Thanks for this, the format was awesome. Having a “top 10” consisting of almost every gripe being talked about, some without having played the game, has finally helped me make an informed decision. There is potential in this format, if anyone digs it as much as I did. Be well.
We had a story teller for each mission. So we takes turns alternating each scenario having one person reading the story aloud and getting into character (as much as they want to). This allowed us to engage together in the story. We used normal difficulty for my Wife and I, and Hard for our 3/4 player games. Great time so far!! looking forward to the back half of the campaign.
Great review! About time someone with review credentials took the time to play through the game in order to discuss the positive aspects of Descent Legends. I have had more fun playing this ( 4 characters solo ) than most of my other games.
Descent 2nd Ed. got me into the hobby years ago, and I was very hesitant about this and all the negative buzz it was getting. Tom's review gave me more pause, but every review I have seen since has been wildly positive, so I pulled the trigger last week and it arrived yesterday. Today, you post this review and you have me so excited to get this to the table now! Always love your in-depth reviews. I met you at TokenCon in Oklahoma two years ago and let you know that your Eclipse review helped me find my favorite board game still to this day. Love your work. Thanks again for your contributions to our hobby.
@@Selmarnf I would give it a mild recommendation. It does a lot of things really well, and the table presence is just awesome. Some of the sceanrios do some unique, fun things. My son and I are reaching the end of the campaign and I'm starting to have a little burn out on it, but I'm anxious to see how they can continue building on this new system they've created to make keep it fresh.
Fantastic review! I really enjoyed the format, and I agree with your take on the game! I haven't finished it yet, but I'm thoroughly enjoying the ride.
You hit the nail on the price Joel!! It might be expensive but I feel it is justified by the amazing minis, gorgeous 3D terrain, great app and included storage solution all in a massive box.
As someone who was genuinely excited when it was first announced and spent a good bit of Internet karma (lol) advocating for it on social media, I really enjoy seeing games blow up in popularity and come out against the echo chamber that exists in our hobby; it is oddly satisfying. Thank you for your awesome review. I really respect your perception on things.
Point 5, I think you really need to pay attention to completing feats to not miss out on skills. Also using the undying skull is also key to getting upgraded recipes.
Thank you for this very in-depth video! There are things about this that sound amazing (nice terrain, fleshed out world, interesting story), but other things that seem custom designed to push me away as a player (too small on a phone, requires a massive table, constantly going between table and tablet). I hope one day FFG makes a fully digital implementation because I would buy that immediately.
And as someone who plays dungeon games specifically to play as the overlord/GM, I think that's the one thing that makes me feel slighted by this direction in the hobby and makes me feel pushed away.
First off, love the channel. You do a fantastic job. I have to disagree on this not being like Heroquest though. As someone who grew up playing, and who still plays Heroquest, and Warhammer Quest (1995), this version of Descent (LotD) is the first game since then to give me the same feel, mainly because of the props and the way exploration is handled. In fact I would say this is an improvement in many ways over Heroquest. I would absolutely call this a dungeon crawler in the same vein as Heroquest and Warhammer Quest 95. Also I would never call Descent 2E a dungeon crawler. It's nothing of the sort. Descent 2E is a tactical miniatures game. One that is heavily time based. Very little in the way of exploration and certainly not in the same vein as Heroquest. Over the years I've looked for a modern Heroquest. Followed the suggestions on BGG and Reddit, only to be disappointed. Nothing people on BGG or Reddit have recommended is like Heroquest to me. Nothing in the list maintained on BGG is like Heroquest. I've tried them all and in my opinion, this version of Descent is the first game that nails it. Also it should be fairly easy to design your own quests without the app. The core stats and mechanics are actually very simple. I'm guessing someone will soon extract monster info from the app and make a compendium.
After playing Middara (a phenomenal game) I still enjoy Descent quite a lot. In Middara, there is a lot of back and forth between the game and the book as well as a lot of mental math involved with combat and spell casting as well as dodging and countering. Overall, I enjoy the apps purpose in Descent. It helps me focus more on the journey and task at hand. Great review and very informative! I loved Descent!
I wanted to add a little personal story referring to the price of Descent. Yes, it is expensive and you did an amazing job breaking down your thought process on this matter. Here’s what I think people generally don’t think about. I took my wife and kids to the movies a few weeks ago. Between the movie and snacks, I spent almost $100. Two hours later, the movie was over and I was left feeling very underwhelmed. Don’t get me wrong, I enjoyed spending time with the family but $100 for barely 2 hours of subpar entertainment! No way do I think that is worth it. Descent, on the other hand, has already given me my money’s worth! If people were to compare the cost of other forms of entertainment versus what they can get out of board games (Descent in this example), they would realize it really isn’t that expensive after all.
Loved the new review structure! It flows really nicely. I'm still on the fence about this one, the price is just crazy. But your strong point at the end helps pushing me to the "get it now!" side!
I really appreciate your reviews. I’m not sure how to describe what I’m thinking but I’ll try. It’s almost that you approach a game willing to have fun and let that fun be natural. A game doesn’t have to be perfect, you just love spending time with others, playing games. It’s almost, like you can have fun playing anything. With that being said thanks for reviewing this game. Without any crotchety old man vibes I can honestly say I have no interest in this game. I just feel like it’s everything I’d want in a video game. I’d just rather replay Dragon Age. I just look for different things in my board games. I can’t put my finger on it. Anyways very glad you had a lot of fun with it and I hope you get to play through it again
I am surprised by how positive this review is. I agree with your comments about the story, that said I am keeping Descent 2,there is nothing more fun than being the overlord, choosing the monsters etc
@@timd4524 when the app goes down..... not sure what that means, I can still use the golem arcana one, despite it not being updated. And to prevent that from happening FFG has the app on steam and as an external launcher on pc. So I have the files, the app will never not work. It might be updated but I am not sure after 2 plays of the campaign that matters. I would also note, FFG put out apps for 1 dead game, imperial assault, and one blah dead game (Descent 2.0) AFTER they were done supporting physical releases. Any insinuation they will cancel support of their 2nd most popular title of the last 10 years (Champions is their first according Alliance dist, this is their 2nd in total sales for the time) is devoid of fact or history.
Second time I've just been trolling around TH-cam, started a video and had to exclaim "I know that guy!" Thanks for the awesome review Joel. Good to see you still kicking around the board game review space. If you're serious about running through it again, and you're still in the area, feel free to reach out. As an aside, I don't mind playing narrator roll :)
Hey Ashton. If I had the time I would for sure. I've got a pretty jugged schedule though, to be able to commit to that (and I think my main group would give me the stink eye) :)
@@DriveThruReview I get all those things, but I also know that sometimes there is a game that doesn't quite strike my main group right, and I never get to play it, no matter how much I want to. Figured I throw an offer out just in case that was the case for you.
Really appreciate not just this review but how you're so willing to adjust your tried and perfected review technique to try something new. Good luck in the comments: it has been quite bizarre to me how many people made up their minds on this one even prior to its release. Be well and stay well Joel (and please keep trying new and creative things!)
This is one of the best concise reviews for a board game that I've ever listened to. This is not because "Joel" is so good at what he does, but he tactfully reached every milk and cranny of what this game has to offer in greater detail than most "top guns" in for board game reviews. I must mention the team from "No Pun Included" - their humor does not overshadow the deep reviews that they make on select board games. This brings me back to Joel. He comes prepared for these reviews and it is very assuring and helpful. But even if you haven't been around these woods or know Joel, and are very interested to learn a little more about: Descent: Legends of the Dark before you take the big dive, you need not go further. TY Joel,
@@DriveThruReview Thanks again Joel. I thought that I listened and read through "other" content in some detail, but apparently not. Your eighth item - "crafting" was a total miss on my part on other reviews. I'm happy that you really went for it and explained it well enough. All these items add up toward a clearer and more defined stance on my part. Straddling a fence may be wise to a certain degree. Having to be absolutely pounded with reviews hinging only on the "app"-"no app" argument is not fair to a game that has so much more to offer. It was not too long ago when Fantasy Flight resurrected popular titles like 'Descent 2nd Ed." and "Imperial Assault" with apps. So it would not surprise me, if FF designers, even with newer faces, would not turn an ear, once again, to their fan base and come up with a campaign or two, totally on paper and cardboard via journals, charts, etc., while maintaining core mechanics, in order to appease and reach these die heart pure ("no app") board gamers. The details of "analog vs. digital" may belong in a totally different segment. For what it's worth, my take on the matter may be a bit generalized, but I truly believe that even an endlessly branching campaign that redirects itself through character actions, be it alignment infractions or totally random events, may be documented in analog form. What I'm trying to say is that even a 1,000-page journal can coexist and be presented in a simple digital format short of a massive ring-bound book. The latter may present itself as an "option" to some folks that seem so inraged by short-fused comments like: "Is it an app or a board game?"
What I love about the minis is that they come with a made base o you can just paint it and they look amazing. Even someone like me who speed paint them with army painters speed paint. They look gorgeous.
Wow, Joel so excited! Nice to hear. Thank you for your customary insight. I still haven't had a chance to play it yet (stupid COVID), and thanks to your recommendation I think I'll not start off solo. I appreciate that you went through the whole thing. When it comes to all your wishes, I'm optimistic at this point that some of those features will come out in Acts 2/3 and the odd xpac. Looking forward to your future thoughts on the entire system in hindsight. Let me know how you found it best to handle the app/device/reading material.
Thanks Joel! I have been REALLY looking forward to your thoughts on this game and it looks like a winner. I love Arkham Horror 2nd edition and this seems like a slight parallel to it. I was really skeptical of what this game would become but it seems to be right up my alley.
Thanks, Joel! I still don't know about this one. The sheer amount of 'gameplay' that's been offloaded into the digital sphere seem so extensive, how much would you say the physical components/parts of the game actually matter? Great review. Understandable why you've changed up your format for these past few games. Don't mind at all.
Very good video. Thank you for this. I am glad that you not only indicated price as one of your 10 points but also highlighted it in the summary at the end. I have enjoyed Gloomhaven and Middara, both in a similar price range to Descent LotD, which each providing 150-250 hours to play through the campaign (not counting re-playing), and I have difficulty comparing that with the 26 hours you mentioned for this game. I am certain that my wife and I would enjoy this game but the value (price/enjoyment) does not seem high.
I agree...this app is MUCH better than the other Descent app & the Imperial Assault app, and really brings this into its own. This game is what I wanted those others to be in terms of playability.
My experience with dungeon crawls is me looking for an rpg in a box, they are a pale comparison to that, granted not fair to compare them it's apples and oranges even though they scratch similar itches at times, but I heard you talking about the campaign and the build up and made me wonder what your level of experience with rpg's is?
Nice video, thank u! I must say, I love the game isn't voiceover and my 4 groups I play together we alle voiceover the different characters and this is super enjoyable instead of silence or one person talking all night long or just watching a movie. So ur also interactive on the table and there is alot of laugh if u talk out the lines loud instead of just reading it :p
Great video, I like your reviews they are always well structured. This game has been on my wishlist but I never purchased it because of all the negative reviews related to the experience, people saying they spend more time looking at the tablet than the game itself. Then what's the point of all the minis and terrain ? It's a huge deal for such a price. I keep telling myself "I'll find a better game, which I could play many time without getting bored". I still haven't found this game, it's difficult to pick the right game for this price range.
Thank you for this comprehensive review. Thanks to you, another copy of the game has been sold :) I hope the sandbox side of the game will come later, like the did for the second edition with "the delve".
I think they will make a random scenario generation mode like how they did for Descent 2e and Imperial Assault. They just need to release more expansions and acts for it to happen.
Every review I watched has a lot of negative to say, so I am happy I found one review that is really positive about the game. I just bought it and I am really excited to play it! The APP for me is a huge plus.
Terrinoth is my favourite tabletop setting so I'm glad this is doing well. That said, I'm an anti-app-dependency guy. I'm not saying apps are bad, I have bought Battleore Command as well as the physical Battleore Second Edition board game, but I do not want the two together-it's one of my top deal-breakers no matter how flawlessly designed and implemented it is. I can only hope for another purely analogue Terrinoth game and if they ever make a Terrinoth video game on the Switch, I'll 100% buy everything for it 😊
really? thats interesting, because as a fan im so used to people ragging on the setting. if inclined, would you provide further details? such as which incarnation got you hooked or was your first exposure (eg battlemist, diskwars, runebounds, descents, runewars/age, genesys, heroes, dragonholt) since imo those do not represent the same versions of terrinoth/mannara
@@gordo6908 Well it started with Battlelore Second Edition and Descent Second Edition. I bought them fairly early on in my time in the hobby as they reminded me of games I had as a kid (Battle Masters and HeroQuest respectively). Then the little bits of lore in the rule books got me further fascinated. I was infatuated with the art style too as it was like a happy medium between the childish disney and the angsty Warhammer and that, in turn, attracted me to other Terrinoth games like Rune Age, Runebound, and buying absolutely everything for all these games. As I picked up more and more tidbits of lore, I wanted more. Even though I am a solo gamer, I bought the Genesys RPG with the Realms of Terrinoth for more and Legacy of Dragonholt I bought without hesitation. I've also bought both Descent novels and the Battlelore command app. Heroes of Terrinoth was the last game I bought. So happy because I was already a fan of the system, having played WarhammerQuest ACG but now without the hassle of a campaign and in my favourite setting. Heck, I even bought some RuneWars Miniatures Game content for more lore and stuff to learn to paint on. Unfortunately I was too late to the party to get Battlemist or the original Disk Wars and, living in Australia, finding copies is near impossible, but if were to see them on a dusty shelf in the back corner of an FLGS, I'd snap them up without hesitation... just to see how far the setting has come. But this game was where I got off the Terrinoth train. The art style is great (reminds me of Aeon flux) but it is not the Terrinoth I fell in love with. And whilst I have used the app for Descent 2e, I dont HAVE to use the app. I'm free to play it-even solo-using my own rules or tonnes of the amazing variants created by the community. If the app for this game was OPTIONAL, I'd probably get it (and be happy to pay even more!) The art has evolved since Battlemist and again, slightly, after Runebound 2e/Descent 1e. This is a massive change, but one I might be able to get used to if it weren't for the app. Lastly, and more in agreement with you, it frustrates me so much when people criticise Mennara/Terrinoth as just "generic fantasy" because it is definitely not. This world has a history, names, places, religions etc. They don't have characters like 'Elven Archer' or 'Human Warrior'. That, by dictionary definition, would be "generic". Even if it were, wouldn't 'familiar' be a better term than 'generic'? If someone were to get married and have a couple of kids, how would they like to have their family criticised as being 'generic'?! I feel Terrinoth is familiar enough for people who are fans of other fantasy settings to get into whilst still having some rich lore to dive into should you wish 😊
got it for 100 euro and i love it. its awesome played solo and still great in a group. the terrain is fun to play with and the minis look beautifull. i hope FFF will do an add on with more quests and stuff.
I just ordered the game after watching this video, as this in-depth look and feel makes it obvious that this game is 100% suitable for me. Thanks for the great review !
@@DriveThruReview Sadly a reprint is unlikely due to the costs, but if our next project does well from what we have learned from the first, we might revist it :)
Thank for your efforts and review, I got it and now I just finished 4 quests solo, The question I already have Imperial Assault and played it solo with app and Imperial directive, Shall I get Descent 2E as well for only solo play? Or Legends of the dark is much superior?
Honestly, Legends of the Dark is vastly better to solo and use as an app driven games than those two. If you’re really enjoying it I would look at Journeys in Middle Earth and Mansions of Madness Second Edition.
just ordered this after your review. Looks like my kind of thing :) I have seen it set up before in a shop, but you explained away some of the issues that made me hesitant, The art is a bit subjective ... I'm not sure I like it, but it will grow on me I hope
From your comments on imperial assault, it's not entirely clear to me if you also played the app version of it (legends of the alliance). If so, did you also dislike it that much?
@@DriveThruReview That's very interesting. I've been watching your videos for many years now (whenever you cover a game that interests me), and I value your perspectives greatly. I love coop games and I have enjoyed both descent and imperial assault with the app. I might end up going for this one. It will be interesting to see if it will affect my feelings about the apps for the other games.
I just preordered a copy of Descent LotD from a local store. It's gonna be my first game (I play Blood bowl) and I have only played Blackstone Fortress with my friends. I've seen plenty of good and bad reviews but now (even with the preorder done) I'm mostly worried that this game might be fun just for 1 or 2 runs and not like something we can always play. Honestly, I was after Cursed City or even a Blackstone Fortress copy but they are gone for good, and thats what led me to this game. QUESTION: Would it be better as a first game to get something like Gloomhaven? Does Gloomhaven have more/better replayability? Both me and my friend who owns Blackstone Fortress are trying to get the rest of the group into gaming, so I'm looking for something they want to play again once we are done with the first run of the game. Thanks!
That’s a great question. Gloomhaven has more quests and “stuff” but for me it gets repetitive. A lot of the quests are kind of rinse and repeat. However, there is Jaws of the Lion which is like a mini Gloomhaven and only has like 30 quests instead of 90! And it’s relatively cheap compared to this or Gloomhaven proper. Personally I will play this again, so that’s like 30+ game sessions even before expansions… which (I’m not 100% sure) are supposed to be on the cheap side. They’ve not clarified their expansion model yet.
Also, if anyone thinks I should get a different game (Neither Descent nor Gloomhaven) please feel free to point me in the right direction, as I said, I'm a newbie but I'd like to start on the right foot with gaming.
@@DriveThruReview Wow, I wasn't expecting a response that quick, much less a response from you sir! First of all, huge thanks! Then, I guess I was wrong since I thought Gloomhaven was more sandboxy, hence the doubting between this and Gloomhaven. Price is not really a problem, my concern is that I need it to be fun and something that can get my group of friends addicted to friday night games. Expansions are super nice and I wasnt aware of them, that should expand the life of the game. Also, since we are starting out, I think an app driven game will be easier for us and it also frees one of us (prolly me) from the task of being "the bad guy" behind everything (I think GH doesnt require a GM). BTW, I live in Spain, English is not a problem but I find it easier to play with Spanish rules, thats why my pool of games might be more restricted than yours^^. Again, HUGE THANKS!
@@alejandrovictoriaorts162 Sure thing! I would also recommend Altar Quest as that is more of a pick and play game, that does still have some mini campaigns you can run through. It's more of a combo of Magic: The Gathering style card combos (not exactly.. but kind of) and a dungeon crawl. It's tough to find right now until a reprint.
@@DriveThruReview I'll keep an eye on Altar Quest, I already saw it was out of stock (too sad since I did play MtG on my teens and I'd probably would have loved that game) Thanks!
So Regarding replay ability…would the story be any different? You never really answered the question. And descent/imperial assault are awesome, you are nuts. Gloomhaven isn’t a dungeon crawl. It is a card game. Agree on altar quest.
To be clear I like Descent 2 and Imperial Assault.. I did NOT like the app in those games... at all. The story can be slightly different on replay. You will hit some same beats, but the nuance will be different and some of the personal character stuff will be different.
How do you feel about how heavily the app is used? I know you said you enjoy the app overall but there are arguments by many that because it's so app focused you're staring at the screen more than the board, in fact with a little more work the app could be played by itself and you wouldn't need the board game anymore. Is this troublesome with other players when you're all looking at a screen and trying to read off it instead of enjoying the board? Perhaps contrasting to Altar Quest that uses no app, has a static board and all the flavor and world building is through cards (or the campaign guide), do you feel there's a line between app and game that is starting to become too obscure or would you like to see more apps in the future?
I completely disagree that you're staying at the app more than the board. For a couple of minutes to setup terrain, and in between quests you are looking at the app, but the vast majority of the time is spent move around the board and fighting, flipping cards, etc... Maybe if those folks are using a phone and not something you can prop up like an iPad or laptop that would be the case? I would definitely NOT recommend using a phone for this. Then you would be buried in the app trying to parse it and then recite to others.
That's a very positive review, after hearing you mention not being that into Descent 2nd or Imperial Assault, I wonder if this game is sort of the Descent for people who don't like Descent, the way Gloomhaven was the dungeon crawler for people who hate dungeon crawlers. Watching gameplay online has made it look very boring to play for me, and also when it comes to the price I can't justify it knowing that if the gameplay is what makes it worth the cost, I can buy a AAA PC game and get 3 to 4 times the gameplay for 1/3 or even 1/4 the cost of this game. Maybe the ratio is even worse than that if you consider the gameplay on the PC is constant and active, while a huge amount of the board game time is spent doing maintenance, matching things up on the app, rolling and entering info, and so on.
I've not tried it, but the terrain here seems better to me. I've used some of the other terrain from Battlesystems, and while it's great, the way you can setup and tear down this terrain and build many different styles of environments that all commingle together is unapparelled imo.
Probably, my biggest gripe for this game is that it takes a long time to set up, and takes too much space. From screenshot/reviews, it looks like you really have to set yourself to the task of playing it.
This is right. I think honestly I would have to play the game through a couple of times to check all the possibilities, but one of the quests I lost was a "major" one and I definitely felt the effects. I don't think it changed the trajectory, but it certainly felt like it mattered.
@@DriveThruReview cool, it seems it has the same hero phase as the adventure systems, which I think has 2 actions or 3 I can't remember, haven't played those games in years.. didn't mansion of madness also do this and how does it compare? Easier then that. I never played it, but all the pieces made it look daunting, just like this.
@@DriveThruReview I can’t pull the trigger yet, I just got mansions of madness and expansions so I still have work to do there. This does look amazing. I’m a descent 1E fan. (2E didn’t do it for me). Thanks amigo for the video!
Well - there goes that $150. :) Thanks, Joel - I’ve learned that our tastes are very similar so your stamp of approval is good enough for me. Thanks very much for this review.
You're probably the first reviewer I've seen that said the story is great :) Everyone else I watched said it was so-so or cliche :) Excellent breakdown of the game though!
I would try but one main killer to me is art work style. Really don't like this artwork and that is basically a killer for me. The app I could get past. I think I am going to invest more into getting Shadows of Brimstone.
My biggest criticism so far is the cardboard dragon model its horrible. I think the terrain always fits in a 3ft x 3ft square the extent of the gaming space is shown in the app.
wish i could hate you. nah, but this is the first time I genuinly couldn't understand where you were coming from. do you truly want voice over? just reading/hearing others was enjoyable for me, maybe because it was one of the elements which still felt anolog. may have to rewatch some times as this feels bizarro world. backed gloomhaven and didn't like it, backed again for the solo scenarios and it was again tiresome, but still backed frosthaven hoping it'll be good. even with all that sunk, im still feel the time spent playing was more valuable than here. anyway, there were many moments where a concrete example would have been very helpful to understand your perspective or a comparison you were making for me, but i get you were avoiding spoilers. my favorite sandbox game for some time has been mage knight with 9 extra copies of the base game, a few lost legion expansions, and some custom components. beginning to think nothing will surpass chvatils monstrosity
I'm going to need a bigger table. But that's not happening this year, I'll just wait and see what else they release for the game, while I play some older games and expansions for what I have. Not like there's any lack of games out there.
Thanks for the review Joel! This format is fine, to be honest, it didn't feel really different from others. As I've probably mentioned I'm a *massive* Terrinoth fan. I have Runebound 2nd edition set up right now in fact and I also have Descent 2nd edition and I'm just really disappointed that this version of Descent doesn't look or feel like a Terrinoth game to me. The art especially is a turn off. This looks more like something I would expect from a kickstarter that didn't make it. The characters, tiles and minis from the other games just seem to have so much more life and diversity. Just compare the samey maps that you showed to the board of Runebound 2nd edition, not only has there not been an evolution but there seems to have been a few steps backwards! I'd much rather have different character Classes and treasure decks than crafting. It feels weird not being excited about or getting the next Terrinoth game but it just doesn't look or play like one. I had to choose between this and Kill Team Octarius. I'm still super excited for Octarius! :D (Although, I am a little worried that I'll "build it wrong" and wish I had assembled it to have different Team members since you can't build all of the different types. Any advice there Joel, or about whether I should primer and paint it before assembly? I'm kinda new at this.)
It drives me crazy that they don't use the Twilight Imperium theme more instead of the generic-ish fantasy. I think I will sell my painted imperial assault to make room for this, though. I just don't see myself playing IA anymore with games like Gloomhaven perpetually overshadowing it.
I love your reviews, but you should really check out Middara. Have crafting/slot upgrade items and the story is voice over and by far the best story in dungeon crawler in my opinion.
I'm still having a hard time buying in with this one. I hate using apps with board games. I feel like your always passing the device around so everyone can use it and always waiting. I don't have a tablet so I'd have to use my phone which most of them suck on. Also the setup and tear down of the terrain looks like it would use up a ton of play time. No way to play as the Overlord. How is tinkering with weapon upgrades not a video game and boring to others waiting for you to do it? So many glowing reviews for this one but I just don't see it in board game terms maybe some sort of hybrid video game experience but I'm starting to feel like we need a new category for games like this.
Certainly fair re: your notions about using an app, certainly when it’s going to be a phone. But the setup and tear down of terrain really becomes second nature pretty quickly. And honest to god tweaking weapons is a fun discussion at the table (using a tablet everyone can see).
Once you have assembled the terrain, the setup and pack away time is very short. Each scenario reveals only a portion of the map so that you set up your terrain as you progress though each chapter / mission / scene. This is one of the best design aspects and most fun to play features of the game. You explore your surroundings and make choices about what to explore - thus revealing more terrain.
@@SGCrutch Why is this note worthy? Descent, Descent 2nd ed, Imperial Assault, Mansions of Madness 2nd Ed all do exactly that, they just don't have "3D" terrain.
Hi. Great review finally from someone who played through the game. Only thing I missed from the Replayabilty part is the fact that this is only Act I. Imagine if it gets expansions, new monsters, new abilities and weapons. So in some way this is also an investment. I only wish KD:M would have an app like this.
Ya. I'm not very clear on how they will roll out new content. Will there by free or "cheap" DLC that comes out that you can use with the stuff you've already bought? Or will it be giant 150$ expansions? 40$ medium-sized expansions? I have no idea there. Hard to speculate.
@@DriveThruReview I could be totally misremembering this but I think in one of their live streams they said there wouldn't be any big expansions for this. Also, why haven't you painted your minis yet? I've got 12 left, they come up real nice with contrasts :)
@@selby2180 Haha. I was tempted but I got sucked into the campaign fierce and I wanted to make sure I liked it enough. I was stupid and painted up all of Cursed City before playing it. :)
@@selby2180 this is NOT correct. They said there WILL BE 2 additional Act's that are relatively this size (though continuing the story and make use of what's in this box while adding to it). They also stated they are looking at adding supplemental "smaller" content updates physically, and that they are not allowed to talk about "if" an unlimited dungeon crawl mode or adventure mode may be added in the future.
@@cjpeach11 oh yeah, I knew about the other acts but I thought Rach was meant to be a standalone game. I mean it would probably be weird to play them out of order but I thought it would be possible.
Wish these FFG app games put more time and love into the actual App. An update can easily turn this into a sandbox game where every one of your tiny decisions can lead to 1000s of different outcomes. No extra component required. Just download a patch. But as you said, chances are they wont do this. And I cant understand why?????
Interesting, A lot of what you were saying about the story I have heard the opposite from others. The story is shallow and the characters are bland and samey.
![ปฏิเสธไม่ไหว (Crush on you) - LIPTA feat. No One Else [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/NBw1jF342vw/mqdefault.jpg)
Thanks for this, the format was awesome. Having a “top 10” consisting of almost every gripe being talked about, some without having played the game, has finally helped me make an informed decision. There is potential in this format, if anyone digs it as much as I did. Be well.
Thanks Bob. Appreciate that.
We had a story teller for each mission. So we takes turns alternating each scenario having one person reading the story aloud and getting into character (as much as they want to). This allowed us to engage together in the story. We used normal difficulty for my Wife and I, and Hard for our 3/4 player games. Great time so far!! looking forward to the back half of the campaign.
Great review! About time someone with review credentials took the time to play through the game in order to discuss the positive aspects of Descent Legends. I have had more fun playing this ( 4 characters solo ) than most of my other games.
Thanks Stephen. Glad you’re enjoying it too.
4 characters solo is the best I think.
Descent 2nd Ed. got me into the hobby years ago, and I was very hesitant about this and all the negative buzz it was getting. Tom's review gave me more pause, but every review I have seen since has been wildly positive, so I pulled the trigger last week and it arrived yesterday. Today, you post this review and you have me so excited to get this to the table now! Always love your in-depth reviews. I met you at TokenCon in Oklahoma two years ago and let you know that your Eclipse review helped me find my favorite board game still to this day. Love your work. Thanks again for your contributions to our hobby.
Hey. Thanks Brock! Hope you enjoy it.
did you like it?
@@Selmarnf I would give it a mild recommendation. It does a lot of things really well, and the table presence is just awesome. Some of the sceanrios do some unique, fun things. My son and I are reaching the end of the campaign and I'm starting to have a little burn out on it, but I'm anxious to see how they can continue building on this new system they've created to make keep it fresh.
Great job! The most thorough review I have watched yet. Appreciate that you were able to review the game after you finished the campaign!
I was definitely on the fence on this one. Thank you for your great in depth description of the game.
Wow, that’s quite the endorsement…. from one of the most, if not thee most, trusted sources. Period. Thank you Joel!
Way too kind! Thank you.
Fantastic review! I really enjoyed the format, and I agree with your take on the game! I haven't finished it yet, but I'm thoroughly enjoying the ride.
Thanks Tim.
You hit the nail on the price Joel!! It might be expensive but I feel it is justified by the amazing minis, gorgeous 3D terrain, great app and included storage solution all in a massive box.
The miniatures are the best single cast sculpts I have ever seen (shame about the dragon).
People are paying $200-$300 for games these days.
As someone who was genuinely excited when it was first announced and spent a good bit of Internet karma (lol) advocating for it on social media, I really enjoy seeing games blow up in popularity and come out against the echo chamber that exists in our hobby; it is oddly satisfying. Thank you for your awesome review. I really respect your perception on things.
Point 5, I think you really need to pay attention to completing feats to not miss out on skills. Also using the undying skull is also key to getting upgraded recipes.
Thank you for this very in-depth video! There are things about this that sound amazing (nice terrain, fleshed out world, interesting story), but other things that seem custom designed to push me away as a player (too small on a phone, requires a massive table, constantly going between table and tablet). I hope one day FFG makes a fully digital implementation because I would buy that immediately.
And as someone who plays dungeon games specifically to play as the overlord/GM, I think that's the one thing that makes me feel slighted by this direction in the hobby and makes me feel pushed away.
First off, love the channel. You do a fantastic job. I have to disagree on this not being like Heroquest though. As someone who grew up playing, and who still plays Heroquest, and Warhammer Quest (1995), this version of Descent (LotD) is the first game since then to give me the same feel, mainly because of the props and the way exploration is handled. In fact I would say this is an improvement in many ways over Heroquest. I would absolutely call this a dungeon crawler in the same vein as Heroquest and Warhammer Quest 95. Also I would never call Descent 2E a dungeon crawler. It's nothing of the sort. Descent 2E is a tactical miniatures game. One that is heavily time based. Very little in the way of exploration and certainly not in the same vein as Heroquest.
Over the years I've looked for a modern Heroquest. Followed the suggestions on BGG and Reddit, only to be disappointed. Nothing people on BGG or Reddit have recommended is like Heroquest to me. Nothing in the list maintained on BGG is like Heroquest. I've tried them all and in my opinion, this version of Descent is the first game that nails it.
Also it should be fairly easy to design your own quests without the app. The core stats and mechanics are actually very simple. I'm guessing someone will soon extract monster info from the app and make a compendium.
I think you’re reacting to my opening and not points 9 and 10 .
But I agree :)
Great video. I really liked the format! Thank you!
After playing Middara (a phenomenal game) I still enjoy Descent quite a lot. In Middara, there is a lot of back and forth between the game and the book as well as a lot of mental math involved with combat and spell casting as well as dodging and countering. Overall, I enjoy the apps purpose in Descent. It helps me focus more on the journey and task at hand. Great review and very informative! I loved Descent!
I wanted to add a little personal story referring to the price of Descent. Yes, it is expensive and you did an amazing job breaking down your thought process on this matter. Here’s what I think people generally don’t think about. I took my wife and kids to the movies a few weeks ago. Between the movie and snacks, I spent almost $100. Two hours later, the movie was over and I was left feeling very underwhelmed. Don’t get me wrong, I enjoyed spending time with the family but $100 for barely 2 hours of subpar entertainment! No way do I think that is worth it. Descent, on the other hand, has already given me my money’s worth! If people were to compare the cost of other forms of entertainment versus what they can get out of board games (Descent in this example), they would realize it really isn’t that expensive after all.
Loved the new review structure! It flows really nicely.
I'm still on the fence about this one, the price is just crazy. But your strong point at the end helps pushing me to the "get it now!" side!
I really appreciate your reviews. I’m not sure how to describe what I’m thinking but I’ll try. It’s almost that you approach a game willing to have fun and let that fun be natural. A game doesn’t have to be perfect, you just love spending time with others, playing games. It’s almost, like you can have fun playing anything.
With that being said thanks for reviewing this game. Without any crotchety old man vibes I can honestly say I have no interest in this game. I just feel like it’s everything I’d want in a video game. I’d just rather replay Dragon Age. I just look for different things in my board games. I can’t put my finger on it. Anyways very glad you had a lot of fun with it and I hope you get to play through it again
I am surprised by how positive this review is. I agree with your comments about the story, that said I am keeping Descent 2,there is nothing more fun than being the overlord, choosing the monsters etc
And when that app goes down, which we all know it will, you'll still be in good shape.
@@timd4524 when the app goes down..... not sure what that means, I can still use the golem arcana one, despite it not being updated. And to prevent that from happening FFG has the app on steam and as an external launcher on pc. So I have the files, the app will never not work. It might be updated but I am not sure after 2 plays of the campaign that matters.
I would also note, FFG put out apps for 1 dead game, imperial assault, and one blah dead game (Descent 2.0) AFTER they were done supporting physical releases. Any insinuation they will cancel support of their 2nd most popular title of the last 10 years (Champions is their first according Alliance dist, this is their 2nd in total sales for the time) is devoid of fact or history.
Second time I've just been trolling around TH-cam, started a video and had to exclaim "I know that guy!" Thanks for the awesome review Joel. Good to see you still kicking around the board game review space. If you're serious about running through it again, and you're still in the area, feel free to reach out. As an aside, I don't mind playing narrator roll :)
Hey Ashton. If I had the time I would for sure. I've got a pretty jugged schedule though, to be able to commit to that (and I think my main group would give me the stink eye) :)
@@DriveThruReview I get all those things, but I also know that sometimes there is a game that doesn't quite strike my main group right, and I never get to play it, no matter how much I want to. Figured I throw an offer out just in case that was the case for you.
@@Ashton687 Noted. Definitely run into that now and again.
@@Ashton687 l
Really appreciate not just this review but how you're so willing to adjust your tried and perfected review technique to try something new. Good luck in the comments: it has been quite bizarre to me how many people made up their minds on this one even prior to its release.
Be well and stay well Joel (and please keep trying new and creative things!)
Thank you sir. Appreciate it.
That was me. My mind is rapidly changing.
This is one of the best concise reviews for a board game that I've ever listened to. This is not because "Joel" is so good at what he does, but he tactfully reached every milk and cranny of what this game has to offer in greater detail than most "top guns" in for board game reviews. I must mention the team from "No Pun Included" - their humor does not overshadow the deep reviews that they make on select board games.
This brings me back to Joel. He comes prepared for these reviews and it is very assuring and helpful. But even if you haven't been around these woods or know Joel, and are very interested to learn a little more about: Descent: Legends of the Dark before you take the big dive, you need not go further.
TY Joel,
Wow. Thank you Edward. I appreciate that. Really. Thank you.
@@DriveThruReview
Thanks again Joel. I thought that I listened and read through "other" content in some detail, but apparently not. Your eighth item - "crafting" was a total miss on my part on other reviews. I'm happy that you really went for it and explained it well enough. All these items add up toward a clearer and more defined stance on my part. Straddling a fence may be wise to a certain degree.
Having to be absolutely pounded with reviews hinging only on the "app"-"no app" argument is not fair to a game that has so much more to offer. It was not too long ago when Fantasy Flight resurrected popular titles like 'Descent 2nd Ed." and "Imperial Assault" with apps. So it would not surprise me, if FF designers, even with newer faces, would not turn an ear, once again, to their fan base and come up with a campaign or two, totally on paper and cardboard via journals, charts, etc., while maintaining core mechanics, in order to appease and reach these die heart pure ("no app") board gamers.
The details of "analog vs. digital" may belong in a totally different segment. For what it's worth, my take on the matter may be a bit generalized, but I truly believe that even an endlessly branching campaign that redirects itself through character actions, be it alignment infractions or totally random events, may be documented in analog form. What I'm trying to say is that even a 1,000-page journal can coexist and be presented in a simple digital format short of a massive ring-bound book. The latter may present itself as an "option" to some folks that seem so inraged by short-fused comments like: "Is it an app or a board game?"
Thx for your review. I watched about 5-6 other reviews, but your's finally convinced me, trying it out😉
Hope you enjoy it!
This video sold me and my copy comes in two days, hope I enjoy it as much you did :)
I hope so too! Have fun.
What I love about the minis is that they come with a made base o you can just paint it and they look amazing. Even someone like me who speed paint them with army painters speed paint. They look gorgeous.
100%. Love the bases.
Wow, Joel so excited! Nice to hear. Thank you for your customary insight.
I still haven't had a chance to play it yet (stupid COVID), and thanks to your recommendation I think I'll not start off solo. I appreciate that you went through the whole thing.
When it comes to all your wishes, I'm optimistic at this point that some of those features will come out in Acts 2/3 and the odd xpac. Looking forward to your future thoughts on the entire system in hindsight.
Let me know how you found it best to handle the app/device/reading material.
Thanks Joel! I have been REALLY looking forward to your thoughts on this game and it looks like a winner. I love Arkham Horror 2nd edition and this seems like a slight parallel to it. I was really skeptical of what this game would become but it seems to be right up my alley.
Wish you would have shown the painted minis like you do for Warhammer. You still have the best reviews.
Thanks, Joel! I still don't know about this one. The sheer amount of 'gameplay' that's been offloaded into the digital sphere seem so extensive, how much would you say the physical components/parts of the game actually matter? Great review. Understandable why you've changed up your format for these past few games. Don't mind at all.
The physical components matter a ton! See my comments in the section about the terrain specifically.
Very good video. Thank you for this.
I am glad that you not only indicated price as one of your 10 points but also highlighted it in the summary at the end. I have enjoyed Gloomhaven and Middara, both in a similar price range to Descent LotD, which each providing 150-250 hours to play through the campaign (not counting re-playing), and I have difficulty comparing that with the 26 hours you mentioned for this game. I am certain that my wife and I would enjoy this game but the value (price/enjoyment) does not seem high.
One of the best Game Reviews i have seen. Thanks
Thank you. Appreciate it.
Great insight, I'm glad I have it on my shelf. Can't wait to get it to the table!
Thanks for this review, I really like the top 10 structure.
I agree...this app is MUCH better than the other Descent app & the Imperial Assault app, and really brings this into its own. This game is what I wanted those others to be in terms of playability.
I agree here. I hope wizards of the coast take a page from this book and we might see app run boxed dnd adventures.
Damn, how could you? It was so off my list! Fantastic review. Damn.
My experience with dungeon crawls is me looking for an rpg in a box, they are a pale comparison to that, granted not fair to compare them it's apples and oranges even though they scratch similar itches at times, but I heard you talking about the campaign and the build up and made me wonder what your level of experience with rpg's is?
I dabble.... at best. I've run some games and played in some games, probably about 10 (?) total games in my lifetime?
Great review my man!
Thank you!
We read the dialoges together as a group and presented our oen characters ofc. Its fun
Thanks for this great review, much appreciated.
Nice video, thank u! I must say, I love the game isn't voiceover and my 4 groups I play together we alle voiceover the different characters and this is super enjoyable instead of silence or one person talking all night long or just watching a movie. So ur also interactive on the table and there is alot of laugh if u talk out the lines loud instead of just reading it :p
A great review!
Curious about the expansion which for some reason is even more expensive..
(..and makes me even more curious about it)
Thank you. I've not tried the expansion as of yet.
Great video, I like your reviews they are always well structured. This game has been on my wishlist but I never purchased it because of all the negative reviews related to the experience, people saying they spend more time looking at the tablet than the game itself. Then what's the point of all the minis and terrain ? It's a huge deal for such a price. I keep telling myself "I'll find a better game, which I could play many time without getting bored". I still haven't found this game, it's difficult to pick the right game for this price range.
Thank you for this comprehensive review. Thanks to you, another copy of the game has been sold :)
I hope the sandbox side of the game will come later, like the did for the second edition with "the delve".
Hope you enjoy it!
100%! This thing is a rockstar. :)
I think they will make a random scenario generation mode like how they did for Descent 2e and Imperial Assault. They just need to release more expansions and acts for it to happen.
Every review I watched has a lot of negative to say, so I am happy I found one review that is really positive about the game.
I just bought it and I am really excited to play it!
The APP for me is a huge plus.
Pleasantly surprised that the game is good. Worth watching if you are on the fence.
Descent LOTD has the best story in a board game? What is your opinion on Tainted Grail in term of story integration?
I did not care for that game at all unfortunately.
Terrinoth is my favourite tabletop setting so I'm glad this is doing well.
That said, I'm an anti-app-dependency guy. I'm not saying apps are bad, I have bought Battleore Command as well as the physical Battleore Second Edition board game, but I do not want the two together-it's one of my top deal-breakers no matter how flawlessly designed and implemented it is.
I can only hope for another purely analogue Terrinoth game and if they ever make a Terrinoth video game on the Switch, I'll 100% buy everything for it 😊
really? thats interesting, because as a fan im so used to people ragging on the setting. if inclined, would you provide further details? such as which incarnation got you hooked or was your first exposure (eg battlemist, diskwars, runebounds, descents, runewars/age, genesys, heroes, dragonholt) since imo those do not represent the same versions of terrinoth/mannara
@@gordo6908 Well it started with Battlelore Second Edition and Descent Second Edition.
I bought them fairly early on in my time in the hobby as they reminded me of games I had as a kid (Battle Masters and HeroQuest respectively).
Then the little bits of lore in the rule books got me further fascinated.
I was infatuated with the art style too as it was like a happy medium between the childish disney and the angsty Warhammer and that, in turn, attracted me to other Terrinoth games like Rune Age, Runebound, and buying absolutely everything for all these games.
As I picked up more and more tidbits of lore, I wanted more. Even though I am a solo gamer, I bought the Genesys RPG with the Realms of Terrinoth for more and Legacy of Dragonholt I bought without hesitation. I've also bought both Descent novels and the Battlelore command app.
Heroes of Terrinoth was the last game I bought. So happy because I was already a fan of the system, having played WarhammerQuest ACG but now without the hassle of a campaign and in my favourite setting.
Heck, I even bought some RuneWars Miniatures Game content for more lore and stuff to learn to paint on.
Unfortunately I was too late to the party to get Battlemist or the original Disk Wars and, living in Australia, finding copies is near impossible, but if were to see them on a dusty shelf in the back corner of an FLGS, I'd snap them up without hesitation... just to see how far the setting has come.
But this game was where I got off the Terrinoth train. The art style is great (reminds me of Aeon flux) but it is not the Terrinoth I fell in love with. And whilst I have used the app for Descent 2e, I dont HAVE to use the app. I'm free to play it-even solo-using my own rules or tonnes of the amazing variants created by the community.
If the app for this game was OPTIONAL, I'd probably get it (and be happy to pay even more!) The art has evolved since Battlemist and again, slightly, after Runebound 2e/Descent 1e. This is a massive change, but one I might be able to get used to if it weren't for the app.
Lastly, and more in agreement with you, it frustrates me so much when people criticise Mennara/Terrinoth as just "generic fantasy" because it is definitely not. This world has a history, names, places, religions etc. They don't have characters like 'Elven Archer' or 'Human Warrior'. That, by dictionary definition, would be "generic".
Even if it were, wouldn't 'familiar' be a better term than 'generic'?
If someone were to get married and have a couple of kids, how would they like to have their family criticised as being 'generic'?!
I feel Terrinoth is familiar enough for people who are fans of other fantasy settings to get into whilst still having some rich lore to dive into should you wish 😊
got it for 100 euro and i love it. its awesome played solo and still great in a group. the terrain is fun to play with and the minis look beautifull. i hope FFF will do an add on with more quests and stuff.
They just announced the first expansion a couple of weeks ago :)
Yes act two is coming. They threw a teaser video on their Twitter.
I just ordered the game after watching this video, as this in-depth look and feel makes it obvious that this game is 100% suitable for me. Thanks for the great review !
Hope you enjoy it!
Such a pleasure to watch thank you
I own this but haven’t played it yet. Now I will!
Nice. Hope you enjoy it!
Considering your knowledge on the subject I would have been very curious to know of your experience with Darklight: Memento Mori :)
I’ve heard of it. I’d like to try it, but it seems hard to find. Hopefully they will do another Kickstarter.
@@DriveThruReview Sadly a reprint is unlikely due to the costs, but if our next project does well from what we have learned from the first, we might revist it :)
Nice review thanks so much 😊
Thank for your efforts and review, I got it and now I just finished 4 quests solo, The question I already have Imperial Assault and played it solo with app and Imperial directive, Shall I get Descent 2E as well for only solo play? Or Legends of the dark is much superior?
Honestly, Legends of the Dark is vastly better to solo and use as an app driven games than those two. If you’re really enjoying it I would look at Journeys in Middle Earth and Mansions of Madness Second Edition.
@@DriveThruReview Thank you I already have MOM2E so I should check JIME as well Altar quest as you mentioned it is the best dungeon crawler 😊
just ordered this after your review. Looks like my kind of thing :) I have seen it set up before in a shop, but you explained away some of the issues that made me hesitant, The art is a bit subjective ... I'm not sure I like it, but it will grow on me I hope
Hope you enjoy it!
Thanks for the extensive thoughts.
From your comments on imperial assault, it's not entirely clear to me if you also played the app version of it (legends of the alliance). If so, did you also dislike it that much?
Yes and yes. I think I disliked it even more than the Descent 2.0 app actually.
@@DriveThruReview That's very interesting. I've been watching your videos for many years now (whenever you cover a game that interests me), and I value your perspectives greatly. I love coop games and I have enjoyed both descent and imperial assault with the app. I might end up going for this one. It will be interesting to see if it will affect my feelings about the apps for the other games.
I just preordered a copy of Descent LotD from a local store. It's gonna be my first game (I play Blood bowl) and I have only played Blackstone Fortress with my friends. I've seen plenty of good and bad reviews but now (even with the preorder done) I'm mostly worried that this game might be fun just for 1 or 2 runs and not like something we can always play. Honestly, I was after Cursed City or even a Blackstone Fortress copy but they are gone for good, and thats what led me to this game. QUESTION: Would it be better as a first game to get something like Gloomhaven? Does Gloomhaven have more/better replayability? Both me and my friend who owns Blackstone Fortress are trying to get the rest of the group into gaming, so I'm looking for something they want to play again once we are done with the first run of the game. Thanks!
That’s a great question. Gloomhaven has more quests and “stuff” but for me it gets repetitive. A lot of the quests are kind of rinse and repeat. However, there is Jaws of the Lion which is like a mini Gloomhaven and only has like 30 quests instead of 90! And it’s relatively cheap compared to this or Gloomhaven proper.
Personally I will play this again, so that’s like 30+ game sessions even before expansions… which (I’m not 100% sure) are supposed to be on the cheap side. They’ve not clarified their expansion model yet.
Also, if anyone thinks I should get a different game (Neither Descent nor Gloomhaven) please feel free to point me in the right direction, as I said, I'm a newbie but I'd like to start on the right foot with gaming.
@@DriveThruReview Wow, I wasn't expecting a response that quick, much less a response from you sir! First of all, huge thanks! Then, I guess I was wrong since I thought Gloomhaven was more sandboxy, hence the doubting between this and Gloomhaven. Price is not really a problem, my concern is that I need it to be fun and something that can get my group of friends addicted to friday night games. Expansions are super nice and I wasnt aware of them, that should expand the life of the game. Also, since we are starting out, I think an app driven game will be easier for us and it also frees one of us (prolly me) from the task of being "the bad guy" behind everything (I think GH doesnt require a GM).
BTW, I live in Spain, English is not a problem but I find it easier to play with Spanish rules, thats why my pool of games might be more restricted than yours^^. Again, HUGE THANKS!
@@alejandrovictoriaorts162 Sure thing! I would also recommend Altar Quest as that is more of a pick and play game, that does still have some mini campaigns you can run through. It's more of a combo of Magic: The Gathering style card combos (not exactly.. but kind of) and a dungeon crawl. It's tough to find right now until a reprint.
@@DriveThruReview I'll keep an eye on Altar Quest, I already saw it was out of stock (too sad since I did play MtG on my teens and I'd probably would have loved that game) Thanks!
So Regarding replay ability…would the story be any different? You never really answered the question.
And descent/imperial assault are awesome, you are nuts. Gloomhaven isn’t a dungeon crawl. It is a card game. Agree on altar quest.
To be clear I like Descent 2 and Imperial Assault.. I did NOT like the app in those games... at all. The story can be slightly different on replay. You will hit some same beats, but the nuance will be different and some of the personal character stuff will be different.
How do you feel about how heavily the app is used? I know you said you enjoy the app overall but there are arguments by many that because it's so app focused you're staring at the screen more than the board, in fact with a little more work the app could be played by itself and you wouldn't need the board game anymore. Is this troublesome with other players when you're all looking at a screen and trying to read off it instead of enjoying the board? Perhaps contrasting to Altar Quest that uses no app, has a static board and all the flavor and world building is through cards (or the campaign guide), do you feel there's a line between app and game that is starting to become too obscure or would you like to see more apps in the future?
I completely disagree that you're staying at the app more than the board. For a couple of minutes to setup terrain, and in between quests you are looking at the app, but the vast majority of the time is spent move around the board and fighting, flipping cards, etc...
Maybe if those folks are using a phone and not something you can prop up like an iPad or laptop that would be the case? I would definitely NOT recommend using a phone for this. Then you would be buried in the app trying to parse it and then recite to others.
That's a very positive review, after hearing you mention not being that into Descent 2nd or Imperial Assault, I wonder if this game is sort of the Descent for people who don't like Descent, the way Gloomhaven was the dungeon crawler for people who hate dungeon crawlers. Watching gameplay online has made it look very boring to play for me, and also when it comes to the price I can't justify it knowing that if the gameplay is what makes it worth the cost, I can buy a AAA PC game and get 3 to 4 times the gameplay for 1/3 or even 1/4 the cost of this game. Maybe the ratio is even worse than that if you consider the gameplay on the PC is constant and active, while a huge amount of the board game time is spent doing maintenance, matching things up on the app, rolling and entering info, and so on.
I would say that the maintenance etc... is not a "huge" part. It's a significant part, but those activities only added to the engagement for me.
Love this game. Got my wife and I into TTG’s
Awesome.
When my family and I played we used my phone and screen mirrored it and read it together
Where did you get those shelves holding all the miniatures?
Amazon: www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07PQHNXMJ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 :)
I wonder if you have tried Core Space and how the terrain would compare
I've not tried it, but the terrain here seems better to me. I've used some of the other terrain from Battlesystems, and while it's great, the way you can setup and tear down this terrain and build many different styles of environments that all commingle together is unapparelled imo.
Probably, my biggest gripe for this game is that it takes a long time to set up, and takes too much space. From screenshot/reviews, it looks like you really have to set yourself to the task of playing it.
Not only that but the terrain can fuel many other games. Like rpgs or war games. Or just to bling other games.
What happens when u lose a quest? Any permanent game effects?
I think Joel said there was a change in the tone of the narrative. :3
This is right. I think honestly I would have to play the game through a couple of times to check all the possibilities, but one of the quests I lost was a "major" one and I definitely felt the effects. I don't think it changed the trajectory, but it certainly felt like it mattered.
Is this easy to learn. I am familiar with the DnD adventure systems which has the dungeon master in the cards and tiles
Very much so. The app guides through most of it, and the rules are easy enough to reference and not too long.
@@DriveThruReview cool, it seems it has the same hero phase as the adventure systems, which I think has 2 actions or 3 I can't remember, haven't played those games in years.. didn't mansion of madness also do this and how does it compare? Easier then that. I never played it, but all the pieces made it look daunting, just like this.
@@DriveThruReview will you be reviewing the ghosts of salt Marsh adventure system expansion?
@@alucard2010 Most likely not. I haven't played any of those games since Legend of Drizzt. Descent is a bit easier to get into than Mansions.
Do you think that this will have expansions?
They’ve said it will for sure.
@@DriveThruReview I can’t pull the trigger yet, I just got mansions of madness and expansions so I still have work to do there. This does look amazing. I’m a descent 1E fan. (2E didn’t do it for me). Thanks amigo for the video!
Well - there goes that $150. :) Thanks, Joel - I’ve learned that our tastes are very similar so your stamp of approval is good enough for me. Thanks very much for this review.
Hope you enjoy it Drew.
You're probably the first reviewer I've seen that said the story is great :) Everyone else I watched said it was so-so or cliche :) Excellent breakdown of the game though!
I mean... for a board game.... there was real tangible stakes and drama for the characters. I'll die on that hill :)
Altar quest for me is too repetitive. Choices are very limited. I enjoy it but now looking to sell my all in pledge.
I would try but one main killer to me is art work style. Really don't like this artwork and that is basically a killer for me. The app I could get past. I think I am going to invest more into getting Shadows of Brimstone.
Managed to grab a sealed copy for 90€ today..!
Score!
My biggest criticism so far is the cardboard dragon model its horrible. I think the terrain always fits in a 3ft x 3ft square the extent of the gaming space is shown in the app.
That’s correct re the 3x3. In the video I was including space for the cards etc
@@DriveThruReview Agreed when you include that its one of the bigger games. I have it setup on a 6 foot by 4 foot table.
wish i could hate you.
nah, but this is the first time I genuinly couldn't understand where you were coming from. do you truly want voice over? just reading/hearing others was enjoyable for me, maybe because it was one of the elements which still felt anolog. may have to rewatch some times as this feels bizarro world.
backed gloomhaven and didn't like it, backed again for the solo scenarios and it was again tiresome, but still backed frosthaven hoping it'll be good. even with all that sunk, im still feel the time spent playing was more valuable than here.
anyway, there were many moments where a concrete example would have been very helpful to understand your perspective or a comparison you were making for me, but i get you were avoiding spoilers.
my favorite sandbox game for some time has been mage knight with 9 extra copies of the base game, a few lost legion expansions, and some custom components. beginning to think nothing will surpass chvatils monstrosity
I don't think anything could replace MageKnight for me, it's one of the best games I've ever played and has remained so since I first got into it. :)
I'm going to need a bigger table. But that's not happening this year, I'll just wait and see what else they release for the game, while I play some older games and expansions for what I have. Not like there's any lack of games out there.
Thanks for the review Joel! This format is fine, to be honest, it didn't feel really different from others. As I've probably mentioned I'm a *massive* Terrinoth fan. I have Runebound 2nd edition set up right now in fact and I also have Descent 2nd edition and I'm just really disappointed that this version of Descent doesn't look or feel like a Terrinoth game to me. The art especially is a turn off. This looks more like something I would expect from a kickstarter that didn't make it. The characters, tiles and minis from the other games just seem to have so much more life and diversity. Just compare the samey maps that you showed to the board of Runebound 2nd edition, not only has there not been an evolution but there seems to have been a few steps backwards! I'd much rather have different character Classes and treasure decks than crafting. It feels weird not being excited about or getting the next Terrinoth game but it just doesn't look or play like one. I had to choose between this and Kill Team Octarius. I'm still super excited for Octarius! :D (Although, I am a little worried that I'll "build it wrong" and wish I had assembled it to have different Team members since you can't build all of the different types. Any advice there Joel, or about whether I should primer and paint it before assembly? I'm kinda new at this.)
Build it all before you prime and paint it 100%. :)
Thanks for the thoughts, a really good list. For me a theme makes and breaks the game - if they do Star Wars version of this one I'll buy in😁
It drives me crazy that they don't use the Twilight Imperium theme more instead of the generic-ish fantasy. I think I will sell my painted imperial assault to make room for this, though. I just don't see myself playing IA anymore with games like Gloomhaven perpetually overshadowing it.
I love your reviews, but you should really check out Middara. Have crafting/slot upgrade items and the story is voice over and by far the best story in dungeon crawler in my opinion.
Second person to mention that in the comments. I was close to backing it. Should have.
I'm still having a hard time buying in with this one. I hate using apps with board games. I feel like your always passing the device around so everyone can use it and always waiting. I don't have a tablet so I'd have to use my phone which most of them suck on. Also the setup and tear down of the terrain looks like it would use up a ton of play time. No way to play as the Overlord. How is tinkering with weapon upgrades not a video game and boring to others waiting for you to do it? So many glowing reviews for this one but I just don't see it in board game terms maybe some sort of hybrid video game experience but I'm starting to feel like we need a new category for games like this.
Certainly fair re: your notions about using an app, certainly when it’s going to be a phone. But the setup and tear down of terrain really becomes second nature pretty quickly.
And honest to god tweaking weapons is a fun discussion at the table (using a tablet everyone can see).
Once you have assembled the terrain, the setup and pack away time is very short. Each scenario reveals only a portion of the map so that you set up your terrain as you progress though each chapter / mission / scene. This is one of the best design aspects and most fun to play features of the game. You explore your surroundings and make choices about what to explore - thus revealing more terrain.
@@SGCrutch Why is this note worthy? Descent, Descent 2nd ed, Imperial Assault, Mansions of Madness 2nd Ed all do exactly that, they just don't have "3D" terrain.
Hi.
Great review finally from someone who played through the game.
Only thing I missed from the Replayabilty part is the fact that this is only Act I. Imagine if it gets expansions, new monsters, new abilities and weapons. So in some way this is also an investment. I only wish KD:M would have an app like this.
Ya. I'm not very clear on how they will roll out new content. Will there by free or "cheap" DLC that comes out that you can use with the stuff you've already bought? Or will it be giant 150$ expansions? 40$ medium-sized expansions? I have no idea there. Hard to speculate.
@@DriveThruReview I could be totally misremembering this but I think in one of their live streams they said there wouldn't be any big expansions for this. Also, why haven't you painted your minis yet? I've got 12 left, they come up real nice with contrasts :)
@@selby2180 Haha. I was tempted but I got sucked into the campaign fierce and I wanted to make sure I liked it enough. I was stupid and painted up all of Cursed City before playing it. :)
@@selby2180 this is NOT correct. They said there WILL BE 2 additional Act's that are relatively this size (though continuing the story and make use of what's in this box while adding to it). They also stated they are looking at adding supplemental "smaller" content updates physically, and that they are not allowed to talk about "if" an unlimited dungeon crawl mode or adventure mode may be added in the future.
@@cjpeach11 oh yeah, I knew about the other acts but I thought Rach was meant to be a standalone game. I mean it would probably be weird to play them out of order but I thought it would be possible.
Wish these FFG app games put more time and love into the actual App. An update can easily turn this into a sandbox game where every one of your tiny decisions can lead to 1000s of different outcomes. No extra component required. Just download a patch. But as you said, chances are they wont do this. And I cant understand why?????
To be fair… they spent an amazing amount of time an effort in the app. But ya, I’d love a sandbox update down the road.
Interesting, A lot of what you were saying about the story I have heard the opposite from others. The story is shallow and the characters are bland and samey.
For a board game.... there was real tangible stakes and drama for the characters. I'll die on that hill :)
Have you lost weight? You look really good
Thank you. I have actually lost a bit :)