For the Ruststalkers' Accelerant Agent: It's not just fighting twice, it's the fact that you can do it without spending an AP. That means even if you just want to fight once, you can still do a mission action or pick up after you eliminate a target squatting on an objective.
I would say always take the infiltrators bc they have a gun. Sometimes you won’t always be able to fight but you always get more chances to shoot. I also think for ITD it’s still better to run only vanguard and infiltrators. So far they have worked really well for me.
dont sleep on infil princeps. concealed position + his natural mission action for 1 less ap can be huge to score mission actions and tacops early (recon) + block key areas for teams with foreward deployment, like kommandos and such when being defender. also, I like the 3 dashes for the ranger (gunners) sometimes. i stopped playing them for awhile but now without the defuffs I feel I want to try them again.
But then you are forced to drop your alpha for a shock trooper. I would keep the alpha in the mix but just give this concealed position infiltrator a serv-skull. 2ep trade to keep the alpha on the team
thanks for the vid man! i went infiltrator princeps leader, an extra infiltrator , 3 rust stalkers, vanguard diktat and an extra basic vanguard shocktrooper. the rest are rangers and I took the Arquebus.
Loved the video, and love me some Ad Mech. Already had Hunter Clade before the buffs and will love being able to play them competitively now. One critique I'll leave about your final line up: The leader can only take a power weapon with the master-crafted radium pistol. The play is still to take the arc pistol most of the time and pair it with the taser goad.
@@TabletopImpulse I really don't get why people prefer the taser goad to the maul... When I run the maths, the maul gives you better average damages against GEq and MEq when you attack (a charge situation), and the same average damage received if you defend (situation of being charged, or just being like a puddle of glue to stuck down an ennemy operative). Is there something I am missing here ?
I too am not sure why people would take the taser goad. Is there a situation where stun is excellent? Arc maul and phosphor blaster seem like the pick for me
i found the rustalkers double fight so useful against horde kill teams, just today i played against some kriegs who clumped up a bit, and with only 2 rustalkers i took down 4 operatives in 2 activations! I do think theres a case to be made for infiltrators too, their neurostatic interference completely shuts down teams like pathfinders who gain a lot of rerolls thanks to markerlight, relentless from gun drones, and buffs given by the recon drone. You can run one into engagement range of an enemy operative and keep him safe there for a bit as the neurostatic interference helps you take down enemies around them, and theyre strong enough in melee to hold their ground if enemy decides to fight back! both are really cool but infiltrators are def more useful if youre going for points and to support your gunners rather than straight up kills.
Feels like they have been made pretty strong now. The Concealed Position is like a weaker version of Sneaky Git from Kommandos. So you can do it twice as you only have 2 CP at that point in the game.
Isn't Concealed Position a Tactical Ploy so can only be used once per turning point? So only available to be done on one infiltrator? I just went through the core rules and the FAQ/Designer Commentary and can't find anything that allows it to be used more than once - if there is something, I'm keen to know!
@@andrewgirle3746 Yes and no. You can do it as often as you want because it takes place in the "Set up operatives step" and therefore isn't happening during a turning point. Which is what I was talking about in the video, However, if I engage my eyes and read I find the last sentence is "you can only use this tactical ploy once" thanks to Prize winning Kill Team Player Zimbad for pointing that out :p
Played a multiplayer friendly (5 mates with double size board and general chaos in charge) last night with the revised Hunter Clade. While I found it difficult to advance, the extra sicarian (an extra infiltrator with stubcarbine over my previous list) meant that I actually chewed up 4 traitor legionnaires and 2 void dancers - in a one on one game, combined with recon, these guys would do much better than previously!
My Clade team suffers from being built in KT-18 from the original starter and the Sicarian expansion box, so it’s very sub-optimal. That said, Rangers are better than you seem to think they are, and I’d never put a Vanguard on the table who’s job was to shoot without the enriched rounds. You just don’t have the volume of shots to make the low damage work otherwise. In other equipment choices Optimised Gait may well be the best equipment in the game.
Nice Video! In your sample list at the end your advice is to get a Skitarii Vanguard Alpha with Arc Pistol and Power Weapon…sadly this is not a legal setup. I would recommend Arc Pistol and Taser Goat though.
The balance dataslate says "• Ignore each Imperatives' Deprecation effect during the first Turning Point that it is active for your kill team during the battle." It's not the first turning point of the game, it's the first turning point which each different doctrine is active, so as long as you cycle through the four different doctrines in each turning point you never suffer a negative - hope this helps :)
This may have been said before - I quickly scanned the comments. I think the Vanguard Alpha cannot have an arc pistol and power weapon. It has to be radium pistol and power weapon or arc pistol and arc/maul or taser goad. I went for arc pistol and taser goad as I don't really want it in melee and the goad still has lethal 5+ and the arc pistol is another AP1 in the list.
@@TabletopImpulseno longer true, as far as I understand. Q4 2023 dataslate nerfed operative selection to a 5/5 or 7/4 skitarii/sicarian split. and 3 gunners only allowed if selecting 3 or less sicarians
Why not to use like 3 Stalkers and 2 Infiltrators or vise versa? Before Buff il used 1 stalker and 3 infi. Stalker was a scary punchbug with good defence against no ap weapons and did a good job, but now u can use 2 of them or even 3 , but you always need 2-3 infiltrators because of no rerols and recon ploys.
I begin to think you always want at least one infiltrator for the forward deployment. Perhaps you want him to be the leader as others have said, but I still think the opportunity cost is a bit high there.
Ruststalkers are really good, but you definitely want 1 infiltrator in a ton of matchups. Concealed position and a Servo Skull/Infiltrator leader allow you to get a lot of early vp without much counterplay.
Does cense bearer work on self or only other models? Guarantees ignoring wounded on stalkers that might have been hit hard and rely on getting into charge range?
For me Transuranic Arquebus is an auto include. Most of the games I've played it's deleted an enemy operative every turn. It's only down Turning Point 1 at most to get into position but after that anything it sees is under threat of being killed in one shot. Paired with Martial Protocol and Surveyor, it's a force to be reckoned with, and definitely helps taking the heat off of the rest of your team.
That's a fairly warm take. Conventional wisdom is that he's worthless and a lot of folks in my discord and others advocating a warrior over the Arquebus. I like the look of him after the balance data slate, but the wisdom of crowds Is I why I was so cagey about including him.
@@TabletopImpulse the arguebus in my opinion is just a bit tricky to use well, but teamed up with the surveyor and put in a nice concealed position you can really limit where your opponent can move their operatives to without getting shot This works with the other gunner options aswell but I found players find the arguebus stats much more intimidating
You kept mentioning the WhW tournaments, have you been to any since the new edition? I’ve managed to make it to everyone bar the most recent one. (Tickets sold out before I could grab one 🙄). But I’ve played hunter clade at all them, and always managed to do very well. Placing 8th in a four game day with three wins and one loss. Then during the recent two day team event one we placed 4th, with my Hunter clade winning 4 drawing 1 and losing 1. So the point I’m making is I never thought they were a particularly bad team as a lot of people said, this massive buff easily puts them into an S++ tier, I can see them topping out podiums easily now.
Yeah, Have been to most of the WHW Kill Team Tournaments this edition. Launch event in September, the Teams in March and the Critical Strike in June. Just missed one due to being away that Sunday. I don't think I have had the pleasure of a game though. I agree it's a massive buff. I think before the buff though there were pretty annoying to play - honest question how did you find there doctrines mechanic pre buff?
@@TabletopImpulse It’s always a fun day out. The Teams weekend was by far the best time. We played against both Can You Roll a Crit and Command Point so had some very tough but fun games. So pre-buff I would never bother with either Bulwark or Aggressor as the deprecations to movement and armour saves would be far too harsh. So I would usually start in Protecter (shooting) and then around turn 3 switch to either Conqueror (melees) or the balanced one depending on how many Sicarians were still alive. That being said, I found the whole system to be as much a drawback as it was a boon. Since the buff I have managed to play three games at my local club and I find the changes makes the team much more deep and fun to play. So that change gets a big thumbs up. The extra operative which I usually take as an extra infiltrator also pretty amazing. For Sicarians I don’t actually follow what you say in the video. I tend to take three infiltrators (including the leader) and two ruststalkers. The ruststalkers move up the board equipped with optimised gait, a single infiltrator forward deploying and then the other two following up behind them, usually using their servo skull abilities to score my recon secondaries and do mission actions. It gives your skitarii some much needed breathing room and also give you strong central board control, which in my opinion is what wins games.
You cannot combine a power weapon and an arc pistol on your vanguard alpha. You can choose power weapon ONLY with a radium pistol. That's reason an Arc Maul is better
@@TabletopImpulse Audio spikes when you do a new segment. Not that big of a problem if you know about it. Maybe it's my headset that can't handle the change in volume. Doesn't matter, keep the content coming.
@@RundOnline Apparently its a problem in power point auto leveling the volume. Lots of folks complaining about it on the MS support forums but no solutions... maybe I should reach out to Auspex Tactics...
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For the Ruststalkers' Accelerant Agent:
It's not just fighting twice, it's the fact that you can do it without spending an AP. That means even if you just want to fight once, you can still do a mission action or pick up after you eliminate a target squatting on an objective.
That is a fantastic point. Username checks out.
Fantastic video! Really helped me understand this team including the latest rules. Subscribed
Glad you enjoyed it Dan
That was a really nice evaluation of the team and the new changes. I've made some changes in my planned team after thinking about your suggestions.
Thank you Michael I'm really glad you enjoyed the video!
I would say always take the infiltrators bc they have a gun. Sometimes you won’t always be able to fight but you always get more chances to shoot. I also think for ITD it’s still better to run only vanguard and infiltrators. So far they have worked really well for me.
Interesting perspective Jank. Thanks for this. Maybe I should do some updated videos focusing on Into the Dark.
dont sleep on infil princeps. concealed position + his natural mission action for 1 less ap can be huge to score mission actions and tacops early (recon) + block key areas for teams with foreward deployment, like kommandos and such when being defender. also, I like the 3 dashes for the ranger (gunners) sometimes. i stopped playing them for awhile but now without the defuffs I feel I want to try them again.
Nice! I had not thought of that. This is a really deceptively deep team.
Concur. The Infil Princi absolutely has game.
But then you are forced to drop your alpha for a shock trooper. I would keep the alpha in the mix but just give this concealed position infiltrator a serv-skull. 2ep trade to keep the alpha on the team
@@brdgstudios1053 I think that's a very good point cheers.
thanks for the vid man!
i went infiltrator princeps leader, an extra infiltrator , 3 rust stalkers, vanguard diktat and an extra basic vanguard shocktrooper. the rest are rangers and I took the Arquebus.
Sounds good. I assume you took the Arc Rifle and Plasma Caliver as well? And a Ranger Surveyor?
@@TabletopImpulse yeeeep
Loved the video, and love me some Ad Mech. Already had Hunter Clade before the buffs and will love being able to play them competitively now.
One critique I'll leave about your final line up: The leader can only take a power weapon with the master-crafted radium pistol. The play is still to take the arc pistol most of the time and pair it with the taser goad.
Ouch, yes, I misread that. You are correct. And I agree Arc Pistol/Taser Goad.
@@TabletopImpulse I really don't get why people prefer the taser goad to the maul... When I run the maths, the maul gives you better average damages against GEq and MEq when you attack (a charge situation), and the same average damage received if you defend (situation of being charged, or just being like a puddle of glue to stuck down an ennemy operative). Is there something I am missing here ?
I too am not sure why people would take the taser goad. Is there a situation where stun is excellent? Arc maul and phosphor blaster seem like the pick for me
Your video is the most comprehensive one yet
Very kind of you to say!
i found the rustalkers double fight so useful against horde kill teams, just today i played against some kriegs who clumped up a bit, and with only 2 rustalkers i took down 4 operatives in 2 activations! I do think theres a case to be made for infiltrators too, their neurostatic interference completely shuts down teams like pathfinders who gain a lot of rerolls thanks to markerlight, relentless from gun drones, and buffs given by the recon drone. You can run one into engagement range of an enemy operative and keep him safe there for a bit as the neurostatic interference helps you take down enemies around them, and theyre strong enough in melee to hold their ground if enemy decides to fight back! both are really cool but infiltrators are def more useful if youre going for points and to support your gunners rather than straight up kills.
Great insight, thank you and I hope others find this useful!
Feels like they have been made pretty strong now.
The Concealed Position is like a weaker version of Sneaky Git from Kommandos. So you can do it twice as you only have 2 CP at that point in the game.
Yeah, that makes sense thanks.
Isn't Concealed Position a Tactical Ploy so can only be used once per turning point? So only available to be done on one infiltrator? I just went through the core rules and the FAQ/Designer Commentary and can't find anything that allows it to be used more than once - if there is something, I'm keen to know!
@@andrewgirle3746 Yes and no. You can do it as often as you want because it takes place in the "Set up operatives step" and therefore isn't happening during a turning point. Which is what I was talking about in the video, However, if I engage my eyes and read I find the last sentence is "you can only use this tactical ploy once" thanks to Prize winning Kill Team Player Zimbad for pointing that out :p
@@TabletopImpulse I was beginning to wonder if my brain invented that last sentence or if people just didn't see it
Played a multiplayer friendly (5 mates with double size board and general chaos in charge) last night with the revised Hunter Clade. While I found it difficult to advance, the extra sicarian (an extra infiltrator with stubcarbine over my previous list) meant that I actually chewed up 4 traitor legionnaires and 2 void dancers - in a one on one game, combined with recon, these guys would do much better than previously!
Multiplayer? Interesting! I think that Clade are in a good spot for sure.
@@TabletopImpulse yes, multiplayer - other guys might get together for a poker night once a week, we have a kill team night!
My Clade team suffers from being built in KT-18 from the original starter and the Sicarian expansion box, so it’s very sub-optimal. That said, Rangers are better than you seem to think they are, and I’d never put a Vanguard on the table who’s job was to shoot without the enriched rounds. You just don’t have the volume of shots to make the low damage work otherwise. In other equipment choices Optimised Gait may well be the best equipment in the game.
I do like the look of that Optimised Gait.
Nice Video! In your sample list at the end your advice is to get a Skitarii Vanguard Alpha with Arc Pistol and Power Weapon…sadly this is not a legal setup. I would recommend Arc Pistol and Taser Goat though.
xD Tazer Goat! In all seriousness you are correct.
Hey i just wanted to ask how can you ignore the negatives of doctorines aside from turn 1 more youtubers talked about it thanks for answer
The balance dataslate says "• Ignore each Imperatives' Deprecation effect during the
first Turning Point that it is active for your kill team during
the battle." It's not the first turning point of the game, it's the first turning point which each different doctrine is active, so as long as you cycle through the four different doctrines in each turning point you never suffer a negative - hope this helps :)
This may have been said before - I quickly scanned the comments.
I think the Vanguard Alpha cannot have an arc pistol and power weapon. It has to be radium pistol and power weapon or arc pistol and arc/maul or taser goad. I went for arc pistol and taser goad as I don't really want it in melee and the goad still has lethal 5+ and the arc pistol is another AP1 in the list.
It has been said, but thank you anyway :)
@@TabletopImpulse Sorry to be that person.
@@eddavies5443 No worries!!
Is this still up to date? Any changes to list building since it was posted?
This is still up to date!
@@TabletopImpulseno longer true, as far as I understand. Q4 2023 dataslate nerfed operative selection to a 5/5 or 7/4 skitarii/sicarian split. and 3 gunners only allowed if selecting 3 or less sicarians
Why not to use like 3 Stalkers and 2 Infiltrators or vise versa? Before Buff il used 1 stalker and 3 infi. Stalker was a scary punchbug with good defence against no ap weapons and did a good job, but now u can use 2 of them or even 3 , but you always need 2-3 infiltrators because of no rerols and recon ploys.
I begin to think you always want at least one infiltrator for the forward deployment. Perhaps you want him to be the leader as others have said, but I still think the opportunity cost is a bit high there.
Ruststalkers are really good, but you definitely want 1 infiltrator in a ton of matchups. Concealed position and a Servo Skull/Infiltrator leader allow you to get a lot of early vp without much counterplay.
Makes a lot of sense; I think I agree yes.
Does cense bearer work on self or only other models? Guarantees ignoring wounded on stalkers that might have been hit hard and rely on getting into charge range?
Can't see any reason it wouldent work on self!
For me Transuranic Arquebus is an auto include. Most of the games I've played it's deleted an enemy operative every turn.
It's only down Turning Point 1 at most to get into position but after that anything it sees is under threat of being killed in one shot.
Paired with Martial Protocol and Surveyor, it's a force to be reckoned with, and definitely helps taking the heat off of the rest of your team.
That's a fairly warm take. Conventional wisdom is that he's worthless and a lot of folks in my discord and others advocating a warrior over the Arquebus. I like the look of him after the balance data slate, but the wisdom of crowds Is I why I was so cagey about including him.
@@TabletopImpulse
I advocate for rule of cool over meta any day lol
@@TabletopImpulse the arguebus in my opinion is just a bit tricky to use well, but teamed up with the surveyor and put in a nice concealed position you can really limit where your opponent can move their operatives to without getting shot
This works with the other gunner options aswell but I found players find the arguebus stats much more intimidating
@@laface2361 Yeah, I can see that! Good shout.
You kept mentioning the WhW tournaments, have you been to any since the new edition? I’ve managed to make it to everyone bar the most recent one. (Tickets sold out before I could grab one 🙄). But I’ve played hunter clade at all them, and always managed to do very well. Placing 8th in a four game day with three wins and one loss. Then during the recent two day team event one we placed 4th, with my Hunter clade winning 4 drawing 1 and losing 1. So the point I’m making is I never thought they were a particularly bad team as a lot of people said, this massive buff easily puts them into an S++ tier, I can see them topping out podiums easily now.
Yeah, Have been to most of the WHW Kill Team Tournaments this edition. Launch event in September, the Teams in March and the Critical Strike in June. Just missed one due to being away that Sunday. I don't think I have had the pleasure of a game though. I agree it's a massive buff. I think before the buff though there were pretty annoying to play - honest question how did you find there doctrines mechanic pre buff?
@@TabletopImpulse It’s always a fun day out. The Teams weekend was by far the best time. We played against both Can You Roll a Crit and Command Point so had some very tough but fun games. So pre-buff I would never bother with either Bulwark or Aggressor as the deprecations to movement and armour saves would be far too harsh. So I would usually start in Protecter (shooting) and then around turn 3 switch to either Conqueror (melees) or the balanced one depending on how many Sicarians were still alive. That being said, I found the whole system to be as much a drawback as it was a boon. Since the buff I have managed to play three games at my local club and I find the changes makes the team much more deep and fun to play. So that change gets a big thumbs up. The extra operative which I usually take as an extra infiltrator also pretty amazing. For Sicarians I don’t actually follow what you say in the video. I tend to take three infiltrators (including the leader) and two ruststalkers. The ruststalkers move up the board equipped with optimised gait, a single infiltrator forward deploying and then the other two following up behind them, usually using their servo skull abilities to score my recon secondaries and do mission actions. It gives your skitarii some much needed breathing room and also give you strong central board control, which in my opinion is what wins games.
@@harrisonlaw7927 Thanks for the expert input!
I'd love to hear what yours Rustalker to Infiltrator ratio?
You cannot combine a power weapon and an arc pistol on your vanguard alpha. You can choose power weapon ONLY with a radium pistol. That's reason an Arc Maul is better
Yes, I have realised that now, but thank you!
When in watching you videos I always turn of my headset and put it on speaker. Lol
I appreciate your dedication! Too Loud? Too Quiet? I'll see what I can fix.
@@TabletopImpulse Audio spikes when you do a new segment. Not that big of a problem if you know about it. Maybe it's my headset that can't handle the change in volume.
Doesn't matter, keep the content coming.
@@RundOnline Apparently its a problem in power point auto leveling the volume. Lots of folks complaining about it on the MS support forums but no solutions... maybe I should reach out to Auspex Tactics...