Hey guys! I hope this video helps you guys out with Air to Air Refueling in any aircraft that you choose, if you guys want more specificity about refueling particular aircraft let me know in the comments here and we will see what we can do!
I remember one particular CF-18 pilot who got a new callsign because he started to oscillate while A/A refueling. He sheared the business end of his refueling probe off, earning him the callsign, "Bobbitt".
@@Spudknocker Hey, Spud, are you aware of the fact that the FEDS (firing evaluation display system) HUD symbology is modelled in DCS? I guess it isn't classified anymore...
Hi man, this is very helpful thank you! Is there a difference between the steam and web version? Can I access all servers either way? (i.e. can play with some on the web version from the steam version?)
Thank you for this video. I started my addiction to DCS about 1.5 years ago. I tried AAR a couple of times, wasn´t even close. Saw this video on release but just as you mention i lacked the experience of how the aircraft behaved. After a while it just became something to hard to try and again as you mention, it suppose to be fun. Yesterday I gave it a try again and was better than normal, still ended in rage quit and frustration tho. After curing my hangryness i watched this video again and really got the message this time. Today i tried again. I identified 3 things I was doing wrong. 1. Trying to match speed via HUD to tanker 2. Chaseing the basket rather than trying to fly formation and 3. Allowing my self to get stressed out. Today, thanks to you´re video I got it right! from 50% to full, 2 re-connections and I was smileying the whole time. "transfer complete" and I almost jumped out of my seat! :D Thank you again, for my best moment in DCS so far! :D
I'm an experienced airline pilot. I can fly a single engine ILS to landing perfect and dead on without breaking a sweat. I frequently even get called a showoff in recurrent training. But this? I feel my chest tense up and my blood pressure go sky high, and I have yet to be able to do it.
3 crucial tricks that helped me. 1. Curvature of 20 - this greatly depends on your hardware joystick I am sure. Try higher and adjust down eventually. Maybe start with 30? The problem with low curvature is small movement on the hardware translate to such big inputs in the game where it is impossible to maintain stability and the tanker and your plane with keep swaying left and right and up and down. When this happens you just want to kill yourself. 2. Vertical Speed (VS) indicator - look at all the youtube tutorials and how stable their VS is, it is always stable as in it doesn't fluctuate quickly and also doesn't go to a high value. high value being maybe 80-100+. this is the KEY in maintaining stability and the ability to creep forward to the basket. Stable numbers are slow changing and they go from 0,10,20,30,40,50, at a very slow and stable pace. 3. Autopilot ATTH. Otherwise known see Attitude hold - DO not confuse with BALT. I notice this really helps in keeping the Vertical Speed stable otherwise it fluctuate up and down too much for me. You can try with and without but i always able to maintain basket connection easily with this turned on. The other thing I like to do is keeping a good distance from tanker, not caring about the basket first. Then achieve my VS stability first and foremost. If I feel the tanker swaying left or right too much I say F you to it and keep my eye to the heading indicator making sure it is stable and doesn't change. Eventually the tanker will behave and not move as much because it knows your eye is on a fixed heading. Then you use throttle adjustment to creep forward - this is where it gets super hard because you kind off need to adjust it constantly (this is a true SKILL to master) - the effort is almost like landing on carrier where you keep adjusting the throttle to adjust pitch. But obviously here the throttle don't adjust pitch (with ATTH turned on, and that is why its easier). Once you connect to basket, remove ATTH and turn on BALT (barometric altitude hold) and your challenge from here is to match the tankers speed. This is where you use reference points and whatever to help you. I find using BALT after basket connection so be super easy. HOWEVER, BALT does not work for me when the Tanker is banking - if the tanker does that banking thing you might as well not try since it is way more difficult to do. Once you successfully do this you can try mucking about with Automatic Throttle Control (ATC) to make things even easier but using ATC in refueling is also a skill that needs developing. I rarely turn on ATC unless I am in a situation where the speed of my plane and tanker is matching perfectly - which means I am not adjusting throttle stick as much and I 'feel' I could apply ATC. It's all about feeling. Man I can write more but I hope the above will help NEWBIES who sucks at refueling. So the above tricks is only for when the tanker is flying straight.
@@erfguuipo8084 The ATTitude Hold can help, certainly, so long as you remember to take out what you put in. If feels jerky because of that sometimes. The best fix for PIO I've found is to get those curves changed. Just a little to lengthen the input-to-output ratio a bit will pull the over-correction out of the small inputs. I used to ATT hold all the time in the -18, but since I changed my pitch curve a bit I haven't needed it. I prefer not to use it, actually. The other item is the speed. A knot or two of speed added or lost will change the pitch up and down, causing PIO. Getting that speed matched and trim set for that speed is key and should be done prior to the approach on the basket and will require a little less input on the stick over time.
You are very knowledgeable and so accurate and i commend you for this video. You sound like a simulator instructor. I was a KC-135 boom operator for 6 years and KC-10 boom operator and instructor boom operator for 14 years. What are you saying about the whole A/R scenario is so accurate. We talked to the receiver aircraft for two reasons. 1) to relax the pilot and 2) pass any information if required. If you have any questions or comments from the boom operator side of the tanker, i can help you. .... During boom refueling, the receiver should stop forward movement two to three feet from the extended boom (contact position and let the boom operator extend the boom to effect the contact. A-10's, B-1's, and E-4's (747) were the ones we had to be careful the most because their receptacles are in front and they will try to fly on to the boom.
10:18 "Pull your probe right out of the drogue or the boom operator will simply refuse to stick his boom into your receptacle. Now let's start stroking the throttle." I know exactly what you did there.
Thank you Spudknocker! After watching all the available videos on TH-cam, getting a new stick and some pretty intense practice, I’ve finally managed to connect to the tanker in the F-16C (KC-135) and the F/A-18C (S-3B) this weekend. As you probably already know it has been a long and frustrating journey so I’m understandably ecstatic. Thanks to everyone who took the time to post videos on TH-cam. I watched them all and they are full of invaluable advice and wisdom, pure gold. What I learned (and used) to be able to perform air to air refuelling: 1-Patience. 2-Relax-don’t death grip the stick. 3-Small premptive corrections- if you try to correct movement you’re already too late and you find yourself in PIO. 4-Learn to stabilise in the horizontal plane and vertical plane separately. With time you will be able to do both. 5-Eyes on the pod, not on the basket. 6-As you get closer to the tanker and after you connect, watch and move with the tanker, your reliance on the HUD will diminish. 7-Listen to the engines-much easier in the F-16 than the F-18 but the sound of the engines is a good surrogate marker for what they’re doing. 8-If PIO starts, throttle back, give yourself some space and try again. 9-Practice formation flying with the tanker with the explicit aim of just formation flying and progressively try to get closer and closer. 10-Practice 11-Practice 12-Practice I’d also like to add that I do it have a VR headset and I was able to tank using a Logitech Extreme 3D Pro which is a very basic stick that I bought as an interim measure until I could get something like a Warthog or Virpil, but it surprised me and actually did the trick, so it is possible to connect to a tanker with a £40 stick, not easy but not impossible.
One of the things I found that helped me out and learn how to Aerial refuel was practicing formation flights. I went to the aerobatics server all the time and just flew with random people, eventually I got proficient enough where I was able to do aerial refueling with a pretty good success rate. Still one of the hardest things to do in DCS World, I find it easier to land an F-14 on a banking carriers lol
@@Spudknocker Ok this should have been your Number 1 point. Go learn to fly close formation with your buddies. Once you have that mastered then you can try tanking. Watch your overtake at the tanker when you prod. If you are falling out after you get in its because you had too much overtake. DCS will let you get away with way more than real life where its less than 5kts but if you are that fast then you will drop out once you have connected. Ideally imagine you are walking the probe into the basket don't rush and never ever look at the basket just fly your formation references on the Tanker as you close. .
Yes I gave up and so did 3 of my flight buddies we always find a place to land and refuel. I would rather land at a enemy base and refuel then to try this shit. I gave up after a year of trying
Unless, I missed it, you forgot to mention that when you set the Tanker's TACAN frequency, you also need to enable A-A mode. You also didn't mention how to use the lights on the button of the tanker to line up your plane as this is important for planes that do not have extended refueling probes. Another tip is once you are hooked to the refueling boom, you need to pick a location on the tanker that is on a reference point of the frame of the canopy or HUD, and then keep the two reference points together like you do with the needles when doing an instrument landing. This technique will keep you in perfectly formation with the tanker. Nice tips though.
AAR is for me the most difficult Task in this game, i have to learn it Patient and stop shooting down the tanker after 10 Minutes of missed baskets :D Thank you anyway Spud, another great video. Greeetings from Germany, stay safe :)
Just to advice you, in the meantime i heard my first „Transfer Complete - Disconnect“ with my Hornet, gets better and better. And the Viper is also refueled mid-air. I think i get the thing working 😁
It also helps if you fly with someone and watch them refuel. I was 0% until I went up with a couple squad mates, flew along, watched them then I moved in. Wala success! Seeing how they moved in then paused to match speed and then ease up, was what I was missing.
Yes. It is essentially that. After you intercept the tanker, you take up position off its left wing. It is here you get settled in, taking note of the tanker's airspeed, altitude or bank angle. When you are ready you slide into position by dropping below the tanker altitude, and behind it. Once your airspeed is stabilised behind, you are ready for pre-contact. The observation position is thus important for you to start getting into the groove so to speak.
Navy Viking pilots got pretty good at tanking. During night recoveries, when everyone is burning fuel in marshal, we had either a KA-6 or A-7 with a buddy store attached (this was before Vikings could perform tanking missions). The Viking had long endurance (fuel-wise, not butt-wise or bladder-wise) and could land heavier than most of the other aircraft (it may be the only thing heavier was the A-3D), and so we were one of the last aircraft back on deck. Because of this, we were usually the recovery "sponge," taking on excess fuel from otherwise overweight aircraft. Nothing builds good tanking skills like tanking at night in the marshal stack.
Thank you so much, after 1500h i finally manage to put my thing into hers (i used focus too much on the basket) ! Well... i took like 3s of fuel but now i regained motivation to practice !
Another great guide packed with sage advice. Wish I had this video when I started first trying AAR. I picked up a few of the bad habits you mentioned, but I also learned a few of the good (the hard way). Not sure if it's a realistic solution IRL, but sometimes I put my F16 into CAT III because the reduced input ratio of stick movement to control surface response damps out PIOs.
My five cents (as someone who is comfortable doing AAR) is practice, practice, practice. The main learnings for me were to ensure firstly that I was perfectly trimmed, not to fixate on a single point and lastly to ensure all movements are tiny and almost constant. But it really just goes down, for me a least, to remain calm and keep practicing.
Air to Air refuelling is honestly easy. All it takes it constant practice till you connect and get a full load. After that you'll smash it every time in any aircraft
As someone who flies mostly in desktop with a bad twist stick, I find it easier to connect the F-14 to the Basket by focusing on flying formation with the basket, rather than a wing or fuselage. (Once connected, I switch my eyes to fuselage or wing) Small, rapid inputs help as well, since my stick can't make the smooth inputs of a good stick; only when you've properly lined yourself up and trimmed, and am ready to connect.
I've been trying for the past two days and managed to get two contacts with immediate disconnects. And I just can't relax.. It's so incredibly hard.. Don't know what to do..
Is it possible, that all Tutorials are conducted with Wakes turned off? I can trim my A/C as much as I want. I approach absolutely fine and stable, get into the Position, try to maintain my focus on a specific part of the Tanker (Basket Pylon lined up with my Hornet Canopy rail instead of focussing the Basket), and short before I connect...boom, the Tanker goes off and the Basket rushes away from me...Thats so fu%$§$% annoying. But in the Tutorials I don't even see a slight wake impact on the Aircraft...
Very helpfull Spudknocker, thank you. I still haven’t managed a successfull refuelling, but I will try again using your tips. A case III recovery on a carrier is a walk in the park compared to refuelling, lol.
@@Spudknocker ZF-1 is great, flamethrower is my favourite. Unfortunately the mangalores stole the rest of them, and I suppose they are busy blowing themselves up now… with the little, red button and all… a real killer always asks about the little, red button.
1) Practice. 2) VR makes it easier. 3) After 1, and 2, you'll find it too easy [1] 4) Throttle and joystick of decent quality Oh, and stay proficient. Perhaps ED will implement an 'easy button' for this for those without the time to devote. Is satisfying to master it though. [1] Especially without physics on the hose and drogue, and the large-ish 'snap grab' radius.
@J Burke i personally find VR does make it easier better depth perception sense of speed and scale all the things you need when performing this kind of task doesn't mean its you don't need practice though
Why are there NO gigantic contrails in the videos I see for AA refueling, but any time I ever try it there's the massive, distracting and damn near intimidating contrails?
Thanks I need the encouragement. This is the only part of DCS that I havent been able to do it AAR and Ive put alot of hours in. I need to take your advice a relax and loosen up. wish me luck
I have the twcs throttle and nxt gladiator I had to add 3 dead zone And change the curve to 20-21 range I also change the vertical springs to gmx#30 not the left and right spring though and I'm on table top I have the core hawk 3d mod for the twcs throttle on etsy polymer bushings For instance when she bank right I match the turn as close as possible add 1-3 knots to keep with the turn and not get closer or farther while I'm hooked in and lastly to not slide right I put the a very small amount of left pedal or (rudder) into the aircraft just a little very tiny bit on my setup anyways so I'm banking right at 45 degrees and yaw is slightly left to counteract my sliding so I look cool and stay it or atleast can fly formation I literally couldn't do it until I change my curve and dead one and tried it today after 5 months of dcs tried myself 2-3 times and my 4th time was today 5/15/21 and I got it fully fueled fa-18 in 6-7 connections and fuel transfers... It takes a long while maybe bit the stick setting are what really helped a fuck load now its super easy tried the tomcat and harrier and f15c the eagle was odd but so us the other airframe I also did what spud knocker said and stroked the throttle up and down like 1% rpm and I stroked the throttle so she was around 315-316 and I kept up and had a solid 37 seconds of being fueled with one bag too almost finished it up
Get a good throttle. Only correct unwanted motion in the axis they are occuring. Play "Girl from Ipanema" musak in your brain. Put a tanker in all your practice missions.
I absolutely cannot do this. So many missions for the F-14 require you to rejoin for gas in order to continue, and every single time I spend an hour trying to put the probe in the basket before giving up. I just can't do it. I've come so close to twisting my joystick off of it's mount.
At special video about this topic while the fuel aircraft is turning, would be sooo helpful. I'm able to refuel as long as the fuel plane is flying straight. But as soon as it starts a bank its a nightmare!
You don't want mushy throttle response, so the F-16 response can't be too *quick*. It must be just too much thrust change for a small throttle movement in that RPM range, making it harder to make small adjustments without overcorrecting. Touchy throttles are not desirable, and it probably can't be helped in the powerful F-16 (but there is no reason for the touchy throttles many modern cars have in sport mode).
I dont even bother attempting it haha . Tried in the harrier and F14 i cant even match the tanker speed . Its a skill i would love to do but its faster to land in most OPS i play "RETURN PRE CONTACT" FUCKING DEPLOY THE BASKET YOU SHIT AHHHHH !!!"
There is an auto throttle thing you can set up that holds you at the same airspeed as the tanker once you're hooked up... cant remember if it was the hornet or the Jeff that I saw that in..
No other thing in DCS pisses me off more than trying this. 0% success rate. I would rather run out of gas and crash than have this crank my blood pressure 😩
@@tombstone4362 man I managed to do an AAR with a keyboard, if you’re using a HOTAS you should have no difficulties Edit: revisiting this comment now, I was being a ****head there
I would look at your curves. If you are using a short desktop stick you should have at least 30% curve on it. Remember most aircraft have a 8 inch/20cm extension. If you are using a desktop stick you will be over sensitive. Also look at curves for the throttle. A lot of times the default is not correct.
I've played DCS for almost three years now, and i can refuel in the Hornet and Viper really well. OOOOH BOY the Tomcat and Strike Eagle... Man, those things are TOO responsive. I'd rather try and land on top of the tanker rather than take fuel from them.
Hey Spuds!👋 I have all of the approach and maintaining and majority of refueling down. My only problem is learning how to get the tanker weather in my tomcat B or in any aircraft to release the basket. 99% of all of my aircraft are navy with exception to the FC3 package. I line up the side the tanker in my tomcat and I've done everything from wave my wings to extending my probe in and out left clicking my probe nothing is happening. Real soon I'll definitely be coming up patreon of yours. You may want to start me from the beginning. I have the f-18 legacy C or any other navel asset? Also trying to get my radar by habit. Sometimes I forget in the heat of battle. I accidentally shot one of my AI assets. I got a tone through the clouds at minus 40° and I took the shot. Looking at the radar it was a bogey but I didn't pay attention to the elevation and the AI had got in the way but I had tone and I took it. Live and learn but it seems like you learn all I need to know from you. I'm pretty good with my tomcat keeping in time with the tanker no matter what kind it is. In the beginning I did overshoot many times, but like I said I can't get them to spool out the basket for me to get the probe in. I could really use some help in this area and all aspects. My next mod I'll get the carrier and a couple campaigns for the f-18. Then I'll get the Syria map , Persian Gulf and Nevada Top Gun School. Speed and angels f14 A & B. Ty. So much for your time. I'll have to watch this over and over again. I just can't figure out the codes or where to find them or where to put them in. Ty
I'm doing AAR training, in the Hornet. In the mission I'm using, the KC-135's is only going 240kts and as I approach it, the wake turbulence constantly pulls my aircraft to the right until I'm fully in it and lose control. I can't trim up the aircraft before tanking because as I get closer the aerodynamics change. I guess I'm too high as I approach. Is the mission borked because 240 is a bit too slow for stable hornet flight?
nope. I just keep missing even if im not focused on the basket and i use my eyes to tell im im closing and ive set my curviture on my joystick to 20 both x and y axis and i just cant get it in place. ive hit te basket with the probe 2 times(cuz of luck) but not once has it stayed it for more then a milisecond.
I would agree but I don’t think that legacy Hornets ever got a buddy refueling system I think that’s relegated to super Hornets and growlers. That’s why it’s not in the game
Finally fueled up now to work on banking while fueling I can never get the same bank angle to work off of without getting pio and having to back off and reapproach
I've never had problems with Air to Air Refueling. It takes a little practice and I've learned not to hold the stick while trying to catch the basket, but rather move it with my fingers with my palm resting on the base of the joystick. This enables me to make small, precise inputs on the stick.
Why my flying near tanker looks very different if not touching the stick (hornet). I really have troubles with wake turbulence. The stick is not problem, or my nerves. It is just that when i closeup tanker smoothly like in all these a/a refueling tutorials, the wake turbulence takes over the plane so hard that i HAVE to correct it -> goes wrong there. Do you use Attitude hold with hornet. Ok my stick is old. But i did it smoothly without turbulence, but with turbulence. No dice. I assume here wake turb. is on? Seems so, but how do you do that so it seems to effect very little to your plane. Crapping my pants bought raven one campaign and mission two "tankin training", well it has to be done anyway sometime. Maby it is there for a reason, though annoying ;D But my problem really is that turbulence, how in gods sake it seems to effect much fever in these tutorials? I bet the turbulence is the very problem, for many others also. With F-15 staying "under" the tanker is much more "smoother" though the boom behind cockpit it is like boom in the... well nervers.:D
Anyone else watching this, all tensed up and barely breathing as he's refueling?! I just noticed near the end of the video that my heartrate was racing!!
Aiming to fly in formation rather than aiming at the drogue chute helped a lot. Another thing that worked for me was keeping the throttle at a very slight crawl forward, and using the airbrake to slow down. That way when I put down the brake, I knew I'd be straight back to that crawl forward.
Don't feel bad, it's probably because the F16 in DCS has significant non linear input lag in the surface controls. I think they were trying to model the inertia but accidentally inputted the mass of the F-14.
Never had trouble with AAR, of course I fly in VR. I actually watch the basket and fly in formation to the left of the basket. I then move to the right and hook up. The F-16 seemed to be the easiest to AAR. Just move up to the spot and the boom operator does all the work.
3 things, u need to know how to TRIM the F out of the plane so its stable, ( can't do it), second-you need to know how to keep formation flying(can't do that too fk), and lastly, keep control of Throttle, can't do that, its either too fast or too slow..
I little AAR hack that I use is activate the BALT hold when approaching pre contact. Then I'm able to better subtly make small input corrections with the stick getting to the boom and staying attached. All I have to focus on is throttle corrections. Makes me look like a pro when I'm anything but lol
Depends on which aircraft you are in. Getting into the basket is unintuitive and it takes practice to memorise the position of the basket relative to your canopy. At the same time you are not supposed to look at the basket. Not at all... It's just supposed to sit in your peripheral vision and you adjust your aircraft's formation position to the memorised basket positions. Thus, AAR familiarity is sheer will and practice.
It really frustrates me that the probe just goes through the basket instead of gently catching it. Might be just collision surfaces not done yet. Or ever. Sooo annoying
Hey guys! I hope this video helps you guys out with Air to Air Refueling in any aircraft that you choose, if you guys want more specificity about refueling particular aircraft let me know in the comments here and we will see what we can do!
I remember one particular CF-18 pilot who got a new callsign because he started to oscillate while A/A refueling. He sheared the business end of his refueling probe off, earning him the callsign, "Bobbitt".
D Jones LOL!
@@Spudknocker Hey, Spud, are you aware of the fact that the FEDS (firing evaluation display system) HUD symbology is modelled in DCS? I guess it isn't classified anymore...
Hi man, this is very helpful thank you! Is there a difference between the steam and web version? Can I access all servers either way? (i.e. can play with some on the web version from the steam version?)
A-10 could be nice :)
SOOOO many "That's what she said" opportunities in this video!
Video was awesome and just what people need for AAR. Thanks Spud!
Yeah dude. It's RIPE!!
_"Oh, Honey, you've slipped out again."_
-Eva Lovia
Wife 100% asked what I was warching
Thank you for this video. I started my addiction to DCS about 1.5 years ago. I tried AAR a couple of times, wasn´t even close. Saw this video on release but just as you mention i lacked the experience of how the aircraft behaved. After a while it just became something to hard to try and again as you mention, it suppose to be fun. Yesterday I gave it a try again and was better than normal, still ended in rage quit and frustration tho. After curing my hangryness i watched this video again and really got the message this time. Today i tried again. I identified 3 things I was doing wrong. 1. Trying to match speed via HUD to tanker 2. Chaseing the basket rather than trying to fly formation and 3. Allowing my self to get stressed out.
Today, thanks to you´re video I got it right! from 50% to full, 2 re-connections and I was smileying the whole time. "transfer complete" and I almost jumped out of my seat! :D Thank you again, for my best moment in DCS so far! :D
Awesome man I’m so glad to hear it!
I'm an experienced airline pilot. I can fly a single engine ILS to landing perfect and dead on without breaking a sweat. I frequently even get called a showoff in recurrent training. But this? I feel my chest tense up and my blood pressure go sky high, and I have yet to be able to do it.
Haha well come fly some DCS with me an we will get it figured out!
Cool
3 crucial tricks that helped me.
1. Curvature of 20 - this greatly depends on your hardware joystick I am sure. Try higher and adjust down eventually. Maybe start with 30? The problem with low curvature is small movement on the hardware translate to such big inputs in the game where it is impossible to maintain stability and the tanker and your plane with keep swaying left and right and up and down. When this happens you just want to kill yourself.
2. Vertical Speed (VS) indicator - look at all the youtube tutorials and how stable their VS is, it is always stable as in it doesn't fluctuate quickly and also doesn't go to a high value. high value being maybe 80-100+. this is the KEY in maintaining stability and the ability to creep forward to the basket. Stable numbers are slow changing and they go from 0,10,20,30,40,50, at a very slow and stable pace.
3. Autopilot ATTH. Otherwise known see Attitude hold - DO not confuse with BALT. I notice this really helps in keeping the Vertical Speed stable otherwise it fluctuate up and down too much for me. You can try with and without but i always able to maintain basket connection easily with this turned on.
The other thing I like to do is keeping a good distance from tanker, not caring about the basket first. Then achieve my VS stability first and foremost. If I feel the tanker swaying left or right too much I say F you to it and keep my eye to the heading indicator making sure it is stable and doesn't change. Eventually the tanker will behave and not move as much because it knows your eye is on a fixed heading. Then you use throttle adjustment to creep forward - this is where it gets super hard because you kind off need to adjust it constantly (this is a true SKILL to master) - the effort is almost like landing on carrier where you keep adjusting the throttle to adjust pitch. But obviously here the throttle don't adjust pitch (with ATTH turned on, and that is why its easier).
Once you connect to basket, remove ATTH and turn on BALT (barometric altitude hold) and your challenge from here is to match the tankers speed. This is where you use reference points and whatever to help you. I find using BALT after basket connection so be super easy. HOWEVER, BALT does not work for me when the Tanker is banking - if the tanker does that banking thing you might as well not try since it is way more difficult to do. Once you successfully do this you can try mucking about with Automatic Throttle Control (ATC) to make things even easier but using ATC in refueling is also a skill that needs developing. I rarely turn on ATC unless I am in a situation where the speed of my plane and tanker is matching perfectly - which means I am not adjusting throttle stick as much and I 'feel' I could apply ATC. It's all about feeling.
Man I can write more but I hope the above will help NEWBIES who sucks at refueling.
So the above tricks is only for when the tanker is flying straight.
@@erfguuipo8084 I will try changing the curvture as you advised. thank you.
@@erfguuipo8084 The ATTitude Hold can help, certainly, so long as you remember to take out what you put in. If feels jerky because of that sometimes. The best fix for PIO I've found is to get those curves changed. Just a little to lengthen the input-to-output ratio a bit will pull the over-correction out of the small inputs. I used to ATT hold all the time in the -18, but since I changed my pitch curve a bit I haven't needed it. I prefer not to use it, actually.
The other item is the speed. A knot or two of speed added or lost will change the pitch up and down, causing PIO. Getting that speed matched and trim set for that speed is key and should be done prior to the approach on the basket and will require a little less input on the stick over time.
You are very knowledgeable and so accurate and i commend you for this video. You sound like a simulator instructor.
I was a KC-135 boom operator for 6 years and KC-10 boom operator and instructor boom operator for 14 years. What are you saying about the whole A/R scenario is so accurate. We talked to the receiver aircraft for two reasons. 1) to relax the pilot and 2) pass any information if required. If you have any questions or comments from the boom operator side of the tanker, i can help you. ....
During boom refueling, the receiver should stop forward movement two to three feet from the extended boom (contact position and let the boom operator extend the boom to effect the contact.
A-10's, B-1's, and E-4's (747) were the ones we had to be careful the most because their receptacles are in front and they will try to fly on to the boom.
10:18 "Pull your probe right out of the drogue or the boom operator will simply refuse to stick his boom into your receptacle. Now let's start stroking the throttle."
I know exactly what you did there.
giggity
Thank you Spudknocker!
After watching all the available videos on TH-cam, getting a new stick and some pretty intense practice, I’ve finally managed to connect to the tanker in the F-16C (KC-135) and the F/A-18C (S-3B) this weekend.
As you probably already know it has been a long and frustrating journey so I’m understandably ecstatic.
Thanks to everyone who took the time to post videos on TH-cam. I watched them all and they are full of invaluable advice and wisdom, pure gold.
What I learned (and used) to be able to perform air to air refuelling:
1-Patience.
2-Relax-don’t death grip the stick.
3-Small premptive corrections- if you try to correct movement you’re already too late and you find yourself in PIO.
4-Learn to stabilise in the horizontal plane and vertical plane separately. With time you will be able to do both.
5-Eyes on the pod, not on the basket.
6-As you get closer to the tanker and after you connect, watch and move with the tanker, your reliance on the HUD will diminish.
7-Listen to the engines-much easier in the F-16 than the F-18 but the sound of the engines is a good surrogate marker for what they’re doing.
8-If PIO starts, throttle back, give yourself some space and try again.
9-Practice formation flying with the tanker with the explicit aim of just formation flying and progressively try to get closer and closer.
10-Practice
11-Practice
12-Practice
I’d also like to add that I do it have a VR headset and I was able to tank using a Logitech Extreme 3D Pro which is a very basic stick that I bought as an interim measure until I could get something like a Warthog or Virpil, but it surprised me and actually did the trick, so it is possible to connect to a tanker with a £40 stick, not easy but not impossible.
One of the things I found that helped me out and learn how to Aerial refuel was practicing formation flights. I went to the aerobatics server all the time and just flew with random people, eventually I got proficient enough where I was able to do aerial refueling with a pretty good success rate. Still one of the hardest things to do in DCS World, I find it easier to land an F-14 on a banking carriers lol
Freedom Trooper this will definitely help!
@@Spudknocker Ok this should have been your Number 1 point. Go learn to fly close formation with your buddies. Once you have that mastered then you can try tanking. Watch your overtake at the tanker when you prod. If you are falling out after you get in its because you had too much overtake. DCS will let you get away with way more than real life where its less than 5kts but if you are that fast then you will drop out once you have connected. Ideally imagine you are walking the probe into the basket don't rush and never ever look at the basket just fly your formation references on the Tanker as you close. .
Yes I gave up and so did 3 of my flight buddies we always find a place to land and refuel. I would rather land at a enemy base and refuel then to try this shit. I gave up after a year of trying
7:57
My wife was nearby and only heard this part 🙄
John Tack hahahahaa nice
Wife thought "At least he is trying to learn it" ;)
Unless, I missed it, you forgot to mention that when you set the Tanker's TACAN frequency, you also need to enable A-A mode. You also didn't mention how to use the lights on the button of the tanker to line up your plane as this is important for planes that do not have extended refueling probes. Another tip is once you are hooked to the refueling boom, you need to pick a location on the tanker that is on a reference point of the frame of the canopy or HUD, and then keep the two reference points together like you do with the needles when doing an instrument landing. This technique will keep you in perfectly formation with the tanker. Nice tips though.
TACAN is discussed at 2:55
I agree, theres way too much useless blah blah that one feels tempted to skip to the interesting parts.
Really helpful tutorial. Covered every single aspect of aerial refueling.
AAR is for me the most difficult Task in this game, i have to learn it Patient and stop shooting down the tanker after 10 Minutes of missed baskets :D Thank you anyway Spud, another great video. Greeetings from Germany, stay safe :)
Just to advice you, in the meantime i heard my first „Transfer Complete - Disconnect“ with my Hornet, gets better and better. And the Viper is also refueled mid-air. I think i get the thing working 😁
It also helps if you fly with someone and watch them refuel. I was 0% until I went up with a couple squad mates, flew along, watched them then I moved in. Wala success! Seeing how they moved in then paused to match speed and then ease up, was what I was missing.
Yes. It is essentially that. After you intercept the tanker, you take up position off its left wing. It is here you get settled in, taking note of the tanker's airspeed, altitude or bank angle.
When you are ready you slide into position by dropping below the tanker altitude, and behind it. Once your airspeed is stabilised behind, you are ready for pre-contact.
The observation position is thus important for you to start getting into the groove so to speak.
Awesome video Spud. Was exactly what I was looking for to help me and my mates in AAR.
Awesome man!
Navy Viking pilots got pretty good at tanking. During night recoveries, when everyone is burning fuel in marshal, we had either a KA-6 or A-7 with a buddy store attached (this was before Vikings could perform tanking missions). The Viking had long endurance (fuel-wise, not butt-wise or bladder-wise) and could land heavier than most of the other aircraft (it may be the only thing heavier was the A-3D), and so we were one of the last aircraft back on deck. Because of this, we were usually the recovery "sponge," taking on excess fuel from otherwise overweight aircraft. Nothing builds good tanking skills like tanking at night in the marshal stack.
Thank you so much, after 1500h i finally manage to put my thing into hers (i used focus too much on the basket) ! Well... i took like 3s of fuel but now i regained motivation to practice !
Another great guide packed with sage advice. Wish I had this video when I started first trying AAR.
I picked up a few of the bad habits you mentioned, but I also learned a few of the good (the hard way). Not sure if it's a realistic solution IRL, but sometimes I put my F16 into CAT III because the reduced input ratio of stick movement to control surface response damps out PIOs.
I was in an oscillation for about 30 minutes last night right up until I ran out of fuel. Good tips, trying this again now!
Harrier A2A refueling tutorial would be great, bc without really seeing or sensing the refuelling probe it is haard
Those vids are always highly appreciated. Thanks spud.
Nice video, Spud, with excellent commentary! Being an old F-4 guy, I'm looking forward to refueling in the forthcoming F-4E.
My five cents (as someone who is comfortable doing AAR) is practice, practice, practice. The main learnings for me were to ensure firstly that I was perfectly trimmed, not to fixate on a single point and lastly to ensure all movements are tiny and almost constant. But it really just goes down, for me a least, to remain calm and keep practicing.
Air to Air refuelling is honestly easy. All it takes it constant practice till you connect and get a full load. After that you'll smash it every time in any aircraft
As someone who flies mostly in desktop with a bad twist stick, I find it easier to connect the F-14 to the Basket by focusing on flying formation with the basket, rather than a wing or fuselage. (Once connected, I switch my eyes to fuselage or wing) Small, rapid inputs help as well, since my stick can't make the smooth inputs of a good stick; only when you've properly lined yourself up and trimmed, and am ready to connect.
Thanks for the video. Rocking the throttle was the missing piece of the puzzle for me. Keep up the good work!
If you have problems with death gripping the throttle or stick then wiggle your toes! I received this advice from a real fighter pilot and it works.
I've been trying for the past two days and managed to get two contacts with immediate disconnects. And I just can't relax.. It's so incredibly hard.. Don't know what to do..
Spud man - HOW did you get the weather lookking so beautiful for the F14 clips. What are your weather settings? Great vid btw
To stay relaxed, wiggle your toes! It actually works. My Squadron Commander says he does it when he tanks.
Haha stroking the throttle 🤣🤣 thanks to your videos I can AAR 😎
Is it possible, that all Tutorials are conducted with Wakes turned off? I can trim my A/C as much as I want. I approach absolutely fine and stable, get into the Position, try to maintain my focus on a specific part of the Tanker (Basket Pylon lined up with my Hornet Canopy rail instead of focussing the Basket), and short before I connect...boom, the Tanker goes off and the Basket rushes away from me...Thats so fu%$§$% annoying. But in the Tutorials I don't even see a slight wake impact on the Aircraft...
"Don't death grip your stick" haha.... I've been at this for quite a while hopefully your innuendos will help my muscle(s) relax :)
Very helpfull Spudknocker, thank you. I still haven’t managed a successfull refuelling, but I will try again using your tips. A case III recovery on a carrier is a walk in the park compared to refuelling, lol.
I will help you 1 on 1 if you give me a ZF-1!
@@Spudknocker ZF-1 is great, flamethrower is my favourite. Unfortunately the mangalores stole the rest of them, and I suppose they are busy blowing themselves up now… with the little, red button and all… a real killer always asks about the little, red button.
1) Practice.
2) VR makes it easier.
3) After 1, and 2, you'll find it too easy [1]
4) Throttle and joystick of decent quality
Oh, and stay proficient. Perhaps ED will implement an 'easy button' for this for those without the time to devote. Is satisfying to master it though.
[1] Especially without physics on the hose and drogue, and the large-ish 'snap grab' radius.
@J Burke 5) Knowing your aircraft
@J Burke i personally find VR does make it easier better depth perception sense of speed and scale all the things you need when performing this kind of task doesn't mean its you don't need practice though
Why are there NO gigantic contrails in the videos I see for AA refueling, but any time I ever try it there's the massive, distracting and damn near intimidating contrails?
Thanks I need the encouragement. This is the only part of DCS that I havent been able to do it AAR and Ive put alot of hours in. I need to take your advice a relax and loosen up. wish me luck
this dude knows how to teach
Took so long to get this but soooo rewarding when I get it done. I still can’t do it when the tanker turns but someday.
Im still struggling with it.
I have the twcs throttle and nxt gladiator I had to add
3 dead zone
And change the curve to 20-21 range I also change the vertical springs to gmx#30 not the left and right spring though and I'm on table top I have the core hawk 3d mod for the twcs throttle on etsy polymer bushings
For instance when she bank right I match the turn as close as possible add 1-3 knots to keep with the turn and not get closer or farther while I'm hooked in and lastly to not slide right I put the a very small amount of left pedal or (rudder) into the aircraft just a little very tiny bit on my setup anyways so I'm banking right at 45 degrees and yaw is slightly left to counteract my sliding so I look cool and stay it or atleast can fly formation
I literally couldn't do it until I change my curve and dead one and tried it today after 5 months of dcs tried myself 2-3 times and my 4th time was today 5/15/21 and I got it fully fueled fa-18 in 6-7 connections and fuel transfers... It takes a long while maybe bit the stick setting are what really helped a fuck load now its super easy tried the tomcat and harrier and f15c the eagle was odd but so us the other airframe I also did what spud knocker said and stroked the throttle up and down like 1% rpm and I stroked the throttle so she was around 315-316 and I kept up and had a solid 37 seconds of being fueled with one bag too almost finished it up
Great video... As always 😉. 0 dislikes...
According to RAF Vulcan & Victor pilots back in 1982, AAR is like trying to put wet spaghetti up a cat's arse!
That is friggin’ hilarious 😂
Came here to learn about AAR but stayed for the life lessons about relaxing and taking your time 🧐
"...causing you to blow right past the tanker..."
A-10 driver
"pffft...as if!" xD
XD
Get a good throttle. Only correct unwanted motion in the axis they are occuring. Play "Girl from Ipanema" musak in your brain. Put a tanker in all your practice missions.
Awesome, I've been hoping for something exactly like this.
Awesome man!
I absolutely cannot do this. So many missions for the F-14 require you to rejoin for gas in order to continue, and every single time I spend an hour trying to put the probe in the basket before giving up. I just can't do it. I've come so close to twisting my joystick off of it's mount.
Great guide so far!
Thanks man!
At special video about this topic while the fuel aircraft is turning, would be sooo helpful. I'm able to refuel as long as the fuel plane is flying straight. But as soon as it starts a bank its a nightmare!
You don't want mushy throttle response, so the F-16 response can't be too *quick*. It must be just too much thrust change for a small throttle movement in that RPM range, making it harder to make small adjustments without overcorrecting. Touchy throttles are not desirable, and it probably can't be helped in the powerful F-16 (but there is no reason for the touchy throttles many modern cars have in sport mode).
I dont even bother attempting it haha . Tried in the harrier and F14 i cant even match the tanker speed . Its a skill i would love to do but its faster to land in most OPS i play
"RETURN PRE CONTACT" FUCKING DEPLOY THE BASKET YOU SHIT AHHHHH !!!"
There is an auto throttle thing you can set up that holds you at the same airspeed as the tanker once you're hooked up... cant remember if it was the hornet or the Jeff that I saw that in..
:D ... so true, makes me smile a couple of times
No other thing in DCS pisses me off more than trying this. 0% success rate. I would rather run out of gas and crash than have this crank my blood pressure 😩
Well hopefully this video will help you out!
@@Spudknocker you've inspired me to giver a go
Tombstone 4 awesome!
@@tombstone4362 man I managed to do an AAR with a keyboard, if you’re using a HOTAS you should have no difficulties
Edit: revisiting this comment now, I was being a ****head there
I would look at your curves. If you are using a short desktop stick you should have at least 30% curve on it. Remember most aircraft have a 8 inch/20cm extension. If you are using a desktop stick you will be over sensitive. Also look at curves for the throttle. A lot of times the default is not correct.
I've played DCS for almost three years now, and i can refuel in the Hornet and Viper really well. OOOOH BOY the Tomcat and Strike Eagle... Man, those things are TOO responsive. I'd rather try and land on top of the tanker rather than take fuel from them.
Hey Spuds!👋 I have all of the approach and maintaining and majority of refueling down. My only problem is learning how to get the tanker weather in my tomcat B or in any aircraft to release the basket. 99% of all of my aircraft are navy with exception to the FC3 package. I line up the side the tanker in my tomcat and I've done everything from wave my wings to extending my probe in and out left clicking my probe nothing is happening. Real soon I'll definitely be coming up patreon of yours. You may want to start me from the beginning. I have the f-18 legacy C or any other navel asset? Also trying to get my radar by habit. Sometimes I forget in the heat of battle. I accidentally shot one of my AI assets. I got a tone through the clouds at minus 40° and I took the shot. Looking at the radar it was a bogey but I didn't pay attention to the elevation and the AI had got in the way but I had tone and I took it. Live and learn but it seems like you learn all I need to know from you. I'm pretty good with my tomcat keeping in time with the tanker no matter what kind it is. In the beginning I did overshoot many times, but like I said I can't get them to spool out the basket for me to get the probe in. I could really use some help in this area and all aspects. My next mod I'll get the carrier and a couple campaigns for the f-18. Then I'll get the Syria map , Persian Gulf and Nevada Top Gun School. Speed and angels f14 A & B. Ty. So much for your time. I'll have to watch this over and over again. I just can't figure out the codes or where to find them or where to put them in. Ty
Hey - I know this is old, but what's the airframe at 4:10? Looks like the hornet with 3 screens, but the hud/icp/top panel bit looks different?
I'm doing AAR training, in the Hornet. In the mission I'm using, the KC-135's is only going 240kts and as I approach it, the wake turbulence constantly pulls my aircraft to the right until I'm fully in it and lose control. I can't trim up the aircraft before tanking because as I get closer the aerodynamics change. I guess I'm too high as I approach. Is the mission borked because 240 is a bit too slow for stable hornet flight?
You could turn off Wake Turbulence in the Settings menu.
That's really good.. thanks for the class in refueling
Instigator yes sir of course!
nope. I just keep missing even if im not focused on the basket and i use my eyes to tell im im closing and ive set my curviture on my joystick to 20 both x and y axis and i just cant get it in place. ive hit te basket with the probe 2 times(cuz of luck) but not once has it stayed it for more then a milisecond.
Which planes are capable of Air refueling ? I know of f18,f16,a10,su33,f15,there are some others ?
A 5 min video crammed into 15 mins !
Instructions unclear, ended up refueling inverted
This is pretty much impossible when flying with arrow keys right?
would be awesome if you could practice buddy refueling with the "Cobham System", from hornet to hornet
I would agree but I don’t think that legacy Hornets ever got a buddy refueling system I think that’s relegated to super Hornets and growlers. That’s why it’s not in the game
Finally fueled up now to work on banking while fueling I can never get the same bank angle to work off of without getting pio and having to back off and reapproach
refueling in the air is quite difficult because of my slightly less eye-hand coordination, so its never easy for me unfortunate.
I didn't know air to air refueling is that hard
Spudknocker, can you please make a video on the FA-18C AACQ system ?
i find it the hardest thing to do in dcs and also the most perishable skill too
I've never had problems with Air to Air Refueling. It takes a little practice and I've learned not to hold the stick while trying to catch the basket, but rather move it with my fingers with my palm resting on the base of the joystick. This enables me to make small, precise inputs on the stick.
I look at the basket in the F-14. it just seems to far off to the right...
Will DCS tankers ever give the receiver a heads up on upcoming turns?
Yeah that would be nice like BMS, lol.
Awesome!
Why my flying near tanker looks very different if not touching the stick (hornet). I really have troubles with wake turbulence. The stick is not problem, or my nerves. It is just that when i closeup tanker smoothly like in all these a/a refueling tutorials, the wake turbulence takes over the plane so hard that i HAVE to correct it -> goes wrong there. Do you use Attitude hold with hornet. Ok my stick is old. But i did it smoothly without turbulence, but with turbulence. No dice. I assume here wake turb. is on? Seems so, but how do you do that so it seems to effect very little to your plane. Crapping my pants bought raven one campaign and mission two "tankin training", well it has to be done anyway sometime. Maby it is there for a reason, though annoying ;D But my problem really is that turbulence, how in gods sake it seems to effect much fever in these tutorials? I bet the turbulence is the very problem, for many others also. With F-15 staying "under" the tanker is much more "smoother" though the boom behind cockpit it is like boom in the... well nervers.:D
in the mirage i refuel with autopilot alt hold and because it has accelerations bracets you keep the throtle stable
Alt hold on the 18 myself. Unless you overuse throttle adjustments, it works perfectly
Anyone else watching this, all tensed up and barely breathing as he's refueling?! I just noticed near the end of the video that my heartrate was racing!!
Aiming to fly in formation rather than aiming at the drogue chute helped a lot. Another thing that worked for me was keeping the throttle at a very slight crawl forward, and using the airbrake to slow down. That way when I put down the brake, I knew I'd be straight back to that crawl forward.
How to I talk to the Tanker? I am on the right frequency but get no response?
i wait a few seconds to try again and then it works for me. Hopefully you were able to figure it out already
There's about 3 dozen "Giggidies" in this one 👍🤣
Hud caged / uncaged ?
Thanks for video, I gave up after a year of trying on and off. Can do it in BMS but not DCS it seems
Don't feel bad, it's probably because the F16 in DCS has significant non linear input lag in the surface controls. I think they were trying to model the inertia but accidentally inputted the mass of the F-14.
@@ziljanvega3879 interesting...
The best way is to use VR its really easy in it
what plane is that at 5:25
Never had trouble with AAR, of course I fly in VR. I actually watch the basket and fly in formation to the left of the basket. I then move to the right and hook up. The F-16 seemed to be the easiest to AAR. Just move up to the spot and the boom operator does all the work.
S3 seems harder without slack in the line
How come a crosswind, carrier night landing in heavy fog is WAY easier than this??
Haha well #1 you should never have a crosswind on a carrier, the carrier should be sailing into the wind! Haha
@@Spudknocker
But they're fun.
Jester keeps bulling me talking about "the force" and who is Luke ?!?!?
navy one is more forgiving than the af one
So many opportunities the video just needs to be titled: That's what she said
Can’t count how many tankers i shot out of frustration
"I said hold still, beeper!"
Brrrrrrr
Sex-Ed was never this well explained
I would have payed more attention if they disguised it with jet euphemisms!
f18 is EASSSSSSY f14 is hard lol apparantly harrier is hard too
3 things, u need to know how to TRIM the F out of the plane so its stable, ( can't do it), second-you need to know how to keep formation flying(can't do that too fk), and lastly, keep control of Throttle, can't do that, its either too fast or too slow..
I can't keep my plane steady to save my life 😮💨 I would get up to the plane but my plane would be all over the place at any minor correction
I can formation fly just fine. AAR is impossible.
I little AAR hack that I use is activate the BALT hold when approaching pre contact. Then I'm able to better subtly make small input corrections with the stick getting to the boom and staying attached. All I have to focus on is throttle corrections. Makes me look like a pro when I'm anything but lol
Depends on which aircraft you are in. Getting into the basket is unintuitive and it takes practice to memorise the position of the basket relative to your canopy.
At the same time you are not supposed to look at the basket. Not at all... It's just supposed to sit in your peripheral vision and you adjust your aircraft's formation position to the memorised basket positions.
Thus, AAR familiarity is sheer will and practice.
@@woodleyjohnson I did that in the Hornet since writing that post and have been able to AAR in that.
I have one thing to say. Giggity.
It really frustrates me that the probe just goes through the basket instead of gently catching it. Might be just collision surfaces not done yet. Or ever. Sooo annoying
If you’re stressed... move your toes.
"RETURN PRE-CONTACT"
But I'm using vr
4:06 : Me at 3am