent controls. And in response they sacrifice a creature to give the targeted creature indestructible. If i were to cast another spell to destroy the creature would it be destroyed? Because technically none of the abilities left the stack. So 1st in last out means the creature is destroyed before it gains indestructible?
If you've seen any of my unboxing videos, the playmat I use, I created using Quokka Mousepads. I know it says 'Mouse Pads' but they have every size you could need including playmat size. I've got a referral link in the description for 15% off if you feel like picking one up :)
@@attackoncardboard I meant the one in the example, with all the phase names and game zones in the old-border card font. Maybe not actually a real playmat but would be cool
Recently tried to understand what cards activate with Yarok The Desecrated and what don't... gave up after 5 mins and chose another commander to build deck around lol
You're looking for cards with "Triggered abilities", specifically ones that trigger when some thing enters the battlefield. If you watch my most recent video, it goes over the difference between activated and triggered abilities :)
If the Sheoldred's controller cycles during the end of their opponents turn. The Underworld Dreams trigger would go on the stack first, then Sheoldred. They would gain 2 life first, then lose 1 to Underworld Dreams.
I have had this a couple of times at my LGS. Either someone casts a chaos warp or path to exile saying. Upon your permanent entering the battlefield I target it with this instant. Though my permanent did not or trigger and etb itself. Is this a legal thing?
Ah yes. I didnt know the exact rulings, but i knew, if you both have a vein ripper (whenever a creature dies you gain 2 opponent looses 2) in play, never cast a boardwipe. Lots of opponents dont know this one tho, so they start attacking in. Result: I block with maximum trades; my vein ripper triggers after theirs; they loose the game.
Maybe it's because I'm a huge nerd, but I thought APNAP was common knowledge for resolving abilities. Thanks for doing the service of educating players who are less attentive to the rules.
I put out a poll a month or so ago and about 50% of the votes said they didn't know about APNAP. Generally, unless someone tells you about a more "intermediate" rule in MTG, people aren't going to know, and I'm happy to take that job if I have to :)
On the test, I got the "it's my second main phase" part but somehow missed the part where you passed the turn. I spent the rest of the video thinking you bungled who the active player was and was very annoyed. 🙃
The active player does get priority, their ability goes on the stack first. It's the exact same as resolving spells, who ever has priority gets the chance to cast a spell, if they do, it gets placed on the stack and then anyone can cast spell and they'll go on top of that. First in, Last out.
This is not 100% accurate: at 2:32 you said that "when multiple triggered abilities trigger at the same time, whoever the active player is puts all triggered abilities on the stack first in whichever order they like." There is a caveat to that: when there are multiple triggered abilities from the same controller, whoever is affected by those abilities gets to stack the triggers however they like. For example, if you controlled a Furnace of Rath (damage doubler) and a Mechanized Warfare (damage plus 1) and you cast Shock targeting your opponent's life total, they get to choose whether the FoR trigger goes on the stack first or second, not you. They get to say that the FoR resolves first, doubling the Shock to 4 and then the MW resolves and adds an extra damage to 5, thus saving them 1 point of damage.
Don't worry about it 🙂 can happen to anyone. I've gotten rules stuff wrong in the past, heck, in my recent short I said Bauble can counter a Hidden Away Emrakul the Aeons torn, but I completely forget they literally have "can't be countered" in their rules text. 😅
@@attackoncardboard it's the "simple" things that get you, I think. When you're so focused on the complex interactions that the basic things fade into the background.
@@attackoncardboard because triggers, unlike spells, are mandatory to be executed - you are not required to cast a spell when you can, but are required to perform a triggered action - unless it's optional trigger.
Depends on the situation. One quirky example I can think of is a combo involving Door to Nothingness. You activate it targeting yourself, then you cast Radiant Performer, that copies the Door's ability and targets all other legal targets (the 3 other players). So you win the game with "you lose the game" on the stack.
I understand that knowing the rules will allow you to evaluate the game state and correctly determine an outcome - for example the game ending. But assuming all players participate by the same rules and play correctly - in what way does this video assist in winning more games of magic? I feel like that's clickbait and this entire video was a rules explanation video.
But therein lies the problem. There is such a depth to the game you cant expect all players to know all the rules and how things work. I've been playing the game since Shadowmoore and I still can't tell you exactly how layers work. And I bet there's even more players that don't even know layers exist. All I'm looking to do is do exactly what you said, make sure all participating players have a decent amount of rules knowledge. I don't expect anyone to read the comprehensive rules and know everything, but if I can break down some of that book into a digestible format for players, and they're able to walk away having learnt something more about the game. I've achieved what I wanted.
@@attackoncardboard was mostly just commenting for +1 algorithm lol. But I feel you. Wanna play magic? See if your university offers that course and meet up with me after you defend your thesis xD
Ah all good. Was just answering your question :) I didn't take any negative feelings from your comment. I've lost games at IRL Tournaments because I didn't have a deeper understanding of the rules. Just hoping to pass on the knowledge :)
I've seen many matches last rotation, where someone wrongly Meathooks a board with an opposing meathook already on the board, thinking they've won, only to get destroyed by the enemy's triggers.
it seems we are plying with the wrong understanding the whole time, we always think the active player will decide the order of all triggered abilities(whether or not it is controlled by him)
That might be because there's a similar but different rule regarding *replacement* effects: when multiple replacement effects would apply to a single thing, that thing's controller determines the order in which they apply, no matter who controls the replacement effects, even if they make other waiting replacement effects invalid. This can be important if something would be, say, shuffled back into library and also exiled at the same time, if they're both "instead of going to graveyard".
@@gatherer818 Strictly speaking, the decision is made by the controller of the object being affected (or the player being affected) by the event that's being replaced. This is a very important distinction for replacement effects that can change how much damage is being dealt. Which is important when something gives +1 damage and something else doubles damage. Whoever is taking damage or controls the object that's taking damage gets to decide in which order these are applied. Also, this choice is made separately for each object taking damage, even if the damage all happens simultaneously through something like Blasphemous Act.
Just for fun, pre-6th edition, the sheoldred player wouldn't lose as both effects would have resolved before a check of life total would occur at the end of the phase.
Thanks for this. I also am a very long time Magic player that has taken long breaks from the game scene. I was positive that life total checks didn't happen until a phase change and I'm glad to know that I wasn't crazy for believing that. Thinking more about it, I also can understand the motivation for the change: being forced to draw a card when you could not always resulted in an immediate loss with no chance to respond, and in the interest of simplification it makes sense to bring the life total rule in line with every other state-based loss effect.
I could have sworn that players simply couldn't lose due to loss of life until the stack resolved thanks to seeing this happen multiple times in games on arena... I guess arena is just built different, then??
@@Brass319 100% you can lose due to life loss with things on the stack. The same way creatures can die due to have more damage than they have health. State-base checks are checked anytime priority is passed. As someone who has played with both Sheoldred and Meathook, 100% Arena follows the APNAP rules perfectly. There is no way you've seen players go to Negative life thanks to Sheoldred and Meathook triggers and not lose the game. (Outside of things like Phyrexian Unlife etc)
@@attackoncardboard Not sheoldred or something, can't rember exactly what it was, mighta been like angel of destiny or whatever. I'm even more confused by now but I _know_ I've seen it at least once. If it helps it was just like the one thing on the stack... I think??? that or mandela effect.
Just to see if I understand something: state-based actions happen every time a player received priority (such as when the triggers are resolving down the stack). In the video's example the opponent dies because the AP's Sheoldred trigger will give players priority and thus check state-based actions, where the game will note the opponent has 0 life. This is *different* than taking damage and also gaining life with lifelink because the damage and life gain happen at the same time. It just felt like a similar example to me, but is different because lifelink is a static ability, not a triggered ability.
You're 100% correct. If you play MTG Arena, Lifelink is kinda shown incorrectly. You'll always see a player drop down in life THEN heal back up due to Lifelink. But from a rules standpoint, it all happens at the same time.🙂
@@attackoncardboard my understanding is that us just a limitation of the games ability to convey the results. Like, it can only process one effect at a time, it can't just run it all at once. So it basically has to do it in two processes.
You are exactly correct, this is why life from the spirit link aura will not save you, but lifelink will. Spirit link is worded like this: "Whenever enchanted creature deals damage, you gain that much life" You can note that it starts with "whenever" meaning it is a triggered ability, and the lifegain will go on the stack potentially leaving you dead before it can resolve. Lifelink is worded differently: "Damage dealt by a source with lifelink causes that source's controller to gain that much life", we can note that this is not starting with one of the words that mark a triggered ability (when, whenever or at) thus this ability is static, and doesn't use the stack.
I admitadly already have known this for some time but this is a really good explanation of a very important rule that sadly not allot of commander players are aware of
I love that both Magic the Gathering and Computer Science both have an abstract structure that operate similarly and are called the exact same thing (The Stack). There also happens to be a significant overlap in MtG players and CS majors
this ruling is really just a consequence of the more fundamental principle of player priority at any instance where actions could be taken, the active player(s) always receives priority first, even if they then choose to do nothing. priority is only passed to a non-active player after the active player either takes an action, or declines to do so this applies even to triggers, with priority belonging to the active player at the moment any abilities are triggered, resulting in theirs being stacked first
wait, is it? so the active player can hold priority after an ability of theirs triggers and take a game action before the non-active player's triggered abilities go on the stack, if they so desire?
reading rule 117.2 i don't think this is how it works. once *any* player gets priority, *all* abilities that were triggered go on the stack in APNAP order
Using the Underworld Dreams and Sheoldred example: Sheoldred controller goes to their draw step, draws their card. Sheoldred and Underworld Dreams trigger, before any player can do anything, the triggered abilities MUST be placed on the stack. Players cant take any actions if there are triggers in the "Waiting to go on the stack" waiting room. Once ALL triggered abilities are on the stack, in the APNAP order, then the active player receives priority and can then cast spells etc. Hope that clears things up.
@@Fopenplop what I meant to specify is that if both players have multiple effects trigger at the same time, the active player receives priority for the purpose of deciding in what order their effects should trigger, then that priority shifts to the non active player for the purpose of choosing the order of their triggers, after which point all said triggers are placed on the stack in APNAP order, specifically in the order chosen by the effects' controllers. I didn't mean to suggest that this process can be interrupted by instant speed effects or mana abilities.
I learned this during MID/VOW, playing standard on Arena and having both players play Meathook Massacres into complex boardstates. Stuff got very confusing until I looked up how this worked!
@@attackoncardboard Yup, often how it has to go. Ya think you understand something one way, and don't know you have it wrong until somebody schools you by doing it the right way.
A more confusing example of APNAP application would be using Athreos, Shroud-Veiled. If both players have Athreos on their side of the field, whenever a creature with a coin counter dies or gets exiled a player whose turn it is currently is NOT the one who gets the creature returned under their control.
I was cynical about your video title "win more game", thinking it might be clickbait. But I clicked anyway, prepared to block your channel. But, you came through. I already knew about apnap but I'm glad your title wasn't clickbait. Subbed.
I wanted to make the video because of all the Sheoldreds and Raffines floating around and watching people lose the game, because they would attack with their Raffine thinking their Sheoldred would trigger first 😅
I think this needs an S. APNAPS. Active player, nonactive player, stack. Because APNAP still sounds like the active player's triggers should resolve first, since AP comes before NAP in the mnemonic. Adding the S implies that this all uses the stack, which lets players know to follow the rules for the stack.
thank you, the sheoldred vs underworld dreams example answered my question on board wipes. if i was to cast a board wipe, my opponents triggered abilities resolve before mine.
That's odd because Yugioh used to have a rule that worked with priority called turn player priority that said the "active player" (the turn player) could activate cards in response to triggers before the opponent (trigger ex: summoning a monster, activating an effect, changing the phase). It basically let monsters chain their own effects to the summon of themself which lets them activate effects you need to declare. An example was judgement dragon had an effect that says "You can pay 1000 Life Points; destroy all other cards on the field." under this rule, you would be able to chain to his summon before something like bottomless traphole could be used to banish it. All in all it was confusing rule and thankfully they got rid of it.
Playing with random people there can be a lot of confusion about when people think things are going to trigger/resolve. I learned a ton about stuff like this just playing MTG: arena on PC. It will let you know a lot about when someone's trying to bend rules to their own gain because you'll start to know the EXACT rules and when things properly happen.
I’m fairly certain I knew this but I don’t believe I’ve ever actively used it. It’s one of those things I’d have to actively integrate into my gameplay. I’ve done it with priority in commander and have used it to help with games, this is soemthing I’m gonna have to do as well.
Dimir group hug Hivemind on the battlefield Cast "One with Death" The active player will be the last player to resolve their One with Death, resulting in them winning.
Silly enough, this does not apply to replacement effects. APNAP does not apply for simultaneous replacement effects (triggered abilities with the word "instead"). The player that is affected or the controller of the affected object decides the order in which the replacement effects apply regardless of who controls the replacement effect. Players make choices regarding this in APNAP order, however. For example, two players in a four player game control their own copies of Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet and one player in the game casts a board wipe such as Wrath of God. Each player, in APNAP order, chooses which replacement effect resolves first for their creatures. If two of your opponents have a Kalitas, you choose which gets the Zombie token. The players that have a Kalitas would only have one replacement effect as it only cares for opponent's creatures and doesn't create a replacement effect for their own. If there were also a Rest In Peace in play, you could choose for the Rest in Peace to apply first (put on the stack last) so no opponent gets a token, even if you are the controller of the Rest in Peace. Edit: Similarly, if you have multiple abilities *you control* that all hit the stack at the same time you can choose the order in which they go on the stack, as mentioned in the video. A common example I'm familiar with is Eldrazi Displacer and Thought-Knot Seer. When you blink TKS there are two triggers that will be put on the stack after the ability resolves. You can choose to have the opponent draw a card from the leave trigger before the enter trigger resolves and allows you to see their hand and exile a card, or choose the reverse, as both are triggers you control and enter the stack at the same time.
I already knew about it so I can't say I learned anything but it was very good video non the less and you explained the rule very well, I am sure it was helpful for a lot of newer players.
I'm sure the answer is obvious but could I ask an explaination on cards like Cultist of the Absolute when paired with Karona False God, in a commander game, I have cultist of the absolute and my commander is Karona, it comes to my turn and cultist says i need to sacrifice a creature but is my commander on my side of the field at the time or is it still under the control of my opponent? do i need to sacrifice a creature?
Here's another one that's weird. It involves Lich's Mastery (look up what it does, it's a lot of text) but TLDR is that you can't lose the game, whenever you lose life exile that many cards from your hand, field, or graveyard, and when Lich's Mastery leaves the field its controller loses. Suppose each player is dealt 100 damage and everyone only has 20 life. You control Lich's Mastery and so its ability triggers telling you to exile 100 cards. Obviously you don't have enough to survive so you end up exiling Lich's Mastery and losing... EXCEPT, your opponents have all already lost due to state based actions and your trigger to exile all your cards is on the stack. But since you're the only player left at this point, you win
NitpickingNerd's Mia has a deck that activates Door to Nothingness targeting *yourself* and then with that ability on the stack you cast Radiant Performer to copy the trigger for everyone else. So you win the game with "You lose the game" on the stack 😂
I personally don't really like the APNAP thing. Feels like it implies that there are only 2 players too much. Since all the crazy rules are often about multiple players. Something like APFI for Active Player First In feels better. Which combined with the FILO nature of the stack, feels like it makes more sense.
MTG was initially a 2 player game, however it has evolved over time. APNAP literally just states that simultaneous triggers happen in turn order. Active Player, Non Activate player (IE every other no activate player)
I won a very close game in a draft with APNAP. We were both at very low life, and he swung out. I blocked, and the death trigger on my Perilous Myr went on the stack after his death effect (I forget which card,) so my trigger resolves before his. He was actually the person who first taught me the APNAP rule, so it was kinda like finally surpassing my teacher 😅
One thing about APNAP I don't like: the same set of triggers produces a different result simply because of whose turn it is. IMO, the same boardstate should result have the same result. No, I don't have a solution.
Just wait until you see replacement effects. In their case, the defending player gets to choose the order of how they're stacked, regardless of who controls them 😂
How about a situation when: Player A has 9 poison counters Player B has 1 hp and norns decree (Whenever one or more creatures an opponent controls deal combat damage to you, that opponent gets a poison counter.) it's player A turn and he attacks player B with a lethal 1/1 creature. Who wins?
"Whenever" signifies a triggered ability. So combat damage happens. Trigger gets put on stack. Before trigger resolves, the game sees a player on 0 life (state-based checks). Player B loses the game before the trigger can resolve. I'll have a video on state-based checks in the future :)
arena is where I lovingly learned that if you have lifegain or gain life abilities triggered while on defense. If the attacking player doesn't do the math right, just because I hit zero initially, doesn't mean I'm actually dead... this has allowed me to win some razor thin draft matches^=^
Yeah, damage happens all at the same time, but Arena displays it as two *steps* which is technically incorrect, but it's obviously the best way to make it clear what happened. That's why I like making these videos to clear things up :)
The active player is on his draw step, so his trigger should be first? Right? He gains 2 life then loses 1 life from a triggered ability of non active player... I don't get it :(
Both abilities, Sheoldred and Underworld Dreams, both trigger on the opponent drawing a card. So the overall question were answering is "how do you know which one resolves first?". In this case, APNAP states the active player puts their ability ON the stack first, (not RESOLVE their ability first), then the non-active players ability goes on the stack. We then resolve the stack top to bottom. So the Non-active players abilities will always resolve before the active player. Does that make more sense?
Well I did learn. But I don't like this rule. I don't think a player should be able to lose until the current stack has resolved. Someone now explain to me how this causes someone to be incapable of losing ever and call me an idiot please.
There are intentional draw combos that exist. Effectively a loop is set up where triggers constantly get put on the stack and the triggers loop themselves. The game will then end in a draw because nobody can do anything. Spark Double and Garruk Relentless does this. (This combo is only sorcery speed though)
So if im the non active player i can only cast a spell when i have priority correct? Can i hold priority after casting a spell in response to the active player casting something to cast multiple spells?
As the non-active player, you can only take an action once priority has been passed to you by the active player. Once you have priority, you can choose to hold onto it and take as many actions as you're allowed. Of course, once you've taken your actions and placed your spells or abilities on the stack, you'll have to pass priority back to your opponent before anything resolves. Only when both players pass priority in a row will the stack begin to resolve. Either player can of course obtain priority again between each resolution of a spell or ability :)
how does this work if a creature an opponent controls attacks me, it has trample and I have let's say an aristrocrat effect in play and we're both at 1 life?
Combat damage happens before any triggered abilities get a chance to resolve. So the defending player would be at 0 or less life when the Aristocrat ability gets put on the stack and the defending player would die due to state-based check.
I think everyone in my play group gets this. It's really replacement effects that trip people up. For example, Meddling Mage naming Lightning Bolt never has a point in which it can be targeted by Lightning Bolt. This is because "as this enters the battlefield" is a replacement effect that basically treats the card as though it says "if this would enter the battlefield, do this first, then it enters". There is never a point in time in which Meddling Mage would be on the battlefield as a legal target for the Lightning Bolt in which Lightning Bolt is not already a card named by Meddling Mage which can now not be played.
Hey Cardboard, I’m building a food deck and curious about “Giant Opportunity”. It says MAY sacrifice 2 foods. Then OTHERWISE after. Does that mean I can choose to make 3 foods for 2G?!
On a slightly tangential note, but the perfect example card for abilities is Magda, Blazin' Outlaw. She has a static ability, a triggered ability, and an activated ability.
These kind of creatures are actually very common. Keywords hide rules text, which means a lot of creatures with keywords have static abilities. Flying, Trample, Haste etc. are all static abilities. Prowess is an example of a keyword that isn't a static ability, it is a triggered ability. This means that something like Bomat Courier also has a static, a triggered and an activated ability.
As for non-keyword abilities, Asmoranomardicadaistinaculdacar also fits the definition which is fitting for a card that was basically designed as a joke to push the boundaries of what you can fit on a card.
And quite a bit of capability!
For commander, I like to visualize the stack as a corkscrew or spiral staircase where the stack spirals up in clockwise turn order, then unwinds in counter-clockwise order as it resolves.
If it’s your turn, you’re the active player
The active player’s triggered abilities happen after other players’ triggered abilities
Correct 🙂
Technically it's "The active player's triggered abilities are put on the stack before other players' triggered abilities".
Not "happen after", as that's exactly the kind of imprecise language that would make it difficult to unravel more complicated game states, and will necessarily lead to misunderstandings down the road.
For instance, the triggered ability triggering, the triggered ability being put on the stack and the triggered ability resolving are three entirely different events, and either one could be referred to as the triggered ability "happening". The need to differentiate and distinguish things like this necessitates that you actually use the established lingo, especially in more complex situations. Which means that's how you need to learn it once you get past the immediate beginner stage.
In this instance, it was pretty easy to deduce that the original commenter meant "If it's your turn, you're the active player. The active player's triggered abilities resolve after the non-active players' triggered abilities."
This video is meant to be aimed at players going to FNM, and beginner and intermediates. I'm not looking to nitpick over semantics.
As a non-magic player, why is this? It seems reverse in logic than how I would imagine a card game's abilities going off. I imagine them like yugioh where if they're both the same "speed" the active player's ability goes off first, but that's not the case here. Is this just to add complexity to Magic, or is there a thematic reason for this?
One of the core game play principles in MTG is 'priority'. The person who's turn it is always gets priority first and chooses whether or not they want to do something. Whenever a player does something or looks to change phases, the opposing player gets the chance to do something in response, once both players pass priority in a row, the game moves on. Like how in Poker, if someone bets, you check with each player if they would also like to bet. And if someone raises, the checks go around again.
In this instance, whenever two things happen controlled by a different player, the overarching rule says "whoever has priority goes first", not in the sense of resolving something/making something happen first, but more like locking in intent to do an action first. Then the opponent gets to go.
It's not really thematic as far as I can see, I think it's there just to standardize the flow of the game.
Hope that helps and not too ramble-y.
This was an informative and well-edited video - you definitely deserve more subscribers because this was great!
Really appreciate the kind words 😊
Thanks! For a long time I didn't understand why I lost when I was on 2 life and there were two Sheoldreds on the field. Now I get it.
I just had a game the other day where we needed to learn this rule. The player who just went had a midnight clock out with 11 counters and the active player was about to exile it with Sarulf. Good stuff to know!
really needed this video me and my friends have been trying to figure this out, great video man :)
I'm glad you learnt something! It's such an important rule to know 🙂
Fun fact: my cheesiest win ever used this rule. I had a Hive Mind out and played Chance for Glory (take another turn after this one, then lose the game) - because of APNAP order, my spell was lowest on the stack, with the other players' copies of my spell above mine in turn order. So they resolved in reverse turn order... meaning we played a single round in reverse turn order, each player losing the game at the end of their turn. Since I went last (because my spell resolved last), everyone else lost the game before I got to take my fatal extra turn, so I won.
Unfortunately the order should've been reversed twice, and you should've been the first to lose.
Because your Chance for Glory went on the stack first, it resolves last, and because extra turns also happen last in first out, your extra turn should've happened first.
@@mawillix2018 Huh, you right. I had at least two ways to avoid losing, though, so it would only have changed the turn order, not the outcome.
Another way is with hive mind and a "Draw X cards" spell where X is 100 or something high enough to end the game. Yours resolves last, so while it's on the stack, state based actions see that you are the only player left and thus you win before the spell resolves
Great video! Had to learn this the hard way after a few mirrors where both players had meathook massacre on board haha
I think we've all been there 🤣
Excellent video! It's def the kind of thing that newer players aren't likely to know and will definitely mess up in home games and cost them games if they ever try to do FNM. One of my favorite interactions was when Fiend Hunter, Restoration Angel, and Cloudshift in standard. Knowing when to use the flicker spell and how to stack the triggers was important for exiling one creature permanently and another under Fiend Hunter. It was also important, since I naturally had to know how to tell my opponent what I was doing, when they did and didn't have a chance to respond, and why. A judge naturally got called the first time every time. So I also naturally had to be able to tell the judge exactly what order I did things in and stacked things in. I won a lot of games with this deck, many off the back of knowing things like this!
Learned this one playing Huntmaster of the Fells mirrors.
Honestly I was kind of expecting this to be clickbait based on the title.
But I’m pleasantly surprised to be wrong. You earned a like and a new sub!
shouldn’t have clicked on this expecting a rule that i actually didn’t know 😂 apnap is FUNDAMENTAL in commander and can decide so many games
I did put the rule number in the thumbnail and when I did a poll on this rule about 70% of 200 votes didn't know about it 😅
Hopefully the next one might be a bit more informative for you 🙂
yep very important lesson
there was a gameplay when a "gravepact" was about to be cast and someone had a "It that betrays" that was actually a "Lazav, Dimir Mastermind" in play but they countered the spell anyway. why?
because the player knew the next player had a "The Mimeoplasm" in hand with "Thran Temporal Gateway" armed the mimeoplasm could become a "It that betrays" as well. and because of "APNAP" the player knew the other player would get everything instead during his/her turns.
I always thought it was the reverse because I didn't realize they go on stack and are popped off FILO order like the stack. I thought the active player resolved everything first, then so on in turn order lol
Glad this video could clear things up 😁
That was an excellent EXAMPLE based explanation!!! I find so many questions I have are more basic in concept but noone seems to answer them (I guess they are assumed to be obvious? Shame on me lol)
If you have any more questions feel free to ask them here and I'll do my best to explain. Who knows, it might become a video 🙂
It also works by making a token of sheoldred and killing the opponent that way croaking counterpart has been so good to me
Can we get a video on layers? I get real confused sometimes with dependancy situations and timestamps and when those all apply
I definately want to do a video on layers. It probably won't be my next one or so but it's 100% on the cards.
Thank you! Another question about this one: in that Sheoldred vs Underworld Dreams example, would both triggers be placed on the stack together? What if one player (or both) wants to play an instant to react to these triggers? Would it be possible to have an instant resolve *between* these two triggers? (assuming opponent has 2 hp left so they don't lose the game)
I hope this question is clear enough, thank you in advance!
They're placed in order, but players still get priority between each thing on the stack resolving, so yes, an instant can resolve between the two abilities.. but only if you wait for the first triggered ability to resolve, THEN play the instant, then let it resolve, then let the second triggered ability resolve. No one can play spells or abilities while there are triggered abilities waiting to be put on the stack.
In short, yes you can 🙂
Don't forget, each time a player gains priority, the game will check life totals etc so if you attempt you gain life, that ability will go on the stack and then your opponent reduces your life to 0 with another spell. Same deal applies, before the life gain spell can resolve, the game will see you at 0 life and it will end. Hope that makes sense.
Recently lost a game because I didn't fully understand this. Honestly it was an extremely messy situation because the guy kept adding to the top of the stack instead of letting anything resolve even though someone else had triggered abilities trying to go on. It was a headache to try to keep anything straight whenever he kept manipulating the stack. Now that I think about it he couldn't have won because he kept triggering his effects and didn't allow other people to trigger theirs first which would have changed everything.
When things trigger, they need to be placed on stack before anything else can happen. Only once the "waiting room for the stack" is cleared and everything is in order can players then respond again.
Thanks. I feel like there are other situations that I avoid in my games if I can help it because I am fuzzy on how the rules will work.
If you have any other situations or examples you're unsure of, feel free to comment them here and I'll help 🙂
@@attackoncardboard Thanks a lot. I can only think of one interaction that has me scratching my head right now. (next time I test my deck, I might remember another to ask about.)
My opponent has a "Myojin of Cleansing Fire" on the table. (Or a classic Wrath in hand.)
I have a small army (including a Master Biomancer), a Death's Presence, and a Nim Deathmantle.
My opponent activates his board wipe.
I respond by activating (any and all) mana for the Deathmantle.
It's my understanding that I get to choose the order that the creature' deaths are put on the stack right? So, it should be possible for me to put them on in such a way that my Master Biomancer is the last one placed on the stack. I then use Deathmantle to bring him back. He is now back on the battlefield in time to benefit from Death's Presence for every other creature (on my side) that the board wipe killed. Further, I should be able to use the Deathmantle to react to several of the creatures going to the graveyard if I have the mana for it right?
That feels totally wrong to me as it feels like all the creatures should hit the graveyard at the same time so the Deathmantle should only be allowed to save one and since the wording on the deathmantle indicates that it affects a creature that just hit the graveyard, the creation of counters from the Death's Presence would have no where to go and vanish.
For reference:
Death's Presence: Whenever a creature you control dies, put X +1/+1 counters on target creature you control, where X is the power of the creature that died.
Nim Deathmantle: Whenever a nontoken creature is put into your graveyard from the battlefield, you may pay 4. If you do, return that card to the battlefield and attach Nim Deathmantle to it.
Thanks again for your time
You're half correct.
Ok so boardwipe happens. A bunch of triggers go into what I like to call "the stack waiting room", this is where we line up all the ability and the order we want them to resolve in. We ALSO have to select the targets for these abilities. Death's Presence says "target creature you control" assuming all your creatures died to the boardwipe. You'll have no targets and the ability will fizzle. The abilities then go into the stack and we look to resolve them.
You will get individual Death Mantle triggers and you can bring back each creature in whatever order you like (assuming to have enough mana to pay for each)
Very good explanation!
Good to know, thank you!
You're welcome. If there's any other rules questions you have, let me know :)
A clone deck always sitting next to a Tergrid deck is how we got the Tergrid player to stop playing Tergrid.
really good advice!
Glad to help :)
So. If i were to destroy a creature an opponent controls. And in response they sacrifice a creature to give the targeted creature indestructible. If i were to cast another spell to destroy the creature would it be destroyed? Because technically none of the abilities left the stack. So 1st in last out means the creature is destroyed before it gains indestructible?
Correct! (This is just how the stack and priority works in general. APNAP is how to order triggers that occur at the same time.)
They would be cool playmats, super retro.
If you've seen any of my unboxing videos, the playmat I use, I created using Quokka Mousepads. I know it says 'Mouse Pads' but they have every size you could need including playmat size. I've got a referral link in the description for 15% off if you feel like picking one up :)
@@attackoncardboard I meant the one in the example, with all the phase names and game zones in the old-border card font. Maybe not actually a real playmat but would be cool
Recently tried to understand what cards activate with Yarok The Desecrated and what don't... gave up after 5 mins and chose another commander to build deck around lol
You're looking for cards with "Triggered abilities", specifically ones that trigger when some thing enters the battlefield.
If you watch my most recent video, it goes over the difference between activated and triggered abilities :)
Say the guy with she-old has a cycling card in hand can he survive if he cycles at the end of his opps turn?
If the Sheoldred's controller cycles during the end of their opponents turn. The Underworld Dreams trigger would go on the stack first, then Sheoldred. They would gain 2 life first, then lose 1 to Underworld Dreams.
I have had this a couple of times at my LGS. Either someone casts a chaos warp or path to exile saying. Upon your permanent entering the battlefield I target it with this instant. Though my permanent did not or trigger and etb itself. Is this a legal thing?
Ah yes. I didnt know the exact rulings, but i knew, if you both have a vein ripper (whenever a creature dies you gain 2 opponent looses 2) in play, never cast a boardwipe. Lots of opponents dont know this one tho, so they start attacking in. Result: I block with maximum trades; my vein ripper triggers after theirs; they loose the game.
Vein Ripper is a great current example!
According to arena they don't survive with sheoldred because underworld dreams triggers before sheoldred not at the same time
And now I understand why.
but you have to look at the drawn card first because you can still respond with it if it's an instant.
That's why I said "they draw a Swamp for the turn" 😉
Here's my rule:
The most dangerous opponent is the one with untapped lands and a hand full of cards.
It's me, but with a hand full of lands 😭
Good video
Thanks for watching 🙂
Maybe it's because I'm a huge nerd, but I thought APNAP was common knowledge for resolving abilities. Thanks for doing the service of educating players who are less attentive to the rules.
I put out a poll a month or so ago and about 50% of the votes said they didn't know about APNAP. Generally, unless someone tells you about a more "intermediate" rule in MTG, people aren't going to know, and I'm happy to take that job if I have to :)
On the test, I got the "it's my second main phase" part but somehow missed the part where you passed the turn. I spent the rest of the video thinking you bungled who the active player was and was very annoyed. 🙃
😅 I even added the little rectangles to show the phases. Hope it was made clear in the end :)
Underworld Dreams
Yeah I caught that during the edit. I couldn't be bothered rerecording the lines 😅 the video was already taking too long to make.
@@attackoncardboard Lol, it's all good. It was quite a helpful video.
I was under the impression that a player having 0 or less life only causes them to loose the game when the end of phase checks on life totals.
Any time a player would receive priority is when state-based checks happen :)
That was until sixth edition - about 20 years ago.
whats a magic?
It's a brilliant trading card game that's been around for 30 years 🙂
This rule should be the other way around. The active player should have the priority
The active player does get priority, their ability goes on the stack first.
It's the exact same as resolving spells, who ever has priority gets the chance to cast a spell, if they do, it gets placed on the stack and then anyone can cast spell and they'll go on top of that. First in, Last out.
On one hand I wish WOTC would create a entirely new and simplified rule set. But seeing what the did to D&D, I know how awful the results would be.
Just wait till you get into 3+ player games and now you got to resolve abilities in turn order.
*Reverse turn order.
They get placed on the stack in turn order, but the stack resolves top to bottom. "First in, Last Out"
👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
This is not 100% accurate: at 2:32 you said that "when multiple triggered abilities trigger at the same time, whoever the active player is puts all triggered abilities on the stack first in whichever order they like."
There is a caveat to that: when there are multiple triggered abilities from the same controller, whoever is affected by those abilities gets to stack the triggers however they like.
For example, if you controlled a Furnace of Rath (damage doubler) and a Mechanized Warfare (damage plus 1) and you cast Shock targeting your opponent's life total, they get to choose whether the FoR trigger goes on the stack first or second, not you. They get to say that the FoR resolves first, doubling the Shock to 4 and then the MW resolves and adds an extra damage to 5, thus saving them 1 point of damage.
Replacement effects and triggered abilities are not the same thing. You don't put replacement effects on the stack.
@@attackoncardboard I... yep. Yes, yep. Yep. Yeah. Thank you. Also I apologise for incorrectly correcting. My shame will remain here forever.
😅🙃😅
Don't worry about it 🙂 can happen to anyone. I've gotten rules stuff wrong in the past, heck, in my recent short I said Bauble can counter a Hidden Away Emrakul the Aeons torn, but I completely forget they literally have "can't be countered" in their rules text. 😅
@@attackoncardboard it's the "simple" things that get you, I think. When you're so focused on the complex interactions that the basic things fade into the background.
This should not be true, even if it is. The stack should resolve until the end, or at least for abilities with the same event.
Why would triggers on the stack resolve any differently from spells on the stack?
Why would triggers on the stack resolve any differently from spells on the stack?
@@attackoncardboard because triggers, unlike spells, are mandatory to be executed - you are not required to cast a spell when you can, but are required to perform a triggered action - unless it's optional trigger.
So being the active player is bad lol
Depends on the situation. One quirky example I can think of is a combo involving Door to Nothingness. You activate it targeting yourself, then you cast Radiant Performer, that copies the Door's ability and targets all other legal targets (the 3 other players). So you win the game with "you lose the game" on the stack.
I understand that knowing the rules will allow you to evaluate the game state and correctly determine an outcome - for example the game ending.
But assuming all players participate by the same rules and play correctly - in what way does this video assist in winning more games of magic?
I feel like that's clickbait and this entire video was a rules explanation video.
But therein lies the problem. There is such a depth to the game you cant expect all players to know all the rules and how things work. I've been playing the game since Shadowmoore and I still can't tell you exactly how layers work. And I bet there's even more players that don't even know layers exist.
All I'm looking to do is do exactly what you said, make sure all participating players have a decent amount of rules knowledge. I don't expect anyone to read the comprehensive rules and know everything, but if I can break down some of that book into a digestible format for players, and they're able to walk away having learnt something more about the game. I've achieved what I wanted.
@@attackoncardboard was mostly just commenting for +1 algorithm lol. But I feel you. Wanna play magic? See if your university offers that course and meet up with me after you defend your thesis xD
Ah all good. Was just answering your question :) I didn't take any negative feelings from your comment.
I've lost games at IRL Tournaments because I didn't have a deeper understanding of the rules. Just hoping to pass on the knowledge :)
I've seen many matches last rotation, where someone wrongly Meathooks a board with an opposing meathook already on the board, thinking they've won, only to get destroyed by the enemy's triggers.
it seems we are plying with the wrong understanding the whole time, we always think the active player will decide the order of all triggered abilities(whether or not it is controlled by him)
Glad this video has been of help them 😁
That might be because there's a similar but different rule regarding *replacement* effects: when multiple replacement effects would apply to a single thing, that thing's controller determines the order in which they apply, no matter who controls the replacement effects, even if they make other waiting replacement effects invalid. This can be important if something would be, say, shuffled back into library and also exiled at the same time, if they're both "instead of going to graveyard".
@@gatherer818 Strictly speaking, the decision is made by the controller of the object being affected (or the player being affected) by the event that's being replaced. This is a very important distinction for replacement effects that can change how much damage is being dealt. Which is important when something gives +1 damage and something else doubles damage. Whoever is taking damage or controls the object that's taking damage gets to decide in which order these are applied. Also, this choice is made separately for each object taking damage, even if the damage all happens simultaneously through something like Blasphemous Act.
Just for fun, pre-6th edition, the sheoldred player wouldn't lose as both effects would have resolved before a check of life total would occur at the end of the phase.
Me who read the rulebook pre 6th edition and made a long pause on magic, ty for clarifiyng. I tho that was still a thing.
Thanks for this. I also am a very long time Magic player that has taken long breaks from the game scene. I was positive that life total checks didn't happen until a phase change and I'm glad to know that I wasn't crazy for believing that.
Thinking more about it, I also can understand the motivation for the change: being forced to draw a card when you could not always resulted in an immediate loss with no chance to respond, and in the interest of simplification it makes sense to bring the life total rule in line with every other state-based loss effect.
I could have sworn that players simply couldn't lose due to loss of life until the stack resolved thanks to seeing this happen multiple times in games on arena... I guess arena is just built different, then??
@@Brass319 100% you can lose due to life loss with things on the stack. The same way creatures can die due to have more damage than they have health. State-base checks are checked anytime priority is passed.
As someone who has played with both Sheoldred and Meathook, 100% Arena follows the APNAP rules perfectly. There is no way you've seen players go to Negative life thanks to Sheoldred and Meathook triggers and not lose the game. (Outside of things like Phyrexian Unlife etc)
@@attackoncardboard Not sheoldred or something, can't rember exactly what it was, mighta been like angel of destiny or whatever. I'm even more confused by now but I _know_ I've seen it at least once. If it helps it was just like the one thing on the stack... I think??? that or mandela effect.
Just to see if I understand something: state-based actions happen every time a player received priority (such as when the triggers are resolving down the stack). In the video's example the opponent dies because the AP's Sheoldred trigger will give players priority and thus check state-based actions, where the game will note the opponent has 0 life. This is *different* than taking damage and also gaining life with lifelink because the damage and life gain happen at the same time. It just felt like a similar example to me, but is different because lifelink is a static ability, not a triggered ability.
You're 100% correct.
If you play MTG Arena, Lifelink is kinda shown incorrectly. You'll always see a player drop down in life THEN heal back up due to Lifelink. But from a rules standpoint, it all happens at the same time.🙂
@@attackoncardboard my understanding is that us just a limitation of the games ability to convey the results. Like, it can only process one effect at a time, it can't just run it all at once. So it basically has to do it in two processes.
You are exactly correct, this is why life from the spirit link aura will not save you, but lifelink will. Spirit link is worded like this: "Whenever enchanted creature deals damage, you gain that much life" You can note that it starts with "whenever" meaning it is a triggered ability, and the lifegain will go on the stack potentially leaving you dead before it can resolve.
Lifelink is worded differently: "Damage dealt by a source with lifelink causes that source's controller to gain that much life", we can note that this is not starting with one of the words that mark a triggered ability (when, whenever or at) thus this ability is static, and doesn't use the stack.
I admitadly already have known this for some time but this is a really good explanation of a very important rule that sadly not allot of commander players are aware of
I love that both Magic the Gathering and Computer Science both have an abstract structure that operate similarly and are called the exact same thing (The Stack). There also happens to be a significant overlap in MtG players and CS majors
this ruling is really just a consequence of the more fundamental principle of player priority
at any instance where actions could be taken, the active player(s) always receives priority first, even if they then choose to do nothing. priority is only passed to a non-active player after the active player either takes an action, or declines to do so
this applies even to triggers, with priority belonging to the active player at the moment any abilities are triggered, resulting in theirs being stacked first
wait, is it? so the active player can hold priority after an ability of theirs triggers and take a game action before the non-active player's triggered abilities go on the stack, if they so desire?
reading rule 117.2 i don't think this is how it works. once *any* player gets priority, *all* abilities that were triggered go on the stack in APNAP order
Using the Underworld Dreams and Sheoldred example:
Sheoldred controller goes to their draw step, draws their card. Sheoldred and Underworld Dreams trigger, before any player can do anything, the triggered abilities MUST be placed on the stack. Players cant take any actions if there are triggers in the "Waiting to go on the stack" waiting room.
Once ALL triggered abilities are on the stack, in the APNAP order, then the active player receives priority and can then cast spells etc.
Hope that clears things up.
@@Fopenplop what I meant to specify is that if both players have multiple effects trigger at the same time, the active player receives priority for the purpose of deciding in what order their effects should trigger, then that priority shifts to the non active player for the purpose of choosing the order of their triggers, after which point all said triggers are placed on the stack in APNAP order, specifically in the order chosen by the effects' controllers. I didn't mean to suggest that this process can be interrupted by instant speed effects or mana abilities.
I learned this during MID/VOW, playing standard on Arena and having both players play Meathook Massacres into complex boardstates. Stuff got very confusing until I looked up how this worked!
It was because of that standard environment that I decided to make this video 😅
APNAP is how I survived against a Breya player while I had Magnetic Mine out. I'm guessing the person just didn't read the card.
Most people learn this rule the hard way 😂
@@attackoncardboard Yup, often how it has to go. Ya think you understand something one way, and don't know you have it wrong until somebody schools you by doing it the right way.
A more confusing example of APNAP application would be using Athreos, Shroud-Veiled. If both players have Athreos on their side of the field, whenever a creature with a coin counter dies or gets exiled a player whose turn it is currently is NOT the one who gets the creature returned under their control.
That's why this rule is important to know 😁
nice clean video
Much appreciated. I've been working on this video for a couple of weeks. I really wanted to focus on leveling up the production value 🙂
Playing Biovisionnary and Mirrorweave in a 4 players game is always a fun way to explain this rule :D
Thanks for sharing this makes alot of sense for situations ive come to in the past i didnt understand as a newer player.
I was cynical about your video title "win more game", thinking it might be clickbait. But I clicked anyway, prepared to block your channel. But, you came through. I already knew about apnap but I'm glad your title wasn't clickbait. Subbed.
I wanted to make the video because of all the Sheoldreds and Raffines floating around and watching people lose the game, because they would attack with their Raffine thinking their Sheoldred would trigger first 😅
@@attackoncardboard I've been watching your videos -- good stuff.
I think this needs an S. APNAPS. Active player, nonactive player, stack. Because APNAP still sounds like the active player's triggers should resolve first, since AP comes before NAP in the mnemonic. Adding the S implies that this all uses the stack, which lets players know to follow the rules for the stack.
Or calling it FILO.
First in, last out is for resolving the stack. APNAP tells you which order the abilities go on the stack.
thank you, the sheoldred vs underworld dreams example answered my question on board wipes. if i was to cast a board wipe, my opponents triggered abilities resolve before mine.
That's odd because Yugioh used to have a rule that worked with priority called turn player priority that said the "active player" (the turn player) could activate cards in response to triggers before the opponent (trigger ex: summoning a monster, activating an effect, changing the phase). It basically let monsters chain their own effects to the summon of themself which lets them activate effects you need to declare. An example was judgement dragon had an effect that says "You can pay 1000 Life Points; destroy all other cards on the field." under this rule, you would be able to chain to his summon before something like bottomless traphole could be used to banish it. All in all it was confusing rule and thankfully they got rid of it.
I’ve seen a few videos about APNAP. This is probably the best one
You're too kind 😊
Playing with random people there can be a lot of confusion about when people think things are going to trigger/resolve. I learned a ton about stuff like this just playing MTG: arena on PC. It will let you know a lot about when someone's trying to bend rules to their own gain because you'll start to know the EXACT rules and when things properly happen.
I got a 5 on my AP Nap test. 💤
Very well explained
I’m fairly certain I knew this but I don’t believe I’ve ever actively used it.
It’s one of those things I’d have to actively integrate into my gameplay. I’ve done it with priority in commander and have used it to help with games, this is soemthing I’m gonna have to do as well.
This is a fantastic explanation. Easy sub! Thanks for sharing!
Thank you 😊 I hope to make more videos like this in the future 😁
Dimir group hug
Hivemind on the battlefield
Cast "One with Death"
The active player will be the last player to resolve their One with Death, resulting in them winning.
Silly enough, this does not apply to replacement effects. APNAP does not apply for simultaneous replacement effects (triggered abilities with the word "instead"). The player that is affected or the controller of the affected object decides the order in which the replacement effects apply regardless of who controls the replacement effect. Players make choices regarding this in APNAP order, however.
For example, two players in a four player game control their own copies of Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet and one player in the game casts a board wipe such as Wrath of God. Each player, in APNAP order, chooses which replacement effect resolves first for their creatures. If two of your opponents have a Kalitas, you choose which gets the Zombie token. The players that have a Kalitas would only have one replacement effect as it only cares for opponent's creatures and doesn't create a replacement effect for their own. If there were also a Rest In Peace in play, you could choose for the Rest in Peace to apply first (put on the stack last) so no opponent gets a token, even if you are the controller of the Rest in Peace.
Edit: Similarly, if you have multiple abilities *you control* that all hit the stack at the same time you can choose the order in which they go on the stack, as mentioned in the video. A common example I'm familiar with is Eldrazi Displacer and Thought-Knot Seer. When you blink TKS there are two triggers that will be put on the stack after the ability resolves. You can choose to have the opponent draw a card from the leave trigger before the enter trigger resolves and allows you to see their hand and exile a card, or choose the reverse, as both are triggers you control and enter the stack at the same time.
Ooo yes. Replacement effects is a good one! I love the interaction between deflecting palm and damage doublers!
Ah. I have lost many games I shouldn't have and won many I shouldn't have. Neat.
I already knew about it so I can't say I learned anything but it was very good video non the less and you explained the rule very well, I am sure it was helpful for a lot of newer players.
it was a little confusing, but I think I understood it with the example. thanks, I had no idea how this worked.
This is a great video, never new this and now I do so thank you for that!
Thank you very much 😊 I'll be looking to do more "break down" videos of rules in the future 🙂
This was actually really good!
Thank you for the great video!
I'm sure the answer is obvious but could I ask an explaination on cards like Cultist of the Absolute when paired with Karona False God, in a commander game, I have cultist of the absolute and my commander is Karona, it comes to my turn and cultist says i need to sacrifice a creature but is my commander on my side of the field at the time or is it still under the control of my opponent? do i need to sacrifice a creature?
By the time you gain control of Karona, it is no longer the beginning of your upkeep so you don't have to worry about sacrificing a creature 🙂
This makes a ton of sense! Thank you.
Here's another one that's weird. It involves Lich's Mastery (look up what it does, it's a lot of text) but TLDR is that you can't lose the game, whenever you lose life exile that many cards from your hand, field, or graveyard, and when Lich's Mastery leaves the field its controller loses. Suppose each player is dealt 100 damage and everyone only has 20 life. You control Lich's Mastery and so its ability triggers telling you to exile 100 cards. Obviously you don't have enough to survive so you end up exiling Lich's Mastery and losing... EXCEPT, your opponents have all already lost due to state based actions and your trigger to exile all your cards is on the stack. But since you're the only player left at this point, you win
NitpickingNerd's Mia has a deck that activates Door to Nothingness targeting *yourself* and then with that ability on the stack you cast Radiant Performer to copy the trigger for everyone else. So you win the game with "You lose the game" on the stack 😂
New player here, this was very helpful. Never would have figured this out on my own ^^
Glad I could help! Hopefully you'll enjoy the next one too :D
Perfectly eyplained
I personally don't really like the APNAP thing.
Feels like it implies that there are only 2 players too much. Since all the crazy rules are often about multiple players.
Something like APFI for Active Player First In feels better. Which combined with the FILO nature of the stack, feels like it makes more sense.
MTG was initially a 2 player game, however it has evolved over time. APNAP literally just states that simultaneous triggers happen in turn order. Active Player, Non Activate player (IE every other no activate player)
I won a very close game in a draft with APNAP. We were both at very low life, and he swung out. I blocked, and the death trigger on my Perilous Myr went on the stack after his death effect (I forget which card,) so my trigger resolves before his. He was actually the person who first taught me the APNAP rule, so it was kinda like finally surpassing my teacher 😅
The student becomes the master 🤣
One thing about APNAP I don't like: the same set of triggers produces a different result simply because of whose turn it is. IMO, the same boardstate should result have the same result.
No, I don't have a solution.
Just wait until you see replacement effects. In their case, the defending player gets to choose the order of how they're stacked, regardless of who controls them 😂
I learned it's called Underworld OF Dreams..... I've been calling it Underworld Dreams for over 20 years. Hu, learn something new every day
😅 That's my mistake. Force of Habit. I always thought it was "OF" but it wasn't until I was editing the video until I realised my mistake 🤣
Thank you so much for this video and your channel, I really like your style and I´ve learnt a lot from your contents!
That's wonderful to hear! ☺️ Thank you so much for taking the time to comment. I hope you enjoy the content that's yet to come 😀
How about a situation when:
Player A has 9 poison counters
Player B has 1 hp and norns decree (Whenever one or more creatures an opponent controls deal combat damage to you, that opponent gets a poison counter.)
it's player A turn and he attacks player B with a lethal 1/1 creature. Who wins?
"Whenever" signifies a triggered ability.
So combat damage happens. Trigger gets put on stack. Before trigger resolves, the game sees a player on 0 life (state-based checks). Player B loses the game before the trigger can resolve.
I'll have a video on state-based checks in the future :)
arena is where I lovingly learned that if you have lifegain or gain life abilities triggered while on defense. If the attacking player doesn't do the math right, just because I hit zero initially, doesn't mean I'm actually dead...
this has allowed me to win some razor thin draft matches^=^
Yeah, damage happens all at the same time, but Arena displays it as two *steps* which is technically incorrect, but it's obviously the best way to make it clear what happened. That's why I like making these videos to clear things up :)
The active player is on his draw step, so his trigger should be first? Right? He gains 2 life then loses 1 life from a triggered ability of non active player... I don't get it :(
Both abilities, Sheoldred and Underworld Dreams, both trigger on the opponent drawing a card. So the overall question were answering is "how do you know which one resolves first?".
In this case, APNAP states the active player puts their ability ON the stack first, (not RESOLVE their ability first), then the non-active players ability goes on the stack.
We then resolve the stack top to bottom. So the Non-active players abilities will always resolve before the active player. Does that make more sense?
Well I did learn. But I don't like this rule. I don't think a player should be able to lose until the current stack has resolved.
Someone now explain to me how this causes someone to be incapable of losing ever and call me an idiot please.
There are intentional draw combos that exist. Effectively a loop is set up where triggers constantly get put on the stack and the triggers loop themselves. The game will then end in a draw because nobody can do anything.
Spark Double and Garruk Relentless does this. (This combo is only sorcery speed though)
So if im the non active player i can only cast a spell when i have priority correct? Can i hold priority after casting a spell in response to the active player casting something to cast multiple spells?
As the non-active player, you can only take an action once priority has been passed to you by the active player. Once you have priority, you can choose to hold onto it and take as many actions as you're allowed. Of course, once you've taken your actions and placed your spells or abilities on the stack, you'll have to pass priority back to your opponent before anything resolves.
Only when both players pass priority in a row will the stack begin to resolve. Either player can of course obtain priority again between each resolution of a spell or ability :)
It doesn't matter if I know the rule. What matters is if the judge knows the rule.
At a proper tournament (something larger than a FNM) you can always ask the head judge for a second opinion :)
how does this work if a creature an opponent controls attacks me, it has trample and I have let's say an aristrocrat effect in play and we're both at 1 life?
Combat damage happens before any triggered abilities get a chance to resolve. So the defending player would be at 0 or less life when the Aristocrat ability gets put on the stack and the defending player would die due to state-based check.
cool!
Remember when damage went on the stack? Ah, the shenanigans....
I think, thankfully, I only remember playing a single prerelease where damage went on the stack. I just remember how busted Mog Fanatic was.
I think everyone in my play group gets this. It's really replacement effects that trip people up. For example, Meddling Mage naming Lightning Bolt never has a point in which it can be targeted by Lightning Bolt. This is because "as this enters the battlefield" is a replacement effect that basically treats the card as though it says "if this would enter the battlefield, do this first, then it enters". There is never a point in time in which Meddling Mage would be on the battlefield as a legal target for the Lightning Bolt in which Lightning Bolt is not already a card named by Meddling Mage which can now not be played.
Iona, Shield of Emeria is my favourite example of this :)
Yep, player priority
Also, nice video is clear and understable
Thanks for the feedback 🙌 much appreciated
Hey Cardboard, I’m building a food deck and curious about “Giant Opportunity”. It says MAY sacrifice 2 foods. Then OTHERWISE after. Does that mean I can choose to make 3 foods for 2G?!
Yeah, effectively it says "Sac 2 foods and make a 7/7. If you don't, make 3 food." :)
@@attackoncardboardthat truly Is a giant opportunity for sure! Appreciate you clearing that confusion up.