As ive delved into his teachings on my own (i began practicing during my military service and now live in an area where there arent many temples nearby) i had a few thoughts on this. As ive learned and practiced, i came across statements along the lines of "dont take my words as gospel, take from them what helps you" i had some thoughts on this particular story. Its always seemed to me that he was a realist alongside his enlightened views, and i wonder if his initial resistance was more along the fear that what would be an extremely liberal policy at the time would discourage society from finding the way. I think that while he knew there was no difference between the people, that was not the case in most peoples mind. I think that his hope with his words was to inspire love and compassion knowing that this would create a time where society was able to accept the concept of people being the same, as such society would then be able to abandon the teachings that were clearly influenced by ancient ideals. That might also explain the inconsistencies with the rest of his teachings. Just my personal view on this as i find this story very inconsistent with the rest of his teachings.
Thank you very much for the video. I’m a female Theravada practitioner living in Thailand. I know of two Bhikkhuni monasteries in the country (I believe they are the only two) and I’ve been told the founding Bhikkhunis went to Sri Lanka for their ordinations. Do you know why Sri Lanka ordains women while none of the other SE Asian countries do?
It's a good question Charity, not one I know the answer to. I suspect that Sri Lanka may culturally be slightly more open to Bhikkhuni ordination than some of the other countries involved, but am not sure.
A great follow up video might be ordination options for female monastics in the various traditions. Not sure if that interests you but it certainly is a hot topic for dedicated female Western practitioners. Thanks again!
I think it's a cultural thing as well. Bhikkhuni Sanghamitta is revered in Sri Lanka for having brought the sapling of the Bodhi tree from India. And, although she was not a Bhikkhuni, Princess Hemamala is told to have smuggled Buddha's tooth relic to Sri Lanka by hiding it in her hair. These scenes are commonly depicted in Buddhist temples, so maybe that helps to normalize the idea of women playing important roles in Buddhism.
Great video!....treasure all the information, especially about the role of females in Buddhism As you had said so in your other talk about ordination of bhikkunis in Buddhism, it's all to do with the 'male gatekeepers', it's generally societal values, especially during the ancient times. Thanks very much for sharing....💝🌻
Very well research and reflecting. I have learned a lot and appreciate how you study early text, compare to the later tradition and show connection to the nowadays questions. I hope the Buddhist people should have such an approach. I think the Buddha did aware of the patriarchy society of India in his time and adjust his community in someway that people could accept it in the same time still encourage the spiritual ability for the female disciples as we can see in anguttara Nikaya that mentioned 10 great Bhikkhunis had been praised by Buddha for their different talents as he did with the bhikkhus( the same for male and female laypersons too). About the Theravadin Bhikkhunis , I think it is not about female equality(which is confirmed in every aspect) but more about transmission of different linage of schools or sects until we can overcome that border.
This 'chariot' analogy is found in many traditions. We find it in Plato's Phaedrus with Socrates famous story of the charioteer, we find it in the Bhagavad Gita with Krsna guiding Arjuna in his chariot into battle, and we also find it in Jewish teachings. The Chariot is even one of the trump cards in Tarot (which refers back to Kabbalistic and Judeo-Christian teachings). The Buddhist teachings are only offering their own unique interpretation of the chariot analogy. All the same, Bhikkuni Vajira's contribution is great indeed and worthy of acknowledgement.
Well yes, the chariot is used in many ancient similes. But the Buddhist one is to a different end than the others in expressing non-self. I did an earlier video on the history of this simile in Buddhism in case you’re interested: th-cam.com/video/8_AMrB-HOSg/w-d-xo.html
Just as you said, originally Buddha refused to ordain women as nuns stating that it would cause his teachings to survive half as long i.e. for 500 years rather than 1,000. When Buddha's cousin, Ananda, questioned if there was any reason women couldn't reach enlightenment and enter Nirvana as well as men could Buddha admitted there was no reason. So nuns were allowed but there are unequal rules for nuns - even the most senior nuns are to be considered "junior" to a monk of just one day! And, yes, as you stated these are recorded in the Vinaya-pitaka. In this we find the 8 Garudhammas ("heavy rules"); this includes total subordination of nuns to monks and the most junior monk being ranked above the most experienced nuns, as mentioned. With the Theravada orders of southeast Asia rules requiring the presence of nuns at the ordination of a nun has effectively ended the full ordination of nuns in SE Asia; women there can only be novices. And on Tibetan Buddhism there are some female Tibetan mamas but no nun's orders were ever established. The one places that can trace its lineage back to the first ordination of nuns is, intriguingly, China and Taiwan i.e. the order of Mahayana. Apparently the Taiwanese nuns still hold a higher status in their country than do the monks and the Zen tradition also had some formidable women Zen masters in its history. The problem can be said to lie with the fact Buddhist doctrines on the subject of enlightenment of women are contradictory. And I would add to this the varying degrees of misogyny and patriarchy in certain societies within which various Buddhist schools operated and can't be deemed immune to such influences. We know that in Buddhism there are different schools and sects that do not follow the same scriptures, and texts regarded as authentic by one school not deemed authentic by others, and scriptures disagreeing e.g. the Larger Sukhavatruyuha - which contains a passage typically interpreted as meaning women must be reborn as men before they can enter Nirvana - differing from the Vimalakirti sutra which teaches the genders are essentially unreal just as Buddha had stated, "In all things, there is neither male nor female." These days most Buddhist women regard institutional sexism to be vestiges of Asian patriarchal culture that can be surgically excised from Dharma and some western monastic orders are co-ed and have women and men following the same rules. There's certainly a movement towards equality but with schools like the Theravada orders it's likely to happen much more slowly e. some women from the Theravada tradition have been ordained as Theravadic nuns in the presence of Mahayana nuns but this isn't typically accepted by Theravada monastic orders.
In founding this Order of Bikkhunis the Buddha, foreseeing the future repercussions, remarked: *"If, Ananda, women had not received permission to renounce the world and enter the homeless state under the doctrine and discipline proclaimed by the Thathaghatha, the holy life would have lasted long and Sublime Dhamma would have survived for thousand years. But since women have entered this homeless state, the holy life would not last long and the Sublime Dhamma would now remain only for five hundred years."* The Buddha added, *"Just as, Ananda, houses in which there are many women and but few men are easily violated by burglars, even so, under whatsoever doctrine and discipline women are permitted to renounce the world and enter the homeless state, that Holy Life will not last long.* *And just as a man would in anticipation build an embankment to a great reservoir beyond which the water should not overpass, even so have I in anticipation laid down these Eight Chief Rules for the Bikkhunis, not to be transgressed throughout their lives."* In making these comments, which may not generally be very palatable to womankind, the Buddha was not in any way making a wholesale condemnation of women but was only Reckoning with the weaknesses of their sex. Although for several valid reasons the Buddha reluctantly permitted women to enter the Order, it should be stated that it was the Buddha who, for the first time in history of the world, founded an Order for women with rules and regulations. Just as he appointed two chief disciples, Venerable Sariputta and Moggallana for the Order of monks, two chief female disciples Venerable Khema and Uppalavanna were appointed for the Order of nuns as well.
Thanks for the comment and question Keeperoftruth. Thing is, secular Buddhist practice needn't really look any different from normal practice. It's something I might do a video about eventually. Meanwhile if you have questions about secular Buddhism generally I have a playlist that you can see here: th-cam.com/play/PL0akoU_OszRjx0lEV_Bre693AvHWrk-Kp.html
Hello, Doug ! I came across a webpage by Mettanando Bhikkhu in which he explains why the 8 Garudhammas are later additions. He says that the Therigatha describes a situation in which a monk achieves Nirvana because of a nun's teachings. This contradicts the 8th extra rule, implying that the rules were later interpolations by monks. Then, there's Pasenadi praising nun Khema's abilities in front of Buddha. Furthermore, he says that Buddhist Nuns were more active than Monks in the promotion of Buddha's Dhamma. And so on. The point that he is trying to make here is that Buddha's original teachings did not favor men over women. This seems very plausible to me. What about you ?
Yes it sounds plausible to me as well. I've also heard speculation that the garudhammas were later interpolations. IIRC the Vinaya has stories for them which implies they weren't put as requirements for the founding of the Nuns' order.
@@DougsDharma Yes. Sounds plausible indeed ! Also, according to me, there's another plausible reason for rejecting the claim that Buddha was a sexist or a misogynist. He did not hate anybody, by definition ! So, why would he even think about discriminating against women ? I feel like a person who hates no one is incapable of misogyny or sexism. Seems like Buddha's followers damaged his reputation to a great extent. I am glad that people nowadays are realising that he was innocent, thanks to the works of several Buddhist scholars, like you ! 🙂
@@DipayanPyne94 well the way you were debating in the Nihilism video, I didn't thought I would see you in a secular Buddhist video. I thought you were too traditional. Since I follow Buddhism in a secular way I don't care much about the debate of Self vs non-Self and can also follow other philosophies.
@@playmobilegamescodm I was into Buddhism for quite sometime. It was, in some ways, a mistake. I have moved on. I have learnt so much more. I am glad I am back to Science now. Nothing better than STEM. That reminds me of something. Have you finally understood energy ? If yes, great. I will simply repeat it. Energy is just a property. Properties are useful because they measure something we want to know. Properties are not real. Matter and Space are. Both Matter and Space are understood with the help of their respective properties. Material Properties and Spatial Properties. Simple. And yeah, I will repeat this. Don't explore Buddhism anymore. Big waste of time. Stick to STEM alone.
@@playmobilegamescodm I have a Master's degree in Engineering. Are you gonna trust me now ? Anyway, here's an important point for you. The APPEAL TO AUTHORITY FALLACY. There are NO authorities when it comes to Knowledge. Knowledge is Knowledge in it's own right. A scientist isn't right because he is a scientist. He is right only if he says something that is Factual or Logical. What gives us facts. Well, Empirical Evidence. That's based on Observation. What's the role of properties then ? Well, as I said, they are just numbers. Nick Lucid said the exact same thing (doesn't mean that it makes right only because he said it).
Hello .. First of it's a great video and may i ask you the name of the text you are talking about in the video? The text in which the conversation between ananda and buddhanis recorded??
Sir, after watching this video I was scared that I might start believing in gender roles due to practice of vipassana. So can I start practicing vipassana without being scared right? I think that equality is best and right.
Thanks doug for previous answer, I also want to ask that, does current buddhists keep women AT EQUAL STATUS AS OF MEN? and do they give women equal respect as men? Do they consider women as equally capable as of men? Do they force women into any old traditions or rules? What is your experience? Do they believe in patriarchy? Please just answer my these few questions. I will be very greatful..❤
Again, this totally depends on the people and the group. As you know, much of contemporary society is patriarchal, and sanghas are made up of people who live in that society. But the sanghas I know best strive for equality. That is not, of course, to say that all of them do. See: th-cam.com/video/9lhyjbhrIRs/w-d-xo.html
Great video man, a lot of details covered. I just want to ask one thing that does current buddhism and meditation practitioners believe in gender roles?? Does practicing buddhism will make me believe in gender roles. Please answer, thank you.
I want to ask that what today's vipassana practitioners and buddhism followers(and also big leaders like SN goenka) believe or think about women? Do they believe in complete equality and women empowerment or not?. Do they believe in old gender roles or not? I really want to know these things before start following buddhism and vipassana. And what are your views on gender equality?? And can I safely follow vipassana without being afraid to be brainwashed to belive in inequality? Please answer thank you.
@@DougsDharma so are you sure that Vipassana will not force/teach me to believe in Gender roles right? It will make me see people as HUMANS instead of their genders right. I am concerned Please reply..
Hello doug, great work, I want to know about the views of current buddhists on gender roles. Do they oppose it? Do they support women's freedom and education and jobs?. Please answer. Waiting for your reply . ❤
It totally depends on the person, GIRI. There's no single answer to give. That said, all the Buddhists I know support women's freedom, education, and jobs.
Question: To what extent - I ask in this video because of the perhaps mistaken belief that the Buddha had certain marks on him - does Buddhism ascribe the way things are to a creator or some such? Is it even important to the Buddha who or what created this reality in which we live?
The Buddha essentially rejects the notion that the way things are is due to a creator. I touched on some of this in an early video of mine: th-cam.com/video/QOQiZbAPtW4/w-d-xo.html . And the general issue as to whether the universe is infinite or finite in time is one of his "unanswered questions": th-cam.com/video/59FXAW3AS2I/w-d-xo.html
Doug, in the Bahudhatukasutta i.e MN 115, Buddha says very clearly that women can't become Buddhas, Wheel Turning Monarchs etc. Is the sutta accurate ? The sutta where Buddha gives extra rules for women after Ananda's request is problematic, as per scholars, such as Rita Gross, but what about MN 115 ? I understand that Buddha was Androcentric, but did he really believe, at some point in his life, that women can't become Buddhas ? MN 115 suggests exactly that. What do I make of it ?
It's hard to say Dipayan. The Buddha certainly lived in a male-dominated society, in which it seems to have been inconceivable that women could become monarchs. Since the Buddha was thought of in monarchic terms (as a kind of substitute for, or shadow of, a wheel turning monarch), it may be that even the Buddha himself couldn't envision a woman as a Buddha.
Thanks for an interesting video. I was also wondering why was Buddha at the beginning so strict about women and needed to be convinced by Ánanda...Was Ánanda somehow more enlightened than Buddha? Should´nt an enlightened being be above some societal, patriarchical etc. patterns? Vinaya in theravada even goes so strict that a monk can´t be in one room with a woman alone. That´s not much of a trust (saddhá) towards monks at this point. When we would use this kind of logic to monks who are gays or lesbians, they coudn´t be in one room with the same gender, which makes no sense. Thanks for explanation.
so are you sure that Vipassana will not force/teach me to believe in any Gender roles and discrimination right? It will make me see people as HUMANS instead of their genders right. I am concerned and little scared Please reply..
I am really afraid that I might become sexist and against women rights and freedom and equality by practicing vipassana, so I want to ask that is it true or not ? And also what are your views about gender equality and does following meditaions effect it in any way??? Please answer.
Personally I can't see how Vipassana would make you become sexist. If anything it should work to make you more open to the world and to compassion for others. Though if you are particularly concerned, consider including some lovingkindness and compassion meditation along with the vipassana.
Hello, thank you for the video. I am a Vajrayana female buddhist, and I think the reason why Buddha initially resisted the idea of letting women become nuns were because of the society and also may be because of our biological needs. Since there were certain laws monks had to abide with, you can go through those laws and you will see that this kind of laws would have made it harder for a female practitioner to practice during those times. It is not because women are incapable, but women generally are weaker to be honest. Also because of that there were issues during buddha's time that nuns were almost rapped or may be even rapped many times. His intentions, though it may seem very male oriented during that time, it only came from the place of concern and compassion.
Doug, I have been having a Debate with someone over the last few days about 'Women in Buddhism'. I have 2 Questions : 1) Can we be sure that Buddha did NOT hate women or look down upon them ? 2) Are there any Suttas where Buddha Praises or Encourages Bhikkhunis or Women, in General ??
The Buddha certainly did praise Bhikkhunis and women lay followers, since there are suttas where he lauds certain of them as being the best at certain dharmic skills. He also praised talks by Bhikkhunis, and said before he died that he wouldn't pass on until he'd set up a sangha of Bhikkhus, Bhikkhunis, lay men and lay women. So no, he didn't hate women, that's for sure, though he seems to have been quite androcentric in focusing around the concerns of men rather than women. I'd read Rita Gross's book Buddhism After Patriarchy for a good look at the Buddha's viewpoint from an incisive woman writer.
@@DougsDharma Alright ! Thanks, Doug ! It is quite Surprising to me that Many of Buddha's Teachings on Ethics/Morals are Completely Compatible with Modern Day Human Rights. That's why, despite being a Free Thinker, I like to take Refuge in Buddha's Dhamma/Dharma. However, some Suttas concern me, every once in a while ! Anyway, Thanks for your Beautiful Channel ! 🙏🏼😄
Buddha did not hate women or looked down upon them, that would be totally contrary to his teachings. I am a Buddhist woman myself. If you would like watch this video on the subject:
Great video. The notion of a woman being reborn as a man to attain awakening is really absurd or even idiotic since enlightenment/awakening is not something physical, so how is it constrained by gender. Also, the problem with sexual tantric practices from what I have learned from reading Dzongsar Jamyang Khyentse Rinpoche's works is that they were secret practices which the Tibetans received from the Indian Vajra masters, but the Tibetans didn't keep it secret or did a good job at that
Sex tantric has been banned in Tibet and Bhutan,but there are still some practicing it. I don't approve it as it's exploiting a young maiden as sex tool. She is the one who feels very hurt.
@@vinnysing1324 I agree that it is sexual exploitation. However the Early Vajrayana Masters (Mahasiddhas) that practised tantric sex were genuine adepts. They could be considered unorthodox in kinder terms or mad men, they were beyond conventional norms. For instance; They didn't differentiate between dog urine and drinking water. The problem is that in modern times, they are charlatans who act as they are Mahasiddhas of the past but in reality are just frauds
@@vinnysing1324 I agree that it is sexual exploitation since the so called masters who do it act as they were the Mahasiddhas of the Ancient Era when they are just charlatans in the end
If it's significant to point out that one of the famous analogies was "actually attributed to a female", that is a sign of lack of egality, not the opposite. Buddhism has issues of putting women under men in ranking, power and applies stricter rules to them, as is the case with any major global religion started in an ancient and sexist society.
@@DougsDharma It was very upsetting to hear the Dali Lama say that if he had a female successor she would have to be attractive enough for people to pay attention to her. Even in modern times the ills of widespread inequality plagues the most renowned of us.
Christianity "Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord" - EPHESIANS 5:22 "For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body." - EPHESIANS 5:23 "Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection." - (1 TIMOTHY 2:11 KJV) "But I suffer not to woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence." - (1 TIMOTHY 2:12 KJV) "For Adam was first formed, then Eve." - (1 TIMOTHY 2:13 KJV) "And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." - (1 TIMOTHY 2:14 KJV) "But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel:" - (DEUTERONOMY 22:20 KJV) "Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you." - (DEUTERONOMY 22:21 KJV) "If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, then they shall both of them die, both the man that lay with the woman, and the woman: so shalt thou put away evil from Israel." - (DEUTERONOMY 22:22 KJV) "If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her;" - (DEUTERONOMY 22:23 KJV) "Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you." - (DEUTERONOMY 22:24 KJV)
Islam "Men are the protectors And maintainers of women, Because God has given The one more (strength) Than the other, and because They support them From their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard In (the husband's) absence What God would have them guard. As to those women On whose part ye fear Disloyalty and ill-conduct, Admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); But if they return to obedience, Seek not against them Means (of annoyance) For the god is most high, Great (above you all)." - Surah 4:34 "Also (prohibited are) Women already married, Except those Whom your right hands possess: Thus hath God ordained (prohibitions) against you: Except for those, all others Are lawful, provided ye seek (them in marriage) With gifts from your property, Desiring chastity, not lust. Seeing that ye derive Benefit from them, give them Their dowers (at least) As prescribed; but if, After a dower is prescribed, ye agree Manually (to vary it), Their is no blame on you, And God is All-knowing All-wise." - Surah 4:24 "Who abstain from sex," - Surah 23:5 "Except with those joined To them in the marriage bond, Or (the captives) whom Their right hands possess, For (in their case) they are Free from blame." - Surah 23:6 "And those who guard Their chastity," - Surah 70:29 "Except with their wives And the (captives) whom Their right hands possess, To be blamed," - Surah 70:30
The Eight Chief Rules are as follows: 1. A Bikkhuni, even of a hundred years standing by Upasampada, should salute a Bikkhu, rise up before him, reverence him, and perform all proper duties towards him though he had received the higher ordination that very day. 2. A Bikkhuni should not spend a Retreat (Vassa) in a place where there is no Bikkhu. 3. Every fortnight a Bikkhuni should ask from the Order of Bikkhus the time of Uposatha meeting and when a Bikkhu would come to Admonish them. 4. The Pavarana ceremony after the Retreat should be held by a Bikkhuni in the presence of both Bikkhus and Bikkhunis (to inquire whether through any of the three ways of seeing, hearing, or suspicion a wrong has been done.) 5. A Bikkhuni who has committed a major offence should undergo Manatta discipline in the presence of the Order of both Bikkhus and Bikkhunis. 6. A female novice (Sikkamana), who is trained in the six rules for two years, should receive the Higher Ordination from the Order of both Bikkhus and Bikkhunis. 7. A Bikkhuni should on no account rebuke or abuse a Bikkhu. 8. Henceforth Bikkhunis should not give admonition to Bikkhus, but Bikkhus should Admonish Bikkhunis. Then Venerable Ananda mentioned them to Maha Prajapathi Gothami and she agreed to abide by those Eight Chief Rules. By their acceptance she automatically received the Higher Ordination.
6 ปีที่แล้ว +5
One of the ten Sikh Gurus (Sikhism is a much later Dharmic traditional than Buddhism) bestowed equal rights to women in all respects, saying that women give birth to kings, so why should they be treated less than men. Hence, Sikh women have taken up all types of roles, including "saint-warriors" against Islamic rulers in India prior to the British empire. It is indeed unfair to nuns that Theravada Buddhism is so patriachal in practice. This will change because of the pressure that the modern western Buddhist nuns will exert on the monks. Anyway, it is not a bad idea for nuns to stay away from the monks, because men enjoy dominating women and make them lose their self-esteem😀 Maybe the monks think the converse and want to keep nuns at bay😀 The gender game goes on everywhere....
Dear Doug. love your videos. I need to ask:What do you think about Buddhas very humilating quotes on women, like that quote where he would rather put his penis in a snakes mouth rather than a woman or that other comment on that the worst scent is of a woman, that one in other words should stay VERY clear of any female.. I love buddhists thinking except this. this is extremely shocking to discover ..
Any version of this story would have been different if written by a different author and would have had different meaning, not more or less. To say this version would have more meaning had it come from a woman is despicably sexist.
in buddha days, discrimanation system of India, women can' be Buddha to help englightment to society. Society did not accept women teachers. But women can enlightenment to theirself, can get nivarna liked Buddha. because of the society of India. When u become Budda, u have to share ur teaching to society. Women are not allowed to do that action at that time. So buddha said like that.
sadhana targets mind & consciousness, these are universal, independently of age, gender, creed, nationality, status, education, etc ... women are equally qualified for pursuing sadhana & the higher goals of inner yoga or buddhism. somehow there is not so many registered awakened female Boddhisattva, maybe there were but not known to us in the same quantity as male.
I am from Sri Lanka. Theravada Buddhism is being developed in our country. In the early days of our country there were Bhikkunis . But later the Bhikkuni Sasana decline . So I think it has influenced Theravada Buddhism in Myanmar, Thailand, Cambodia, Laos and other countries.
For laypeople the five precepts are the only real training rules, and they are the same for everyone. Here is a video I did on them awhile back: th-cam.com/video/Ltr0gPj6s50/w-d-xo.html
According to Buddhism, all can be in Nivarna whoever U r, man, woman or gay and whatever U r. But ..the india society in Buddha time, people would not accept Ur words about dhmma if U r woman or LGBTQ because of India culture. But all of u can get Nivarna. Buddha means commonly Teacher. When U were second sex or others, the India society would not accept Ur words at that time. But U can get Nivarna like Buddha
Interesting topic. It makes me wonder what the Buddha would say to trans people. Trans people feel like they were born into the wrong body. Wouldn't that be considered identifying with a permanent self? It seems to kind of be in conflict with what you described in the video. I know that a lot of trans people suffer when they're transitioning. It makes me wonder what the Buddha would say to them to help them deal with their suffering. I'm also interested in how Buddhist cultures such as that of Cambodia, Myanmar, Thailand, etc. deal with LGBT issues.
Thanks for the question Afanasi. The sutta To Vāseṭṭha that I cited in the video makes clear that the Buddha would have no problem with transsexuality as such. The problem trans people have has to do with social and cultural mores that treat them as secondary citizens.
@@DougsDharma Thanks for the response. Do you know the answer to the second part of my question (how they're treated in Buddhist cultures)? If not I'm sure I can find it on Google when I get home.
@@DougsDharma Thanks anyway. If I remember correctly I think there was a trans muay thai fighter that went from male to female and continued to fight men as she was transitioning. I also believe that everyone accepted her, but I have to look more into that story. I'll provide you with more info after I research it more.
Great question, I'm not sure there's anything at all about LGBTQ in the early texts, they don't seem to have been a concern back then. In the later texts there is a lot of cultural baggage that gets very complicated. If I can find a good concise scholarly treatment I might do a video though.
The 3rd of 5 Buddhist precepts: *"Kamesu micchacara veramani sikkhapadam samadiyami"* Meaning: *"I undertake the precept to refrain from sexual misconduct."* Those things you mentioned are not accepted in Buddhism as it is against the Law of Nature and a disorder. 👍
Funny how he says there's no essential different between men and women , but apply different rules for women just because.... I'm a little disappointed, such a wise person but at the same time so close minded
Agreed. But, as a secular semi-buddhist, it only proves what I already believe - that mr Shakyamuni may have been wise (indeed) but he was, in the end, only human.
In Christianity: "Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord" - (EPHESIANS 5:22 KJV) "For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body." - (EPHESIANS 5:23 KJV) "Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection." - (1 TIMOTHY 2:11 KJV) "But I suffer not to woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence." - (1 TIMOTHY 2:12 KJV) "For Adam was first formed, then Eve." - (1 TIMOTHY 2:13 KJV) "And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." - (1 TIMOTHY 2:14 KJV) "But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel:" - (DEUTERONOMY 22:20 KJV) "Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you." - (DEUTERONOMY 22:21 KJV) "If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, then they shall both of them die, both the man that lay with the woman, and the woman: so shalt thou put away evil from Israel." - (DEUTERONOMY 22:22 KJV) "If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her;" - (DEUTERONOMY 22:23 KJV) "Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you." - (DEUTERONOMY 22:24 KJV) Edited: In Christianity
In Islam "Men are the protectors And maintainers of women, Because God has given The one more (strength) Than the other, and because They support them From their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard In (the husband's) absence What God would have them guard. As to those women On whose part ye fear Disloyalty and ill-conduct, Admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); But if they return to obedience, Seek not against them Means (of annoyance) For the god is most high, Great (above you all)." - Surah 4:34 "Also (prohibited are) Women already married, Except those Whom your right hands possess: Thus hath God ordained (prohibitions) against you: Except for those, all others Are lawful, provided ye seek (them in marriage) With gifts from your property, Desiring chastity, not lust. Seeing that ye derive Benefit from them, give them Their dowers (at least) As prescribed; but if, After a dower is prescribed, ye agree Manually (to vary it), Their is no blame on you, And God is All-knowing All-wise." - Surah 4:24 "Who abstain from sex," - Surah 23:5 "Except with those joined To them in the marriage bond, Or (the captives) whom Their right hands possess, For (in their case) they are Free from blame." - Surah 23:6 "And those who guard Their chastity," - Surah 70:29 "Except with their wives And the (captives) whom Their right hands possess, To be blamed," - Surah 70:30 Edited : In Islam
This is kinda difficult for me to articulate but I must respectfully disagree with the notion that the karudharma 8 or the 311 precepts were the products of male-dominated culture. They were more based on monastic organisation practicality and sexual dimorphism. Men have multiple biological advantages over women e.g. stronger muscles, higher physical endurance, less hormonal fluctuation, no pregnancy/menstruation. Bhikkuni or Female monks (I'm avoiding the term nun since in Thailand nuns refer to lay-women in white clothes following 8 precepts in a monastery) were easy and attractive targets for criminals and they also face relatively harsher living conditions in technology-devoid environment of the time. So male monks had to become makeshift protectors / rule regulators. Although younger monks had higher ranks than female monks, they were still lower than older monks who had to ensure that no one could abuse the powers. This is a monastic order where everyone theoretically was striving for enlightenment so the ranking was simply a responsibility order to maintain the system not struggle for power. Attachment to the ranking would simply deter the enlightenment. Furthermore, the only ranking that spiritually matters was the levels of enlightenment (4 ariya-sangha). This is difficult to extrapolate in a secular context, but it makes sense with the assumption of karma system. Disrespecting a person with higher level of enlightenment has a scarily tremendous level of punishing karma. Any good young monks would realise this and tried their best to regulate the groups of female monks with respect. Karudharma 8 was basically to reinforcement humbleness to reduce ego in both female monks and monks alike. The fact that a woman cannot become a Buddha was also about female biology. With the assumption of karma and rebirth system, a person who wants to become a Buddha has to gather enough merits in several eons of life cycles. With that tremendous amount of good karma point, male body is simply more convenient for traveling alone, venturing in the forest, not attracting criminals, etc. It is not that women cannot become Buddha since only one in the world/universe can become a Buddha in a given era anyway. A male body is just naturally more suitable for a Buddhahood. Any woman can make a pledge to become Buddhas and work their ways to become one over multiple lives. Being a buddha is the ultimate commitment and sacrifice to help other people, at that point attachment to sex identity should be automatically trivial. This issue is even less significant with a secular mindset. why does it matter which sex can or cannot become a Buddha in this life time since the Buddha's teachings are already in front of us. Thank you again for many great videos especially the core teaching which I find your explanation very helpful for my practice. So these are just my inputs as a person who believes the sutta more literally.
@@DougsDharma I would really love to discuss on this it wont be comfortable to have dialogue here my mail is thaijustcall@gmail.com will surely have healthy discussion on it.Thanks
As ive delved into his teachings on my own (i began practicing during my military service and now live in an area where there arent many temples nearby) i had a few thoughts on this.
As ive learned and practiced, i came across statements along the lines of "dont take my words as gospel, take from them what helps you" i had some thoughts on this particular story. Its always seemed to me that he was a realist alongside his enlightened views, and i wonder if his initial resistance was more along the fear that what would be an extremely liberal policy at the time would discourage society from finding the way. I think that while he knew there was no difference between the people, that was not the case in most peoples mind. I think that his hope with his words was to inspire love and compassion knowing that this would create a time where society was able to accept the concept of people being the same, as such society would then be able to abandon the teachings that were clearly influenced by ancient ideals. That might also explain the inconsistencies with the rest of his teachings.
Just my personal view on this as i find this story very inconsistent with the rest of his teachings.
Yes, it's hard to know for sure David, but that does make a lot of sense, and I tend to think along similar lines.
Thank you very much for the video. I’m a female Theravada practitioner living in Thailand. I know of two Bhikkhuni monasteries in the country (I believe they are the only two) and I’ve been told the founding Bhikkhunis went to Sri Lanka for their ordinations. Do you know why Sri Lanka ordains women while none of the other SE Asian countries do?
It's a good question Charity, not one I know the answer to. I suspect that Sri Lanka may culturally be slightly more open to Bhikkhuni ordination than some of the other countries involved, but am not sure.
A great follow up video might be ordination options for female monastics in the various traditions. Not sure if that interests you but it certainly is a hot topic for dedicated female Western practitioners. Thanks again!
You’re very welcome Charity. That’s not a topic I know a whole lot about but I’ll definitely keep it in mind!
I think it's a cultural thing as well. Bhikkhuni Sanghamitta is revered in Sri Lanka for having brought the sapling of the Bodhi tree from India. And, although she was not a Bhikkhuni, Princess Hemamala is told to have smuggled Buddha's tooth relic to Sri Lanka by hiding it in her hair. These scenes are commonly depicted in Buddhist temples, so maybe that helps to normalize the idea of women playing important roles in Buddhism.
Very important discussion. Thanks.
You're very welcome SmileBot. 🙏
Great video!....treasure all the information, especially about the role of females in Buddhism
As you had said so in your other talk about ordination of bhikkunis in Buddhism, it's all to do with the 'male gatekeepers', it's generally societal values, especially during the ancient times.
Thanks very much for sharing....💝🌻
Yes exactly Pauline. A lot of outdated societal values ...
Very well research and reflecting. I have learned a lot and appreciate how you study early text, compare to the later tradition and show connection to the nowadays questions. I hope the Buddhist people should have such an approach.
I think the Buddha did aware of the patriarchy society of India in his time and adjust his community in someway that people could accept it in the same time still encourage the spiritual ability for the female disciples as we can see in anguttara Nikaya that mentioned 10 great Bhikkhunis had been praised by Buddha for their different talents as he did with the bhikkhus( the same for male and female laypersons too).
About the Theravadin Bhikkhunis , I think it is not about female equality(which is confirmed in every aspect) but more about transmission of different linage of schools or sects until we can overcome that border.
Thanks very much for your kind comments Kumārachatra. 🙏
This 'chariot' analogy is found in many traditions. We find it in Plato's Phaedrus with Socrates famous story of the charioteer, we find it in the Bhagavad Gita with Krsna guiding Arjuna in his chariot into battle, and we also find it in Jewish teachings. The Chariot is even one of the trump cards in Tarot (which refers back to Kabbalistic and Judeo-Christian teachings). The Buddhist teachings are only offering their own unique interpretation of the chariot analogy. All the same, Bhikkuni Vajira's contribution is great indeed and worthy of acknowledgement.
Well yes, the chariot is used in many ancient similes. But the Buddhist one is to a different end than the others in expressing non-self. I did an earlier video on the history of this simile in Buddhism in case you’re interested: th-cam.com/video/8_AMrB-HOSg/w-d-xo.html
Just as you said, originally Buddha refused to ordain women as nuns stating that it would cause his teachings to survive half as long i.e. for 500 years rather than 1,000. When Buddha's cousin, Ananda, questioned if there was any reason women couldn't reach enlightenment and enter Nirvana as well as men could Buddha admitted there was no reason. So nuns were allowed but there are unequal rules for nuns - even the most senior nuns are to be considered "junior" to a monk of just one day! And, yes, as you stated these are recorded in the Vinaya-pitaka. In this we find the 8 Garudhammas ("heavy rules"); this includes total subordination of nuns to monks and the most junior monk being ranked above the most experienced nuns, as mentioned. With the Theravada orders of southeast Asia rules requiring the presence of nuns at the ordination of a nun has effectively ended the full ordination of nuns in SE Asia; women there can only be novices. And on Tibetan Buddhism there are some female Tibetan mamas but no nun's orders were ever established.
The one places that can trace its lineage back to the first ordination of nuns is, intriguingly, China and Taiwan i.e. the order of Mahayana. Apparently the Taiwanese nuns still hold a higher status in their country than do the monks and the Zen tradition also had some formidable women Zen masters in its history.
The problem can be said to lie with the fact Buddhist doctrines on the subject of enlightenment of women are contradictory. And I would add to this the varying degrees of misogyny and patriarchy in certain societies within which various Buddhist schools operated and can't be deemed immune to such influences. We know that in Buddhism there are different schools and sects that do not follow the same scriptures, and texts regarded as authentic by one school not deemed authentic by others, and scriptures disagreeing e.g. the Larger Sukhavatruyuha - which contains a passage typically interpreted as meaning women must be reborn as men before they can enter Nirvana - differing from the Vimalakirti sutra which teaches the genders are essentially unreal just as Buddha had stated, "In all things, there is neither male nor female."
These days most Buddhist women regard institutional sexism to be vestiges of Asian patriarchal culture that can be surgically excised from Dharma and some western monastic orders are co-ed and have women and men following the same rules. There's certainly a movement towards equality but with schools like the Theravada orders it's likely to happen much more slowly e. some women from the Theravada tradition have been ordained as Theravadic nuns in the presence of Mahayana nuns but this isn't typically accepted by Theravada monastic orders.
Indeed so Kybele, thanks for your information and thoughts! 🙏
In founding this Order of Bikkhunis the Buddha, foreseeing the future repercussions, remarked: *"If, Ananda, women had not received permission to renounce the world and enter the homeless state under the doctrine and discipline proclaimed by the Thathaghatha, the holy life would have lasted long and Sublime Dhamma would have survived for thousand years. But since women have entered this homeless state, the holy life would not last long and the Sublime Dhamma would now remain only for five hundred years."*
The Buddha added, *"Just as, Ananda, houses in which there are many women and but few men are easily violated by burglars, even so, under whatsoever doctrine and discipline women are permitted to renounce the world and enter the homeless state, that Holy Life will not last long.*
*And just as a man would in anticipation build an embankment to a great reservoir beyond which the water should not overpass, even so have I in anticipation laid down these Eight Chief Rules for the Bikkhunis, not to be transgressed throughout their lives."*
In making these comments, which may not generally be very palatable to womankind, the Buddha was not in any way making a wholesale condemnation of women but was only Reckoning with the weaknesses of their sex.
Although for several valid reasons the Buddha reluctantly permitted women to enter the Order, it should be stated that it was the Buddha who, for the first time in history of the world, founded an Order for women with rules and regulations. Just as he appointed two chief disciples, Venerable Sariputta and Moggallana for the Order of monks, two chief female disciples Venerable Khema and Uppalavanna were appointed for the Order of nuns as well.
Women don’t need to reborn as men to enter Nirwana. There are many women who entered to Nirvana in Buddhism
Love the website and the videos but i think it would be great if you could make a video on what exactly secular Buddhist practice looks like.
Thanks for the comment and question Keeperoftruth. Thing is, secular Buddhist practice needn't really look any different from normal practice. It's something I might do a video about eventually. Meanwhile if you have questions about secular Buddhism generally I have a playlist that you can see here: th-cam.com/play/PL0akoU_OszRjx0lEV_Bre693AvHWrk-Kp.html
Very interesting, thank you
You're very welcome Jay, thanks for the comment.
I was looking for this type videos . Thank you
You’re very welcome! 🙏
Hello, Doug ! I came across a webpage by Mettanando Bhikkhu in which he explains why the 8 Garudhammas are later additions. He says that the Therigatha describes a situation in which a monk achieves Nirvana because of a nun's teachings. This contradicts the 8th extra rule, implying that the rules were later interpolations by monks. Then, there's Pasenadi praising nun Khema's abilities in front of Buddha. Furthermore, he says that Buddhist Nuns were more active than Monks in the promotion of Buddha's Dhamma. And so on. The point that he is trying to make here is that Buddha's original teachings did not favor men over women. This seems very plausible to me. What about you ?
Yes it sounds plausible to me as well. I've also heard speculation that the garudhammas were later interpolations. IIRC the Vinaya has stories for them which implies they weren't put as requirements for the founding of the Nuns' order.
@@DougsDharma
Yes. Sounds plausible indeed !
Also, according to me, there's another plausible reason for rejecting the claim that Buddha was a sexist or a misogynist. He did not hate anybody, by definition ! So, why would he even think about discriminating against women ? I feel like a person who hates no one is incapable of misogyny or sexism. Seems like Buddha's followers damaged his reputation to a great extent. I am glad that people nowadays are realising that he was innocent, thanks to the works of several Buddhist scholars, like you ! 🙂
@@DipayanPyne94 well the way you were debating in the Nihilism video, I didn't thought I would see you in a secular Buddhist video. I thought you were too traditional. Since I follow Buddhism in a secular way I don't care much about the debate of Self vs non-Self and can also follow other philosophies.
@@playmobilegamescodm
I was into Buddhism for quite sometime. It was, in some ways, a mistake. I have moved on. I have learnt so much more. I am glad I am back to Science now. Nothing better than STEM.
That reminds me of something. Have you finally understood energy ? If yes, great. I will simply repeat it. Energy is just a property. Properties are useful because they measure something we want to know. Properties are not real. Matter and Space are. Both Matter and Space are understood with the help of their respective properties. Material Properties and Spatial Properties. Simple.
And yeah, I will repeat this. Don't explore Buddhism anymore. Big waste of time. Stick to STEM alone.
@@playmobilegamescodm
I have a Master's degree in Engineering. Are you gonna trust me now ?
Anyway, here's an important point for you. The APPEAL TO AUTHORITY FALLACY. There are NO authorities when it comes to Knowledge. Knowledge is Knowledge in it's own right.
A scientist isn't right because he is a scientist. He is right only if he says something that is Factual or Logical. What gives us facts. Well, Empirical Evidence. That's based on Observation. What's the role of properties then ? Well, as I said, they are just numbers. Nick Lucid said the exact same thing (doesn't mean that it makes right only because he said it).
Hello .. First of it's a great video and may i ask you the name of the text you are talking about in the video? The text in which the conversation between ananda and buddhanis recorded??
Hi Shweta, the text is in AN 8.51: suttacentral.net/an8.51/en/sujato . I think it also appears in the Vinaya.
Sir, after watching this video I was scared that I might start believing in gender roles due to practice of vipassana. So can I start practicing vipassana without being scared right? I think that equality is best and right.
Thanks doug for previous answer, I also want to ask that, does current buddhists keep women AT EQUAL STATUS AS OF MEN? and do they give women equal respect as men? Do they consider women as equally capable as of men? Do they force women into any old traditions or rules? What is your experience? Do they believe in patriarchy? Please just answer my these few questions. I will be very greatful..❤
Again, this totally depends on the people and the group. As you know, much of contemporary society is patriarchal, and sanghas are made up of people who live in that society. But the sanghas I know best strive for equality. That is not, of course, to say that all of them do. See: th-cam.com/video/9lhyjbhrIRs/w-d-xo.html
Great video man, a lot of details covered.
I just want to ask one thing that does current buddhism and meditation practitioners believe in gender roles??
Does practicing buddhism will make me believe in gender roles. Please answer, thank you.
Thanks ASG! I don't think Buddhist practice will lead to any such beliefs.
I want to ask that what today's vipassana practitioners and buddhism followers(and also big leaders like SN goenka) believe or think about women? Do they believe in complete equality and women empowerment or not?. Do they believe in old gender roles or not? I really want to know these things before start following buddhism and vipassana. And what are your views on gender equality?? And can I safely follow vipassana without being afraid to be brainwashed to belive in inequality? Please answer thank you.
I think it depends on the practitioner, but all the ones I'm familiar with are very much into equality of all kinds.
@@DougsDharma so are you sure that Vipassana will not force/teach me to believe in Gender roles right? It will make me see people as HUMANS instead of their genders right. I am concerned Please reply..
Hello doug, great work, I want to know about the views of current buddhists on gender roles. Do they oppose it? Do they support women's freedom and education and jobs?. Please answer. Waiting for your reply . ❤
It totally depends on the person, GIRI. There's no single answer to give. That said, all the Buddhists I know support women's freedom, education, and jobs.
Question: To what extent - I ask in this video because of the perhaps mistaken belief that the Buddha had certain marks on him - does Buddhism ascribe the way things are to a creator or some such? Is it even important to the Buddha who or what created this reality in which we live?
The Buddha essentially rejects the notion that the way things are is due to a creator. I touched on some of this in an early video of mine: th-cam.com/video/QOQiZbAPtW4/w-d-xo.html . And the general issue as to whether the universe is infinite or finite in time is one of his "unanswered questions": th-cam.com/video/59FXAW3AS2I/w-d-xo.html
@@DougsDharma Wonderful! Thank you.
Doug, in the Bahudhatukasutta i.e MN 115, Buddha says very clearly that women can't become Buddhas, Wheel Turning Monarchs etc. Is the sutta accurate ? The sutta where Buddha gives extra rules for women after Ananda's request is problematic, as per scholars, such as Rita Gross, but what about MN 115 ? I understand that Buddha was Androcentric, but did he really believe, at some point in his life, that women can't become Buddhas ? MN 115 suggests exactly that. What do I make of it ?
It's hard to say Dipayan. The Buddha certainly lived in a male-dominated society, in which it seems to have been inconceivable that women could become monarchs. Since the Buddha was thought of in monarchic terms (as a kind of substitute for, or shadow of, a wheel turning monarch), it may be that even the Buddha himself couldn't envision a woman as a Buddha.
@@DougsDharma Ok, Doug. I understand. Thanks a LOT ! 😄
Thanks for an interesting video. I was also wondering why was Buddha at the beginning so strict about women and needed to be convinced by Ánanda...Was Ánanda somehow more enlightened than Buddha? Should´nt an enlightened being be above some societal, patriarchical etc. patterns? Vinaya in theravada even goes so strict that a monk can´t be in one room with a woman alone. That´s not much of a trust (saddhá) towards monks at this point. When we would use this kind of logic to monks who are gays or lesbians, they coudn´t be in one room with the same gender, which makes no sense. Thanks for explanation.
Yes it is a bit weird isn’t it!
डग तुम दूनीया के महान धर्मप्रचारक हो हम सब बौद्ध मित्रों को लेकर बड़ा मंदिर बनायेंगे ❄❄🌙🌙
so are you sure that Vipassana will not force/teach me to believe in any Gender roles and discrimination right? It will make me see people as HUMANS instead of their genders right. I am concerned and little scared Please reply..
Why do you think that insight would do any such thing? I can't think of a reason.
I am really afraid that I might become sexist and against women rights and freedom and equality by practicing vipassana, so I want to ask that is it true or not ? And also what are your views about gender equality and does following meditaions effect it in any way??? Please answer.
Personally I can't see how Vipassana would make you become sexist. If anything it should work to make you more open to the world and to compassion for others. Though if you are particularly concerned, consider including some lovingkindness and compassion meditation along with the vipassana.
Hello, thank you for the video. I am a Vajrayana female buddhist, and I think the reason why Buddha initially resisted the idea of letting women become nuns were because of the society and also may be because of our biological needs. Since there were certain laws monks had to abide with, you can go through those laws and you will see that this kind of laws would have made it harder for a female practitioner to practice during those times. It is not because women are incapable, but women generally are weaker to be honest. Also because of that there were issues during buddha's time that nuns were almost rapped or may be even rapped many times. His intentions, though it may seem very male oriented during that time, it only came from the place of concern and compassion.
Thanks for your input. 🙏
Sounds like my catholic aunt justifying why women have never been allowed to be priests.
@@elvil Fr😆🙏🏼
Doug, I have been having a Debate with someone over the last few days about 'Women in Buddhism'. I have 2 Questions :
1) Can we be sure that Buddha did NOT hate women or look down upon them ?
2) Are there any Suttas where Buddha Praises or Encourages Bhikkhunis or Women, in General ??
The Buddha certainly did praise Bhikkhunis and women lay followers, since there are suttas where he lauds certain of them as being the best at certain dharmic skills. He also praised talks by Bhikkhunis, and said before he died that he wouldn't pass on until he'd set up a sangha of Bhikkhus, Bhikkhunis, lay men and lay women. So no, he didn't hate women, that's for sure, though he seems to have been quite androcentric in focusing around the concerns of men rather than women. I'd read Rita Gross's book Buddhism After Patriarchy for a good look at the Buddha's viewpoint from an incisive woman writer.
@@DougsDharma Alright ! Thanks, Doug ! It is quite Surprising to me that Many of Buddha's Teachings on Ethics/Morals are Completely Compatible with Modern Day Human Rights. That's why, despite being a Free Thinker, I like to take Refuge in Buddha's Dhamma/Dharma. However, some Suttas concern me, every once in a while ! Anyway, Thanks for your Beautiful Channel ! 🙏🏼😄
@THISUL WICKRAMARACHCHI Oh. Do you remember the Sutta where Buddha says that ?
Buddha did not hate women or looked down upon them, that would be totally contrary to his teachings.
I am a Buddhist woman myself. If you would like watch this video on the subject:
th-cam.com/video/sorGNjvcHKk/w-d-xo.html
Great video. The notion of a woman being reborn as a man to attain awakening is really absurd or even idiotic since enlightenment/awakening is not something physical, so how is it constrained by gender. Also, the problem with sexual tantric practices from what I have learned from reading Dzongsar Jamyang Khyentse Rinpoche's works is that they were secret practices which the Tibetans received from the Indian Vajra masters, but the Tibetans didn't keep it secret or did a good job at that
Yes it's a complicated issue and hopefully in time wiser heads will prevail.
Sex tantric has been banned in Tibet and Bhutan,but there are still some practicing it. I don't approve it as it's exploiting a young maiden as sex tool. She is the one who feels very hurt.
@@vinnysing1324 I agree that it is sexual exploitation. However the Early Vajrayana Masters (Mahasiddhas) that practised tantric sex were genuine adepts. They could be considered unorthodox in kinder terms or mad men, they were beyond conventional norms. For instance; They didn't differentiate between dog urine and drinking water. The problem is that in modern times, they are charlatans who act as they are Mahasiddhas of the past but in reality are just frauds
@@vinnysing1324 I agree that it is sexual exploitation since the so called masters who do it act as they were the Mahasiddhas of the Ancient Era when they are just charlatans in the end
If it's significant to point out that one of the famous analogies was "actually attributed to a female", that is a sign of lack of egality, not the opposite. Buddhism has issues of putting women under men in ranking, power and applies stricter rules to them, as is the case with any major global religion started in an ancient and sexist society.
Yes, unfortunately that is true. Thanks Aimee.
@@DougsDharma It was very upsetting to hear the Dali Lama say that if he had a female successor she would have to be attractive enough for people to pay attention to her.
Even in modern times the ills of widespread inequality plagues the most renowned of us.
Christianity
"Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord" - EPHESIANS 5:22
"For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body." - EPHESIANS 5:23
"Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection." - (1 TIMOTHY 2:11 KJV)
"But I suffer not to woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence." - (1 TIMOTHY 2:12 KJV)
"For Adam was first formed, then Eve." - (1 TIMOTHY 2:13 KJV)
"And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." - (1 TIMOTHY 2:14 KJV)
"But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel:" - (DEUTERONOMY 22:20 KJV)
"Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you." - (DEUTERONOMY 22:21 KJV)
"If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, then they shall both of them die, both the man that lay with the woman, and the woman: so shalt thou put away evil from Israel." - (DEUTERONOMY 22:22 KJV)
"If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her;" - (DEUTERONOMY 22:23 KJV)
"Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you." - (DEUTERONOMY 22:24 KJV)
Islam
"Men are the protectors And maintainers of women, Because God has given The one more (strength) Than the other, and because They support them From their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard In (the husband's) absence What God would have them guard.
As to those women On whose part ye fear Disloyalty and ill-conduct, Admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); But if they return to obedience, Seek not against them Means (of annoyance)
For the god is most high, Great (above you all)." - Surah 4:34
"Also (prohibited are) Women already married, Except those Whom your right hands possess: Thus hath God ordained (prohibitions) against you: Except for those, all others Are lawful, provided ye seek (them in marriage) With gifts from your property, Desiring chastity, not lust. Seeing that ye derive Benefit from them, give them Their dowers (at least) As prescribed; but if, After a dower is prescribed, ye agree Manually (to vary it), Their is no blame on you, And God is All-knowing All-wise." - Surah 4:24
"Who abstain from sex," - Surah 23:5
"Except with those joined To them in the marriage bond, Or (the captives) whom Their right hands possess, For (in their case) they are Free from blame." - Surah 23:6
"And those who guard Their chastity," - Surah 70:29
"Except with their wives And the (captives) whom Their right hands possess, To be blamed," - Surah 70:30
The Eight Chief Rules are as follows:
1. A Bikkhuni, even of a hundred years standing by Upasampada, should salute a Bikkhu, rise up before him, reverence him, and perform all proper duties towards him though he had received the higher ordination that very day.
2. A Bikkhuni should not spend a Retreat (Vassa) in a place where there is no Bikkhu.
3. Every fortnight a Bikkhuni should ask from the Order of Bikkhus the time of Uposatha meeting and when a Bikkhu would come to Admonish them.
4. The Pavarana ceremony after the Retreat should be held by a Bikkhuni in the presence of both Bikkhus and Bikkhunis (to inquire whether through any of the three ways of seeing, hearing, or suspicion a wrong has been done.)
5. A Bikkhuni who has committed a major offence should undergo Manatta discipline in the presence of the Order of both Bikkhus and Bikkhunis.
6. A female novice (Sikkamana), who is trained in the six rules for two years, should receive the Higher Ordination from the Order of both Bikkhus and Bikkhunis.
7. A Bikkhuni should on no account rebuke or abuse a Bikkhu.
8. Henceforth Bikkhunis should not give admonition to Bikkhus, but Bikkhus should Admonish Bikkhunis.
Then Venerable Ananda mentioned them to Maha Prajapathi Gothami and she agreed to abide by those Eight Chief Rules. By their acceptance she automatically received the Higher Ordination.
One of the ten Sikh Gurus (Sikhism is a much later Dharmic traditional than Buddhism) bestowed equal rights to women in all respects, saying that women give birth to kings, so why should they be treated less than men. Hence, Sikh women have taken up all types of roles, including "saint-warriors" against Islamic rulers in India prior to the British empire. It is indeed unfair to nuns that Theravada Buddhism is so patriachal in practice. This will change because of the pressure that the modern western Buddhist nuns will exert on the monks. Anyway, it is not a bad idea for nuns to stay away from the monks, because men enjoy dominating women and make them lose their self-esteem😀 Maybe the monks think the converse and want to keep nuns at bay😀 The gender game goes on everywhere....
Yes indeed Harbajan, it's quite sad. Interesting to hear about Sikhism, a religion about which I know next to nothing! 🙏
Doug, I am just curious to know only. Do you pray to Buddha with incense?
I don't pray, but use incense every once in awhile when I meditate.
Dear Doug. love your videos. I need to ask:What do you think about Buddhas very humilating quotes on women, like that quote where he would rather put his penis in a snakes mouth rather than a woman or that other comment on that the worst scent is of a woman, that one in other words should stay VERY clear of any female.. I love buddhists thinking except this. this is extremely shocking to discover ..
This verse is simply means he would prefer dying from snake biting on his penis than to sex with women and live (as a monk)
Good history lesson, but would have had more meaning if given by women from their experience and perspective.
Yes of course Mohamjip, very much so. 🙏
Any version of this story would have been different if written by a different author and would have had different meaning, not more or less. To say this version would have more meaning had it come from a woman is despicably sexist.
🌈🕊❤️🙏🏾
in buddha days, discrimanation system of India, women can' be Buddha to help englightment to society. Society did not accept women teachers. But women can enlightenment to theirself, can get nivarna liked Buddha. because of the society of India. When u become Budda, u have to share ur teaching to society. Women are not allowed to do that action at that time. So buddha said like that.
sadhana targets mind & consciousness, these are universal, independently of age, gender, creed, nationality, status, education, etc ... women are equally qualified for pursuing sadhana & the higher goals of inner yoga or buddhism. somehow there is not so many registered awakened female Boddhisattva, maybe there were but not known to us in the same quantity as male.
bhikkhuni(woman monk) none in Theravada.
Yes thanks ASNM, this depends who you talk to. 🙂
I am from Sri Lanka. Theravada Buddhism is being developed in our country. In the early days of our country there were Bhikkunis . But later the Bhikkuni Sasana decline . So I think it has influenced Theravada Buddhism in Myanmar, Thailand, Cambodia, Laos and other countries.
Stop clinging to your meat suit - Buddhism 101. Thanks so much!
🙏
Thank you, I was starting to feel I was not welcome. 😂 🙏
You’re very welcome Lisa, of course! 🙂🙏
What are rules for women in buddhism who are normal women (not bikkhunis) pls make video on it ❤
For laypeople the five precepts are the only real training rules, and they are the same for everyone. Here is a video I did on them awhile back: th-cam.com/video/Ltr0gPj6s50/w-d-xo.html
plz this topic to repeat in hindi language because i don't understand English Lang
I'm sorry shifali, I don't speak Hindi. If you know of someone who can translate the video into Hindi that would be great ... !
6:48 🐿️🐿️🐿️
😄😄😄 Yes they do get around don't they!
According to Buddhism, all can be in Nivarna whoever U r, man, woman or gay and whatever U r. But ..the india society in Buddha time, people would not accept Ur words about dhmma if U r woman or LGBTQ because of India culture. But all of u can get Nivarna. Buddha means commonly Teacher. When U were second sex or others, the India society would not accept Ur words at that time. But U can get Nivarna like Buddha
Interesting topic. It makes me wonder what the Buddha would say to trans people. Trans people feel like they were born into the wrong body. Wouldn't that be considered identifying with a permanent self? It seems to kind of be in conflict with what you described in the video. I know that a lot of trans people suffer when they're transitioning. It makes me wonder what the Buddha would say to them to help them deal with their suffering. I'm also interested in how Buddhist cultures such as that of Cambodia, Myanmar, Thailand, etc. deal with LGBT issues.
Thanks for the question Afanasi. The sutta To Vāseṭṭha that I cited in the video makes clear that the Buddha would have no problem with transsexuality as such. The problem trans people have has to do with social and cultural mores that treat them as secondary citizens.
@@DougsDharma Thanks for the response. Do you know the answer to the second part of my question (how they're treated in Buddhist cultures)? If not I'm sure I can find it on Google when I get home.
Hi Afanasi, I really don't.
@@DougsDharma Thanks anyway. If I remember correctly I think there was a trans muay thai fighter that went from male to female and continued to fight men as she was transitioning. I also believe that everyone accepted her, but I have to look more into that story. I'll provide you with more info after I research it more.
Great, thanks Afanasi!🙏
any videos about LGBTQ and Buddhism? Thanks
Great question, I'm not sure there's anything at all about LGBTQ in the early texts, they don't seem to have been a concern back then. In the later texts there is a lot of cultural baggage that gets very complicated. If I can find a good concise scholarly treatment I might do a video though.
The 3rd of 5 Buddhist precepts: *"Kamesu micchacara veramani sikkhapadam samadiyami"*
Meaning: *"I undertake the precept to refrain from sexual misconduct."*
Those things you mentioned are not accepted in Buddhism as it is against the Law of Nature and a disorder. 👍
Funny how he says there's no essential different between men and women , but apply different rules for women just because....
I'm a little disappointed, such a wise person but at the same time so close minded
Yes it is disappointing that’s for sure.
Yes and that makes me feel bad
Agreed. But, as a secular semi-buddhist, it only proves what I already believe - that mr Shakyamuni may have been wise (indeed) but he was, in the end, only human.
In Christianity:
"Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord" - (EPHESIANS 5:22 KJV)
"For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body." - (EPHESIANS 5:23 KJV)
"Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection." - (1 TIMOTHY 2:11 KJV)
"But I suffer not to woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence." - (1 TIMOTHY 2:12 KJV)
"For Adam was first formed, then Eve." - (1 TIMOTHY 2:13 KJV)
"And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." - (1 TIMOTHY 2:14 KJV)
"But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel:" - (DEUTERONOMY 22:20 KJV)
"Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you." - (DEUTERONOMY 22:21 KJV)
"If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, then they shall both of them die, both the man that lay with the woman, and the woman: so shalt thou put away evil from Israel." - (DEUTERONOMY 22:22 KJV)
"If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her;" - (DEUTERONOMY 22:23 KJV)
"Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you." - (DEUTERONOMY 22:24 KJV)
Edited: In Christianity
In Islam
"Men are the protectors And maintainers of women, Because God has given The one more (strength) Than the other, and because They support them From their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard In (the husband's) absence What God would have them guard.
As to those women On whose part ye fear Disloyalty and ill-conduct, Admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); But if they return to obedience, Seek not against them Means (of annoyance)
For the god is most high, Great (above you all)." - Surah 4:34
"Also (prohibited are) Women already married, Except those Whom your right hands possess: Thus hath God ordained (prohibitions) against you: Except for those, all others Are lawful, provided ye seek (them in marriage) With gifts from your property, Desiring chastity, not lust. Seeing that ye derive Benefit from them, give them Their dowers (at least) As prescribed; but if, After a dower is prescribed, ye agree Manually (to vary it), Their is no blame on you, And God is All-knowing All-wise." - Surah 4:24
"Who abstain from sex," - Surah 23:5
"Except with those joined To them in the marriage bond, Or (the captives) whom Their right hands possess, For (in their case) they are Free from blame." - Surah 23:6
"And those who guard Their chastity," - Surah 70:29
"Except with their wives And the (captives) whom Their right hands possess, To be blamed," - Surah 70:30
Edited : In Islam
💙Jay Bhim 💙 Namo Buddhay 💙
Jai Chutki Jai Kalia
Day chilli lam dayshililam Jay chilli aam
speak loudly kalu ram say it loudly khatik shyam speak loudly
1234567890GB RAM
JOR SE BOLO 12345678910 GB RAM
@@OneAndOnly-S9 okay chamar 👍
JAI MAA KAALI!!!! HARA HARA MAHADEV!!! 🙏🙏
Women
.
"male gaze" Oh my!
10.35 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Not talking about BDSM 😅😂😅😂
This is kinda difficult for me to articulate but I must respectfully disagree with the notion that the karudharma 8 or the 311 precepts were the products of male-dominated culture. They were more based on monastic organisation practicality and sexual dimorphism. Men have multiple biological advantages over women e.g. stronger muscles, higher physical endurance, less hormonal fluctuation, no pregnancy/menstruation. Bhikkuni or Female monks (I'm avoiding the term nun since in Thailand nuns refer to lay-women in white clothes following 8 precepts in a monastery) were easy and attractive targets for criminals and they also face relatively harsher living conditions in technology-devoid environment of the time. So male monks had to become makeshift protectors / rule regulators. Although younger monks had higher ranks than female monks, they were still lower than older monks who had to ensure that no one could abuse the powers. This is a monastic order where everyone theoretically was striving for enlightenment so the ranking was simply a responsibility order to maintain the system not struggle for power. Attachment to the ranking would simply deter the enlightenment. Furthermore, the only ranking that spiritually matters was the levels of enlightenment (4 ariya-sangha). This is difficult to extrapolate in a secular context, but it makes sense with the assumption of karma system. Disrespecting a person with higher level of enlightenment has a scarily tremendous level of punishing karma. Any good young monks would realise this and tried their best to regulate the groups of female monks with respect. Karudharma 8 was basically to reinforcement humbleness to reduce ego in both female monks and monks alike.
The fact that a woman cannot become a Buddha was also about female biology. With the assumption of karma and rebirth system, a person who wants to become a Buddha has to gather enough merits in several eons of life cycles. With that tremendous amount of good karma point, male body is simply more convenient for traveling alone, venturing in the forest, not attracting criminals, etc. It is not that women cannot become Buddha since only one in the world/universe can become a Buddha in a given era anyway. A male body is just naturally more suitable for a Buddhahood. Any woman can make a pledge to become Buddhas and work their ways to become one over multiple lives. Being a buddha is the ultimate commitment and sacrifice to help other people, at that point attachment to sex identity should be automatically trivial.
This issue is even less significant with a secular mindset. why does it matter which sex can or cannot become a Buddha in this life time since the Buddha's teachings are already in front of us.
Thank you again for many great videos especially the core teaching which I find your explanation very helpful for my practice. So these are just my inputs as a person who believes the sutta more literally.
Thanks for your thoughts Chanati. 🙏
A woman invented an analogy? Wow
Not agreed...
That's OK Rohit, but if you think I got something wrong do let me know. 🙏
@@DougsDharma I would really love to discuss on this it wont be comfortable to have dialogue here my mail is thaijustcall@gmail.com will surely have healthy discussion on it.Thanks
Don't agree? With what?