@@DanLeeBoatbuilding One day, if you want to free up space in the workshop, I'll gladly finish the model. We could arrange a collaboration and create the model and the real thing. It's a shame that the shipping cost to Brazil must be considerable, but it is possible.
Dan another terrific and informative video; you are sharing details that others would consider trade secret! Please comment on your choice of cutters and climb vs. conventional cutting. You mention surface finish several times and go to the effort of a full depth finishing pass. You did show us a compression tool at the start of the video, which I presume was NOT used on solid wood, rather it was a teaching aid in the moment. Can you do a segment on cutting tools?
Thanks, I don't believe in hiding secrets of the process away, sharing ideas and discussing them is how we all learn together. I am using a compression bit for this, I often do on solid wood as it reduces the breakout on the top surface. Not really needed as I am dimensioning parts post cutting but I just like the way these bits perform. These must of course be accounted for when selecting your plunge method. I almost always cut with a conventional pass when profiling like this as the finish achieved is generally better. I would favour a climb pass when there is more risk of breakout of the grain, for example in an open milling scenario like the bevelling of the finished frames. These are the sorts of things that will be included in depth within my CNC course, in fact I am beginning to shoot the lesson on cutters today.
Love it! I'm currently refurbishing a Norwegian classic, Polar 22ft, converting it to electric drive. Mostly made from fiberglass, but the interior will be done in mainly mahogany/teak. This will be of good inspiration for when I'm CNC-milling out the interior parts. 👌
I am not a boat builder but I build model aircraft. I have been using CAD for years and a laser cutter but your use of the CNC machine to cut bevels etc is inspiring. I will have to try. I might well sign up to your course.
I also scratch build RC Model aircraft using a CNC machine but simply use a 1mm tool to cut the parts. There's a world of difference between sheet Balsa, Lite Ply and the 26mm solid stock he's using!
@@bobdylan7120 To cut out sheet material I tend to use my laser cutter. However I have found the need to carve propellers for rubber powered models and up to now have carved them using various knives. I think it might be possible to create better balanced and possibly thinner blades using a small CNC router. The wood I use is balsa but fairly hard and generally from 35mm thick stock.
I might be able to increase the frequency one day. Right now I’m a little limited on how much time I can get on the project but I hope to increase that over the next year or so.
I just finished up cutting coamings, sponsons, and frames for a hydro i'm building. I had to trace them all on wax paper and then transfer to the plywood and boards. Its time consuming for sure. If i had the option for fusion and a cnc cutter. I would have chosen that any day. My hands and back were fried after all the drawing and cutting.
My sad little cnc manages about 1mm doc at 900mm/min running a 1/4" cutter so it's fun to see what an actual machine can do. Definitely time to upgrade :) Really enjoyed this video because it shows what's actually involved in getting the CNC to do what you actually intend.
There is quite a lot behind it and soo many variables involved. This can all be done on a lesser machine but like you say, small passes and a lot more time!
Interesting to see basically the same procedure that I've come up to as well. Putting first mounting holes and screwing the board down. With plywood it's essential to keep it straight down to the wasteboard. (no vacuum table here...) I haven't been using the finishing pass option so far. Maybe I should give it a try. My machine is much slower as well. I normally use quite small bits and I've had a lot of trouble doing deep groove cuts. The machine's rigidity isn't good enough to do deep cuts like that... Keep up the work! Looks great and the videos are top notch!
There’s not much better than screws for a reliable hold down method. You certainly want to avoid hitting them though! Finishing passes work well, if your machine rigidity isn’t great then they can remove possible stepped lines between passes, you do want to make sure nothing can move though on the final pass.
@@DanLeeBoatbuilding Yeah. I've hit into a screw one time. That was my fault, I made last minute changes and didn't check the screw holes again! 😅 (instant death to router bit, fortunately 4mm and not that expensive)
Nice job Dan. I like the idea of spotting the screw holes. I always held stuff using stainless screws. If the cutter nicks one that is in tight, it just cuts it with out drama. Use a normal modern steel screw and you a ringing your bit supplier. Found out while attending the school of hard knocks. 20mm 3 flute solid carbide are not cheap.
@@DanLeeBoatbuilding Possibly. All brass screws I have seen here in NZ are slotted. Stainless is softer and I use square drives in the portable tools. Have had to flatten a large very heavy slab. Put a spoilboard on the machine Format4 profitH200. Just used wedges to get it to the best level. Flattened one side to turned it over for the vacuum pods. Forman asked me how I held it. Told him Newton clamps. Just had a puzzled look and walked away. It was so heavy, around 70kgs.
The plan right now is that this will be the demonstrator/show boat with the hopes of then taking orders for other builds. It certainly isn’t cheap to do, right now I’m not actually sure how I’ll pay for it all but I’m chipping away at things a bit at a time.
Still great to watch the process, Dan. I think we just have to accept that not all parts of boat-building can be "exciting" - a lot of it is repetitious, and there's often too much sanding to do.
That’s great to know, I was debating whether or not to put out the video as I thought it would be a bit too boring but I’m pleased to know you still like to see the less exciting stuff shown. I am not looking forward to the sanding stage that’s for sure!
Thank you for this series and practical details ! Maybe a dum question, but I'll ask it anyway: is there an optimal finish on parts meants to be glued (depending on viscosity of the glue/resin), and a risk of "overfinished" parts that would be grasping less under glued (I'm thinking of aircraft where a sanding prep may be done, but figured this may apply here)?
I'm glad you are enjoying it! That's not a dumb question at all and very true. Yes you could "over finish" parts to be glued and ideally you'd want them slightly roughed up. Probably more like the part I showed at the end that was cut with a slightly dulled bit would actually be better for the glued surface. It's part of the reason I didn't try and get a better finish on the stem when I machined it, the slightly ridged finish is actually ideal for a glueing surface.
When I started to program NC machines well over 40 years ago, there was no CAD, the wasnt any computer to make it CNC, NC tape machines, a paper tape was used to transfer program from computer to the NC machine or you wrote each line by hand at the machine and I see the basic codes haven't changed, G00, G01, G02 etc
That must have been a time consuming process! Some years ago I used to operate Bridgeport Ineract machines, probably half way between the two. Largely manual but they could accept CAD programs via RS232 link. The CAD software really does some clever stuff these days but yes like you say the codes at the core of it all probably haven’t really changed much.
Great Video. Thank you. I intend to buy a 4x4 CNC. In your files, is there a part that is longer than 4 feet long? If that's the case, I might have to reconsider and get 4x8 CNC.
I would highly recommend going for 4x8 if you can. Lots of the elements in this boat are larger than 4’ and I think you’d only be able to cut 40-50% of the required parts on a 4x4’ machine.
Definitely not the most exciting video, true, but fascinating. It's hard to come to grips for some that this is a new and extremely useful process in wood boatbuilding; an alternative, not a replacement for it... You can still build a covered wagon and cross America in it if you want, or you can just rent a U-Haul. 😊
Very interesting project, indeed. I continue to be amazed, however, that you are obviously more worried about losing your hearing than you are about losing your eyesight. Or is there another reason why you are wearing hearing protection, but no safety glasses when working in the vicinity of highly accelerated rotating machine parts?
Looking at all those intricate parts I think there’s no way I’d take on a build of this complexity without a good CNC machine. And additionally, its pretty obvious this plan was drawn with CNC in mind. Making all those small components by hand would be painfully slow and never as accurate. I want one.
Yes this boat was designed specifically to be built utilising CNC. It could be done without and one builder is currently cutting their frame components manually but CNC is really the way to go with this boat.
i just cutting parts out plywood 3/4" size and i used 4mm downcut bit, my problem have if cutting wood X-line left to right or Y-line up to down all go OK, but if need cut angle etc, 45 degree then sometime bit vibrating lot and i hear thats far, i worry broken bit or what doing, why machine doing thats ? i looking cutting and bit and spindle vibrating lot shake all spindle. i do same cut out off parts at plywood i used taps and little bit stay wood too not parts cut full, you say you keep onion 2mm i keep onion about 0,5mm all parts can keep in sheet and take off little knife.
A 4mm bit is quite small especially for cutting 3/4" plywood. I would probably cut with a minimum of a 1/4" bit for that. You may find this helps. What type of machine are you using and how rigid is it? 0.5mm onion is fine for flat sheet materials like plywood. A thicker layer is required for sawn solid wood as there is more variation in the surface to allow for.
@@DanLeeBoatbuilding my cnc have similar than you, but smallest, aluminiumm and plywood frame, 800W ER16 spindle, nema 3Nm motors, has made lot 3/4 and 1/2 hard plywood parts. working well but only vibrate bit lot rouch if run angle or little bit if run round hole. i not understand why, must be test 1/4 - 6mm bit next time, down cut rouch vibrate but today morning i test cut 3/4 plywood piece off and up cut 4mm bit working silent and not vibrate first test, ok,thanks, need test more, im totally newbie sorry.
@@DanLeeBoatbuilding i cutting 1-2mm pass normal, i know i need made strongest Z axis plate, i has made but need change parts next time if all strongest plate has made, i made now aluminium 20mm beam heads new and Z axis plates new x and Z axis move need change whit aluminium now, first prototype working well but need change better parts has only prototype plates now whit plywood. i has plan Z and spindle plate new today start draw new hole all to plate, and made both side Z plate fence then not can vibrate or move all plate if move spindle fast. perfect if has all steel plates but not can machining plates anywere traight and holes and treath. aluminium and plywood can do. first prototype all has plywood 3/4" 21mm. but aluminium have better strongest. plywood frame workin well if not need cut fast and deep. today has draw new plates and try search but not know were have boat frame drawing what can move to Vcarve and cut out plywood whit cnc. want future made RC boat same than you have. thanks you good videos and help and answer to me.
A common question this one. The boat is not designed to allow for this. The main issue being that if frame components were cut from plywood, only 50-60% of the grain would be going in the correct direction for that component. There would be a large portion of short grain across the frames profile that would offer little to no strength to the part.
Dan, the worst videos on youtube are the "talking head" videos of any subject. Your build is interesting but even if you didn't talk at all but just showed us what your doing, we would know all. We used t do this kind of stuff and enjoy seeing it. The too much description of what your doing and why is already known and unessasary. 😊 You must have a million dollars of machinery they too. It would be nice to see more hand work too.
I get what you are saying and think the same for most videos I watch. I was unsure about putting out such a “talky video” however, people seem to appreciate the details of how I do things and most of what I included is based on questions to date. There will be plenty of hand work to follow on this project, my machines will only play their role for the first 10-20% of the build. And $1M is waaaaay over the top for what I’ve got there I bet it doesn’t amount to even 5% of that.
@@DamianPenney traditional boatbuilding is about creating beauty by the mastery of your hands and bringing life into a bunch of old boards. It;s the process not the result, but don't mind me I'm old and like every othe art form it's gone the way of the computer and it is sad. I'm sad for you
![เปิด อาณาจักร หมื่นล้าน "สาระตั้ม" l [Nickynachat]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/3XE0nPF4YkQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Great job Dan !!! I just purchased the CNC course after seeing this video…..just waiting eating my nails…..eager to start 😂😂
Brilliant, welcome on board!
This entire series is absolutely outstanding
Thats great to hear, glad you are enjoying it 👍
Always following Dan Lee's constructions. One day I'll build a model of this gem!
You can finish mine off if you like 😉
@@DanLeeBoatbuilding One day, if you want to free up space in the workshop, I'll gladly finish the model. We could arrange a collaboration and create the model and the real thing. It's a shame that the shipping cost to Brazil must be considerable, but it is possible.
Great video Dan, every day is a school day 👍🏼
It sure is 👍
As much as I will never at my age attempt to operate a cnc machine I thoroughly enjoy you showing your skills. Fascinating and well presented
you’re never too old to learn !
It's not as complicated as you may think and Dan's explanation of the process was very well thought out and presented.
Honestly they are not that hard, probably harder to learn how to sharpen a chisel properly!
Operation of the cnc is the easy bit. Using the cad software abit more involving. Fusion 360 is great software to play with and free for hobbyist
Production is ramping up! Exciting!
Very interesting to see some more of the steps and seeing the small improvements yoir adding as you go!
Dan, this was totally exhilarating to watch.
I find this incredibly interesting. Pretty damn cool.
Dan another terrific and informative video; you are sharing details that others would consider trade secret! Please comment on your choice of cutters and climb vs. conventional cutting. You mention surface finish several times and go to the effort of a full depth finishing pass. You did show us a compression tool at the start of the video, which I presume was NOT used on solid wood, rather it was a teaching aid in the moment. Can you do a segment on cutting tools?
Thanks, I don't believe in hiding secrets of the process away, sharing ideas and discussing them is how we all learn together.
I am using a compression bit for this, I often do on solid wood as it reduces the breakout on the top surface. Not really needed as I am dimensioning parts post cutting but I just like the way these bits perform. These must of course be accounted for when selecting your plunge method.
I almost always cut with a conventional pass when profiling like this as the finish achieved is generally better. I would favour a climb pass when there is more risk of breakout of the grain, for example in an open milling scenario like the bevelling of the finished frames.
These are the sorts of things that will be included in depth within my CNC course, in fact I am beginning to shoot the lesson on cutters today.
The CNC operation beautifully explained Dan.
Thank you for all the videos and your efforts.
Love it! I'm currently refurbishing a Norwegian classic, Polar 22ft, converting it to electric drive. Mostly made from fiberglass, but the interior will be done in mainly mahogany/teak. This will be of good inspiration for when I'm CNC-milling out the interior parts. 👌
I am not a boat builder but I build model aircraft. I have been using CAD for years and a laser cutter but your use of the CNC machine to cut bevels etc is inspiring. I will have to try. I might well sign up to your course.
I also scratch build RC Model aircraft using a CNC machine but simply use a 1mm tool to cut the parts.
There's a world of difference between sheet Balsa, Lite Ply and the 26mm solid stock he's using!
@@bobdylan7120 To cut out sheet material I tend to use my laser cutter. However I have found the need to carve propellers for rubber powered models and up to now have carved them using various knives. I think it might be possible to create better balanced and possibly thinner blades using a small CNC router. The wood I use is balsa but fairly hard and generally from 35mm thick stock.
just made coffee and sitting down. 2 weeks is to long! but i understand, perfection takes time!
I might be able to increase the frequency one day. Right now I’m a little limited on how much time I can get on the project but I hope to increase that over the next year or so.
Great to see how involved, and amount of work that is behind getting to the stage of frame construction. 👍
I just finished up cutting coamings, sponsons, and frames for a hydro i'm building. I had to trace them all on wax paper and then transfer to the plywood and boards. Its time consuming for sure. If i had the option for fusion and a cnc cutter. I would have chosen that any day. My hands and back were fried after all the drawing and cutting.
My sad little cnc manages about 1mm doc at 900mm/min running a 1/4" cutter so it's fun to see what an actual machine can do. Definitely time to upgrade :) Really enjoyed this video because it shows what's actually involved in getting the CNC to do what you actually intend.
There is quite a lot behind it and soo many variables involved. This can all be done on a lesser machine but like you say, small passes and a lot more time!
Fantastic!
Interesting to see basically the same procedure that I've come up to as well. Putting first mounting holes and screwing the board down. With plywood it's essential to keep it straight down to the wasteboard. (no vacuum table here...)
I haven't been using the finishing pass option so far. Maybe I should give it a try. My machine is much slower as well. I normally use quite small bits and I've had a lot of trouble doing deep groove cuts. The machine's rigidity isn't good enough to do deep cuts like that...
Keep up the work! Looks great and the videos are top notch!
There’s not much better than screws for a reliable hold down method. You certainly want to avoid hitting them though!
Finishing passes work well, if your machine rigidity isn’t great then they can remove possible stepped lines between passes, you do want to make sure nothing can move though on the final pass.
@@DanLeeBoatbuilding Yeah. I've hit into a screw one time. That was my fault, I made last minute changes and didn't check the screw holes again! 😅
(instant death to router bit, fortunately 4mm and not that expensive)
Nice job Dan. I like the idea of spotting the screw holes. I always held stuff using stainless screws. If the cutter nicks one that is in tight, it just cuts it with out drama. Use a normal modern steel screw and you a ringing your bit supplier. Found out while attending the school of hard knocks. 20mm 3 flute solid carbide are not cheap.
That's a good one, I guess brass screws would also work for this as well! Yes damaging your favourite carbide bit is not much fun.
@@DanLeeBoatbuilding Possibly. All brass screws I have seen here in NZ are slotted. Stainless is softer and I use square drives in the portable tools. Have had to flatten a large very heavy slab. Put a spoilboard on the machine Format4 profitH200. Just used wedges to get it to the best level. Flattened one side to turned it over for the vacuum pods. Forman asked me how I held it. Told him Newton clamps. Just had a puzzled look and walked away. It was so heavy, around 70kgs.
excellent, thanks👍
As much as like this, I do hope the end product is sold! This project can't be cheap just from material costs.
The plan right now is that this will be the demonstrator/show boat with the hopes of then taking orders for other builds. It certainly isn’t cheap to do, right now I’m not actually sure how I’ll pay for it all but I’m chipping away at things a bit at a time.
Still great to watch the process, Dan. I think we just have to accept that not all parts of boat-building can be "exciting" - a lot of it is repetitious, and there's often too much sanding to do.
That’s great to know, I was debating whether or not to put out the video as I thought it would be a bit too boring but I’m pleased to know you still like to see the less exciting stuff shown. I am not looking forward to the sanding stage that’s for sure!
@@DanLeeBoatbuilding Yes, I once heard a boat builder comment that boat building was 10% inspiration, 10% perspiration and 80% sanding.
God I hope not, thats gonna be a lot of sanding hours 😮💨
Thank you for this series and practical details !
Maybe a dum question, but I'll ask it anyway: is there an optimal finish on parts meants to be glued (depending on viscosity of the glue/resin), and a risk of "overfinished" parts that would be grasping less under glued (I'm thinking of aircraft where a sanding prep may be done, but figured this may apply here)?
I'm glad you are enjoying it! That's not a dumb question at all and very true. Yes you could "over finish" parts to be glued and ideally you'd want them slightly roughed up. Probably more like the part I showed at the end that was cut with a slightly dulled bit would actually be better for the glued surface.
It's part of the reason I didn't try and get a better finish on the stem when I machined it, the slightly ridged finish is actually ideal for a glueing surface.
When I started to program NC machines well over 40 years ago, there was no CAD, the wasnt any computer to make it CNC, NC tape machines, a paper tape was used to transfer program from computer to the NC machine or you wrote each line by hand at the machine and I see the basic codes haven't changed, G00, G01, G02 etc
That must have been a time consuming process! Some years ago I used to operate Bridgeport Ineract machines, probably half way between the two. Largely manual but they could accept CAD programs via RS232 link. The CAD software really does some clever stuff these days but yes like you say the codes at the core of it all probably haven’t really changed much.
Great Video. Thank you. I intend to buy a 4x4 CNC. In your files, is there a part that is longer than 4 feet long? If that's the case, I might have to reconsider and get 4x8 CNC.
I would highly recommend going for 4x8 if you can. Lots of the elements in this boat are larger than 4’ and I think you’d only be able to cut 40-50% of the required parts on a 4x4’ machine.
@@DanLeeBoatbuilding That makes sense. Thanks for your suggestion.
Looking very nice! What kind of wood do you prefer to use for the frames? Looks like cedar.
I am using Utile for this build.
I know leather factories use software to do this, maybe you could find something online
Definitely not the most exciting video, true, but fascinating. It's hard to come to grips for some that this is a new and extremely useful process in wood boatbuilding; an alternative, not a replacement for it... You can still build a covered wagon and cross America in it if you want, or you can just rent a U-Haul. 😊
Very true, well said 👍
⭐🙂👍
Very interesting project, indeed. I continue to be amazed, however, that you are obviously more worried about losing your hearing than you are about losing your eyesight. Or is there another reason why you are wearing hearing protection, but no safety glasses when working in the vicinity of highly accelerated rotating machine parts?
Looking at all those intricate parts I think there’s no way I’d take on a build of this complexity without a good CNC machine. And additionally, its pretty obvious this plan was drawn with CNC in mind. Making all those small components by hand would be painfully slow and never as accurate. I want one.
Yes this boat was designed specifically to be built utilising CNC. It could be done without and one builder is currently cutting their frame components manually but CNC is really the way to go with this boat.
i just cutting parts out plywood 3/4" size and i used 4mm downcut bit, my problem have if cutting wood X-line left to right or Y-line up to down all go OK, but if need cut angle etc, 45 degree then sometime bit vibrating lot and i hear thats far, i worry broken bit or what doing, why machine doing thats ? i looking cutting and bit and spindle vibrating lot shake all spindle. i do same cut out off parts at plywood i used taps and little bit stay wood too not parts cut full, you say you keep onion 2mm i keep onion about 0,5mm all parts can keep in sheet and take off little knife.
A 4mm bit is quite small especially for cutting 3/4" plywood. I would probably cut with a minimum of a 1/4" bit for that. You may find this helps. What type of machine are you using and how rigid is it?
0.5mm onion is fine for flat sheet materials like plywood. A thicker layer is required for sawn solid wood as there is more variation in the surface to allow for.
@@DanLeeBoatbuilding my cnc have similar than you, but smallest, aluminiumm and plywood frame, 800W ER16 spindle, nema 3Nm motors, has made lot 3/4 and 1/2 hard plywood parts. working well but only vibrate bit lot rouch if run angle or little bit if run round hole. i not understand why, must be test 1/4 - 6mm bit next time, down cut rouch vibrate but today morning i test cut 3/4 plywood piece off and up cut 4mm bit working silent and not vibrate first test, ok,thanks, need test more, im totally newbie sorry.
It sounds like your machine is struggling when it is cutting across end grain. What depth of cut are you making with each pass?
@@DanLeeBoatbuilding i cutting 1-2mm pass normal, i know i need made strongest Z axis plate, i has made but need change parts next time if all strongest plate has made, i made now aluminium 20mm beam heads new and Z axis plates new x and Z axis move need change whit aluminium now, first prototype working well but need change better parts has only prototype plates now whit plywood. i has plan Z and spindle plate new today start draw new hole all to plate, and made both side Z plate fence then not can vibrate or move all plate if move spindle fast. perfect if has all steel plates but not can machining plates anywere traight and holes and treath. aluminium and plywood can do. first prototype all has plywood 3/4" 21mm. but aluminium have better strongest. plywood frame workin well if not need cut fast and deep. today has draw new plates and try search but not know were have boat frame drawing what can move to Vcarve and cut out plywood whit cnc. want future made RC boat same than you have. thanks you good videos and help and answer to me.
how thick is your onion skin in general?
About 2mm, I am setting my Z zero at 26mm high and cutting to a depth of 24mm for the frame components.
Could you use a Marine grade high quality Plywood for your structural interior pieces?
A common question this one. The boat is not designed to allow for this. The main issue being that if frame components were cut from plywood, only 50-60% of the grain would be going in the correct direction for that component. There would be a large portion of short grain across the frames profile that would offer little to no strength to the part.
Dan, the worst videos on youtube are the "talking head" videos of any subject. Your build is interesting but even if you didn't talk at all but just showed us what your doing, we would know all. We used t do this kind of stuff and enjoy seeing it. The too much description of what your doing and why is already known and unessasary. 😊 You must have a million dollars of machinery they too. It would be nice to see more hand work too.
I get what you are saying and think the same for most videos I watch. I was unsure about putting out such a “talky video” however, people seem to appreciate the details of how I do things and most of what I included is based on questions to date. There will be plenty of hand work to follow on this project, my machines will only play their role for the first 10-20% of the build. And $1M is waaaaay over the top for what I’ve got there I bet it doesn’t amount to even 5% of that.
you're not a boatbuilder, you are a computer operator.
That's a sad way to look at the process, the computer is just another tool.
@@DamianPenney traditional boatbuilding is about creating beauty by the mastery of your hands and bringing life into a bunch of old boards. It;s the process not the result, but don't mind me I'm old and like every othe art form it's gone the way of the computer and it is sad. I'm sad for you
@daveakfu I don't consider this a traditional build in any way, its a modern wooden boat build.