People fail to understand this. The reason League of Legends is so toxic is because you can buy a new botted level 30 ranked-ready account for literally $1.00.
Absolutely true. Dawn Gate made this process harder because botting without interaction didn't give you enough EXP to progress to 30 in any meaningful amount of time. This meant that account sellers needed to run the bots for longer and it cut into their overall pay over time. Better system than league by far.
I said 'sorry I fucked that' in a lol game and after literally like 5 chill lines after. Got chat warning contested it and cause i dropped the f bomb even against me the chat warning was valid
@@max7971people like you are the reason mobas are toxic hellholes. If you aren't a dick people will like you. If you are a dick you become that guy nobody likes. That's everybody on mobas, because of that self-centered "I don't _owe_ you anything" mindset you seem to think is acceptable. I've seen plenty of people apologizing online. _Because all parties involved are humans._ The anonymity of the internet is not an excuse, being an asshole still makes you an asshole.
It was genuinely the most fun I ever had in a MOBA. And of course EA didn't even let it get through beta OR allow fans to keep it alive. Actually disgusting.
@@Neselman21 Very unlikely. Gamers want to have fun. Trust each other. Play together. Toxicity tends to bring the worst out of people and lead to loneliness and paranoia as you cant trust anyone. Watched that multiple times on all different kinds of Servers. When the mods are overwhelmed by toxicity and give up all the good players leave or minimise their interaction with other players. The resulting playerbase is destructive against new players and harms the game long term as it only attracts even more toxic players
The one time I turned a toxic situation around in League, it was with a team that was super angry at each other because our first game went badly, saying some really heinous shit. So I told them to put up or shut up. Convinced all four of my angry, arguing teammates to queue up one more time, all in the same roles, same champs, and see what happens. "If the loss REALLY wasn't your fault, then you'll have no problem spending 20 minutes and proving it." We had a hard-fought 35 minute victory. By the 20 minute mark, everyone was on the same side. No arguing, no yelling, no mean comments when someone died or made a mistake. Just callouts, compliments and even some banter. We ended up queuing up together a few more times after that. Last time I heard from them, two of them had become good friends and were actually planning to room together at the same college. I still think about it sometimes and feel proud of myself.
I had a somewhat similar interaction. I played a lot of off meta picks, some I made up and found a decent amount of success with. A lot of those games start with people on my team seeing my pick and flaming me, inting, or both. Had one time the jungler was accusing me of intentionally throwing the game with my pick, I told him to put up or shut up. He apologized the first time I rotated to dragon and helped him with it. Another time where I was practicing with old Graves, trying out triforce on him back when it still had AP on sheen. I was doing poorly and my team would not stop flaming me. That was until I finished triforce and immediately scored a quadra with it. They shut the f up after that.
i had a game last night and both teams were flaming each other. we ended up having our jg 1 v 1 their top laner by baron pit while everyone else watched. my jg got slapped then everyone based and continued the game this was in ranked as well
Reminds me a bit of older MMOs, where community mattered more, and your reputation followed you. By no means perfect, but you found it chilled a lot of people out, and made them want to work together because there was a hit to your ability to progress if everyone hated you.
WoW Before the Servers became essentially pointless. Used to be huge server communities and reputations. People knew everybody, especially on the smaller servers. Didn't matter which side you were on.
And then there were the agents of chaos who actually did everything in their power to grief everyone they met, but because they were relatively rare and so committed to their craft it felt like a genuine part of the roleplaying experience. Dudes were just the villains of the story and did it better than any NPC ever could.
@@Nuvizzle Griefer on Ursin was basically legendary for being a KOS Undead Rogue. If it was red, it was dead, and he'd often do it to lure out other high level Alliance players for him to fight. Brought about some legendary open World PvP that did, complete with scout reports on his last known where abouts.
Definitely feel this. Everquest was like that. If you were a jerk then everyone on the server knew, or at least your level cohort, and it would become impossible to group/level/raid.
I played since season 1 until literally this year. I never seen anyone apologize, they're more likely to run it down than apologize or even play. I'm too damn old to deal with it, anymore.
Saw someone apologize once in like 11 years. He flamed me for not following him to a stupid dragon call, which i called him out on. He was typing to me later for not ashe hawking a dragon so he could steal with smite so my friend started bashing him for it, but I typed "no hes right its fine". Communication was 10x better after that and after making a massive comeback he was like "mb for the flame bro" Only apology I've ever seen in league to this day.
I started in S1 and ended in S4. A few people apologize, it wasn't massively rare now on my NA smurf, everyone behaves like an absolute bellend, and Gold players on NA were Bronze players on EUW It's so bizarre how EUW and NA differ. doubt you get many apologies there.
My first time playing Insurgency Sandstorm I had a level thousand in my lobby and thought, "well this is going to be toxic." I ran out of ammo and got killed on the reload. The dude messaged me with tips for saving ammo and just staying alive and it almost made me tear up coming from toxic games like call of duty and R6. Never thought the gaming community could be so understanding ESPECIALLY in a FPS
I apologized to someone after an M+, explained that it has been a hell of a week and I'd just lost my dad to suicide and took it out on them without thinking. Ended up grouping with them a few times over the next few months and they always asked how I was that day
Environment attracts and repels certain types of people, too. There are plenty of good people who don't get transformed by game design into jerks. If game design "makes" you a jerk, you already wanted to be one.
@@TuhljinTampergaugeIt's not about being a jerk. For example. Imagine you can enter a certain activity once a week and only once a week. Game progression is designed in a way that if you fail it you significantly fall behind for the next 5 weeks. And this activity allows only a limited amount of players in at once. Then if all players have a boost from previous weeks they can skip portions of mechanics and make finishing activity way easier. You can absolutely bet that people would form closed groups and allow no new players to join, unless they cleared it multiple times and have an active boosts. People who clear it every week may or may not act as an elitist jerks, people who get regected may or may not despise clearing group. But either way it breeds division and toxicity. If you scale down some elements of design community problems may scale down with them over time. But amount of stoic good people can not change the whole game community, a lot of gamers will silently avoid drama and just prioritise their fun (or a small amount of time to relax after a stressful day) over somebody else's desire to play/engage. That's why it's on game designers to avoid negative engagement instruments like lockouts and designed balancement issues and griefing mechanics.
I saw it happen once in Smite, dude had a stroll of bad luck with match after match after match, day in, day out, of absolute garbage. He was fed up, he was cranky, he insulted us simply for not having the ability of foresight. We lost the match and he apologized cause the match really didn't go that bad, it was an even match. We could have reported him, but we didn't, he reflected on his behavior and thought "man i was a prick", he even said so. He apologized and that's it, and apology goes a long way. If we did report him, he would have gotten a 2 week suspension. However, this was one time, never have i seen anyone apologize ever again.
I see alot of people use vvs in smite, but the problem with voice lines saying sorry, as opposed to typed interactions, is that people often interpret them as sarcastic
Dawn Gate was such a good game. The mechanics, the lore, the itemization, the characters were all so good. Frankly I'm still not over it, and I don't think I will ever be. It touched on actual mature subjects and didn't oversimplify them.
I apologized once in LoL for a failed engage and got 3 people piling on me for fucking up. All that taught me was to turn off chat. Which then drove me away from competitive multiplayer games for years. People are exhausting.
I always found doubling down on the apology worked well. So after you say “MB that didn’t work” and they pile on you continue with “Yeah absolutely dog**** of me, just report me at the end guys, I deserve it”. Guaranteed they stop. Nobody wants to listen to the depressive self abuse, and the people looking for an argument aren’t getting their fix.
@@vectoralphaSecbeing in my 40s I never got into multiplayer games. And I hate the trend towards online multiplayer. I've think I played GTA online once in its early days and l lasted about ten mins. Also few years before that I tried a single game for FIFA online. Just some kid screaming at me. My kids in the other hand, the lads play FIFA online almost 100% and my daughter is in was on MC servers, and then moved over to Roblox, she has meant some good longtime friends. And run into the odd weirdo.
As an ex Overwatch player they messed up more than just player power when it came to endorsements. Even if you did great it was so easy to forget to endorse because you would have to pull up the tab to endorse between queue which is when most people afk. There were so many times I realized i forgot to endorse a support or just a player I thought derived it. Also the rewards just sucked even in the higher tiers it never felt rewarding to hit such a thing let alone if you weren't an E-girl or popular streaming tier 5 would derank to fast to maintain for a meaningful amount of time.
The deranking was brutal and in ow2 you couldn't endorse everyone usually people did the support and tank never dps. My dps was level 1 endorsement my support was 4
Yeah playing overwatch is the equivalent of playing league of legends, toxic, sweaty no matter what gamemode you play quickplay being the sweatiest mode, and a lot of ppl suffering from the dunning kruger effect, plus it's free so little kids are playing too which is fine until they start acting like that as well
Also people often endorse based on how well you play. So you can be the nicest person in the world, but you're gonna get reported rather than endorsed if you had a bad game. Toxic people use endorsements in a toxic way.
Dawngate was by far the BEST moba ive ever played in my life , and im a grand master in LOL but man... i miss that game so much, hope that someone pick up that project and take it to the glory it deserves.
It was really sad the year that almost all online games stopped moderating. I remember even League of Legends had a tribunal thing where if you had reported enough people who were toxic then riot would give you a title basically saying you were a tribunal person. And I remember getting on there and I would read tons of things to vote on they let you see chat logs and everything and you could vote whether or not someone should get a temp ban or a perma ban. That only lasted a few months and they took it all down.
If I remember correctly, around 90% of the people that did tribunal would just randomly click ban or forgive and not read anything in order to get the reward that was tied to it faster. The results from the tribunal was basically useless and RNG if people would actually get banned.
This could have been easily solved if people were tricked into taking test tribunals where it's obvious if a ban is necessary or not, and if their answer is wrong then it means that person is incompetent or just not reading the chat log. And these tests could be intermittently done so that they can remove players from tribunals if theh ever start just not reading the chat. Trivial fix but no one implemented it.
Tribunal didn't work out because they offered rewards for doing it and people would just run through all their tribunal cases and click the punish button without reading what happened. Yes Riot could've mitigated this and done things better, but this is Riot we're talking about. They tried the Tribunal because it seemed like the easiest solution that required the least work on their part, the moment it was obvious it wasn't working they dropped it like they usually do.
We really need more developers like him.. Finally someone understands how a community is a big part of a game. And it needs to be taken care of. New games rather gifts toxic people, not punishing them.
You are delusional if you think that developers cater to “toxic” people, or reward them in any way. The moderation is downright invasive, the bans are instant and automated, and Thor is unironically advocating social credit score. How is this not enough for you?
Honestly, the last time I heard someone apologise, I was playing with a really passionate Russian dude, me and my best friend didn’t take the toxicity too seriously bc it was a lot of ‘your mum is x’ so I just started telling back saying ‘ITS WINNABLE, WERE A TEAM BRO, WE GOT THIS’ full screaming into my microphone, about 15 minutes later we started making a full comeback and we just hear this Russian dude sheepishly like “I… I’m sorry for what I said about your mother…” and I was just “ITS ALL GOOD BRO, WE’RE A TEAM, RIDE OR DIE HOMIE!” And he just perked right up and started yelling and being passionate again. Honestly my most wholesome moba experience ever
I think this is a vastly underappreciated aspect of competitive games. Studies have proven that people can perform better, and stay in flow states for longer with cooperative and positive teammates. So putting in a system that would diminish toxic people's progress in competitive climb, would legitimately raise the skill ceiling of online multiplayer games. This what I think the next big step in competitive gaming that we need to take.
ok but the ranked climb is supposed to be based on skill level, winning and losing. If you let anything else affect rating, you'll have inflated/deflated ratings, players won't trust the ladder because of that, and worst of all, it could also affect matchmakings ability to create balanced matches.
@@3eve0nthink pick up basketball, and trash talk. It’s popular and it works. It makes people win or lose bc it’s insufferable. Do you really want that?
@@Onlyg0d you know what's more insufferable? Having a teammate that's only at your rating because they're nice, so they have no idea what they're doing and are completely useless to the team to the point you might as well be playing down a person the whole time. This system is great when applied to basically anything but a ranked ladder, but when put into that context specifically, this is the sort of scenario it creates. Sorry mate, but I'll take balanced matches over people maybe being a little less toxic any day of the week.
@@3eve0n I assumed you wouldn’t get promoted for being nice. I just assumed you’d get banned for being a jerk. Would you at least agree with that being a good idea?
Just started playing iracing and it’s basically the same system. The only way to rank up is to be a safe driver so it’s really common to see people apologize after doing something dumb so they don’t get reported for intentionally causing a wreck.
This, exactly. Iracing and other sims are trying to go that path, which is waaaaaaay less toxic than other "competitive" online games. Enjoy the drive brother
I was too young at the time to care about ranked and was too scared of it after my experience on league, but I miss dawngate so much. I had so much fun on Fenmore. The shorts on Dawngate really make me miss those days.
“When was the last time you saw someone apologize in a MOBA?” The last time I played one, and it was me apologizing. I kinda lost my shit with my teammate on League of Legends 2v2 Arena and then realized I was being rude and blame-y and said “my bad man, I’m rusty as hell so I’m sure it’s mostly my fault. Sorry for being a dick.” We still lost that game, but we were homies by the end of it, and kept a positive attitude with each other, voting positively for each other in the postgame. It’s never too late to stop being a dick. And no, that wasn’t an intentional Quantumania quote. But it’s true.
Just because I like to poke at the seams, I'll say this: Losing in ranked matches (if you don't care about your rank too much, that is) - gives you easier opponents. Therefore gives you a sense of power. So, contrary happens. Being a jerk, afking, losing on purpose - gives you power. Can that be fixed? Probably not. Unless you like, actually do tie your power to your 'not being a jerk'. Huh. I guess the title doesn't lie.
Agreed, but this system solves even that. Because there's fewer people in ranked, due to the grind, and the fact that the people in ranked are disinclined to get banned or reported, people intentionally losing would get caught a lot faster, and get banned a lot faster.
F1 (the racing game) did something a kind of equivalent to this in racing, which I find improved the game so much. Each player gets assessed a safety rating and you can only enter matches with other players of the same safety rating. So if you win races by running others off the track, you end up playing in races that resemble bumper cars and if you actually drive well you play in high quality races.
Instead riot removes any form of communication so players eat up their frustration and let it out in gameplay since that doesnt get punished anyway. This year i was 10 times more toxic gameplay wise, because simply chatting got me flagged somehow (most "offensive" was "did drake kill you?" or sth like that). Since they also refuse to balance their game in a healthy manner i finally was able to uninstall and ive never been happier all my life (ive played the game since i was 9 lel)
So, the real question, how old are you? The 9 years old... lel.. has me spinning. Did you pick up the game a month ago, or 8 years ago? Genuinely confused.
a big notice telling me i can find part 1 and 3 in the description. this guy did play through whole life. he understands EVERYTHING important ... incredible
To an extent.... And then you realize that playing with friends crippled your progression. Or maybe you just don't want to be extra talkative that day. It's not a bad idea, but it's kinda weird to punish people for playing with their friends
Implemented Psychology 101, determine what you want from the person, engineer the system back from that. I learned this in communication class, the final was "get someone to do something during a presentation." My presentation was as a pretend gumball machine salesman, during my "pitch" I had a gumball machine on stage and invited everyone to use it, while I handed out quarters. Most everyone went up to the machine, and I basically bought an A on my final for about 7 dollars.
@@JACpotatos I assure you, you didn't have to be talkative. People were happy to honor you after the game as long as you weren't a jerk. It basically worked the opposite of how honoring works in League, instead of only honoring if you thought someone particularly deserved it you simply didn't honor someone you didn't think deserved it.
I find it funny how nice some people can be in EFT and it is not because they gain anything from being nice. It is because they know what the struggle for new players is like and have sympathy for the newbs.
That's genuinely why the game is filled with trashy rat b.s and people wanting to co op over fighting. Pre voip was amazing. Everyone killed everyone as it should be.
I miss Dawn Gate so much, beautiful graphics, interesting character design. EXCELLENT player interaction system and one of the most creative and creativity-rewarding item systems in any MOBA
I was once toxic to someone and then apologized i was just frustrated. You can tell most the players never played organized team sports. In actual sports you up your game when a homie is having a bad game and he will do the same. In video games everyone acts like theyre always perfect theyignore their mistakes. In ow2 there was almost always something i could have done in a team fight. Now injust play path of exile, minecraft, and Crusader Kings 3 though indont even mess with other games everything is sooo toxic its not even worth it
Forcing people to be nice not because thats us what they feel like being but rather out of fear doesnt really sound great. Id rather have more genuine honest reactions even if its toxic
Openly toxic behavior is preferable to soft inting. At least I can mentally check out of the game if someone admits they'll run it down unlike someone pretending to have a bad game that isn't reportable
I don't even know what I just heard... Literally my brain can't comprehend someone apologizing in a multiplayer game, much less a moba. Why did I tear up and get angry and happy all at once? You short circuited my brain.
I'd rather deal with fake politeness over honest rudeness, they are not people who you are gonna be part of your life, so who cares if they are being fake?
Yeah, I don't see how this system wouldn't just be gamed by all the players, they would all have as secret agreement to always give everyone else a positive vote, then everyone gets power and the whole system becomes meaningless.
@@Arjay404Maybe, maybe it devolves into a griefing engine. Without empirical evidence, I think it's just self-indulgent to pretend that you've "solved" toxicity.
@@asonofliberty3662it's not that you couldn't, but if player power/progression is tied to kudos, if you want to not be penalized and level at a glacial pace, you have to play solo queue for even the opportunity to level faster. A five stack that always plays together progresses at the same rate as the most toxic player alive.
You usually get party bonuses in these games AND idk what psychopath can tell their friend "i don't want to play with you, i want my good person bonus"
These comments are kind of fascinating. I'm sure a lot of it is because I don't play ranked, but I apologize when I do something dumb that affects my team and usually the response I get is just "all good" or something to that effect. Once you start calling out your own mistakes, other people are more likely to do the same with theirs, too. Being aggressively kind and supportive in chat has a really positive effect in a lot of matches, too. Interrupting the negative feedback loops that happens with infighting can easily swing a game back in your favor and untilt the tilted. And when that fails, League has had fantastic mute options for a long time now. If you don't use them, that's on you.
Dude I LOVED Dawngate, it was such an amazing game and had such an amazing team working behind it. I'm forever sad that it was killed before it even had a chance because I genuinely believe that if EA gave it the time it needed it would have been bigger than LoL.
Thats how I met one of my best friends on siege. A friend of mine and I were waiting for others to get online so we just ran unranked. We were just messing around on attack and rushed, 2 other teammates followed us in for the quick push and we killed all except 1 and we had one guy left on our team. This guy was TERRIBLE, he was slowly moving through the map unable to find objective. Finally my friend and I went into game chat and started talking a little trash, nothing crazy just telling him to follow the markers in your face bot. He turned a corner and ran into my claymore, the man froze in place, we could hear the gears turning in his brain before he took out a pistol to try and silently shoot the claymore. We started dogging on him hard about shooting friendly stuff 😅🤣🤣. He then turns on his mic and says "guys please im sorry I dont know how to play this game yet, my girlfriend just got me the game thinking I might like it so im trying to figure out whats gonng on" 🤣🤣🤣🤣 we immediately started laughing and then apologized ourselves and added him to teach him the game. The man ended up being a good player on our ladders team 🤣🤣
This used to happen in Final Fantasy XI. The game by itself was hard enough and almost impossible to progress solo, you always needed a party but if your personal reputation was a bad one, no one would party with you and you were stuck forever.
This is what I want for social media. I used to do a lot of role-play, as well as sponsor art, on Twitter, which is difficult, because that platform isn't made for it and it's too easy to make a new account and pretend to be someone else (in fact, that's the point for role-play). But if you had a Twitter-like website and you made it so that you have to receive positive reviews for your art or your role-play, then you can build up your karma over time and that 'verifies' you as a real person, rather than just a bot.
I had an experience playing Counter Strike for the first time (I'm 44 and don't usually play FPS). I joined a match, I didn't know it was ranked, and obviously I was playing very badly, and the other players started swearing at me. So I said, "Hey, it's not my fault. I just got here, I decided to try this game and I didn't know it was this competitive, give me a break. Haven't you ever been a noob? And, incredibly (we're talking about Brazilian players here), they understood, apologized to me, and started teaching me, from the basics, with all patience, and even praised me when we won a match. That made an impression on me, it made me believe that it's possible to overcome toxicity.
I actually remember talking to a guy on league once. They kept flaming me for being a bad jungle and I kept flaming them for blaming me on their lost lane. Eventually I muted and told them Id talk to them post game and explain why they were wrong. Game finishes and we lost, I sent them a friend request afterwards and asked if they wanted to discuss the situation. After a lot of toxic back and forth we both ended up admitting our mistake, apologized and even became friends since we realized that the other person wasnt actually that bad of a guy.
WoW needs this more than ever. Probably their most required feature for player retention. Pugs (namely Timewalking) are especially bad. Possibly worse than League these days.
I made a friend of a friend cry one time on LoL because I forgot it was her shitting up my lane as support. I *was* a bit harsh in my words, but she ignored pings and advice and was confrontational. She ended up quitting that game and leaving me to solo bot lane. Within a few minutes I got my first solo double kill, and 10-15 minutes later I got a solo quad and we won. I did later apologize to her and we ended up being good friends for a while afterward.
This applies to most competitive game. I was highest rank in csgo and valorant back in the day and most games were just good vibes. It's only in the lower ranks that people are toxic.
Lineage 2 Karma system was great. You could kill anyone at any time, but if you did you became free to kill (and drop items) until you leveled off the karma points
There was a beautiful time when it felt like Overwatch was going to be the “non-toxic” online game. It was so easy to find a couple chill people to group up with and just grind for a few hours every night. Maybe you didn’t keep in touch or form relationships with a lot of the people you played with, like WOW, but that almost made it more special. You could group up with some strangers, have fun kicking ass together, say GG and probably never speak again.
This is my i loved final fantasy 11 so much when it started. Leveling required a party. If you were a toxic player... Everyone learned who you were, no more parties.. and you were screwed. Bc dying caused you to lose a little xp.. you could even de-lvl if you died enough.. Nicest ppl in an mmo ever...
A similar concept of this worked in Final Fantasy 11. That game you needed other players to succeed. There was no matchmaking function. You had to interact with people and if you were a dick, the server very quickly learned. You had to be nice to find groups willing to play with you and with how brutal that game was in terms of time and progression, people just actively tried to avoid confrontation for the sake of not wasting time.
netrek had this. taking orders and getting to a position or executing the order got you more points towards advancing rank getting access to better ships and ultimately getting to control/summon a starbase. if you go off on your own and dont be a team player you dont advance fast at all.
I just flat out don’t need everyone to be nice to each other. I actually enjoy the chaos of the old days when absolutely no steps were taken to curb any sort of behavior. I’m generally nice, but it just doesn’t bother me when others aren’t. A bit of ridiculous shit talk is fun sometimes too.
It’s kind of a reflection of life, that being nice will take you further than being a jerk. I could see some quite elaborate mechanics with game effects and NPC’s being responsive to user attitudes, which could be a very positive reflection of reality and the consequences of misbehaving. Maybe that’s a reality check that is developmentally positive for the younger players. The resulting kinder atmosphere is also probably much better for the psychological well being of our youth. It might even save lives.
Dota 2 did this quite well with the behaviour score. I maintained my behaviour score at 10,000 (the highest) and hardly ever had bad games due to toxic team mates. Every now and then I'd be surprised with someone being an asshole or acting immaturely, and at the end of the game it would always be because it was a "Mixed behaviour scores" game and everyone would be like ohh there we go.
I had a guy apologizing to me in league one time, it was an enemy, I don't even remember what exactly he said, something about one of his teamates that was losing lane, I answered with "he is using his time to have fun in a game, you are the idiot acting like it's work" and the guy really gave an apology, I didn't expected it at all, it was surreal. That was the one time it happened in 8 years of league.
Dawngate was the moba that made me switch from League. I've never picked up another Moba since becaues nothing else has come close to measuring up. It's insane how good that game was.
I was never someone screaming in chat, or swearing, but I could be mildly toxic or sarcastic about player decisions and performance. "Gee thanks, that really helped" types of bad manners. When Overwatch ANNOUNCED that you would earn points and free items for getting whatever the accolades were called, I IMMEDIATELY started being nicer. Keeping frustration to myself, being supportive, etc. This was PRIOR to there being a reward. I adjusted *in anticipation* of an upcoming reward. And that attitude changed the way I behaved in all future games. So in my case, the Overwatch kudos system made me a better teammate
I have the special trait of being seethingly angry at people over failing to do simple things I tell them in games (typically as a Jungle role in League, I.e. asking for obj help, or indicating movements for a gank etc.) only to compliment them and acknowledge their adjustments after the fact. I always apologise if I was impulsively rude, as I'm aware it tends to happen frequently. I am most definitely not the nicest MOBA player, but I pride myself in justified rage, followed by justified reconciliation.
People fail to understand this.
The reason League of Legends is so toxic is because you can buy a new botted level 30 ranked-ready account for literally $1.00.
Absolutely true.
Dawn Gate made this process harder because botting without interaction didn't give you enough EXP to progress to 30 in any meaningful amount of time. This meant that account sellers needed to run the bots for longer and it cut into their overall pay over time. Better system than league by far.
That’s my side hustle 😈
Well due to toxicity people getting better ranks
And even moderately toxic people don't really get permabanned. You have to be really really awful to get banned for toxicity.
wrong the reason people are so toxic are because my teammates are dogshit🤓🤓
"when was the last time you saw someone apologize in a MOBA" Holy fuck. You're so right.
Is apologizing online even allowed? I mean - doesn't that conflict with some human rights? ;D
When was the last time you saw someone apologizing online? Why should you see someone apologizing online? Why do you feel that you deserve an apology?
I said 'sorry I fucked that' in a lol game and after literally like 5 chill lines after. Got chat warning contested it and cause i dropped the f bomb even against me the chat warning was valid
@@mysongsbob5681 Yeah that does suck. Youd think they could just have a chat filter if it was over text.
@@max7971people like you are the reason mobas are toxic hellholes.
If you aren't a dick people will like you. If you are a dick you become that guy nobody likes. That's everybody on mobas, because of that self-centered "I don't _owe_ you anything" mindset you seem to think is acceptable.
I've seen plenty of people apologizing online. _Because all parties involved are humans._ The anonymity of the internet is not an excuse, being an asshole still makes you an asshole.
Oh man, Dawngate. Getting that Divine Gift at the end was such a feeling of power.
It was genuinely the most fun I ever had in a MOBA. And of course EA didn't even let it get through beta OR allow fans to keep it alive. Actually disgusting.
still remember the first time I got a new character out of one of those, loved that game then EA murdered it before it even had a chance to get going
@@RabidDogma is it possible that more people hated it than loved it?
@@Neselman21 Very unlikely. Gamers want to have fun. Trust each other. Play together. Toxicity tends to bring the worst out of people and lead to loneliness and paranoia as you cant trust anyone. Watched that multiple times on all different kinds of Servers. When the mods are overwhelmed by toxicity and give up all the good players leave or minimise their interaction with other players. The resulting playerbase is destructive against new players and harms the game long term as it only attracts even more toxic players
@@RabidDogma cause no one care about another one league of legends copy.
The one time I turned a toxic situation around in League, it was with a team that was super angry at each other because our first game went badly, saying some really heinous shit.
So I told them to put up or shut up. Convinced all four of my angry, arguing teammates to queue up one more time, all in the same roles, same champs, and see what happens. "If the loss REALLY wasn't your fault, then you'll have no problem spending 20 minutes and proving it."
We had a hard-fought 35 minute victory. By the 20 minute mark, everyone was on the same side. No arguing, no yelling, no mean comments when someone died or made a mistake. Just callouts, compliments and even some banter.
We ended up queuing up together a few more times after that. Last time I heard from them, two of them had become good friends and were actually planning to room together at the same college.
I still think about it sometimes and feel proud of myself.
Leage matchmaker fr 🫡🫡
I had a somewhat similar interaction. I played a lot of off meta picks, some I made up and found a decent amount of success with. A lot of those games start with people on my team seeing my pick and flaming me, inting, or both. Had one time the jungler was accusing me of intentionally throwing the game with my pick, I told him to put up or shut up. He apologized the first time I rotated to dragon and helped him with it.
Another time where I was practicing with old Graves, trying out triforce on him back when it still had AP on sheen. I was doing poorly and my team would not stop flaming me. That was until I finished triforce and immediately scored a quadra with it. They shut the f up after that.
i had a game last night and both teams were flaming each other. we ended up having our jg 1 v 1 their top laner by baron pit while everyone else watched. my jg got slapped then everyone based and continued the game this was in ranked as well
Is it possible to learn this power?
And then everyone stood up and clapped
A crackling voice comes in over the radio. Hectic screams are all you can pick up before the transmission cuts off: "HE IS TOO NICE! we can't overpo-"
😂
Reminds me a bit of older MMOs, where community mattered more, and your reputation followed you. By no means perfect, but you found it chilled a lot of people out, and made them want to work together because there was a hit to your ability to progress if everyone hated you.
WoW Before the Servers became essentially pointless.
Used to be huge server communities and reputations. People knew everybody, especially on the smaller servers. Didn't matter which side you were on.
And then there were the agents of chaos who actually did everything in their power to grief everyone they met, but because they were relatively rare and so committed to their craft it felt like a genuine part of the roleplaying experience. Dudes were just the villains of the story and did it better than any NPC ever could.
@@Nuvizzle Griefer on Ursin was basically legendary for being a KOS Undead Rogue. If it was red, it was dead, and he'd often do it to lure out other high level Alliance players for him to fight.
Brought about some legendary open World PvP that did, complete with scout reports on his last known where abouts.
Who didn't play MMORPGs before WoW doesn't know what a nice and chilled community is.
WoW ruined that for everyone.
Definitely feel this. Everquest was like that. If you were a jerk then everyone on the server knew, or at least your level cohort, and it would become impossible to group/level/raid.
In my 4+ years of playing League, I’ve never seen anyone apologize. I audibly gasped when I heard someone apologized in a MOBA 😂
I played since season 1 until literally this year. I never seen anyone apologize, they're more likely to run it down than apologize or even play. I'm too damn old to deal with it, anymore.
Saw someone apologize once in like 11 years.
He flamed me for not following him to a stupid dragon call, which i called him out on. He was typing to me later for not ashe hawking a dragon so he could steal with smite so my friend started bashing him for it, but I typed "no hes right its fine". Communication was 10x better after that and after making a massive comeback he was like "mb for the flame bro"
Only apology I've ever seen in league to this day.
I started in S1 and ended in S4. A few people apologize, it wasn't massively rare
now on my NA smurf, everyone behaves like an absolute bellend, and Gold players on NA were Bronze players on EUW
It's so bizarre how EUW and NA differ. doubt you get many apologies there.
I see apologies all the time but I guess I mostly play draft not ranked
i rarely flame anyone but i have added people after the game just to apologize for being harsh 🙈🙈🙈
I saw someone apologize in a moba once , he told me "im sorry ... you were ever born" real heartwarming stuff
so nice!
Meanwhile TF2: YOU WIN AN ACHIEVMENT IF U MAKE A DOMINATED PLAYER QUIT
@@S1ippyOG good
Sniper at 2fort it is, then 😂
My first time playing Insurgency Sandstorm I had a level thousand in my lobby and thought, "well this is going to be toxic." I ran out of ammo and got killed on the reload. The dude messaged me with tips for saving ammo and just staying alive and it almost made me tear up coming from toxic games like call of duty and R6. Never thought the gaming community could be so understanding ESPECIALLY in a FPS
I apologized to someone after an M+, explained that it has been a hell of a week and I'd just lost my dad to suicide and took it out on them without thinking. Ended up grouping with them a few times over the next few months and they always asked how I was that day
Damn that’s wholesome, so sorry about your dad though man.
Felix that you?
I hope you’re doing much better these days. You deserve it for being self-aware and able to open up like that.
How you doing today?
I'm sorry for your lost buddy
Design defines player interaction.
We are all products of our environment in games and in reality
Exactly! That's why games like DRG are so surprising wholesome when you've been playing fps games like cod your whole life
Only for those who care. Anyone who doesn't just barge in and say/do what they want. Happens everywhere in life.
Environment attracts and repels certain types of people, too. There are plenty of good people who don't get transformed by game design into jerks. If game design "makes" you a jerk, you already wanted to be one.
@@TuhljinTampergaugeIt's not about being a jerk. For example. Imagine you can enter a certain activity once a week and only once a week. Game progression is designed in a way that if you fail it you significantly fall behind for the next 5 weeks. And this activity allows only a limited amount of players in at once. Then if all players have a boost from previous weeks they can skip portions of mechanics and make finishing activity way easier. You can absolutely bet that people would form closed groups and allow no new players to join, unless they cleared it multiple times and have an active boosts. People who clear it every week may or may not act as an elitist jerks, people who get regected may or may not despise clearing group. But either way it breeds division and toxicity. If you scale down some elements of design community problems may scale down with them over time. But amount of stoic good people can not change the whole game community, a lot of gamers will silently avoid drama and just prioritise their fun (or a small amount of time to relax after a stressful day) over somebody else's desire to play/engage. That's why it's on game designers to avoid negative engagement instruments like lockouts and designed balancement issues and griefing mechanics.
I saw it happen once in Smite, dude had a stroll of bad luck with match after match after match, day in, day out, of absolute garbage. He was fed up, he was cranky, he insulted us simply for not having the ability of foresight. We lost the match and he apologized cause the match really didn't go that bad, it was an even match. We could have reported him, but we didn't, he reflected on his behavior and thought "man i was a prick", he even said so. He apologized and that's it, and apology goes a long way. If we did report him, he would have gotten a 2 week suspension.
However, this was one time, never have i seen anyone apologize ever again.
I see alot of people use vvs in smite, but the problem with voice lines saying sorry, as opposed to typed interactions, is that people often interpret them as sarcastic
@@lilv47368
"You Rock"
"Cancel That"
generation of whimpy kids
Dawngate was one of the best gaming experiences I ever had! Just reading the title got me all nostalgic and sad that the game was gutted 😢
Dawn Gate was such a good game. The mechanics, the lore, the itemization, the characters were all so good. Frankly I'm still not over it, and I don't think I will ever be.
It touched on actual mature subjects and didn't oversimplify them.
I apologized once in LoL for a failed engage and got 3 people piling on me for fucking up. All that taught me was to turn off chat. Which then drove me away from competitive multiplayer games for years. People are exhausting.
*shitty ppl are exhausting
This is one reason I only play single player games.
I would play with you
I always found doubling down on the apology worked well. So after you say “MB that didn’t work” and they pile on you continue with “Yeah absolutely dog**** of me, just report me at the end guys, I deserve it”. Guaranteed they stop. Nobody wants to listen to the depressive self abuse, and the people looking for an argument aren’t getting their fix.
@@vectoralphaSecbeing in my 40s I never got into multiplayer games. And I hate the trend towards online multiplayer.
I've think I played GTA online once in its early days and l lasted about ten mins. Also few years before that I tried a single game for FIFA online. Just some kid screaming at me.
My kids in the other hand, the lads play FIFA online almost 100% and my daughter is in was on MC servers, and then moved over to Roblox, she has meant some good longtime friends. And run into the odd weirdo.
As an ex Overwatch player they messed up more than just player power when it came to endorsements. Even if you did great it was so easy to forget to endorse because you would have to pull up the tab to endorse between queue which is when most people afk. There were so many times I realized i forgot to endorse a support or just a player I thought derived it. Also the rewards just sucked even in the higher tiers it never felt rewarding to hit such a thing let alone if you weren't an E-girl or popular streaming tier 5 would derank to fast to maintain for a meaningful amount of time.
The deranking was brutal and in ow2 you couldn't endorse everyone usually people did the support and tank never dps. My dps was level 1 endorsement my support was 4
Should have made it so that voting for someone is worth 1 point aswell
Yeah playing overwatch is the equivalent of playing league of legends, toxic, sweaty no matter what gamemode you play quickplay being the sweatiest mode, and a lot of ppl suffering from the dunning kruger effect, plus it's free so little kids are playing too which is fine until they start acting like that as well
Also people often endorse based on how well you play. So you can be the nicest person in the world, but you're gonna get reported rather than endorsed if you had a bad game. Toxic people use endorsements in a toxic way.
Rein Main here, knowing that you've positively influenced someone enough to endorse you at all is it's own reward
THE DAWNGATE HAS OPENED. I miss this game so bad.
🥹🥹
The first MOBA that not only took good gameplay into consideration, but also the story.
I loved every update to the ongoing comic
Dawngate was by far the BEST moba ive ever played in my life , and im a grand master in LOL but man... i miss that game so much, hope that someone pick up that project and take it to the glory it deserves.
I finally found part 2, now I need to find part 1. YT really hiding this series of shorts from me
The other parts are linked in the description, my dude.
It was really sad the year that almost all online games stopped moderating. I remember even League of Legends had a tribunal thing where if you had reported enough people who were toxic then riot would give you a title basically saying you were a tribunal person. And I remember getting on there and I would read tons of things to vote on they let you see chat logs and everything and you could vote whether or not someone should get a temp ban or a perma ban. That only lasted a few months and they took it all down.
We live in an automated hell today.
If I remember correctly, around 90% of the people that did tribunal would just randomly click ban or forgive and not read anything in order to get the reward that was tied to it faster.
The results from the tribunal was basically useless and RNG if people would actually get banned.
This could have been easily solved if people were tricked into taking test tribunals where it's obvious if a ban is necessary or not, and if their answer is wrong then it means that person is incompetent or just not reading the chat log. And these tests could be intermittently done so that they can remove players from tribunals if theh ever start just not reading the chat. Trivial fix but no one implemented it.
Tribunal didn't work out because they offered rewards for doing it and people would just run through all their tribunal cases and click the punish button without reading what happened.
Yes Riot could've mitigated this and done things better, but this is Riot we're talking about. They tried the Tribunal because it seemed like the easiest solution that required the least work on their part, the moment it was obvious it wasn't working they dropped it like they usually do.
i was in the 10% i really enjoyed the tribunal stuff, one shit part was it didn't keep the end lobby chat if I remember right. @@DaveUnknown
We really need more developers like him..
Finally someone understands how a community is a big part of a game. And it needs to be taken care of.
New games rather gifts toxic people, not punishing them.
It's not about developers, it's that the structure of a lot of gaming companies prevents the developers from making better games
You are delusional if you think that developers cater to “toxic” people, or reward them in any way. The moderation is downright invasive, the bans are instant and automated, and Thor is unironically advocating social credit score. How is this not enough for you?
Omg I’ve been listening to your shorts for a while now and it finally hit me. Your voice is just a deeper version of Alan Alda. Hell yeah
he does have a similar pacing to his voice doesnt he
Honestly, the last time I heard someone apologise, I was playing with a really passionate Russian dude, me and my best friend didn’t take the toxicity too seriously bc it was a lot of ‘your mum is x’ so I just started telling back saying ‘ITS WINNABLE, WERE A TEAM BRO, WE GOT THIS’ full screaming into my microphone, about 15 minutes later we started making a full comeback and we just hear this Russian dude sheepishly like “I… I’m sorry for what I said about your mother…” and I was just “ITS ALL GOOD BRO, WE’RE A TEAM, RIDE OR DIE HOMIE!” And he just perked right up and started yelling and being passionate again.
Honestly my most wholesome moba experience ever
This is legitimately a beautiful way to set it up and I love it
Oh my god thank you so much. This is the first channel that actually puts links for the other parts. Thank you
I think this is a vastly underappreciated aspect of competitive games. Studies have proven that people can perform better, and stay in flow states for longer with cooperative and positive teammates. So putting in a system that would diminish toxic people's progress in competitive climb, would legitimately raise the skill ceiling of online multiplayer games.
This what I think the next big step in competitive gaming that we need to take.
ok but the ranked climb is supposed to be based on skill level, winning and losing. If you let anything else affect rating, you'll have inflated/deflated ratings, players won't trust the ladder because of that, and worst of all, it could also affect matchmakings ability to create balanced matches.
@@3eve0nthink pick up basketball, and trash talk. It’s popular and it works. It makes people win or lose bc it’s insufferable. Do you really want that?
@@Onlyg0d you know what's more insufferable? Having a teammate that's only at your rating because they're nice, so they have no idea what they're doing and are completely useless to the team to the point you might as well be playing down a person the whole time.
This system is great when applied to basically anything but a ranked ladder, but when put into that context specifically, this is the sort of scenario it creates. Sorry mate, but I'll take balanced matches over people maybe being a little less toxic any day of the week.
@@3eve0n I assumed you wouldn’t get promoted for being nice. I just assumed you’d get banned for being a jerk. Would you at least agree with that being a good idea?
@@Onlyg0d uh yeah of course that's a good idea it's literally the standard.
Just started playing iracing and it’s basically the same system. The only way to rank up is to be a safe driver so it’s really common to see people apologize after doing something dumb so they don’t get reported for intentionally causing a wreck.
This, exactly. Iracing and other sims are trying to go that path, which is waaaaaaay less toxic than other "competitive" online games. Enjoy the drive brother
I was too young at the time to care about ranked and was too scared of it after my experience on league, but I miss dawngate so much. I had so much fun on Fenmore. The shorts on Dawngate really make me miss those days.
“When was the last time you saw someone apologize in a MOBA?”
The last time I played one, and it was me apologizing. I kinda lost my shit with my teammate on League of Legends 2v2 Arena and then realized I was being rude and blame-y and said “my bad man, I’m rusty as hell so I’m sure it’s mostly my fault. Sorry for being a dick.” We still lost that game, but we were homies by the end of it, and kept a positive attitude with each other, voting positively for each other in the postgame.
It’s never too late to stop being a dick. And no, that wasn’t an intentional Quantumania quote. But it’s true.
I was wrong about something yesterday. I apologized and my carry was completely understanding. Good game.
"When was the last time you saw someone apologize in a MOBA?"
HAHHH!!
Just because I like to poke at the seams, I'll say this:
Losing in ranked matches (if you don't care about your rank too much, that is) - gives you easier opponents. Therefore gives you a sense of power.
So, contrary happens. Being a jerk, afking, losing on purpose - gives you power.
Can that be fixed? Probably not.
Unless you like, actually do tie your power to your 'not being a jerk'. Huh. I guess the title doesn't lie.
Agreed, but this system solves even that. Because there's fewer people in ranked, due to the grind, and the fact that the people in ranked are disinclined to get banned or reported, people intentionally losing would get caught a lot faster, and get banned a lot faster.
@@benjaminhartsock3281 >people are disciplined to be banned or reported
The brave new world
Ah yes. Limiting player count is a perfect solution.
@@benjaminhartsock3281 Meaning rank fails to function.
Broooo I remember this game! It was actually pretty fun, sucks it never took off.
F1 (the racing game) did something a kind of equivalent to this in racing, which I find improved the game so much. Each player gets assessed a safety rating and you can only enter matches with other players of the same safety rating. So if you win races by running others off the track, you end up playing in races that resemble bumper cars and if you actually drive well you play in high quality races.
The issue with safety rating in ANY racing game is that when someone ram into you, you get -rating(some games handle it a little bit better)
Man I cant stop watching this guy
Instead riot removes any form of communication so players eat up their frustration and let it out in gameplay since that doesnt get punished anyway. This year i was 10 times more toxic gameplay wise, because simply chatting got me flagged somehow (most "offensive" was "did drake kill you?" or sth like that). Since they also refuse to balance their game in a healthy manner i finally was able to uninstall and ive never been happier all my life (ive played the game since i was 9 lel)
Your comment makes me think that played for 4 years
Exactly. Allow people to cuss each other out. Get over yourself. If you can’t cope with someone calling you a f f n f a m r pos, go read a book
@@mooted5513if you can't play video games without being a cussy lil baby towards your teammates, maybe you're the mf who should read a book lmao
@@johan4989 Yeah.. but then I can’t ask you to stop being a massive f
So, the real question, how old are you? The 9 years old... lel.. has me spinning. Did you pick up the game a month ago, or 8 years ago? Genuinely confused.
I just found this channel today and I already love it
Daniel Suarez explored this idea in his 2006 books Daemon and Freedom. Great reads!
a big notice telling me i can find part 1 and 3 in the description. this guy did play through whole life. he understands EVERYTHING important ... incredible
this idea is actually genuis
To an extent.... And then you realize that playing with friends crippled your progression. Or maybe you just don't want to be extra talkative that day.
It's not a bad idea, but it's kinda weird to punish people for playing with their friends
Implemented Psychology 101, determine what you want from the person, engineer the system back from that. I learned this in communication class, the final was "get someone to do something during a presentation." My presentation was as a pretend gumball machine salesman, during my "pitch" I had a gumball machine on stage and invited everyone to use it, while I handed out quarters. Most everyone went up to the machine, and I basically bought an A on my final for about 7 dollars.
@@JACpotatos I assure you, you didn't have to be talkative. People were happy to honor you after the game as long as you weren't a jerk. It basically worked the opposite of how honoring works in League, instead of only honoring if you thought someone particularly deserved it you simply didn't honor someone you didn't think deserved it.
@@Nuvizzle lmao, literally a participation trophy. No wonder the game failed.
@@GrugTheJust im glad you learned something because that sounds like the easiest final ive ever heard of.
My friends and I still talk about how good that game was all the time. Wish it never got shut down cause they did everything right.
-they did everything right
-they shit down the game
Pick one, and only one
I find it funny how nice some people can be in EFT and it is not because they gain anything from being nice. It is because they know what the struggle for new players is like and have sympathy for the newbs.
That's genuinely why the game is filled with trashy rat b.s and people wanting to co op over fighting. Pre voip was amazing. Everyone killed everyone as it should be.
I miss Dawn Gate so much, beautiful graphics, interesting character design. EXCELLENT player interaction system and one of the most creative and creativity-rewarding item systems in any MOBA
BRO this game was so good, so sad that it's gone
I was once toxic to someone and then apologized i was just frustrated.
You can tell most the players never played organized team sports. In actual sports you up your game when a homie is having a bad game and he will do the same. In video games everyone acts like theyre always perfect theyignore their mistakes.
In ow2 there was almost always something i could have done in a team fight.
Now injust play path of exile, minecraft, and Crusader Kings 3 though indont even mess with other games everything is sooo toxic its not even worth it
Forcing people to be nice not because thats us what they feel like being but rather out of fear doesnt really sound great. Id rather have more genuine honest reactions even if its toxic
Openly toxic behavior is preferable to soft inting. At least I can mentally check out of the game if someone admits they'll run it down unlike someone pretending to have a bad game that isn't reportable
Also block their communication.
I don't even know what I just heard... Literally my brain can't comprehend someone apologizing in a multiplayer game, much less a moba. Why did I tear up and get angry and happy all at once? You short circuited my brain.
I missed DawnGate so much. It was such a fun after 2 years of league
Because false pleasantries and two faced personalities are so nice to deal with.
Absolutely agree. I can’t stand ffxiv people, I’ll take bluntness over passive-aggressive bickering any day of the week.
I'd rather deal with fake politeness over honest rudeness, they are not people who you are gonna be part of your life, so who cares if they are being fake?
I want to play a game not marry them haha. Politeness with stranger is basic social behavior.
@@everlastiny so you'd rather have a guy trolling and being nice in chat than a guy carrying your ass and flaming you every time you make a mistake?
Fake nice is much better than genuine asshole.
Dawn Gate was shuttered before launch, so the notion that some "be nice" system was going to actually work is completely conjectural.
Ah, that is useful context, thank you for sharing!
Yes, but it shut down before launch because it's parent company was EA who were disappointed it didn't make League level money in early access.
Yeah, I don't see how this system wouldn't just be gamed by all the players, they would all have as secret agreement to always give everyone else a positive vote, then everyone gets power and the whole system becomes meaningless.
@@Arjay404Maybe, maybe it devolves into a griefing engine. Without empirical evidence, I think it's just self-indulgent to pretend that you've "solved" toxicity.
@@DatsVatSheSaid The system stifled progression because it tied it to other peoples decisions rather than gameplay.
People apologize in MOBAs?? WTF?
I was a part of the GLG squad for dawngate. Best moba. Rip
reminds me of old school wow where your server/realm was your community
Except now you're actively disincentivized to play with friends.
That's a fair point
Not really? Why could you not play with friends?
@@asonofliberty3662it is a fair point since you cannot be voted on by your friend(s).
@@asonofliberty3662it's not that you couldn't, but if player power/progression is tied to kudos, if you want to not be penalized and level at a glacial pace, you have to play solo queue for even the opportunity to level faster. A five stack that always plays together progresses at the same rate as the most toxic player alive.
You usually get party bonuses in these games AND idk what psychopath can tell their friend "i don't want to play with you, i want my good person bonus"
it's a shame how many people require consequences in order to not be a jerk.
No one apologies in a moba, impossible you are better than the others and your point is valid.
These comments are kind of fascinating. I'm sure a lot of it is because I don't play ranked, but I apologize when I do something dumb that affects my team and usually the response I get is just "all good" or something to that effect. Once you start calling out your own mistakes, other people are more likely to do the same with theirs, too. Being aggressively kind and supportive in chat has a really positive effect in a lot of matches, too. Interrupting the negative feedback loops that happens with infighting can easily swing a game back in your favor and untilt the tilted. And when that fails, League has had fantastic mute options for a long time now. If you don't use them, that's on you.
Dude I LOVED Dawngate, it was such an amazing game and had such an amazing team working behind it. I'm forever sad that it was killed before it even had a chance because I genuinely believe that if EA gave it the time it needed it would have been bigger than LoL.
I like this. It also means if you grind your way to the top while being toxic, you've kind of earned the right to be.
I know this is an old video but Deadlock, despite being a MOBA has had some of the nicest interactions ive ever had in any shooter ive played
Anti doom scrolling Thor saved me earlier today 1:06 am. Thank you!
Oh wow. You witnessed something rare and special my man.
Thats how I met one of my best friends on siege. A friend of mine and I were waiting for others to get online so we just ran unranked. We were just messing around on attack and rushed, 2 other teammates followed us in for the quick push and we killed all except 1 and we had one guy left on our team. This guy was TERRIBLE, he was slowly moving through the map unable to find objective. Finally my friend and I went into game chat and started talking a little trash, nothing crazy just telling him to follow the markers in your face bot. He turned a corner and ran into my claymore, the man froze in place, we could hear the gears turning in his brain before he took out a pistol to try and silently shoot the claymore. We started dogging on him hard about shooting friendly stuff 😅🤣🤣. He then turns on his mic and says "guys please im sorry I dont know how to play this game yet, my girlfriend just got me the game thinking I might like it so im trying to figure out whats gonng on" 🤣🤣🤣🤣 we immediately started laughing and then apologized ourselves and added him to teach him the game. The man ended up being a good player on our ladders team 🤣🤣
This used to happen in Final Fantasy XI. The game by itself was hard enough and almost impossible to progress solo, you always needed a party but if your personal reputation was a bad one, no one would party with you and you were stuck forever.
As someone who tried to be polite online, i support this
This is what I want for social media. I used to do a lot of role-play, as well as sponsor art, on Twitter, which is difficult, because that platform isn't made for it and it's too easy to make a new account and pretend to be someone else (in fact, that's the point for role-play).
But if you had a Twitter-like website and you made it so that you have to receive positive reviews for your art or your role-play, then you can build up your karma over time and that 'verifies' you as a real person, rather than just a bot.
wow! I would love to sit you down with Mr. Stern....what great voices you both have, amazing!
I had an experience playing Counter Strike for the first time (I'm 44 and don't usually play FPS). I joined a match, I didn't know it was ranked, and obviously I was playing very badly, and the other players started swearing at me. So I said, "Hey, it's not my fault. I just got here, I decided to try this game and I didn't know it was this competitive, give me a break. Haven't you ever been a noob?
And, incredibly (we're talking about Brazilian players here), they understood, apologized to me, and started teaching me, from the basics, with all patience, and even praised me when we won a match. That made an impression on me, it made me believe that it's possible to overcome toxicity.
I actually remember talking to a guy on league once. They kept flaming me for being a bad jungle and I kept flaming them for blaming me on their lost lane. Eventually I muted and told them Id talk to them post game and explain why they were wrong. Game finishes and we lost, I sent them a friend request afterwards and asked if they wanted to discuss the situation. After a lot of toxic back and forth we both ended up admitting our mistake, apologized and even became friends since we realized that the other person wasnt actually that bad of a guy.
WoW needs this more than ever. Probably their most required feature for player retention. Pugs (namely Timewalking) are especially bad. Possibly worse than League these days.
I made a friend of a friend cry one time on LoL because I forgot it was her shitting up my lane as support. I *was* a bit harsh in my words, but she ignored pings and advice and was confrontational. She ended up quitting that game and leaving me to solo bot lane. Within a few minutes I got my first solo double kill, and 10-15 minutes later I got a solo quad and we won.
I did later apologize to her and we ended up being good friends for a while afterward.
This applies to most competitive game. I was highest rank in csgo and valorant back in the day and most games were just good vibes. It's only in the lower ranks that people are toxic.
Lineage 2 Karma system was great. You could kill anyone at any time, but if you did you became free to kill (and drop items) until you leveled off the karma points
There was a beautiful time when it felt like Overwatch was going to be the “non-toxic” online game. It was so easy to find a couple chill people to group up with and just grind for a few hours every night. Maybe you didn’t keep in touch or form relationships with a lot of the people you played with, like WOW, but that almost made it more special. You could group up with some strangers, have fun kicking ass together, say GG and probably never speak again.
This is my i loved final fantasy 11 so much when it started. Leveling required a party. If you were a toxic player... Everyone learned who you were, no more parties.. and you were screwed. Bc dying caused you to lose a little xp.. you could even de-lvl if you died enough..
Nicest ppl in an mmo ever...
A similar concept of this worked in Final Fantasy 11. That game you needed other players to succeed. There was no matchmaking function. You had to interact with people and if you were a dick, the server very quickly learned. You had to be nice to find groups willing to play with you and with how brutal that game was in terms of time and progression, people just actively tried to avoid confrontation for the sake of not wasting time.
Thats why I love Counterstrike. Nothing is moderated, its just a war field and im the main character in it.
netrek had this. taking orders and getting to a position or executing the order got you more points towards advancing rank getting access to better ships and ultimately getting to control/summon a starbase. if you go off on your own and dont be a team player you dont advance fast at all.
Or, alternatively, add a instant "salute" button.
Rock and stone, dwarves!
I just flat out don’t need everyone to be nice to each other. I actually enjoy the chaos of the old days when absolutely no steps were taken to curb any sort of behavior. I’m generally nice, but it just doesn’t bother me when others aren’t. A bit of ridiculous shit talk is fun sometimes too.
I love Dawngate. I used to play Moira and say "OTTER YOU DOIN'?" and "WE GOTTA GET OTTER HERE" There's probably a reason I don't get invited anywhere.
Actually sounds like a really good system for accountability. Love it.
DawnGate was the best MOBA ever created. When the DawnGate closed we all lost a piece of our soul
It’s kind of a reflection of life, that being nice will take you further than being a jerk.
I could see some quite elaborate mechanics with game effects and NPC’s being responsive to user attitudes, which could be a very positive reflection of reality and the consequences of misbehaving. Maybe that’s a reality check that is developmentally positive for the younger players. The resulting kinder atmosphere is also probably much better for the psychological well being of our youth. It might even save lives.
Dota 2 did this quite well with the behaviour score. I maintained my behaviour score at 10,000 (the highest) and hardly ever had bad games due to toxic team mates. Every now and then I'd be surprised with someone being an asshole or acting immaturely, and at the end of the game it would always be because it was a "Mixed behaviour scores" game and everyone would be like ohh there we go.
I had a guy apologizing to me in league one time, it was an enemy, I don't even remember what exactly he said, something about one of his teamates that was losing lane, I answered with "he is using his time to have fun in a game, you are the idiot acting like it's work" and the guy really gave an apology, I didn't expected it at all, it was surreal. That was the one time it happened in 8 years of league.
This is why I don't play online games anymore, they ALL REWARD toxicity
Dawngate was the moba that made me switch from League. I've never picked up another Moba since becaues nothing else has come close to measuring up. It's insane how good that game was.
Award kindness….. that is f’ing ground breaking
I was never someone screaming in chat, or swearing, but I could be mildly toxic or sarcastic about player decisions and performance. "Gee thanks, that really helped" types of bad manners. When Overwatch ANNOUNCED that you would earn points and free items for getting whatever the accolades were called, I IMMEDIATELY started being nicer. Keeping frustration to myself, being supportive, etc. This was PRIOR to there being a reward. I adjusted *in anticipation* of an upcoming reward. And that attitude changed the way I behaved in all future games. So in my case, the Overwatch kudos system made me a better teammate
I still miss Dawn Gate. It and MxM had some great novel concepts for the MOBA genre.
Great point love this need more of it
Its almost like being mean in games has been so normalized that until there are incentives against it no one tries not to be mean
What happened to Dawngate still hurts my heart to this very day. Seeing Gigantic come back leaves me hopeful Dawngate can too, but until then...
i miss Dawn Gate Ea shafted them hard so much great potential for that game
I have the special trait of being seethingly angry at people over failing to do simple things I tell them in games (typically as a Jungle role in League, I.e. asking for obj help, or indicating movements for a gank etc.) only to compliment them and acknowledge their adjustments after the fact.
I always apologise if I was impulsively rude, as I'm aware it tends to happen frequently. I am most definitely not the nicest MOBA player, but I pride myself in justified rage, followed by justified reconciliation.
I do miss dawngate. Was a great play
I remember the first time someone apologized to me in a League match - I almost fainted. We've been friends ever since.