This is terrific, very clear. Dogs and toddlers have the same question and the same response. If they don't know who to rely on, they get upset. Consistent gentle leadership makes everyone happy.
Excellent information! Recently got a new schooling horse at our barn. Every time he was taken from his stall, he would crowd the walker (including me!). After deciding (for my own protection) that I wasn't going to allow it, I began responding by just pushing him back firmly but gently, shoulder to shouder. He doesn't do it to me anymore, & is acting more willing/happier when he leaves the stall.
What a kind and loving way to explain the cruelty of giving mixed signals to animals! If we choose to keep animals, it should be with as little stress to them as possible.
I love this video! I showed it to my Husband, Gary . He pet his first Horse for the first time last year . We are older so it’s never too late ! Thanks for a Fun Video with so much wisdom. 💜🐴 💜 Laura and Bear
THANK YOU! Not because you told me something I already knew, just explained to make sense of what I knew. Not only horses, but as a Falconer, everything from a hawk to a horse wants just a few questions answered of their keeper. All animals! Food, water, shelter, good, now, who are you and who am I? Do we have a relationship? If so, how's this going to work, I need to know! or else, I will have to take charge and set the rules, I can follow or I can lead, WHICH IS IT?!? I know it sounds simple, but the basis is, NO and YES. Animals love that simplicity and will respond to it perfectly IF IT IS CONSTISTANT! Behavior Modification is a science upon itself. Cheers!
OMG this totally makes sense now! My horse would always place one hoof on my foot while I was grooming him, then LEAN into me. Once I began to lean back and push him off, he stopped. Once, he turned his head and put his teeth in my shoulder. He didn't bite... he just waited, clearly wanting to see what I'd do. He looked at me. I looked at him. I reached up and took his ear and put it in my teeth. I didn't bite, I just waited. He looked at me. I looked at him. He took his teeth off my shoulder, I took my teeth off his ear. I felt like we'd come to some kind of an understanding... I just never quite understood what that understanding was, til I saw this video, LOL!
i rode a horse like that too .funnily enough he was the best horse to fall off because he just stood there waiting for you to get up again .glad i watched this video it explained some off his behaviour around people
shemah...you talk like you were wearing steel toe boots when it stepped on your foot?...........don't tell me he did it more than once?....lol you had a crushed foot and did not learn?
most horses dont want to be in charge.. your horse was asking if you want to be in charge.. and you didnt answer.. you turned around and asked it if it wanted to be in charge.. and then you had an understanding of equality.. thats most horses.. then theres the minority ones who want to be in charge
Video brings back a lot of memories, some I didn't totally understand years ago. My dad had some horse work before their farm switched to tractors so he gave me some basic guidance. Establishing you are the boss should be No.1 with any horse before you even ride them. One good way that worked for me was to lead the horse around the yard, switching directions by pushing/pulling the halter. You'll get quick feedback if the horse is going to cooperate or test you. Often during these walks they'd throw their heads into me or rub the halter/bridle really hard on me. For their reward they'd get some chin hair pulled. They couldn't associate it with me because my right hand was under the jaw. Another favorite tactic was to body-crowd me to shove me over, usually to step on my foot. I'd just shove back and add kick to their shin. Don't send hate mail about cruelty blahablah....its far nicer than a kick from another horse. One other technique is using a riding quirt holding it along my left leg so the horse couldn't see it. If he/she didn't respond to the first method above, I'd flick my hand/wrist BEHIND MY BACK to whack their belly. The flapper noise and the belly tap don't come close to "injuring" a horse but they do not like the combination. Again they are not associating you with the discomfort, just a cause-effect of their behavior. The last thing you want to do is have a horse that's head shy if they associate your hands with discomfort. But the other last thing you want is a horse that shoves you around mentally or physically. Horses don't have a strong desire to please like a dog, especially Border Collies, so they can be a handful. More than a handful if a horse has been allowed to get away with undesirable behavior from a previous owner.
thanks for sharing that. it's always interesting to listen to someone who knows what they're talking about. how intelligent do you think they are? they are incredibly keen & alert.
I just found your channel! Yippee!👍🏼😊 22 Sept 2018 I have been struggling with this same problem.😳 Thank you, sir. Now that I have found you, I will certainly return AND I will share this with my friends. Lots of love💖 and appreciation from Louisiana!🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
Your statement of the stress the horse has over who is in charge is so true. Its so hard to get people to understand that the horse needs us to be in charge to feel safe.
Katherine Richards~ I totally agree! I sometimes will be hanging out with the horses in the pasture, just watching them and if they run, I run cause they more than likely saw a coyote or some other creature they think will eat them, like a cow, lol. they read each others emotions and body language and if one horse is fearful of something then the rest of the herd takes notice and runs as well. i on some level like to believe that I have been accepted into their herd and if I am scared, they read that and respond! i always check my emotions and try and be emotionally congruent when approaching them. I have seen scared people go in to a horse with a huge grin on their face, faking confidence and the horses see right through it!
Forget me Knot Equine Rescue inc I don't believe any human or other animal can read us as horse can. And in the barn when they all stop crunching at once, they may not start crunching again until they know you know its all ok outside. I briefly worked with a trainer who insisted you must have a contract with your horse.....Horse you are the feet, I am the eyes. Well I swear one time that my horse put a thought in my head, your eyes don't see what I'm afraid of right now, get back on my back. When I did, it was a bear he could see because of his height. When I saw the bear he immediately calmed down .
omg Katherine I had something similar happen but it was an injury to his leg. I was sleeping in the house and he jumped his pasture fence and got into the cattle pasture. he is afraid of cattle and tried to jump the barb wire fence to get out and got his leg caught. I woke up cause I had severe restless leg syndrome, i never had it before and never had it again. Anyway, I didnt think anything of it. I went out to see why his buddy was neighing at 5.30am and he was limping, it was kind of dark out so I leaned down to look and got sprayed in the face with blood. He nicked an artery. He turned out to be okay and healed just fine. Then a few weeks later i had a terrible stomach ache. I went outside to check my horses and there he was laying down where I can see him. I walked over and he looked at his tummy, looked at me and sighed, then looked at his tummy. he had colic. I told my friend and she said it was his way of telling me that he needed me. I believe now that they can communicate with us like that if we have that kind of deep connection with them. So you story is spot on!
The trainers tell me that I have the pushiest horse they have ever seen. Now I understand his confusion. We've been working with him, but probably not consistently enough. I hope this video helps us with his future confidence in us. I am definitely subscribing to this horse trainer so I can learn more. I'm the kind of person who needs to understand clearly what I'm supposed to do too! Just like the horse. A good explanation makes a better foundation.
I agree. I took all of his courses online and he explains technique and reason very well. He also uses tools for desensitization that have made some insecure horses very secure!
As a kid, I once found myself in a field of horses- and I was afraid! They were at one end of the field, me at the other, but they began moving towards me. I didn't run, but walked pretty quickly to an opening into another field, to escape them, all the while, they were gaining ground on me! Before I could get away, the leader reached me and began pushing me - I was so afraid of what might happen, but all he did was to continue pushing me until I reached the exit of the field - they could have followed me into the next field but didn't, much to my relief! My interpretation of their behaviour was that they may have been curious at first, perhaps hoping I had something for them to eat, then once they'd established that I had nothing to offer them, they firmly escorted me off the premises - I was in no doubt that I was an unwelcome trespasser in their territory as the horse continued to firmly push me out of their field!
They probably just went in to investigate, they got close to see what they could find out about you and stopped following when they smelled the poop in your pants. Hahaha
So many people here asking some textbook reference on to how to treat a living, thinking animal. It's like asking "if my neighbor is loud, what do I do?" It depends how they are loud, when they are loud, are they armed and how they take to what kind of confrontation. And unlike your neighbor, the horse doesn't likely want to hurt you, just concerns with being a horse.
This is great. It is the same with dogs but people get all caught up and confused. If we truly respect animals we need to learn about their nature and way of communicating, then determine how to interact with them. I hope this gets more views.
Hahaha. My horse nipped me in the Butt when I was cleaning his hooves once. I was so mad that I instinctively bit him on his nose. He never bit me again. He would hug me after we rode and I loved that. I miss having a horse. They are amazing creatures.
sometimes when I groom my horse he will try and groom me back by nippling on my pants pocket, he is not allowed to do that on my skin though. its something they do with each other, mutual grooming and a sign of affection.
Umm that's a BS reply, there is nothing "instinctively" about turning around and getting the horses nose to your mouth in order for you to bite it. The timing of those actions would have no effect on the horse biting you in the future either.
@@AdonisBlueCo I think it would have effect. His action had a consequence. It's just like in a herd. The horse is trying another horse but the horse fights back and shows his place. That's exactly what she did..
Mimi umm no, she’s telling a tall tale nothing more. It could have effect if her supposed bite back reaction were instantaneous but not from a series of other actions to get to the finale action she is attempting to boast.
I revisited this video again today. I have a yearling in the heard! My first baby! I REALLY think you would be proud of me! I really do! I have a tiny channel for family members so they can see what's going on. I'm doing ok. Good bless and thank you SO MUCH for your wise videos. Your a EXCELLENT Teacher! Good bless you and yours!💜🐎💜🌿🌲🌿💜🐎💜
Ross thank you for making this video. I absolutely love it. I think it teaches the first and most basic lesson that anybody who wants to be around horses needs to know. When I have non-horse people horse sit for me I make sure they watch this video
I used to ride a lot and found that if you fell off the horse thought it was his fault and woke you up if you were out cold. These were rental horses so they didn’t want to get in trouble if they went back to the barn without you
Mr. Jacobs, you appear to have very good horse since. It's obvious you know your way around horses. Not only that, but your voice is very soothing, and a pleasure to listen to. Thank you for sharing your knowledge with the horse world! People need to learn the correct way to deal with these beautiful creatures, not only to benefit themselves, but more importantly, their horses. God Bless
I'm in Mexico ranch-sitting and have 2 beautiful 8 year old geldings to care for. It's been many years since I interacted with any horse, but did have some basic skills years ago. I'm relearning everything, from saddling, bridling and gaining control over these animals. I appreciate your video!! TY
This sounds very reasonable. I feel stressed myself when working in a poorly organised team. And I can imagine that horses need to have a clear and simple set of rules to keep their swarm logic working in a stress situation like the herd running from predators.
This was really helpful to me, I’m new to horses and our yearling (we just got her a few months ago) sometimes does this to me so I need to be firmer and let her know she has to follow my lead!
All I can say about your story is "of course". I can't handle with the fact people adopt or pretend to love them (or any animals) and understand them without taking the time to learn about them.
My mules and horses do the same thing . It's their way of saying hello or just messing with me in a friendly way to get some attention or see if I'm carrying pieces of apples . I give them a hug and scratch their ears . This pretty much does the trick . Thanks for your video Mr.Jacobs .
There is a huge difference between a horse coming up to us to say hi, or check for treats or just be in our presence. His example is of a horse that is challenging a human to find out whose in charge. the way I do that is to back the horse off several feet. One or two steps back is not enough in that scenario. Several feet back is my rule. I tell him back and while he is backing I seem to say "personal space". when I am training or lungeing, or just standing in the middle of my herd they know not to crowd me. I automatically let them know, "personal space" and they stand back and let me do what I want to do in the pasture. I have horses that are jealous of other horses getting attention and that can get dangerous if they are too close. so back you horse up when he does that. You can use a lunge whip and gently tap on his chest while saying back, you can wave your hands in a waving motion also while saying back. the idea is to move the horses feet. That is how you answer the question " who is in charge"
I've been raising horses and mules for 60+ years and know what I'm doing . Have had many rescue animals including Mustangs and know what I'm doing . No whips or spurs on my ranch .
There is nothing wrong with a lunge whip if it is used correctly, as an extension of your arm not as a punishment tool. Good for you though that you are so good at what you do you dont need any tools to help you with your mules
You cleared this up for me hugely. Since the last time our mini, yes a mini horse, reared up at me and tried to paw me, he failed thank God..., we go in his pin with a whip with a plastic bag at the end. Every time. He has shown improvement. Makes sense now bc he isn't confused of who's in charge.
theres a big difference between a pushy horse and a horse that pushes on you ..sorry.. youre describing a pushy horse.. a horse that pushes on you,,is nudging you for treats or it want you to pet it,, is a sign of love
When my grandpa taught me to ride, he said never back away from it. If it was pushing me to stick my hand in the air like it was a tiger paw and swipe at it like a predictor. It worked and i only had to do it once. But i had to groom it good before it would let me saddle and ride it.
starting to ride at an early age, being brought up around horses all my life the first thing i was told is let them know who is boss. i was never afraid of a horse but aware i could get hurt if not careful. like any other animal you have to let them know who is boss from the start.
had no sound but caption got most of your message. Thank you , you make sense to me. I love horses, I get to be around other peoples horses and this is helpful.
We're buying our first horse. We've built a relationship with this horse over the last year & a half while my daughter has trained on her. She (the horse) was ALWAYS rubbing her head on me. I thought it was because her head itched. I left it go & left it go... even laughing when she did it. My daughter, did not have this issue (my daughter is still a child). I could never figure out why the horse respected my daughter more than she did me. Finally, one day I stopped allowing her to rub her head on me. & slowly but surely, she's understanding that I'm one of her people. Now, after seeing this video it all makes sense! I thought it was just a coincidence, but I guess not!
If the horse is doing this out of habit from an unclear owner, or to test a new rider, stick your knuckles into his armpit and ribs and apply pressure until he steps away from you. If the horse is challenging still, and making you move out of the way after your attempts at actually trying to make him listen, stand directly in front of his face, take the reins, and tug-tug back towards his chest/neck in a 1-2 or 1-2-3 pattern and firmly/loudly say "Back, back" to make him back up; move forward as he steps back to show that YOU are the mover, and HE is the one to back off and make way for you. If he looks like he's "thinking about it" to step into you, step into his space first, and make him move, to change his mind on who's boss. There are other methods, this is just what has worked for me with a charro trained horse who had multiple behavioral problems. He learned to respect me and I learned to respect but train him, and we were able to work very well together. He always kept respectful distance unless I motioned for him to come closer for a neck hug, petting, or grooming. He even got over his habit of challenging me for space enough for me to practice for halter showing him without worrying about getting my boots clomped on, but he was sold before I could show. Wonderful horse. Roscoe P Coltrane (spelling?) was his name. Edit: Also, wonderful video. Haven't ridden in a while but I miss it so much. Seeing videos like this keep my memory of how to train and deal with difficult horses fresh in my mind.
I love that you used one of Rick Gore’s videos on what not to do. If you want to see how Rick corrects the behavior, the video is on his channel. It’s about 8 or 9 years old, I think. Thanks for making the same point Rick makes but with very different tone and wording. Maybe some will get it better your way!
Ross, and viewers, Help please. I have a mare who crowds and gestures to bite (she used to bite until I learned how to read her) because I'm new to horses and have been looking for exactly this kind of video and any others like it that can help ME get clear and confident. This is why my horse won't let her feet be trimmed. This is why she won't let me put a halter on her. I've messed up but she definitely wants me to get a clue, she hasn't given up on me! And I'm searching for all the info to help me acquire the skills to be in charge of her. If you have any feedback, I'd love to hear it, any further videos that can help me, the two of us thank you. She's an amazing being. Also, while I'm at it here, she and my other mare didn't do well together when they were put in the pasture together so they are separated. But they can share breath or stand close, just with a fence between to keep them from damaging each other. At the start, for a couple weeks, they spent time sharing the pasture and had access to all stalls and all fields. The pushy mare dominated the second one who was on the pasture first for 8 years. The pushy one arrived 7 months ago. Neither mare will back down from the other and they hurt each other. So they are separated until I can move us to a better place with more options. Any feedback Ross, or viewers, I would greatly appreciate that is in alignment with Ross's style to learn for my girls. I just found this youtube channel this morning. Thanks.
Erika I am sorry to hear of the trouble you are having with your horse. Since you are quite new to horses I believe the best piece of advice I can offer is to get hands-on help from the best horse person you can find. No doubt your level of experience means you are still grappling with even some of the mechanical skills of how to move your horse and not let it into your space etc, so this is where having lessons from a skilled person can help accelerate your own skills and avoid the many mistakes you'll make from trying to figure it out from books, video and the internet. I don't know where you live, but I am sure there will be somebody within striking distance who can help you or perhaps good horsemanship clinicians and instructors visit your area through the year. I'm sorry I can't offer more specific advice, but I don't know you or your horses and it would be irresponsible of me to instruct you with specific "how-to" knowledge without that knowledge. I wish you the best of luck.
Hi Ross, Thank you for your reply. I live north of Seattle Washington state (usa), near the Canada border. The search continues here for a trainer. Not many have the compassionate and realistic approach that you do. Rough handling is not something I can even be in the presence of. People think its ok to put a twitch clamp on the nose or twist an ear and give drugs to be able to do routine care, like farrier trims. I am so empathic it sends me reeling when treatment like that is even brought up as ok. I saw your interview of Ellen Kealey in 2017. If only there weren’t 2,000 miles between our locations. I continue to put out sonar to find the right person....
After I went horse riding for the first time after years, I got on a horse and half way through horse riding trail ride, we (The group) was allowed the get off the horses and go walking for a bit. When we got back, I was to wait with the horse I was riding and in that mean time, They kind of... "Pushed" me with their head, I wondered what it meant when they do that and according to google, It's a sign of *affection and acknowledgement.* Keep in mind it was a girl horse and Im gonna be honest, I loved that horse. I never in my life thought It would get to the point where I'd like a horse enough to the point where I love the horse.
Dated knowledge. Pecking order has been discredited a long time ago by science and comes from a really old study about hens with limited resources and pecking order. This later somehow got transferred to both dogs and horses, which of course is not at all transferrable. Hens are not horses and the structure is more dynamic in a herd and also situation bound. Also, humans are not horses and horses do not see us as another horse. When it comes to training i recommend reading up on basic learning psychology - postive/negative reinforcement and positive/negative punishment.
Firstly, pecking order is real and does exist in horse herds. The studies that show a lack of pecking are flawed in that they don't take into account the complexity of pecking order. The studies assume pecking order is linear, when in fact it is not. It is the science that is discredit, not the principle of pecking order. Secondly.of course horses don't see humans as another horse. The video does not claim otherwise. But you are failing to appreciate that horses only have one strategy of figuring our social order so they apply that to virtually every encounter whether horse, human or goldfish. They don't know how else to work out order than to be competitive about space. You are assuming that horses only apply this strategy to other horses, which is wrong. the strategy comes from how they organize herd social order, but it is applied to scenarios such how to work out order when interacting with people or dogs or kangaroos or cows.
I think I see this with dogs, too. The horse wants to know, "Is our safety my responsibility? Or are you in charge and watching out?" Now, what do you do if a horse has learned to think that maybe they are in charge. I had a teacher who said that one must immediately say, "NO!" in a loud voice and slap the horse's shoulder or hip. What do you all think of that? It certainly worked with her horses, but I wonder if it might freak out others. The explanation is in the vid great vid here, but now I do not know how to proceed.
I don't think punishment ever helps, which is what slapping the shoulder is. The answer is to show them consistently what is expected and ensure you do it enough with enough clarity to get the horse to change it's thought - even if for a moment or two at first. Instead of showing them what they can't do (by slapping the shoulder), show them what they can do (such as be clear about showing them the space you want them to occupy and making sure that is a place of comfort and safety).
@@RossJacobs This makes lots of sense. In one instance, the horse tried to crush me against a wall with his side as I was grooming. I said, "No," sharply and smacked his hip. He stepped aside and that was the end of that. Things proceeded calmly. What would you have done with such a horse, please, at the moment? I was working with all her horses, not my own, so each came to my hands for the lesson as a mix of previous experiences. I groomed them, then rode them for a lesson, then maybe not see them for a week. What about that situation? I will probably never own my own horse.
I have noticed many similarities in horse and dogs when it comes to establishing dominance order. Although I have never raised horses myself I have raised many dogs. There are a few ways to establish order with canines but the most effective is through walking the animal, always making sure the dog is at heel thus making the human pack leader. I assume driving the horse has the same effect when establishing an order between human and the horse. Thank you for your informative video. Mr. Jacobs.
If I try to back my horse up (releasing when she steps back and putting pressure on when needed) she becomes more and more annoyed seemingly. Her ears flatten, whites of her eyes show and her head raises. Why is this please? She follows and stops well on a long rope, is responsive and soft on the bit etc. Thank you
I have a pretty good relationship with my horses and they know who runs the show. Unfortunately, friends and their kids come around to feed or sometimes ride my horses. I say unfortunately because invariably one of the humans will disregard my simply instructions and my horses get a bad name. My horses have their own pecking order and when I get in the mix, they consider me the leader. Is there a way to gentle train humans, without my horses being labelled and possibly in the same vein, me getting called all sorts of unpleasant names?
As I explained in another comment 'how to correct' the issue will depend on many variables related to a specific horse at a specific time - it will change with every horse and every circumstance. But understanding 'why' is far more important because then it allows each person to come up with their own version of 'how' to suit their horse and their situation. There are lots of video and info out there describing methods to fix these things if you look, but very little information explaining why it happens.
Ross Jacobs well take the example of the girl you used...how should she have handled her horse...I'm not a horse owner, just a horse lover and am curious...great video btw
sjacquelin5610, every time we ask to do something it is imperative that we get a change of thought. So when she asks the horse to step away, the horse needs to have the idea to create more space. If she just uses enough pressure to move the feet away, but the horse is still thinking about crowding her the horse has learned nothing. It's like telling a kid to not eat another cookie. You can tell it to not a cookie, but the moment you turn your back it has its hand in the cookie jar. Or you can tell it to not eat another cookie and then kid gives up the idea and goes outside to play.
+Woman of Substance That's easy. Just lift the horse over your head and body slam it into the ground. If that doesn't work try grabbing both back feet at the same time and lifting really hard...
I never had much experience with horses. My ex is fond of horses, but can't afford one. Some years ago, I had a collegue who had a horse. She had just been fired, and now had to work an hour by car away. As a single mom commuting, she had less time to take care of her horse, and my wife (now my ex) asked it she could help out, and in exchange get to ride the horse now and then. They came to an agreement, and that meant that our daughter also got to ride a bit. The interesting task of cleaning the box fell upon me, while "the girls" took care of the horse. I learned a lot about manure, and also a bit about grooming a horse. Since I am not very coordinated, and not very fond of falling, I didn't ride the horse. Besides, I was very heavy back then, and one of the other riders told us, that the horse wasn't really strong enough to carry me. At least I had more time to focus on the joy of hauling out manure and stray. I was also gifted with the task of grooming, so I insisted that I was also allowed to pass on treats to the horse. The first time my darling ex groomed the horse, she was greeted by the loudest "trumpeteering" I have ever heard. The horse had indeed farted, just as the grooming of the posterior parts of the horse (horse butt?) was about to commence. I desperately tried not to laugh, and the horse was rewarded with a smack on the butt. It didn't fart on my darling ex again, so I think the message was clear enough. The first time I was to groom the horse, it bit my arm out of nowhere (so I think). I got so annoyed, that I clapped the horse on the shoulder, and gave it a harst stare. It never bit me again, and even stopped poking me in the ribs with the nose (snout?) and pushing me around with the side of the head. The horse even started to behave nicely when I had to put on the . . . uhmn . . . headgear, and I could walk the horse, a bit like walking a dog. Was it bad of me to clap the horse? Would it had been enough to "stare down" the horse? If I had clapped a smaller animal that hard, I might have hurt or worse, injured it. I don't think a cat or a dog would ever have "spoken" to me again, and a rat sized animal would most likely had been flattened. PS: Thank you for the lovely video. It is always nice to learn something new.
Thomas Raahauge (I'm late but..) No, I think you did alright. Biting is completely unacceptable and MUST be dealt with, not brushed off. You had no intention to hurt the horse, and it most likely frightened him but as long as it didn't hurt him, I believe you're okay.
Thanks for a great video. Can you teach us how to give him a clear answer please please please! I keep watching People's videos and they keep saying this but no one shows you how to do it. I'm desperate.
My horses never pushed on me. I was always "lead mare". However, the day I put my mare to sleep she shoved me away from her with her head. I still don't understand, but she was in a lot of pain.
I'd like to see an example of how you gently and firmly answer that question without coming across as aggressive. At the end of the day a horse is 10 times bigger than I am so it can be hard to stand my ground to an animal that could just bowl me straight over.
Watch this video th-cam.com/video/u10WTmcI2xU/w-d-xo.html. It shows a horse pushing and mugging me and then follows with me addressing the pushing. But you have to watch the video the whole way through because the stuff you are wanting some ideas about begins about half way through the video.
Can't believe how ignorant we've become in relation to our animals. Everyone thinks they are pets to cuddle and faun over. All animals are to know their place. They work for you, not themselves. They don't have human emotions and are clearly confused by the behavior of most people. Firm and consistent, always, not mean and rough, and you will rarely have a problem with any animal.
OK, so I was at a barn the other day, first day meeting this new horse, and he did walk into my space a bit as I was standing there, talking to the owner. He was also veering left into me a tad bit as I tried to walk him to be groomed, again, getting into my space. So, what should I have done in these instances? I asked the owner what this meant, and they said the horse was just saying hi. It didn't seem like this was the case, but I'm new to horses.. So, now I can see he was asking me who was in charge. What actions could I have taken to tell him I was in charge in these specific cases?
Interesting but is it the same for both mares and stallions or only for one of them? I am curious since the herd's mares usually have a matriarch who is the main mare and the leader stallion as long as I know and a trainer I know uses horse body language to act like the leader horses and keep the trained horse in the place of foal which is "I obey the trainer for they are my parent/matriarch/leading stallion"
Well, thank you for clarifying the question, but you didn't record the ANSWER of how to go about to establish yourself as being in charge of the horse.
That's true I didn't answer the question how to stop a horse pushing on you, but I did answer the much more important question of why they do it. If you understand 'why' you can come up with your own 'how' and won't need to copy somebody else's method which may or may not be right for your horse.
Mande Peer, are you a feminist or just in denial? P.S.: I will die someday so your wish will come true. Bit of a harsh punishment for just a little comment which I find to be true. Are you one of the females that use to operate the guillotine in old France?
Dogs have a very specific ritual to establish that. It consists of 3 parts. First, is direct eye contact. Then, you bark very softly in the dogs ear. Finally, you put your head over top of the dogs. Some dogs will accept this from the beginning. Some will try to resist it. It's a good idea to have a firm grip on the collar in case you have to wrestle the dog into submission. If the dog wins you will have one that behaves like the horses in this video. If you win, you will have a dog that is loyal and obedient.
Just like bringing up children, no different.Babies very quickly establish who is going to be boss,and if you are so weak that you are given the run around by a baby,you deserve the years of misery both you and the child will suffer as a result.I'm not advocating neglect,or of showing loving care, just ensuring all due care is given and showing that you are entitled to some life also.There will be a challenge to this,and your child will not thank you for being a wimp, that makes him feel vulnerable.I guess it's much the same with horses, except they're bigger, so you have to be clearer.
how to give that answer then? I've seen very experienced raiders to instantly slap the horse across the face when they start to push them around. Is this the way to go?
Clear message but no clear answer. As in, what to do to let the horse know whos in charge. I have limited experience with horses but i know it can be dificult to get them to move if they dont want to. Sometimes they will even ignore food to stay where they like. Sometimes they are just eating and completly ignore humans around them. Sometimes they see a human in the distance and start running to check him out and will kick and jump to get attention and basically ask to be petted. Other times they just want to smell you and they leave when they notice you didnt put on any deodorant.
You can also push a horse too hard and they will get mad. I've done it and the horse will throw a temper tantrum, but all you need to do is stop everything and make up to the horse, it will calm down and you can continue as normal.
Definitely insightful, but how can you know for certain which gesture is a question and which is a show of affection ? Seems like you could easily mix them up.
I deal with that a lot bringing in new horses all the time. Watch their eyes, if their eye is soft and they are just gently nudging you but stop when you try and correct, them its probably affection. If their eyes are not soft. open wide, ears erect and they don't respond at all to you, then I would think that is a test, but again every horse is different and you just have to be the same with every horse, all the time, firm fair and consistent.
yea, but do you push back or what...I was waiting to hear the answer...is there another video where he explains what to do or do we have to send money somewhere ?
I love learning this stuff. Are there horses who wont yield to the person, and want to remain dominant ? Or is it more typical for horses to want to be led by, subordinate to people ?
I have found, even with the most dominant horse that they dont want to be in charge. they would rather just follow and know what to do and where they stand in the herd. I have dealt with some very dominant horses. i had one when I first started working with them that would not load in a trailer. I had moved and he was the last horse left on the property. 2 days of trying to load him, a vet came, sedated him and he still wouldn't get on. Another experienced horseman tried and failed. I finally called a friend who is really good with horses and within 45 minutes she had him on and looked at me and said "you know what I am going to do, right?" I said yup, your taking him off and she did that three more times until he just loaded on his own, all in all it took about an hour and a half. She said something that has stuck with me and shaped my way of handling these animals to this day. She said "You are not going to drag an 1100 pound horse on the trailer, nor can you trick him on. You need to work with his mind and gain his trust and respect, then you will be able to work with him"and now he is easy to handle and loads at will!
The video he used, with the girl, is from Thinklikeahorse. The girl goes on, in that video, to show the correct way to lunge a pushy horse. He should have shown that here, but you can find it at Thinklikeahorse here on youtube.
Horses are stronger than people. How can you win a pushing war? Also when a horse meets a new human, does it try to kick the human to establish dominance?
Horses are stronger, but they are also very submissive - which is why we ride horses and not tigers. You don't have to out-muscle a horse to get a change of thought. If you have a horse that has been taught to push on people you only have to make pushing on you a little less comfortable than not pushing on you then they will change their thought as to what is the better idea. When you answer their question with clarity, the pushing stops because they understand their role in the relationship and are comfortable to not push on you. This is how it works in any relationship for a horse, whether with a human or another horse.
This is terrific, very clear. Dogs and toddlers have the same question and the same response. If they don't know who to rely on, they get upset. Consistent gentle leadership makes everyone happy.
I used a lot of the dog training techniques on my kids. It worked, one Ah, and they new stop, 2 Ah's and they knew they pushing it.
Horses play an almost non-existent role in my life however I find this absolutely fascinating! Thanks very much for the video :)
Excellent information! Recently got a new schooling horse at our barn. Every time he was taken from his stall, he would crowd the walker (including me!). After deciding (for my own protection) that I wasn't going to allow it, I began responding by just pushing him back firmly but gently, shoulder to shouder. He doesn't do it to me anymore, & is acting more willing/happier when he leaves the stall.
What a kind and loving way to explain the cruelty of giving mixed signals to animals! If we choose to keep animals, it should be with as little stress to them as possible.
I love this video! I showed it to my Husband, Gary . He pet his first Horse for the first time last year . We are older so it’s never too late ! Thanks for a Fun Video with so much wisdom. 💜🐴 💜 Laura and Bear
THANK YOU! Not because you told me something I already knew, just explained to make sense of what I knew. Not only horses, but as a Falconer, everything from a hawk to a horse wants just a few questions answered of their keeper. All animals! Food, water, shelter, good, now, who are you and who am I? Do we have a relationship? If so, how's this going to work, I need to know! or else, I will have to take charge and set the rules, I can follow or I can lead, WHICH IS IT?!? I know it sounds simple, but the basis is, NO and YES. Animals love that simplicity and will respond to it perfectly IF IT IS CONSTISTANT! Behavior Modification is a science upon itself. Cheers!
OMG this totally makes sense now! My horse would always place one hoof on my foot while I was grooming him, then LEAN into me. Once I began to lean back and push him off, he stopped. Once, he turned his head and put his teeth in my shoulder. He didn't bite... he just waited, clearly wanting to see what I'd do. He looked at me. I looked at him. I reached up and took his ear and put it in my teeth. I didn't bite, I just waited. He looked at me. I looked at him. He took his teeth off my shoulder, I took my teeth off his ear. I felt like we'd come to some kind of an understanding... I just never quite understood what that understanding was, til I saw this video, LOL!
Shemah Fletcher
I love your story!
You ever try to eat grass?
i rode a horse like that too .funnily enough he was the best horse to fall off because he just stood there waiting for you to get up again .glad i watched this video it explained some off his behaviour around people
shemah...you talk like you were wearing steel toe boots when it stepped on your foot?...........don't tell me he did it more than once?....lol you had a crushed foot and did not learn?
most horses dont want to be in charge.. your horse was asking if you want to be in charge.. and you didnt answer.. you turned around and asked it if it wanted to be in charge.. and then you had an understanding of equality.. thats most horses.. then theres the minority ones who want to be in charge
Love this video, I actually say out loud to my horse "don't you move my feet I'm moving yours". It works very well, thanks to your explanation.
I used to tell my mare "Get off me ya big cow!" And she would.
Video brings back a lot of memories, some I didn't totally understand years ago. My dad had some horse work before their farm switched to tractors so he gave me some basic guidance. Establishing you are the boss should be No.1 with any horse before you even ride them. One good way that worked for me was to lead the horse around the yard, switching directions by pushing/pulling the halter. You'll get quick feedback if the horse is going to cooperate or test you. Often during these walks they'd throw their heads into me or rub the halter/bridle really hard on me. For their reward they'd get some chin hair pulled. They couldn't associate it with me because my right hand was under the jaw.
Another favorite tactic was to body-crowd me to shove me over, usually to step on my foot. I'd just shove back and add kick to their shin. Don't send hate mail about cruelty blahablah....its far nicer than a kick from another horse. One other technique is using a riding quirt holding it along my left leg so the horse couldn't see it. If he/she didn't respond to the first method above, I'd flick my hand/wrist BEHIND MY BACK to whack their belly. The flapper noise and the belly tap don't come close to "injuring" a horse but they do not like the combination. Again they are not associating you with the discomfort, just a cause-effect of their behavior.
The last thing you want to do is have a horse that's head shy if they associate your hands with discomfort. But the other last thing you want is a horse that shoves you around mentally or physically. Horses don't have a strong desire to please like a dog, especially Border Collies, so they can be a handful. More than a handful if a horse has been allowed to get away with undesirable behavior from a previous owner.
thanks for sharing that. it's always interesting to listen to someone who knows what they're talking about. how intelligent do you think they are? they are incredibly keen & alert.
Thank you for addressing the question this video left me with, which was: What do you do about it? =^[.]^=
Thats stupid
I just found your channel! Yippee!👍🏼😊
22 Sept 2018
I have been struggling with this same problem.😳
Thank you, sir. Now that I have found you, I will certainly return AND I will share this with my friends.
Lots of love💖 and appreciation from Louisiana!🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
Your statement of the stress the horse has over who is in charge is so true. Its so hard to get people to understand that the horse needs us to be in charge to feel safe.
They want to know that if they trust us we won't walk them off a cliff or into trouble. lol
Forget me Knot Equine Rescue inc I always think they are thinking " well if YOU are scared , then I should be very scared" .
Katherine Richards~ I totally agree! I sometimes will be hanging out with the horses in the pasture, just watching them and if they run, I run cause they more than likely saw a coyote or some other creature they think will eat them, like a cow, lol. they read each others emotions and body language and if one horse is fearful of something then the rest of the herd takes notice and runs as well. i on some level like to believe that I have been accepted into their herd and if I am scared, they read that and respond! i always check my emotions and try and be emotionally congruent when approaching them. I have seen scared people go in to a horse with a huge grin on their face, faking confidence and the horses see right through it!
Forget me Knot Equine Rescue inc I don't believe any human or other animal can read us as horse can. And in the barn when they all stop crunching at once, they may not start crunching again until they know you know its all ok outside. I briefly worked with a trainer who insisted you must have a contract with your horse.....Horse you are the feet, I am the eyes. Well I swear one time that my horse put a thought in my head, your eyes don't see what I'm afraid of right now, get back on my back. When I did, it was a bear he could see because of his height. When I saw the bear he immediately calmed down .
omg Katherine I had something similar happen but it was an injury to his leg. I was sleeping in the house and he jumped his pasture fence and got into the cattle pasture. he is afraid of cattle and tried to jump the barb wire fence to get out and got his leg caught. I woke up cause I had severe restless leg syndrome, i never had it before and never had it again. Anyway, I didnt think anything of it. I went out to see why his buddy was neighing at 5.30am and he was limping, it was kind of dark out so I leaned down to look and got sprayed in the face with blood. He nicked an artery. He turned out to be okay and healed just fine. Then a few weeks later i had a terrible stomach ache. I went outside to check my horses and there he was laying down where I can see him. I walked over and he looked at his tummy, looked at me and sighed, then looked at his tummy. he had colic. I told my friend and she said it was his way of telling me that he needed me. I believe now that they can communicate with us like that if we have that kind of deep connection with them. So you story is spot on!
The trainers tell me that I have the pushiest horse they have ever seen. Now I understand his confusion. We've been working with him, but probably not consistently enough. I hope this video helps us with his future confidence in us. I am definitely subscribing to this horse trainer so I can learn more. I'm the kind of person who needs to understand clearly what I'm supposed to do too! Just like the horse. A good explanation makes a better foundation.
Warwick Schiller is good also. He explains things well and is very concerned with safety with the horses.
Elizabeth Staeheli Kim
I agree. I took all of his courses online and he explains technique and reason very well. He also uses tools for desensitization that have made some insecure horses very secure!
Steve Young, the Clever Cowgirl, Free Spirit Equestrian . . .
As a kid, I once found myself in a field of horses- and I was afraid! They were at one end of the field, me at the other, but they began moving towards me. I didn't run, but walked pretty quickly to an opening into another field, to escape them, all the while, they were gaining ground on me! Before I could get away, the leader reached me and began pushing me - I was so afraid of what might happen, but all he did was to continue pushing me until I reached the exit of the field - they could have followed me into the next field but didn't, much to my relief! My interpretation of their behaviour was that they may have been curious at first, perhaps hoping I had something for them to eat, then once they'd established that I had nothing to offer them, they firmly escorted me off the premises - I was in no doubt that I was an unwelcome trespasser in their territory as the horse continued to firmly push me out of their field!
They probably just went in to investigate, they got close to see what they could find out about you and stopped following when they smelled the poop in your pants. Hahaha
So many people here asking some textbook reference on to how to treat a living, thinking animal. It's like asking "if my neighbor is loud, what do I do?" It depends how they are loud, when they are loud, are they armed and how they take to what kind of confrontation. And unlike your neighbor, the horse doesn't likely want to hurt you, just concerns with being a horse.
Not a horse owner but this is very informative and so good to know. Never know when you'll need it.
Clear, directly communicated information!! Inspires me to be as clear and direct with my horse!!
Thank you for this excellent video!!
This is great. It is the same with dogs but people get all caught up and confused. If we truly respect animals we need to learn about their nature and way of communicating, then determine how to interact with them. I hope this gets more views.
marshhen yes, same with dogs, and young children! Lol, but true. Thanks, Ross!
Hahaha. My horse nipped me in the Butt when I was cleaning his hooves once. I was so mad that I instinctively bit him on his nose. He never bit me again. He would hug me after we rode and I loved that. I miss having a horse. They are amazing creatures.
sometimes when I groom my horse he will try and groom me back by nippling on my pants pocket, he is not allowed to do that on my skin though. its something they do with each other, mutual grooming and a sign of affection.
Umm that's a BS reply, there is nothing "instinctively" about turning around and getting the horses nose to your mouth in order for you to bite it. The timing of those actions would have no effect on the horse biting you in the future either.
@@AdonisBlueCo I think it would have effect. His action had a consequence. It's just like in a herd. The horse is trying another horse but the horse fights back and shows his place. That's exactly what she did..
Mimi umm no, she’s telling a tall tale nothing more. It could have effect if her supposed bite back reaction were instantaneous but not from a series of other actions to get to the finale action she is attempting to boast.
I revisited this video again today. I have a yearling in the heard! My first baby! I REALLY think you would be proud of me! I really do! I have a tiny channel for family members so they can see what's going on. I'm doing ok. Good bless and thank you SO MUCH for your wise videos. Your a EXCELLENT Teacher! Good bless you and yours!💜🐎💜🌿🌲🌿💜🐎💜
Ross thank you for making this video. I absolutely love it. I think it teaches the first and most basic lesson that anybody who wants to be around horses needs to know. When I have non-horse people horse sit for me I make sure they watch this video
I used to ride a lot and found that if you fell off the horse thought it was his fault and woke you up if you were out cold. These were rental horses so they didn’t want to get in trouble if they went back to the barn without you
Mr. Jacobs, you appear to have very good horse since. It's obvious you know your way around horses. Not only that, but your voice is very soothing, and a pleasure to listen to. Thank you for sharing your knowledge with the horse world! People need to learn the correct way to deal with these beautiful creatures, not only to benefit themselves, but more importantly, their horses. God Bless
I'm in Mexico ranch-sitting and have 2 beautiful 8 year old geldings to care for. It's been many years since I interacted with any horse, but did have some basic skills years ago. I'm relearning everything, from saddling, bridling and gaining control over these animals. I appreciate your video!! TY
This sounds very reasonable. I feel stressed myself when working in a poorly organised team. And I can imagine that horses need to have a clear and simple set of rules to keep their swarm logic working in a stress situation like the herd running from predators.
This was really helpful to me, I’m new to horses and our yearling (we just got her a few months ago) sometimes does this to me so I need to be firmer and let her know she has to follow my lead!
All I can say about your story is "of course". I can't handle with the fact people adopt or pretend to love them (or any animals) and understand them without taking the time to learn about them.
Thank you sir. I love the straight forward mellow tone in your message.
My mules and horses do the same thing . It's their way of saying hello or just messing with me in a friendly way to get some attention or see if I'm carrying pieces of apples . I give them a hug and scratch their ears . This pretty much does the trick . Thanks for your video Mr.Jacobs .
There is a huge difference between a horse coming up to us to say hi, or check for treats or just be in our presence. His example is of a horse that is challenging a human to find out whose in charge. the way I do that is to back the horse off several feet. One or two steps back is not enough in that scenario. Several feet back is my rule. I tell him back and while he is backing I seem to say "personal space". when I am training or lungeing, or just standing in the middle of my herd they know not to crowd me. I automatically let them know, "personal space" and they stand back and let me do what I want to do in the pasture. I have horses that are jealous of other horses getting attention and that can get dangerous if they are too close. so back you horse up when he does that. You can use a lunge whip and gently tap on his chest while saying back, you can wave your hands in a waving motion also while saying back. the idea is to move the horses feet. That is how you answer the question " who is in charge"
I've been raising horses and mules for 60+ years and know what I'm doing . Have had many rescue animals including Mustangs and know what I'm doing .
No whips or spurs on my ranch .
There is nothing wrong with a lunge whip if it is used correctly, as an extension of your arm not as a punishment tool. Good for you though that you are so good at what you do you dont need any tools to help you with your mules
You cleared this up for me hugely.
Since the last time our mini, yes a mini horse, reared up at me and tried to paw me, he failed thank God..., we go in his pin with a whip with a plastic bag at the end.
Every time. He has shown improvement. Makes sense now bc he isn't confused of who's in charge.
theres a big difference between a pushy horse and a horse that pushes on you ..sorry..
youre describing a pushy horse..
a horse that pushes on you,,is nudging you for treats or it want you to pet it,, is a sign of love
When my grandpa taught me to ride, he said never back away from it. If it was pushing me to stick my hand in the air like it was a tiger paw and swipe at it like a predictor. It worked and i only had to do it once. But i had to groom it good before it would let me saddle and ride it.
Most clear example of what not to do I've seen. I will share. Thanks for the help.
pcokfarm it doesn’t give any examples of what TO do much less what not to do
starting to ride at an early age, being brought up around horses all my life the first thing i was told is let them know who is boss. i was never afraid of a horse but aware i could get hurt if not careful. like any other animal you have to let them know who is boss from the start.
had no sound but caption got most of your message. Thank you , you make sense to me. I love horses, I get to be around other peoples horses and this is helpful.
We're buying our first horse. We've built a relationship with this horse over the last year & a half while my daughter has trained on her. She (the horse) was ALWAYS rubbing her head on me. I thought it was because her head itched. I left it go & left it go... even laughing when she did it. My daughter, did not have this issue (my daughter is still a child). I could never figure out why the horse respected my daughter more than she did me. Finally, one day I stopped allowing her to rub her head on me. & slowly but surely, she's understanding that I'm one of her people. Now, after seeing this video it all makes sense! I thought it was just a coincidence, but I guess not!
Thanks for sharing! I never knew this - don't have a horse but it's good to understand them. I try to understand all animals.
For a non-horse person like me, this is a real eye-opener. Fascinating window into horse behaviour!
If the horse is doing this out of habit from an unclear owner, or to test a new rider, stick your knuckles into his armpit and ribs and apply pressure until he steps away from you. If the horse is challenging still, and making you move out of the way after your attempts at actually trying to make him listen, stand directly in front of his face, take the reins, and tug-tug back towards his chest/neck in a 1-2 or 1-2-3 pattern and firmly/loudly say "Back, back" to make him back up; move forward as he steps back to show that YOU are the mover, and HE is the one to back off and make way for you. If he looks like he's "thinking about it" to step into you, step into his space first, and make him move, to change his mind on who's boss. There are other methods, this is just what has worked for me with a charro trained horse who had multiple behavioral problems. He learned to respect me and I learned to respect but train him, and we were able to work very well together. He always kept respectful distance unless I motioned for him to come closer for a neck hug, petting, or grooming. He even got over his habit of challenging me for space enough for me to practice for halter showing him without worrying about getting my boots clomped on, but he was sold before I could show. Wonderful horse. Roscoe P Coltrane (spelling?) was his name.
Edit: Also, wonderful video. Haven't ridden in a while but I miss it so much. Seeing videos like this keep my memory of how to train and deal with difficult horses fresh in my mind.
I always thought it was because they didn't have hands to scratch their faces and your shoulder is softer than a tree or post.
Nancy Christiansen they still scratch their face with their back foot
Nancy Christiansen: did your parents raise you to be a scratching post for a horse? ;)
Love, love, love it! So true and explained well!
You should have credited Rick Gore for the lunge video. Not just a video on the internet, it is another horse trainers video on pushy horses
th-cam.com/video/aBg2zpyil3k/w-d-xo.html
Thanks for the video, I am not a horse person but have ridden a bit, this explains a lot.
I just want to tell you how much I love your videos!!!
Thanks Ross, answering lots of questions for me today through your videos. Thank you.
When I first got my horse, he pushed on me, I pushed him back, and never had a problem out of him
I love that you used one of Rick Gore’s videos on what not to do. If you want to see how Rick corrects the behavior, the video is on his channel. It’s about 8 or 9 years old, I think. Thanks for making the same point Rick makes but with very different tone and wording. Maybe some will get it better your way!
NSW my arse Ross is in Tasmania I know I saw the last Thylacine go past at 0:21.
Yeah. That was Spud our pre-historic cross bred mutt. A great dog, but a lousy impersonator of extinct species.
Ross, and viewers, Help please. I have a mare who crowds and gestures to bite (she used to bite until I learned how to read her) because I'm new to horses and have been looking for exactly this kind of video and any others like it that can help ME get clear and confident. This is why my horse won't let her feet be trimmed. This is why she won't let me put a halter on her. I've messed up but she definitely wants me to get a clue, she hasn't given up on me! And I'm searching for all the info to help me acquire the skills to be in charge of her. If you have any feedback, I'd love to hear it, any further videos that can help me, the two of us thank you. She's an amazing being. Also, while I'm at it here, she and my other mare didn't do well together when they were put in the pasture together so they are separated. But they can share breath or stand close, just with a fence between to keep them from damaging each other. At the start, for a couple weeks, they spent time sharing the pasture and had access to all stalls and all fields. The pushy mare dominated the second one who was on the pasture first for 8 years. The pushy one arrived 7 months ago. Neither mare will back down from the other and they hurt each other. So they are separated until I can move us to a better place with more options. Any feedback Ross, or viewers, I would greatly appreciate that is in alignment with Ross's style to learn for my girls. I just found this youtube channel this morning. Thanks.
Erika I am sorry to hear of the trouble you are having with your horse. Since you are quite new to horses I believe the best piece of advice I can offer is to get hands-on help from the best horse person you can find. No doubt your level of experience means you are still grappling with even some of the mechanical skills of how to move your horse and not let it into your space etc, so this is where having lessons from a skilled person can help accelerate your own skills and avoid the many mistakes you'll make from trying to figure it out from books, video and the internet. I don't know where you live, but I am sure there will be somebody within striking distance who can help you or perhaps good horsemanship clinicians and instructors visit your area through the year.
I'm sorry I can't offer more specific advice, but I don't know you or your horses and it would be irresponsible of me to instruct you with specific "how-to" knowledge without that knowledge. I wish you the best of luck.
Hi Ross, Thank you for your reply. I live north of Seattle Washington state (usa), near the Canada border. The search continues here for a trainer. Not many have the compassionate and realistic approach that you do. Rough handling is not something I can even be in the presence of. People think its ok to put a twitch clamp on the nose or twist an ear and give drugs to be able to do routine care, like farrier trims. I am so empathic it sends me reeling when treatment like that is even brought up as ok. I saw your interview of Ellen Kealey in 2017. If only there weren’t 2,000 miles between our locations. I continue to put out sonar to find the right person....
After I went horse riding for the first time after years, I got on a horse and half way through horse riding trail ride, we (The group) was allowed the get off the horses and go walking for a bit. When we got back, I was to wait with the horse I was riding and in that mean time, They kind of... "Pushed" me with their head, I wondered what it meant when they do that and according to google, It's a sign of *affection and acknowledgement.* Keep in mind it was a girl horse and Im gonna be honest, I loved that horse. I never in my life thought It would get to the point where I'd like a horse enough to the point where I love the horse.
Dated knowledge. Pecking order has been discredited a long time ago by science and comes from a really old study about hens with limited resources and pecking order. This later somehow got transferred to both dogs and horses, which of course is not at all transferrable. Hens are not horses and the structure is more dynamic in a herd and also situation bound. Also, humans are not horses and horses do not see us as another horse. When it comes to training i recommend reading up on basic learning psychology - postive/negative reinforcement and positive/negative punishment.
Firstly, pecking order is real and does exist in horse herds. The studies that show a lack of pecking are flawed in that they don't take into account the complexity of pecking order. The studies assume pecking order is linear, when in fact it is not. It is the science that is discredit, not the principle of pecking order.
Secondly.of course horses don't see humans as another horse. The video does not claim otherwise. But you are failing to appreciate that horses only have one strategy of figuring our social order so they apply that to virtually every encounter whether horse, human or goldfish. They don't know how else to work out order than to be competitive about space. You are assuming that horses only apply this strategy to other horses, which is wrong. the strategy comes from how they organize herd social order, but it is applied to scenarios such how to work out order when interacting with people or dogs or kangaroos or cows.
I had bicycle, motorcycle, and car and I am wondering what should be driven in the future.
I think I see this with dogs, too. The horse wants to know, "Is our safety my responsibility? Or are you in charge and watching out?" Now, what do you do if a horse has learned to think that maybe they are in charge. I had a teacher who said that one must immediately say, "NO!" in a loud voice and slap the horse's shoulder or hip. What do you all think of that? It certainly worked with her horses, but I wonder if it might freak out others. The explanation is in the vid great vid here, but now I do not know how to proceed.
I don't think punishment ever helps, which is what slapping the shoulder is. The answer is to show them consistently what is expected and ensure you do it enough with enough clarity to get the horse to change it's thought - even if for a moment or two at first. Instead of showing them what they can't do (by slapping the shoulder), show them what they can do (such as be clear about showing them the space you want them to occupy and making sure that is a place of comfort and safety).
@@RossJacobs This makes lots of sense. In one instance, the horse tried to crush me against a wall with his side as I was grooming. I said, "No," sharply and smacked his hip. He stepped aside and that was the end of that. Things proceeded calmly. What would you have done with such a horse, please, at the moment? I was working with all her horses, not my own, so each came to my hands for the lesson as a mix of previous experiences. I groomed them, then rode them for a lesson, then maybe not see them for a week. What about that situation? I will probably never own my own horse.
Terrific! Thank you, Ross.
Thank you so much for this video!
I have noticed many similarities in horse and dogs when it comes to establishing dominance order.
Although I have never raised horses myself I have raised many dogs. There are a few ways to establish order with canines but the most effective is through walking the animal, always making sure the dog is at heel thus making the human pack leader.
I assume driving the horse has the same effect when establishing an order between human and the horse.
Thank you for your informative video. Mr. Jacobs.
Exactly, all pack animals have "follow the leader" instincts. Thats why horses are driven and tamed b4 being mounted.
If I try to back my horse up (releasing when she steps back and putting pressure on when needed) she becomes more and more annoyed seemingly. Her ears flatten, whites of her eyes show and her head raises. Why is this please? She follows and stops well on a long rope, is responsive and soft on the bit etc. Thank you
Good explanation! Your written explanation is perfect.
thankyou, so easy to understand clearly and helps me make some change for the better 😊
I have a pretty good relationship with my horses and they know who runs the show. Unfortunately, friends and their kids come around to feed or sometimes ride my horses. I say unfortunately because invariably one of the humans will disregard my simply instructions and my horses get a bad name. My horses have their own pecking order and when I get in the mix, they consider me the leader. Is there a way to gentle train humans, without my horses being labelled and possibly in the same vein, me getting called all sorts of unpleasant names?
Ross, so what are examples of giving clear answers?
You explained the "why", but not the "how to correct."
As I explained in another comment 'how to correct' the issue will depend on many variables related to a specific horse at a specific time - it will change with every horse and every circumstance. But understanding 'why' is far more important because then it allows each person to come up with their own version of 'how' to suit their horse and their situation.
There are lots of video and info out there describing methods to fix these things if you look, but very little information explaining why it happens.
Ross Jacobs well take the example of the girl you used...how should she have handled her horse...I'm not a horse owner, just a horse lover and am curious...great video btw
sjacquelin5610, every time we ask to do something it is imperative that we get a change of thought. So when she asks the horse to step away, the horse needs to have the idea to create more space. If she just uses enough pressure to move the feet away, but the horse is still thinking about crowding her the horse has learned nothing. It's like telling a kid to not eat another cookie. You can tell it to not a cookie, but the moment you turn your back it has its hand in the cookie jar. Or you can tell it to not eat another cookie and then kid gives up the idea and goes outside to play.
Ross Jacobs thanks!
+Woman of Substance
That's easy. Just lift the horse over your head and body slam it into the ground. If that doesn't work try grabbing both back feet at the same time and lifting really hard...
Thankyou for sharing Ross
I never had much experience with horses. My ex is fond of horses, but can't afford one. Some years ago, I had a collegue who had a horse. She had just been fired, and now had to work an hour by car away. As a single mom commuting, she had less time to take care of her horse, and my wife (now my ex) asked it she could help out, and in exchange get to ride the horse now and then. They came to an agreement, and that meant that our daughter also got to ride a bit.
The interesting task of cleaning the box fell upon me, while "the girls" took care of the horse. I learned a lot about manure, and also a bit about grooming a horse. Since I am not very coordinated, and not very fond of falling, I didn't ride the horse. Besides, I was very heavy back then, and one of the other riders told us, that the horse wasn't really strong enough to carry me. At least I had more time to focus on the joy of hauling out manure and stray. I was also gifted with the task of grooming, so I insisted that I was also allowed to pass on treats to the horse.
The first time my darling ex groomed the horse, she was greeted by the loudest "trumpeteering" I have ever heard. The horse had indeed farted, just as the grooming of the posterior parts of the horse (horse butt?) was about to commence. I desperately tried not to laugh, and the horse was rewarded with a smack on the butt. It didn't fart on my darling ex again, so I think the message was clear enough.
The first time I was to groom the horse, it bit my arm out of nowhere (so I think). I got so annoyed, that I clapped the horse on the shoulder, and gave it a harst stare. It never bit me again, and even stopped poking me in the ribs with the nose (snout?) and pushing me around with the side of the head. The horse even started to behave nicely when I had to put on the . . . uhmn . . . headgear, and I could walk the horse, a bit like walking a dog.
Was it bad of me to clap the horse? Would it had been enough to "stare down" the horse? If I had clapped a smaller animal that hard, I might have hurt or worse, injured it. I don't think a cat or a dog would ever have "spoken" to me again, and a rat sized animal would most likely had been flattened.
PS: Thank you for the lovely video. It is always nice to learn something new.
Thomas Raahauge
(I'm late but..)
No, I think you did alright. Biting is completely unacceptable and MUST be dealt with, not brushed off. You had no intention to hurt the horse, and it most likely frightened him but as long as it didn't hurt him, I believe you're okay.
Thanks for a great video. Can you teach us how to give him a clear answer please please please! I keep watching People's videos and they keep saying this but no one shows you how to do it. I'm desperate.
I'm hoping the video called Stop Driving Your Horse Crazy might give some ideas how to approach helping a horse not to push on people.
because they like you or hate you.. youll know the difference
My horses never pushed on me. I was always "lead mare". However, the day I put my mare to sleep she shoved me away from her with her head. I still don't understand, but she was in a lot of pain.
All animals deserve kindness and respect.
I'd like to see an example of how you gently and firmly answer that question without coming across as aggressive. At the end of the day a horse is 10 times bigger than I am so it can be hard to stand my ground to an animal that could just bowl me straight over.
Watch this video th-cam.com/video/u10WTmcI2xU/w-d-xo.html. It shows a horse pushing and mugging me and then follows with me addressing the pushing. But you have to watch the video the whole way through because the stuff you are wanting some ideas about begins about half way through the video.
Great video, but I am so sorry ( I am an amateur with horses) this video didn't help me as much as I thought. So what am I supposed to do?
Can't believe how ignorant we've become in relation to our animals. Everyone thinks they are pets to cuddle and faun over. All animals are to know their place. They work for you, not themselves. They don't have human emotions and are clearly confused by the behavior of most people. Firm and consistent, always, not mean and rough, and you will rarely have a problem with any animal.
Excellent video. Thank you. Can you show us how you would do it different pls. ( the video with the horse and girl)
OK, so I was at a barn the other day, first day meeting this new horse, and he did walk into my space a bit as I was standing there, talking to the owner. He was also veering left into me a tad bit as I tried to walk him to be groomed, again, getting into my space. So, what should I have done in these instances? I asked the owner what this meant, and they said the horse was just saying hi. It didn't seem like this was the case, but I'm new to horses.. So, now I can see he was asking me who was in charge. What actions could I have taken to tell him I was in charge in these specific cases?
Interesting but is it the same for both mares and stallions or only for one of them? I am curious since the herd's mares usually have a matriarch who is the main mare and the leader stallion as long as I know and a trainer I know uses horse body language to act like the leader horses and keep the trained horse in the place of foal which is "I obey the trainer for they are my parent/matriarch/leading stallion"
From my experience it is not a gender specific behaviour. It's innate in all horses.
To me it comes down to one thing.. the power comes from the one that's feeding the other.. and that's in ALL life forms.
Thank you.. this really helped.♥️
Well, thank you for clarifying the question, but you didn't record the ANSWER of how to go about to establish yourself as being in charge of the horse.
That's true I didn't answer the question how to stop a horse pushing on you, but I did answer the much more important question of why they do it. If you understand 'why' you can come up with your own 'how' and won't need to copy somebody else's method which may or may not be right for your horse.
Thank you so much for the clear and concise answer!!!
Love this info!!! This will help so much!!! 💜🧡💛💙💚
MUY buen video , bien explicado , aprendí mucho en pocos minutos , gracias Señor
LOL, dogs ask the same. They need a leader also and don't respect you if it's them.
So do women.
True and so do little children.
Mande Peer, are you a feminist or just in denial? P.S.: I will die someday so your wish will come true. Bit of a harsh punishment for just a little comment which I find to be true. Are you one of the females that use to operate the guillotine in old France?
Dogs have a very specific ritual to establish that. It consists of 3 parts. First, is direct eye contact. Then, you bark very softly in the dogs ear. Finally, you put your head over top of the dogs. Some dogs will accept this from the beginning. Some will try to resist it. It's a good idea to have a firm grip on the collar in case you have to wrestle the dog into submission. If the dog wins you will have one that behaves like the horses in this video. If you win, you will have a dog that is loyal and obedient.
Excellently said. That is the fast way to establish it.
Very good point Ross
Just like bringing up children, no different.Babies very quickly establish who is going to be boss,and if you are so weak that you are given the run around by a baby,you deserve the years of misery both you and the child will suffer as a result.I'm not advocating neglect,or of showing loving care, just ensuring all due care is given and showing that you are entitled to some life also.There will be a challenge to this,and your child will not thank you for being a wimp, that makes him feel vulnerable.I guess it's much the same with horses, except they're bigger, so you have to be clearer.
👍. Good Clear Answer!
how to give that answer then? I've seen very experienced raiders to instantly slap the horse across the face when they start to push them around. Is this the way to go?
Thank you 😊
Clear message but no clear answer. As in, what to do to let the horse know whos in charge.
I have limited experience with horses but i know it can be dificult to get them to move if they dont want to. Sometimes they will even ignore food to stay where they like.
Sometimes they are just eating and completly ignore humans around them. Sometimes they see a human in the distance and start running to check him out and will kick and jump to get attention and basically ask to be petted. Other times they just want to smell you and they leave when they notice you didnt put on any deodorant.
You can also push a horse too hard and they will get mad. I've done it and the horse will throw a temper tantrum, but all you need to do is stop everything and make up to the horse, it will calm down and you can continue as normal.
Thank you! It is so similar to dog behavior. They all need clear answers!
Well, frankly no. There was not an answer on how to give the horse a clear answer when he's pushing you.
The clear answer is simple. he who moves the others feet first is in control. Move his feet away from you and you are the one in charge.
Definitely insightful, but how can you know for certain which gesture is a question and which is a show of affection ? Seems like you could easily mix them up.
I deal with that a lot bringing in new horses all the time. Watch their eyes, if their eye is soft and they are just gently nudging you but stop when you try and correct, them its probably affection. If their eyes are not soft. open wide, ears erect and they don't respond at all to you, then I would think that is a test, but again every horse is different and you just have to be the same with every horse, all the time, firm fair and consistent.
yea, but do you push back or what...I was waiting to hear the answer...is there another video where he explains what to do or do we have to send money somewhere ?
read the whole thread and you will find the answers you are looking for
I love learning this stuff. Are there horses who wont yield to the person, and want to remain dominant ?
Or is it more typical for horses to want to be led by, subordinate to people ?
I have found, even with the most dominant horse that they dont want to be in charge. they would rather just follow and know what to do and where they stand in the herd. I have dealt with some very dominant horses. i had one when I first started working with them that would not load in a trailer. I had moved and he was the last horse left on the property. 2 days of trying to load him, a vet came, sedated him and he still wouldn't get on. Another experienced horseman tried and failed. I finally called a friend who is really good with horses and within 45 minutes she had him on and looked at me and said "you know what I am going to do, right?" I said yup, your taking him off and she did that three more times until he just loaded on his own, all in all it took about an hour and a half. She said something that has stuck with me and shaped my way of handling these animals to this day. She said "You are not going to drag an 1100 pound horse on the trailer, nor can you trick him on. You need to work with his mind and gain his trust and respect, then you will be able to work with him"and now he is easy to handle and loads at will!
Forget me Knot Equine Rescue inc thank you !!!
I was mucking out a stable and then the horse started to push me , towards the wall and I had to push her back . I was shook😂
Very clear, great advice.
This is critical information for a suburban mom at eleven pm
Great video. Same principles with donkeys?
I'd like to see this theory applied to the interaction between humans and ants.
You have shown an example of how not to lean into a pushy horse now how about one showing us the correct way.
The video he used, with the girl, is from Thinklikeahorse. The girl goes on, in that video, to show the correct way to lunge a pushy horse. He should have shown that here, but you can find it at Thinklikeahorse here on youtube.
Horses are stronger than people. How can you win a pushing war? Also when a horse meets a new human, does it try to kick the human to establish dominance?
Horses are stronger, but they are also very submissive - which is why we ride horses and not tigers. You don't have to out-muscle a horse to get a change of thought. If you have a horse that has been taught to push on people you only have to make pushing on you a little less comfortable than not pushing on you then they will change their thought as to what is the better idea. When you answer their question with clarity, the pushing stops because they understand their role in the relationship and are comfortable to not push on you. This is how it works in any relationship for a horse, whether with a human or another horse.
So how do you give that answer?
This was a great video, thank you.
Really well explained, thank you!