The Greatest Sea Battle in Pirate Cinema
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I've previously made a full video analyzing the history behind the first Pirates of the Caribbean move. In this analysis I didn't have the time to cover the sea battle between the Black Pearl and Interceptor. It is probably one of the best pirate sea battles seen in cinema, and for being part of this franchise, strangely accurate.
#pirates #piratesofthecaribbean #blackpearl #jacksparrow
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Master and Commander is not a movie about pirates and does not take place during the Golden Age of Piracy(1630-1730) which I cover on this channel. There are other channels out there which cover Master and Commander and Napoleonic Wars in good detail but not so many which show the GAoP the same respect.
One of the interesting things about this movie is that a lot of conflict could have been avoided had they not been pirates acting like pirates, like "hey Will can we borrow your blood and throw that coin back" would be all they needed to ask.
And Elizabeth assumed they were going to sacrifice her, and was confused when they only cut her hand and Barbosa was like “we only needed a drop, remember?”
And then at the end one of the pirates told Will that they only needed a drop so he wouldn’t be scared like Elizabeth was, and some random guy says “no we’re going to kill him just in case”.
Like, ok, not only does that not logically check out at all, you only just guaranteed that Will and his allies need to fight you to the death to save themselves when they didn’t before.
almost as funny as Whyte kids who dye from skin cancer
ask a dog not to roll in shit
@@GoldandGunpowderI ask mine multiple times a week
@@thevenator3955Well Assumption is The Mother of all Fuck Ups.
Not pirate related.....but master and commander has some outstanding detail in regards to naval combat.
Whyte people dye n sun 👏🏿
Love that film!
Tragic they released that film around the same time as Pirates of the Caribbean so it didn't do well, really needed a series of films
@prich0382 it is a book series, would have loved to have seen another Jack Aubrey film.
@@prich0382 it was lord of the rings actually i think.... even worse
So THAT'S what the Black Pearl is! I've been laboring under the assumption that she was a galleon. An East Indiaman like the Amsterdam, Gotheborg or Bonhomme Richard makes so much more sense given the setting in the 1730s, and since in the tie-in books Jack first made her acquaintance while working with the East India Company.
What was the book called?
Not exactly. East Indiaman did not refer to a specific type, just rough design principles applied to a general merchant vessel. The Pearl is a late Galleon, with some features more common to 18th century vessels, but largely, as a design, mixes a lot of different types from different eras
@@ScramasaxeRA I've always found it interesting how she has a lanteen as well as staysails and jibs, when most ships with staysails and jibs would have gaff instead. Also how she has a ship's wheel despite the overall build of the ship suggesting more of a whipstaff steering mechanism. It's always been my headcanon the Pearl is an older vessel which went through a bunch of retrofits explaining her weird mishmash of eras (like she probably didn't have jibsails or a wheel originally).
@ScramasaxeRA It’s honestly possible she was just some old ship the east India trading company bought before Jack deserted and brought the ship into piracy.
3:22
It would’ve been pretty cool if the pearls flag was flying this way and the interceptors was flying correctly, it’d mean that the ghost ship was actually sailing faster than the wind.
That would have been so cool
You forgot 1 detail and that is when Jack Sparrow is in the jail cell on the Black Pearl he says "stop blowing holes in my ship!" Which I think is true you don't want your pirate ship to get holes in it cause it's probably hard to repair it, it's not like the navy where you can return to port and get repairs done easily
Yeah kinda
For the Intercepter getting a leak, it’s entirely possible the right amount of stress from the combination of cannon fire and Club-Hauling led to the weakening of the hull. It’s not unheard of for the cannons recoil to cause damage to the ship (helped that they stopped bolting them to the floor)
Good analysis. Only one point of contention, regarding visible bullets with trails.
The carribean is extremely humid, and one feature mentioned in two sources I have state that faint white vapor trails would form from projectiles if the humidity was particularly extreme, Especially large shot like cannon balls. Additionally, having personally fired Hundreds of shots with blacknpowder, I can say with confidence that the bullets are actually just slightly visible once outside the gunsmoke, especially fired from pistols or with insufficent charge or wadding in any barrel length. It's easiest to see if the bullet travels within 15 degrees of parallel to your line of vision, better if the backdrop is a bit dark but lighting is good.
So visible bullets in the movie is actually a reasonably accurate concept, especially considering the level of accuracy displayed elsewhwere in the franchise.
Regarding the Interceptor starting to sink, I always took it as damage sustained when the foremast came down. That is when you see collapsed wood and water spraying below the deck, so it may be the bottom part of the broken mast that damaged the hull as it slipped to one side.
10:00 there’s a fine line when it comes to glorifying violence Vs glorifying and respecting bravery and struggle. If a historical film shows warriors fending off an enemy and bravely standing against them, that’s not glorifying violence, that’s respecting the bravery of the man holding against seemingly impossible odds. Glorifying violence would be glorifying the violence itself, glorifying the harm of another person for whatever reason.
if you show violence without consequence that is glorifying it and giving a false impression of what it is. it is not a play. you can look at Master and Commander for a movie that gives violence and heroism a just portrayal. inb4 "muh disney kids movie". Treasure Island and several of its movie adaptations(Takarajima, 1990 version) are incredibly brutal, with the main character(a kid) being threatened with torture and stabbed amongst other unpleasent events. this does not detract from his bravery or the heroism of the main characters, but bolsters it, because it truly shows their determinism. I say this as a military man and someone who's been in violent near-death situations myself
@@GoldandGunpowder I agree, if I had to give my pick for a movie that respects bravery just abhors violence it’d be Zulu, we commend both the British and the Zulus for their bravery and determination but are also saddened by the violence in it. It’s tragic and it lingers on that tragedy. It doesn’t necessarily change the morality of the situation, like are you really going to feel sympathy when brutal, murdering undead pirates who can’t feel pain are given their comeuppance? If you watch a WW2 film are you going to be saddened by the utter defeat of a Waffen SS division?
But it of course, doesn’t change that having to perform this violence in the first place is a tragedy.
I don't even think you have to abhor violence, rather that you need to be honest about it. Violence isn't bad in my opinion, it's often necessary, whatever one thinks of it, and whatever one wishes to do with it(be it a goal considered noble or ignoble). This isn't me applying moral values, simply me wishing to see things as they are presented in an honest light. Because literature(including movies) inspires people to do things, and if they present violence or other themes like adventure in a wrong light, the inspired might get a wrong impression. For example, a meek person joining the army, or starting a fight. Adventure is also romanticized. Historically, adventuring has been dangerous and risky. It's less tempting to portray the disease, aching feed, fear of finances, lack of communication with foreign languages. But again, necessary to inform people that they're either getting involved in something they want, or don't want.
@@GoldandGunpowder"If you show violence without consequence, that is glorifying it"
Personally I'd say that's more "glory-neutral". It sounds like what you want is for violence to be shown as expressly inglorious, rather than just simply not having it be glorified, while not realizing there's a chance for some fiction to rest between these two polar ends.
why over complicate things? Let’s just all agree to glorify violence and be done with it
This is definitely one of my favorite sea battles. But I still wondered at how fast both ships were going at dead astern. I hope you do give an analysis of the Black Pearl being chased by the Flying Dutchman?
A muzzle loading gatling gun, thats all there is to say...
Probably my favorite of the franchise ship-to-ship battles as well. I like how the "behind the scenes" documentary amps up the battle.
Trivia bit: have you ever noted that in the chapter, "On Stranger Tides," it is the only onscreen chapter of the franchise that does not feature a ship-to-ship duel?
1:00 it’s established I. The film the pirates are drawn to the cursed gold and can find it if they are within close proximity as was seen at the Swann mansion.
However when at a long distance if the medallion is put in a box or something they cannot sense it, hence the sizable risk of the interceptor getting away and them losing the scent so to speak and this explains Barbossa’s general aggression.
Also you can’t say something is established as fact in lore but also “plot convenience” which isn’t a thing.
so why blow up the ship before seizing the medallion? what if the medallion was sewn into someones clothes, locked in a box, hidden in a secret compartment in the ship's woodwork(something which happened historically)? in the end you're approaching this video wrongly, this is an excuse to talk about history, and explaining how things would've been done to avoid spreading misconceptions, which is why I don't call this video a critique, and which is why I also make it clear when something is my own opinion
@@GoldandGunpowder I think the main reason they don't care if it ends up on the bottom of the ocean in a box is because they could dive/walk down there and get it. Even if it's quite deep, they can still get to it even if it's a bit painful. I do agree though, torture would have been easier and honestly more likely for Barbosa to do given he was quite evil in the first film
@@GoldandGunpowderone thing to note is that the pirates only sense the medallion, AFTER it enters the sea in the first movie (and ransack the whole of port royal implying they don't know it's exact location), and although it could just be a coincidence, jack (🐒) only gets to it after it enters the sea again. Perhaps barbossa needed the medallion to enter the sea to find it, hence sink ship.
I know your focus is on the "golden age" period, but I'd love to see you do a video or two on some "latter day" pirates like Benito de Soto or Jean Lafitte, if nothing else than for comparison sake to how pirates in their era operated compared to the "golden age". You've got a refreshingly well-researched approach to history that would be great for covering guys like that, definitely a breath of fresh air on current TH-cam.
You should do a video analyzing Master and Commander
Gold and Gunpowder usually covers Caribbean piracy from the late 17th century up until the early 18th century. It's unlikely that he'll cover anything beyond the Golden Age of Piracy.
Wonderful video and commentary. I like this chase and battle too from a historical point of view. It is much more accurate than one might think. Anyway the critisism is spot on. Fun fact: the gunpowder trail in the film is regular modern smokekess powder which is slow to burn. The old black gunpowder of the era would have burnt far too fast to allow the pirates to escape the Interceptor. In reality a fuse would have been used. Anyway, just some trivia I gave read. Cheers! 🏴☠️
Man you got me hooked on pirate history, fantastic work! Keep it up!
The most optimal wind direction for square rigger is broad reach not directly from behind.
Something i'd like to see a video on is the final confrontation of Beckett on the Endeavour, where the Black Pearl and Flying Dutchman sail alongside and destroy it despite the fact the Endeavour is a 1st rate with more guns per side than either the Black Pearl or flying Dutchman have total.
I've heard someone say that the 9 and 12 pounder guns of them would be utterly unable to penetrate the hull of the Endeavour, let go reach the magazine(s) to blow it up.
It'd be cool to have a video basically putting in words that had the Endeavour fired back, both the Black Pearl and Flying Dutchman would have been utterly torn to shreds by a mix of 32 and 24 pounders.
Unless the Endeavour had a design flaw, but I think it's possible the two ships were aiming at the gun ports.
The soundtrack in the beginning is just awesome
One little thing: a wind dead astern would not allow the use of all your sails. The mizzenmast would block much of the mainmast, which would entirely block the foremast. You'd have to choose which sails would best trim the ship for the wind. A wind off the quarter enables the use of all sails.
11:25 it’s not convenient, they literally set the fuse to give them enough time to leave. And it isn’t ‘just as they leave’ it’s quite a bit of time after they leave.
why blow up the ship in the first place? why make the decision to blow up the ship before the medallion is found? someone else also mentioned that black powder burns faster than what was shown in the movie - the ship would've exploded much earlier
4:40 the interceptor slows down because of the aforementioned dropping of the anchor.
why does the Black Pearl slow down?
Was waiting for a new POTC video! Love these
11:00 The waves were rather high, its possible that one of Pearl´s guns fired when the ship was angled, and hit a part that started flooding afterwards.
Is there a video about how and what types of materials Pirates would use to repair their ships during and after battles?
Uh... wood?
@cleverusername9369 insightful, thanks m8!
To be fair as you say if I was a immortal pirate that could take a cannon ball to the chest I would not bother ducking or if the deck was clear before storming it
Small correction, sail ships most optimal wind direction is somewhat 30 degrees off to stern as then all the sails catch the full wind. Directly astern the sails catch diminished amounts of wind, especially the bow and mid masts.
As he already showed a scene of "black sails" it would be really interesting if he were to do a similar analysis with some of it's battles
wasn't black sails the pirate porn series?
@@fahrradmittelfranken8207 Just skip those scenes as they are unnecessary. I guess they felt inspired by game of thrones
Black Sails is one of the best. The portrayal of Capt Flint is amazing.
Perhaps skip the first season.
Season two and three are the best
@@fahrradmittelfranken8207Black Sails has sex scenes in it, but it's not porn - it wouldn't have been able to be shown on TV if it was. The excessive sex scenes go away in the later seasons.
They're immortal pirate ghosts who would walk the ocean floor, sinking the ship is an option for them and so is just killing them. irl tho I totally agree
8:09 Funny how that eye ended up being Barbossa's Piece of Eight as a Pirate Lord .
on the point of the interceptor "randomly" sinking: the breaking of the mast breaks a hole in the masts base, which opens up a leak, either that or the mast falling damages the hull. its not clear which one of these is the case but it is clear that the destruction of the mast is what causes the sinking
As for the sinking ship, there are historical accounts for pirates sinking a ship they've plundered after they're done, usually in the case of capturing or killing the entire crew, and no way to sail the captured ship, be it from battle damage or not enough crew members of their own.
In good lighting you actually can see firearm projectiles in flight, for example slower modern calibers like .45 acp I've seen personally at an indoor range. It's hard to see but still discernible. I hate to only use personal experience as a source but I am lazy.
I've also noticed that when shooting my BB rifles & pellet pistols in broad daylight as well. I remember reading somewhere that BB guns were used in point shooting training during the Vietnam War as the projectile was easily seen in daylight.
Nice analysis of the battle. As I've seen others have suggested, I would agree with the assessment of general accuracy of the battles shown in "Master & Commander: Far Side of the World," and perhaps, if haven't seen already, worth looking into.
You can absolutely see and feel musket balls flying past you. Early muskets of the day had an average muzzle velocity of 700-800fps. Less than a pellet gun.
Yeah I made a comment about that as well, it's a fast projectile but should still be somewhat visible
Especially with the large calibers these guns were firing.
No those ones were about 1500 fps like a 12 ga , the brown bess were 70 cal. Like a 12 as well
That's not even remotely accurate. 1600s muskets were about 1500 feet per second, by the time of the brown bess it was up to about 1800. Keep in mind modern 9mm ranges from 1300-1500.
@thelordofcringe at around 100 ft it would likely be much slower than muzzle velocity due to the terrible ballistic coefficient, it is not outside the realm of possibility that 1500 fps would degrade to 1300 or so after 100 ft. And muzzle velocity itself would vary greatly based on the quality of powder and projectile
The music in that scene is just pure gold
Is there or will there be a video commentary on the Black Sails series historical accuracy? :)
I have watched every video on your channel since your last was uploaded…. Amazing channel please keep it up
People tend to be compliant under threat. I will need to quote that line sometime.
It is interesting, the first rime we see chasers is the weird quasi-gatlings on the Dutchman.
Somethin left out, if both ships are sailing down wind the chasing ship can overtake by blocking the wind, sailing directly upwind from the ship they are chasing and slowing its quarry down significantly due to the turbulent flow from the pursuing ships sails spoiling much of the wind force directly downwind from them at such short range. This trick is often uses in sailing course racing as a tactic.
A point I think missed. Black pearl isn't far off of being the Queen Ann's revenge. It wouldn't have been smashing holes in a brig because it would be armed with 6 pounders or smaller. We haven't come up with 18 or 24 pounders off queen anns wreck.😊
Black Pearl is armed with 12-pounders
11:06 black powder ignites instantly, the moment a spark touched that ‘fuse’ the ship and everyone on it would have been blown sky high.
Would the wind being dead astern not make the jibs and staysails less effective since they’re parallel with the wind?
Another problem with a dead astern wind is the overlapping of the sails from the mast behind it. Also, a sail propells the ship faster if the wind hits the sails at an angle (Steve Mould has a good video explaining this phenomenon).
yeah I wonder that too. I've played a number of games attempting a somewhat realistic sailing model, and for those games the best point for three mast ships is actually 135, not 180. Are they all wrong?
00:50 yes! Thank you! Someone else knows! Not only do corpses need to be moved by hand, people also lose control of their bowels when they die, ew!
I would say this is a good sea battle for sure! But I cannot deny that the Hornblower tv-series had some epic ones as well!
I've tested The Interceptor. It survived 39 Harpoon Anti Ship Missiles.
Of course, that was a video game.
I allways thought the black pearl was a galleon. Ive been lied to.
Thanks for your evaluation! It was a good, entertaining movie. Master and Commander was, in my opinion, more historically accurate. Have you done an evaluation on THAT movie?
Very interesting analysis! I enjoyed it
I know it’s a bit late but you’re forgetting the part where they do the club hauling it breaks a hole in the hull and starts a leak
I know the Black Pearl is the main ship pf the series, but the Interceptor is still my favorite. She's so sleak and efficiently designed.
We always see rival pirate crews in media, but was it likely that a pirate crew would come the aid of another?
That's if both pirate captains knew one another before they became pirates.
Maybe the swivel gun was using some sort of matchlock for its firing mechanism?
You can make a musketball leave a smoke trail, just rub the ball itself with grease or lard and then wrap it like normal, the fat flash ignites qnd leaves a fairly decent tracer trail.
Thank you i always enjoy your channel. Remember this is Disney but it's the only pirate movies we have had since the older ones.
What do you think of captain Red's nightattack with his brigg using handgrenades and his numerous (old) pirates to capture the "Neptune"?
Wind dead astern actually isn't the fastest for a sailing ship. A 90 degree angle relative to the wind is actually the fastest.
I have a question.
Would chainshot take down the mast in one shot? And could they have raised the mast like Sea of Thieves? Ik they were getting their ass kicked
Considering the ships were fighting parallel, I'm sure that chainshot ripped through a good bit of rigging before hitting the mast, so that repair job will be require far more than three planks.
@@thesnipenieer2144 I hope my question didn’t sound dumb. But like is that how you could repair the mast???
Or like was there a way to fix a broken mast
@@TheCaesarion I mean, of course there are ways to repair broken masts, but I doubt it could happen in combat.
Mast are supported by the keel, because of how much force a mast is subjected to under full sail.
Some planks ain't keeping a broken mast up under sail.
Can you do a couple of videos analysing Black sails?
Another great video, just helping the algorithm ,I would like to say great video
It will be so awesome some day in the future when they make historical movies and games that have more colors than 85% brown grey and white.
Really Big Pirate Crews of those bygone eras..would have "captured & used The Interceptor" for more Piracy..a Really Smart Capt of Crew would assmble atleast 3-4 ships of various Qualities & very rare blow up a ship, maybe take over a diffrent ship..that is bigger & better..& sink ur old ship & use a New Ship for use..until something better comes along.
Ok I'm going to go watch it AGAIN
0:55 This movie is almost 20 years old, are you saying you've misunderstood Barbossa's line the entire time?
With the state of sails Black Pearl had, there was no chance to win the race with Interceptor, theirs being intact.
4:55 SANDVICH!
What about the attack of the flying dutchman? Or salazar origin
Could you please do a video about schooners?
Ahoy, matey!
no comment on the use of chain shot to take down the mast?
Also I think you're mistaken on the blowing up part, I think that very much happened after the battle was over. As seen in the 11:35 shot the Interceptor is still afloat after everyone is already taken captive on the Black Pearl.
Everything else on the blowing up however is true. Just meant to show them as being overly destructive.
Have you ever seen Black Sails? That’s the best in class in the Pirate genre
Great content as always.
very interesting video on a great scene in a great movie!
in terms of the flags flying wrong, theyre probably added in post/designed in that shot to be the prettiest they can be, wide, and balanced in the flow of movement - while other shots when theyre flying normally are real shots with ships that are untouched.
good for cinematography, BAD for accuracy! unless, of course you count that they were using real ships and very good models, which is absolutely fantastic
and i heard that at 5:14, slightly spooked me because i did have tf2 open in menu in the background, and i thought for a second i was accidentally afk in-game!
The flag was flying the correct way the ship was moving forward fast and thats way the flag was in that position for example take a peace of tissue and hold it with arm out then move your arm in one direction then the other and see how the tissue reacts
"Curse is the only Age of Sail movie I have seen where oars are featured on anything larger than a rowboat" Bruh!! Don't tell me you haven't seen THE SEA HAWK starring swashbuckling actor ERROL FLYNN!? The main antagonistic class of Spanish ships is a type of Galleass which features an English slave crew manning oars to give the ship extra speed and maneuverability. Of comparable historical vessel would be the Spanish Armada vessel La Girona, for comparison.... but I digress lol This is an epic video!
I agree with you here
you should to similar video of captain and commander...
What about black sails
The club haul sprang her seams?
This battle is ridiculous. Will insists they must 'stand and fight' even though he knows first-hand that Barbossa and his crew are immortal; they can't be defeated.
He tries to make Jack turn and fighting the Flying Dutchmen in the following movie despite Jones' crew being equally immortal.
The writers at least were smart enough to realise this and filled the ship with mortal EITC sailors and marines in the third film so there were at least someone they could fight equally on a supernatural ship crewed by the living dead.
I’m sorry but the Black Pearl vs the Flying Dutchman was better in my opinion.
Then again I don’t look at pirates of the Caribbean from a historical perspective. I don’t want to ruin the movies
You can see a musket ball in flight if you have the sun at your back. You can even see a bullet traveling at more than twice the speed of sound. I seriously doubt that the pewter forks and spoons they were loading into the barrel would have damaged an iron cannon.
On delicate Surfaces, minor Scratches can happen very quickly and then slowly become a big Problem. I'm a Mechanic, and when removing Pistons from an Engine, great Care must be taken to not let the Connecting Rod touch the Cylinder Liner. Damage from that would be invisible at first, but destroys the Cylinder Liner over the next few thousand Running Hours. The Plungers from Diesel Injection Pumps even are so delicate, that they must not be touched by Hand at all.
I was going to say they were probably going to try an pressgang the prisoners into the crew
Still can't match real battle like the battle of Trafalgar on 1805
What are your thoughts on the movie Master and Commander?
Question, whats your worst sea vessel, ship or otherwise?
Depends on where you were. Caribbean or Red Sea?
Pirates in the caribbean preferred something fast and easily able to overwhelm easy prey. Better if it's shallow draft, to easily escape bigger ships.
In the Red Sea, they preferred full ships as cargo was far more protected and the seas were harsher.
The worst ships for both, most likely, would be flutes, galleons (which barely any existed at this point), and large ships like line ships, which they wouldn't be able to get their hands on them.
The Kon-Tiki expedition raft. Basically bundled reeds lashed together into a ship shape. The construction method was used on the Nile in Ancient Egypt and along the coast of the Americas Pre-Columbus but the example for the expedition was flat bottomed and heavily reliant on calm seas.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kon-Tiki_expedition
Thank you for all of your videos ! I like the way you are correcting inaccurate things about pirates and sailing.
Do you plan to talk about the film Master and Commander ?Even if the movie is not about pirates, there are a lot about tactics and life aboard a ship in it.
Hey I wonder do you know how jolly Rodger was made?
thanks for setting so many things straight, hollywood knows no bounds when it comes to propaganda
I thought the Black Pearl is a Galleon... 🤣🤣🤣
ArghCaptain !! 190 likes
Incorrect. The greatest sea battle from the 18th or 19th centuries involving sailing ships was in the movie "Master and Commander".
the title says "Pirate Cinema", not "18th or 19th centuries involving sailing ships"
What Euro country is this commenter from?
Sweden, literally stated in the Channel Description.
@@Genius_at_Work thankd
10:05 🙄
if you show violence without consequence that is glorifying it and giving a false impression of what it is. it is not a play. you can look at Master and Commander for a movie that gives violence and heroism a just portrayal. inb4 "muh disney kids movie". Treasure Island and several of its movie adaptations(Takarajima, 1990 version) are incredibly brutal, with the main character(a kid) being threatened with torture and stabbed amongst other unpleasent events. this does not detract from his bravery or the heroism of the main characters, but bolsters it, because it truly shows their determinism. I say this as a military man and someone who's been in violent near-death situations myself
It was cliche Hollywood.
There are much better and more believable naval movies, even Master & Commander was a pretty decent one.
Honestly just wish there were more song and dance numbers in the movie series.
We got the one classic Disney style song with the creepy undead pirate reveal, but nothing else throughout the whole series.
Should've been a whole musical movie series.
Bro forgot bout the flying dutchman vs the pearl