.. Very good upload. Clear and to the point. I like that you mentioned moving away from the conflict on left bends. I wish more of your members would take heed of this as I see so many just staying out after the view of the oncoming vehicle. All the best. Russ.
When on a left hand bend we were at one time taught 5 road positions and number 5 was right up to or on the white lines. As a result then there was far too much conflict as oncoming vehicles may cut their right hand bend and end up with their offside wheels on our side of the road. If that were the case one was advised to sacrifice ones position and avoid conflict ie a crash. If one could do so. So nowadays we only have 3 positions and that position 3 is about some 2 ft of so away from the centre line and that is supposed to be safer. That said we may still be in danger from oncoming traffic so care should always be taken. Further to that some bends can be called corners as the road is narrow and probably blind to you and you cannot see around or beyond it and the bend is tight at say about 90 deg. So very similar to a corner in any urban street. WE don't usually take those corners wide do we. So in that case it may be prudent and much safer to not take an outside line like position 3 but to stay in position 1 or 2 and at an obviously slower speed.
Very good video. If I may make an observation that we (Advanced Riders) are often categorised as being older men, it may have been a missed opportunity to have a younger male or female - or both - present the video.
Brought here by tweet on twitter. There's some good advice about staying dynamic when riding twisties at higher speeds which is what Roadcraft is really about. But it is pointless to adopt the very nearside and offside lane positions to their extremes on long, sweeping bends, which I see a lot of riders doing. Because your riding won't be affected by extended vision if you can already stop in the distance seen to be clear and very often the distance in gained vision is negligible on long sweepers. I regularly see bikers taking an extreme left position on long, sweeping right handers at normal cruising speeds. There is no point unless you are knee scraping at speeds well above the speed limit. All you do is risk your front tyre being tracked by nearside defects, ridges and grooves which could take you onto the verge or you suddenly panic steer right upon doing so instead of counter-steeering and end up crashing (which I've seen). You also ride where there could be more road debris, possibly mud or road slime so risk of lateral washout & puncture is higher. Just stay in the centre of the lane unless there are hazards or defects. Similarly, on left hand bends that are a bit tighter I see riders taking them practically on the centre line. This can bey dangerous. Yes you will extend your vision round the bend and be better equipped to deal with a tightening radius or oncoming hazard but at or under speed limits you risk being taken out by another incoming road user who cuts that bend or corner as many, many poor drivers do. If you must extend your vision round the bend do it momentarily to check ahead then get back to a more central position. Advanced riding or driving is great for safety. Roadcraft is great, when the limit point clicks into place in your head and you can chase it, it is very rewarding but riders have to stay dynamic and adapt continually.
A lot of sense. On many blind bends a better vision ahead or of what is round that bend is no longer available to us so we must ride accordingly and as our vision in front of us reduces then so must our speed. Advanced riding is not only for faster riding it will keep us just as safe at 10 mph as it would at 60 mph. but it must be able to satisfy the police who may have to ride faster to incidents etc. but as said at the speed we can be doing could be up to or well under the speed limit so there is little or no need to move across a roads width from nearside to offsider as ther would be no benefit to our view of what lies ahead. So our safety is not compromised in any way by staying more central to our lane. T That centre of lane, position 2 also usually has more grit [ aggregates] available assisting our grip and also improving our braking ability where the other two positions of 1 and 3 may be s lacking in aggregate and may be still be wet after the mid line has dried out. Being so and wet positions 1 and 3 is bound to have a negative effect on our braking capacity when we have to brake hard.
As you've both said and put very well I may add. Never opt for position over safety, left handers especially. But I will exaggerate a 1 position even on sweeping right handers so I can see not just the vanishing point but also the road surface for mud and gravel etc. I live in rural North Yorkshire and bikes get caught out all the time because of poor road conditions due to farm machinery.
Just a comment on SPEED and in particular the LIMIT POINT. its not just for bends its for life, Your life on the road and it should be used in all circumstances. I know that its taught by all training bodies and with particular reference to bends. However if we look at what it rely is, it is the furthest unhindered distance that we can see down the road. It stands to reason that if there is a dirty great HGV in front of us at say 100 ft it doesn't matter if the bend is 400 ft away. That HGV is our limit point. Its no use looking further down the road to bends and there limit point as we have a much closer one directly in front of us and that creates a danger to us and to everyone else if we fail understand that we must be able to stop in that distance that we can see to be clear and on our own side of the road. All to often I see the danger that a motorcyclist places themselves in when I see them following another vehicle and fail to give the correct and safe distance behind them. They follow cars and HGV's by only 20 ft and are doing 40 mph or more. That is a suicide position and no one should place themselves in it. They cannot see further than the brake lights of any car of other vehicle they are behind and being unable to see and read the road ahead they are just asking for trouble. Its as if they have decided that the driver of any vehicle in front is a safer driver than they are and that they abdicate all of their own safety and place it in the hands of the unknown driver in front.,. If that HGV or vehicle stopped for any emergency reason the biker, unable to stop in the distance he has given, might be forced to swerve into the path of oncoming traffic and that would be the end of him. Also some instructors will brag about the their own braking distance on their bike and that they can brake in far less distance than those figures stated in the Highway Code or by the DVSA. So one should then disregards those recommendations. DO NOT believe them. Yes, under good conditions one might be able to stop in a shorter distance but isn't it safer to adopt those distances assuming an emergency stop rather than believe you can always stop in a shorter distance. Its no use being injured or in court of law and arguing that you were told that you can stop in less of a distance and therefore you fail to ride according to the recommendations of the H.C. etc. Rather ride safer and always apply those stopping distances at all times, then no matter what the conditions are you will always be able to stop in those distances and if you take less distance to stop that is a bonus. To all. Happy riding.
Very Professional indeed 👏 Great to see Professional Riders passing on road craft which undoubtedly will save lives.
Well done IAM RoadSmart .
.. Very good upload. Clear and to the point. I like that you mentioned moving away from the conflict on left bends. I wish more of your members would take heed of this as I see so many just staying out after the view of the oncoming vehicle. All the best. Russ.
That's because many are just "doing it by the numbers".
When on a left hand bend we were at one time taught 5 road positions and number 5 was right up to or on the white lines. As a result then there was far too much conflict as oncoming vehicles may cut their right hand bend and end up with their offside wheels on our side of the road. If that were the case one was advised to sacrifice ones position and avoid conflict ie a crash. If one could do so. So nowadays we only have 3 positions and that position 3 is about some 2 ft of so away from the centre line and that is supposed to be safer. That said we may still be in danger from oncoming traffic so care should always be taken.
Further to that some bends can be called corners as the road is narrow and probably blind to you and you cannot see around or beyond it and the bend is tight at say about 90 deg. So very similar to a corner in any urban street. WE don't usually take those corners wide do we. So in that case it may be prudent and much safer to not take an outside line like position 3 but to stay in position 1 or 2 and at an obviously slower speed.
Very good video. If I may make an observation that we (Advanced Riders) are often categorised as being older men, it may have been a missed opportunity to have a younger male or female - or both - present the video.
That is damn perfect.
I shall memorise and quote this to myself when I forget what I ought to be doing. It’s succinct.
Top video, short, sharp and to the point. Can we have more plz?
Brought here by tweet on twitter. There's some good advice about staying dynamic when riding twisties at higher speeds which is what Roadcraft is really about. But it is pointless to adopt the very nearside and offside lane positions to their extremes on long, sweeping bends, which I see a lot of riders doing. Because your riding won't be affected by extended vision if you can already stop in the distance seen to be clear and very often the distance in gained vision is negligible on long sweepers. I regularly see bikers taking an extreme left position on long, sweeping right handers at normal cruising speeds. There is no point unless you are knee scraping at speeds well above the speed limit. All you do is risk your front tyre being tracked by nearside defects, ridges and grooves which could take you onto the verge or you suddenly panic steer right upon doing so instead of counter-steeering and end up crashing (which I've seen). You also ride where there could be more road debris, possibly mud or road slime so risk of lateral washout & puncture is higher. Just stay in the centre of the lane unless there are hazards or defects.
Similarly, on left hand bends that are a bit tighter I see riders taking them practically on the centre line. This can bey dangerous. Yes you will extend your vision round the bend and be better equipped to deal with a tightening radius or oncoming hazard but at or under speed limits you risk being taken out by another incoming road user who cuts that bend or corner as many, many poor drivers do. If you must extend your vision round the bend do it momentarily to check ahead then get back to a more central position.
Advanced riding or driving is great for safety. Roadcraft is great, when the limit point clicks into place in your head and you can chase it, it is very rewarding but riders have to stay dynamic and adapt continually.
A lot of sense. On many blind bends a better vision ahead or of what is round that bend is no longer available to us so we must ride accordingly and as our vision in front of us reduces then so must our speed.
Advanced riding is not only for faster riding it will keep us just as safe at 10 mph as it would at 60 mph. but it must be able to satisfy the police who may have to ride faster to incidents etc. but as said at the speed we can be doing could be up to or well under the speed limit so there is little or no need to move across a roads width from nearside to offsider as ther would be no benefit to our view of what lies ahead. So our safety is not compromised in any way by staying more central to our lane. T
That centre of lane, position 2 also usually has more grit [ aggregates] available assisting our grip and also improving our braking ability where the other two positions of 1 and 3 may be s lacking in aggregate and may be still be wet after the mid line has dried out. Being so and wet positions 1 and 3 is bound to have a negative effect on our braking capacity when we have to brake hard.
As you've both said and put very well I may add. Never opt for position over safety, left handers especially. But I will exaggerate a 1 position even on sweeping right handers so I can see not just the vanishing point but also the road surface for mud and gravel etc. I live in rural North Yorkshire and bikes get caught out all the time because of poor road conditions due to farm machinery.
Richard, a perfect introduction and this video link is sent to all our prospective and new Associate Members. Thank you.
Just a comment on SPEED and in particular the LIMIT POINT. its not just for bends its for life, Your life on the road and it should be used in all circumstances. I know that its taught by all training bodies and with particular reference to bends.
However if we look at what it rely is, it is the furthest unhindered distance that we can see down the road. It stands to reason that if there is a dirty great HGV in front of us at say 100 ft it doesn't matter if the bend is 400 ft away. That HGV is our limit point.
Its no use looking further down the road to bends and there limit point as we have a much closer one directly in front of us and that creates a danger to us and to everyone else if we fail understand that we must be able to stop in that distance that we can see to be clear and on our own side of the road.
All to often I see the danger that a motorcyclist places themselves in when I see them following another vehicle and fail to give the correct and safe distance behind them. They follow cars and HGV's by only 20 ft and are doing 40 mph or more. That is a suicide position and no one should place themselves in it. They cannot see further than the brake lights of any car of other vehicle they are behind and being unable to see and read the road ahead they are just asking for trouble. Its as if they have decided that the driver of any vehicle in front is a safer driver than they are and that they abdicate all of their own safety and place it in the hands of the unknown driver in front.,. If that HGV or vehicle stopped for any emergency reason the biker, unable to stop in the distance he has given, might be forced to swerve into the path of oncoming traffic and that would be the end of him.
Also some instructors will brag about the their own braking distance on their bike and that they can brake in far less distance than those figures stated in the Highway Code or by the DVSA. So one should then disregards those recommendations. DO NOT believe them. Yes, under good conditions one might be able to stop in a shorter distance but isn't it safer to adopt those distances assuming an emergency stop rather than believe you can always stop in a shorter distance.
Its no use being injured or in court of law and arguing that you were told that you can stop in less of a distance and therefore you fail to ride according to the recommendations of the H.C. etc. Rather ride safer and always apply those stopping distances at all times, then no matter what the conditions are you will always be able to stop in those distances and if you take less distance to stop that is a bonus. To all.
Happy riding.
That’s a really helpful video. Thanks.
GREAT TUTORIAL
Shared to Cornwall Bike Group. Great video thankyou.
Is it possible to download this video for sharing as a presentation at my bike club?
That and OAP, Observation, Anticipation & Planning :)
It was very brief with not a lot of content, shame because he should have explained so much more..
Out of date, restrictive and can even be dangerous