A year ago, I bought the Meze 109 Pro and the Topping G5 DAC. Love the sound. I listen to classical and the open back design works for me. I can't afford $3K. I'm happy with what I've got,
I have the 109 Pro as well. With headphones, the returns on your investment diminish exponentially above $1000. And the 109s take $2000 cans to the ropes. I'll be happy with these for a long time. My only complaint is they're a little too flash to take outdoors.
You may get to 100% if you try the Empyrean II using the CROSSTALK feature on the Chord Hugo TT2. You will certainly get the speaker-like soundstage. Worth a try, methinks.
Speakers will always be > headphones. I own the Meze 2, although amazing, they will not be replacing my 2 channel setup anytime soon. But to each their own.
Depends on how much one is willing to spend. If money is no object, then speakers will win out, but many people will not be able to afford the best speakers, whereas buying the best (or near best) headphones is in reach of most people.
Unless you have Revel, Genelec, Kii, Neumann, or Dutch & Dutch speakers, it's not likely they can sound better than a great pair of headphones, not to mention considering the cost.
@@stevenswall I usually buy my speakers used. The main 2 channel system is using old b&w nautilus 801 purchased for 5k few years back. Total system cost is around 11k with speakers plus Michi x5. My headphone system is around 7k, both are not cheap, but the separation and soundstage that speakers provide just can’t be beat! I know open back headphones are much better vs closed back but they can’t overcome the physics is in room speakers.
@@harisjaved1379 In room speakers can't overcome the physics of a completely controlled acoustic space with headphones. Minus the bass impact I'd prefer a $50 Truthear Crinnacle that follows the Harman curve to a 801 D4 B&W. Haven't heard the Nautilus one that looks like a sea shell. I do love the soundstage of my speaker system but yeah, from a frequency response perspective it's hundreds of times the cost.
@@harisjaved1379cant beat ? pretty forward statement. there are tons of system arround 11k. And at the end, Room treatment is the main key for seperation, resolution & soundstage. And for 11k you get so much end game speakers (like PSi Audio, Genelec, ATC, ME Geithain etc.) and even perfect subwoofer & DSP solutions (Single or Doube Bass Arrays)
Note, most Meze headphones sound the same on every source. The Elite sounds great everywhere. However, the Empy 2, they have more amp dependence which is why the 23R sounds different than the LTA he had it on. This is either good or bad depending if you like to mess around on other amps. Of course, the question begs, not what they will do with the Empy 3, but what they will do with the Elite 2?
Here's what I'm running: DAC: Gustard R26 AMP: Violectric HPA V550 CANS: Hifiman HE1000se (new stealth version) It's the best headphone I've heard, and I owned the original Empyrean. The ONLY nitpick I can say about the HE1000se is I wish they had a little bit more slam/dynamics. They are not lacking, maybe I'm just remembering the bass of the Empyrean 1. I found the E1 to have good low end, but a little bit of a muddy lower mids, a slight veil or recessed midrange that wasn't the most clearest thing out there. I'm wondering how these E2's compare to HE1000se. I envision I would give up midrange clarity and timbre to get better low end and slam. Trading one thing for another.
Never found any headphones that can replace the sound of speakers. You can't make up for the loss of room interaction and reflections which actually help to create all the nuances of the music. I'd rather spend the thousands on good speakers, and I did.
"Way Better Than 98% of the Speakers I have Reviewed!" That is an interesting statement from someone who just recently finished constructing a brand new speaker listening room in a separate building. I came to a similar conclusion about a year ago, and bought a complete headphone system (streamer, DAC, headphone amp, open back headphone) and a nice recliner, and I am all set. I actually recently added a SVS compact subwoofer that works great with my open-back headphones to provide deep bass response as good as any speaker system I have ever heard.
I have been on the lookout for a dentist chair or some other type that holds my head at a recline without pushing my HD-600's off my ears. What did you find or what do you use to "fix" that problem with wearing headphones while reclined/laying out? Would love to find a zero-G type recliner with a doughnut type headrest. 2nd place option is chair with 4 near-field monitors with sub.
@@sjhorton1184 I bought a recliner from LazyBoy. My HD-660S headphones don't slip off my head, but I am not fully reclined in a horizontal position. My head is a little larger than average (one size fits all baseball caps don't fit me) so I don't know if that is why my headphones stay on my ears when I am reclined.
@@jon1810 I think the staging is different with headphones, but I would not say staging is absent with headphones. It depends a lot on the recording. Is it any less valid to be seated up close or in the middle of an ensemble while listening (as it might sound with headphones) versus sitting in an audience at some distance away? Also, open-back headphones have much better staging than closed back. A lot of audio equipment reviewers seem to think that the larger the soundstage the better. I don't think that is always true, and what is important is whether it sounds like a live performance, not the width or height of the soundstage. A live performance may not have a huge sound-stage (although it depends on the venue and the seating).
This is a great review, right on with respect to tuning, detail, etc (and funny!). I'm listening to the Empyrean II this weekend and, like you, the only reservation I have is the soundstage does come across as L+R.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I am convinced the reason you like speakers with a rising response in the high treble is caused by the complete collapse of dispersion above 8 kHz with 1 inch tweeters. To give a proper room response and airiness to the sound this is probably not a bad idea. An even better idea would be to use a 3/4 inch driver and then only increase the response above 12 kHz, but then hardly anyone nowadays uses properly dispersing tweeters. I will newer understand how we have ended up with a lot of speakers who’s runs two seven inch drivers as bass units and, one 6 inch driver for the midrange and a one inch tweeter for treble. Such a design can in my view newer disperse the sound evenly. Because the midrange cannot disperse properly above 1.2 kHz end the tweeter suffers the same above 8 kHz. This is actually a problem Villchur and Allison solved correctly with the AR 3a in 1967, with 12 inch 1.5 inch and a 3/4 inch drivers crossed over at 575 Hz and 5 kHz. I am not claiming that the AR 3a is even close to a perfect speaker but in regards to forward dispersion (in no open baffles) they nailed it. Sorry my comment is more about speakers but ones thoughts tend to drift 😂. I can sadly not hit the liking bell because I already did it the first time I saw your post/review. Greetings from Denmark
Do yourself a favor and try these with a dedicated headphone amplifier that has crossfeed, such as the SPL Phonitor 2. The amps you were using have some of the best channel seperation, which is probably why you were getting such distinct left and right soundstaging.
When creativity isn't bound by a budget set on by corporate greed magic happens. Price is what the creators deserve for their hard work and choosing not to cheap out on materials. Sadly, everything is expensive today but, in the end, it's just a piece of paper you trade for enjoyment, save up and treat yourself. Great review!
Hi Ron. This is a really nice video. Appreciate your opinions and sense of humor. You also bring an excitement for me to try these headphones. Thanks again…and great microphone. 😅
After hearing the 109 Pro and pretty much hating their forward nature, I wasn't sure what to expect from the Empyrean II, but I was honestly surprised by their clarity and detail, while still sounding really balanced. I dont think i would pay $3000 for a pair of headphones, but I was really impressed.
Just curious, what amp did you use with the 109 Pro? I'm trying to figure out if amps play a significant role in the 109 sound as I have never been bothered by it. Used the same amp on the Empyrean 2 and the Empyrean's sound brighter to me surprisingly.
@@authenticNL2 multiple types, class D, A/B, tubes and even built-in phone jack etc and 109 were always really bright/forward to my ears I constantly had to turn the amps down. The Empyrean II was much more balanced to my ears, even on different types of amps.
Agree on build construction, Meze have the most comfortable headphones on the market. I think the DCA comes the closest of anyone else as they are so light.
Hey Ron, loved your review of these! I am currently looking to possibly replace my HD800s. Do you think these are worth the extra $$ or should I just stick with the Sennheisers?
I would like to see you compare these against the double sided mod house tungstens with ZMF Perf pads for linearity. They seem like the only logical competition these have. Returning my LCD-X to get either these or the Tungstens.
Focal Utopia is probably the closest that comes to giving you the 'bubble around your head' staging that you are asking for. It will also scale far above the Empy 2 if you put it on the right chains.
they can’t possibly be better than Susvaras HE1 Aperio or Shangri La Seniors, Right ? i love the first version, more than the Elite’s and it looks like these might be my new favorites when i try them out, but the Susvara’s blew my head off, it’s just astonishing what they can do. it would be nice that you make some comparisons.
I'm a fan of the channel, but sitting here watching I can't get out of my mind how perfect the "why so serious" meme fits with the tone of the channel lol
I have the Elites and OG Empyrean and they pair very nicely with Chord DAVE and Hugo2. Anyone tried the Empy II with either of those yet. Sounds like they Empy II are alot more amp dependent.
I have seen these on someone. I tried with the song Madness by Muse. Perfect... It's something I've never heard before. Besides that, the quality of construction seems premium to me. They are not cheap, but they cannot be cheap either.
To match the detail and resolution of a pair of $3000 headphones with a pair of stereo speakers, you need speakers made with excellent drivers and crossover components - as well as very transparent and resolving gear in the chain. You don't really get it until you reach the $10000 range and above for the speakers, or DIY speakers with about $2000 worth of parts.
I'd like to see a comparison between these and Mod House's Tungsten (about half the price). On another note, I have a question regarding speaker bass performance you mentioned in the video. You say only open baffle can offer that kind of bass accuracy & detail, but what about similarly sized planar speakers like Magnepans, paired with open baffle servo subs like the one's Danny sells at GR? How does the Planar/O.B. sub performance compare to something like a pair of Spatial Audio open baffle speakers?
Good afternoon from Toronto 😘 I can’t drop $3k US …so life gives me lemons ..I’ll make lemonade. I have LCDX 2021 ..phenomenal sound ( yes there’s a tuning issue) but heavy. They’re going to RhythmDevil to get the wonkyness tuned out… Hey, even Randy ( The cheap audio man ) liked them ..compared to the MEZE ELITE ..so it’s a question of whether or not YOU like them. As for these Emp’s 2.0 ..sure I’d like them ..but not at that price . Great video as always.
Hi Ron, I’ve been waiting for this review of yours. It’s jaw dropping to have a headphone like this. Here’s my personal question for you. Given 3k to buy a DAP to drive this headphone, what is your 1st and 2nd pick? I really appreciate if you can give me your personal take. Merry Christmas to you & your family 🙏🏼
I own the 109 Pro and just love everything about it. It's stunningly beautiful to look at, it's lightweight and very comfortable to wear on my melon and it sounds terrific in that "FUN" way which you describe. It's NOT going to be the technical performer that the Empyrean II is but then again, the 109 Pro didn't cost $3K. I'm quite content with what I have and yet not willing to say the word "Never". Of course I'd have to sell off a few pairs of my Audeze (EL-8/LCD-2/LCD-X) in order to help fund the Empyrean II. We'll see.
Wonder if you have either by software or one of your hardware units the ability to play around with headphone crosstalk. This might bring some of the left-right to the phantom center like a speaker will. Try it!
@NewRecordDay- Could something like Sony's Spatial Audio, 3D surround engine/technology, add the dimension, and spatial, open, airiness type of sound to these headphones!?
@newrecordday You somehow didn’t mention the Elite at all in the review. You asked if it can get better, I feel like the Meze Elite is the obvious answer. I own and love the Elite. Have you had the chance to hear the Elite?
They get rid of the mid bass hump and really clean up the bass while also enhancing the clarity and imaging. All the while you still get that musical, relaxing Meze sound. It’s pretty nice!
The wraparound, it seems would only be possible if it was encoded into the original recording, perhaps in a SACD version. Otherwise you would be asking for an artificially enhanced version, like “Stadium” mode, the concept of which I suspect would nauseate you.
I'm aware of computer software that provides this 'wraparound' (adjustable L/R channel mixing) effect for headphones. But it's app/program-based and isn't easy incorporate into mainstream audio systems. I suspect that most audiophiles that care enough about their music listening to invest in it don't want to be tethered to their computer/phone to enjoy to their music. Hopefully, this feature is available in affordable DACs - and Bluetooth headphones - in the near future. It would be game-changing for headphone listening.
@@mattrismattBut it still seems to be an artificial construct rather than an original intentional artistic creation by the mixing engineers, a critical distinction it seems to me.
@@elpayp1870 Honestly, I don't care to seek out what was the 'original intentional artistic creation by the mixing engineers', partly because it was probably mixed for speakers. I just want the music I own - on _my_ headphones - to sound better... in _my_ opinion, of course. I approve of anything in the audio chain that does this for me. I welcome any software/hardware that could, for instance, produce the effect that I'm in a symphony hall listening to an orchestra.
For the amount I listen to headphones, I would rather put the money towards something on the 2 channel system so everyone in the family can enjoy at the same time. I have a good pair of Sennheiser's that I rarely use. At the same time I believe you get what you pay for so based on the cost, these must be (or should be) incredible.
Obviously if you have a family that wants to listen to music, then speakers are going to be needed. However, I was out running errands all day, and when I got home I realized my kids had been on Ebay the entire time I was gone. If they are still there tomorrow, I am going to lower the price.
Great review as always. However, you mispronounced the name of the best headphones, which is understandable since you're a two channel speakers audiophile at heart. In the Headfi world though, we pronounce it "Modhouse Tungstens." 😅
Yes, things have developed a lot for dynamic headphones the last 5-10 years. Stax have been there for 50 years and still is crushing the competition. But entering the Stax world have a downside. It kills your interest your loudspeaker audio system, because no matter what you do and how far you go with your audio system any Stax system is way better. That happend to me.
They must be good because of all the great reviews they're getting. But from some of the measurements, they look a little weak in the low (sub) bass, don't they?
Those audiophile who has a lot of money to spend are very lucky to own these headphone...i hope one day i'm lucky to win in a lottery to have this perfect sounding headphone....oh what a MEZE
I feel like headphones can be just as much of a bottomless pit type hobby as speakers, amps and dacs. My daily headphones are 6xx with ZMF suede pads. I like the stock pads but damn they don't last long. My wife also has a pair that she uses at work. My 'fancy' pair of cans at home is a pair of 2021 LCD-X. They're kinda clunky in appearance, a bit heavy, but I really like 'em. The weight has never really bothered me for hours on end (gaming + music). For some reason I can't wear a hat without getting a hot spot under the band though. I've window shopped for ZMF cans and higher end Audezes (b-stock sales, anyone?). Wondered if I would like Focal's offerings. Tried out my friends' HD800s.... But I've always come back to the fact that I really enjoy my couple of pairs of headphones...and really don't need to start another collection of stuff. 😅 It's not that I think my headphones are perfect, rather perfectly serviceable in a way that allows me to really enjoy my music (and my wife to have her piece and quiet when she needs it 😁).
I’m sorry Ron, but I am going to have to unsubscribe from your channel. Your videos are getting better and better becoming more addicting and unpredictable. I am not even into headphones or own any and I watched this entire video. Secondly your review on the Q-Acoustic 500’s have caused me to purchase a pair And love them. You should have way more subscribers. Your hard work And love for what you do reflects in your content. You are becoming a very talked about and recognized TH-camr and well deserved. Keep up the good work my friend and happy holidays!!!!
In my opinion, $3,000 headphones only make sense for certain people: headphone fanatics, rich people, audiophiles who can't have speakers in their system, recording engineers, etc.
Better than Susvara? Better than Sennheiser HE1? Really?? lol ;) Admittedly, Meze wins the design and build quality contest. They are beautifully designed and made headphones. No argument there. But best in sound quality? As for comfort, the $1200 Hifiman Aryas are a 10/10 for comfort and long listening sessions, but lack the design and build quality of the Meze, but its also half the price. Susvara is a 10/10 for both comfort, sound quality and while not quite as sexy as the Empyreans and don’t have the same build quality, they are no slouch.
Both are great. They share more similarities than differences. Susvara probably wins in deep bass but I prefer the voicing on top of the Empyreans. Both offer phenomenal resolution but the peak at 4K of Susvara sounds a little fatiguing over time with electric guitars.
@@Newrecordday2013 Cool! Don’t ever look at or listen to the Sennheiser HE1 because you will regret it. They are $70,000 and you will seriously consider taking out a second mortgage to own them. 😂
The HD6XX or maybe the entire series are so bad to me, I'm sorry. I have ran it through dedicated DACS, 3 budget amplifiers, but it will never reach the sound of like any other headphone I'm sure.
If you had a better looking microphone 🎤 then your mom and I would have cuddled up on the couch and viewed this review video more. Also, I need whale 🐋 farts in my music, so I'm not sure these are the headphones I've been searching for, but thanks for the review.
because of subjective character of the sound and human approach to the sound in general, there are no the best headphones whether it is sarcasm or not. there are ONLY good and bad headphones, no matter of the price tag.
The only way headphones can be "way better than speakers" is if you remove physics from the equation. That is the problem I have with audio gear claims and such, I refuse to toss real science out the door in favor of pseudo-science or flat out nonsense. Headphones of ANY stripe do not have "staging", period. It is the nature of the beast. Our sense of staging that we hear comes from room interaction. Speakers (bookshelf, towers, what have you) interact with the room and thus have staging and that staging can be manipulated. Headphones have no room interaction and are just essentially speakers strapped to ones head planted right up against ones ears. I personally don't like listening with headphones, that is I can't do seriously listening with them. I just have to have staging. Also most headphones require EQ of some sort because they usually lack in some important frequency range. I have nothing against headphones personally otherwise and I do use them for hobby work. That said, one can get staging on headphones with software, but then one is restricted to just using one's computer for all their listening. I have tried the Meze cans (two different models), one was about $100 and the other about $3k. Both sounded pretty much the same to me. As for comfort, that is a matter of each individual. Are the Meze cans the most comfortable? No. Are they comfortable? Yes. To me there is no such thing as "most comfortable" in headphones. For me it is three levels: There is comfortable, sort of comfortable and get this thing off me now! Price of headphones have nothing to do with performance. I have heard about 70 to 80 different pairs of cans in my time ranging from $20 to $3100 and with the exception of the direction they may be tilted towards frequency wise, they are all the same with the exception of fit and finish. I did not fall in love with any of them. In fact, I found the more expensive ones more offensive sounding on occasion.
You know you liked holding that mic.
It was incredibly satisfying.
A year ago, I bought the Meze 109 Pro and the Topping G5 DAC. Love the sound. I listen to classical and the open back design works for me. I can't afford $3K. I'm happy with what I've got,
I have the 109 Pro as well. With headphones, the returns on your investment diminish exponentially above $1000. And the 109s take $2000 cans to the ropes.
I'll be happy with these for a long time. My only complaint is they're a little too flash to take outdoors.
You may get to 100% if you try the Empyrean II using the CROSSTALK feature on the Chord Hugo TT2. You will certainly get the speaker-like soundstage. Worth a try, methinks.
Thanks!
Wow thanks!
Pads make the biggest difference in headphones, but I would also suggest that you try the Elite pads as well, you may like them better.
Great idea!
Speakers will always be > headphones. I own the Meze 2, although amazing, they will not be replacing my 2 channel setup anytime soon. But to each their own.
Depends on how much one is willing to spend. If money is no object, then speakers will win out, but many people will not be able to afford the best speakers, whereas buying the best (or near best) headphones is in reach of most people.
Unless you have Revel, Genelec, Kii, Neumann, or Dutch & Dutch speakers, it's not likely they can sound better than a great pair of headphones, not to mention considering the cost.
@@stevenswall I usually buy my speakers used. The main 2 channel system is using old b&w nautilus 801 purchased for 5k few years back. Total system cost is around 11k with speakers plus Michi x5. My headphone system is around 7k, both are not cheap, but the separation and soundstage that speakers provide just can’t be beat! I know open back headphones are much better vs closed back but they can’t overcome the physics is in room speakers.
@@harisjaved1379 In room speakers can't overcome the physics of a completely controlled acoustic space with headphones.
Minus the bass impact I'd prefer a $50 Truthear Crinnacle that follows the Harman curve to a 801 D4 B&W. Haven't heard the Nautilus one that looks like a sea shell.
I do love the soundstage of my speaker system but yeah, from a frequency response perspective it's hundreds of times the cost.
@@harisjaved1379cant beat ? pretty forward statement. there are tons of system arround 11k. And at the end, Room treatment is the main key for seperation, resolution & soundstage. And for 11k you get so much end game speakers (like PSi Audio, Genelec, ATC, ME Geithain etc.) and even perfect subwoofer & DSP solutions (Single or Doube Bass Arrays)
Note, most Meze headphones sound the same on every source. The Elite sounds great everywhere. However, the Empy 2, they have more amp dependence which is why the 23R sounds different than the LTA he had it on. This is either good or bad depending if you like to mess around on other amps.
Of course, the question begs, not what they will do with the Empy 3, but what they will do with the Elite 2?
Here's what I'm running:
DAC: Gustard R26
AMP: Violectric HPA V550
CANS: Hifiman HE1000se (new stealth version)
It's the best headphone I've heard, and I owned the original Empyrean. The ONLY nitpick I can say about the HE1000se is I wish they had a little bit more slam/dynamics. They are not lacking, maybe I'm just remembering the bass of the Empyrean 1. I found the E1 to have good low end, but a little bit of a muddy lower mids, a slight veil or recessed midrange that wasn't the most clearest thing out there.
I'm wondering how these E2's compare to HE1000se. I envision I would give up midrange clarity and timbre to get better low end and slam. Trading one thing for another.
I would argue that the Susvara and Modhouse Tungsten scale higher than the Empy 2, but you have to build into it.
Never found any headphones that can replace the sound of speakers. You can't make up for the loss of room interaction and reflections which actually help to create all the nuances of the music. I'd rather spend the thousands on good speakers, and I did.
I agree about the room interaction.
@@Newrecordday2013 Don't take my comment wrong Ron, you always make great videos and I enjoy them very much, thank you.
"Way Better Than 98% of the Speakers I have Reviewed!" That is an interesting statement from someone who just recently finished constructing a brand new speaker listening room in a separate building. I came to a similar conclusion about a year ago, and bought a complete headphone system (streamer, DAC, headphone amp, open back headphone) and a nice recliner, and I am all set. I actually recently added a SVS compact subwoofer that works great with my open-back headphones to provide deep bass response as good as any speaker system I have ever heard.
I have been on the lookout for a dentist chair or some other type that holds my head at a recline without pushing my HD-600's off my ears. What did you find or what do you use to "fix" that problem with wearing headphones while reclined/laying out? Would love to find a zero-G type recliner with a doughnut type headrest. 2nd place option is chair with 4 near-field monitors with sub.
@@sjhorton1184 I bought a recliner from LazyBoy. My HD-660S headphones don't slip off my head, but I am not fully reclined in a horizontal position. My head is a little larger than average (one size fits all baseball caps don't fit me) so I don't know if that is why my headphones stay on my ears when I am reclined.
@@sjhorton1184 Try KOSS KSC75! Way better than Sennheiser 600s!
But you just don’t get the space, and distance, and full stage…when trapped in headphones… ;)
@@jon1810 I think the staging is different with headphones, but I would not say staging is absent with headphones. It depends a lot on the recording. Is it any less valid to be seated up close or in the middle of an ensemble while listening (as it might sound with headphones) versus sitting in an audience at some distance away? Also, open-back headphones have much better staging than closed back.
A lot of audio equipment reviewers seem to think that the larger the soundstage the better. I don't think that is always true, and what is important is whether it sounds like a live performance, not the width or height of the soundstage. A live performance may not have a huge sound-stage (although it depends on the venue and the seating).
I wonder how these headphones would compare to the Dan Clark E3's?
This is a great review, right on with respect to tuning, detail, etc (and funny!). I'm listening to the Empyrean II this weekend and, like you, the only reservation I have is the soundstage does come across as L+R.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I am convinced the reason you like speakers with a rising response in the high treble is caused by the complete collapse of dispersion above 8 kHz with 1 inch tweeters. To give a proper room response and airiness to the sound this is probably not a bad idea. An even better idea would be to use a 3/4 inch driver and then only increase the response above 12 kHz, but then hardly anyone nowadays uses properly dispersing tweeters. I will newer understand how we have ended up with a lot of speakers who’s runs two seven inch drivers as bass units and, one 6 inch driver for the midrange and a one inch tweeter for treble. Such a design can in my view newer disperse the sound evenly. Because the midrange cannot disperse properly above 1.2 kHz end the tweeter suffers the same above 8 kHz. This is actually a problem Villchur and Allison solved correctly with the AR 3a in 1967, with 12 inch 1.5 inch and a 3/4 inch drivers crossed over at 575 Hz and 5 kHz. I am not claiming that the AR 3a is even close to a perfect speaker but in regards to forward dispersion (in no open baffles) they nailed it. Sorry my comment is more about speakers but ones thoughts tend to drift 😂. I can sadly not hit the liking bell because I already did it the first time I saw your post/review. Greetings from Denmark
Do yourself a favor and try these with a dedicated headphone amplifier that has crossfeed, such as the SPL Phonitor 2. The amps you were using have some of the best channel seperation, which is probably why you were getting such distinct left and right soundstaging.
Thanks for the advice!
Ok, I'll click on that title
Same
When creativity isn't bound by a budget set on by corporate greed magic happens. Price is what the creators deserve for their hard work and choosing not to cheap out on materials. Sadly, everything is expensive today but, in the end, it's just a piece of paper you trade for enjoyment, save up and treat yourself. Great review!
Hi Ron. This is a really nice video. Appreciate your opinions and sense of humor. You also bring an excitement for me to try these headphones. Thanks again…and great microphone. 😅
After hearing the 109 Pro and pretty much hating their forward nature, I wasn't sure what to expect from the Empyrean II, but I was honestly surprised by their clarity and detail, while still sounding really balanced. I dont think i would pay $3000 for a pair of headphones, but I was really impressed.
Just curious, what amp did you use with the 109 Pro? I'm trying to figure out if amps play a significant role in the 109 sound as I have never been bothered by it. Used the same amp on the Empyrean 2 and the Empyrean's sound brighter to me surprisingly.
@@authenticNL2 multiple types, class D, A/B, tubes and even built-in phone jack etc and 109 were always really bright/forward to my ears I constantly had to turn the amps down. The Empyrean II was much more balanced to my ears, even on different types of amps.
Agree on build construction, Meze have the most comfortable headphones on the market. I think the DCA comes the closest of anyone else as they are so light.
Holding the mic, love it.
Haha! So dumb!
Hey Ron, loved your review of these!
I am currently looking to possibly replace my HD800s. Do you think these are worth the extra $$ or should I just stick with the Sennheisers?
I have these and they are so much better than hd800s no comparison. Anyway you could try or return if you didn’t like. This is a major upgrade.
@@markaprill6501 - I'm sure I'm going to like the Meze's just debating whether to spend $3k on them and if they're worth 2x the HD800S's.
What sorcery is this? Being deaf in one ear, I'm not interested in headphones. Yet I both watched and enjoyed this video. I credit the microphone.
Haha! Gotcha!
Amazing review!
Glad you enjoyed it
What would you recommend for dac amp for these cans at around the $2000 price point, preferably under that price but?
I would like to see you compare these against the double sided mod house tungstens with ZMF Perf pads for linearity. They seem like the only logical competition these have. Returning my LCD-X to get either these or the Tungstens.
Focal Utopia is probably the closest that comes to giving you the 'bubble around your head' staging that you are asking for. It will also scale far above the Empy 2 if you put it on the right chains.
they can’t possibly be better than Susvaras HE1 Aperio or Shangri La Seniors, Right ? i love the first version, more than the Elite’s and it looks like these might be my new favorites when i try them out, but the Susvara’s blew my head off, it’s just astonishing what they can do. it would be nice that you make some comparisons.
Have you compared to SRX6000 or Audeze CRBN?
I'm a fan of the channel, but sitting here watching I can't get out of my mind how perfect the "why so serious" meme fits with the tone of the channel lol
I do need to lighten up! Thanks
I have the Elites and OG Empyrean and they pair very nicely with Chord DAVE and Hugo2. Anyone tried the Empy II with either of those yet. Sounds like they Empy II are alot more amp dependent.
I have seen these on someone. I tried with the song Madness by Muse. Perfect... It's something I've never heard before. Besides that, the quality of construction seems premium to me. They are not cheap, but they cannot be cheap either.
To match the detail and resolution of a pair of $3000 headphones with a pair of stereo speakers, you need speakers made with excellent drivers and crossover components - as well as very transparent and resolving gear in the chain. You don't really get it until you reach the $10000 range and above for the speakers, or DIY speakers with about $2000 worth of parts.
They are revealing but I enjoy the Arya Organic more (sounds great wit the Questyle M15, Fireflies Gen 3 and other modest systems).
These or the Elite?
I'd like to see a comparison between these and Mod House's Tungsten (about half the price).
On another note, I have a question regarding speaker bass performance you mentioned in the video. You say only open baffle can offer that kind of bass accuracy & detail, but what about similarly sized planar speakers like Magnepans, paired with open baffle servo subs like the one's Danny sells at GR? How does the Planar/O.B. sub performance compare to something like a pair of Spatial Audio open baffle speakers?
Good afternoon from Toronto 😘
I can’t drop $3k US …so life gives me lemons ..I’ll make lemonade.
I have LCDX 2021 ..phenomenal sound ( yes there’s a tuning issue) but heavy.
They’re going to RhythmDevil to get the wonkyness tuned out…
Hey, even Randy ( The cheap audio man ) liked them ..compared to the MEZE ELITE ..so it’s a question of whether or not YOU like them.
As for these Emp’s 2.0 ..sure I’d like them ..but not at that price .
Great video as always.
It's not too much different from the original one, so that means it's still great with amp using 6V6GT (Ken-rad is the best) or 300B then.
THANKS RON 🤗 IT IS THE BEST TIME EVER TO BE AN AUDIOPHILE …🤯🤗
Is there a trade-in program for my 99 classics? Lol
I know, right!
Hi Ron, I’ve been waiting for this review of yours. It’s jaw dropping to have a headphone like this. Here’s my personal question for you. Given 3k to buy a DAP to drive this headphone, what is your 1st and 2nd pick? I really appreciate if you can give me your personal take. Merry Christmas to you & your family 🙏🏼
Hifiman ef-6
I own the 109 Pro and just love everything about it. It's stunningly beautiful to look at, it's lightweight and very comfortable to wear on my melon and it sounds terrific in that "FUN" way which you describe. It's NOT going to be the technical performer that the Empyrean II is but then again, the 109 Pro didn't cost $3K. I'm quite content with what I have and yet not willing to say the word "Never". Of course I'd have to sell off a few pairs of my Audeze (EL-8/LCD-2/LCD-X) in order to help fund the Empyrean II. We'll see.
Wonder if you have either by software or one of your hardware units the ability to play around with headphone crosstalk. This might bring some of the left-right to the phantom center like a speaker will. Try it!
I thought bass sounded too muddy when A/B'ing against HE1000SE. Great tho 😊
They are fine. I sent mine back because I just enjoy my DCA E3 more.
How did they go against the Verum Audio MK2?
They are way better.
@@Newrecordday2013 wow $2650 better? That’s substantial!
@njrumenos ya know - sometimes better is better and that’s that.
The amount of reviewers that this headphone has impressed is surprising.
I think everyone is on the Empyrean train right now. In 6 months they’ll be a lot of them for sale.
@NewRecordDay- Could something like Sony's Spatial Audio, 3D surround engine/technology, add the dimension, and spatial, open, airiness type of sound to these headphones!?
@newrecordday You somehow didn’t mention the Elite at all in the review. You asked if it can get better, I feel like the Meze Elite is the obvious answer. I own and love the Elite. Have you had the chance to hear the Elite?
Yup I actually had a lot of time to spend with the elite. It was a nice headphone but I actually prefer the Empyrean II more.
Ok, cool. I actually like my Elite even more now that I’ve switched to the Angled Alcantara pads. Did you get a chance to try those on the Elite?
Actually, no, I can imagine that I would probably like the more with those pads as well
They get rid of the mid bass hump and really clean up the bass while also enhancing the clarity and imaging. All the while you still get that musical, relaxing Meze sound. It’s pretty nice!
The wraparound, it seems would only be possible if it was encoded into the original recording, perhaps in a SACD version. Otherwise you would be asking for an artificially enhanced version, like “Stadium” mode, the concept of which I suspect would nauseate you.
I'm aware of computer software that provides this 'wraparound' (adjustable L/R channel mixing) effect for headphones. But it's app/program-based and isn't easy incorporate into mainstream audio systems. I suspect that most audiophiles that care enough about their music listening to invest in it don't want to be tethered to their computer/phone to enjoy to their music. Hopefully, this feature is available in affordable DACs - and Bluetooth headphones - in the near future. It would be game-changing for headphone listening.
@@mattrismattBut it still seems to be an artificial construct rather than an original intentional artistic creation by the mixing engineers, a critical distinction it seems to me.
@@elpayp1870 Honestly, I don't care to seek out what was the 'original intentional artistic creation by the mixing engineers', partly because it was probably mixed for speakers. I just want the music I own - on _my_ headphones - to sound better... in _my_ opinion, of course. I approve of anything in the audio chain that does this for me. I welcome any software/hardware that could, for instance, produce the effect that I'm in a symphony hall listening to an orchestra.
Chacun a son goût
For the amount I listen to headphones, I would rather put the money towards something on the 2 channel system so everyone in the family can enjoy at the same time. I have a good pair of Sennheiser's that I rarely use. At the same time I believe you get what you pay for so based on the cost, these must be (or should be) incredible.
Obviously if you have a family that wants to listen to music, then speakers are going to be needed. However, I was out running errands all day, and when I got home I realized my kids had been on Ebay the entire time I was gone. If they are still there tomorrow, I am going to lower the price.
Following the Porsche mentality with the 911 but for audio; one can hope!
I have one that is more comfy and costs way less : Audioquest Nightowl. No comparaison regarding the sondage tough.
Get this man a ZMF Atrium open to review stat! (I may be biased)
Great review as always. However, you mispronounced the name of the best headphones, which is understandable since you're a two channel speakers audiophile at heart. In the Headfi world though, we pronounce it "Modhouse Tungstens." 😅
to get here how did you miss the universally praised Meze 99 open backs?
?
Yes, things have developed a lot for dynamic headphones the last 5-10 years.
Stax have been there for 50 years and still is crushing the competition.
But entering the Stax world have a downside. It kills your interest your loudspeaker audio system, because no matter what you do and how far you go with your audio system any Stax system is way better. That happend to me.
They must be good because of all the great reviews they're getting. But from some of the measurements, they look a little weak in the low (sub) bass, don't they?
Those audiophile who has a lot of money to spend are very lucky to own these headphone...i hope one day i'm lucky to win in a lottery to have this perfect sounding headphone....oh what a MEZE
3k is pocket money in the audiophile world 😄
If i was confident that these would last my lifetime, and could be fixed if they broke i would maybe consider these headphones
One day this will be my end game headphone.
Maybe Temu do a pair.
I feel like headphones can be just as much of a bottomless pit type hobby as speakers, amps and dacs. My daily headphones are 6xx with ZMF suede pads. I like the stock pads but damn they don't last long. My wife also has a pair that she uses at work. My 'fancy' pair of cans at home is a pair of 2021 LCD-X. They're kinda clunky in appearance, a bit heavy, but I really like 'em. The weight has never really bothered me for hours on end (gaming + music). For some reason I can't wear a hat without getting a hot spot under the band though.
I've window shopped for ZMF cans and higher end Audezes (b-stock sales, anyone?). Wondered if I would like Focal's offerings. Tried out my friends' HD800s.... But I've always come back to the fact that I really enjoy my couple of pairs of headphones...and really don't need to start another collection of stuff. 😅 It's not that I think my headphones are perfect, rather perfectly serviceable in a way that allows me to really enjoy my music (and my wife to have her piece and quiet when she needs it 😁).
HD620S - nothing else to add.
I’m sorry Ron, but I am going to have to unsubscribe from your channel. Your videos are getting better and better becoming more addicting and unpredictable. I am not even into headphones or own any and I watched this entire video. Secondly your review on the Q-Acoustic 500’s have caused me to purchase a pair And love them. You should have way more subscribers. Your hard work And love for what you do reflects in your content. You are becoming a very talked about and recognized TH-camr and well deserved. Keep up the good work my friend and happy holidays!!!!
Thank you and happy holidays right back at ya!
So, did you hear Jon Frusciante’s “The Empyrean” album on these? 😊
I would love to see the look on your face while listening to a pair of STAX electrostatic earspeakers.
Yikes, I’m in the wrong zip
Code. 3k for headphones 😢. Sonic Flare would probably love them lol
I know, 3k is a ton of money so I get it!
In my opinion, $3,000 headphones only make sense for certain people: headphone fanatics, rich people, audiophiles who can't have speakers in their system, recording engineers, etc.
Better than Susvara? Better than Sennheiser HE1? Really?? lol ;) Admittedly, Meze wins the design and build quality contest. They are beautifully designed and made headphones. No argument there. But best in sound quality? As for comfort, the $1200 Hifiman Aryas are a 10/10 for comfort and long listening sessions, but lack the design and build quality of the Meze, but its also half the price. Susvara is a 10/10 for both comfort, sound quality and while not quite as sexy as the Empyreans and don’t have the same build quality, they are no slouch.
Definitely like them more than Susvara. No comment on the HE1, never heard them.
@@Newrecordday2013 Interesting! How is it better than Susvara? (By the way, specific side by side comparisons are always helpful.)
Both are great. They share more similarities than differences. Susvara probably wins in deep bass but I prefer the voicing on top of the Empyreans. Both offer phenomenal resolution but the peak at 4K of Susvara sounds a little fatiguing over time with electric guitars.
@@Newrecordday2013 Cool! Don’t ever look at or listen to the Sennheiser HE1 because you will regret it. They are $70,000 and you will seriously consider taking out a second mortgage to own them. 😂
@BrentLeVasseur I believe it! Another thing I forgot to mention is I like the staging and placement of things more on Empy II over Susvara.
Now I got to figure out how to get $3,000 after I just spent $1,500 on my IE 900 🤔🤔🤔
Wife's going to be mad 😅
well ou can buy small bottle of water for 1k eur too...
Hype to 11. No one needs anything more than Sennheiser’s HD6XX series.
I love that series as well but they aren’t on the same level as these. Highly recommend those headphone for someone on a budget.
The HD6XX or maybe the entire series are so bad to me, I'm sorry. I have ran it through dedicated DACS, 3 budget amplifiers, but it will never reach the sound of like any other headphone I'm sure.
DUHHHHH???? THAT WAS TRUE IN 1978 AND IS STILL TRUE TODAY- GRADO RS-1s.. keep learning...
That’s your comment?
i stopped the video and liked it when you explained the mic holding.
The audio hype train has well and truly left the station.... 😆😆😆
Is over your head nrd cowboy😊
I just realized NRD means "nerd". 😆
$3000, insane money? Try $4000c before 12% tax.
If you had a better looking microphone 🎤 then your mom and I would have cuddled up on the couch and viewed this review video more. Also, I need whale 🐋 farts in my music, so I'm not sure these are the headphones I've been searching for, but thanks for the review.
because of subjective character of the sound and human approach to the sound in general, there are no the best headphones whether it is sarcasm or not. there are ONLY good and bad headphones, no matter of the price tag.
I’m seeing an awful lot of great headphones ..but too rich for my blood.
There are some very good ones in the $500 range.
Chacun a son goût.
Bro relax it's over 3 grand.
The only way headphones can be "way better than speakers" is if you remove physics from the equation. That is the problem I have with audio gear claims and such, I refuse to toss real science out the door in favor of pseudo-science or flat out nonsense.
Headphones of ANY stripe do not have "staging", period. It is the nature of the beast. Our sense of staging that we hear comes from room interaction. Speakers (bookshelf, towers, what have you) interact with the room and thus have staging and that staging can be manipulated. Headphones have no room interaction and are just essentially speakers strapped to ones head planted right up against ones ears. I personally don't like listening with headphones, that is I can't do seriously listening with them. I just have to have staging. Also most headphones require EQ of some sort because they usually lack in some important frequency range. I have nothing against headphones personally otherwise and I do use them for hobby work.
That said, one can get staging on headphones with software, but then one is restricted to just using one's computer for all their listening.
I have tried the Meze cans (two different models), one was about $100 and the other about $3k. Both sounded pretty much the same to me. As for comfort, that is a matter of each individual. Are the Meze cans the most comfortable? No. Are they comfortable? Yes. To me there is no such thing as "most comfortable" in headphones. For me it is three levels: There is comfortable, sort of comfortable and get this thing off me now!
Price of headphones have nothing to do with performance. I have heard about 70 to 80 different pairs of cans in my time ranging from $20 to $3100 and with the exception of the direction they may be tilted towards frequency wise, they are all the same with the exception of fit and finish. I did not fall in love with any of them. In fact, I found the more expensive ones more offensive sounding on occasion.
They should be amazing at that price. Duh! If they really want to impress me, design an amazing set for the $100 price range.
You need to try better headphones if this is"way better" than 98%.
And what headphones would that be and how much time have you spent with these?
7hz salnotes zero the best headphones-25 dollar
3k on headphones.....only reason is to say you spent 3k on headphones for bragging rights
Ok
Caldera is so much better. Meze sounds dead compared to Caldera
LOL! You are joking right?
@@ixoye56 no it's true . Got them side by side
Then by all means, enjoy your Caldera! Enjoy having a choice. Listening to head phones or loud speakers always is subjective.
Amazing review!