I think the Elder position is taken turns by the Elder High Table family in the desert. It is likely the High Table was founded by Hassan-I-Sabbah during the formation of the Order of Assassins in 1090. The High Table is said to be older than the Aztecs as the Aztecs were formed in 1428. The Elder's family are likely descendants of Hassan-I-Sabbah's family.
@@forehead-l3l In John Wick Chapter 3, Sofia's former boss, Berrada, tells John about the Hashashins and the order of the assassins when talking about the Elder with John. The High Table claims to be older than the Aztecs and the Hashashins are actually older than the Aztecs in historical context.
I remember in John Wick 4 the current elder said that if he dies he will be replaced really quickly. Making it almost pointless to kill the High Table members because they already know who's going to be their replacement. But the position of the Elder does seem a little sus. Doesn't make much sense that John was able to find and kill him so easily in the new movie.
The elder in the third movie is not the same elder as in the fourth movie, he clearly says the line "My predecessor" when he refers to the elder that gave John Wick the pardon.
It’s likely just an honorary role. Who they allow to make decisions and as a tie breaker if the 12 bosses can’t agree on something, the elder is the deciding vote. And I’m thinking having to live in the desert outside of the high table’s influence is something most people don’t want to do. I can see the role as being honorary or even a punishment. I legit thought John Wick could end up being allowed to live but must be in exile and roam the desert as the new elder after seeing the opening of Chapter 4 I thought that’s where it was going.
I agree except the honorary role wouldn’t make decisions on their own. The high table makes the decision and the smoke and mirrors is the face. Kinda like the Mandarin in iron man. Just a puppet
@@mr.m2695 That makes sense, I’m thinking the old dudes around him would end up being some beast bodyguards but they were running from John Wick and the Elder was the first to go. For someone with such a high position, you’d think he’d have the most protection. John Wick had to wander the desert until near death just to see him. Now he’s chasing his men on horse back like it’s nothing.
The Elder that John Wick met in Chapter 3 is different from the Elder from Chapter 4. If there can be betrayals for seats at the High Table like the one of Santino D'Antonio for the Camorra seat, there can be betrayals for the seat of the Elder too. If an Elder made a mistake, he could be killed and replaced by another, the way it appears to have happened between Chapters 3 and 4.
Except that Santino didn't personally kill her. He hired John Wick. Which goes to say None of the elders or high table seaters can kill one another personally.
After watching your video I now believe that after the betrayal by Jihn Wick in chapter 3 by not killing Winston, the Elder was "replaced" for his lack of authority. The new one probably was related to him like the other leaders on the table. Either way, I enjoyed your thought-provoking video!
I thought the elder was like the one above all; the leader of the high table. Since everyone can be replaced, there really is no stopping the organization. John can only escape through death 😢
I think it makes sense to end the series with John becoming the new elder, everything seems to be leading to it and I think it would be a role that he would be happy with as it seems that other than a few people the elder seems to live alone. And he would be in the position to update the rules of the high table to make them less rigid and more open to passes being given because if they had been like that, to begin with then the High Table might have been willing to give John a pass for killing Santino on Continental grounds as it was Santino actions that brought about his death and the only reason John killed him on Continental grounds was because Santino tried to use the rules of the High Table to escape the consequences of the situation he caused.
Well, John wick's true intention and purpose is to completely get out of the organization. He wanted to live peacefully while cherishing her wife's memories more than ever. But circumstances doesn't allow him to be, like he's destined to be the Babayaga until he die. If you remember in John Wick 2, he almost got out because that's his deal with Santino once he finished his mission. The only problem is Santino set him up and turn John Wick into a fall guy telling the public that he won't go unpunished after what he did to Santino's sister. That's the very reason John Wick got so pissed off because Santino betrayed him and disregard his mark with him. The rest is history.
it seems like the organization started as a monarchy with leader's family being the king and some crime lords as his royal court member, as time passed organization grew and become a hybrid of monarchy and democracy. So, the king is above the table and the 12 members take decisions, but king can revert any decision he pleases.
To be honest. John Wick 4 left me empty. I was hoping it would be a war on the high table and explain more of everything. But instead it introduced more characters and more questions. While barley using the characters it already had. One thing I really wanted to know was how the high table worked. But the movie was like “you k*ll one and another will replace him” So if a crime family all gets k*lled another will replace them on the high table? It makes some sense but makes it so John can never accomplish his objective. Giving us the ending we got
Winston loves his manager job. Like the Bowery King, he is secure in his holdings and doesn't want to rise higher. While the King is expanding internationally, he is still the king of the homeless.
The Elder is probably a direct descendant of Hassan-I-Sabbah, the founder of the Hashashins and the position is always assumed by a man (or woman) who is descented from him or, since a little urban fantasy element is present in the John Wick Universe, he could be Hassan-I-Sabbah himself, having achieved immortality somehow. That's why he doesn't care about "dying" or puts up a fight. He would probably come back to life as soon as John leaves.
The new Elder clearly states that he doesn't posess John's wedding ring so... who really has it? John doesn't even insist on finding the ring and perhaps he's never intended to do so. When asked for the purpose of his "visit" John Wick simply replies "My ring" which means he is there for revenge and the Elder seems to somewhat accept it while explaining the situation.
The journey of John wick to desert reminds me of Alister Crowley’s journey to Algerian desert to meet the devil. So could the elder in the desert resemble the devil him self. Because John was told , you cant find him , he only can find you
I think he is like a king in modern Europe, he has all the power but he doesnt use it and let the high table do everything. He is more of a symbolic leader than someone who decides how the whole organisation is run
I had this idea that maybe he’s a remnant of the Order of Assassins, and their whole society and the Continental are like the culmination of the Order going underground and modernizing after they supposedly dissolved Maybe he’s the Elder because he’s a direct descendent of ancient assassins, whereas the High Table are all just crime lords
Imagine If there's an opposite organizations that also lurking in the shadow, an ancient order like Templar, having rivalry with High Table. Since the Elder itself in John Wick 2 is from the Hashashin Order of Hassan I-Sabbah.
I like and agress with the theory that the eldar is a direct descendant of Hassan I Sabbah , leader and founder of the Assassins and high table. Great stuff my guy.
If the elder we saw in part 3 is a decoy then the new elder in part 4 makes sense as the old elder could have made the deal with John without getting permission first and was delt with. If the true elder is in hiding somewhere the having them be a manager of a continental would be best as "no business can be done on continental grounds" so they'll be safe as threat of excommunication is serious to everyone, there's a lot of the worlds best assassins there so if someone goes Rogue they are there with the high tables blessing to deal with them even on continental grounds if needed and what better way to hide then to do it in plane Sight
You could tell he was a decoy. He didn’t have I’m the boss vibes or actions. He had puppet vibes which is why he lived. If he was the real one John would’ve them all
I would like to think he was very noble; and had a lifelong reverence for the law. And because he had freed up John, he had to give his own life in forfeit. Which he graciously did.
chapter 4 made me wonder, what if every person or rather every seat on the high table has its own unique role and title, and the elder isnt someone who sits above the high table but he is part of the high table and his role is essentially the law maker, he makes the laws of the high table, i thought of it because of the marquis i mean its most likely just a nick name but what if its similiar for the 12 people like that dude over there isnt 'just' "high table seat number 4" but he is the "book keeper" in charge of the history of the high table, and that chic over there is the "financer" in charge of all the funds of the high table all of them are in charge of one specific aspect that they are the highest authority on, and the elder is in charge of law making and keeping the peace within the high table, that would also explain his isolation, as the tie breaker and problem solver of the high table he only interacts with the other members of the high table when absolutely neccesary to avoid bias and or colaboration with other high table seats, similiar to a US jury is in most cases kept isolated to minimize the chance of influencing their decision by anything but the facts im probably wrong with this theory but i like it nonetheless, specifically because it gives every seat its unique niche which they control
An Elder is a member of a counsel wherein the might be other elders of differing ranks. The one who is the head is called the Patriarch or master if you read manhua. So the elder is just a representative and a symbol of the high table. Hence the no guards as a power move to show they are so powerful that they dont need. Guards. The is has his own bulletproof soldiers , of that there is no doubt.
I luv all the movies but their loyalty an honorable chart of who can be touch an not seems to change a good 4 times in each movie,, so if the elder is the head he can make them stop or bend the rules but he's still keeps the pirate code somewhat. "no honor amongst thieves" which is why we do sometimes need rules or they do absolutely become uncontrollable savages.. but everyone ain't playing fair except for John damnit 😩
everyone has to follow the rules. It's just that the villains love bending or breaking them as they won't be punished for doing so. The Marquis was winning until he decided to violate the duel and get killed.
the elder said he only has freedom in death was foreshadowing. Because the deal with the table on the duel was still honored though he previously kiiled the elder yet supposedly was killed in the duel
@Tan Jun Li he has to be right? How was it so easy to get rid this new elder? Watch John Wick 4 in the desert scene. There was a lookout person watching John chase the 3 horsemen
The reason was his life. You have to give up something in order to get something. He wasn't able to get it back (obviously) because he disobeyed the Elders orders
I believe that John wick is a response to the alchemist he is at constant odds with his personal legend and only when he agrees to fulfill his destiny as the babayaga is he pardoned by the alchemist in the desert (elder) by resisting his destiny he is killing more and higher priority targets than if he were just to serve he is a bringer of death whether he resists or not
It would be cool if The Elder’s real name was revealed in John Wick Chapter 3 and him being a descendant of the founder of the High Table (a fictional version of the Hashashin founder Hassan-i Sabbāh who was a powerful, badass, lethal, feared, and intelligent male Arab Muslim assassin turned crime lord named Ali and the very first Elder with dagger, sword, stealth, strategy, and combat skills) while The Elder is only a title that is passed down from generation to generation to the current leader of the High Table and also the current leader of a Arab Muslim crime syndicate (the first seat of the High Table which Ali was the leader of).
The elder in John Wick 3 and 4 are two different guys which is really weird cause the movies are only like 8 months apart . Really weird thing to do with no explanation
ปีที่แล้ว +1
in the movie, the new Elder says "the other was replaced so as his ring" ... why? we don´t know. But the Elder doesn´t own or rule. I thing is someone like The Harbinger
The elders are two completely different people XD. You can tell by the different voice, which meant that the elder we first met must've taken retirement or something else. Also what sounds more safer? Out in the middle of no where except for a rare few trusthworthy guards. Or an whole protected fortress where its saying "HEY IM HERE COME GET ME IM WAITING FOR MY DEATH"
The elder is the ultimate adjudicator I think. It seems likely that the elders are chosen from favored assassin families. Accordingly it seems likely that they would come from what we now call the Middle East as the high table is ancient and assassination seems to be one of their most common services if not the most common. Also the elder he killed was not the same one from the last movie.
your theory could be wrong, because on getting a token from John he decides on the spot without any delay or wait hence he definitely hold decisive power.
It sucks that in the universe it isn't the case that, The members of the high table, and the elder were in their position because they killed their way there and couldn't be defeated so easily, as if their families and such were made up of people who were the most dangerous individuals, who only let those they liked, or were as strong, to join their family. If only the concept of "high table duels" existed for the idea that if a member was ever tired of living that they could die at the hands of someone they believed to be an equal or worth of killing them (another member of the high table). Like the reason why "high table duels" were a myth (a john stated) is the fact that no one has ever tried to fight a high table member in a long long time, because of the fact the members could win in an instant. I could understand the very real possibility that one or 2 members of the high table were born into the position, or were so rich/influential that their assets afforded them the abilities to act as if they were as powerful as the greatest assassins, either through buying power or commanding it (like both D'Antonios, or the Marques), unlike someone like John Wick, who reputations was feared by his actions
The Elder is possibly a reference to The Old Man on the Mountain. The leader and founder of the Hashashins. This is not necessarily a hereditary title, but a handed down title from current Elder to his Designated no.1 man. Remember there is no guarantee of an Elder having children and 1 of those children being a No.1 man or Woman.
My thing about this movie is that we never saw the antagonist fight… I wanted to see john actually fight him to the death instead of the plot armor kill.
Despite the colorful settings, the big cast, high production costs I don't think the Wick series holds together as well as Breaking Bad and BCS. You just wait through the grim conversations for the next fight scene.
I love how the world seems so thoroughly thought out and they give us so little. Most of what we "know" is speculation. I enjoy it. I love how in the second movie, Santino has to give a number when calling in the hit. Winston calls accounts payable, too. His number is 00001. Sooooo. who is Winston?
@@vananon51 I haven't seen 4 yet. I've heard people theorize that he's really John's father but, I can't help thinking that Winston is the father of John's wife.
I believe the elder is like the monarchy of the British. They are there and have the whole respect as a main head but really do not get involved and let the seconds in command do the decision making.
Na, the real Elder is the old guy in blue on the right. He's like the Greek from The Wire - you think you're meeting the man when you're just meeting a henchman
The "Elder" is clearly a "Jinn." He exhibits supernatural abilities, and is apparently more powerful then the worlds highest ranking crime families. The clues are there. Look closely.
The ability to locate and retrieve someone who is lost, and lay dying, in the middle of the vast Sahara desert? A desert the size of the whole of the United States. How about the fresh suit of western clothing, in his size, presented to him upon his departure? If this franchise is to be kept alive it will need a supernatural element to keep things interesting. The "Elder" has to be Jinn.
I was hoping the Elder was Gonna have more screen time this time then they changed the actor the other 1 was more intimidating then they revealed his gone with John's ring
How did John could even find the elder one to kill him. I bet once you are passed out from the heat and lack of water, the dude who comes to take you to see the elder one will strip you from all your gear that you brought there to kill the man... :D
So a elder is somewhat like a president, or a king. So even if the blood line is wiped the second in command take place. If there would be another movie he will want to destroy the game not just the player.
I don't know about this theory chief. If it's historically accurate then the high table doesn't have anything to do with it. It's a faction of assassins' and they would select the leader. That's why Barada mentions "hasani" during the meeting. The high table that's been around for centuries in the movie is likely based on the real assassins' that lived a long time ago.
Its funny you didn't understand that Elders are the successor of Hashashins family. Who started the Assasins. Hassan-I-Sabbah founded it. The movie 'prince of persia' and 'Assassin creed' showed the story of Hashashines.
The identity of the leader IS KNOWN. The most "protective environment" can be destroyed with that supposed leader and the best assassins in the world won't offer the best protection. Amateurs can be unpredictable so the most "protective environment" is....not staying in one place. The Elder IS THE LEADER. The Leader is NOT a DECOY. The identity of the leader IS KNOWN because otherwise nobody would follow his orders because they wouldn't know if he was the leader or not. SEALs don't mean anything unless the person that puts the SEAL can be reached or isn't known.
I don’t think being in the middle of desert has anything to do with security, rather is to ensure they don’t corrupt their mind and judgement through endless pleasure as when you have complete power and riches, abundance lies in moderation. It’s self restraint, separating the animal mind from the human rule. Power corrupts so he surrounds himself with nothing and is celibate. Also the desert reminds you that life is sacred as it’s barren land and nothing grows, to remind the elder not to take life for granted so easily. Cause if he wanted to, he could probably end the world with nukes. So he isn’t securing himself by being in the desert, he is securing the world from his power. Nah I think the people living behind the organization are just living mundane lives. Cause security gives it away
Did anybody think that the Elder is related to the ancient group of assassins that were started in the middle east and that this were the elder comes from that family line and that hence why he is found in the Moroccan desert
I thought the elder that john kills at the beginning of john wick 4 is a different elder? doesn't he say something like "Your ring is gone, much like the elder before me"
Correct he was never the leader or real, she is. Man is just the face. Their tradition sacrifice man to keep the tradition alived through the women the women or sister that will inherit is always the real one hidden from the eye 👁️ for protection. Sanchez was just not a righteous brother or care to protect his sister/ woman legacy. Their understand, that the nation or a nation, comes through woman and their can't rebirth their daughters or birth their sons, only female can do that. I'm sure he knows and their always know , time is limited at the high table. ❤
I think he got the oil money on lock and that's why he is in charge
The only way he can have that much power.
😂😂
He’s actually African not arab. Moroccans don’t have oil money; they got Phosphate mines on the other hand
@@Mansonisthename He is culturally Arab. Even though Morocco sits in Africa. Egypt, Libya, Tunisia, Algeria and Morocco are overwhelmingly Arab.
@@juanc5149 Nah we know it's the juice that control money lol
I think the Elder position is taken turns by the Elder High Table family in the desert. It is likely the High Table was founded by Hassan-I-Sabbah during the formation of the Order of Assassins in 1090. The High Table is said to be older than the Aztecs as the Aztecs were formed in 1428. The Elder's family are likely descendants of Hassan-I-Sabbah's family.
that's my theory too , it would make sense
How can you link a fictional movie to a real life thing ?
@@forehead-l3l Easy. Just doing it
@@forehead-l3l In John Wick Chapter 3, Sofia's former boss, Berrada, tells John about the Hashashins and the order of the assassins when talking about the Elder with John. The High Table claims to be older than the Aztecs and the Hashashins are actually older than the Aztecs in historical context.
I agree, thats most likely explanation..
Elder is the one who supplies Gold for the coins. That's why he holds such power.
I remember in John Wick 4 the current elder said that if he dies he will be replaced really quickly. Making it almost pointless to kill the High Table members because they already know who's going to be their replacement.
But the position of the Elder does seem a little sus. Doesn't make much sense that John was able to find and kill him so easily in the new movie.
The elder in the third movie is not the same elder as in the fourth movie, he clearly says the line "My predecessor" when he refers to the elder that gave John Wick the pardon.
Elder 2023: your ring is gone like the elder before me
It’s likely just an honorary role. Who they allow to make decisions and as a tie breaker if the 12 bosses can’t agree on something, the elder is the deciding vote.
And I’m thinking having to live in the desert outside of the high table’s influence is something most people don’t want to do.
I can see the role as being honorary or even a punishment.
I legit thought John Wick could end up being allowed to live but must be in exile and roam the desert as the new elder after seeing the opening of Chapter 4 I thought that’s where it was going.
Shot the new elder without batting an eye. I was surprised a bit tbh.
I wish this is what happened. It would have been great if John was the elder and just chilled lol. I hated the ending.
I agree except the honorary role wouldn’t make decisions on their own. The high table makes the decision and the smoke and mirrors is the face. Kinda like the Mandarin in iron man. Just a puppet
He’s not dead tho.
@@mr.m2695 That makes sense, I’m thinking the old dudes around him would end up being some beast bodyguards but they were running from John Wick and the Elder was the first to go.
For someone with such a high position, you’d think he’d have the most protection. John Wick had to wander the desert until near death just to see him. Now he’s chasing his men on horse back like it’s nothing.
Never underestimate a man's love for his family and dog!
“My Son, how is it that you’ve become so lost” -The Elder.
The Elder that John Wick met in Chapter 3 is different from the Elder from Chapter 4. If there can be betrayals for seats at the High Table like the one of Santino D'Antonio for the Camorra seat, there can be betrayals for the seat of the Elder too. If an Elder made a mistake, he could be killed and replaced by another, the way it appears to have happened between Chapters 3 and 4.
I am confused, is john wick is in the same universe as batman or xmen?
Except that Santino didn't personally kill her. He hired John Wick.
Which goes to say None of the elders or high table seaters can kill one another personally.
started watching john wick because of the actions, stayed because of the story and the worldview
John Wick lore is just like Dark Souls lore. You can't get enough of it!
Now it has started to suck. Plot armour is too thick.
@@aniketprasad3128 He died...
After watching your video I now believe that after the betrayal by Jihn Wick in chapter 3 by not killing Winston, the Elder was "replaced" for his lack of authority. The new one probably was related to him like the other leaders on the table. Either way, I enjoyed your thought-provoking video!
Or...hear me out, the actor Saïd Taghmaoui wasn't available!?
Listen to this with eyes closed, almost as if Winston is narrating the Lore of The Elder
He sounds nothing like Winston lmao
@@yamahakid450fvery similar voices actually, just different accents
I would definitely would like to see a movie made about the elder and how he came to power
I thought the elder was like the one above all; the leader of the high table. Since everyone can be replaced, there really is no stopping the organization. John can only escape through death 😢
Different Man between Parabelum and chapter 4, the Elder says as much when John asks for the return of his ring.
I think it makes sense to end the series with John becoming the new elder, everything seems to be leading to it and I think it would be a role that he would be happy with as it seems that other than a few people the elder seems to live alone. And he would be in the position to update the rules of the high table to make them less rigid and more open to passes being given because if they had been like that, to begin with then the High Table might have been willing to give John a pass for killing Santino on Continental grounds as it was Santino actions that brought about his death and the only reason John killed him on Continental grounds was because Santino tried to use the rules of the High Table to escape the consequences of the situation he caused.
Well, John wick's true intention and purpose is to completely get out of the organization. He wanted to live peacefully while cherishing her wife's memories more than ever.
But circumstances doesn't allow him to be, like he's destined to be the Babayaga until he die. If you remember in John Wick 2, he almost got out because that's his deal with Santino once he finished his mission.
The only problem is Santino set him up and turn John Wick into a fall guy telling the public that he won't go unpunished after what he did to Santino's sister.
That's the very reason John Wick got so pissed off because Santino betrayed him and disregard his mark with him. The rest is history.
Yep and Santino knows that John is going to kill him too after he killed his sister
it seems like the organization started as a monarchy with leader's family being the king and some crime lords as his royal court member, as time passed organization grew and become a hybrid of monarchy and democracy. So, the king is above the table and the 12 members take decisions, but king can revert any decision he pleases.
An OG Hashashin descended from the ones who survived the Mongols back in the day.
He’s the leader of the assassins order and that’s why he took the ring finger as a acceptable offering
I love the elder❤❤❤. Bery calm.and relaxd man... Didn't even badge when jwick klled him in this mobi.. 😢
To be honest. John Wick 4 left me empty. I was hoping it would be a war on the high table and explain more of everything. But instead it introduced more characters and more questions. While barley using the characters it already had.
One thing I really wanted to know was how the high table worked. But the movie was like “you k*ll one and another will replace him” So if a crime family all gets k*lled another will replace them on the high table? It makes some sense but makes it so John can never accomplish his objective. Giving us the ending we got
One task he is not able to succeed
Just had a thought that Winston could possibly become an Elder , but I guess we'll see where The Continental show takes his character
Unlikely. He’s making counterfeit coins as well as other continentals. There’s a reason for this and they haven’t touched on it yet
Isn't The Continental supposed to be a prequel to John Wick
@@mr.m2695 I forgot about that lol
@@fearless3073 we saw it happening in Casablanca, ny, and few other places John went. They were secretive about it too.
Winston loves his manager job. Like the Bowery King, he is secure in his holdings and doesn't want to rise higher. While the King is expanding internationally, he is still the king of the homeless.
I like that they are building the world as they go along
The Elder is probably a direct descendant of Hassan-I-Sabbah, the founder of the Hashashins and the position is always assumed by a man (or woman) who is descented from him or, since a little urban fantasy element is present in the John Wick Universe, he could be Hassan-I-Sabbah himself, having achieved immortality somehow. That's why he doesn't care about "dying" or puts up a fight. He would probably come back to life as soon as John leaves.
Yeah... That's definitely not true considering bro was already replaced in Chapter 4
@@jackcassidy9963 nah you don't understand what he said 💀
The new Elder clearly states that he doesn't posess John's wedding ring so... who really has it? John doesn't even insist on finding the ring and perhaps he's never intended to do so. When asked for the purpose of his "visit" John Wick simply replies "My ring" which means he is there for revenge and the Elder seems to somewhat accept it while explaining the situation.
I thought he did pick it up from the new Elder
The journey of John wick to desert reminds me of Alister Crowley’s journey to Algerian desert to meet the devil. So could the elder in the desert resemble the devil him self. Because John was told , you cant find him , he only can find you
I think he is like a king in modern Europe, he has all the power but he doesnt use it and let the high table do everything. He is more of a symbolic leader than someone who decides how the whole organisation is run
I had this idea that maybe he’s a remnant of the Order of Assassins, and their whole society and the Continental are like the culmination of the Order going underground and modernizing after they supposedly dissolved
Maybe he’s the Elder because he’s a direct descendent of ancient assassins, whereas the High Table are all just crime lords
Imagine If there's an opposite organizations that also lurking in the shadow, an ancient order like Templar, having rivalry with High Table. Since the Elder itself in John Wick 2 is from the Hashashin Order of Hassan I-Sabbah.
@@DilanPolii templar worst nightmare is assassin's 💀
I like and agress with the theory that the eldar is a direct descendant of Hassan I Sabbah , leader and founder of the Assassins and high table. Great stuff my guy.
If the elder we saw in part 3 is a decoy then the new elder in part 4 makes sense as the old elder could have made the deal with John without getting permission first and was delt with.
If the true elder is in hiding somewhere the having them be a manager of a continental would be best as "no business can be done on continental grounds" so they'll be safe as threat of excommunication is serious to everyone, there's a lot of the worlds best assassins there so if someone goes Rogue they are there with the high tables blessing to deal with them even on continental grounds if needed and what better way to hide then to do it in plane Sight
You could tell he was a decoy. He didn’t have I’m the boss vibes or actions. He had puppet vibes which is why he lived. If he was the real one John would’ve them all
Perhaps the Elder is a descendent of the founders of the Hashashin?
I would like to think he was very noble; and had a lifelong reverence for the law. And because he had freed up John, he had to give his own life in forfeit. Which he graciously did.
John wick will comeback for his ring
chapter 4 made me wonder, what if every person or rather every seat on the high table has its own unique role and title, and the elder isnt someone who sits above the high table but he is part of the high table and his role is essentially the law maker, he makes the laws of the high table, i thought of it because of the marquis i mean its most likely just a nick name but what if its similiar for the 12 people like that dude over there isnt 'just' "high table seat number 4" but he is the "book keeper" in charge of the history of the high table, and that chic over there is the "financer" in charge of all the funds of the high table all of them are in charge of one specific aspect that they are the highest authority on, and the elder is in charge of law making and keeping the peace within the high table, that would also explain his isolation, as the tie breaker and problem solver of the high table he only interacts with the other members of the high table when absolutely neccesary to avoid bias and or colaboration with other high table seats, similiar to a US jury is in most cases kept isolated to minimize the chance of influencing their decision by anything but the facts im probably wrong with this theory but i like it nonetheless, specifically because it gives every seat its unique niche which they control
An Elder is a member of a counsel wherein the might be other elders of differing ranks. The one who is the head is called the Patriarch or master if you read manhua. So the elder is just a representative and a symbol of the high table. Hence the no guards as a power move to show they are so powerful that they dont need. Guards. The is has his own bulletproof soldiers , of that there is no doubt.
I luv all the movies but their loyalty an honorable chart of who can be touch an not seems to change a good 4 times in each movie,, so if the elder is the head he can make them stop or bend the rules but he's still keeps the pirate code somewhat. "no honor amongst thieves" which is why we do sometimes need rules or they do absolutely become uncontrollable savages.. but everyone ain't playing fair except for John damnit 😩
everyone has to follow the rules. It's just that the villains love bending or breaking them as they won't be punished for doing so. The Marquis was winning until he decided to violate the duel and get killed.
the elder said he only has freedom in death was foreshadowing. Because the deal with the table on the duel was still honored though he previously kiiled the elder yet supposedly was killed in the duel
If you paid attention in the movie. There was a look out person for the Elder in the desert. That make time for real elder to leave.
You mean the john wick 3 elder still alive?
@Tan Jun Li he has to be right? How was it so easy to get rid this new elder? Watch John Wick 4 in the desert scene. There was a lookout person watching John chase the 3 horsemen
@@keithmacdonald357 the lookout person was this elder in john wick 4 that is killed he maybe is just a servant only.
John wick may the next Elder
funny thing is that John cuts off his finger and gave the previous Elder his ring for basically no reason
The reason was his life. You have to give up something in order to get something. He wasn't able to get it back (obviously) because he disobeyed the Elders orders
Could always buy a finger transplant
I believe that John wick is a response to the alchemist he is at constant odds with his personal legend and only when he agrees to fulfill his destiny as the babayaga is he pardoned by the alchemist in the desert (elder) by resisting his destiny he is killing more and higher priority targets than if he were just to serve he is a bringer of death whether he resists or not
John Wick is not dead but has taken up the mantle of the Elder secretly and is living in the desert
Nah, John Wick wanted nothing to do with the assassin life. Dying was closure for him to be with his wife again.
He is most likely from the Bedouin tribe. One of the oldest people in the known world, therefore they never take roots in one place.
Really my only complaint with the film. He had to kill 3 dudes on horseback to kill the high elder. That's all the guards this dude had?
we are made to believe that John went back to Morocco, blew through everyone he didn't kill in JW3 and simply traced the path back to the Elder.
It would be cool if The Elder’s real name was revealed in John Wick Chapter 3 and him being a descendant of the founder of the High Table (a fictional version of the Hashashin founder Hassan-i Sabbāh who was a powerful, badass, lethal, feared, and intelligent male Arab Muslim assassin turned crime lord named Ali and the very first Elder with dagger, sword, stealth, strategy, and combat skills) while The Elder is only a title that is passed down from generation to generation to the current leader of the High Table and also the current leader of a Arab Muslim crime syndicate (the first seat of the High Table which Ali was the leader of).
The elder in John Wick 3 and 4 are two different guys which is really weird cause the movies are only like 8 months apart . Really weird thing to do with no explanation
in the movie, the new Elder says "the other was replaced so as his ring" ... why? we don´t know. But the Elder doesn´t own or rule. I thing is someone like The Harbinger
The elders are two completely different people XD.
You can tell by the different voice, which meant that the elder we first met must've taken retirement or something else.
Also what sounds more safer? Out in the middle of no where except for a rare few trusthworthy guards. Or an whole protected fortress where its saying "HEY IM HERE COME GET ME IM WAITING FOR MY DEATH"
The elder is the ultimate adjudicator I think. It seems likely that the elders are chosen from favored assassin families. Accordingly it seems likely that they would come from what we now call the Middle East as the high table is ancient and assassination seems to be one of their most common services if not the most common. Also the elder he killed was not the same one from the last movie.
Funny how the only head shots are from John Wick
I think the Elder is another position in high table that can easily be replace by anyone.
The Elder that was killed in John Wick 4 was NOT the same Elder that we seen in John Wick 3 ......if you was paying attention.
John Wick is the new elder ....
Well the leader of the high table got a cap in his ass in JW4 at the start of the movie.
your theory could be wrong, because on getting a token from John he decides on the spot without any delay or wait hence he definitely hold decisive power.
I think The Elder that John Wick got directed to was a decoy.
It sucks that in the universe it isn't the case that,
The members of the high table, and the elder were in their position because they killed their way there and couldn't be defeated so easily,
as if their families and such were made up of people who were the most dangerous individuals, who only let those they liked, or were as strong, to join their family.
If only the concept of "high table duels" existed for the idea that if a member was ever tired of living that they could die at the hands of someone they believed to be an equal or worth of killing them (another member of the high table).
Like the reason why "high table duels" were a myth (a john stated) is the fact that no one has ever tried to fight a high table member in a long long time, because of the fact the members could win in an instant.
I could understand the very real possibility that one or 2 members of the high table were born into the position, or were so rich/influential that their assets afforded them the abilities to act as if they were as powerful as the greatest assassins, either through buying power or commanding it (like both D'Antonios, or the Marques),
unlike someone like John Wick, who reputations was feared by his actions
I feel the decoy theory makes a LOT of sense. Him being just some guy out in the desert hardly protected.
John Wick himself is the Elder😊
I have a question. Is it possible that Viggo, from the first movie, was a member of the high table?
The high table sounds like Luck Lucianos commission.
The Elder is possibly a reference to The Old Man on the Mountain. The leader and founder of the Hashashins. This is not necessarily a hereditary title, but a handed down title from current Elder to his Designated no.1 man. Remember there is no guarantee of an Elder having children and 1 of those children being a No.1 man or Woman.
My thing about this movie is that we never saw the antagonist fight… I wanted to see john actually fight him to the death instead of the plot armor kill.
The first one
And to be fair, it doesn’t make sense for any antagonist to straight up fight the boogey man
The Elder is a reference to the Old Man of the Mountain, a title given to the person who trained the Hashishins
Despite the colorful settings, the big cast, high production costs I don't think the Wick series holds together as well as Breaking Bad and BCS. You just wait through the grim conversations for the next fight scene.
I love how the world seems so thoroughly thought out and they give us so little. Most of what we "know" is speculation. I enjoy it.
I love how in the second movie, Santino has to give a number when calling in the hit. Winston calls accounts payable, too. His number is 00001. Sooooo. who is Winston?
He’s....(watch the final scene of John Wick 4 before the credits)...
@@vananon51 I haven't seen 4 yet. I've heard people theorize that he's really John's father but, I can't help thinking that Winston is the father of John's wife.
@@allamericanslacker2378he tells Winston to take him home at the end of movie ,
Winston replies: ok son 😮
@@troykinnison4575no, he says "of course!"
Elder is from generation of assasyns oh hashashin group, he mentioned in a scean that the organization belongs to hasan sabbah
First! Great to see another vid from you!
I think the Elders have a similar role to someone like the Queen/King of England.
The Elder is exactly what he needed to be to justify Wick murdering a bunch of guys in the Continental with Charon lol nothing more, nothing less
I believe the elder is like the monarchy of the British. They are there and have the whole respect as a main head but really do not get involved and let the seconds in command do the decision making.
Na, the real Elder is the old guy in blue on the right. He's like the Greek from The Wire - you think you're meeting the man when you're just meeting a henchman
His not dead . John lives on!!
The video start at 11:00
I honestly mistook The Elder in the thumbnail for a live-action Johnny Joestar attempt. Must have been the colors.
the john wick game is gonna be sick
Good.
Ive been waiting for a sequel to The Matrix Path Of Neo
The best question is How can you become the elder ?
John Wick will become the elder.
@@bruceownwayne9553about that
@@bruceownwayne9553 watch John Wick 4.
Winston perhaps become neo elder..
By Allahu Akbaring and surviving
So cool
The elder is the Oldman of the mountain leader of the ancient assassination cult the Hashan.
The "Elder" is clearly a "Jinn." He exhibits supernatural abilities, and is apparently more powerful then the worlds highest ranking crime families. The clues are there. Look closely.
Whats a jinn?
@@gusfring8405 middle eastern ghost or devil, the genie in Aladdin was based on one
@Tom-ej8eg Interesting.. What are the clues?
The ability to locate and retrieve someone who is lost, and lay dying, in the middle of the vast Sahara desert? A desert the size of the whole of the United States. How about the fresh suit of western clothing, in his size, presented to him upon his departure? If this franchise is to be kept alive it will need a supernatural element to keep things interesting. The "Elder" has to be Jinn.
Thank-you 💙
The only thing we know is John Wick killed the elder yet was still given freedom after the duel with Cain.
I was hoping the Elder was Gonna have more screen time this time then they changed the actor the other 1 was more intimidating then they revealed his gone with John's ring
How did John could even find the elder one to kill him. I bet once you are passed out from the heat and lack of water, the dude who comes to take you to see the elder one will strip you from all your gear that you brought there to kill the man... :D
So a elder is somewhat like a president, or a king. So even if the blood line is wiped the second in command take place. If there would be another movie he will want to destroy the game not just the player.
I think John Wick isn’t over, we still wanna know with the rest of high table, or perhaps they need to make sequel before John Wick became baba Yaga
I think john wick 5. The elder from john wick 3. Will want johns body. Or something like that. 👍
I don't know about this theory chief. If it's historically accurate then the high table doesn't have anything to do with it. It's a faction of assassins' and they would select the leader. That's why Barada mentions "hasani" during the meeting. The high table that's been around for centuries in the movie is likely based on the real assassins' that lived a long time ago.
Its funny you didn't understand that Elders are the successor of Hashashins family. Who started the Assasins. Hassan-I-Sabbah founded it. The movie 'prince of persia' and 'Assassin creed' showed the story of Hashashines.
I always thought the TH-camr Not Another Cooking Show chef looks like this guy. Lol
The identity of the leader IS KNOWN. The most "protective environment" can be destroyed with that supposed leader and the best assassins in the world won't offer the best protection. Amateurs can be unpredictable so the most "protective environment" is....not staying in one place. The Elder IS THE LEADER. The Leader is NOT a DECOY. The identity of the leader IS KNOWN because otherwise nobody would follow his orders because they wouldn't know if he was the leader or not. SEALs don't mean anything unless the person that puts the SEAL can be reached or isn't known.
I don’t think being in the middle of desert has anything to do with security, rather is to ensure they don’t corrupt their mind and judgement through endless pleasure as when you have complete power and riches, abundance lies in moderation. It’s self restraint, separating the animal mind from the human rule. Power corrupts so he surrounds himself with nothing and is celibate. Also the desert reminds you that life is sacred as it’s barren land and nothing grows, to remind the elder not to take life for granted so easily. Cause if he wanted to, he could probably end the world with nukes. So he isn’t securing himself by being in the desert, he is securing the world from his power. Nah I think the people living behind the organization are just living mundane lives. Cause security gives it away
Is the High Table above the Government around world? or are the Governments corrupted by the High Table?
Did anybody think that the Elder is related to the ancient group of assassins that were started in the middle east and that this were the elder comes from that family line and that hence why he is found in the Moroccan desert
I thought the elder that john kills at the beginning of john wick 4 is a different elder? doesn't he say something like "Your ring is gone, much like the elder before me"
is the high table have also a high chair?
Correct he was never the leader or real, she is. Man is just the face. Their tradition sacrifice man to keep the tradition alived through the women the women or sister that will inherit is always the real one hidden from the eye 👁️ for protection. Sanchez was just not a righteous brother or care to protect his sister/ woman legacy. Their understand, that the nation or a nation, comes through woman and their can't rebirth their daughters or birth their sons, only female can do that. I'm sure he knows and their always know , time is limited at the high table. ❤
Interesting. Who was the actor?? That's his big break
why would you talk about part four without warning there are spoilers,,,,thats messed up