Hello you beauties. Get my free Reading List of 100 life-changing books - chriswillx.com/books/. Here’s the timestamps: 00:00 Intro 00:33 What Qualifies Mary to Critique Feminism? 09:00 Hasn’t There Been Progress for Women Since the Industrial Revolution? 21:28 Feminism After the 1800s 25:50 When Men ‘White-Knight’ for Women 30:20 The Impact of the Sexual Revolution 39:02 What are the Motivations Behind Modern Feminist Progress? 58:25 The Worrying Rise of 'Transhumanism' 1:11:21 Society’s Need to Abolish ‘Big Romance’ 1:25:02 Is the Sexual Revolution Sidelining Men? 1:32:16 The Feminist Case for Not Taking the Pill 1:38:24 How People Can Help to Abolish ‘Big Romance’ 1:43:26 Where to Find Mary
I wanted to add a cultural note about women in Japan, who have more direct economic power in their households than women do here in the United States. Men typically work outside the home, but deposit their paycheck into a joint account which the women control. When I lived in Japan for 5 years (I worked as a translator for a Japanese auto manufacturer), the "salariman" I worked with from the home office would sometimes ask for someone else to pick up their tab when we went out to a Japanese pub after work. They sheepishly complained that the allowance their wives gave them every month had run out and they wouldn't get any more until pay day! Also, this system explains why I was asked by the bank teller when I opened up a bank account there if I wanted the annual Christmas bonus to go in a special account. "No, why would I do that?" "It's a special account separate from the account your regular paycheck goes in." "I'm sorry, I still don't see why I would need that..." The bank teller then asked me, "Excuse me, sir, for asking this question, but--are you married?" "Uh, no, I'm single." "Oh, then, never mind!" When I told my boss about this, he hurried me away from the communal desk and the OLs (office ladies) and told me about the "special account" as if he were revealing sensitive state secrets. NOW I knew why they had it--to keep it away from their wives!
Would that system work in the West where 85% of retail is exclusively for women? Those Japanese women are probably a lot more frugal and careful with money than their Western counterparts, because a system like that in the West would send many a family bankrupt in just a few years.
I’m working at a University, I just started last week. I’m a friendly gentleman and being 35 I was naive to how feminism and the thought process of hating men has seeped into every part of higher education. Which leads me to what happened this past week. I was almost fired for being “too friendly” to my co workers, all of them are females and most of them are obese. They told me I can’t smile or ask how people’s days are because that’s creepy now. This is where we are. Now I’m waiting to hopefully transfer to another department where it’s less people but still all female unfortunately
Get out entirely. The entire enterprise is bankrupt. You didn’t join a nursing department or a child care centre for the same reason. Toxic femininity is impossible to deal with.
@@n.t.495 it really is! I was so enthusiastic to help students figure out what they wanted to do as it’s a college advisor role and the first point of contact for the school. I went into this job thinking I would be able to smile and be kind towards students and when I was shadowing the female co worker whom is an advisor of sevral months, she was very cold and rude towards a student who had questions regarding his major. I may end up resigning tomorrow and moving on
@@PaulAllen786 It doesn't sound like she's there to help anyone but herself. She wants a paycheck, medical, and good pension. Horrible. I found government offices are full of these women. Minimum wage teenagers are 10 times faster at their job than any of these middle aged women working in all government offices. They're more concerned about where they're going for lunch than anything to do with their job.
The loneliness aspect of being a stay-at-home mother, I think, is also somewhat exacerbated by that cultural shift towards the career-first attitude. When stay-at-home moms were a lot more common, they would usually build bonds with other moms in their community (neighbors, religious communities, extended family - you know, the "it takes a village to raise a child" thing). But if your circle of friends mainly includes work colleagues, especially if you live in a big city, you really don't have access to those kinds of supportive relationships. And once the daily routine sets in, I imagine it can get tremendously lonely at times.
You have a solid point. I'm a SAHM mother of 3 with one on the way and I have personally experienced this among family and friends and finding groups that allow for my children to socialize and also build bonds with other women with a similar lifestyle. The loneliness and isolation, even more so after 2020, is very real. The last way to get any kind of support and interaction it seems is in the Church, but even that is waning depending on where you live.
Yes I noticed a huge difference between being a stay at home mother with my first child when my street was full of other stay at home mums, and my youngest child when I was the only one home in my street on weekdays.
Yes, there's actually sociological data about this as well, how the neighborhood used to be a huge resource outside of the family to support young women with children and those resources are almost completely gone. Now combined with the elderly (grandparents) are either too old (age of first baby shifted from somehow in the early 20s to over 30, hence the grandparents are older as well) and /or they live separately far away, it changes the picture of a woman becoming a mother completely. This is why midwifes have become so incredibly important, because they are basically having the knowledge and giving support to isolated first birth given women.. I am not saying that before everything was better but the situation has changed..
@@wyleecoyotee4252 Missed the point completely. It's not being a stay at home mom that causes loneliness, it's how society is now that causes loneliness. Working careers is lonely too because of the mindset of our culture. No one at work cares about anyone, only at a superficial level.
1:39:00 is the only conclusion I have been able to come to as well. I feel that my life would have been far easier and more enjoyable had the whole “men and women are the exact same” thing NOT been pounded into my head for the first 15 years of my life. Rather than teaching our natural differences, encouraging our natural tendencies, and diminishing our natural advantages they literally pushed women to replace the men in their lives while at the same time eliminating the actual value of women.
It is much easier to collectivize people with no attachments of family. Think about the character Black Widows training involving removing her uterus. This dehumanized her and her entire character arc throughout the films is her reclaiming her humanity until she becomes mother to the universe through her sacrifice for the soul stone.
> Feminists have been teaching women to BE men, and doing very well at inculcating masculine values in women. That this denigrates and ignores feminine values is ignored, except by women who don't do well at being men and wish they could be women instead.
I feel the opposite, my entire life I was told "women and girls are superior to men and boys", "women are smart, men are dumb". If I was taught that men and women are the same I wouldn't have hated myself for being born male most of my life...
It's not about being men and women being the exact same, it's about having rights. If you to want to be a handmaid and a traditional woman, I will fight your right to do so, But I will turn on you in a nanosecond if you start advocating women should lose rights like abortion bans. I don't care want to be baby making machines, I only care that child free women such as myself can continue to live our lives they way we want to free of oppression. Prior to 1970, women couldn't by their own homes or have credit cards.....women were trapped in abusive marriages because they were denied the ability to provide for themselves through adequate employment. Feminism is a reaction to that oppression. Imagine being a woman married to an abusive husband and you had no resources to leave. He would just beat you until you died. If you think this is about men and women being the same, you are naive. It's about your right to live free from oppression and oppressive laws.
Why do women always need to be happy? Imagine if a man goes into work one day and says "I am not happy". People would assume that something had gone wrong in his life that needed fixing. They might speculate what that might be, and how to fix it but they would not just assume that his wife was oppressing him and that the first thing he should do is walk out. The assumption that a women's happiness is a gift of her husband, and that the failure to gift it, is clearly malevolent, is wierd.
Totally agree 💯 men and women a responsible for their own happiness. And when you're emotionally mature enough u can share everything with someone else and get the benefits from that as well.
As a husband and father who went to work everyday while my wife raised the kids, I missed so many special events during the week that I look back with some regret. The grass is always greener and having a career is often not all it’s cracked up to be
YES. This is the fundamental lie being sold. Careers mean responsibility and you can’t do both. Men never have. Why would women? Unless their jobs are so unproductive that they aren’t missed?? 🤷♂️
We thought we could have both. 100% career, 100% mother. I talk to so many Moms in their late 30s-40s shocked by the fact that we can’t do both. Seems obvious now, but I sure believed it when I was younger. Just one of the untruths I had to unlearn when I became a mom. We wanted mens’ jobs but didn’t think of the negatives that come with that territory, like missing our families.
@@jennaphage Nothing oppresses women more than modern feminism. Modern feminism has BECOME the "systemic oppression"... to women. It's been that to men and children for about 50+ years... and, as a "2nd order effect" (the next link in the chain), it's hurt all of society. You mentioned having to give up your time with your children in order to pursue your career/job. Another thing that you weren't doing... that you were missing... was you and your children "binding" the neighborhood together... and neighborhoods became more dangerous as a result... help each other less, if at all... A child's first introduction to "society" (the concept, rules, etc) is the family, in the home. The 2nd is the neighborhood... or WAS the neighborhood... And then, the school.
I also missed a lot of my kids' 'growing up moments' because I had to work to pay the bills. But the fact that my wife could stay home and be there for them made it worthwhile. I can't imagine how sad I would feel if my kids' first steps or first words were witnessed only by some stranger in a daycare center.
@@sammygoodnight that's exactly what lot of fathers missing. When kids grow up you wish you had more time for them than for your employers. This trend changing because now women want to slave for bosses more than supporting husbands and families
As a woman who didn't get to finish high school for reasons outside of my control; therefore no university and some decades of just surviving, trying to scrape together the very basics of Maslow's 'bottom tier', I appreciate being able to learn from an obviously well educated, well rounded woman such as Mary. I will definitely be reading her book.
Oh great, another follower. Most women are followers. The difference between being a Feminist or not, is who the woman is a slave to... a woman or a man. That's it, the whole deal.
The greatest moment of my (male) life was not the actual birth of my first born (daughter) but seeing her with her mother when I walked into the maternity ward the next day. There was something timeless and transcendent about that mother/child union, I get what Mary was alluding to. I was filled with a sense of reverence for my wife, as a woman and a mother, and I understood at that moment the fulfilment that many women derive from bringing another life into the world.
There are a lot of people that don't. If feminism ever had any merit, it was to prevent those people from having kids, a goal towards which it has been partially successful.
When a woman has your child, they have paid you the best compliment you can possibly be paid. They have taken half your DNA - the very fabric of what you are - and turned it into a new human which they will die for, and dedicate their life to. When you are paid that compliment, the remainder of your life should be dedicated to serving and protecting her. Even if you separate from each other later - her happiness should be your goal, since she is better than the best babysitter you will ever have. And she is looking after your immortality. The whole thing transcends culture, religion and the law. The idea that a father could possibly be knowingly absent is a sick modern perversion.
Yeah, even now, years after my wife gave birth to our kids, if I ever see her holding a baby (someone else's), it's like a religious vision. It's like seeing the Madonna in a tortilla. There's a glittering halo to it that arrests your heart.
@@tonycatman That's a nice sentiment, but if you divorce in places like the US, she can take half of everything you have and make you pay child support, WHILE keeping you from EVER seeing your children again until they are adults. She can poison their minds against you, convince them you are a monster, and turn your "immortality" into a tragic curse all the while making you PAY to have her take so much meaning out of your life. Your sentiment is naïve to the actual world we live in now. Perhaps in another time it had merit, but now it's poetry that rings hollow all too often.
"If you want to control your fertility, there's always the option of not having sex." THANK YOU. This is what I think every time someone starts crying about possibly getting pregnant.
This is considered self repression. Being unable to express and act deep desires. There's a widespread 20th century leftist hypothesis that sexual repression is the primary cause of Nazism.
@@ms-jl6dl Agreed, feminists will always scream "my body, my choice." Here's an idea: It's your choice alone to not spread your legs to every man you come across.
@@oambitiousone7100 True, men and women share the blame. The crazy idea is that don't spread your legs every time you meet a person. It's not that hard.
Chris says something that really struck me as an older man watching a younger man speak to issues like this. He said, "finding out that 80% of women without children grieve the loss of a family that never was and have support groups to deal with it, really really sent shivers down my spine." Not exact but you get the gist of it. That in hindsight is when you know you are a mature and well grounded young man. You can listen to, read or see that something like that is real for women (and men) and viscerally feel something about it. If you can see it, read it, hear it and still not feel anything about it, you're just not there yet.
My heart breaks for women who were lied to their whole life and realized too late that they can never have children. As a father of two and another soon to arrive, there is no greater joy than having children and seeing my wife with them makes me smile every time.
I've heard Mary speak on this topic before and she possess both extremely sharp arguments combined with excellent oration to drive them home. I hope she continues speaking out and that people continue to listen.
Thank you Chris. I really appreciate the guests you bring onto your platform. As a 31 year old woman whose perspectives have shifted to be more conservative over the past few years, it's refreshing to hear women actually critique feminism and today's common narrative. I have few friends who see the value in monogamy and marriage, so discovering speakers like Mary & Louise Perry interests me. Hearing your viewpoints have been helpful as well, reminding me that there are emotionally stable, intellectually curious and driven men out there. Stay well ✨
Would you be willing to recind ALL of the rights and freedoms feminism provided you? Ones you take for granted? You wouldn't mind not being allowed a credit card, property ownership etc? You wouldn't mind it if raping and beating a wife became legal again?
My wife is a stay at home mom and is enjoying the recent birth of our 2nd son. She will never have the power career many women aspire to. But I suspect when my wife gets old she will be happier than the more affluent childless women. And for what it's worth, you don't need two incomes to live well. If you can agree to be frugal, one income will suffice.
Are you now interested in traditional monogamous relationships with clear gender roles now that you are old and used goods and can clearly see the end of your prime youthful female privilege?
@@twilightknight2333 LOL - thanks for the laugh! I'm actually a virgin waiting for marriage, and I don't judge others who have casual relations. Your actions (and reactions) are your choice, but your lifestyle does not have to be mine. Take good care.
I raised lmy 3 boys in the 70's. In those days most moms were stay at home.. it was wonderful. We formed play groups, and gathered everyday to discuss different issues esp could rearing. We took our kids on day trips. I never wanted anyone else to raise my kids.
I think it's the option to work, have a career, and have sexual freedom which were the goals of feminism in the period which is a goof prospect. You have the option to live life how you want. Third wave feminism seems intent on demonising the traditional lifestyle as if its promoting the oppression of women. Its strange that third wave has reversed its views on women's freedom...
If feminism has hurt men, then it's likely because certain groups of men protected women's ability to do so. At the end of the day, women usually can't hurt or punish men on their own without some kind of assistance. Generally, whatever actions women take that are detrimental to men are often supported and protected by other men.
Idk but feminism has set me free as a man. I can stay single and anytime anyone asks me why I just say marriage is oppressive to women and I don’t want to oppress women cuz I’m a feminist!
Drives me crazy that even she frames it as the Scouts "went coed". They didn't just go coed, they were beaten and harangued until they had to bend the knee. The fact that the related girl scouts also got mad about it, as if they were trying to horn in on their territory, is equally frustrating.
I'm fast approaching my 60's. I'm not sorry that I never had children - it probably had a lot to do with my parents giving over responsibility to me at age 9 for my siblings. I knew at an early age how difficult it was to take care of kids.... But I do wish I had heard some of this much sooner. I think that many women of my generation didn't realize the value of their sexuality.
Make sure you voice your opinion to other women who may be younger than you. The vast majority of them believe this crap and they won’t even allow themselves to hear an opposing opinion because they can’t imagine a world where they’re wrong. Especially if a man tried to tell them any of this? They start hurling insults like a child. I wish i was kidding but we really need some women and especially older women with more wisdom to wake these young girls up. They are literally ruining society. Divorce rates are skyrocketing and birth rates are plummeting. By the time i’m your age (40 yrs) there may not even be enough people to run the infrastructure, or grow all our food. It’s scary, and it’s all happening because women think their individual happiness comes before everything else.
I sat through a phone conversation between my sister in law and a colleague of hers, in the process of trying to recruit the next CEO of a charity promoting women’s opportunities in developing countries. They had a problem, the only applications for the role that they had received were from middle aged white men. The conclusion from their conversation was that they needed to reject the applicants because it wouldn’t be very fitting for a womens rights charity to be led by a white man. When the phone call ended, I reminded my sister in law of the Equality Act 2010 but she thought I was joking… is this progress??
Personally, i would have recorded the phone call and reported her to BBB or the authorities. Lord knows if the roles were reversed they would be outraged if a woman was rejected based on her gender. They would be posting “___ charity exposed for misogyny, men are trash” blah blah. So yea i would take all the action i could to make sure they feel the effects of “EQUALITY” 😅
Listened to this on Spotify and I had to come here to comment. Not because I have anything particularly profound to say, but just because Mary Harrington and this conversation are incredible and I had to tell you. I work in the hospitality industry, with a lot of teens and "kids" in their early 20's (I'm 35). I see al of this crap playing out in real life: Girls who are afraid to tell a guy NO for fear of being seen as a prude: Guys being lethargic: I've had to hear stories of girls wondering if they were raped if they were black out drunk and had turned the guy down many times before; Girls who say they don't want kids because they want a career and they want to travel; Guys who say they don't want kids in order to save The Enviroment; recently a transgender kid started working here (divorced parents, leftwing mother, brother with a load of mental health problems so they never got any attention, and, probably not unimportantly: unnattractive looking when he was a girl.); guys (20 year old boys) saying they'll never mary because "Women will take you for everything you've got."(They're BOYS!); Teen girls who have slept with more men than she remembers. It's horrifying. And you can tell them and thell them over and over again, try to explain population collapse, try to tell them how empty life is without a family, try to tell them the enviroment will have to be saved by China and India and Pakistan because The Netherlands' effect is negligible on a global scale. Most of these kids have no plans for the future other than "I want to be rich and have a good job." because they think (perhaps rightly judging by Mary's comments on the rise of transhumanism ) that whealth will be the only thing that can protect them from future misery. I wish I had a magic wand that could save them all from all the brainwashing society has put them through.
An idea popped into my head upon listening to the part about modern women's fear of being pregnant and of labor/delivery. The fear towards one's own body is not of "being weakened" by pregnancy but of not having enough strength to endure the unknown. And that is in an unprecedented time of safety around childbirth. Setting aside economic concerns, I heard this common observation from women around me who had not had children. They commented on my bravery in the same way as when I went on vacation alone. I felt fear as they did but I chose to believe I could handle what came my way. It's a risk aversion scale and I fell on the riskier side which was perceived as brave. Somehow, I think it relates to our victimhood culture. Being pregnant and giving birth requires strength and bravery that is not consistent with being a victim. That's just an idea, though, based on my experience.
Feminism is a form of Marxism, of Leftism. It needs Lies & Ignorance to exist and Hatred and Shame in order to grow. Congratulations for not falling into their Fear based traps. If I had to guess, I'd guess that you are un-jabbed as well. CoV was the master-class of Ignorance and Fear mongering. I'm happy to report that I remain a non-feminism and I am unjabbed.
I think you have a point about the way victimhood culture permeates this. There are extremely feminist women who can vary from being Anti-Natalist altogether, to those who have terminated their pregnancies and then use that as a form of virtue signaling/perpetuating victimhood, or those who couldn't have more children that they wanted and again, it becomes a virtue signal or way to be seen as a victim and garner tons of pity. I've seen this in my personal experience with women in my family/friend groups.
@@captnhuffy Thanks for the reply. I got vaccinated since I was in healthcare and vaccinations have always been required in my field but from the beginning I said, "As long as it's not mandatory, I'd think of it as a positive step. As long as we maintain freedom of choice." Even though that turned out to be a false hope, I stayed with the promise of a better outcome for all for 2 boosters but finally fought against the ease of going with the flow when the evidence became apparent. I have never believed that ALL vaccinations work miracles and each one must be evaluated for efficacy. I really hate the term "anti-Vaxxer", as if all people who choose not to have a particular vaccine (like the annual flu vax) are against all forms of vaccine. I'm not ignorant, I'm practical. If it demonstrates that it works, great. If not, stop brow-beating.
@@raymyoverlord8615 Very well said. that's me too. Not anti-vax .. but I'm not gunna be a guinea pig either. I was planning on waiting til the second winter to get jabbed. Then 2nd winter came and I thought: let the old folks at risk have my jab. Then after winter I thought: my risk is so low and MAYBE there is just as great of risk in the jab as in the virus itself. And now we know better. So, you can see I wasnt anti-vax, but distrusted the messages we were gettting. I have always been anti-big-brother Gov, as well as not trusting the MSM. I'm happy I'm unjabbed, and have natural immunity from the first strain.
Totally agree with you. Both men and women are weak today and lack courage. This is because we’ve raised children indoors, not in nature and not with common sense and real life experience.
Agree, and she says it herself, she did all the damage she could as a card-carrying feminist, and only lately has come round to basic reality, and would now very much like it if we could carry her and fix society for her, same as ever. But the titanic has already hit the iceberg, there is no saving culture at this point, the only thing left is to survive the crossing to the next cultural era. Which probably will be the transhumanist one, which, although some people will mess themselves up in it due mainly to having a bad case of the modern mind-virus, will actually just be good for the rest of us.
I love your questioning technique and interview comfort- truly inspiring- helps me to engage with such academic discussion and not feel too out of my depth
"Current feminism is about female freedom." Translation: Current feminism is about women trying to figure how to remove all personal responsibility/accountability. In other words: no boundaries and zero consequences.
I remember my wife telling one of her daughters, "just because you can do anything you want doesn't mean you can do anything you want." The unspoken bit at the end was "without consequences or responsibility."
"If you need other people you're failed" am someone who pride himself not needing people but this quotes got me thinking. Thanks Chris for another great interview
Chris, thank you (again) SO MUCH for just giving your guests space to talk through their ideas and express their thoughts fully. This is your superpower, it's why I keep listening to your show over others. I did not mind at all Mary's tendency to occasionally pause for a moment to grasp for the right words. I do this myself a lot, and while it's often seen as a weakness in this frantic breathless world we live in now, I see it as a signal that there is real thinking going on behind those words.
This woman is very logical. As a scientist, I find this quality to be highly attractive. I am married to a woman who is also very logical. Radical feminism cannot stand up to rational arguments. The goal of this movement is the creation of a matriarchy that dominates men and confers even more privilege on women.
Also, we women do HAVE CYCLES what our grandmother's wanted, we dont. It would also help a bit, if women start wearing dresses/skirts again At a decent length We have better fabrics these days. It seemed, after 1990s, women seemed to have stopped wearing them
@@kathleenking47 Having cycles is, in my experience, equivalent with going through an emotional and irrational rollercoaster of moods and tempers every friggin 28 days that is, from a man's perspective, with rational logic almost unfathomable. I had to work and live (offshore sailing) with psychopaths, drug addicts, drinkers, depressed, bipolar and normal people. Not one man ever showed a comparable variety of personalities as the women I took on board did show on a regular basis already without any of the above mentioned additional issues. How anybody in their right mind can even think about getting away with omitting *_that_* when women's place in society is discussed is absolutely beyond me, while it is in fact mainstream to try and omit it.
@@manfredschmalbach9023 yup, but if you point out how irrational and emotional women can get, especially having to do with their “cycle”, you’re called a misogynist. It’s expected since, after all, they’re far more irrational and emotional but the problem is we allow them to dominate pop culture and “social norms” anyway. This is going to be controversial, but that is the EXACT reason why women throughout history had less rights than men. They are generally easier to control and it’s easier to insert ideas into their head. Every man with a brain has noticed this and therefore in the past they weren’t trusted to make their own informed decisions about society and politics etc. I wonder why they think “women and children” is a thing and “men and children” is not. Women are closer to children than men. Children THINK they know everything… they are absolutely convinced of it but YOU as a parent know better. This, in my opinion, is the same kind of relationship men have with women. They think they understand things fully and they think they have society and history all figured out. They do not. Also, let me make it clear that I don’t mean to generalize. Obviously, as we can see from the video, there are women that do think critically about things and that do have rational explanations and thoughts. All i’m saying is that women tend to fall into mind traps more than men do. Even Mary took 28 years to realize that her mindset was wrong and misguided! I love women and I don’t believe in “oppressing” them, but I do believe in protecting them from themselves. If we didn’t get rid of that aspect of society, we wouldn’t be having the problems we’re having now. Yes some good has come from feminism but we don’t know where this ends and how bad it gets. Society used to be structured to keep things running smoothly and society intact, now that’s all falling apart thanks to women. That’s why i’m very excited we’re finding more and more women who are waking up to those facts and speaking out against this madness. If men try to tell women anything we’re “enforcing the patriarchy” or whatever buzzword they like to use, but if women do it maybe just maybe they’ll be more open to listening. Probably not though because they think they already know everything and Mart is part of the patriarchy. 🤦♂️🤦♂️
@@tylermassaro4266 As becoming the miso-thingy and "pushing patri ... You know, the thing" when mentioning the differences between men and women and the resulting problems in entities of all scales getting steered by women, we men are, in the gynocentric west at least, doomed to let things blow up on their own until a majority of women starts recognizing their fault when it comes to pushing the terroristic, society-destroying ideology of femanosm. That's the tragic in all that gender-war making life between feminists a chore, to say the least: We might love women, but we have to let them race the whole thing to the cliff and beyond, over it, and crash it before we can do anything to bring things back on track. Living alone, (I became a singlehander after having learned about people in general and women in particular the hard way) not playing their game, not dating, not taking any part in any of their ruinous insanities and megalomaniae but doing our own thing, going our own way is the only thing we can do. I am glad MGTOW is growing so fast and women are, obviously, starting to grasp what they did to themselves and that way to all of human kind, but it still is far from any tipping point in terms of women actually ending the terrorism femanosm basically is.
Perhaps Trans act as woman's advocates, like a big, more logical, sister, in order to dominate "mans world". Even as they get dominated by a man with a wig on. 🧏♀️
Yes, we should take things into our own hands and stop having sex with one of you unless you marry one of us. The most attractive women to men are 25 or younger when we are most fertile, but before our brains are fully developed. So it is critical that parents teach their girls this truth and imprint it in their minds so that the young, attractive, barely adult women know the power they have over men in courting practices when they do not have sex with them. Unfortunately, because of casual sex culture, women usually find this out through experience. This commonly leads to women despising men and even the entire concept of family. And also, casual sex culture is at a great disadvantage to less attractive men. The highly attractive men aren't being taken out of the market. Therfore, women chase the attractive man. That same man leaves her and another woman takes her place for him to leave her as well. If these attractive men were getting married (in order to get sex), they would be out of the market and women would look elsewhere to less attractive men.
@@priapulidaoooh bad call. Fundamentally, I think there's certain blind spots she'll never over come because of being a lesbian. She's never had to take the pill or argue with a bf about condoms not feeling pleasurable for him. Arguing over gender stereotyped domestic work. Etc. Etc. She's gotten s lot wrong to the point I don't recommend her anymore.
@@sarahharris2729 I don't agree with everything she says as well but tbh considering the breadth and depth of her work these points sound marginal to the point of being bad-faith, petty or even ridiculous.
@@priapulida oh sorry😰😰, I was thinking of Julie Bindel!!! Camille has some of that too, but I agree about the over all breadth of Cam's work yes. Her recent collabs with JP a few years ago was interesting too. I personally do not gravitate towards lesbian writers in peace making with the male sex, though they make very good analysts and deconstructions.
@@wyleecoyotee4252 then self deletion is the only option because misery is guaranteed. Animals aren’t happy. They just want to survive. You are no different.
@@moziburullah9827 It absolutely can, the point is that happiness should not be the main goal. Happiness is a pleasant side effect that should be enjoyed in the moment.
@@wyleecoyotee4252 Chasing happiness is why you've never found any. Happiness can not be attained in that matter. It's a constatnly moving target. This is one of the core spiritual and psychological misunderstandings of this era, which is ironically causing so much misery. Everyone chases the unicorn of happiness, only to not get it, then gets depressed and has to take head pills. It's classic 'modern woman'.
It is so fantastic to hear such a true female perspective. Mary is someone who writes about the female experience in a way I fully relate to. In a world where women are supposed to be so emancipated, it feels like their concerns come lower and lower in the media, in society and in the economic realm. This extends to men too. The perspectives of the two genders have been replaced by a faux sexless truth for all which suits nobody. Will be buying her book!
FINALLY a palatable historical description of why feminism came about and was needed at the time. Good lord it's so refreshing to hear a woman say "feminism came because of the washing machine, free time and divorce laws back then" and not because yeaaaaah girl power yeaaahh progresssss, all these self-evident parroted dogmas which no one really knows why they're here...
I am absolutely blown away by how good of a conversation this is. Very few people say things that meaningfully contribute to worn out debates and Mary Harrington manages to make me think of new nuance about about a given point of argument with every other sentence. I didn't think her appearance again on this podcast could possibly outdo the last but this absolutely does that. Chris' genuine curiosity and willingness to immediately stop talking when Mary has further nuance to clarify is both impressive and endearing. Chris if you are reading this, bravo man. Great work. Same to you Mary, though I suspect the odds of you reading this are even less likely.
Sadly many people have turned themselves into a mix of branding, personality checklists, diagnoses, and catchphrases that its hard to get to know anyone. But most people have no personality or identity.
It's easier to change a job than it is to change a husband when he's the one that feeds you. So yes, having a job gives you more freedom than relying on someone else for your livelihood.
I've learnt about my own body, the side effects if the pill and the natural cycle mainly in my secondary school, Catholic school for girls run by Ursuline nuns, some 35 years ago. It's so good to hear people coming to their senses about it although it has taken soo long.
Unfortunately our daughters will not get that type of moral and health education from the Ursulines in Ireland today. They switch on Home & Away and the amoral TV soaps, perform religious rituals like musicals, have no sense of the sacred or comprehension of the challenges and assault on young girls and women, but a great obsequiousness for money and social class.
@@marskinlan2034 really? Very sad to hear that. They still stand strong in my old school, in Poland. Very strong headed and hard working women. That was my experience... no nonsense
Chris, I’ve been following you on this journey for months. This guest has identified the root cause perfectly. The transition from an agrarian society in villages to the industrial and city centered happens from 1865 - 1900. Our model for dating and mating did not evolve during that time and remained patriarchy centered. Women did not get to participate in the decision making process nor benefit from the upswings. You also have the onset of photography and newspapers which is the beginning of ‘social media’ if you will… which acts as a giant mirror by which women are able to examine their opportunities as compared to others, as they realize they do not like their options of 0. Add to that they are being told they do not get a ‘reroll’ to better their choices as men do, and you find yourself at 1900 first wave feminism : an angry group of women who hate their mating options of men who are burnt out, under educated, broke boozers and bruisers, with no shot at upward mobility (being allowed a second chance to chance to mate up) … I almost can’t blame them. The question now is, what to do about it all?
You made it sound very good but you leave out a lot of key points. In those times, most men didn’t even have “upward mobility” or “opportunities”… the top 5-10% of men did. Women don’t see the other men because those aren’t the ones they want so they’re invisible. Women don’t consider them at all they just get mad because they don’t have the same opportunities as a 1%er. It’s ridiculous. You left out a lot more but, honestly, i’m not interested in correcting you. Everyone just wants to make excuses for why this happened and act like women are right about everything. They’re not. Hopefully we’re gonna remind them of that within the next few decades. The aggressiveness in which they’ve pushed feminist ideals and don’t know when enough is enough is the exact reason women didn’t have rights. Men knew that women who had power would take it too far and literally destroy society, which is exactly what’s happening right now. Birth rate falling, divorce rate rising, USA standing as a world power falling. This is women’s doing and the feminists are proud of it. Maybe men need to start marching to take women’s rights again since they don’t know how to simply be productive members of society that are responsible foe their own actions. They just want to blame everything on men like a child who gets caught doing something wrong. Craziness
@@SamStone1964 i used to think like that too but now idk if i’m so sure. It’d be great to all work together but women seem so dead set on making sure that doesn’t happen. I have no sympathy for whatever happens to them. If i’m not mistaken, 50% of women will be single and childless for the rest of their life by 2030. They can do all that rah rah i’m independent, i know everything, men suck and anything they tell me must be oppressive, but once they’re 45 and they have nobody who really cares about them they’re gonna be crying and trying to warn other women to “not make the same mistake”. I can’t wait honestly, it’s exactly what they get. They think they have it all figured out but eventually every single one of them is gonna figure out they were fed fantasy, fairy tale BS and they fell for it like a dog looking for the ball you never threw. You can tell who the smart ones are by what they believe and how much liberal propaganda they’ll accept. All i know is I’m gonna be investing my money into things like cat toys, boxed wine and vibrators. That’s what Morgan Stanley is recommending to investors because of the vast amount of women who are gonna be left single 😂😂. The time for “we’re in this together” has sailed, they can keep their smug little arrogance over there and deal with the consequences. There’s no point in trying to help them because they’ve all just been indoctrinated into hating men, and simultaneously whoring around. I wish em’ luck, but i’m sure they’ll just go on anti-depressants thinking they did nothing wrong and it’s all men’s fault 🤦♂️
When a feminist realizes there is a difference in men and women... Heck the ability to identify that a women even exists makes me smile. Women of the year are now (biological) men, Beauty pageants winners are men, sports winners are men, Woman of Courage award is a man, men can now have children etc. The determination that all things are the fault of a men makes me shake my head. My emotions become my truth and words are violent concepts are the mantra. Choice, unless you want to be a stay at home mother or pro life. Hypocrisy is accepted.
It doesn't matter. A woman will never ever admit to being wrong. The whole situation is laughably wrong and it's evident, however an ardent feminist would rather draw us all down into their own dark world where they are actually right, rather than just admitting that they're wrong.
Really interesting! So is the goal of bringing more men into female spheres/identities so they will then become wonderful and perfect like women are? (Sarcasm) Is it to cause chaos in the world because of polarization (like class warfare, but gender warfare)? Or is it to continue the culture of death through sterilization and lower birth rates, abortion is no longer enough?
Yes, let's focus on how effeminism is no longer helping women, rather that focusing on how it either perpetuated or created all of the current deficiencies in fundamental male human rights. 🙄 Here's a basic list of what Chris has avoided talking about (these are negative rights, not positive rights like education, work, and welfare which males are also lacking equality in): Right to Life (Bodily/Sexual Integrity) - non-consensual circumcision - forced military conscription - no right to domestic self-defense against wmn Criminal/Civil Courts - Presumed guilt, double jeopardy, and accuser anonymity for college and workplace sxl harassment/assault allegations. - Privacy/anonymity for accuser, publicity for accused; no punishment for accuser if proven to be false. - Little/no protection from physical violence, sxl assault, or grape by a wmn. - Automatically guilty w/no conviction, evidence, or charges required for DV accusations (Duluth model). - Extreme gendered gaps in rates of arrest, prosecution, conviction, incarceration, and registration. - Extreme gendered gaps in lengths of incarceration and registration. Family/Domestic Courts No reproductive rights: - pregnancy concealment (man is unaware he conceived) - pregnancy entrapment (fraudulent conception) - paternity deception (illegitimate conception) No parental rights: - no right to a financial abortion - no legal say in physical abortion - no legal say in adoption - extreme child custody gap No property rights: - paternity fraud - extortionate child support - extortionate spousal support (alimony/palimony) - immediate, forced, and permanent eviction of man w/total property transfer to wmn after DV accusations (via protracted restraining orders).
This is why men will continue to drop out in large numbers. The system will never change, so men will just continue to not feed it their labor, wealth, time, or anything else if they can avoid it. Men will go minimalist, and that will leave less for the taxman and corporate overlords to take. The real reason gaming scares the elite is because gaming is a much cheaper hobby than most typical male hobbies. Therefore, men who lived for those other hobbies were more productive for the system that hates them. There were always men who dropped out, they often did so and went golfing, fishing, hunting, and riding loud motorcycles.
Under English Common law for over 500 years, the reason a woman takes her husbands surname is because she is his next of kin legally, the first heir of his entire estate. That is never acknowledged by most modern people. ** edit, women were not first heir, it was her children. this being said for some 300 years 15th-18th century just over 25% of estates and assets passed on in inheritance were received by women.
@@hunterbidensaidslesion1356 One of many, but a major legal provision for property rights that has long existed and is still reflected in todays family court system.
That doesn't make any sense. Women couldn't own property, even if her husband died. She always had to have a guardian to manage it for her. Women took the man's name because of coverture. Wives were chattel and made invisible by law under their husbands.
It seems to me that things have improved for women who don't want children, and worse for those that do. Almost impossible for women these days to stay home to raise children unless their husbands are high earners. Also, society doesn't reward women for staying home...they're looked down upon for not financially contributing to the household, social security benefits and future job opportunities are negatively affected. If women have children and also work outside the home, childcare costs and the toll it takes on family members and marriages (due to stress caused by the double duty) is a major contributor to poor mental health and divorce.
It’s deliberate part of the depopulation movement. Kids are not being taught reality. So as they get deliberately mixed up by teachers part of the alphabet community. All this stuff is caused by living too comfortably. All our minor issues get amplified. And our real problems get pushed to absurd difficulty.
Grim, feminism isn’t just about depopulation, it’s predominantly about the destruction of the nuclear family, and replacing patriarchy with matriarchy. This is also called cultural Marxism.
“We should leave men alone and allow them to form their own spaces” I like your points, there are more to add imo. However who said you get to allow men to form spaces? I don’t recall giving up my authority to any woman.
Look around, they’ve already taken it. SJW feminists from the radical left are controlling politics and the way institutions work. You were probably being sarcastic but just sayin’ lol
You know… feminists complaining that men don’t allow them to join their hobbies and clubs for fear of being left out. There was a whole thing about it. That’s what the journalists accused the gamers in GamerGate of doing.
Even as a man, I can understand what she's saying about birth control. I started taking finasteride this Monday to help with hair loss, and I had to stop taking it by Thursday because it was giving me noticeable side effects after only a few days. I couldn't even go a week on a drug that significantly affected my hormones; I can scarcely imagine what the pill must do to women.
I was going to try that when I was 23 and first starting to loose my hair, but after being told it "could" make me infertile, I said fuck that and would rather just go bald. Didnt even know it could fuck up my hormones.
@@007kingifrit No, this was before Keeps was a thing. It was the older drug they had that wasnt Rogain. Either way, Once I heard it may make me infertile, I decided going and being bald is far preferable and less shameful. Ive trained myself to not look at my head from the eyes up. and I gauge whether its time for a hair cut based on if I can get a good fistful of my hair. I honestly hate it so much, but I'll take balding any day over possibly going infertile or having my hormones fucked up. I'm already horny as hell to the point it doesnt even register anymore. I dont need to have hormone instability and live with that mess.
I can tell you, my period stopped functioning at 28 for about 5 years. Not 100percent it was definitely the pill but otherwise I am healthy so I'm guessing it was related, the only other thing that might have contributed could have been the HPV vaccine. Thankfully it came back at 33 and I had my son around then. But it was 5 long years not really knowing what was going on. I am since rather vocal about the dangers of hormone affecting medication.
Chris, you are fast becoming one of my favourite podcast hosts. :) How you interact with in depth knowledge/humour/experience and reasoning … by listening as they get time to speak, explaining their viewpoints is a much like a work of art. A Masterclass in productive dialogue. Well done my friend. Lex Fridman is brilliant interviewer, as he hosts more guests of varying sides of debates. I would love to see you interview brilliant liberals or progressives to see what those interactions would look like. Maybe these are uncomfortable with long form discussions on your show or perhaps your audience wouldn’t be interested in hearing them if they did. From my perspective its seems like the only thing holding you back from becoming globally influential for all people to tune in and learn. Thanks for all your hard work. Take care , Jeremy
Funny how they always get more reasonable after they become undesirable. It's always a pathetic attempt to save face to hook a simp before their remaining years are spent with cats in a dingy apartment. Get a brain BEFORE you're a liability, and I might give you some credit. "Logical" ice queens are pathetic.
Oh man who would've thought following an angry repressed lesbian who wanted the death of the family and a marxist world would make everyone miserable, especially women? Feminism was never meant to "help" women. We're pretty close to Simone De Beauvoir's world. Hope you liked the end result.
Simone's writings are actually frightening. I've read them. And much of the fembots these days STILL quote her insane ramblings. No surprise why we're here.
@@LordHerek She wrote an influential book 'The Second Sex'. It's free online. It's pretty scary stuff. Clearly, modern day feminism rips pages out of her book. And she ripped pages out of Karl Marx. It's all in there.
@@LordHerek It's other name is The Feminist Bible to add onto what James said. He kind of undersold its influence. Lots of false talking points came out of it.
I appreciate feminism. I got to enjoy my teens and 20s without tying myself to marriage like men had to do in generation past. Now in my early 30s and the wildest oats have been sewn and I'm looking at maybe starting a family. I hear the Philippines is nice.
Blaming abortion and birth control for out-of-wedlock births is nonsense. They were illegal in Latin America and out-of-wedlock births exploded to levels not seen anywhere else. Because they didn't traffick girls into marriages as early as possible like they do in patriarchal cultures. Latin America was largely matrilineal until colonization so they retained sororal alliances and men still had an expectation they weren't responsible for children they fathered.
What a fantastic talk and I so admire Chris as an interviewer. But the comments section is a bit scary. I hope that some people really paid attention and absorbed a few very important points: 1) feminism is a response to industrialization, which precipitated a loss of agency among working women - “it was justified” 2) fixing the problem does not include a walking back of all the gains women have achieved- “there is no going back” 3) Harrington is one of many feminists who treat feminism as emerging in response to a rapidly changing world. If you watched this and pumped your fist in the air because you heard a woman say that feminism got it wrong, please note that social change is not the linear process we are taught it school. Listen with compassion. It is not wrong to want to be free.
Either it never did, or it still is, but just not perception people were deceived with. (Depending on how you want to look at that, and word it.) """ Feminism: The control and domination of other [lesser] women. (The hatred of men/males ["misandry"] is merely an enticement. -- Feminism is in of itself the pinnacle of "misogyny." """
@@Cpruett No... not the most affected... just the most recent... since it hit men and children back in the 70's... at least. That doesn't change the fact that modern feminism DOES oppress most women, and is, by far, the largest single and most dangerous enemy that women have. THINK about it... Do you really think that men (in general/on average) are "out to get" women? Are children? The law? The courts? On the other hand... Who tells women that they OUGHT TO BE AFRAID (fear-mongering) of all men? Who tells women to be afraid of a certain "culture" on campuses... more fear-mongering? Who tells women that there's this huge wage gap (which is a lie, and has been for a long time)? Who tells women there's this glass ceiling? Who tells women that there's this evil enemy out to get them, called "The Patriarchy"? Who is pushing to let biological men compete in women's sports, go into their showers and locker rooms, take away their athletic scholarships... and trying to "cancel" J K Rowling (that was a hint)? Modern feminism really IS the "systemic oppression"... of most women, as well as men. I'm a man myself. I'm tired of being blamed for crap I never did, never had a part in, including crap that was more than 100 years before I was even born. IMO, men can't/won't stop this crap... only women can do it. Thus, the only way to stop this is to point it out to women so that they and their army of simps can change it.
The idea that women were horribly oppressed throughout the ages, even to the point of calling it chattel slavery, is ridiculous. Marriage was always designed to protect women. It might not always have been a walk in the park, but you can say the same about men. Struggling is a HUMAN condition.
I think the discussion at around 1:28:00 about men losing something when there are no male only social spaces when growing up was interesting. I was a member of the Boys' Brigade when I was younger. Its organisation clearly owed a lot to the military. Discipline was a significant aspect of its ethos. Obviously there were adults around but a lot of the actual enforcement was done by the boys. They were aged 12-17. The older boys would be corporals and sergeants. The boys were organised into squads. The squads competed against each other in many aspects of the activities. There was an inspection at the start of the evening, and if you were one of the younger boys , your sergeant or corporal would quickly check to ensure your kit and uniform was properly done and you would not lose his squad marks. This kind of socialization among peers, learning to fit in, to do what was expected of you, to break rules but understand that there were consequences for doing so, to put yourself out for the benefit of others was an important part of my youth. It is not just your parents and other adults forming you, it is a much wider group
Yup, i’m 21 y/o but even i didn’t get to experience any of this. I was raised mostly by my mom and saw my dad in the summers. I feel like i missed a key part of development and i’ve even strongly considered joining the military just so i can learn discipline and some skills. Man skills if you will. It’s a terrible disservice being done to young boys just to pander and cater to women’s feelings. This is why women used to have less rights than men, men knew that women and power don’t go together. They’ll destroy everything and every space under the guise of “compassion” and “empathy” when reality it’s immense social pressure and, ultimately, force. Not saying we should go back but i get where they were coming from now. Women don’t know when enough is enough they want it all to be their way and their way only. Toxic femininity is a good word for it
Boy Scouts was a big part of my childhood. From 8-15. Learned to smoke cigarettes at scout camp😂😂. Honestly tho. Boys need good men around to become good men. I was given that and I'm thankful.
Most happy marriages involve women who care about their husbands, and their husbands love them deeply because of it. In other words, it’s not about competition or division of power.
I know it’s a lovely feeling to be loved and also to love… but are you saying the primary reason men love women is because… the women love them? That would imply that they don’t love the women in and of themselves, only that they love being loved
I think it's more like marriage is happy because both parties have respect for each other. Love is wishy-washy but self-fulfilling if the relationship is overall positive. People fall out of love as soon as the relationship becomes stressed, ie financially, romantically, faithfully and ultimately when the respect for each other is lost the love has evaporated and it becomes rather unlikely that the marriage can be recovered. Not disagreeing with you in that caring for each other is really just a component within having respect for each other. There is simply more to it.
@@monty5961 minimizing the amount of destruction to society would be the “better” option. He did not say best or perfect, he said better. Yall always have a problem with something
This discussion around the Psycho-Social aspects of the current male/female dynamic and concurrent intersection with the mating crisis ignores the basic economic and time factors that impede young people from EVER creating their own family. People are working longer and longer for relatively less money. Many people are getting to their 40s before they feel financially secure enough to think about starting a family, by which stage they are physically unable to conceive or emotionally unprepared for even creating a fruitful relationship. The discussion looked like 2 well off people talking about issues that are only relevant to a small section of society.
Absolutely. Some conservatives mourn the lack of 1950s birth rates, but there are some conditions that the economics don't support. Back then: 1. People could graduate HS, get a job, and ascend the corporate ladder by being a good worker. Now people get stuck at the bottom, or maybe they can rise if they get some bullshit degree that costs $30,000. 2. A house was about 5 years pay. They were made as places to live, not as devices for investment firms to manipulate. Don't try to convince conservatives to tell investment firms to act, that would be a hard socialist act and make the USA go the way of the reds! 3. Immigration wasn't as rapid, so it didn't affect supply and demand for labor and homes as much. That's great for laborers, but not shareholders, robber barons, and bankers. Also, it didn't enable businesses to go and have a bunch of scab laborers to break unions. It's easy for conservatives to complain about "Declining Judeo-Christian morals" but don't dare say anything else that enabled the baby boom.
Nearly all of our ancestors had it far worse and managed to have kids. The post WW2 years were an exceptional blip in human history mostly caused by the dumb luck of US geopolitical positioning. The US boom is largely due to it being the only country and industrial base not completely devastated by WW2 & it enforcing a global trade order ever since. That advantage has steadily slipped away, and unless the world goes to war again, it isn't likely to come back. We may be reverting to the mean. Which is a world in which we must make do with less, and older norms are likely to make a come back.
The welfare state invalidates monetary hesistance in regard to children. Even if the welfare state didn’t exist, people have kids all the time without ever having a plan, and making it work somehow, single parent or double.
1:03:33. She talks about women being given the pill at 15 and were on it for a decade, having been told it’s good for you, and there they were without sex drive, skewing their hormonal system, and packing on weight, and screwing with the hormones in their brains, bringing on depression. “What have you done to me?” is what, she said, women are asking after they get OFF the pill having been on it since TEEN years. OMG. I had no idea this was all happening.
It’s a very real issue that is not fashionable to discuss. A very significant number of Women are messed up by the pill. It doesn’t matter if it’s only 1-5%, when every single person in a particular population gets the treatment then that’s a huge number. It isn’t discussed just like abortion stats because the morality of choice is quite ugly.
If sex is a commodity like the feminists want then why aren't we allowed to put things like sexual favors into employment contracts? If sex work is totally fine why wouldn't it be okay to include sex as part of the duties an employee must engage in?
That would require them to stand on principle, leftist belief systems like feminism don't do that. They pick and choose if something is applicable based on whether it's beneficial or not for the scenario at play.
I've learned a lot about life and work both before and after having a child. You can work for people who don't care anything about you (you are fully replaceable), or you can work for people who love and appreciate you (you are irreplaceable). Or you can do both. But life is far more meaningful when you work to make life better for people who truly care about you.
A really frustrating aspect of this video is how she correctly identifies all these problems that those on the left have caused from choices they made, that people on the right said they shouldn't do because it would cause problems and disrupt things, yet she still thinks "My inner lefty worries about humans being comodified into body parts for sale etc etc." as if that's something the right isn't also worried about. It's incredibly frustrating that even people with this much awareness of our modern problems STILL can't let go of being partisan and denying their opponents had any point at all.
I appreciate Ms. Harrington doing the hard work of researching historic realities between the sexes & speaking to liberal/left leaning individuals. One aspect that I disagree with is her wholesale rejection of hormonal BC. She noted that from the onset Feminism was a product of middle/upper class women who sought additional cultural/legal/etc. changes b/c they had the leisure time that poor/working class women didn't. It also resulted in policies that favored the well off while destabilizing the lower classes. It seems that Ms. Harrington has the same problem as prior middle/upper class women did when advocating for removing hormonal BC. Non hormonal BC methods like condoms & diaphragms exited prior to hormonal BC yet they were not widely adopted. Not all women particularly those who in the lower end of the econ spectrum have full autonomy/power in forcing a partner/spouse to use alternate BC methods. By removing hormonal BC, disadvantaged women will have unplanned/unwanted pregnancies. It appears as if Hormonal BC is being demoinzed as all encompassing evil against women & the major cause of women's woes. I find this discourse one sided ignoring that the physical/emotional/etc ills of any one human individual is likely multivariate.
Actually, no. You have your basic freedom because men provide it. Of that wasn't the case you wouldn't have had to fight for it. The roles would be reversed.
I have never felt downtrodden & oppressed by being a home-based wife & mother. I have felt free to organise my own time. Going into work & working for a boss doing generally boring work, just doesn't sound appealing. You may wonder about money. We certainly had a lot less of it but adjusted our life to that. We had few holidays, no luxuries etc but then, none of that matters. I have felt productive by being a maker.
Uh huh. Very feminine name there Marty. I'm a single mom working. I make about 30k a year and yet still take my son on vacations and I own my own home I decorate very nicely and 3 day weekends. I don't have to worry about being humiliated when aqn I depend on hits his midlife crisis and cheats on me like so many other women I've known
@@Opal5674 We have 4 children so perhaps that makes a difference. My husband & I are still togther too. We have grand children & great grand children. I often wonder how career women cope with retirement...
@@marty9011 Ah. well you are an elder. The truth is there are absolutely not enough good reliable men around for every woman and everyone isn't guaranteed to have healthy children who will be able to take care of themselves so I work to give my son a leg up in this world so he doesn't have to do everything from ground uo and struggle. My son will have a house I will be able to give him because he has autism and I'm not sure if he will be able to work. People who have a ton of kids and don't have hardly any money set their kids up for a rough time.
Something my grandmother used to say to me often, "men might be the head of the house hold, but the woman is the neck and she can turn that head, any way she wants." This has stuck with me and while many might read manipulation into this, I always read this as women, having a quiet power that was worth far more than modern day society gives us credit for. You don't need a loud voice when you have influence. We've lost that influence in return for a very loud voice and I am not particularly fond of loud noises.
The radical changes on all fronts a human goes through in their 20's may be often understated. We sort of view them as full regular adults but my most radical transitions happened within that age. I had these deep convictions that were blown away by my late 20's and now I'd not come close to hold the same beliefs I did then now at 36. For me it was wise to not go all in about relaying my beliefs then because they didn't feel complete. I didn't start having real grounded views that I could fill out and discuss fully and intelligently until my late 20s. We all have this "group identity" phase then this "individuation phase" where we get a little more isolated and see the "what" of us instead of the "who" and that really fill us out. We come out the other end more full people. Edit - I like this guest btw the way she speaks with this sure fluidity signals to me she's on the creative cutting edge of the subjects she's talking about navigating new ground as she goes. I had great parents and my relationship with women has always been solid. I've always viewed women as people for whom some of them evoke romantic sparks. When I was young this was more of this dream like state. The girl I liked existed as this almost mystical creature. Now it's the general way a woman exists and the way our personalities and chemistry does or doesn't line up. To me women have always been fellow humans who are a bit more special. I've always protected the women I affiliate with without diminishing their sense of agency. Life rarely throws me situations where I truly have to spring into action in a situation that heavily favors a man acting instead of a woman. In my world men and women are equal and the roles we take on either naturally happen or we have a chat of it. Cheers great vid.
i was the primary care taker raising my daughter and it was the hardest thing i've ever done. i've run marathons, been in the military, and divorced twice. difficulty is subjective. if being the primary care taker of a child was easy for this woman, she must have had a lots of money and people helping her.
Especially since Camille Paglia hates uppper middle class feminists 'with their soft little voices and their self esteem issues' and their inablity to say no. Would be hilarious.
I'm from the same political background and have also come to question Progress as a Good. More laws and a bigger Nanny State doesn't mean a better life. We (lapsed Progressives) have finally come to that point that we don't want government to mediate our relationships
"We`re sort of finished industrializing the world and we`ve pretty much run out of places to conolize and natural resources to exploit [...] and that relentless kind of exploratory energy hasnt stopped and whats its done instead is its turned inwards towards colozing the human body (medical advances) and soul (digital technology --> domain of ideas and sociality)"
The basic principle of women wanting representation in public life isnt just from middle class women. Working class women wanted it too, and there are many examples of this from the Leveller movement back in the 17th century to women in WWI organising rent strikes. The critical point for men and women is really when we decided to pay MPs a salary, and making it possible for people from the working classes to stand for parliament...women then won the vote and we now have working class women in Parliament and Parliament only just coming to terms with accommodating the needs of pregnant and breastfeeding women. It's taken hundreds of years! I dont want to live in a society that models itself without understanding what half of the society needs by sex and more half needs in terms of economic status and opportunity. No one should have to live under laws and policies that they have not had an opportunity to influence.
For 50+ years women have exclusively controlled sex, pregnancy, and childbirth. The Lady Harrington expresses her satisfaction with that. Women also control their husband's health, wealth, and financial obligation. She doesn't mention that.
Hate to break it to you but women and children have always tamed men. That’s how we have civilization. Because men understand they need to protect and provide for their families in a very cruel world that would harm their own kin if they don’t. That is the burden that men carry. They know that the world is cruel and harsh. That’s what loving your wife and kids is about.
I really tend to feel like all the feminists who whinge and moan about how few female CEO’s, MP’s etc. there are, have zero idea about what is actually required of a CEO. If you’re a CEO, AND you’re actually doing a good job, the likelihood that you have anything resembling a decent social life is next to zero. You may possibly be able to balance family and work somewhat reasonably… if you work very very hard at it. But most don’t. No way am I giving up my time at home with my kids, husband and extended family to work in a company where everyone, at best sucks up your ass all day, and at worst passively or openly despises you, without appreciating any of the work you do lol Don’t get me wrong… I’m chipping away slowly at my post grad, so I can carve out some type of career when my kids head off to school and leave home. I’m therefore, super thankful that the market place has been opened up to women. But to measure our success with the same measuring stick as we measure men’s career success is plain stupid. Just as men’s and women’s role in the family look different…. So too will our roles likely look in the workplace.
This is an interesting point. It seems that the feminists are demanding massive economic benefit with very little effort on their part. CEO fathers are absent. They have to be. The top private schools are well resourced because the CEOs know that they aren’t raising their kids, the school is. Sadly, the feminists also know who is raising the poorest kids and they have taken over those spaces. But they won’t get those easy economic benefits…
@@hv3115 I have :) I quite like JP. I also have a few uncles who started and run medium size businesses, and my parents ran our dairy farm up until a couple of years ago. My whole childhood, and even now people in our local area love to throw darts at my family for being ‘privileged’. And look, we are incredibly blessed… and I see that other people struggle and work just as hard… only to make ends meet. So I’m not taking that away from anyone. But by and large, the people who whinged, had an air of entitlement about them. As though they deserved the resources my family had worked for as much, or more than my family did. And I know for a fact, that these people would be entirely unwilling to wake up at 3am to go down to the factory because the fridges turned off, or a cow was struggling to birth. They wouldn’t cope trudging through cow shit at 4am on below freezing mornings. Mostly, the people who complained, wanted all the perks of being a business owner, or owning land… but would be entirely unwilling to sacrifice what my family have sacrificed to get us where we are. Anyway, I just notice a very similar arrogance, entitlement and ignorance in the feminist narrative that proclaims that, the mere fact that there are not an equal number of women in desirable positions as there are men, is pure evidence of sexism. It’s overly simplistic, and it actually undermines the reality of how difficult and demanding motherhood is, and it’s validity as a valuable life course for women.
This was an excellent critical analysis of the legitimacy of feminism, particularly the discussion of history and technology. Thinking about the “war on relationship between mother and baby” - I too had nightmares in my 20’s about an unwanted pregnancy. Social atomism is the foundation for much more than fertility, pregnancy and sexual relationship. In my business management Ph.D I read an article by Granovetter circa 1990’s that discussed the embeddedness of businesses in society and economy and the embeddedness of the individual within society, economy and work. I think that this embeddedness concept is the flip side of this discussion. We are a society of individuals who have to figure out how to coordinate/unify enough to work together, live together within the society and economy and perpetuate ourselves and our species for the future. It appears to me that we’re not doing very well. As I look at our peculiar world and society I find that I agree with much of this discussion, which is frightening. The notion that, as feminists, we’ve claimed our freedoms only to lose that freedom to a commercial market was hard to accept. I’ve never contemplated how relationships, sex, dating, and being a ‘person’ has become a form of “merchandising.” This is a great source of food for thought.
Only when society is totally and completely falling apart will some women come up with more intelligent ideas regarding love, sex and marriage. Too little, too late.
29:30 Douglas Murray calls male feminists of this kind "cuttlefish": Cuttlefish, a member of the mollusk family, disguise themselves as half-male, half-female to get mates
Why? You aren't capable of having these thoughts yourself and conveying them accordingly? Amazes me how people wait for some stranger to teach them wisdom they should have learnt either in their own families or figured out themselves. Don't let me discourage you from buying madam's books, though.
That's the irony of feminists using terms like "fragile masculinity". I can't think of a single male space that has gotten tougher once women were incorporated into it. Look at what has happened to the workplace.
My daughter was a preemie and we had to.stay in the "care by parent" suite, which is a mini "apartment" in the hospital for new parents to be the main caregiver for their preemie. So you can imagine that there's always a baby crying in the unit but each mom there, first time moms btw, could tell the difference between cries. Each mom could feel it inside when it was their baby crying and then going to tend to their baby. It's amazing. All the cries sound the same. It's not like they have different voices as newborns, but your body just knows your child. They cry, and your heart breaks. You feel your chest tingle, and there is a deep immediate need to get to the baby, and you're happy to do it. It feels like magic. A beautiful wonderful magic. To feed your child from your own body with food your body made for that child. People have it all wrong. The babies aren't the problem. We are the problem.
👏👏👏 please don’t be afraid to speak up and let these radical feminists know they’re being ridiculous. We need help from women because they definitely won’t listen to men. They’re raging narcissists believing this crap
I raise my first generation feminist glass to you Mary! You have all the facts and are spot on the truth. The world needs more women and mothers of your educated analysis. Rights of women went off track in the 80s and has been spiraling down since. Balance is crucial to commerce and ethics. BTW you are in the majority of fearless women that live outside the matrix. Thank goodness you have a brain that thinks for yourself with healthy empathy for humanity. Your book and your voice will change the world for the better. Thank you for sharing. Thank you Chris for the interview. 🇺🇲😉👏
Older ladies are generally similar in thought. My mum is in her 60s and she really only followed feminism up to the 2nd wave, so she sees herself as a feminist. But what she believes is far from what feminism has become now.
I was honestly pretty disgusted hearing Chris talk about his encounter with the gender affirming surgeon and his desire to want to go meet this person again. When working in healthcare, I noticed many doctors are just smart people who will do anything for money, except I found them to be terrible people and stopped working in healthcare.
That doctor is an infallible altruist who can do no wrong, just like a lot of people in the medical profession. I regret not joining the medical profession not because of the cash but because of the moral body shield it gives you.
Understanding How Prehistoric Female Mating Strategies Impact Today's Dating Environment (The Consequences of unrestricted Female Nature) (How the pill and abortion on demand allowed women to act with impunity and naturally causes the 80/20 rule.) I wanted to share some of my thoughts on prehistoric evolutionary mating strategies and how they’re impacting us today, especially since the 1960s. Remember, civilized society is built on laws that restrict base male nature. There are no laws to restrict base female nature. Interesting right? Prior to the pill, no fault divorce and abortion on demand, base female nature was kept in check with agreed upon secular and religious rules. There were very specific societal penalties for engaging in base female cavewoman behaviors. Men could also strike women. But since the 1960s, women’s base female cavewoman nature has been allowed to run rampant without restriction or penalties. This is even more extreme than during prehistoric times as modern day women cannot be struck by a man. Females today can act with impunity in the dating marketplace. Women can verbally abuse and contradict men without fear of physical retribution. Only what I described in the last paragraph was needed to unleash base female cavewoman nature on the world. Feminism doesn't have much to do with what is happening today between men and women. I think talking about feminism wastes alot of time and adds unnecessary layers to this. Even if no "movement" was started, we would still be in the same position we are today. We can all agree that unrestricted base evolutionary male nature would bring on the destruction of civilized society. Imagine if murder, assault, theft, and sexual assault were no longer illegal. Conversely then, wouldn’t it make sense that unrestricted evolutionary female nature could do the same? Well since the 1960s, this worst case scenario has been playing out. This next line is the most important idea in my theory. A woman's evolutionary presumption is that a committed male provider will be lost at any time, and a replacement may be needed immediately to provide for her and her children. Prior to a commitment from (usually) an alpha male, a female will do all she can to get him to commit. She will feel more in love than she ever did and she will let that alpha male know he can have her without restriction. Most alpha males will not commit, leaving millions of alpha widows. This leaves many women ruined for finding a future husband as very few men can compete with the alpha man she lost. Another important point is that, cavewomen would never have uncommitted sex. She would find an alpha and only give herself to him. The only time a cavewoman would have uncommitted sex is during an assault. There were very few alpha widows during prehistoric times as cavemen had harems and concubines. So today, women are pushed to be complicit in their own sexual assaults from a very young age. Cavemen had a low life expectancy. In fact, a cavewoman needed to assume that her caveman husband would not be coming back at the end of the day. This high rate of male mortality highly influenced women’s reproductive strategies during prehistoric times. So, if we think about high caveman mortality in terms of the survival of our species, what would be the best emotional strategy for a cavewoman to have? A - Would it have been better to be completely in love and deeply attached to her cave husband or B - Would it have been better to have a very surface, unemotional relationship, that could be discarded quickly without grief and without feeling trauma? Of course, the cavewoman that could easily detach from her now dead caveman husband and quickly obtain another provider / protector was more likely to survive. Most importantly her existing children were more likely to survive. So, survival of the fittest means, the 2nd, emotionally detached option, had to rule the day to get us here. In order to further the species, cavewomen, once they did have a commitment from a caveman, were built to emotionally detach from that man as soon as possible and only maintain superficial affections to keep her caveman providing. There was no evolutionary advantage for a cavewoman to have a deep committed love for a caveman. Most women grieve very little when a long term relationship is over and men are devastated. Why is that? Remember, cavemen had to have the opposite emotional strategy and commitment to cavewomen. They needed to put their lives on the line to take care of that cavewoman for as long as they lived to make sure that their children, or genetic lineage, were taken care of. Cavemen had to have the deepest blind love for a cavewoman to the point he would give his life because she was the main source of care and nutrition for his seed. So caveman mating strategies valued female lives above their own. Cavewomen never had to risk their lives for their cavemen. Cavemen were disposable, just as modern men are. There is no evolutionary benefit for a woman to have a deep and committed emotional love for a man at the level a man has for a woman. Cavewomen never valued a caveman's life above theirs. So now it is even more understandable why women start 80% of divorces. From the moment they have locked down a good provider, they are biologically wired to begin to look for provider-alternates or as we like to call them sometimes, orbiters, while men are wired to provide blindly for that woman even if it kills them. Cavemen’s main focus was to provide for the mother who then tended to the children. This was a standard top down hierarchy with distinct separation of duties and directed loyalties. So when a woman ends a long term relationship, she has long since lost any initial pair bonding for reasons I already described, but a man rarely loses that deep unselfish commitment. So where does this leave us? Well hopefully armed with a deeper understanding. I believe with education, that base female cavewoman nature can be curbed just as male nature has been curbed for eons. We have laws to suppress base male caveman behaviors. But they can’t be used to curb base female cavewoman behaviors. But, unless they are curbed, as they were before 1960, society’s decline will continue exponentially.
very poignant, imagine recommending Jane Austin, failing to realize that both her choices were mountains above her station both being noble and her being poor and not even being in line, with her unwed older sister ahead in relation to marriage, its fiction not reality otherwise my reality in life is fighting alien monsters on Alpha sigma 17, imagine basing my life around that. As far as society, i wouldnt worry that was set in the 1930's, a bigger issue would be mustard gas and invention of nitrogen fixing, birth pill is one of 10,000's of secondary if not tertiary problems to affix said disaster track
Hello you beauties. Get my free Reading List of 100 life-changing books - chriswillx.com/books/. Here’s the timestamps:
00:00 Intro
00:33 What Qualifies Mary to Critique Feminism?
09:00 Hasn’t There Been Progress for Women Since the Industrial Revolution?
21:28 Feminism After the 1800s
25:50 When Men ‘White-Knight’ for Women
30:20 The Impact of the Sexual Revolution
39:02 What are the Motivations Behind Modern Feminist Progress?
58:25 The Worrying Rise of 'Transhumanism'
1:11:21 Society’s Need to Abolish ‘Big Romance’
1:25:02 Is the Sexual Revolution Sidelining Men?
1:32:16 The Feminist Case for Not Taking the Pill
1:38:24 How People Can Help to Abolish ‘Big Romance’
1:43:26 Where to Find Mary
Chris, do you ever plan to have Anons on the podcast?
It’s really nice to see that you actually browse through the comments and add a like now and then.❤
Feminism is the response to be better at survival when there is war or chaos in the society.
I need to be on your podcast Chris
1:25:00 onwards. Men's currency is respect. Nagging is not showing respect. Plus, women have often picked based upon the male hierarchy
I wanted to add a cultural note about women in Japan, who have more direct economic power in their households than women do here in the United States. Men typically work outside the home, but deposit their paycheck into a joint account which the women control. When I lived in Japan for 5 years (I worked as a translator for a Japanese auto manufacturer), the "salariman" I worked with from the home office would sometimes ask for someone else to pick up their tab when we went out to a Japanese pub after work. They sheepishly complained that the allowance their wives gave them every month had run out and they wouldn't get any more until pay day! Also, this system explains why I was asked by the bank teller when I opened up a bank account there if I wanted the annual Christmas bonus to go in a special account. "No, why would I do that?" "It's a special account separate from the account your regular paycheck goes in." "I'm sorry, I still don't see why I would need that..." The bank teller then asked me, "Excuse me, sir, for asking this question, but--are you married?" "Uh, no, I'm single." "Oh, then, never mind!" When I told my boss about this, he hurried me away from the communal desk and the OLs (office ladies) and told me about the "special account" as if he were revealing sensitive state secrets. NOW I knew why they had it--to keep it away from their wives!
And now Japan only had 800k children born last year
Would that system work in the West where 85% of retail is exclusively for women? Those Japanese women are probably a lot more frugal and careful with money than their Western counterparts, because a system like that in the West would send many a family bankrupt in just a few years.
thanks for the anecdote. good stuff
@@stroodlepup giving women the power to make financial decisions is effectively anti-natalism, it's such a turn-off, it's amazing
@@stroodlepup Don’t know how to tell you this but fertility rates for most countries are below replacement rate.
I’m working at a University, I just started last week. I’m a friendly gentleman and being 35 I was naive to how feminism and the thought process of hating men has seeped into every part of higher education. Which leads me to what happened this past week. I was almost fired for being “too friendly” to my co workers, all of them are females and most of them are obese.
They told me I can’t smile or ask how people’s days are because that’s creepy now. This is where we are. Now I’m waiting to hopefully transfer to another department where it’s less people but still all female unfortunately
Get out entirely. The entire enterprise is bankrupt. You didn’t join a nursing department or a child care centre for the same reason. Toxic femininity is impossible to deal with.
That’s weird, I work in HE and that doesn’t sound healthy. I would think that would lead you to walking on eggshells every day.
@@n.t.495 it really is! I was so enthusiastic to help students figure out what they wanted to do as it’s a college advisor role and the first point of contact for the school. I went into this job thinking I would be able to smile and be kind towards students and when I was shadowing the female co worker whom is an advisor of sevral months, she was very cold and rude towards a student who had questions regarding his major.
I may end up resigning tomorrow and moving on
@@PaulAllen786 It doesn't sound like she's there to help anyone but herself. She wants a paycheck, medical, and good pension. Horrible. I found government offices are full of these women. Minimum wage teenagers are 10 times faster at their job than any of these middle aged women working in all government offices. They're more concerned about where they're going for lunch than anything to do with their job.
Yes, it's rampant in academia.
The loneliness aspect of being a stay-at-home mother, I think, is also somewhat exacerbated by that cultural shift towards the career-first attitude. When stay-at-home moms were a lot more common, they would usually build bonds with other moms in their community (neighbors, religious communities, extended family - you know, the "it takes a village to raise a child" thing). But if your circle of friends mainly includes work colleagues, especially if you live in a big city, you really don't have access to those kinds of supportive relationships. And once the daily routine sets in, I imagine it can get tremendously lonely at times.
You have a solid point. I'm a SAHM mother of 3 with one on the way and I have personally experienced this among family and friends and finding groups that allow for my children to socialize and also build bonds with other women with a similar lifestyle. The loneliness and isolation, even more so after 2020, is very real. The last way to get any kind of support and interaction it seems is in the Church, but even that is waning depending on where you live.
Yes I noticed a huge difference between being a stay at home mother with my first child when my street was full of other stay at home mums, and my youngest child when I was the only one home in my street on weekdays.
Yes. No one ever discusses the reality of the lonely stay-at-home mom.
Yes, there's actually sociological data about this as well, how the neighborhood used to be a huge resource outside of the family to support young women with children and those resources are almost completely gone. Now combined with the elderly (grandparents) are either too old (age of first baby shifted from somehow in the early 20s to over 30, hence the grandparents are older as well) and /or they live separately far away, it changes the picture of a woman becoming a mother completely. This is why midwifes have become so incredibly important, because they are basically having the knowledge and giving support to isolated first birth given women.. I am not saying that before everything was better but the situation has changed..
@@wyleecoyotee4252 Missed the point completely. It's not being a stay at home mom that causes loneliness, it's how society is now that causes loneliness. Working careers is lonely too because of the mindset of our culture. No one at work cares about anyone, only at a superficial level.
1:39:00 is the only conclusion I have been able to come to as well. I feel that my life would have been far easier and more enjoyable had the whole “men and women are the exact same” thing NOT been pounded into my head for the first 15 years of my life. Rather than teaching our natural differences, encouraging our natural tendencies, and diminishing our natural advantages they literally pushed women to replace the men in their lives while at the same time eliminating the actual value of women.
It is much easier to collectivize people with no attachments of family. Think about the character Black Widows training involving removing her uterus. This dehumanized her and her entire character arc throughout the films is her reclaiming her humanity until she becomes mother to the universe through her sacrifice for the soul stone.
>
Feminists have been teaching women to BE men, and doing very well at inculcating masculine values in women.
That this denigrates and ignores feminine values is ignored, except by women who don't do well at being men and wish they could be women instead.
@@paulatreides4274 not sure who the Black Widow is, but from your description, I agree!
I feel the opposite, my entire life I was told "women and girls are superior to men and boys", "women are smart, men are dumb". If I was taught that men and women are the same I wouldn't have hated myself for being born male most of my life...
It's not about being men and women being the exact same, it's about having rights. If you to want to be a handmaid and a traditional woman, I will fight your right to do so, But I will turn on you in a nanosecond if you start advocating women should lose rights like abortion bans. I don't care want to be baby making machines, I only care that child free women such as myself can continue to live our lives they way we want to free of oppression. Prior to 1970, women couldn't by their own homes or have credit cards.....women were trapped in abusive marriages because they were denied the ability to provide for themselves through adequate employment. Feminism is a reaction to that oppression. Imagine being a woman married to an abusive husband and you had no resources to leave. He would just beat you until you died.
If you think this is about men and women being the same, you are naive. It's about your right to live free from oppression and oppressive laws.
Why do women always need to be happy? Imagine if a man goes into work one day and says "I am not happy". People would assume that something had gone wrong in his life that needed fixing. They might speculate what that might be, and how to fix it but they would not just assume that his wife was oppressing him and that the first thing he should do is walk out. The assumption that a women's happiness is a gift of her husband, and that the failure to gift it, is clearly malevolent, is wierd.
Women are happier without a husband.
@@wyleecoyotee4252 Must be all the anti-depressants.
@@MartialistKS
They're on antidepressants when they are married . They can't cope.
'Just one less problem without him'
Totally agree 💯 men and women a responsible for their own happiness. And when you're emotionally mature enough u can share everything with someone else and get the benefits from that as well.
@@wyleecoyotee4252 that’s not true and if you link Paul Dolan’s debunked study then I’ll know you’re not a smart person
“If you take birth control off the table, you’re far less likely …….to hook up with some guy….. who you don’t trust….. a much higher bar”…. THE TRUTH
Birth control is at the centre of all this woke degeneracy
Except that the teen pregnancy rate was highest JUST BEFORE the birth control pill…..
It is actually the lowest it has ever been.
@@blammela Yes...and the promiscuity rates are sky high.....zero responsibility.
This does not take account of the unborn babies we are killing.
It was actually highest in 1991
@@blammela
As a husband and father who went to work everyday while my wife raised the kids, I missed so many special events during the week that I look back with some regret. The grass is always greener and having a career is often not all it’s cracked up to be
YES. This is the fundamental lie being sold. Careers mean responsibility and you can’t do both. Men never have. Why would women? Unless their jobs are so unproductive that they aren’t missed?? 🤷♂️
We thought we could have both. 100% career, 100% mother. I talk to so many Moms in their late 30s-40s shocked by the fact that we can’t do both. Seems obvious now, but I sure believed it when I was younger.
Just one of the untruths I had to unlearn when I became a mom.
We wanted mens’ jobs but didn’t think of the negatives that come with that territory, like missing our families.
@@jennaphage Nothing oppresses women more than modern feminism.
Modern feminism has BECOME the "systemic oppression"... to women.
It's been that to men and children for about 50+ years... and, as a "2nd order effect" (the next link in the chain), it's hurt all of society.
You mentioned having to give up your time with your children in order to pursue your career/job.
Another thing that you weren't doing... that you were missing... was you and your children "binding" the neighborhood together... and neighborhoods became more dangerous as a result... help each other less, if at all...
A child's first introduction to "society" (the concept, rules, etc) is the family, in the home.
The 2nd is the neighborhood... or WAS the neighborhood...
And then, the school.
I also missed a lot of my kids' 'growing up moments' because I had to work to pay the bills. But the fact that my wife could stay home and be there for them made it worthwhile. I can't imagine how sad I would feel if my kids' first steps or first words were witnessed only by some stranger in a daycare center.
@@sammygoodnight that's exactly what lot of fathers missing.
When kids grow up you wish you had more time for them than for your employers.
This trend changing because now women want to slave for bosses more than supporting husbands and families
As a woman who didn't get to finish high school for reasons outside of my control; therefore no university and some decades of just surviving, trying to scrape together the very basics of Maslow's 'bottom tier', I appreciate being able to learn from an obviously well educated, well rounded woman such as Mary. I will definitely be reading her book.
Replace "Woman" with "Man" and you sound like a bitter incel lol
@@MK_ULTRA420 I'm currently deliberately not having a sexual relationship and I'm super cool with that... LoL
Oh great, another follower. Most women are followers. The difference between being a Feminist or not, is who the woman is a slave to... a woman or a man. That's it, the whole deal.
@@permissiontoshine lol incel
I understand you. Learning never stops even if you had been to Uni.
The greatest moment of my (male) life was not the actual birth of my first born (daughter) but seeing her with her mother when I walked into the maternity ward the next day. There was something timeless and transcendent about that mother/child union, I get what Mary was alluding to. I was filled with a sense of reverence for my wife, as a woman and a mother, and I understood at that moment the fulfilment that many women derive from bringing another life into the world.
There are a lot of people that don't. If feminism ever had any merit, it was to prevent those people from having kids, a goal towards which it has been partially successful.
🙏🙏🙏
When a woman has your child, they have paid you the best compliment you can possibly be paid.
They have taken half your DNA - the very fabric of what you are - and turned it into a new human which they will die for, and dedicate their life to.
When you are paid that compliment, the remainder of your life should be dedicated to serving and protecting her.
Even if you separate from each other later - her happiness should be your goal, since she is better than the best babysitter you will ever have. And she is looking after your immortality.
The whole thing transcends culture, religion and the law. The idea that a father could possibly be knowingly absent is a sick modern perversion.
Yeah, even now, years after my wife gave birth to our kids, if I ever see her holding a baby (someone else's), it's like a religious vision. It's like seeing the Madonna in a tortilla. There's a glittering halo to it that arrests your heart.
@@tonycatman That's a nice sentiment, but if you divorce in places like the US, she can take half of everything you have and make you pay child support, WHILE keeping you from EVER seeing your children again until they are adults. She can poison their minds against you, convince them you are a monster, and turn your "immortality" into a tragic curse all the while making you PAY to have her take so much meaning out of your life.
Your sentiment is naïve to the actual world we live in now. Perhaps in another time it had merit, but now it's poetry that rings hollow all too often.
"If you want to control your fertility, there's always the option of not having sex." THANK YOU. This is what I think every time someone starts crying about possibly getting pregnant.
That's "unacceptable" in today's society. Self-responsibility...???? Noooo...
This is considered self repression. Being unable to express and act deep desires. There's a widespread 20th century leftist hypothesis that sexual repression is the primary cause of Nazism.
This. Modern people treat sex like it's a playground when it's really a construction zone.
@@ms-jl6dl Agreed, feminists will always scream "my body, my choice." Here's an idea: It's your choice alone to not spread your legs to every man you come across.
@@oambitiousone7100 True, men and women share the blame. The crazy idea is that don't spread your legs every time you meet a person. It's not that hard.
“Don’t marry porn addicts.”
The equivalence of that for men is “don’t marry attention addicts.”
Equivalence for men is just “don’t marry”.
imo the effects of porn addiction can be remedied with tantric sex
How about "Don't marry social media addicts"?
@@willh7352 Or just regular sex with a half attractive woman that is feminine.
@@poorpotato7623 don't undermine yourself or other men.
Chris says something that really struck me as an older man watching a younger man speak to issues like this. He said, "finding out that 80% of women without children grieve the loss of a family that never was and have support groups to deal with it, really really sent shivers down my spine." Not exact but you get the gist of it. That in hindsight is when you know you are a mature and well grounded young man. You can listen to, read or see that something like that is real for women (and men) and viscerally feel something about it. If you can see it, read it, hear it and still not feel anything about it, you're just not there yet.
My heart breaks for women who were lied to their whole life and realized too late that they can never have children. As a father of two and another soon to arrive, there is no greater joy than having children and seeing my wife with them makes me smile every time.
we need more men like you guys! so heart warming 🥹
I've heard Mary speak on this topic before and she possess both extremely sharp arguments combined with excellent oration to drive them home. I hope she continues speaking out and that people continue to listen.
It's disgraceful that she never appears in any of our mainstream newspapers or magazines here in the UK.
Thank you Chris. I really appreciate the guests you bring onto your platform. As a 31 year old woman whose perspectives have shifted to be more conservative over the past few years, it's refreshing to hear women actually critique feminism and today's common narrative. I have few friends who see the value in monogamy and marriage, so discovering speakers like Mary & Louise Perry interests me. Hearing your viewpoints have been helpful as well, reminding me that there are emotionally stable, intellectually curious and driven men out there. Stay well ✨
Would you be willing to recind ALL of the rights and freedoms feminism provided you? Ones you take for granted?
You wouldn't mind not being allowed a credit card, property ownership etc?
You wouldn't mind it if raping and beating a wife became legal again?
My wife is a stay at home mom and is enjoying the recent birth of our 2nd son. She will never have the power career many women aspire to. But I suspect when my wife gets old she will be happier than the more affluent childless women. And for what it's worth, you don't need two incomes to live well. If you can agree to be frugal, one income will suffice.
@@JoeBudee Thank you for sharing Joe, wishing you and your family many blessings this year!
Are you now interested in traditional monogamous relationships with clear gender roles now that you are old and used goods and can clearly see the end of your prime youthful female privilege?
@@twilightknight2333 LOL - thanks for the laugh! I'm actually a virgin waiting for marriage, and I don't judge others who have casual relations. Your actions (and reactions) are your choice, but your lifestyle does not have to be mine. Take good care.
I raised lmy 3 boys in the 70's. In those days most moms were stay at home.. it was wonderful. We formed play groups, and gathered everyday to discuss different issues esp could rearing. We took our kids on day trips. I never wanted anyone else to raise my kids.
I think it's the option to work, have a career, and have sexual freedom which were the goals of feminism in the period which is a goof prospect. You have the option to live life how you want. Third wave feminism seems intent on demonising the traditional lifestyle as if its promoting the oppression of women. Its strange that third wave has reversed its views on women's freedom...
I meant good prospect smh
I also meant fourth wave
It was also more economically viable then.
Yep feminism was fine as long as it was only hurting men .
And children.
"on tonight's news, feminism makes men want to self delete, women most affected."
If feminism has hurt men, then it's likely because certain groups of men protected women's ability to do so. At the end of the day, women usually can't hurt or punish men on their own without some kind of assistance. Generally, whatever actions women take that are detrimental to men are often supported and protected by other men.
Idk but feminism has set me free as a man. I can stay single and anytime anyone asks me why I just say marriage is oppressive to women and I don’t want to oppress women cuz I’m a feminist!
@@poorpotato7623 "the more you know...." 🌟🌟🌟
The bit about the scouts and the loss of all male socialisation spaces for boys was spot on.
I am female, not anti-pill (women often take it for reasons other than birth control), and I am pro-choice before 20 weeks ... And I agree with you.
@@carolynngockel3670 with a bit of luck we may be able to reinstate the noble tradition of friendly handjobs in the gentlemen's club.
Drives me crazy that even she frames it as the Scouts "went coed". They didn't just go coed, they were beaten and harangued until they had to bend the knee. The fact that the related girl scouts also got mad about it, as if they were trying to horn in on their territory, is equally frustrating.
I'm fast approaching my 60's. I'm not sorry that I never had children - it probably had a lot to do with my parents giving over responsibility to me at age 9 for my siblings. I knew at an early age how difficult it was to take care of kids.... But I do wish I had heard some of this much sooner. I think that many women of my generation didn't realize the value of their sexuality.
Make sure you voice your opinion to other women who may be younger than you. The vast majority of them believe this crap and they won’t even allow themselves to hear an opposing opinion because they can’t imagine a world where they’re wrong. Especially if a man tried to tell them any of this? They start hurling insults like a child. I wish i was kidding but we really need some women and especially older women with more wisdom to wake these young girls up. They are literally ruining society. Divorce rates are skyrocketing and birth rates are plummeting. By the time i’m your age (40 yrs) there may not even be enough people to run the infrastructure, or grow all our food. It’s scary, and it’s all happening because women think their individual happiness comes before everything else.
Don't worry, they still don't
I sat through a phone conversation between my sister in law and a colleague of hers, in the process of trying to recruit the next CEO of a charity promoting women’s opportunities in developing countries. They had a problem, the only applications for the role that they had received were from middle aged white men. The conclusion from their conversation was that they needed to reject the applicants because it wouldn’t be very fitting for a womens rights charity to be led by a white man. When the phone call ended, I reminded my sister in law of the Equality Act 2010 but she thought I was joking… is this progress??
Personally, i would have recorded the phone call and reported her to BBB or the authorities. Lord knows if the roles were reversed they would be outraged if a woman was rejected based on her gender. They would be posting “___ charity exposed for misogyny, men are trash” blah blah. So yea i would take all the action i could to make sure they feel the effects of “EQUALITY” 😅
@@tylermassaro4266 But, Wouldn't they have just sided with Bozo misandrist, RACIST SIL, though?
No, this is women.
femos call it equality
Listened to this on Spotify and I had to come here to comment. Not because I have anything particularly profound to say, but just because Mary Harrington and this conversation are incredible and I had to tell you.
I work in the hospitality industry, with a lot of teens and "kids" in their early 20's (I'm 35).
I see al of this crap playing out in real life: Girls who are afraid to tell a guy NO for fear of being seen as a prude: Guys being lethargic: I've had to hear stories of girls wondering if they were raped if they were black out drunk and had turned the guy down many times before; Girls who say they don't want kids because they want a career and they want to travel; Guys who say they don't want kids in order to save The Enviroment; recently a transgender kid started working here (divorced parents, leftwing mother, brother with a load of mental health problems so they never got any attention, and, probably not unimportantly: unnattractive looking when he was a girl.); guys (20 year old boys) saying they'll never mary because "Women will take you for everything you've got."(They're BOYS!); Teen girls who have slept with more men than she remembers.
It's horrifying.
And you can tell them and thell them over and over again, try to explain population collapse, try to tell them how empty life is without a family, try to tell them the enviroment will have to be saved by China and India and Pakistan because The Netherlands' effect is negligible on a global scale.
Most of these kids have no plans for the future other than "I want to be rich and have a good job." because they think (perhaps rightly judging by Mary's comments on the rise of transhumanism ) that whealth will be the only thing that can protect them from future misery.
I wish I had a magic wand that could save them all from all the brainwashing society has put them through.
great insight
This is the society that women marched for.
@@MK_ULTRA420 this is why they weren't given power in ancient societies
Im glad you came over to comment very insightful and very sad. Thank you for sharing
Femanists caused this, they can watch it all burn
An idea popped into my head upon listening to the part about modern women's fear of being pregnant and of labor/delivery. The fear towards one's own body is not of "being weakened" by pregnancy but of not having enough strength to endure the unknown. And that is in an unprecedented time of safety around childbirth. Setting aside economic concerns, I heard this common observation from women around me who had not had children. They commented on my bravery in the same way as when I went on vacation alone. I felt fear as they did but I chose to believe I could handle what came my way. It's a risk aversion scale and I fell on the riskier side which was perceived as brave. Somehow, I think it relates to our victimhood culture. Being pregnant and giving birth requires strength and bravery that is not consistent with being a victim. That's just an idea, though, based on my experience.
Feminism is a form of Marxism, of Leftism. It needs Lies & Ignorance to exist and Hatred and Shame in order to grow. Congratulations for not falling into their Fear based traps. If I had to guess, I'd guess that you are un-jabbed as well. CoV was the master-class of Ignorance and Fear mongering. I'm happy to report that I remain a non-feminism and I am unjabbed.
I think you have a point about the way victimhood culture permeates this. There are extremely feminist women who can vary from being Anti-Natalist altogether, to those who have terminated their pregnancies and then use that as a form of virtue signaling/perpetuating victimhood, or those who couldn't have more children that they wanted and again, it becomes a virtue signal or way to be seen as a victim and garner tons of pity. I've seen this in my personal experience with women in my family/friend groups.
@@captnhuffy Thanks for the reply. I got vaccinated since I was in healthcare and vaccinations have always been required in my field but from the beginning I said, "As long as it's not mandatory, I'd think of it as a positive step. As long as we maintain freedom of choice." Even though that turned out to be a false hope, I stayed with the promise of a better outcome for all for 2 boosters but finally fought against the ease of going with the flow when the evidence became apparent. I have never believed that ALL vaccinations work miracles and each one must be evaluated for efficacy. I really hate the term "anti-Vaxxer", as if all people who choose not to have a particular vaccine (like the annual flu vax) are against all forms of vaccine. I'm not ignorant, I'm practical. If it demonstrates that it works, great. If not, stop brow-beating.
@@raymyoverlord8615 Very well said. that's me too. Not anti-vax .. but I'm not gunna be a guinea pig either. I was planning on waiting til the second winter to get jabbed. Then 2nd winter came and I thought: let the old folks at risk have my jab. Then after winter I thought: my risk is so low and MAYBE there is just as great of risk in the jab as in the virus itself. And now we know better. So, you can see I wasnt anti-vax, but distrusted the messages we were gettting. I have always been anti-big-brother Gov, as well as not trusting the MSM. I'm happy I'm unjabbed, and have natural immunity from the first strain.
Totally agree with you. Both men and women are weak today and lack courage. This is because we’ve raised children indoors, not in nature and not with common sense and real life experience.
And lo, twenty years after it was obvious to the bus driver and carpenter, the self anointed descend from their academic conclaves to save the world!
Agree, and she says it herself, she did all the damage she could as a card-carrying feminist, and only lately has come round to basic reality, and would now very much like it if we could carry her and fix society for her, same as ever. But the titanic has already hit the iceberg, there is no saving culture at this point, the only thing left is to survive the crossing to the next cultural era. Which probably will be the transhumanist one, which, although some people will mess themselves up in it due mainly to having a bad case of the modern mind-virus, will actually just be good for the rest of us.
@@CmdrN7 after trimming about 7.5 billion, it'll be great.
Exactly.... its always been about class. Fuck them all.
look, a youth counselor. very encouraging
hahhahahah, love this comment
I love your questioning technique and interview comfort- truly inspiring- helps me to engage with such academic discussion and not feel too out of my depth
One of Mary Harrington's best. I have seen her before, but this interview was a masterclass,
"Current feminism is about female freedom."
Translation: Current feminism is about women trying to figure how to remove all personal responsibility/accountability. In other words: no boundaries and zero consequences.
Women love to be held...just not accountable.
I remember my wife telling one of her daughters, "just because you can do anything you want doesn't mean you can do anything you want."
The unspoken bit at the end was "without consequences or responsibility."
yep n also no id whihc leads 2 v toxic mess called women we hve today
Chris, appreciate your honesty when asking Mary about a word you didn't know (don't worry happens to all of us but most "pretend" to know).
I agree, and I appreciate ppl like Mary Harrington answering questions in a non condescending way
"If you need other people you're failed" am someone who pride himself not needing people but this quotes got me thinking. Thanks Chris for another great interview
Chris, thank you (again) SO MUCH for just giving your guests space to talk through their ideas and express their thoughts fully. This is your superpower, it's why I keep listening to your show over others.
I did not mind at all Mary's tendency to occasionally pause for a moment to grasp for the right words. I do this myself a lot, and while it's often seen as a weakness in this frantic breathless world we live in now, I see it as a signal that there is real thinking going on behind those words.
This woman is very logical. As a scientist, I find this quality to be highly attractive. I am married to a woman who is also very logical. Radical feminism cannot stand up to rational arguments. The goal of this movement is the creation of a matriarchy that dominates men and confers even more privilege on women.
Also, we women do HAVE CYCLES
what our grandmother's wanted, we dont.
It would also help a bit, if women start wearing dresses/skirts again
At a decent length
We have better fabrics these days.
It seemed, after 1990s, women seemed to have stopped wearing them
@@kathleenking47 Having cycles is, in my experience, equivalent with going through an emotional and irrational rollercoaster of moods and tempers every friggin 28 days that is, from a man's perspective, with rational logic almost unfathomable. I had to work and live (offshore sailing) with psychopaths, drug addicts, drinkers, depressed, bipolar and normal people. Not one man ever showed a comparable variety of personalities as the women I took on board did show on a regular basis already without any of the above mentioned additional issues. How anybody in their right mind can even think about getting away with omitting *_that_* when women's place in society is discussed is absolutely beyond me, while it is in fact mainstream to try and omit it.
@@manfredschmalbach9023 yup, but if you point out how irrational and emotional women can get, especially having to do with their “cycle”, you’re called a misogynist. It’s expected since, after all, they’re far more irrational and emotional but the problem is we allow them to dominate pop culture and “social norms” anyway. This is going to be controversial, but that is the EXACT reason why women throughout history had less rights than men. They are generally easier to control and it’s easier to insert ideas into their head. Every man with a brain has noticed this and therefore in the past they weren’t trusted to make their own informed decisions about society and politics etc. I wonder why they think “women and children” is a thing and “men and children” is not. Women are closer to children than men. Children THINK they know everything… they are absolutely convinced of it but YOU as a parent know better. This, in my opinion, is the same kind of relationship men have with women. They think they understand things fully and they think they have society and history all figured out. They do not. Also, let me make it clear that I don’t mean to generalize. Obviously, as we can see from the video, there are women that do think critically about things and that do have rational explanations and thoughts. All i’m saying is that women tend to fall into mind traps more than men do. Even Mary took 28 years to realize that her mindset was wrong and misguided! I love women and I don’t believe in “oppressing” them, but I do believe in protecting them from themselves. If we didn’t get rid of that aspect of society, we wouldn’t be having the problems we’re having now. Yes some good has come from feminism but we don’t know where this ends and how bad it gets. Society used to be structured to keep things running smoothly and society intact, now that’s all falling apart thanks to women. That’s why i’m very excited we’re finding more and more women who are waking up to those facts and speaking out against this madness. If men try to tell women anything we’re “enforcing the patriarchy” or whatever buzzword they like to use, but if women do it maybe just maybe they’ll be more open to listening. Probably not though because they think they already know everything and Mart is part of the patriarchy. 🤦♂️🤦♂️
@@tylermassaro4266 As becoming the miso-thingy and "pushing patri ... You know, the thing" when mentioning the differences between men and women and the resulting problems in entities of all scales getting steered by women, we men are, in the gynocentric west at least, doomed to let things blow up on their own until a majority of women starts recognizing their fault when it comes to pushing the terroristic, society-destroying ideology of femanosm.
That's the tragic in all that gender-war making life between feminists a chore, to say the least: We might love women, but we have to let them race the whole thing to the cliff and beyond, over it, and crash it before we can do anything to bring things back on track. Living alone, (I became a singlehander after having learned about people in general and women in particular the hard way) not playing their game, not dating, not taking any part in any of their ruinous insanities and megalomaniae but doing our own thing, going our own way is the only thing we can do. I am glad MGTOW is growing so fast and women are, obviously, starting to grasp what they did to themselves and that way to all of human kind, but it still is far from any tipping point in terms of women actually ending the terrorism femanosm basically is.
Perhaps Trans act as woman's advocates, like a big, more logical, sister, in order to dominate "mans world". Even as they get dominated by a man with a wig on. 🧏♀️
I'm appalled at this prevailing mindset where women are unhappy and it's always some man's fault...
Me too. I am totally disgusted by what Western society has become.
You are just learning about this now? This has been going on for almost a decade now.
Yes, we should take things into our own hands and stop having sex with one of you unless you marry one of us. The most attractive women to men are 25 or younger when we are most fertile, but before our brains are fully developed. So it is critical that parents teach their girls this truth and imprint it in their minds so that the young, attractive, barely adult women know the power they have over men in courting practices when they do not have sex with them.
Unfortunately, because of casual sex culture, women usually find this out through experience. This commonly leads to women despising men and even the entire concept of family.
And also, casual sex culture is at a great disadvantage to less attractive men. The highly attractive men aren't being taken out of the market. Therfore, women chase the attractive man. That same man leaves her and another woman takes her place for him to leave her as well. If these attractive men were getting married (in order to get sex), they would be out of the market and women would look elsewhere to less attractive men.
Mega rich guys want a bigger pool of loose women? Otherwise 100% these women leading eachother up the garden path. Ruining society along the way.
I’m appalled at this prevailing mindset where men are lonely and it’s always some women’s fault…
Best interview in a while. I am amazed by this woman! Already preordered her book!!
👍
you might like Camille Paglia as well, if you don't know her yet
@@priapulidaoooh bad call. Fundamentally, I think there's certain blind spots she'll never over come because of being a lesbian. She's never had to take the pill or argue with a bf about condoms not feeling pleasurable for him. Arguing over gender stereotyped domestic work. Etc. Etc. She's gotten s lot wrong to the point I don't recommend her anymore.
@@sarahharris2729 I don't agree with everything she says as well but tbh considering the breadth and depth of her work these points sound marginal to the point of being bad-faith, petty or even ridiculous.
@@priapulida oh sorry😰😰, I was thinking of Julie Bindel!!! Camille has some of that too, but I agree about the over all breadth of Cam's work yes. Her recent collabs with JP a few years ago was interesting too. I personally do not gravitate towards lesbian writers in peace making with the male sex, though they make very good analysts and deconstructions.
Marriage was never about happiness. It was about raising children
Life should only be about happiness
@@wyleecoyotee4252 then self deletion is the only option because misery is guaranteed. Animals aren’t happy. They just want to survive. You are no different.
Are you saying that raising children can't bring happiness ;-)?
@@moziburullah9827 It absolutely can, the point is that happiness should not be the main goal. Happiness is a pleasant side effect that should be enjoyed in the moment.
@@wyleecoyotee4252 Chasing happiness is why you've never found any. Happiness can not be attained in that matter. It's a constatnly moving target. This is one of the core spiritual and psychological misunderstandings of this era, which is ironically causing so much misery. Everyone chases the unicorn of happiness, only to not get it, then gets depressed and has to take head pills. It's classic 'modern woman'.
It is so fantastic to hear such a true female perspective. Mary is someone who writes about the female experience in a way I fully relate to. In a world where women are supposed to be so emancipated, it feels like their concerns come lower and lower in the media, in society and in the economic realm. This extends to men too. The perspectives of the two genders have been replaced by a faux sexless truth for all which suits nobody. Will be buying her book!
Nicely stated, Nicki!
FINALLY a palatable historical description of why feminism came about and was needed at the time. Good lord it's so refreshing to hear a woman say "feminism came because of the washing machine, free time and divorce laws back then" and not because yeaaaaah girl power yeaaahh progresssss, all these self-evident parroted dogmas which no one really knows why they're here...
I am absolutely blown away by how good of a conversation this is.
Very few people say things that meaningfully contribute to worn out debates and Mary Harrington manages to make me think of new nuance about about a given point of argument with every other sentence. I didn't think her appearance again on this podcast could possibly outdo the last but this absolutely does that. Chris' genuine curiosity and willingness to immediately stop talking when Mary has further nuance to clarify is both impressive and endearing.
Chris if you are reading this, bravo man. Great work. Same to you Mary, though I suspect the odds of you reading this are even less likely.
Sadly many people have turned themselves into a mix of branding, personality checklists, diagnoses, and catchphrases that its hard to get to know anyone.
But most people have no personality or identity.
yes v feminists destroyed id since v 80s, n we can c v toxic results in todays lost gens.
She is such an amazing orator!
Really? I find it pretentious and annoying and way less substantial because of it.
It's easier to change a job than it is to change a husband when he's the one that feeds you. So yes, having a job gives you more freedom than relying on someone else for your livelihood.
You don't need a new one, you can take the "deficient" one to court for all he's got and keep living on his money. It happens constantly.
@@adogg-2006 Or better, be self sufficient, have your own money, and if you choose to marry, pick someone that will be your partner and a friend.
I've learnt about my own body, the side effects if the pill and the natural cycle mainly in my secondary school, Catholic school for girls run by Ursuline nuns, some 35 years ago. It's so good to hear people coming to their senses about it although it has taken soo long.
I suspect a lot of women are oblivious to the life long side effects the contraceptive pill may cause.
Unfortunately our daughters will not get that type of moral and health education from the Ursulines in Ireland today. They switch on Home & Away and the amoral TV soaps, perform religious rituals like musicals, have no sense of the sacred or comprehension of the challenges and assault on young girls and women, but a great obsequiousness for money and social class.
@@marskinlan2034 really? Very sad to hear that. They still stand strong in my old school, in Poland. Very strong headed and hard working women. That was my experience... no nonsense
Women ain't never happy.
Chris, I’ve been following you on this journey for months. This guest has identified the root cause perfectly. The transition from an agrarian society in villages to the industrial and city centered happens from 1865 - 1900. Our model for dating and mating did not evolve during that time and remained patriarchy centered. Women did not get to participate in the decision making process nor benefit from the upswings. You also have the onset of photography and newspapers which is the beginning of ‘social media’ if you will… which acts as a giant mirror by which women are able to examine their opportunities as compared to others, as they realize they do not like their options of 0. Add to that they are being told they do not get a ‘reroll’ to better their choices as men do, and you find yourself at 1900 first wave feminism : an angry group of women who hate their mating options of men who are burnt out, under educated, broke boozers and bruisers, with no shot at upward mobility (being allowed a second chance to chance to mate up) … I almost can’t blame them. The question now is, what to do about it all?
From agrarian society to Only Fans in less than 150 years.
You made it sound very good but you leave out a lot of key points. In those times, most men didn’t even have “upward mobility” or “opportunities”… the top 5-10% of men did. Women don’t see the other men because those aren’t the ones they want so they’re invisible. Women don’t consider them at all they just get mad because they don’t have the same opportunities as a 1%er. It’s ridiculous. You left out a lot more but, honestly, i’m not interested in correcting you. Everyone just wants to make excuses for why this happened and act like women are right about everything. They’re not. Hopefully we’re gonna remind them of that within the next few decades. The aggressiveness in which they’ve pushed feminist ideals and don’t know when enough is enough is the exact reason women didn’t have rights. Men knew that women who had power would take it too far and literally destroy society, which is exactly what’s happening right now. Birth rate falling, divorce rate rising, USA standing as a world power falling. This is women’s doing and the feminists are proud of it. Maybe men need to start marching to take women’s rights again since they don’t know how to simply be productive members of society that are responsible foe their own actions. They just want to blame everything on men like a child who gets caught doing something wrong. Craziness
@@tylermassaro4266 We're all in this together. Male and female.
@@SamStone1964 i used to think like that too but now idk if i’m so sure. It’d be great to all work together but women seem so dead set on making sure that doesn’t happen. I have no sympathy for whatever happens to them. If i’m not mistaken, 50% of women will be single and childless for the rest of their life by 2030. They can do all that rah rah i’m independent, i know everything, men suck and anything they tell me must be oppressive, but once they’re 45 and they have nobody who really cares about them they’re gonna be crying and trying to warn other women to “not make the same mistake”. I can’t wait honestly, it’s exactly what they get. They think they have it all figured out but eventually every single one of them is gonna figure out they were fed fantasy, fairy tale BS and they fell for it like a dog looking for the ball you never threw. You can tell who the smart ones are by what they believe and how much liberal propaganda they’ll accept. All i know is I’m gonna be investing my money into things like cat toys, boxed wine and vibrators. That’s what Morgan Stanley is recommending to investors because of the vast amount of women who are gonna be left single 😂😂. The time for “we’re in this together” has sailed, they can keep their smug little arrogance over there and deal with the consequences. There’s no point in trying to help them because they’ve all just been indoctrinated into hating men, and simultaneously whoring around. I wish em’ luck, but i’m sure they’ll just go on anti-depressants thinking they did nothing wrong and it’s all men’s fault 🤦♂️
@@tylermassaro4266 My rule is to block narcissists and engage with everyone else.
When a feminist realizes there is a difference in men and women... Heck the ability to identify that a women even exists makes me smile. Women of the year are now (biological) men, Beauty pageants winners are men, sports winners are men, Woman of Courage award is a man, men can now have children etc. The determination that all things are the fault of a men makes me shake my head. My emotions become my truth and words are violent concepts are the mantra. Choice, unless you want to be a stay at home mother or pro life. Hypocrisy is accepted.
It doesn't matter. A woman will never ever admit to being wrong. The whole situation is laughably wrong and it's evident, however an ardent feminist would rather draw us all down into their own dark world where they are actually right, rather than just admitting that they're wrong.
Really interesting! So is the goal of bringing more men into female spheres/identities so they will then become wonderful and perfect like women are? (Sarcasm) Is it to cause chaos in the world because of polarization (like class warfare, but gender warfare)? Or is it to continue the culture of death through sterilization and lower birth rates, abortion is no longer enough?
d
Yes, let's focus on how effeminism is no longer helping women, rather that focusing on how it either perpetuated or created all of the current deficiencies in fundamental male human rights. 🙄
Here's a basic list of what Chris has avoided talking about (these are negative rights, not positive rights like education, work, and welfare which males are also lacking equality in):
Right to Life (Bodily/Sexual Integrity)
- non-consensual circumcision
- forced military conscription
- no right to domestic self-defense against wmn
Criminal/Civil Courts
- Presumed guilt, double jeopardy, and accuser anonymity for college and workplace sxl harassment/assault allegations.
- Privacy/anonymity for accuser, publicity for accused; no punishment for accuser if proven to be false.
- Little/no protection from physical violence, sxl assault, or grape by a wmn.
- Automatically guilty w/no conviction, evidence, or charges required for DV accusations (Duluth model).
- Extreme gendered gaps in rates of arrest, prosecution, conviction, incarceration, and registration.
- Extreme gendered gaps in lengths of incarceration and registration.
Family/Domestic Courts
No reproductive rights:
- pregnancy concealment (man is unaware he conceived)
- pregnancy entrapment (fraudulent conception)
- paternity deception (illegitimate conception)
No parental rights:
- no right to a financial abortion
- no legal say in physical abortion
- no legal say in adoption
- extreme child custody gap
No property rights:
- paternity fraud
- extortionate child support
- extortionate spousal support (alimony/palimony)
- immediate, forced, and permanent eviction of man w/total property transfer to wmn after DV accusations (via protracted restraining orders).
🎯🎯
Mgtow
Thanks a million moozata!! I'm going to copy and treasure your super concise list.
This is why men will continue to drop out in large numbers. The system will never change, so men will just continue to not feed it their labor, wealth, time, or anything else if they can avoid it.
Men will go minimalist, and that will leave less for the taxman and corporate overlords to take. The real reason gaming scares the elite is because gaming is a much cheaper hobby than most typical male hobbies. Therefore, men who lived for those other hobbies were more productive for the system that hates them.
There were always men who dropped out, they often did so and went golfing, fishing, hunting, and riding loud motorcycles.
Completely agree.
Under English Common law for over 500 years, the reason a woman takes her husbands surname is because she is his next of kin legally, the first heir of his entire estate. That is never acknowledged by most modern people. ** edit, women were not first heir, it was her children. this being said for some 300 years 15th-18th century just over 25% of estates and assets passed on in inheritance were received by women.
Exactly, I wonder why no one mentions that?
Makes sense since men are more likely to die first before the wife for all sorts of reasons.
That's interesting. I never knew that was the reason why.
@@hunterbidensaidslesion1356 One of many, but a major legal provision for property rights that has long existed and is still reflected in todays family court system.
That doesn't make any sense. Women couldn't own property, even if her husband died. She always had to have a guardian to manage it for her. Women took the man's name because of coverture. Wives were chattel and made invisible by law under their husbands.
It seems to me that things have improved for women who don't want children, and worse for those that do. Almost impossible for women these days to stay home to raise children unless their husbands are high earners. Also, society doesn't reward women for staying home...they're looked down upon for not financially contributing to the household, social security benefits and future job opportunities are negatively affected. If women have children and also work outside the home, childcare costs and the toll it takes on family members and marriages (due to stress caused by the double duty) is a major contributor to poor mental health and divorce.
It’s deliberate part of the depopulation movement. Kids are not being taught reality. So as they get deliberately mixed up by teachers part of the alphabet community.
All this stuff is caused by living too comfortably. All our minor issues get amplified. And our real problems get pushed to absurd difficulty.
Grim, feminism isn’t just about depopulation, it’s predominantly about the destruction of the nuclear family, and replacing patriarchy with matriarchy. This is also called cultural Marxism.
as brutal as this may sound the world lacks wars. if they would be wars they would be less population on this planet.
@@mysteriousman4966 That is one of the sickest and most deranged comments I have ever read on TH-cam. You seriously need help dude!
“We should leave men alone and allow them to form their own spaces”
I like your points, there are more to add imo. However who said you get to allow men to form spaces? I don’t recall giving up my authority to any woman.
Look around, they’ve already taken it. SJW feminists from the radical left are controlling politics and the way institutions work. You were probably being sarcastic but just sayin’ lol
You know… feminists complaining that men don’t allow them to join their hobbies and clubs for fear of being left out. There was a whole thing about it. That’s what the journalists accused the gamers in GamerGate of doing.
Boy Scouts man
Even as a man, I can understand what she's saying about birth control. I started taking finasteride this Monday to help with hair loss, and I had to stop taking it by Thursday because it was giving me noticeable side effects after only a few days. I couldn't even go a week on a drug that significantly affected my hormones; I can scarcely imagine what the pill must do to women.
I was going to try that when I was 23 and first starting to loose my hair, but after being told it "could" make me infertile, I said fuck that and would rather just go bald. Didnt even know it could fuck up my hormones.
@@joshuakhaos4451 did you get it from keeps also? i took one look at the label after they sent me my first batch and noped right the fuck out
@@007kingifrit No, this was before Keeps was a thing. It was the older drug they had that wasnt Rogain. Either way, Once I heard it may make me infertile, I decided going and being bald is far preferable and less shameful. Ive trained myself to not look at my head from the eyes up. and I gauge whether its time for a hair cut based on if I can get a good fistful of my hair.
I honestly hate it so much, but I'll take balding any day over possibly going infertile or having my hormones fucked up. I'm already horny as hell to the point it doesnt even register anymore. I dont need to have hormone instability and live with that mess.
I can tell you, my period stopped functioning at 28 for about 5 years. Not 100percent it was definitely the pill but otherwise I am healthy so I'm guessing it was related, the only other thing that might have contributed could have been the HPV vaccine. Thankfully it came back at 33 and I had my son around then. But it was 5 long years not really knowing what was going on. I am since rather vocal about the dangers of hormone affecting medication.
Chris, you are fast becoming one of my favourite podcast hosts. :)
How you interact with in depth knowledge/humour/experience and reasoning … by listening as they get time to speak, explaining their viewpoints is a much like a work of art.
A Masterclass in productive dialogue.
Well done my friend.
Lex Fridman is brilliant interviewer, as he hosts more guests of varying sides of debates.
I would love to see you interview brilliant liberals or progressives to see what those interactions would look like.
Maybe these are uncomfortable with long form discussions on your show or perhaps your audience wouldn’t be interested in hearing them if they did.
From my perspective its seems like the only thing holding you back from becoming globally influential for all people to tune in and learn.
Thanks for all your hard work.
Take care ,
Jeremy
Mary is a great thinker. Well done on this interview.
She hit the wall and then found the truth
Funny how they always get more reasonable after they become undesirable. It's always a pathetic attempt to save face to hook a simp before their remaining years are spent with cats in a dingy apartment.
Get a brain BEFORE you're a liability, and I might give you some credit. "Logical" ice queens are pathetic.
Exactly
Oh man who would've thought following an angry repressed lesbian who wanted the death of the family and a marxist world would make everyone miserable, especially women? Feminism was never meant to "help" women. We're pretty close to Simone De Beauvoir's world. Hope you liked the end result.
Simone's writings are actually frightening. I've read them. And much of the fembots these days STILL quote her insane ramblings. No surprise why we're here.
Who's Simone De Beauvoir?
100%. Feminism was always about enslaving humanity. All of Marxism is.
@@LordHerek She wrote an influential book 'The Second Sex'. It's free online. It's pretty scary stuff. Clearly, modern day feminism rips pages out of her book. And she ripped pages out of Karl Marx. It's all in there.
@@LordHerek It's other name is The Feminist Bible to add onto what James said. He kind of undersold its influence. Lots of false talking points came out of it.
That was an astonishingly great episode!
Time to spam it around now!
Keep up the excellent work!
I appreciate feminism. I got to enjoy my teens and 20s without tying myself to marriage like men had to do in generation past. Now in my early 30s and the wildest oats have been sewn and I'm looking at maybe starting a family. I hear the Philippines is nice.
yeah its bout v only real women left that make gd wives n mums.
Sad men you need women who are helpless
Yh! 35M London… I’m personally looking at Suriname 🇸🇷 … West is cooked 🍳.
No putting the genie 🧞♂️back in the bottle lamp now 🪔
Blaming abortion and birth control for out-of-wedlock births is nonsense. They were illegal in Latin America and out-of-wedlock births exploded to levels not seen anywhere else. Because they didn't traffick girls into marriages as early as possible like they do in patriarchal cultures. Latin America was largely matrilineal until colonization so they retained sororal alliances and men still had an expectation they weren't responsible for children they fathered.
What a fantastic talk and I so admire Chris as an interviewer. But the comments section is a bit scary. I hope that some people really paid attention and absorbed a few very important points: 1) feminism is a response to industrialization, which precipitated a loss of agency among working women - “it was justified” 2) fixing the problem does not include a walking back of all the gains women have achieved- “there is no going back” 3) Harrington is one of many feminists who treat feminism as emerging in response to a rapidly changing world. If you watched this and pumped your fist in the air because you heard a woman say that feminism got it wrong, please note that social change is not the linear process we are taught it school. Listen with compassion. It is not wrong to want to be free.
This whole transhumanism idea makes me nauseous. Being so distanced from your biology, your physical body is a mental illness.
Either it never did, or it still is, but just not perception people were deceived with. (Depending on how you want to look at that, and word it.)
""" Feminism: The control and domination of other [lesser] women. (The hatred of men/males ["misandry"] is merely an enticement. -- Feminism is in of itself the pinnacle of "misogyny." """
Crowned with misanthropy and a eugenical sceptre.
Something hides behind it.
@@Cpruett No... not the most affected... just the most recent... since it hit men and children back in the 70's... at least.
That doesn't change the fact that modern feminism DOES oppress most women, and is, by far, the largest single and most dangerous enemy that women have.
THINK about it...
Do you really think that men (in general/on average) are "out to get" women?
Are children?
The law?
The courts?
On the other hand...
Who tells women that they OUGHT TO BE AFRAID (fear-mongering) of all men?
Who tells women to be afraid of a certain "culture" on campuses... more fear-mongering?
Who tells women that there's this huge wage gap (which is a lie, and has been for a long time)?
Who tells women there's this glass ceiling?
Who tells women that there's this evil enemy out to get them, called "The Patriarchy"?
Who is pushing to let biological men compete in women's sports, go into their showers and locker rooms, take away their athletic scholarships... and trying to "cancel" J K Rowling (that was a hint)?
Modern feminism really IS the "systemic oppression"... of most women, as well as men.
I'm a man myself.
I'm tired of being blamed for crap I never did, never had a part in, including crap that was more than 100 years before I was even born.
IMO, men can't/won't stop this crap... only women can do it.
Thus, the only way to stop this is to point it out to women so that they and their army of simps can change it.
The idea that women were horribly oppressed throughout the ages, even to the point of calling it chattel slavery, is ridiculous. Marriage was always designed to protect women. It might not always have been a walk in the park, but you can say the same about men. Struggling is a HUMAN condition.
Thank you for saying what I have been thinking for a long time but couldn't put into words.
I think the discussion at around 1:28:00 about men losing something when there are no male only social spaces when growing up was interesting. I was a member of the Boys' Brigade when I was younger. Its organisation clearly owed a lot to the military. Discipline was a significant aspect of its ethos. Obviously there were adults around but a lot of the actual enforcement was done by the boys. They were aged 12-17. The older boys would be corporals and sergeants. The boys were organised into squads. The squads competed against each other in many aspects of the activities. There was an inspection at the start of the evening, and if you were one of the younger boys , your sergeant or corporal would quickly check to ensure your kit and uniform was properly done and you would not lose his squad marks. This kind of socialization among peers, learning to fit in, to do what was expected of you, to break rules but understand that there were consequences for doing so, to put yourself out for the benefit of others was an important part of my youth. It is not just your parents and other adults forming you, it is a much wider group
Yup, i’m 21 y/o but even i didn’t get to experience any of this. I was raised mostly by my mom and saw my dad in the summers. I feel like i missed a key part of development and i’ve even strongly considered joining the military just so i can learn discipline and some skills. Man skills if you will. It’s a terrible disservice being done to young boys just to pander and cater to women’s feelings. This is why women used to have less rights than men, men knew that women and power don’t go together. They’ll destroy everything and every space under the guise of “compassion” and “empathy” when reality it’s immense social pressure and, ultimately, force. Not saying we should go back but i get where they were coming from now. Women don’t know when enough is enough they want it all to be their way and their way only. Toxic femininity is a good word for it
Boy Scouts was a big part of my childhood. From 8-15. Learned to smoke cigarettes at scout camp😂😂. Honestly tho. Boys need good men around to become good men. I was given that and I'm thankful.
Most happy marriages involve women who care about their husbands, and their husbands love them deeply because of it. In other words, it’s not about competition or division of power.
I know it’s a lovely feeling to be loved and also to love… but are you saying the primary reason men love women is because… the women love them? That would imply that they don’t love the women in and of themselves, only that they love being loved
I think it's more like marriage is happy because both parties have respect for each other. Love is wishy-washy but self-fulfilling if the relationship is overall positive. People fall out of love as soon as the relationship becomes stressed, ie financially, romantically, faithfully and ultimately when the respect for each other is lost the love has evaporated and it becomes rather unlikely that the marriage can be recovered. Not disagreeing with you in that caring for each other is really just a component within having respect for each other. There is simply more to it.
Great episode.
I think the there's no free lunch is really evident here.
But having these discussions can lead to figuring out a better way ahead.
There isn't a "better" way ahead. Every action will benefit some and hurt others. That's just how life goes
@@monty5961 minimizing the amount of destruction to society would be the “better” option. He did not say best or perfect, he said better. Yall always have a problem with something
This discussion around the Psycho-Social aspects of the current male/female dynamic and concurrent intersection with the mating crisis ignores the basic economic and time factors that impede young people from EVER creating their own family. People are working longer and longer for relatively less money. Many people are getting to their 40s before they feel financially secure enough to think about starting a family, by which stage they are physically unable to conceive or emotionally unprepared for even creating a fruitful relationship. The discussion looked like 2 well off people talking about issues that are only relevant to a small section of society.
Absolutely. Some conservatives mourn the lack of 1950s birth rates, but there are some conditions that the economics don't support.
Back then:
1. People could graduate HS, get a job, and ascend the corporate ladder by being a good worker. Now people get stuck at the bottom, or maybe they can rise if they get some bullshit degree that costs $30,000.
2. A house was about 5 years pay. They were made as places to live, not as devices for investment firms to manipulate. Don't try to convince conservatives to tell investment firms to act, that would be a hard socialist act and make the USA go the way of the reds!
3. Immigration wasn't as rapid, so it didn't affect supply and demand for labor and homes as much. That's great for laborers, but not shareholders, robber barons, and bankers. Also, it didn't enable businesses to go and have a bunch of scab laborers to break unions.
It's easy for conservatives to complain about "Declining Judeo-Christian morals" but don't dare say anything else that enabled the baby boom.
Nearly all of our ancestors had it far worse and managed to have kids. The post WW2 years were an exceptional blip in human history mostly caused by the dumb luck of US geopolitical positioning. The US boom is largely due to it being the only country and industrial base not completely devastated by WW2 & it enforcing a global trade order ever since. That advantage has steadily slipped away, and unless the world goes to war again, it isn't likely to come back. We may be reverting to the mean. Which is a world in which we must make do with less, and older norms are likely to make a come back.
The welfare state invalidates monetary hesistance in regard to children. Even if the welfare state didn’t exist, people have kids all the time without ever having a plan, and making it work somehow, single parent or double.
This is the first time listening to Mary Harrington and I have just purchased Feminism Against Progress! Thank you both 👏
1:03:33. She talks about women being given the pill at 15 and were on it for a decade, having been told it’s good for you, and there they were without sex drive, skewing their hormonal system, and packing on weight, and screwing with the hormones in their brains, bringing on depression. “What have you done to me?” is what, she said, women are asking after they get OFF the pill having been on it since TEEN years. OMG. I had no idea this was all happening.
there's also evidence it changes choice of partners slightly to less masculine men
@@priapulida I remember that convo on another podcast a few months ago. Pretty crazy.
It is a thing. Check out Chris' interview with Sarah Hill. That interview is primarily on that topic.
It’s a very real issue that is not fashionable to discuss. A very significant number of Women are messed up by the pill. It doesn’t matter if it’s only 1-5%, when every single person in a particular population gets the treatment then that’s a huge number. It isn’t discussed just like abortion stats because the morality of choice is quite ugly.
Also Derek from more plates more dates goes into the chemical ingredients of birth control, it's a steroid and how it literally is female castration.
If sex is a commodity like the feminists want then why aren't we allowed to put things like sexual favors into employment contracts? If sex work is totally fine why wouldn't it be okay to include sex as part of the duties an employee must engage in?
Don't bother looking for logic where there is none.
That would require them to stand on principle, leftist belief systems like feminism don't do that. They pick and choose if something is applicable based on whether it's beneficial or not for the scenario at play.
Thats a really dumb question.
You might as well ask why your carpenter isn't willing to do veterinary work on your dog. It's two different jobs.
@@Opal5674 That thing that just flew over your head was the point.
Technically, you only need sex to procreate. You are asking for someone to be your 'f*ck toy' is what you are saying
This was a breath of fresh air, I do so hope more people listen to this women, I doubt it, but I still hope.
I've learned a lot about life and work both before and after having a child. You can work for people who don't care anything about you (you are fully replaceable), or you can work for people who love and appreciate you (you are irreplaceable). Or you can do both. But life is far more meaningful when you work to make life better for people who truly care about you.
55:11 becoming a mother did almost kill me. It also changed everything I thought I knew about what I wanted in life. All priorities shifted.
For the better, or?
A really frustrating aspect of this video is how she correctly identifies all these problems that those on the left have caused from choices they made, that people on the right said they shouldn't do because it would cause problems and disrupt things, yet she still thinks "My inner lefty worries about humans being comodified into body parts for sale etc etc." as if that's something the right isn't also worried about. It's incredibly frustrating that even people with this much awareness of our modern problems STILL can't let go of being partisan and denying their opponents had any point at all.
I appreciate Ms. Harrington doing the hard work of researching historic realities between the sexes & speaking to liberal/left leaning individuals.
One aspect that I disagree with is her wholesale rejection of hormonal BC. She noted that from the onset Feminism was a product of middle/upper class women who sought additional cultural/legal/etc. changes b/c they had the leisure time that poor/working class women didn't. It also resulted in policies that favored the well off while destabilizing the lower classes.
It seems that Ms. Harrington has the same problem as prior middle/upper class women did when advocating for removing hormonal BC. Non hormonal BC methods like condoms & diaphragms exited prior to hormonal BC yet they were not widely adopted. Not all women particularly those who in the lower end of the econ spectrum have full autonomy/power in forcing a partner/spouse to use alternate BC methods. By removing hormonal BC, disadvantaged women will have unplanned/unwanted pregnancies.
It appears as if Hormonal BC is being demoinzed as all encompassing evil against women & the major cause of women's woes. I find this discourse one sided ignoring that the physical/emotional/etc ills of any one human individual is likely multivariate.
I do not have to belong to any feminist organization to know that I am a woman .
You have your basic human rights and autonomy due to feminism.
Actually, no. You have your basic freedom because men provide it. Of that wasn't the case you wouldn't have had to fight for it. The roles would be reversed.
This is one of the best interviews, so far. A really insightful guest. Thank you.
I have never felt downtrodden & oppressed by being a home-based wife & mother. I have felt free to organise my own time. Going into work & working for a boss doing
generally boring work, just doesn't sound appealing. You may wonder about money. We certainly had a lot less of it but adjusted our life to that. We had few
holidays, no luxuries etc but then, none of that matters. I have felt productive by being a maker.
Uh huh. Very feminine name there Marty.
I'm a single mom working. I make about 30k a year and yet still take my son on vacations and I own my own home I decorate very nicely and 3 day weekends. I don't have to worry about being humiliated when aqn I depend on hits his midlife crisis and cheats on me like so many other women I've known
@@Opal5674 We have 4 children so perhaps that makes a difference. My husband & I are still togther too. We have grand children & great grand children. I often wonder how career women cope with retirement...
@@marty9011 Ah. well you are an elder.
The truth is there are absolutely not enough good reliable men around for every woman and everyone isn't guaranteed to have healthy children who will be able to take care of themselves so I work to give my son a leg up in this world so he doesn't have to do everything from ground uo and struggle. My son will have a house I will be able to give him because he has autism and I'm not sure if he will be able to work.
People who have a ton of kids and don't have hardly any money set their kids up for a rough time.
@@Opal5674 there's as many good men as there are good women...
@@monty5961 Not likely
A society structured around radical individualism is doomed to failure even without feminism.
Interesting comment...thanks.
Something my grandmother used to say to me often, "men might be the head of the house hold, but the woman is the neck and she can turn that head, any way she wants." This has stuck with me and while many might read manipulation into this, I always read this as women, having a quiet power that was worth far more than modern day society gives us credit for. You don't need a loud voice when you have influence. We've lost that influence in return for a very loud voice and I am not particularly fond of loud noises.
The radical changes on all fronts a human goes through in their 20's may be often understated. We sort of view them as full regular adults but my most radical transitions happened within that age. I had these deep convictions that were blown away by my late 20's and now I'd not come close to hold the same beliefs I did then now at 36. For me it was wise to not go all in about relaying my beliefs then because they didn't feel complete. I didn't start having real grounded views that I could fill out and discuss fully and intelligently until my late 20s. We all have this "group identity" phase then this "individuation phase" where we get a little more isolated and see the "what" of us instead of the "who" and that really fill us out. We come out the other end more full people.
Edit - I like this guest btw the way she speaks with this sure fluidity signals to me she's on the creative cutting edge of the subjects she's talking about navigating new ground as she goes. I had great parents and my relationship with women has always been solid. I've always viewed women as people for whom some of them evoke romantic sparks. When I was young this was more of this dream like state. The girl I liked existed as this almost mystical creature. Now it's the general way a woman exists and the way our personalities and chemistry does or doesn't line up. To me women have always been fellow humans who are a bit more special. I've always protected the women I affiliate with without diminishing their sense of agency. Life rarely throws me situations where I truly have to spring into action in a situation that heavily favors a man acting instead of a woman. In my world men and women are equal and the roles we take on either naturally happen or we have a chat of it. Cheers great vid.
Like and agree with your comment, wish you and your woman all the best!
i was the primary care taker raising my daughter and it was the hardest thing i've ever done. i've run marathons, been in the military, and divorced twice. difficulty is subjective. if being the primary care taker of a child was easy for this woman, she must have had a lots of money and people helping her.
Mary Harrington dropping another cluster of truth bombs, what a magnificent guest.
Would love to see a conversation between the wonderful Mary Harrington and the amazing Camille Paglia. I think there are some insights buried there….
Especially since Camille Paglia hates uppper middle class feminists 'with their soft little voices and their self esteem issues' and their inablity to say no. Would be hilarious.
It’s always the ones I don’t think are going to be that good are more life changing. Great speaker. Great questions
I'm from the same political background and have also come to question Progress as a Good. More laws and a bigger Nanny State doesn't mean a better life. We (lapsed Progressives) have finally come to that point that we don't want government to mediate our relationships
"We`re sort of finished industrializing the world and we`ve pretty much run out of places to conolize and natural resources to exploit [...] and that relentless kind of exploratory energy hasnt stopped and whats its done instead is its turned inwards towards colozing the human body (medical advances) and soul (digital technology --> domain of ideas and sociality)"
wonder who this we is, and why it regulates disruptive tech to the hegemony.
Yes and those women had interesting careers, whilst poor women in dead end jobs would probably prefer to be stay at home mothers
The basic principle of women wanting representation in public life isnt just from middle class women. Working class women wanted it too, and there are many examples of this from the Leveller movement back in the 17th century to women in WWI organising rent strikes. The critical point for men and women is really when we decided to pay MPs a salary, and making it possible for people from the working classes to stand for parliament...women then won the vote and we now have working class women in Parliament and Parliament only just coming to terms with accommodating the needs of pregnant and breastfeeding women. It's taken hundreds of years! I dont want to live in a society that models itself without understanding what half of the society needs by sex and more half needs in terms of economic status and opportunity. No one should have to live under laws and policies that they have not had an opportunity to influence.
For 50+ years women have exclusively controlled sex, pregnancy, and childbirth. The Lady Harrington expresses her satisfaction with that. Women also control their husband's health, wealth, and financial obligation. She doesn't mention that.
Yeah completely disregards that women have ALL of the control now and that it might be considered slavery by most people.
Haha!! Why would she mention that.
That's what women want ,the total control of men.
Hate to break it to you but women and children have always tamed men. That’s how we have civilization. Because men understand they need to protect and provide for their families in a very cruel world that would harm their own kin if they don’t. That is the burden that men carry. They know that the world is cruel and harsh. That’s what loving your wife and kids is about.
@@imperator8657 Then they are not attracted to men they control.
No. Men build civilization. Women have never had anything to do with it@@umiluv
I really tend to feel like all the feminists who whinge and moan about how few female CEO’s, MP’s etc. there are, have zero idea about what is actually required of a CEO. If you’re a CEO, AND you’re actually doing a good job, the likelihood that you have anything resembling a decent social life is next to zero. You may possibly be able to balance family and work somewhat reasonably… if you work very very hard at it. But most don’t.
No way am I giving up my time at home with my kids, husband and extended family to work in a company where everyone, at best sucks up your ass all day, and at worst passively or openly despises you, without appreciating any of the work you do lol
Don’t get me wrong… I’m chipping away slowly at my post grad, so I can carve out some type of career when my kids head off to school and leave home. I’m therefore, super thankful that the market place has been opened up to women.
But to measure our success with the same measuring stick as we measure men’s career success is plain stupid.
Just as men’s and women’s role in the family look different…. So too will our roles likely look in the workplace.
This is an interesting point. It seems that the feminists are demanding massive economic benefit with very little effort on their part. CEO fathers are absent. They have to be. The top private schools are well resourced because the CEOs know that they aren’t raising their kids, the school is. Sadly, the feminists also know who is raising the poorest kids and they have taken over those spaces. But they won’t get those easy economic benefits…
Sounds like you've been listening to Jordan Peterson. He has made this same exact point many times.
@@hv3115 I have :) I quite like JP.
I also have a few uncles who started and run medium size businesses, and my parents ran our dairy farm up until a couple of years ago.
My whole childhood, and even now people in our local area love to throw darts at my family for being ‘privileged’.
And look, we are incredibly blessed… and I see that other people struggle and work just as hard… only to make ends meet. So I’m not taking that away from anyone.
But by and large, the people who whinged, had an air of entitlement about them. As though they deserved the resources my family had worked for as much, or more than my family did. And I know for a fact, that these people would be entirely unwilling to wake up at 3am to go down to the factory because the fridges turned off, or a cow was struggling to birth. They wouldn’t cope trudging through cow shit at 4am on below freezing mornings.
Mostly, the people who complained, wanted all the perks of being a business owner, or owning land… but would be entirely unwilling to sacrifice what my family have sacrificed to get us where we are.
Anyway, I just notice a very similar arrogance, entitlement and ignorance in the feminist narrative that proclaims that, the mere fact that there are not an equal number of women in desirable positions as there are men, is pure evidence of sexism.
It’s overly simplistic, and it actually undermines the reality of how difficult and demanding motherhood is, and it’s validity as a valuable life course for women.
This was an excellent critical analysis of the legitimacy of feminism, particularly the discussion of history and technology. Thinking about the “war on relationship between mother and baby” - I too had nightmares in my 20’s about an unwanted pregnancy. Social atomism is the foundation for much more than fertility, pregnancy and sexual relationship. In my business management Ph.D I read an article by Granovetter circa 1990’s that discussed the embeddedness of businesses in society and economy and the embeddedness of the individual within society, economy and work. I think that this embeddedness concept is the flip side of this discussion. We are a society of individuals who have to figure out how to coordinate/unify enough to work together, live together within the society and economy and perpetuate ourselves and our species for the future. It appears to me that we’re not doing very well. As I look at our peculiar world and society I find that I agree with much of this discussion, which is frightening. The notion that, as feminists, we’ve claimed our freedoms only to lose that freedom to a commercial market was hard to accept. I’ve never contemplated how relationships, sex, dating, and being a ‘person’ has become a form of “merchandising.” This is a great source of food for thought.
“Freedom” here comes across as a goalpost that moves itself no matter what, it sounds like an “I’ll be happy when…” mentality.
Only when society is totally and completely falling apart will some women come up with more intelligent ideas regarding love, sex and marriage. Too little, too late.
Marry Harrington is a G. Great guests, Chris.
29:30 Douglas Murray calls male feminists of this kind "cuttlefish": Cuttlefish, a member of the mollusk family, disguise themselves as half-male, half-female to get mates
This is a book I need to buy for my young daughters
Please do. The schools are doing their best to indoctrinate children starting from Kindergarten.
Why? You aren't capable of having these thoughts yourself and conveying them accordingly? Amazes me how people wait for some stranger to teach them wisdom they should have learnt either in their own families or figured out themselves. Don't let me discourage you from buying madam's books, though.
Thanks for killing the internet with 3rd way feminism really thankful for that. BANNING alcohol wasn’t enough had to go after feeling on the internet
That's the irony of feminists using terms like "fragile masculinity". I can't think of a single male space that has gotten tougher once women were incorporated into it. Look at what has happened to the workplace.
My daughter was a preemie and we had to.stay in the "care by parent" suite, which is a mini "apartment" in the hospital for new parents to be the main caregiver for their preemie. So you can imagine that there's always a baby crying in the unit but each mom there, first time moms btw, could tell the difference between cries. Each mom could feel it inside when it was their baby crying and then going to tend to their baby. It's amazing. All the cries sound the same. It's not like they have different voices as newborns, but your body just knows your child. They cry, and your heart breaks. You feel your chest tingle, and there is a deep immediate need to get to the baby, and you're happy to do it. It feels like magic. A beautiful wonderful magic. To feed your child from your own body with food your body made for that child. People have it all wrong. The babies aren't the problem. We are the problem.
👏👏👏 please don’t be afraid to speak up and let these radical feminists know they’re being ridiculous. We need help from women because they definitely won’t listen to men. They’re raging narcissists believing this crap
I raise my first generation feminist glass to you Mary! You have all the facts and are spot on the truth. The world needs more women and mothers of your educated analysis. Rights of women went off track in the 80s and has been spiraling down since. Balance is crucial to commerce and ethics. BTW you are in the majority of fearless women that live outside the matrix. Thank goodness you have a brain that thinks for yourself with healthy empathy for humanity. Your book and your voice will change the world for the better. Thank you for sharing. Thank you Chris for the interview. 🇺🇲😉👏
That's a delusion. First wave feminism included smashing bar windows and demanding chastity for men.
Older ladies are generally similar in thought. My mum is in her 60s and she really only followed feminism up to the 2nd wave, so she sees herself as a feminist. But what she believes is far from what feminism has become now.
@@bendakstarkiller3407 Your mum is a nonce supporter.
I was honestly pretty disgusted hearing Chris talk about his encounter with the gender affirming surgeon and his desire to want to go meet this person again. When working in healthcare, I noticed many doctors are just smart people who will do anything for money, except I found them to be terrible people and stopped working in healthcare.
That doctor is an infallible altruist who can do no wrong, just like a lot of people in the medical profession. I regret not joining the medical profession not because of the cash but because of the moral body shield it gives you.
"The basic unit of production (and I would add society) is the household (family)."
What an outstanding conversation. I understand the issues so much more fully for listening to it. Thank you.
Understanding How Prehistoric Female Mating Strategies Impact Today's Dating Environment
(The Consequences of unrestricted Female Nature)
(How the pill and abortion on demand allowed women to act with impunity and naturally causes the 80/20 rule.)
I wanted to share some of my thoughts on prehistoric evolutionary mating strategies and how they’re impacting us today, especially since the 1960s.
Remember, civilized society is built on laws that restrict base male nature. There are no laws to restrict base female nature. Interesting right?
Prior to the pill, no fault divorce and abortion on demand, base female nature was kept in check with agreed upon secular and religious rules. There were very specific societal penalties for engaging in base female cavewoman behaviors. Men could also strike women.
But since the 1960s, women’s base female cavewoman nature has been allowed to run rampant without restriction or penalties. This is even more extreme than during prehistoric times as modern day women cannot be struck by a man. Females today can act with impunity in the dating marketplace. Women can verbally abuse and contradict men without fear of physical retribution.
Only what I described in the last paragraph was needed to unleash base female cavewoman nature on the world. Feminism doesn't have much to do with what is happening today between men and women. I think talking about feminism wastes alot of time and adds unnecessary layers to this. Even if no "movement" was started, we would still be in the same position we are today.
We can all agree that unrestricted base evolutionary male nature would bring on the destruction of civilized society. Imagine if murder, assault, theft, and sexual assault were no longer illegal.
Conversely then, wouldn’t it make sense that unrestricted evolutionary female nature could do the same? Well since the 1960s, this worst case scenario has been playing out.
This next line is the most important idea in my theory.
A woman's evolutionary presumption is that a committed male provider will be lost at any time, and a replacement may be needed immediately to provide for her and her children.
Prior to a commitment from (usually) an alpha male, a female will do all she can to get him to commit. She will feel more in love than she ever did and she will let that alpha male know he can have her without restriction.
Most alpha males will not commit, leaving millions of alpha widows. This leaves many women ruined for finding a future husband as very few men can compete with the alpha man she lost.
Another important point is that, cavewomen would never have uncommitted sex. She would find an alpha and only give herself to him. The only time a cavewoman would have uncommitted sex is during an assault.
There were very few alpha widows during prehistoric times as cavemen had harems and concubines.
So today, women are pushed to be complicit in their own sexual assaults from a very young age.
Cavemen had a low life expectancy. In fact, a cavewoman needed to assume that her caveman husband would not be coming back at the end of the day.
This high rate of male mortality highly influenced women’s reproductive strategies during prehistoric times.
So, if we think about high caveman mortality in terms of the survival of our species, what would be the best emotional strategy for a cavewoman to have?
A - Would it have been better to be completely in love and deeply attached to her cave husband or
B - Would it have been better to have a very surface, unemotional relationship, that could be discarded quickly without grief and without feeling trauma?
Of course, the cavewoman that could easily detach from her now dead caveman husband and quickly obtain another provider / protector was more likely to survive.
Most importantly her existing children were more likely to survive.
So, survival of the fittest means, the 2nd, emotionally detached option, had to rule the day to get us here.
In order to further the species, cavewomen, once they did have a commitment from a caveman, were built to emotionally detach from that man as soon as possible and only maintain superficial affections to keep her caveman providing.
There was no evolutionary advantage for a cavewoman to have a deep committed love for a caveman.
Most women grieve very little when a long term relationship is over and men are devastated.
Why is that? Remember, cavemen had to have the opposite emotional strategy and commitment to cavewomen. They needed to put their lives on the line to take care of that cavewoman for as long as they lived to make sure that their children, or genetic lineage, were taken care of. Cavemen had to have the deepest blind love for a cavewoman to the point he would give his life because she was the main source of care and nutrition for his seed.
So caveman mating strategies valued female lives above their own.
Cavewomen never had to risk their lives for their cavemen. Cavemen were disposable, just as modern men are. There is no evolutionary benefit for a woman to have a deep and committed emotional love for a man at the level a man has for a woman.
Cavewomen never valued a caveman's life above theirs.
So now it is even more understandable why women start 80% of divorces. From the moment they have locked down a good provider, they are biologically wired to begin to look for provider-alternates or as we like to call them sometimes, orbiters, while men are wired to provide blindly for that woman even if it kills them.
Cavemen’s main focus was to provide for the mother who then tended to the children. This was a standard top down hierarchy with distinct separation of duties and directed loyalties.
So when a woman ends a long term relationship, she has long since lost any initial pair bonding for reasons I already described, but a man rarely loses that deep unselfish commitment.
So where does this leave us? Well hopefully armed with a deeper understanding.
I believe with education, that base female cavewoman nature can be curbed just as male nature has been curbed for eons.
We have laws to suppress base male caveman behaviors. But they can’t be used to curb base female cavewoman behaviors.
But, unless they are curbed, as they were before 1960, society’s decline will continue exponentially.
very poignant, imagine recommending Jane Austin, failing to realize that both her choices were mountains above her station both being noble and her being poor and not even being in line, with her unwed older sister ahead in relation to marriage, its fiction not reality otherwise my reality in life is fighting alien monsters on Alpha sigma 17, imagine basing my life around that. As far as society, i wouldnt worry that was set in the 1930's, a bigger issue would be mustard gas and invention of nitrogen fixing, birth pill is one of 10,000's of secondary if not tertiary problems to affix said disaster track