I mean wows dungeon queues are abysmal as dps so u get a lotta people queuing as tanks cuz they just wanna get in at least armor has levels so those mythic dungeons can’t be accessed by people who buy lvl 70s u gotta play a buncha dungeons n raids before u can touch the harder difficulty spikes and even at lvl 70 if u are not on mythic raids they r pretty easy anyone can do em.
@@allan293-f8cwhy I picked holy I used to be a Druid healer but Druids do everything so mediocre I just opted to go DPS with them and spec a more tank heavy or more heal centric class for that reason the Jack of all trades thing made Druids really lackluster in certain departments
I think it will effect the mid level tanks for sure at least on the less self sufficient tanks I think bear/dk/brew players wont notice the change much
Are you gonna do a video on Brewmaster WAs and UI stuff? I will be tanking for the first time for my friend group and plan on playing Brew and would be interested to see what stuff you like to track. I saw your tweet about Vivify tracker!
As a healer, I enjoy mechanics where I have to heal the tank every once in a while. I do not like constantly babysitting a tank, there’s a reason I don’t play classic. Wild changes to make so soon to launch
It is a hard back and forth, you want some influence over the tank but not all I think the only exception to this design should be bdk because it's literally made that way
Man I quit for 4 months in S1 of SL due to how badly I hated tanking during that time. Hope it’s not a repeat. Kiting to tank and live isn’t fun. I’m taking the stance this time of let’s see how this turns out week to week.
YOooo. you reminded me of SL S1 , when DH was N1 just because he could tank while runing and keep aggro. What a joke this game has become when the best tank in the game is the one who can run from mobs :)))
Well...i hope your talking about "how blizzard has missed the goal" doesnt take them to nerf again hard. Tanknerfs will affect the casual Gamer. Not Pros. This is something that has to be kept in Mind!
Honestly, I'm surprised we didn't hit a 2 tank meta at any point (sans a few times where you'd have resto druids do early trash as bear or boomy then tp out to go resto for bosses), granted s3/s4 aug is kind of a halfway point between bringing a 2nd healer or 2nd tank (in some ways, even bringing better defensives than either of those can). I think they could consider reducing scaling on incoming damage in keys (i.e. mobs do 8% more damage per key level, but still gain 10% hp). That would also help handle some of the problems with aug, healing, tanking, and everything being a 1-shot without a defensive up. A lot of these problems stem from dps checks being more trivial than surviving.. I also really don't like how it's now just optimal to time out your death strikes every 4 gcds or so and that you're actively losing mitigation by putting them closer together, but I don't know how else they balance out modern blood dk where DRW and the flood of resources it brings is practically a state of being to fire off immediately before you lose a usage instead of a cooldown to think about.
If Blizzard balances the dungeons, the raids, all the talents they have invalidated with these changes, reduces the defensives on the dps characters down to the lowest common denominator, and adjusts healer mana to actually make them consider which spell to best heal with. Sure.... they could make it work. Somehow, I doubt that is all going to happen. Instead tanks who refuse to stop tanking will figure out how to work around this nonsense, while most of the rest will just quit. The game will lose people, people wll be upset at long queues, and blizzard will most likely fail to actually tune much of anything. They won't take defensives away from dps, so as people get better gear into the season the damage dps can take will go up to the point where key levels will require tanks to kite. Seeing the high level tanks kiting will filter down the ladder (even if it isn't needed) and make more and more of the tanks that are left start to mimic the kiting strategies and people will get more upset because NOBODY likes that. At the point where their season has been ruined, Blizzard will start rebuffing tanks and trying to salvage what they have done. Everyone who has a memory longer than a gerbil knows exactly how blizzard works and can see where this goes. But, as the tank that faired the best in this shlacking, I don't doubt that Brewmasters are kinda happy about this.
@@Gumblethebear the max hp aura is almost negligble at this point, but they still bring great direct buffs to tanks and healers, as long as there is 1 op dps for them to buff and carry the timer, they will continue to rrat their way into keys while doing 60% of a real dps because they bring like 5 group defensives. And even if the timer is tight, it'll often be easier to bring aug and pull bigger instead, but if they do any less damage than they do now they'll be actually unplayable for 95% of players instead of just however useless they already are outside keeping the group alive.
I thought tanks were gonna be broken beyond repair cuz I was watching marcellian&flame tank grim batol as either prot spec, and turns out that the first boss tank buster isn’t blockable and leaves a bleed, so that was a very unfortunate coincidence.
This is gonna hurt mid players which is the bulk of the game. I've already watched some of my buddies who play around like 2k-3k io and they were struggling very hard. If they just nerf damage then whats the point of decreasing survivability? They are one in the same. They need to adjust damage taken patterns / scaling if they want tanks / healers to have a fun experience.
You're right it will hurt mid level players I think it only hurts on half the tanks though, bear dk brew got very little effected esp in the mid lvl range
@@Equinoxmonk but why hurt the mid level players, isint it the biggest part of the player database?, i mean i must be playing brew completely wrong ive mained brew for 5 years and dont get me wrong im no equinox. but ive tried a couple of necrotic wake +6 level on beta now and im struggling real bad. so much so im pretty much convinced ill not be maining brew this time around and play a dps role, depending on if this shit goes live currently!
I think Blizzard should put the damage that healers are "supposed" to do and give it to tanks to make them feel like they are doing more for the group besides self healing. Healers could then go back to mainly healing with dispel/interrupt/stop duties. The best healers could still try to do damage at the highest ends if they wanted/needed.
it will only make things worst, people dont like when tank does the same damage as the dps Plus Healing is fine with how they deal dps right now, removing it will only make more boring for most, the real issues is how the fights works for heals
Maybe I'm just not a good player but healing keys last night and tankng a few I couldn't really tell the difference other than my major cooldowns duration on my tanks being shorter
I recently wrote a comment on one of your videos that it was a private wish of mine that they'd take a chunk of defensive power out of the heals & absorbs and put it into stagger ... WELP. THANKS BLIZZ! But yeah I'm nervous. I don't have a ton of faith in the designers, and the expansion really isn't very far off. Clock is ticking.
last expacs were fine , like who asked for those changes ? why would they hit tanks as a result of this ? give healers what they want not remove tanks fun from the game , just reduce the healing or increase the ammount of slow damage a dps can take , what an unhinged balance this expac , its a damn fiesta , the expac overall announcement seemed so good with exactly what we wanted , df m+ was good exept affixes , they just removed so many tank playerbase , nobody like to rely on random pug heal, the tank is the main pillar of the dungeons , if he dies everyone dies , pugs are gonna be so painful this expac.
Watching the great push finals, I heard the casters respond to healer deaths with “that’s ok they don’t really need a healer at this point…” I think the adjustments were important, maybe they missed on execution but they had the right vision
Is it obvious to you that dead healer should always be a insta wipe? It’s not the case for the dps, so i don’t actually see a problem with you not needing a healer for 20% of a boss when the boss is literally done with all mechanics?
The nerf is ok, at least for Blood DK. We will feel a hit in the last 29 days of Dragonflight, but we will be stronger than now with the San'Layn talents. We will have so much more runic power because of Viscreal Regeneration, that alone brings Deathstrike almost back to where it is now. Then the additional healing from Vampiric Strike and Vampiric Aura, and we get a Bloodbeast as a cherry on top (We can play around this ability like we did with Bronn). I ran the numbers and I am completely relaxed about the changes. Maybe I'll grab some popcorn on the weekly reset and enjoy the crying people that don't understand whats happening.
@@Dilllll26 I like both playstyles. Deathbringer has much more dps potential, but you need the right stats to utilize it. San'Layn is just insanely strong from a defensive standpoint, no matter what gear you have. Lets see, if we need it after we geared up a bit, and lets see, what the first balancing patches in TWW bring...
I felt the same way watching tanks in streams. It didn't seem like anything changed. It seems like they're just going to change in small increments until it's too late though. Reminds me of the 3 Ashen Hallow nerfs that didn't kick HPal out of the meta. Just too slow and steady.
Feels like most of the comments didn’t even watch the video and are just being doomers… why is it so odd that the healer is now expected to actually heal role that is expected to take damage? Isn’t it a bit counter intuitive that the healer can completely ignore the health bar of the role that takes the most damage… the thing a healer is supposed to… ya know… fix? It’s a GROUP activity, being entirely self reliant shouldn’t be looked at as “ideal gameplay”. I agree it is a bit odd that they are willing to address the tank portion of the healing problem, and not the dps having way too many defensive tools. But both are problems
because like most dev teams they absolutely suck at balancing their game. look no further than these changes across the board they made tanks feel worse and didnt achieve their goals. they made these changes when mechanics in dungeons are already nuking tanks so they have no idea if their balancing will even be correct since the dungeons themselves arnt balanced lmao. its just insanity.
We did watch the video and no we aren't just being doomers. I typically pug to about 3400 and I agree, this does make healers have to heal and makes tanks need to better their play. It isn't counter intuitive at all either. Tanks "tank" the damage. They are sturdy and require the least amount of healing. In a community where you have a tank shortage and a healer shortage, increasing the difficulty of these roles is going to discourage a lot of people from playing. Tanks are a single-point failure in keys currently. If your tank goes down, your pull is essentially over. Now healers are also that. You are introducing more single-point failures into a 5 man group which isn't good for learning. Making tanks overpowered allows chill groups to make mistakes, including the healer, and still be stable enough to recover. DF season 1 was a prime example about healing. Melandrus and The Raging Tempest both destroyed unskilled healers and pugging a 15-20 key was way more difficult then other keys.
@@Torswan i agree tanks should "tank" the damage. The difference is they seem to be going for tanks absorbing or mitigating the damage so that is it manageable for the group to handle. Currently tanks just seems to be this void where damage goes to disappear and entirely be handled by 1 person whether or not the rest of the group is even still alive. Being able to solo a boss cause the rest of your group got bursted down doesn't seem like great game design to me. My hope is that with these changes we can actually go more towards a rot damage style rather than burst. Something similar to HoI third boss which is more enjoyable to heal cause it feels like you're actually managing things rather than just making sure the DPS health bar is full. They won't achieve this without addressing DPS defensives and offhealing, but we have to start somewhere (even if tanks are less problematic, but take what we can get i guess). It would definitely be a failure if we don't see any dungeon tuning after changes such as these. But starting from player power and then adjusting dungeon power to match is not much different than nerfing dungeons and then having to nerf classes cause they are just too strong now for the damage profile they are looking to achieve. My argument isn't that these changes entirely by themselves are good, but that what it gives healers and what it will encourage from an encounter design perspective is the positive part.
blood dk feels horrible now. they completely failed at the goals they set of making the class less spiky. in fact with the nerfs to blood shield it makes the spikyness even worse than ever. so no blood dk is not in an ok spot. it might be ok in your eyes from a play perspective but from the devs perspective they failed and i fear what they are going to do next. just a quick edit adn side note. if your bar for sucess is set so low as to say "as long as they avoid a season one shadowlands situation i think we will be in a good spot." is such a horrifying low goal that its kinda sad.
Gonna just disagree on dk, doing 12's/13's (on beta) on it the spikiness isn't that bad especially for how the class is designed. You would need a significant mitigation rework to solve that issue on BDK
@Equinoxmonk but that wasnt what they wrote their goal as. Their goal is smooth out the damage spikeyness and take away thenself sustain so that healers have the power. From that point of view, that means dk is a failure and needs alot more adjusting and i really fear for what that means for this class in particular and tanking in general. Are we just all going to be playing monks/warriors by the end of their goals?
@Equinoxmonk one thing i dont get is if their goal was to smooth out damage then why would the nerf blood shield. Doing that basically makes the mastery worthless and makes the hp more spiky.
@@Equinoxmonkit simply feels worse to play tho. I was tanking +12 no aug before changes easy then tried one last night on just 11 and I’m dying more Tbf beta lag doesn’t help so that could be why
@evolburd5768 blood dk is more or less roughly the same, you are overstating the impact of the blood shield nerf. Before the nerf: Blood shield capped at 100% HP Tanks had roughly 5-6Mil That means Blood Shield capped at: 5-6Mil. Blood Shield After Nerf: HP pools were buffed by 60%. This means health pools went from 5-6Mil to 8-9.6Mil Blood shield cap was nerfed from 100% HP to 50% HP - but health pools were increased Therefore, Blood Shield after nerf: 4Mil to 4.8Mil Blood shield went from capping at 5 to 6Mil to 4 to 4.8Mil. If you are playing correctly in hard difficult you barely will notice it. Math doesn’t lie. I understand you are mad tanks were nerfed, but throwing out incorrect information won’t help
I think this kinda evens out pvp I was surprised at how easy DK was with heart slash just restoring all ur health at any percent was a necessary nerf, I think these nerfs are okay because it will make pvp more even just cuz ur a tank u shouldn’t have unfair advantages over all squishy casters I don’t think casters should be better then tanks or even that the game needs perfect balance just if PvP could be a bit more even, and there weren’t really abysmal classes for dps like any class could be viable in PVE
Use to be a mythic Brew raider. Got burnt out and just wanted to play casually. I already can tell this will make taking much harder for me. When I tank, I want to TANK the damage and not get deleted in a second. I remember when tanks could sustain alot of damage. Was a good time
Why touch the overall tankiness when the goal was to drastically reduce self heal? Keep the DR and increase stamina.. Edit: Oh, you wanna pug? You gotta be one of the 3/6 tanks that are viable. Good design wut
I think that's a good point, self heals was more of the issue on tanks living forever, increasing base mitigation and tankiness while removing self heals would emphasize the "damage smoothing" and removing spikes.
idk why people are mad at the idea tanks need a nerf. The fact the fastest keystones in the world have no healer for the first half of the key should not be allowed.
That is not just because of tanks that is because of stops being so strong and dps being able to off heal without losing dps (priest druid and shaman) and then we have mage with a 20% hp shield for the whole group this is more damage reduction then all the other group damage reduction in the game and those are on 3min cd and mass barrier is on a 2min(it has been nerfed to 3 now) And if Arcane is meta mage spec it is a 30% damage reduction
You are talking about .001% my guy. They need to fix healing not kill tanks. Tanks don’t want to kite all season. Mark my word s1 is kite season it is dumb
It’s never been just about them getting nerfed. It’s about blizzard lacking nuance in doing this kinda shit and fucking some way more than others. Prot paladin is fucking dead after these nerfs, it’s not even funny. Blizzard does not deserve anyone’s faith when it comes to balancing. Their track record is fucking miserable.
I think people including myself just reacted too aggressively towards it, I think as long as dungeons and raids are designed with the philosophy in mind I'm good with it
@@Equinoxmonk Well class level changes like this are commonly added in pre patch that is next reset. The expansion launches in 1 month. Based on them taking 3 expansions to revert 1 change done to prot paladin i do not have high hopes. But yes if things are balanced around it this will work out the trust in blizzard doing that though is not existing.
Sorry equinox I hate to break it to you but you are uninformed and wrong. Reddit told me that all tanks are dead, no one will play tank and next expac is over gg go next. (/s just incase)
7 mil HP and DPS estimated in millions... Well, hello Legion numbers again.
Yep legion till midnight
I worry that the changes will affect the midcore tanks. The people who dabble as tanks. The people whom live and breath tank will figure it out.
This, people most affected by these nerfs will be the casual and midcore players.
No man. They will affect 100% all the healers. The healer will become one of the hardest/stressful spec to play right now.
I mean wows dungeon queues are abysmal as dps so u get a lotta people queuing as tanks cuz they just wanna get in at least armor has levels so those mythic dungeons can’t be accessed by people who buy lvl 70s u gotta play a buncha dungeons n raids before u can touch the harder difficulty spikes and even at lvl 70 if u are not on mythic raids they r pretty easy anyone can do em.
@@allan293-f8cwhy I picked holy I used to be a Druid healer but Druids do everything so mediocre I just opted to go DPS with them and spec a more tank heavy or more heal centric class for that reason the Jack of all trades thing made Druids really lackluster in certain departments
I think it will effect the mid level tanks for sure at least on the less self sufficient tanks I think bear/dk/brew players wont notice the change much
hi nice vid got a question for brew monk theyr is a difference for 2 hands weapons or 1 hand ?
Are you gonna do a video on Brewmaster WAs and UI stuff? I will be tanking for the first time for my friend group and plan on playing Brew and would be interested to see what stuff you like to track. I saw your tweet about Vivify tracker!
thank god finally a good vid with only 4mins explanation instead of 30mins wasting your time
Thanks for feedback
I see Equinox's new video, and I click.
AMEN
As a healer, I enjoy mechanics where I have to heal the tank every once in a while. I do not like constantly babysitting a tank, there’s a reason I don’t play classic. Wild changes to make so soon to launch
then play hybrid dps and help out every once in a while
Tanks are now glorified healing target dummies. We will have to kite all season, this sucks.
It is a hard back and forth, you want some influence over the tank but not all I think the only exception to this design should be bdk because it's literally made that way
They didn’t nerf only the tanks they nerfed also the other sub classes. DK DS it isn’t used only by Blood DKs
I didn't think of that actually thank you for mentioning
For dps dk‘s it doesn’t change I think. Cause you generally wouldn’t deathstrike twice in 5s as dps anyway
Doesnt matter. Kill buff is untouched and if you spam ds youre doing it wrong
Man I quit for 4 months in S1 of SL due to how badly I hated tanking during that time. Hope it’s not a repeat. Kiting to tank and live isn’t fun. I’m taking the stance this time of let’s see how this turns out week to week.
YOooo. you reminded me of SL S1 , when DH was N1 just because he could tank while runing and keep aggro. What a joke this game has become when the best tank in the game is the one who can run from mobs :)))
Well...i hope your talking about "how blizzard has missed the goal" doesnt take them to nerf again hard. Tanknerfs will affect the casual Gamer. Not Pros. This is something that has to be kept in Mind!
I hope they don't overshoot the nerf and makes tanks feel useless/bad
Honestly, I'm surprised we didn't hit a 2 tank meta at any point (sans a few times where you'd have resto druids do early trash as bear or boomy then tp out to go resto for bosses), granted s3/s4 aug is kind of a halfway point between bringing a 2nd healer or 2nd tank (in some ways, even bringing better defensives than either of those can).
I think they could consider reducing scaling on incoming damage in keys (i.e. mobs do 8% more damage per key level, but still gain 10% hp). That would also help handle some of the problems with aug, healing, tanking, and everything being a 1-shot without a defensive up. A lot of these problems stem from dps checks being more trivial than surviving..
I also really don't like how it's now just optimal to time out your death strikes every 4 gcds or so and that you're actively losing mitigation by putting them closer together, but I don't know how else they balance out modern blood dk where DRW and the flood of resources it brings is practically a state of being to fire off immediately before you lose a usage instead of a cooldown to think about.
I really appreciate your takes Equinox, thank you for having concise feedback instead of rage dooming without actually trying anything.
Thank you guys for the support it means a lot to me
Hoping the "Kiting Fiesta" is not coming back
Thinking about rolling brew as my tank alt. Heard you were one of the best. +1 sub
my main problem with PTR is i can't decide if i wanna main blood or brew kek
I'm on the EXACT same boat as you! Let me know what you decide
@@incronaut i'm leaning towards bdk, unlocking earthen, leveling an earthen brew to see what clicks more...
Hey brother great content What are your Meta predictions after these nerfs?
He says it in the video my guy
Was waiting to hear from you over this. Love the way you look at things.
BfA brew is an old nostalgic memory for me, in feel and how it played. I miss my old weakaura that called me an idiot if CB was under 2 seconds
If Blizzard balances the dungeons, the raids, all the talents they have invalidated with these changes, reduces the defensives on the dps characters down to the lowest common denominator, and adjusts healer mana to actually make them consider which spell to best heal with.
Sure.... they could make it work.
Somehow, I doubt that is all going to happen. Instead tanks who refuse to stop tanking will figure out how to work around this nonsense, while most of the rest will just quit. The game will lose people, people wll be upset at long queues, and blizzard will most likely fail to actually tune much of anything. They won't take defensives away from dps, so as people get better gear into the season the damage dps can take will go up to the point where key levels will require tanks to kite. Seeing the high level tanks kiting will filter down the ladder (even if it isn't needed) and make more and more of the tanks that are left start to mimic the kiting strategies and people will get more upset because NOBODY likes that.
At the point where their season has been ruined, Blizzard will start rebuffing tanks and trying to salvage what they have done. Everyone who has a memory longer than a gerbil knows exactly how blizzard works and can see where this goes.
But, as the tank that faired the best in this shlacking, I don't doubt that Brewmasters are kinda happy about this.
Oh, and, hope you all love seeing Aug in every group.
Already refunded my prepurchase, blizz were kind they gave it to me even tho I used the free month and the mount LOL
@@Gumblethebear the max hp aura is almost negligble at this point, but they still bring great direct buffs to tanks and healers, as long as there is 1 op dps for them to buff and carry the timer, they will continue to rrat their way into keys while doing 60% of a real dps because they bring like 5 group defensives.
And even if the timer is tight, it'll often be easier to bring aug and pull bigger instead, but if they do any less damage than they do now they'll be actually unplayable for 95% of players instead of just however useless they already are outside keeping the group alive.
@@shaso567 The timers are only tight if you're dying........
Is Human the new fotm?
No i just like the mog looks
The majority will see it as a nerf and just do something else.
That's a fair take
I thought tanks were gonna be broken beyond repair cuz I was watching marcellian&flame tank grim batol as either prot spec, and turns out that the first boss tank buster isn’t blockable and leaves a bleed, so that was a very unfortunate coincidence.
Yea that boss claps if ur not dwarf or have evoker
This is gonna hurt mid players which is the bulk of the game. I've already watched some of my buddies who play around like 2k-3k io and they were struggling very hard.
If they just nerf damage then whats the point of decreasing survivability? They are one in the same. They need to adjust damage taken patterns / scaling if they want tanks / healers to have a fun experience.
You're right it will hurt mid level players I think it only hurts on half the tanks though, bear dk brew got very little effected esp in the mid lvl range
@@Equinoxmonk but why hurt the mid level players, isint it the biggest part of the player database?, i mean i must be playing brew completely wrong ive mained brew for 5 years and dont get me wrong im no equinox. but ive tried a couple of necrotic wake +6 level on beta now and im struggling real bad. so much so im pretty much convinced ill not be maining brew this time around and play a dps role, depending on if this shit goes live currently!
I think Blizzard should put the damage that healers are "supposed" to do and give it to tanks to make them feel like they are doing more for the group besides self healing. Healers could then go back to mainly healing with dispel/interrupt/stop duties. The best healers could still try to do damage at the highest ends if they wanted/needed.
it will only make things worst, people dont like when tank does the same damage as the dps
Plus Healing is fine with how they deal dps right now, removing it will only make more boring for most, the real issues is how the fights works for heals
Maybe I'm just not a good player but healing keys last night and tankng a few I couldn't really tell the difference other than my major cooldowns duration on my tanks being shorter
Doesn't mean you're not good, everyone has different skill levels and different problem sets so different ranges of players will feel changes more
Thank you for throwing in the quick tier list!
Of course :)
Spot on Equinox. As always. Thank you.
Appreciate you
I recently wrote a comment on one of your videos that it was a private wish of mine that they'd take a chunk of defensive power out of the heals & absorbs and put it into stagger ... WELP. THANKS BLIZZ!
But yeah I'm nervous. I don't have a ton of faith in the designers, and the expansion really isn't very far off. Clock is ticking.
Leave monk alone! Or at least make brew good in PvP. 😸
I just hope pally is not forgotten. I really think they need some help
I hope pally receives big buffs soon
For the minimal content a majority do i dont think they will notice.
Those pushing high keys or mythic raid will probably notice though
Every dk will notice
last expacs were fine , like who asked for those changes ? why would they hit tanks as a result of this ? give healers what they want not remove tanks fun from the game , just reduce the healing or increase the ammount of slow damage a dps can take , what an unhinged balance this expac , its a damn fiesta , the expac overall announcement seemed so good with exactly what we wanted , df m+ was good exept affixes , they just removed so many tank playerbase , nobody like to rely on random pug heal, the tank is the main pillar of the dungeons , if he dies everyone dies , pugs are gonna be so painful this expac.
No one asked for them tbh besides more classic or old school players. Just a sudden philosophy shift tbh
@@Equinoxmonk Who cares what classic andys want, they don't play retail
Thanks for the level headed take
Blizzard needs to tune dungeons properly before implementing any more tank changes.
Tanks need to be able to take a lot of damage and self heal because healers now are focusing on their dps. It's now a mindset.
Watching the great push finals, I heard the casters respond to healer deaths with “that’s ok they don’t really need a healer at this point…” I think the adjustments were important, maybe they missed on execution but they had the right vision
Is it obvious to you that dead healer should always be a insta wipe? It’s not the case for the dps, so i don’t actually see a problem with you not needing a healer for 20% of a boss when the boss is literally done with all mechanics?
The nerf is ok, at least for Blood DK. We will feel a hit in the last 29 days of Dragonflight, but we will be stronger than now with the San'Layn talents.
We will have so much more runic power because of Viscreal Regeneration, that alone brings Deathstrike almost back to where it is now. Then the additional healing from Vampiric Strike and Vampiric Aura, and we get a Bloodbeast as a cherry on top (We can play around this ability like we did with Bronn).
I ran the numbers and I am completely relaxed about the changes. Maybe I'll grab some popcorn on the weekly reset and enjoy the crying people that don't understand whats happening.
Think deathbringer is just better tho, tankiness and dmg wise (maybe not gameplay tho)
@@Dilllll26 I like both playstyles. Deathbringer has much more dps potential, but you need the right stats to utilize it. San'Layn is just insanely strong from a defensive standpoint, no matter what gear you have. Lets see, if we need it after we geared up a bit, and lets see, what the first balancing patches in TWW bring...
Visceral Regeneration? The Sanlayn hero talent that got changed to Visceral Strength weeks ago?
I felt the same way watching tanks in streams. It didn't seem like anything changed. It seems like they're just going to change in small increments until it's too late though. Reminds me of the 3 Ashen Hallow nerfs that didn't kick HPal out of the meta. Just too slow and steady.
I think small increments is good, just can't go too far
Feels like most of the comments didn’t even watch the video and are just being doomers… why is it so odd that the healer is now expected to actually heal role that is expected to take damage? Isn’t it a bit counter intuitive that the healer can completely ignore the health bar of the role that takes the most damage… the thing a healer is supposed to… ya know… fix? It’s a GROUP activity, being entirely self reliant shouldn’t be looked at as “ideal gameplay”. I agree it is a bit odd that they are willing to address the tank portion of the healing problem, and not the dps having way too many defensive tools. But both are problems
because like most dev teams they absolutely suck at balancing their game. look no further than these changes across the board they made tanks feel worse and didnt achieve their goals. they made these changes when mechanics in dungeons are already nuking tanks so they have no idea if their balancing will even be correct since the dungeons themselves arnt balanced lmao. its just insanity.
We did watch the video and no we aren't just being doomers. I typically pug to about 3400 and I agree, this does make healers have to heal and makes tanks need to better their play. It isn't counter intuitive at all either. Tanks "tank" the damage. They are sturdy and require the least amount of healing.
In a community where you have a tank shortage and a healer shortage, increasing the difficulty of these roles is going to discourage a lot of people from playing. Tanks are a single-point failure in keys currently. If your tank goes down, your pull is essentially over. Now healers are also that. You are introducing more single-point failures into a 5 man group which isn't good for learning.
Making tanks overpowered allows chill groups to make mistakes, including the healer, and still be stable enough to recover. DF season 1 was a prime example about healing. Melandrus and The Raging Tempest both destroyed unskilled healers and pugging a 15-20 key was way more difficult then other keys.
@@Torswan i agree tanks should "tank" the damage. The difference is they seem to be going for tanks absorbing or mitigating the damage so that is it manageable for the group to handle. Currently tanks just seems to be this void where damage goes to disappear and entirely be handled by 1 person whether or not the rest of the group is even still alive. Being able to solo a boss cause the rest of your group got bursted down doesn't seem like great game design to me.
My hope is that with these changes we can actually go more towards a rot damage style rather than burst. Something similar to HoI third boss which is more enjoyable to heal cause it feels like you're actually managing things rather than just making sure the DPS health bar is full. They won't achieve this without addressing DPS defensives and offhealing, but we have to start somewhere (even if tanks are less problematic, but take what we can get i guess).
It would definitely be a failure if we don't see any dungeon tuning after changes such as these. But starting from player power and then adjusting dungeon power to match is not much different than nerfing dungeons and then having to nerf classes cause they are just too strong now for the damage profile they are looking to achieve.
My argument isn't that these changes entirely by themselves are good, but that what it gives healers and what it will encourage from an encounter design perspective is the positive part.
@@The7IQGenius i agree with this 100%
blood dk feels horrible now. they completely failed at the goals they set of making the class less spiky. in fact with the nerfs to blood shield it makes the spikyness even worse than ever. so no blood dk is not in an ok spot. it might be ok in your eyes from a play perspective but from the devs perspective they failed and i fear what they are going to do next.
just a quick edit adn side note. if your bar for sucess is set so low as to say "as long as they avoid a season one shadowlands situation i think we will be in a good spot." is such a horrifying low goal that its kinda sad.
Gonna just disagree on dk, doing 12's/13's (on beta) on it the spikiness isn't that bad especially for how the class is designed. You would need a significant mitigation rework to solve that issue on BDK
@Equinoxmonk but that wasnt what they wrote their goal as. Their goal is smooth out the damage spikeyness and take away thenself sustain so that healers have the power. From that point of view, that means dk is a failure and needs alot more adjusting and i really fear for what that means for this class in particular and tanking in general. Are we just all going to be playing monks/warriors by the end of their goals?
@Equinoxmonk one thing i dont get is if their goal was to smooth out damage then why would the nerf blood shield. Doing that basically makes the mastery worthless and makes the hp more spiky.
@@Equinoxmonkit simply feels worse to play tho. I was tanking +12 no aug before changes easy then tried one last night on just 11 and I’m dying more
Tbf beta lag doesn’t help so that could be why
@evolburd5768 blood dk is more or less roughly the same, you are overstating the impact of the blood shield nerf.
Before the nerf:
Blood shield capped at 100% HP
Tanks had roughly 5-6Mil
That means Blood Shield capped at: 5-6Mil.
Blood Shield After Nerf:
HP pools were buffed by 60%.
This means health pools went from 5-6Mil to 8-9.6Mil
Blood shield cap was nerfed from 100% HP to 50% HP - but health pools were increased
Therefore, Blood Shield after nerf: 4Mil to 4.8Mil
Blood shield went from capping at 5 to 6Mil to 4 to 4.8Mil.
If you are playing correctly in hard difficult you barely will notice it. Math doesn’t lie. I understand you are mad tanks were nerfed, but throwing out incorrect information won’t help
I think this kinda evens out pvp I was surprised at how easy DK was with heart slash just restoring all ur health at any percent was a necessary nerf, I think these nerfs are okay because it will make pvp more even just cuz ur a tank u shouldn’t have unfair advantages over all squishy casters I don’t think casters should be better then tanks or even that the game needs perfect balance just if PvP could be a bit more even, and there weren’t really abysmal classes for dps like any class could be viable in PVE
Only paladin xD
surely blizzard sees posts like this and just nerfs us again
This did kill tanks. Long time tank… no tank wants to queue just to kite mobs all day in fear of getting deleted.
Did you even watch the video? Kiting is not necessary at all
That's fair, I think the mark they hit right now doesn't cause that effect but it can happen
@@lonzie it will be necessary.
@@lonzie I’m playing beta… if you pull medium to large packs you’re toast.
@@Daddyfinger6feels like he forgets he probably plays with aug and other world class players. For us pluggers this will be horrible
Use to be a mythic Brew raider. Got burnt out and just wanted to play casually. I already can tell this will make taking much harder for me. When I tank, I want to TANK the damage and not get deleted in a second. I remember when tanks could sustain alot of damage. Was a good time
Where was the promised prot pal cope video. I guesa blizz loves destroying ny main.
As always the average joe has to suffer due to the 0.1%
Sorry :(
Why touch the overall tankiness when the goal was to drastically reduce self heal? Keep the DR and increase stamina..
Edit: Oh, you wanna pug? You gotta be one of the 3/6 tanks that are viable. Good design wut
I think that's a good point, self heals was more of the issue on tanks living forever, increasing base mitigation and tankiness while removing self heals would emphasize the "damage smoothing" and removing spikes.
idk why people are mad at the idea tanks need a nerf. The fact the fastest keystones in the world have no healer for the first half of the key should not be allowed.
That is not just because of tanks that is because of stops being so strong and dps being able to off heal without losing dps (priest druid and shaman) and then we have mage with a 20% hp shield for the whole group this is more damage reduction then all the other group damage reduction in the game and those are on 3min cd and mass barrier is on a 2min(it has been nerfed to 3 now)
And if Arcane is meta mage spec it is a 30% damage reduction
You are talking about .001% my guy. They need to fix healing not kill tanks. Tanks don’t want to kite all season. Mark my word s1 is kite season it is dumb
It’s never been just about them getting nerfed. It’s about blizzard lacking nuance in doing this kinda shit and fucking some way more than others. Prot paladin is fucking dead after these nerfs, it’s not even funny. Blizzard does not deserve anyone’s faith when it comes to balancing. Their track record is fucking miserable.
I think people including myself just reacted too aggressively towards it, I think as long as dungeons and raids are designed with the philosophy in mind I'm good with it
@@Equinoxmonk Well class level changes like this are commonly added in pre patch that is next reset.
The expansion launches in 1 month.
Based on them taking 3 expansions to revert 1 change done to prot paladin i do not have high hopes.
But yes if things are balanced around it this will work out the trust in blizzard doing that though is not existing.
Sorry equinox I hate to break it to you but you are uninformed and wrong. Reddit told me that all tanks are dead, no one will play tank and next expac is over gg go next. (/s just incase)
You are just wrong
thank you so much for the informative comment!
The philosophy is there but the numbers need to be tuned a bit.
pretty much blizzards SOP. they have good ideas but their implementation is absolutely dogshit and causes more problems than they solve.
Exactly, just needs constant adjusting
Bro how can you sit here and say tanks got buffed lol?? This is a wild ass take
they did