Percy would KNOW if it’s abusive, because he lived with Gabe, a very abusive man. He knows what abuse looks like, and doesn’t even consider if Annabeth is.
I think the strongest reason why Percabeth isn't toxic is that in the House of Hades, quote "Her voice caught on the word friend. Percy was more than that. Even boyfriend really didn't cover it. They'd been through so much together. At this point, Percy was part of her. A sometimes annoying part, sure, but definitely a part that she could not live without." That I think proves everything
This quote is sweet, though your s/o should be your compliment, not your other half, in my opinion. Too much dependancy can be toxic, but i dont think they have that here.
They argue like normal people. They fight and joke like normal people. I think it’s a great representation of how in normal relationships, things aren’t perfect and people don’t treat each other amazingly all the time. But that doesn’t mean they don’t love each other. They are so great together because of their conflicts. And a lot of accusations against them are just banter anyway.
I 💯% agree! That's why I love Rick Riordan ships. Like how you said, people are never perfect in a relationship, and a great example of that are Percabeth, and even Fierrochase.
@@rileysgameoverworld84 Piper and Jason was bad, and Hazel and Frank was, I don't know, not too memorable. Percabeth was just too big that everything else couldn't match it
@@jamesindia6131Might be a hot take but Hazel and Frank's relationship is the most interesting part for me in the second books I enjoy there characters a lot
I personally believe that it’s the opposite of abusive I think it shows trust and comfort within there relationship. These moments are also some the best reasons why this ship is so amazing and ship worthy and it shows how there soul mates. No hate on anyone who thinks the opposite.
Here’s my opinion:: #1: the dance scene Personally, I don’t think this is abusive. It’s simply a play hit. Percy wasn’t hurt and Annabeth didn’t want to hurt him. Plus, they’re sparring partners and fight together all the time. #2: the sewer Once again, I don’t think this is abusive either. Sure, it’s a little mean but not uncalled for. Not only is Annabeth having to help a god she’s not on great terms with, but she is getting drenched with nasty New York sewer water. We also know Percy didn’t take it personally or wasn’t hurt by her comments and actions because he knows he deserves it and he knows she doesn’t mean it. Plus, once again, sparring partners. #3: the judo flip Once again, not abusive. Annabeth has had an extreme amount of emotions building up over the last few months. She isn’t great at handling them so anger and bitterness comes out. Annabeth is trained in combat so she knows how to properly flip someone and Percy knows how to land. Plus, we see that Percy laughs. He knows Annabeth well enough to know what she’s feeling and why she does what she does. #4: Seaweed Brain In the first Percy Jackson book, Annabeth calls Percy Seaweed Brain as a joke. She was simply teasing him as most twelve year olds do. Overtime, however the name became less of a tease and more of a nickname or a sign of their friendship. It shows their relationship’s growth.
agree with you 100%, percabeth in my opinion is beautiful and if you are right in everything in the judo flip Annabeth was feeling many emotions, happiness for seeing Percy and knowing that he can with him but at the same time sadness and concern that Percy has changed among other things and is also feeling other emotions (anger, calm etc), the seaweed brain Annabeth was joking at the beginning but in the end it remained as an affectionate and funny nickname from Annabeth for example to my younger brother he said muggle as a loving and funny nickname and well It was left as a nickname in the dance there if I don't remember which one you are talking about if the Titan's curse and I don't remember what happened jsjs I'm going to reread that part so I can't tell you my opinion Like sewer's, I don't remember very well which one you are talking about, sorry, I'm very forgetful, but you're right
just because she's mad odesn't excuse her actions though, she was pissed off at him that he got kidnapped, she knew he got kidnapped yet she was pissed off, also she has jealousy issues, whenever a girl is within a one mile radius of him she assumes the worse.
Couple of things 1) annabeth's love language appears to be playful violence 2) she was raised to fight if you were raised to fight what would you do in these situations... React in the way you've been taught I rest my case
Also: IF ANNABETH WAS ABUSIVE, HE WOULD NOT BE IN THE RELATIONSHIP! HE LIVED WITH GABE, AN INCREDIBLY ABUSIVE MAN, FOR TWELVE YEARS OF HIS LIFE! HE CAN RECOGNIZE ABUSE!
@@WhiteSwan2011do u know abusive victims can still fall in toxic relationships filled with abuse? How DELUSIONAL can Percabeth fans be. Like I love percabeth but u gotta acept that
You're right. Context is everything. Percy and Annabeth are basically child soldiers. Of course their love language would look a little different compared to the average person. Abuse usually has a negative effect on the victim, but Percy is never depicted as being afraid of Annabeth. He literally laughs in that excerpt where she judo flips him. From what I recall, they have pretty good and open communication within their relationship. They strengthen and support each other through thick and thin, including the depths of Tarturus. Honestly, they're my fave power couple.
Percy IS LITERALLY SCARED OF ANNABETH AND IT'S PLAYED FOR LAUGHS. Sorry but rick make leo's friend punch him for being missing, despite leo being an abused victim. Rick never touched any topic of the effects the abuse had on Percy and Sally, he write a coming out scene where the gay boy from the 1920's was FORCED to leave the closet, when coming out is supposed to be safe. Don't excuse it with them being child soldiers. It's just Riordan's shitty writting.
And Annabeth isn't scared of Percy @@bl00dyroses? In House of Hades, Percy literally nearly kills the misery goddess, Akhyls by controlling poison, like he would water and Annabeth is described as VISUALLY FRIGHTENED! Next Leo: You haven't punched your friend playfully before? I know I have. And Leo was gone for who knows how long. I think that's justified. Gabe's abuse: At the end of The Lightning Thief, when Percy is reunited with Sally and Gabe, Sally FLINCHED when Gabe raised his hand at her. We see the effects Gabe's abuse has on Sally so that's another point against you. And Nico's coming out scene with Jason and Cupid. Cupid FORCED Nico too. A god, a LOVE GOD at that is forcing Nico to out himself. Not any of Nico's friends. The point of that scene is SUPPOSED to be unsafe. It's not supposed to be enjoyable for the reader and any of the characters involved save for Cupid. And clearly it made you uncomfortable. You are entitled to your opinion but these characters have gone through stuff most of us CAN'T even imagine, so yeah, their love languages are going to be different than most. It's not just Riordan's "shitty" writing, as you say
Why Percabeth Isn’t a Good Ship (Sorry 2x) I’m definitely getting cancelled- 1. Annabeth is physically abusive. The fandom makes this point seem controversial and debatable, but it’s really not. The definition of abuse is hitting someone. Annabeth hit Percy. Therefore, Annabeth abused Percy. Is that really that hard to understand? Annabeth hit Percy for the first time in The Titan’s Curse when she, Percy, and Thalia were looking for the di Angelo siblings. She punched him in the gut when he asked her who he should ask to dance with him. Annabeth knows that Percy can be oblivious at times...but punishes him when it benefits her? The second time was in The Mark of Athena, when she judo-flipped him because she missed him. That’s...what?? Usually when people are worried about someone else, they hug or kiss them, not flip them over their shoulder. And yes Annabeth kissed him first, but the judo-flip was completely unnecessary. Annabeth punished Percy for ‘leaving’ her despite him being kidnapped and his memory wiped. And everyone’s like ‘But Percy didn’t feel any pain!!11!!1!’ The chapter wasn’t in his point of view, so that claim is a guess. Just cause he didn’t say ‘Ow’ doesn’t mean he wasn’t in pain. Also- Annabeth slammed him on a stone pavement on his back. That definitely hurts, even if Percy is a demigod, physically strong, and has gotten hurt a lot. There’s a difference between ‘playful hitting’ and actually hurting someone. Yes they trained a lot, but this isn’t training. This is Annabeth punishing Percy for being traumatized with yet another life-threatening quest and being kidnapped. I don’t remember Percy judo-flipping Annabeth after he saw her again when she got kidnapped in TTC. Besides, the Romans were about to take out their weapons when they saw Annabeth attack Percy, so if all of them thought it was an attack...it was most likely an attack. Even Annabeth said herself “I only attack my boyfriend like that”. The thing is, if it was Percy who flipped Annabeth over his shoulder and slammed her on her back or punched her in the gut, all the fans immediately would’ve freaked out and cancelled him, calling him a horrible and abusive boyfriend, but because it’s the girl hitting the guy, it’s fine apparently. Nothing wrong with it, right? And then Riordan (and the fandom) had the audacity to romanticize that abuse. Abuse isn’t a sweet, romantic gesture. Stop making it seem like it is. That’s disgusting. 2. Annabeth is also verbally abusive and toxic. Annabeth canonically lowered Percy’s self-esteem, constantly insulted him and his intelligence despite knowing he was insecure about it and always getting kicked out of schools and getting bad grades (even with her so-called ‘endearing’ name for him ‘Seaweed Brain’), and the overall idea of Percabeth is a super smart, pretty girl making a guy with below average intelligence feel insecure about himself. Percy’s self-esteem has plummeted since he met Annabeth and her behavior is never called out or even noticed, which implies some manipulation going on. Annabeth is shown to be extremely capable of manipulating her enemies and anyone else she pleases, and there are quite a few signs she’s using it against Percy (his feelings of obligation, fear, and guilt of and over her, questioning himself, having strings attached, always only thinking of her and no one else in his life, etc.), especially since Percy begins to gradually stop noticing Annabeth’s wrong and toxic behavior as the story progresses. 3. Annabeth only likes Percy cause he’s the chosen one. Annabeth only hung around Percy since The Lightning Thief cause she thought he was ‘the one’ and so she could finally go on a quest. She literally used Percy to go out to the mortal world and ‘prove herself’ cause really, all she cares about is glory, which is shown multiple times throughout the series with all her pride and ambitions. Plus the fact that Chiron made Annabeth swear on the River Styx that she would keep Percy from danger is a pretty clear sign she didn’t stick around him just cause she wanted to, but because she felt obligated to and cause it would benefit her. Take all of this and it’s kind of obvious Annabeth only hung around Percy cause he was the chosen one of the prophecy, a son of one of the Big Three, and was destined to go on multiple quests and play a big part in the mythological world, which is what she always wanted since book one. 4. It was forced. Since the beginning of book one, it was so obvious that Percy and Annabeth were going to get together that their relationship ended up being boring, dull, and flat. Riordan made it so obvious they were going to be a couple that nothing that happened to their relationship really mattered, cause everyone knew it would work out in the end (which is probably why everyone wrongly hated on Rachel) so what happened in between didn’t matter. Their relationship was the typical ‘male lead and female lead’, ‘bad boy trouble-maker skater and nerdy good girl’ power couple that was way too clear. And Riordan made it worse by pushing their relationship and shoving it into the readers’ faces way too much. In MoA Annabeth states that she’s always had a crush on Percy (since they were twelve) which immediately rips all the development their relationship (which was supposedly ‘friends to lovers’, but not anymore) had away. Riordan made up a bunch of honestly dumb scenarios that were legit cringe to make Percabeth seem like ‘OTP’ that really didn’t make sense. 5. It ruined their characters. Percy and Annabeth would’ve been way better off as just friends. After they got together in HoO, all their personality and everything else that made them independent was destroyed to make room for more ‘Percabeth’. All of Annabeth’s skills, bravery, intelligence, pride, ferocity, judgmentalism, and all the other traits and flaws that made her a well-written character were never utilized or even mentioned. All she thought about was Percy, and the same goes for him. His loyalty, sarcasm, humor, obliviousness, etc. disappeared to make room for arrogant Annabeth fanboy. In PJO, they were amazingly well-written and great role models for younger readers (especially Annabeth), but in HoO their characters were exclusively ‘Annabeth’s boyfriend’ and ‘Percy’s girlfriend’. Their characters were completely dependent on each other, and they were way better off as just friends. 6. Annabeth is way too possessive. And creepy. It’s fine and honestly normal for people to get jealous when another person likes someone they do, but Annabeth’s jealousy was downright creepy. Not only did she not know if her feelings for Percy were reciprocated or not, but she also didn’t know if Percy and Rachel liked each other, either. The very first time she met Rachel she immediately hated her. That’s not ‘I’m jealous cause this girl likes the guy I do’, that’s ‘I’m jealous cause the guy I like has another female friend’. She had no reason to believe that Rachel and Percy liked each other and has no say in who they can like, either. She thought that she and Percy absolutely had to be in a relationship and that he couldn’t even have friends with different genitals than him. And remember when Annabeth literally stalked Percy in The Sea of Monsters? Like when she creeped by his window, constantly watched him, and kept tabs on him just cause she ‘couldn’t find the right time’ to tell him something cause he was ‘never alone’ despite him being alone multiple times and despite the fact that she literally could’ve just knocked on his door like a normal person instead of creeping around his cabin and staring at him through the windows? Again- switch the roles. If it was Percy who was stalking Annabeth, everyone would’ve immediately called him a creep. If- according to Tumblr and almost everyone who read Twilight- Edward is a creep for stalking Bella, then Annabeth is a creep for stalking Percy.
just look at it this way: is percabeth anything like gabe and sally's relationship? if your answer is no, as it should be, then we can all agree that percabeth is NON TOXIC
gabe and sallys relationship isnt the only kind of toxic relationship? you cant say a relationship isnt toxic because its not as bad as gabe and sally , that in itself is toxic
Imagine mistaking obvious slapstick humor directed towards a teenage demographic for legitimate emotional, mental, and physical trauma that is a serious issue that shouldnt just be thrown around willy nilly. Couldnt be me.
I think the context of the text really matters, as with most things.....Rick I think implies that it was obviously playful, and you can see that through percy’s reaction, he clearly has some knowledge of what abusive is, because of his mom’s relationship with Gabe, and it’s not mentioned that Percy is bruised or physically hurt in anyway. I get that Annabeth can come off as dominating and temperamental at times but I don’t think she ever has any intention of hurting Percy. I think you did a great job explaining the whole thing, cause abuse is quite a sensitive topic. Also, what book is that next to the lightening thief graphic novel, it’s really hard to see cause of the glare of the light.....sorry it’s driving me insane at this point.😂
@@Unclaimeddemigod ohhh....thanks for clearing that up.....it’s weird seeing people have such negative interpretations of annabeth’s gestures though, to me they just look like evidence that she had a crush on Percy.
I was just coming to comment that Percy would be able to tell the difference between playful roughhousing and actual physical abuse due to his past experiences of being abused by Smelly Gabe and recognizing the signs of abuse to another when he saw his mom flinch! I’m glad someone else thought of this as well! And Percy has a bit of a defensive temper in the books too so if he felt it was abuse or unjustifiably too rough then he would definitely react and wouldn’t be hesitant or shy about it!
I'm saying this as someone who has been reading the Percy Jackson books for the FIRST TIME in the last few weeks and am still currently reading her way through House of Hades. So I haven't even been with this series for very long; not even done with HOO for goodness sake, yet I can say with full clarity that Percy and Annabeth is one of the most healthy romantic relationships I've seen in a long time in fiction. Even couples that I consider OTPs and that I'd die for have their issues that I find questionable (looking at you Nanami x Tomoe and NaLu), but Percy and Annabeth are not one of those OTPs. Even when they were supposed to be "enemies" in the 1st book, they didn't feel like there was actual animosity or hate between them, but more of a rivalry where they'd throw half-hearted jabs at each other. And sure, they argue, but that's NORMAL in ANY relationship. But the way they trust, confide, console, comfort, protect, and respect each other......how is that toxic?
I think that the only thing that could be a little bit (A LITTLE BIT) toxic is in The Battle of the Labyrinth when Rachel and Annabeth met. In the fourth book when Annabeth first meets Rachel, she starts to verbally attack her. Girl, you can't just start to insult a girl that you don't even know just because she and your bff/crush are getting along. Yes, Rachel seemed to like Percy and Annabeth noticed that, but Percy and Annabeth weren't a couple, she didn't have the right to act that possesive! This remind me of the moment when Ron starts to date Lavender and Hermione attacked him with magic. Again, Hermione had no right for doing this. Ron is his own person and can date who he wants. I think that's why I didn't like Annabeth in the fourth book. And that's all, is just my opinion and sorry if there are some spelling mistakes, English is not my first lenguage.
It was definitely a mistke of her, but that is not what I would call toxic. She is jealous. Yes, she definitely should not do this, and she knows it and admits it (if my memories are right). So, she didn't have the best way to act, but that was not really toxic to me. Proof is that Rachel and her became good friends afterward
THANK YOU, I do agree that's toxic, but it also is in character and I think she grows out of it which is good, but that jealousy and possessiveness (while makes tons of sense for someone with that level of abandonment issues like Annabeth) just ain't healthy.
Honestly i think that most of the people who say that percabeth is a toxic relationship are just trying to make people mad, there isn’t enough merit to this argument, and it’s a healthier relationship then I’m ever gonna have
the fact that percy literally fell into tartarus (the most dangerous place and basically hell in greek mythology) so annabeth won’t be alone. like- that’s true love. another example is how both rejected immortality for each other, annabeth rejected the hunters of artemis and percy rejected the immortality thing from the gods. that’s just true love right there!
for the record as someone who's been in an abusive relationship you can't always tell when you're in the midst of it so Percy not mentioning anything in the narration isn't super relevant... however there are mountains more evidence that they have a healthy relationship than a unhealth one. Also on the point of the role reversal. Percy is the strongest demigod in the entire series and Annabeth is the smartest so when she flips him she knows that he'd be able to shake it off and she also knows how to safely flip someone because again she's brilliant.
Proof percabeth isn’t an abusive relationship: - Percy turned down immortal because he couldn’t live without Annabeth (the last Olympian) - Percy fell through Tartarus with Annabeth (Mark of Athena) - Percy was the only one who believed Annabeth was alive when she fell of the cliff (titans curse) -Annabeth looked for Percy for 8 months when he was at camp Jupiter (son of Neptune and lost hero) - Annabeth has saved Percy’s life multiple times and same with Percy - the one thing that kept him going through son of Neptune was the thought of Annabeth and seeing her again
I love percabeth too (Just my opinion) and I feel every relationships has to have its ups and downs (platonic or romantic) and that's why Percy and Annabeth fought a bit. I completely respect anybody else's opinion
Me and all of my friends are involved with martial arts, we spar together at least once a week, because of this we know the others abilities well. We will playfully fight even outside of spars because we know it won't hurt the other. This is what annabeth is doing.
I do see it, how they could think Annabeth would be abusive. But the reality is Uncle Rick just isn’t the most creative when it comes to girl characters. In his books, there’s 2 types. 1. The girl is obsessed with how she looks, not the brightest, and reliable on others. 2. Tough, Into fighting, can handle Herself, sarcasm is life, smart. More complex versions of Tomboy and Girly Girly. I mean Rachel was a blessing when it comes to personality. Annabeth of course is the second. So she has a more sarcastic and blunt way. For the “If the roles switched it’d be wrong” thing, I get it. Because, Percy isn’t like that. He doesn’t playfully hit or use physical touch to show emotion. Or maybe I just saw this from a writers pov lol
Idk I think that’s kinda a reach. Only silena and drew fall into that first category, and the only one I can think of that follow the second is annabeth. Not trying to be antagonistic, but I’m confused as to where this “Rick isn’t the best at writing female characters” comes from. Sadie might be my favorite protagonist after Percy, Sally is iconic and most of the other notable female characters differ from the two archetypes you mentioned. But maybe my perspective is just different because I’m a dude (and I’m not saying he writes PERFECT female characters, but their have been plenty of lacking male characters too so 🤷🏿♂️)
@@alphathegreat9458 i mean you have good points, but think about it. piper is kinda like rachel, sally could fall in the second. her and annabeth are kinda alike. and i personally havent read kane khronicles so idk sadie. but most of the girl that i know in rick's books are really similar to others. also clarisse and katie.
@@kenzieallen_ hmm idk. Piper is the “I’m not like other girls” character, and while I could see how Rachael also comes across that way, I see her more as a “I’m not like other people” character. She doesn’t really focus on not being like other girls, or people for that matter, she’s just a unique person. It never came across like she was trying to act a certain way (like piper definitely is), more so like that just who she is as a person. And I’m completely loss as to how sally is into fighting, and she’s not that sarcastic either. I guess you can say she’s tough, but that’s so vague you can use it to describe anyone. She did handle herself pretty well against Gabe though, so I’ll give you that, but i don’t think that’s good enough to say she fits. I honestly don’t remember that much about Katie Gardner but i don’t remember her having anything in common with Clarisse. IMO clarisse has the best arc of any female character, and is arguably the most well written one though so I might be biased.
@@alphathegreat9458 Yeah I honestly cannot see why people are suddenly saying he doesn't write female characters well. I'm a guy too but to me all characters are equally developed and nothing really stands out that makes me think "That's not how girls think/work/act". Also keeping in mind that these are middle grade books we are talking about, it's kinda hard to be super in depth about the psyche of someone when you have to do it to a certain audience. Plus his books always have that lighthearted comedic tone that lends itself to caricatures for ALL characters to some extent.
@@e443productions9 imo I think this recent train of thought is because the two most notable female characters in the two most popular series, Annabeth and Piper, are two of the most archetypical characters in the books, as opposed to most of the other female characters who are more relatively nuanced but lack the exposure of the other two.
I think I agree with you and what many of these comments say; 1. Percy had past experiences with being abused and recognizing it in others when his mom flinched from Gabe, he would have known enough to know the difference between playful roughhousing and actual abuse 2. Percy has a defensive temper through the entire series and if he felt something was wrong or unjustified he would have pointed it out and reacted accordingly but he never called AnnaBeth out on the roughhousing 3. Sometimes it can be hard for people to figure out the limits of affection and physical interactions and some people can hesitate to interact physically with those close to them because they don’t trust themselves to not hurt loved ones or because they don’t trust loved ones to not hurt them, people who had been abused before sometimes have trouble with this because it can be hard to figure out where that line is between playful roughhousing in affection versus physical abuse. Percy and AnnaBeth had both had rocky pasts with monster attacks, running away due to neglect, and child abuse. Playful roughhousing with someone close in an affectionate way shows they trust each other to not hurt them and they trust themselves to not hurt each other, they also know they both have extensive training in combat and can take a hit without really getting hurt which probably helps. But it’s actually good to have a relationship where roughhousing a bit can be taken so casually between the two of them because it gives them a chance to practice finding the line between playful and painful and to continue to learn to trust themselves and others and a chance to practice how to physically interact without copying the abusive example they grew up with.
@Coffee1864 1864 I completely agree with you. I respect other’s opinions but I personally don’t understand how Annabeth is abusive. And this is a children’s book. The evidence shown doesn’t really prove anything from my perspective at least and as for the judo flip scene even though I wouldn’t have reacted the same way Annabeth did I never saw it as abusive. People need to cut Annabeth some slack she’s literally a teenager. Nobody is perfect not even her and she would obviously never want to hurt Percy. I love Percabeth even if it isn’t my favourite ship and it saddens me that some would view there completely normal relationship as toxic
That section in MoA that you read is one of my favorite parts in all of HoO!!! Oh my gods it’s like THE best couples scene EVERRRRRRRR!! Being a PJO/HoO fan is the best life
I was today-years old when I kearned that apparently some people accuse Percabeth of being abusive? Ummm, if they are anything, it's over-protective and maybe just a bit codependent from all the-ya know- trama bonding.
For the Titan's Curse thing, look, ALL demigods are known to have more strength than regular mortals. At camp, people are ALWAYS inflicting physical harm on each other. It toughens them up and is considered normal. As long as the other person is personally OKAY with it, it's totally fine. Annabeth knows Percy's fine with it, and he is. It was just a playful punch, chill. For the sewer water thing, (forgive these "things") again, Percy is also NOT abusing Annabeth, if you look at it like "Oh, Percy doesn't care if Annabeth dies of the filthy hands of NYC sewer water!" No. Percy needed to make sure he and Annabeth get outta there alive, KILLING the giant. Annabeth calling him a moron and telling him she'll kill him is just her quirky way of expressing her love, as we've seen. She DOES NOT mean ANY of it. Percy is used to it, and we know he's TOTALLY okay since it's in his POV, after all. He doesn't express ANY negative emotions. For the judo-flip, Percy LAUGHS. I- I'm sure you don't laugh the way he's laughing in this scene when you're in pain. He doesn't express any "ow" or "That hurt." He's used to getting flipped and things while fighting battles, his back and head is strong enough to withstand it. He's a demigod with extra strength, after all.
I'm late to comment in here, but I feel that people who says percabeth is abusive are trivializing abusive relationships and for me this is sooo wrong to do
I think percabeth being a toxic relationship originates from a lot of the fandom/ fanfic authors who exaggerates these instances and writes percabeth with annabeth stepping all over percy and percy being called stupid and hit all the time. Then others might read these fanfic and that impression would start to worm its way. At least that’s what i think, how bout u guys?
I mean, they clearly haven't read most of the series. While yes, Annabeth has been legitimately rude to Percy in the first book, especially after that incident with Medusa. But she did own up to what she said, and she did soften up over time as she got to know Percy. Luke and Annabeth however, HOLY SHIT THAT "RELATIONSHIP" WAS TOXIC AND ABUSIVE!
People also have to understand that they are Demigods and thus are a lot more resilient than humans are, what hurts an average mortal won't really hurt them.
Also, no one is talking about how "Wise Girl" is sarcastic and supposed to mean Annabeth thinks too highly of herself and isn't as smart as she thinks she is. Like it's literally just as bad but no one says anything? Percy has also joked about ANnabeth dying. But I think it's fine because if you aren't jokingly insulting your friends and they aren't jokingly insulting you back you have a boring friendship. And Percy abandoned all of camp to hang out with Rachel right before a war. Multiple times. Annabeth had every right to be mad. Percy's carelessness cost Silena her life. Silena was one of Annabeth's friends. I love my boy Percy but the "Annabeth is so toxic" people need to stop with their double standard crap.
Excuse me, how was Sileana’s death my fault!? And I didn’t abandon camp! I was hanging out with my friend on the first day of summer! (Not my fault she kissed me either)
@Dark__ Wolf Yes it is. Percy has an insulting nickname too, but he never gets called out in it. Annabeth has an insulting nickname and she gets called out on it. It's the literal definition of a double standard.
@@percyjackson9336 You hung out with Rachel most every day that summer. TLO takes place in August, not June. If you were at camp, Clarisse would've joined the war, and Silena would still be alive.
I’m kinda scared to say this (please don’t hunt me down Percabeth shippers) but I’ve never been fond of Percabeth as a relationship or Annabeth (I never liked her because I’m very stuck on first impressions and they matter a lot to me, and she didn’t leave a good one. She’s a good character but if she was an actual person, no way would I ever talk to her. That would be a no.) Now this could just be me, but I more enjoy platonic relationships and I was pretty happy with Percabeth platonically, Percy, Grover and Annabeth all were a little family of three and it kinda felt that with very book it became more of a found family thing to me. I’m not really one for romantic relationships and I was kinda meh with the last book of PJO, it was fine but Percy and Annabeth dating wasn’t my favourite (that and I was pretty upset with how Rachel’s character was being treated, I’m not a Perachel shipper, I think they were good friends but yeah) because I had always seen them as friends. Then HoO came, and everyone was dating someone, half the relationships to me weren’t amazing and Percy and Annabeth were acting out of character and I just didn’t want that so I ended up dropping it.
"Annabeth's voice caught on the word friend. Percy was a lot more than that. Even boyfriend really didn't cover it. They'd been through so much together, at this point Percy was part of her--a sometimes annoying part, sure, but definitely a part she could not live without." I think this sums up that Annabeth is an amazing girlfriend. Also, Percy would know what abuse is. He lived with Gabe. And, didn’t Annabeth have an abusive stepmother?
Hey, the lost video! I managed to catch it yesterday. As for the topic, I wouldnt really call it toxic or abusive. Context is everything. Its not like theres any signs of abuse when they're not in extreme circumstances
Ocasional Abusive acts in a healthy relationship does not make the relationship abusive. I don't thing Percybeth is toxic or abusive. They are warriors so it is normal for them to fight each other as a game or training. The judo flip is a borderline though. I know how hard it can hurt, especially when it is unexpected but at that point both of them had way worse than a fall from 1m high. This is normal for them. Not for us mere mortals, but for the greatest demigod heroes of the era.
It's hilarious to me how some people grasp so hard at straws just to cause drama. Not devaluing other people's opinion but their reasoning is just flawed at best
I don’t think that any of these scenes are signs of abusive relationships, but I can never in my life imagine a guy judo slamming their girlfriend onto a rock pavement like Annabeth did to Percy, I can see them acting stroppy or cold towards there partner in that situation but not to that level.
This doesn't have some to do with the video but I am in a Percy's Facebook group and somebody say this: "What really happened: 'Bob says Hello' What happened in my mind: 'Hey Zoë, Bob says Hello'" And I want you to cry with me 😭 (P.D I see your videos from Mexico and are really awesome. Thanks to make the waiting for a Satyr very less painful -I'm learning English, so maybe here are a lot of wrong phrases, sorry 😐-)
What people fail to recognize is their circumstances and phisical ability. Being demigods their physical strength is very different from from a regular mortal and they can take hits much better. They also as you said spar with eachother very often which makes them understand the others limit by alot probably more than anything else, as you said Percy's reaction to the flip was laughing and happiness why? Because he saw no hurt or mean for hurt and that all that flip was Annabeth love and affection overflowing while also being daughter of a war God.
Whenever I see a percabeth video or art I just get chills, I smile and it just makes my day Why did Rick Riordan have to write percabeth so well? I mean there isn't a word good enough to describe it. I wish I was Percy because Annabeth is just too amazing.
I do agree with you and think it was not a abusive relationship, but make sure you tread lightly as some of these things happen (amongst other worse things) in abusive relationships and I think unless you’ve been in one it is hard to judge. I also understand your point about context but I know (as someone who is insecure about my smarts) I think I would feel offended and not good enough.
Idk I started the video on your side but after listening to your explanations it does come across as somewhat abusive. Your main reasoning against it being that is Annabeth’s intent and Percy’s reaction, but both those things can still be positive while the action itself can still be abusive. And as someone who read the books while the target age and after, annabeth’s teasing always came across a little mean spirited at times.
i agree , he could have laughed in fear of looking weak , reactions arent always how a person is felling , like how somw people laugh when in pain , you cant say its not toxic cause of how he reacts , in the end shes still hurting him on purpose
I wouldn't quite put them as toxic or abusive, but Annabeth can be harsh sometimes, and judo-flipping Percy was uncalled for. After House of Hades their relationship was about as healthy as you can get. Also, the Seaweed Brain argument is just reaching because 'Wise Girl' was also originally directed at Annabeth to mock her parentage, but both of them grew to love the nicknames, at least when coming from each other.
The judo flip thing was largely playful one, and Percy probably expected it, and their relationship was already really string before Tartarus Tbh if my gf judo-flipped me after being apart for so long, I would probably think that I have found a loving gf. I wouldn't resent her and most likely it would be playful one, as it was here. It wasn't really abuse, and Annabeth had a lot of emotions at this time.
As for why Annabeth Judo-flipped Percy, she might not have known that Percy had lost the curse of Achilles yet, and her emotions just got the best of her. It's still one of the most iconic scenes in the whole series.
8:19 Annabeth was taller than Percy until TLO 14:54 I agree with this assessment 18:01 In context, this would’ve killed him with the curse of Achilles. This is the only one that would even count as physical abuse.
I agree with you, I know what it's like to be in an abusive relationship and I was abused as a little little child. So I know what an abusive relationship looks like. Percabeth in my opinion isn't abusive. I had a friend that I've known since elementary school and we did playful hitting and I've said "I'm gonna k*** you!" In a playful manner. I think of that when people say Percabeth is abusive. I love Percabeth and I don't know why people think it's abusive.. maybe they're in an abusive relationship themselves and they're just pulling their anger on a fictional couple. I don't know
The thing is, people forget how humans act and judge them harshly just because they can. If you put yourself into their shoes, maybe you wouldn't judge so hard. I have been abused. I know abuse when I see it, especially when reading Percy's POV. He's not afraid and is not distressed at all. If she were abusive, he wouldn't have missed her so much (as he did in Titan's curse and Son of neptune). There would have been some dread. Even if he didn't realize it was abusive. Annabeth took a knife for him and he fell into tartarus for her. There is an even amount of love and sacrifice put into their relationship. And whether or not a relationship is abusive or not isn't an opinion. It's a fact and Percy and Annabeth are not toxic or abusive. They are children for goodness sake.
Why Percabeth Isn’t a Good Ship (Sorry 2x) I’m definitely getting cancelled- 1. Annabeth is physically abusive. The fandom makes this point seem controversial and debatable, but it’s really not. The definition of abuse is hitting someone. Annabeth hit Percy. Therefore, Annabeth abused Percy. Is that really that hard to understand? Annabeth hit Percy for the first time in The Titan’s Curse when she, Percy, and Thalia were looking for the di Angelo siblings. She punched him in the gut when he asked her who he should ask to dance with him. Annabeth knows that Percy can be oblivious at times...but punishes him when it benefits her? The second time was in The Mark of Athena, when she judo-flipped him because she missed him. That’s...what?? Usually when people are worried about someone else, they hug or kiss them, not flip them over their shoulder. And yes Annabeth kissed him first, but the judo-flip was completely unnecessary. Annabeth punished Percy for ‘leaving’ her despite him being kidnapped and his memory wiped. And everyone’s like ‘But Percy didn’t feel any pain!!11!!1!’ The chapter wasn’t in his point of view, so that claim is a guess. Just cause he didn’t say ‘Ow’ doesn’t mean he wasn’t in pain. Also- Annabeth slammed him on a stone pavement on his back. That definitely hurts, even if Percy is a demigod, physically strong, and has gotten hurt a lot. There’s a difference between ‘playful hitting’ and actually hurting someone. Yes they trained a lot, but this isn’t training. This is Annabeth punishing Percy for being traumatized with yet another life-threatening quest and being kidnapped. I don’t remember Percy judo-flipping Annabeth after he saw her again when she got kidnapped in TTC. Besides, the Romans were about to take out their weapons when they saw Annabeth attack Percy, so if all of them thought it was an attack...it was most likely an attack. Even Annabeth said herself “I only attack my boyfriend like that”. The thing is, if it was Percy who flipped Annabeth over his shoulder and slammed her on her back or punched her in the gut, all the fans immediately would’ve freaked out and cancelled him, calling him a horrible and abusive boyfriend, but because it’s the girl hitting the guy, it’s fine apparently. Nothing wrong with it, right? And then Riordan (and the fandom) had the audacity to romanticize that abuse. Abuse isn’t a sweet, romantic gesture. Stop making it seem like it is. That’s disgusting. 2. Annabeth is also verbally abusive and toxic. Annabeth canonically lowered Percy’s self-esteem, constantly insulted him and his intelligence despite knowing he was insecure about it and always getting kicked out of schools and getting bad grades (even with her so-called ‘endearing’ name for him ‘Seaweed Brain’), and the overall idea of Percabeth is a super smart, pretty girl making a guy with below average intelligence feel insecure about himself. Percy’s self-esteem has plummeted since he met Annabeth and her behavior is never called out or even noticed, which implies some manipulation going on. Annabeth is shown to be extremely capable of manipulating her enemies and anyone else she pleases, and there are quite a few signs she’s using it against Percy (his feelings of obligation, fear, and guilt of and over her, questioning himself, having strings attached, always only thinking of her and no one else in his life, etc.), especially since Percy begins to gradually stop noticing Annabeth’s wrong and toxic behavior as the story progresses. 3. Annabeth only likes Percy cause he’s the chosen one. Annabeth only hung around Percy since The Lightning Thief cause she thought he was ‘the one’ and so she could finally go on a quest. She literally used Percy to go out to the mortal world and ‘prove herself’ cause really, all she cares about is glory, which is shown multiple times throughout the series with all her pride and ambitions. Plus the fact that Chiron made Annabeth swear on the River Styx that she would keep Percy from danger is a pretty clear sign she didn’t stick around him just cause she wanted to, but because she felt obligated to and cause it would benefit her. Take all of this and it’s kind of obvious Annabeth only hung around Percy cause he was the chosen one of the prophecy, a son of one of the Big Three, and was destined to go on multiple quests and play a big part in the mythological world, which is what she always wanted since book one. 4. It was forced. Since the beginning of book one, it was so obvious that Percy and Annabeth were going to get together that their relationship ended up being boring, dull, and flat. Riordan made it so obvious they were going to be a couple that nothing that happened to their relationship really mattered, cause everyone knew it would work out in the end (which is probably why everyone wrongly hated on Rachel) so what happened in between didn’t matter. Their relationship was the typical ‘male lead and female lead’, ‘bad boy trouble-maker skater and nerdy good girl’ power couple that was way too clear. And Riordan made it worse by pushing their relationship and shoving it into the readers’ faces way too much. In MoA Annabeth states that she’s always had a crush on Percy (since they were twelve) which immediately rips all the development their relationship (which was supposedly ‘friends to lovers’, but not anymore) had away. Riordan made up a bunch of honestly dumb scenarios that were legit cringe to make Percabeth seem like ‘OTP’ that really didn’t make sense. 5. It ruined their characters. Percy and Annabeth would’ve been way better off as just friends. After they got together in HoO, all their personality and everything else that made them independent was destroyed to make room for more ‘Percabeth’. All of Annabeth’s skills, bravery, intelligence, pride, ferocity, judgmentalism, and all the other traits and flaws that made her a well-written character were never utilized or even mentioned. All she thought about was Percy, and the same goes for him. His loyalty, sarcasm, humor, obliviousness, etc. disappeared to make room for arrogant Annabeth fanboy. In PJO, they were amazingly well-written and great role models for younger readers (especially Annabeth), but in HoO their characters were exclusively ‘Annabeth’s boyfriend’ and ‘Percy’s girlfriend’. Their characters were completely dependent on each other, and they were way better off as just friends. 6. Annabeth is way too possessive. And creepy. It’s fine and honestly normal for people to get jealous when another person likes someone they do, but Annabeth’s jealousy was downright creepy. Not only did she not know if her feelings for Percy were reciprocated or not, but she also didn’t know if Percy and Rachel liked each other, either. The very first time she met Rachel she immediately hated her. That’s not ‘I’m jealous cause this girl likes the guy I do’, that’s ‘I’m jealous cause the guy I like has another female friend’. She had no reason to believe that Rachel and Percy liked each other and has no say in who they can like, either. She thought that she and Percy absolutely had to be in a relationship and that he couldn’t even have friends with different genitals than him. And remember when Annabeth literally stalked Percy in The Sea of Monsters? Like when she creeped by his window, constantly watched him, and kept tabs on him just cause she ‘couldn’t find the right time’ to tell him something cause he was ‘never alone’ despite him being alone multiple times and despite the fact that she literally could’ve just knocked on his door like a normal person instead of creeping around his cabin and staring at him through the windows? Again- switch the roles. If it was Percy who was stalking Annabeth, everyone would’ve immediately called him a creep. If- according to Tumblr and almost everyone who read Twilight- Edward is a creep for stalking Bella, then Annabeth is a creep for stalking Percy.
@@-._.-What-Is-Up-._.- With all due respect I disagree. I don't think she's abusive. I already said my part of the argument and I don't have the energy to go on about how she isn't abusive. This video also described perfectly why she isn't abusive. You're right. It isn't a debate. She's not abusive. She's got flaws but calling her s a stretch. You will never change my mind. Sorry I couldn't change yours.
As someone who disagrees with you. I wouldn't most of these parts a proof. I think honestly what happened was Rick Riordan isn't good at writing girls or relationships. Think about Frank and Hazel. I think they're adorable, just a bit icky. Same with Percy and Annabeth. It's fine, just icky. Truly a product of it's time.
8:07 i dont think i have the right time here but as a short friend, I agree. it's not that they have different roles of power like the tall friend is more powerful, and it's fine for the short friend to hit them because of the strength difference. Also playfullness.
8:09 you just described my relationship with my best friend, he’s super tall and I’m short so sometimes I hit him playfully and he normally doesn’t, although one time he picked me up and threw me on to my bed I got so scared hahahaha
Do I think Percabeth is a toxic or abusive relationship? NO! In my opinion this is a perfect first relationship but since we don’t know what happens to Percy and Annabeth after going off to college then I am open to the idea that they might grow apart but that their friendship will always remain. So maybe they stay together and maybe they don’t but they remain friends.
I feel like Percy would know what a abusive relationship looks like he had to deal with smelly Gabe so if Anna Beth was abusive he wouldn't stay with her
I never thought of it as toxic, but I don’t ship it because a lot of what they do is something I more do with my siblings than with my friends, so it always felt like a sibling like relationship for me, which is why I don’t technically appeal to Percabeth. That does not mean I will bash it, but I will get defensive if Toxic Percabeth shippers try to send me hate and death threats for not shipping them/shipping other ships such as Percico
I see what you did there with the taller friends metaphor, you didn't just wanna say Percy is stronger than Annabeth so you said it in a way without saying it
I don't consider Percabeth abusive per se, a bit toxic yes. And definitely more so than basically any other canon ship in the series (yes, including Jiper). Mainly because Annabeth is VERY clingy. And she has full reasons to be so, being the child of trauma basically, but that doesn't mean she is not. She is so desperate for love and appreciation that she clings on anyone she manages to get close to in the moment (starting from Luke and Thalia, and later Percy). She'd probably be happier with someone else, but she chose Percy, more for what he represents (someone who'll stay with her forever) than for who he is. That's most likely why she got so upset when he disappeared and when he "died". He left her and in a sense activated her insecurities. The two have basically nothing in common anyway personality and interests-wise. Also, they basically become the one person in HoO, losing their individual identities almost to the entirety (which is why I was usually bored by their Tartarus scenes). One of the main postulates of healthy relationship is: first it's me and you, and then it's us. We still exist as individual people. And it's sad, because I *was* actively rooting for them in PJO when I re-read it, even if I was aware it's not the perfect ship for many reasons. So it might just have something to do with their characterization in HoO. PS I didn't see any of the scenes you mentioned as abusive :)
No their relationship is not toxic or abusive, but it is unhealthy. They both need theraphy and I feel that in the long run they will both break up. I honestly don't feel like they are a forever couple and honestly they have almost nothing in common...? Like besides being demigods obviously. I liked them better as friends tbh. I used to be such a Percabeth fan, but when I grew up and read through the books again with an older mindset and not a teenage one I ended up disliking Annabeth's character alot. I'm also reading a fic that calls out all of the characters (not only Annabeth, but all the main characters, and yes even Percy) faults and now I look at their relationship way differently.
i think the only part that might be abuse is when percy tried to see how much misery Misery could take which if i really said it was abuse then i would have needed to stop reading when it said annabeth was scared of percy at that moment since if you remember he stopped since she was scared of him meaning without context it could be abuse but with it then it will not be abusive
I don't see percabeth is a toxic relationship, but I think I think caleo is. The reason is because calypso and leo argue quiet a lot (it reminds me of my parents). It's true that they don't physically harm each other, but the fighting can lead to psychological harm and can break a relationship and a person's mental heath. I'm sorry if you don't agree
Omg like everyone can have their opnion but how can someone think they re toxic because of that?? It seems they are just trying to call it abusive for none reason
Also he laughed after she judo flipped him, like bro was fine and just with the context of all these situations what they do has no real intention of hurting or anything like that
Honestly, for that second example, remember when in Stranger Things' second season, Steve tells Dustin that his ass is grass if he ever tells anyone how Steve does his hair? Yeah, that's also abusive by the same logic.
“Context matters” I am not saying I disagree with her but you made it sound like the shorter person can punch the taller friend when in the beginning of the book percy said annabeth grew a few inches taller than him but I know you were mostly giving an example but I feel like it it’s more like mostly the girl can punch the guy since he is genetically stronger (from being a male)
Percy would KNOW if it’s abusive, because he lived with Gabe, a very abusive man. He knows what abuse looks like, and doesn’t even consider if Annabeth is.
U know abusive victims tend to fall in relationships with abusive ppl? Right?
And not to mention, Percy has an attachment to ppl.
@@bl00dyroseshe was not attached to gabe
@@RandomGirl_x are you dumb? Or do u lack comprehension?. Percy does have attachment issues..especially with Annabeth
I think the strongest reason why Percabeth isn't toxic is that in the House of Hades, quote "Her voice caught on the word friend. Percy was more than that. Even boyfriend really didn't cover it. They'd been through so much together. At this point, Percy was part of her. A sometimes annoying part, sure, but definitely a
part that she could not live without." That I think proves everything
I mean they are one part of each other how can Percabeth be toxic?
This quote is sweet, though your s/o should be your compliment, not your other half, in my opinion. Too much dependancy can be toxic, but i dont think they have that here.
WHAT PAGE I NEED TO KNOW
"Have you seriously never threatened to kill your friends" this will be my yearbook quote.
I am going to also use that as my yearbook quote
I actually told my best friend that I want to castrate and kill him.
Mine will be: “i didn’t want to be a half-blood. Well, too bad Percy, I did.”
Yes as a joke
Seriously I say to my friends all the time
If they say a bad joke or tell something they shouldn’t I say I will kill or kill u later
They argue like normal people. They fight and joke like normal people. I think it’s a great representation of how in normal relationships, things aren’t perfect and people don’t treat each other amazingly all the time. But that doesn’t mean they don’t love each other. They are so great together because of their conflicts. And a lot of accusations against them are just banter anyway.
I 💯% agree! That's why I love Rick Riordan ships. Like how you said, people are never perfect in a relationship, and a great example of that are Percabeth, and even Fierrochase.
@@rileysgameoverworld84 same
@@rileysgameoverworld84 Piper and Jason was bad, and Hazel and Frank was, I don't know, not too memorable.
Percabeth was just too big that everything else couldn't match it
@@jamesindia6131Might be a hot take but Hazel and Frank's relationship is the most interesting part for me in the second books I enjoy there characters a lot
omg got yes, judo flipping ur boyfriend against a stone for being kidnapped and blame him not his kidnapper such goals
It's probably the healthiest relationship in Riordanverse (if there's one to pick)
I personally believe that it’s the opposite of abusive I think it shows trust and comfort within there relationship. These moments are also some the best reasons why this ship is so amazing and ship worthy and it shows how there soul mates. No hate on anyone who thinks the opposite.
Ye
I think their great but out of context...
Cool, u can think what you want to think.
@@endlessoceans9038 yeah lmao out of context it looks so wrong to some people but to me even out of context its perfect haha
I don’t think Percabeth is abusive either, but I do kind of understand why it might seem abusive from the surface.
Here’s my opinion::
#1: the dance scene
Personally, I don’t think this is abusive. It’s simply a play hit. Percy wasn’t hurt and Annabeth didn’t want to hurt him. Plus, they’re sparring partners and fight together all the time.
#2: the sewer
Once again, I don’t think this is abusive either. Sure, it’s a little mean but not uncalled for. Not only is Annabeth having to help a god she’s not on great terms with, but she is getting drenched with nasty New York sewer water. We also know Percy didn’t take it personally or wasn’t hurt by her comments and actions because he knows he deserves it and he knows she doesn’t mean it. Plus, once again, sparring partners.
#3: the judo flip
Once again, not abusive. Annabeth has had an extreme amount of emotions building up over the last few months. She isn’t great at handling them so anger and bitterness comes out. Annabeth is trained in combat so she knows how to properly flip someone and Percy knows how to land. Plus, we see that Percy laughs. He knows Annabeth well enough to know what she’s feeling and why she does what she does.
#4: Seaweed Brain
In the first Percy Jackson book, Annabeth calls Percy Seaweed Brain as a joke. She was simply teasing him as most twelve year olds do. Overtime, however the name became less of a tease and more of a nickname or a sign of their friendship. It shows their relationship’s growth.
agree with you 100%, percabeth in my opinion is beautiful and if you are right in everything in the judo flip Annabeth was feeling many emotions, happiness for seeing Percy and knowing that he can with him but at the same time sadness and concern that Percy has changed among other things and is also feeling other emotions (anger, calm etc), the seaweed brain Annabeth was joking at the beginning but in the end it remained as an affectionate and funny nickname from Annabeth for example to my younger brother he said muggle as a loving and funny nickname and well It was left as a nickname in the dance there if I don't remember which one you are talking about if the Titan's curse and I don't remember what happened jsjs I'm going to reread that part so I can't tell you my opinion Like sewer's, I don't remember very well which one you are talking about, sorry, I'm very forgetful, but you're right
The judo flip made my whole night when I read it for the first time this morning
just because she's mad odesn't excuse her actions though, she was pissed off at him that he got kidnapped, she knew he got kidnapped yet she was pissed off, also she has jealousy issues, whenever a girl is within a one mile radius of him she assumes the worse.
i hope someone sees this because i am very confused? what is the sewer u are talking about? pls help me out❤️
@@rev0568No, it's she gets immediately jealous of the girls and doesn't even direct her anger towards Percy and becomes suspicious of them immediately
Couple of things
1) annabeth's love language appears to be playful violence
2) she was raised to fight if you were raised to fight what would you do in these situations... React in the way you've been taught
I rest my case
U have to consider THEY ARE NOT NORMAL MORTALS, THEY SERIOUSLY HAVE GODLY BLOOD FOR GODS' SAKE .......
Also: IF ANNABETH WAS ABUSIVE, HE WOULD NOT BE IN THE RELATIONSHIP! HE LIVED WITH GABE, AN INCREDIBLY ABUSIVE MAN, FOR TWELVE YEARS OF HIS LIFE! HE CAN RECOGNIZE ABUSE!
@@pipermclean7980doesn't make it okay?
@@WhiteSwan2011do u know abusive victims can still fall in toxic relationships filled with abuse? How DELUSIONAL can Percabeth fans be. Like I love percabeth but u gotta acept that
YES. HITTING UR PARTNER, SUCH LOVE LANGUAGE
I laughed when I watched this. I 100% agree that they aren’t toxic.
You're right. Context is everything. Percy and Annabeth are basically child soldiers. Of course their love language would look a little different compared to the average person. Abuse usually has a negative effect on the victim, but Percy is never depicted as being afraid of Annabeth. He literally laughs in that excerpt where she judo flips him. From what I recall, they have pretty good and open communication within their relationship. They strengthen and support each other through thick and thin, including the depths of Tarturus. Honestly, they're my fave power couple.
Percy IS LITERALLY SCARED OF ANNABETH AND IT'S PLAYED FOR LAUGHS.
Sorry but rick make leo's friend punch him for being missing, despite leo being an abused victim. Rick never touched any topic of the effects the abuse had on Percy and Sally, he write a coming out scene where the gay boy from the 1920's was FORCED to leave the closet, when coming out is supposed to be safe. Don't excuse it with them being child soldiers. It's just Riordan's shitty writting.
And Annabeth isn't scared of Percy @@bl00dyroses? In House of Hades, Percy literally nearly kills the misery goddess, Akhyls by controlling poison, like he would water and Annabeth is described as VISUALLY FRIGHTENED! Next Leo: You haven't punched your friend playfully before? I know I have. And Leo was gone for who knows how long. I think that's justified. Gabe's abuse: At the end of The Lightning Thief, when Percy is reunited with Sally and Gabe, Sally FLINCHED when Gabe raised his hand at her. We see the effects Gabe's abuse has on Sally so that's another point against you. And Nico's coming out scene with Jason and Cupid. Cupid FORCED Nico too. A god, a LOVE GOD at that is forcing Nico to out himself. Not any of Nico's friends. The point of that scene is SUPPOSED to be unsafe. It's not supposed to be enjoyable for the reader and any of the characters involved save for Cupid. And clearly it made you uncomfortable. You are entitled to your opinion but these characters have gone through stuff most of us CAN'T even imagine, so yeah, their love languages are going to be different than most. It's not just Riordan's "shitty" writing, as you say
Why Percabeth Isn’t a Good Ship (Sorry 2x)
I’m definitely getting cancelled-
1. Annabeth is physically abusive. The fandom makes this point seem controversial and debatable, but it’s really not. The definition of abuse is hitting someone. Annabeth hit Percy. Therefore, Annabeth abused Percy. Is that really that hard to understand? Annabeth hit Percy for the first time in The Titan’s Curse when she, Percy, and Thalia were looking for the di Angelo siblings. She punched him in the gut when he asked her who he should ask to dance with him. Annabeth knows that Percy can be oblivious at times...but punishes him when it benefits her? The second time was in The Mark of Athena, when she judo-flipped him because she missed him. That’s...what?? Usually when people are worried about someone else, they hug or kiss them, not flip them over their shoulder. And yes Annabeth kissed him first, but the judo-flip was completely unnecessary. Annabeth punished Percy for ‘leaving’ her despite him being kidnapped and his memory wiped. And everyone’s like ‘But Percy didn’t feel any pain!!11!!1!’ The chapter wasn’t in his point of view, so that claim is a guess. Just cause he didn’t say ‘Ow’ doesn’t mean he wasn’t in pain. Also- Annabeth slammed him on a stone pavement on his back. That definitely hurts, even if Percy is a demigod, physically strong, and has gotten hurt a lot. There’s a difference between ‘playful hitting’ and actually hurting someone. Yes they trained a lot, but this isn’t training. This is Annabeth punishing Percy for being traumatized with yet another life-threatening quest and being kidnapped. I don’t remember Percy judo-flipping Annabeth after he saw her again when she got kidnapped in TTC. Besides, the Romans were about to take out their weapons when they saw Annabeth attack Percy, so if all of them thought it was an attack...it was most likely an attack. Even Annabeth said herself “I only attack my boyfriend like that”. The thing is, if it was Percy who flipped Annabeth over his shoulder and slammed her on her back or punched her in the gut, all the fans immediately would’ve freaked out and cancelled him, calling him a horrible and abusive boyfriend, but because it’s the girl hitting the guy, it’s fine apparently. Nothing wrong with it, right? And then Riordan (and the fandom) had the audacity to romanticize that abuse. Abuse isn’t a sweet, romantic gesture. Stop making it seem like it is. That’s disgusting.
2. Annabeth is also verbally abusive and toxic. Annabeth canonically lowered Percy’s self-esteem, constantly insulted him and his intelligence despite knowing he was insecure about it and always getting kicked out of schools and getting bad grades (even with her so-called ‘endearing’ name for him ‘Seaweed Brain’), and the overall idea of Percabeth is a super smart, pretty girl making a guy with below average intelligence feel insecure about himself. Percy’s self-esteem has plummeted since he met Annabeth and her behavior is never called out or even noticed, which implies some manipulation going on. Annabeth is shown to be extremely capable of manipulating her enemies and anyone else she pleases, and there are quite a few signs she’s using it against Percy (his feelings of obligation, fear, and guilt of and over her, questioning himself, having strings attached, always only thinking of her and no one else in his life, etc.), especially since Percy begins to gradually stop noticing Annabeth’s wrong and toxic behavior as the story progresses.
3. Annabeth only likes Percy cause he’s the chosen one. Annabeth only hung around Percy since The Lightning Thief cause she thought he was ‘the one’ and so she could finally go on a quest. She literally used Percy to go out to the mortal world and ‘prove herself’ cause really, all she cares about is glory, which is shown multiple times throughout the series with all her pride and ambitions. Plus the fact that Chiron made Annabeth swear on the River Styx that she would keep Percy from danger is a pretty clear sign she didn’t stick around him just cause she wanted to, but because she felt obligated to and cause it would benefit her. Take all of this and it’s kind of obvious Annabeth only hung around Percy cause he was the chosen one of the prophecy, a son of one of the Big Three, and was destined to go on multiple quests and play a big part in the mythological world, which is what she always wanted since book one.
4. It was forced. Since the beginning of book one, it was so obvious that Percy and Annabeth were going to get together that their relationship ended up being boring, dull, and flat. Riordan made it so obvious they were going to be a couple that nothing that happened to their relationship really mattered, cause everyone knew it would work out in the end (which is probably why everyone wrongly hated on Rachel) so what happened in between didn’t matter. Their relationship was the typical ‘male lead and female lead’, ‘bad boy trouble-maker skater and nerdy good girl’ power couple that was way too clear. And Riordan made it worse by pushing their relationship and shoving it into the readers’ faces way too much. In MoA Annabeth states that she’s always had a crush on Percy (since they were twelve) which immediately rips all the development their relationship (which was supposedly ‘friends to lovers’, but not anymore) had away. Riordan made up a bunch of honestly dumb scenarios that were legit cringe to make Percabeth seem like ‘OTP’ that really didn’t make sense.
5. It ruined their characters. Percy and Annabeth would’ve been way better off as just friends. After they got together in HoO, all their personality and everything else that made them independent was destroyed to make room for more ‘Percabeth’. All of Annabeth’s skills, bravery, intelligence, pride, ferocity, judgmentalism, and all the other traits and flaws that made her a well-written character were never utilized or even mentioned. All she thought about was Percy, and the same goes for him. His loyalty, sarcasm, humor, obliviousness, etc. disappeared to make room for arrogant Annabeth fanboy. In PJO, they were amazingly well-written and great role models for younger readers (especially Annabeth), but in HoO their characters were exclusively ‘Annabeth’s boyfriend’ and ‘Percy’s girlfriend’. Their characters were completely dependent on each other, and they were way better off as just friends.
6. Annabeth is way too possessive. And creepy. It’s fine and honestly normal for people to get jealous when another person likes someone they do, but Annabeth’s jealousy was downright creepy. Not only did she not know if her feelings for Percy were reciprocated or not, but she also didn’t know if Percy and Rachel liked each other, either. The very first time she met Rachel she immediately hated her. That’s not ‘I’m jealous cause this girl likes the guy I do’, that’s ‘I’m jealous cause the guy I like has another female friend’. She had no reason to believe that Rachel and Percy liked each other and has no say in who they can like, either. She thought that she and Percy absolutely had to be in a relationship and that he couldn’t even have friends with different genitals than him. And remember when Annabeth literally stalked Percy in The Sea of Monsters? Like when she creeped by his window, constantly watched him, and kept tabs on him just cause she ‘couldn’t find the right time’ to tell him something cause he was ‘never alone’ despite him being alone multiple times and despite the fact that she literally could’ve just knocked on his door like a normal person instead of creeping around his cabin and staring at him through the windows? Again- switch the roles. If it was Percy who was stalking Annabeth, everyone would’ve immediately called him a creep. If- according to Tumblr and almost everyone who read Twilight- Edward is a creep for stalking Bella, then Annabeth is a creep for stalking Percy.
Annabeth can Judo flip me whenever she wants, and I’m fine with it. Annabeth literally invented the “affectionate judo-flip.”
Is that a trade mark, with full patent, on Affectionate Judo flip?
@@dylantennant6594 It’s patent pending.
Me: Wow. Percabeth is so cute
Universe: I agree
just look at it this way: is percabeth anything like gabe and sally's relationship? if your answer is no, as it should be, then we can all agree that percabeth is NON TOXIC
Fax
gabe and sallys relationship isnt the only kind of toxic relationship? you cant say a relationship isnt toxic because its not as bad as gabe and sally , that in itself is toxic
@@lima7_bean668 yes. half a year and my understanding has deepened. i do not mean it that way. of course, toxic relationships can come in all forms.
there is other types of toxic
@@livelaughlovelev i've acknowleged that. see my reply to a previous comment?
Imagine mistaking obvious slapstick humor directed towards a teenage demographic for legitimate emotional, mental, and physical trauma that is a serious issue that shouldnt just be thrown around willy nilly. Couldnt be me.
Oh abuse is funny,now? the "playful boy and tsundere girl that hits him" is so funny. Stfu
I think the context of the text really matters, as with most things.....Rick I think implies that it was obviously playful, and you can see that through percy’s reaction, he clearly has some knowledge of what abusive is, because of his mom’s relationship with Gabe, and it’s not mentioned that Percy is bruised or physically hurt in anyway. I get that Annabeth can come off as dominating and temperamental at times but I don’t think she ever has any intention of hurting Percy. I think you did a great job explaining the whole thing, cause abuse is quite a sensitive topic.
Also, what book is that next to the lightening thief graphic novel, it’s really hard to see cause of the glare of the light.....sorry it’s driving me insane at this point.😂
@@Unclaimeddemigod ohhh....thanks for clearing that up.....it’s weird seeing people have such negative interpretations of annabeth’s gestures though, to me they just look like evidence that she had a crush on Percy.
I was just coming to comment that Percy would be able to tell the difference between playful roughhousing and actual physical abuse due to his past experiences of being abused by Smelly Gabe and recognizing the signs of abuse to another when he saw his mom flinch! I’m glad someone else thought of this as well! And Percy has a bit of a defensive temper in the books too so if he felt it was abuse or unjustifiably too rough then he would definitely react and wouldn’t be hesitant or shy about it!
I'm saying this as someone who has been reading the Percy Jackson books for the FIRST TIME in the last few weeks and am still currently reading her way through House of Hades. So I haven't even been with this series for very long; not even done with HOO for goodness sake, yet I can say with full clarity that Percy and Annabeth is one of the most healthy romantic relationships I've seen in a long time in fiction. Even couples that I consider OTPs and that I'd die for have their issues that I find questionable (looking at you Nanami x Tomoe and NaLu), but Percy and Annabeth are not one of those OTPs. Even when they were supposed to be "enemies" in the 1st book, they didn't feel like there was actual animosity or hate between them, but more of a rivalry where they'd throw half-hearted jabs at each other. And sure, they argue, but that's NORMAL in ANY relationship. But the way they trust, confide, console, comfort, protect, and respect each other......how is that toxic?
To make up for it, Percy was willing to go to flippin’ Tarturus for Annabeth, rather than letting her go alone
I think that the only thing that could be a little bit (A LITTLE BIT) toxic is in The Battle of the Labyrinth when Rachel and Annabeth met. In the fourth book when Annabeth first meets Rachel, she starts to verbally attack her. Girl, you can't just start to insult a girl that you don't even know just because she and your bff/crush are getting along. Yes, Rachel seemed to like Percy and Annabeth noticed that, but Percy and Annabeth weren't a couple, she didn't have the right to act that possesive! This remind me of the moment when Ron starts to date Lavender and Hermione attacked him with magic. Again, Hermione had no right for doing this. Ron is his own person and can date who he wants. I think that's why I didn't like Annabeth in the fourth book. And that's all, is just my opinion and sorry if there are some spelling mistakes, English is not my first lenguage.
It was definitely a mistke of her, but that is not what I would call toxic. She is jealous. Yes, she definitely should not do this, and she knows it and admits it (if my memories are right).
So, she didn't have the best way to act, but that was not really toxic to me. Proof is that Rachel and her became good friends afterward
THANK YOU, I do agree that's toxic, but it also is in character and I think she grows out of it which is good, but that jealousy and possessiveness (while makes tons of sense for someone with that level of abandonment issues like Annabeth) just ain't healthy.
Yeah but both were downright flirting with him, so it was just petty-jealousy
Honestly i think that most of the people who say that percabeth is a toxic relationship are just trying to make people mad, there isn’t enough merit to this argument, and it’s a healthier relationship then I’m ever gonna have
The sheer audacity of those people claiming Percabeth is abusive/toxic
the fact that percy literally fell into tartarus (the most dangerous place and basically hell in greek mythology) so annabeth won’t be alone. like- that’s true love. another example is how both rejected immortality for each other, annabeth rejected the hunters of artemis and percy rejected the immortality thing from the gods. that’s just true love right there!
for the record as someone who's been in an abusive relationship you can't always tell when you're in the midst of it so Percy not mentioning anything in the narration isn't super relevant... however there are mountains more evidence that they have a healthy relationship than a unhealth one. Also on the point of the role reversal. Percy is the strongest demigod in the entire series and Annabeth is the smartest so when she flips him she knows that he'd be able to shake it off and she also knows how to safely flip someone because again she's brilliant.
It’s not abusive, but annabeth can get clingy and possessive and that can become toxic in certain situations. Otherwise, they are great.
Proof percabeth isn’t an abusive relationship:
- Percy turned down immortal because he couldn’t live without Annabeth (the last Olympian)
- Percy fell through Tartarus with Annabeth (Mark of Athena)
- Percy was the only one who believed Annabeth was alive when she fell of the cliff (titans curse)
-Annabeth looked for Percy for 8 months when he was at camp Jupiter (son of Neptune and lost hero)
- Annabeth has saved Percy’s life multiple times and same with Percy
- the one thing that kept him going through son of Neptune was the thought of Annabeth and seeing her again
I love percabeth too (Just my opinion) and I feel every relationships has to have its ups and downs (platonic or romantic) and that's why Percy and Annabeth fought a bit. I completely respect anybody else's opinion
Me and all of my friends are involved with martial arts, we spar together at least once a week, because of this we know the others abilities well. We will playfully fight even outside of spars because we know it won't hurt the other. This is what annabeth is doing.
Percabeth is probably my favorite canon ship across every series I've encountered, rivaled only by Clexa.
It really isn't toxic. It's a good relationship, and what a true real relationship normally looks like as well.
I do see it, how they could think Annabeth would be abusive. But the reality is Uncle Rick just isn’t the most creative when it comes to girl characters. In his books, there’s 2 types.
1. The girl is obsessed with how she looks, not the brightest, and reliable on others.
2. Tough, Into fighting, can handle Herself, sarcasm is life, smart.
More complex versions of Tomboy and Girly Girly. I mean Rachel was a blessing when it comes to personality. Annabeth of course is the second. So she has a more sarcastic and blunt way.
For the “If the roles switched it’d be wrong” thing, I get it. Because, Percy isn’t like that. He doesn’t playfully hit or use physical touch to show emotion.
Or maybe I just saw this from a writers pov lol
Idk I think that’s kinda a reach. Only silena and drew fall into that first category, and the only one I can think of that follow the second is annabeth. Not trying to be antagonistic, but I’m confused as to where this “Rick isn’t the best at writing female characters” comes from. Sadie might be my favorite protagonist after Percy, Sally is iconic and most of the other notable female characters differ from the two archetypes you mentioned. But maybe my perspective is just different because I’m a dude (and I’m not saying he writes PERFECT female characters, but their have been plenty of lacking male characters too so 🤷🏿♂️)
@@alphathegreat9458 i mean you have good points, but think about it. piper is kinda like rachel, sally could fall in the second. her and annabeth are kinda alike. and i personally havent read kane khronicles so idk sadie. but most of the girl that i know in rick's books are really similar to others. also clarisse and katie.
@@kenzieallen_ hmm idk. Piper is the “I’m not like other girls” character, and while I could see how Rachael also comes across that way, I see her more as a “I’m not like other people” character. She doesn’t really focus on not being like other girls, or people for that matter, she’s just a unique person. It never came across like she was trying to act a certain way (like piper definitely is), more so like that just who she is as a person. And I’m completely loss as to how sally is into fighting, and she’s not that sarcastic either. I guess you can say she’s tough, but that’s so vague you can use it to describe anyone. She did handle herself pretty well against Gabe though, so I’ll give you that, but i don’t think that’s good enough to say she fits. I honestly don’t remember that much about Katie Gardner but i don’t remember her having anything in common with Clarisse. IMO clarisse has the best arc of any female character, and is arguably the most well written one though so I might be biased.
@@alphathegreat9458 Yeah I honestly cannot see why people are suddenly saying he doesn't write female characters well. I'm a guy too but to me all characters are equally developed and nothing really stands out that makes me think "That's not how girls think/work/act". Also keeping in mind that these are middle grade books we are talking about, it's kinda hard to be super in depth about the psyche of someone when you have to do it to a certain audience. Plus his books always have that lighthearted comedic tone that lends itself to caricatures for ALL characters to some extent.
@@e443productions9 imo I think this recent train of thought is because the two most notable female characters in the two most popular series, Annabeth and Piper, are two of the most archetypical characters in the books, as opposed to most of the other female characters who are more relatively nuanced but lack the exposure of the other two.
I kind of wonder if the people who think percabeth is toxic just want to complain about something.
I think I agree with you and what many of these comments say; 1. Percy had past experiences with being abused and recognizing it in others when his mom flinched from Gabe, he would have known enough to know the difference between playful roughhousing and actual abuse
2. Percy has a defensive temper through the entire series and if he felt something was wrong or unjustified he would have pointed it out and reacted accordingly but he never called AnnaBeth out on the roughhousing
3. Sometimes it can be hard for people to figure out the limits of affection and physical interactions and some people can hesitate to interact physically with those close to them because they don’t trust themselves to not hurt loved ones or because they don’t trust loved ones to not hurt them, people who had been abused before sometimes have trouble with this because it can be hard to figure out where that line is between playful roughhousing in affection versus physical abuse. Percy and AnnaBeth had both had rocky pasts with monster attacks, running away due to neglect, and child abuse. Playful roughhousing with someone close in an affectionate way shows they trust each other to not hurt them and they trust themselves to not hurt each other, they also know they both have extensive training in combat and can take a hit without really getting hurt which probably helps. But it’s actually good to have a relationship where roughhousing a bit can be taken so casually between the two of them because it gives them a chance to practice finding the line between playful and painful and to continue to learn to trust themselves and others and a chance to practice how to physically interact without copying the abusive example they grew up with.
@Coffee1864 1864 I completely agree with you. I respect other’s opinions but I personally don’t understand how Annabeth is abusive. And this is a children’s book. The evidence shown doesn’t really prove anything from my perspective at least and as for the judo flip scene even though I wouldn’t have reacted the same way Annabeth did I never saw it as abusive. People need to cut Annabeth some slack she’s literally a teenager. Nobody is perfect not even her and she would obviously never want to hurt Percy. I love Percabeth even if it isn’t my favourite ship and it saddens me that some would view there completely normal relationship as toxic
That section in MoA that you read is one of my favorite parts in all of HoO!!! Oh my gods it’s like THE best couples scene EVERRRRRRRR!!
Being a PJO/HoO fan is the best life
I was today-years old when I kearned that apparently some people accuse Percabeth of being abusive? Ummm, if they are anything, it's over-protective and maybe just a bit codependent from all the-ya know- trama bonding.
Bro I thought she was going to say “I don’t have friends but that’s okay”
hahaha, that would have been true in High School but I have 3 whole friends now!
@@Unclaimeddemigod nice!
@@Unclaimeddemigod how old are you?
For the Titan's Curse thing, look, ALL demigods are known to have more strength than regular mortals. At camp, people are ALWAYS inflicting physical harm on each other. It toughens them up and is considered normal. As long as the other person is personally OKAY with it, it's totally fine. Annabeth knows Percy's fine with it, and he is. It was just a playful punch, chill.
For the sewer water thing, (forgive these "things") again, Percy is also NOT abusing Annabeth, if you look at it like "Oh, Percy doesn't care if Annabeth dies of the filthy hands of NYC sewer water!" No. Percy needed to make sure he and Annabeth get outta there alive, KILLING the giant. Annabeth calling him a moron and telling him she'll kill him is just her quirky way of expressing her love, as we've seen. She DOES NOT mean ANY of it. Percy is used to it, and we know he's TOTALLY okay since it's in his POV, after all. He doesn't express ANY negative emotions.
For the judo-flip, Percy LAUGHS. I- I'm sure you don't laugh the way he's laughing in this scene when you're in pain. He doesn't express any "ow" or "That hurt." He's used to getting flipped and things while fighting battles, his back and head is strong enough to withstand it. He's a demigod with extra strength, after all.
LMAO the scenes you acted out in the middle made me laugh so much
@@Unclaimeddemigod probably a good idea 😂
This is the third time you upload this! Hope it stays up this time :I
I'm late to comment in here, but I feel that people who says percabeth is abusive are trivializing abusive relationships and for me this is sooo wrong to do
OK I saw the title and now I'm a little scared... Cause I love Percabeth.
Its alright, she’s not that abusive.
Hey Percy I hope you’re usage of the internet hasn’t attracted too many monsters
@@buggymah nah Leo made us phones that cant be tracked by monsters.
Oh good
I think percabeth being a toxic relationship originates from a lot of the fandom/ fanfic authors who exaggerates these instances and writes percabeth with annabeth stepping all over percy and percy being called stupid and hit all the time. Then others might read these fanfic and that impression would start to worm its way. At least that’s what i think, how bout u guys?
I mean, they clearly haven't read most of the series. While yes, Annabeth has been legitimately rude to Percy in the first book, especially after that incident with Medusa. But she did own up to what she said, and she did soften up over time as she got to know Percy. Luke and Annabeth however, HOLY SHIT THAT "RELATIONSHIP" WAS TOXIC AND ABUSIVE!
People also have to understand that they are Demigods and thus are a lot more resilient than humans are, what hurts an average mortal won't really hurt them.
Also, no one is talking about how "Wise Girl" is sarcastic and supposed to mean Annabeth thinks too highly of herself and isn't as smart as she thinks she is. Like it's literally just as bad but no one says anything? Percy has also joked about ANnabeth dying. But I think it's fine because if you aren't jokingly insulting your friends and they aren't jokingly insulting you back you have a boring friendship. And Percy abandoned all of camp to hang out with Rachel right before a war. Multiple times. Annabeth had every right to be mad. Percy's carelessness cost Silena her life. Silena was one of Annabeth's friends. I love my boy Percy but the "Annabeth is so toxic" people need to stop with their double standard crap.
Excuse me, how was Sileana’s death my fault!? And I didn’t abandon camp! I was hanging out with my friend on the first day of summer! (Not my fault she kissed me either)
@Dark__ Wolf Yes it is. Percy has an insulting nickname too, but he never gets called out in it. Annabeth has an insulting nickname and she gets called out on it. It's the literal definition of a double standard.
@@percyjackson9336 You hung out with Rachel most every day that summer. TLO takes place in August, not June. If you were at camp, Clarisse would've joined the war, and Silena would still be alive.
@@Unclaimeddemigod True
@@catherineturk3819 No, I went to camp.
but I thought Annabeth was taller in the titan's curse than Percy- Doesn't it say that somewhere?
@@Unclaimeddemigod oh ye
I’m kinda scared to say this (please don’t hunt me down Percabeth shippers) but I’ve never been fond of Percabeth as a relationship or Annabeth (I never liked her because I’m very stuck on first impressions and they matter a lot to me, and she didn’t leave a good one. She’s a good character but if she was an actual person, no way would I ever talk to her. That would be a no.) Now this could just be me, but I more enjoy platonic relationships and I was pretty happy with Percabeth platonically, Percy, Grover and Annabeth all were a little family of three and it kinda felt that with very book it became more of a found family thing to me. I’m not really one for romantic relationships and I was kinda meh with the last book of PJO, it was fine but Percy and Annabeth dating wasn’t my favourite (that and I was pretty upset with how Rachel’s character was being treated, I’m not a Perachel shipper, I think they were good friends but yeah) because I had always seen them as friends. Then HoO came, and everyone was dating someone, half the relationships to me weren’t amazing and Percy and Annabeth were acting out of character and I just didn’t want that so I ended up dropping it.
Same I don’t really like Annabeth she’s a bit rude-
I ship Percabeth but I kinda agree
@@strwberry_xoxo Wrong
I totaly agree
"Annabeth's voice caught on the word friend. Percy was a lot more than that. Even boyfriend really didn't cover it. They'd been through so much together, at this point Percy was part of her--a sometimes annoying part, sure, but definitely a part she could not live without."
I think this sums up that Annabeth is an amazing girlfriend. Also, Percy would know what abuse is. He lived with Gabe. And, didn’t Annabeth have an abusive stepmother?
Hey, the lost video! I managed to catch it yesterday. As for the topic, I wouldnt really call it toxic or abusive. Context is everything. Its not like theres any signs of abuse when they're not in extreme circumstances
@@Unclaimeddemigod I would have caught it the first time if I didn't get distracted
Ocasional Abusive acts in a healthy relationship does not make the relationship abusive. I don't thing Percybeth is toxic or abusive. They are warriors so it is normal for them to fight each other as a game or training. The judo flip is a borderline though. I know how hard it can hurt, especially when it is unexpected but at that point both of them had way worse than a fall from 1m high. This is normal for them. Not for us mere mortals, but for the greatest demigod heroes of the era.
Finally able to watch this! Waited so long but anticipation is the best!! Really really love and appreciate this long videos!!!
It's hilarious to me how some people grasp so hard at straws just to cause drama. Not devaluing other people's opinion but their reasoning is just flawed at best
Whoa people really have nothing to do for doing this type of theory. But cool video really love it.
I just saw the title and thought she thought they were a toxic ship.
yeaaaaaaaaaaah no they're my otp
@@Unclaimeddemigod I did not think you would reply, but you are literally my favorite youtuber EVER! I am obsessed with percabeth.
I don’t think that any of these scenes are signs of abusive relationships, but I can never in my life imagine a guy judo slamming their girlfriend onto a rock pavement like Annabeth did to Percy, I can see them acting stroppy or cold towards there partner in that situation but not to that level.
ye because if they did people would have flagged it instantly and there would have been a whole abuse thing
This doesn't have some to do with the video but I am in a Percy's Facebook group and somebody say this:
"What really happened:
'Bob says Hello'
What happened in my mind:
'Hey Zoë, Bob says Hello'"
And I want you to cry with me 😭
(P.D I see your videos from Mexico and are really awesome. Thanks to make the waiting for a Satyr very less painful -I'm learning English, so maybe here are a lot of wrong phrases, sorry 😐-)
Calling the things you mentioned abuse is like calling someone who occasionally drinks at parties an alcoholic
What people fail to recognize is their circumstances and phisical ability. Being demigods their physical strength is very different from from a regular mortal and they can take hits much better. They also as you said spar with eachother very often which makes them understand the others limit by alot probably more than anything else, as you said Percy's reaction to the flip was laughing and happiness why? Because he saw no hurt or mean for hurt and that all that flip was Annabeth love and affection overflowing while also being daughter of a war God.
Whenever I see a percabeth video or art I just get chills, I smile and it just makes my day
Why did Rick Riordan have to write percabeth so well? I mean there isn't a word good enough to describe it.
I wish I was Percy because Annabeth is just too amazing.
Remeber when Clarisse called Percy seaweed brain, en he was like, it is okay when Annebeth says it, not when someone someone else does it
Same thing happened when Thalia called him that
@@Unclaimeddemigod true!
Thanks for the reply :)
I do agree with you and think it was not a abusive relationship, but make sure you tread lightly as some of these things happen (amongst other worse things) in abusive relationships and I think unless you’ve been in one it is hard to judge. I also understand your point about context but I know (as someone who is insecure about my smarts) I think I would feel offended and not good enough.
Idk I started the video on your side but after listening to your explanations it does come across as somewhat abusive. Your main reasoning against it being that is Annabeth’s intent and Percy’s reaction, but both those things can still be positive while the action itself can still be abusive. And as someone who read the books while the target age and after, annabeth’s teasing always came across a little mean spirited at times.
i agree , he could have laughed in fear of looking weak , reactions arent always how a person is felling , like how somw people laugh when in pain , you cant say its not toxic cause of how he reacts , in the end shes still hurting him on purpose
I wouldn't quite put them as toxic or abusive, but Annabeth can be harsh sometimes, and judo-flipping Percy was uncalled for. After House of Hades their relationship was about as healthy as you can get.
Also, the Seaweed Brain argument is just reaching because 'Wise Girl' was also originally directed at Annabeth to mock her parentage, but both of them grew to love the nicknames, at least when coming from each other.
The judo flip thing was largely playful one, and Percy probably expected it, and their relationship was already really string before Tartarus
Tbh if my gf judo-flipped me after being apart for so long, I would probably think that I have found a loving gf. I wouldn't resent her and most likely it would be playful one, as it was here. It wasn't really abuse, and Annabeth had a lot of emotions at this time.
“Have you seriously never threatened to kill your friends?” So real😭🙏
As for why Annabeth Judo-flipped Percy, she might not have known that Percy had lost the curse of Achilles yet, and her emotions just got the best of her. It's still one of the most iconic scenes in the whole series.
in the titan's curse, annabeth is taller than percy but i didn't think that punch was meant to be mean
8:19 Annabeth was taller than Percy until TLO
14:54 I agree with this assessment
18:01 In context, this would’ve killed him with the curse of Achilles. This is the only one that would even count as physical abuse.
The Titan’s Curse is literally written from Percy’s POV. If he had been hurt, we would have known. It’s so obvious that Annabeth didn’t hurt him.
I agree with you, I know what it's like to be in an abusive relationship and I was abused as a little little child. So I know what an abusive relationship looks like. Percabeth in my opinion isn't abusive. I had a friend that I've known since elementary school and we did playful hitting and I've said "I'm gonna k*** you!" In a playful manner. I think of that when people say Percabeth is abusive. I love Percabeth and I don't know why people think it's abusive.. maybe they're in an abusive relationship themselves and they're just pulling their anger on a fictional couple. I don't know
I would have slammed the people who said that if she left the links
I'm happy I didn't then :)
The thing is, people forget how humans act and judge them harshly just because they can. If you put yourself into their shoes, maybe you wouldn't judge so hard. I have been abused. I know abuse when I see it, especially when reading Percy's POV. He's not afraid and is not distressed at all. If she were abusive, he wouldn't have missed her so much (as he did in Titan's curse and Son of neptune). There would have been some dread. Even if he didn't realize it was abusive. Annabeth took a knife for him and he fell into tartarus for her. There is an even amount of love and sacrifice put into their relationship. And whether or not a relationship is abusive or not isn't an opinion. It's a fact and Percy and Annabeth are not toxic or abusive. They are children for goodness sake.
Why Percabeth Isn’t a Good Ship (Sorry 2x)
I’m definitely getting cancelled-
1. Annabeth is physically abusive. The fandom makes this point seem controversial and debatable, but it’s really not. The definition of abuse is hitting someone. Annabeth hit Percy. Therefore, Annabeth abused Percy. Is that really that hard to understand? Annabeth hit Percy for the first time in The Titan’s Curse when she, Percy, and Thalia were looking for the di Angelo siblings. She punched him in the gut when he asked her who he should ask to dance with him. Annabeth knows that Percy can be oblivious at times...but punishes him when it benefits her? The second time was in The Mark of Athena, when she judo-flipped him because she missed him. That’s...what?? Usually when people are worried about someone else, they hug or kiss them, not flip them over their shoulder. And yes Annabeth kissed him first, but the judo-flip was completely unnecessary. Annabeth punished Percy for ‘leaving’ her despite him being kidnapped and his memory wiped. And everyone’s like ‘But Percy didn’t feel any pain!!11!!1!’ The chapter wasn’t in his point of view, so that claim is a guess. Just cause he didn’t say ‘Ow’ doesn’t mean he wasn’t in pain. Also- Annabeth slammed him on a stone pavement on his back. That definitely hurts, even if Percy is a demigod, physically strong, and has gotten hurt a lot. There’s a difference between ‘playful hitting’ and actually hurting someone. Yes they trained a lot, but this isn’t training. This is Annabeth punishing Percy for being traumatized with yet another life-threatening quest and being kidnapped. I don’t remember Percy judo-flipping Annabeth after he saw her again when she got kidnapped in TTC. Besides, the Romans were about to take out their weapons when they saw Annabeth attack Percy, so if all of them thought it was an attack...it was most likely an attack. Even Annabeth said herself “I only attack my boyfriend like that”. The thing is, if it was Percy who flipped Annabeth over his shoulder and slammed her on her back or punched her in the gut, all the fans immediately would’ve freaked out and cancelled him, calling him a horrible and abusive boyfriend, but because it’s the girl hitting the guy, it’s fine apparently. Nothing wrong with it, right? And then Riordan (and the fandom) had the audacity to romanticize that abuse. Abuse isn’t a sweet, romantic gesture. Stop making it seem like it is. That’s disgusting.
2. Annabeth is also verbally abusive and toxic. Annabeth canonically lowered Percy’s self-esteem, constantly insulted him and his intelligence despite knowing he was insecure about it and always getting kicked out of schools and getting bad grades (even with her so-called ‘endearing’ name for him ‘Seaweed Brain’), and the overall idea of Percabeth is a super smart, pretty girl making a guy with below average intelligence feel insecure about himself. Percy’s self-esteem has plummeted since he met Annabeth and her behavior is never called out or even noticed, which implies some manipulation going on. Annabeth is shown to be extremely capable of manipulating her enemies and anyone else she pleases, and there are quite a few signs she’s using it against Percy (his feelings of obligation, fear, and guilt of and over her, questioning himself, having strings attached, always only thinking of her and no one else in his life, etc.), especially since Percy begins to gradually stop noticing Annabeth’s wrong and toxic behavior as the story progresses.
3. Annabeth only likes Percy cause he’s the chosen one. Annabeth only hung around Percy since The Lightning Thief cause she thought he was ‘the one’ and so she could finally go on a quest. She literally used Percy to go out to the mortal world and ‘prove herself’ cause really, all she cares about is glory, which is shown multiple times throughout the series with all her pride and ambitions. Plus the fact that Chiron made Annabeth swear on the River Styx that she would keep Percy from danger is a pretty clear sign she didn’t stick around him just cause she wanted to, but because she felt obligated to and cause it would benefit her. Take all of this and it’s kind of obvious Annabeth only hung around Percy cause he was the chosen one of the prophecy, a son of one of the Big Three, and was destined to go on multiple quests and play a big part in the mythological world, which is what she always wanted since book one.
4. It was forced. Since the beginning of book one, it was so obvious that Percy and Annabeth were going to get together that their relationship ended up being boring, dull, and flat. Riordan made it so obvious they were going to be a couple that nothing that happened to their relationship really mattered, cause everyone knew it would work out in the end (which is probably why everyone wrongly hated on Rachel) so what happened in between didn’t matter. Their relationship was the typical ‘male lead and female lead’, ‘bad boy trouble-maker skater and nerdy good girl’ power couple that was way too clear. And Riordan made it worse by pushing their relationship and shoving it into the readers’ faces way too much. In MoA Annabeth states that she’s always had a crush on Percy (since they were twelve) which immediately rips all the development their relationship (which was supposedly ‘friends to lovers’, but not anymore) had away. Riordan made up a bunch of honestly dumb scenarios that were legit cringe to make Percabeth seem like ‘OTP’ that really didn’t make sense.
5. It ruined their characters. Percy and Annabeth would’ve been way better off as just friends. After they got together in HoO, all their personality and everything else that made them independent was destroyed to make room for more ‘Percabeth’. All of Annabeth’s skills, bravery, intelligence, pride, ferocity, judgmentalism, and all the other traits and flaws that made her a well-written character were never utilized or even mentioned. All she thought about was Percy, and the same goes for him. His loyalty, sarcasm, humor, obliviousness, etc. disappeared to make room for arrogant Annabeth fanboy. In PJO, they were amazingly well-written and great role models for younger readers (especially Annabeth), but in HoO their characters were exclusively ‘Annabeth’s boyfriend’ and ‘Percy’s girlfriend’. Their characters were completely dependent on each other, and they were way better off as just friends.
6. Annabeth is way too possessive. And creepy. It’s fine and honestly normal for people to get jealous when another person likes someone they do, but Annabeth’s jealousy was downright creepy. Not only did she not know if her feelings for Percy were reciprocated or not, but she also didn’t know if Percy and Rachel liked each other, either. The very first time she met Rachel she immediately hated her. That’s not ‘I’m jealous cause this girl likes the guy I do’, that’s ‘I’m jealous cause the guy I like has another female friend’. She had no reason to believe that Rachel and Percy liked each other and has no say in who they can like, either. She thought that she and Percy absolutely had to be in a relationship and that he couldn’t even have friends with different genitals than him. And remember when Annabeth literally stalked Percy in The Sea of Monsters? Like when she creeped by his window, constantly watched him, and kept tabs on him just cause she ‘couldn’t find the right time’ to tell him something cause he was ‘never alone’ despite him being alone multiple times and despite the fact that she literally could’ve just knocked on his door like a normal person instead of creeping around his cabin and staring at him through the windows? Again- switch the roles. If it was Percy who was stalking Annabeth, everyone would’ve immediately called him a creep. If- according to Tumblr and almost everyone who read Twilight- Edward is a creep for stalking Bella, then Annabeth is a creep for stalking Percy.
@@-._.-What-Is-Up-._.- With all due respect I disagree. I don't think she's abusive. I already said my part of the argument and I don't have the energy to go on about how she isn't abusive. This video also described perfectly why she isn't abusive. You're right. It isn't a debate. She's not abusive. She's got flaws but calling her s a stretch. You will never change my mind. Sorry I couldn't change yours.
As someone who disagrees with you. I wouldn't most of these parts a proof. I think honestly what happened was Rick Riordan isn't good at writing girls or relationships.
Think about Frank and Hazel. I think they're adorable, just a bit icky. Same with Percy and Annabeth. It's fine, just icky. Truly a product of it's time.
8:07 i dont think i have the right time here but as a short friend, I agree. it's not that they have different roles of power like the tall friend is more powerful, and it's fine for the short friend to hit them because of the strength difference.
Also playfullness.
I believe they are not abusive because literally a lot of there friendship is play fighting and being competitive. Please no hate. 😜
I don't think it's toxic but I think it's really overrated and they should've stayed friends.
100% agree. I loved them as friends
i think frazel could be better as friends cause everyone was dating and its like oh opposite sex can be friends
also the scenes u n ur brother acted were sooooo realistic (and funnnnnyyy) but realistic
8:09 you just described my relationship with my best friend, he’s super tall and I’m short so sometimes I hit him playfully and he normally doesn’t, although one time he picked me up and threw me on to my bed I got so scared hahahaha
I just realised that Titans curse sounds like something from AOT
When she explains why the judo flip isn‘t physical abuse she doesn’t even mention that Percy laughs even though she read that part
Do I think Percabeth is a toxic or abusive relationship? NO! In my opinion this is a perfect first relationship but since we don’t know what happens to Percy and Annabeth after going off to college then I am open to the idea that they might grow apart but that their friendship will always remain. So maybe they stay together and maybe they don’t but they remain friends.
i feel like they have been through too much to break up
I feel like Percy would know what a abusive relationship looks like he had to deal with smelly Gabe so if Anna Beth was abusive he wouldn't stay with her
I never thought of it as toxic, but I don’t ship it because a lot of what they do is something I more do with my siblings than with my friends, so it always felt like a sibling like relationship for me, which is why I don’t technically appeal to Percabeth. That does not mean I will bash it, but I will get defensive if Toxic Percabeth shippers try to send me hate and death threats for not shipping them/shipping other ships such as Percico
We got a tall girl same girl let’s go
They flirt by insults like magnus and Alex and halfborn and malery
I see what you did there with the taller friends metaphor, you didn't just wanna say Percy is stronger than Annabeth so you said it in a way without saying it
As soon as i saw the title i was like WHAT NO PERCABETH IS THE BEST SHIP EVER
I don't consider Percabeth abusive per se, a bit toxic yes. And definitely more so than basically any other canon ship in the series (yes, including Jiper). Mainly because Annabeth is VERY clingy. And she has full reasons to be so, being the child of trauma basically, but that doesn't mean she is not. She is so desperate for love and appreciation that she clings on anyone she manages to get close to in the moment (starting from Luke and Thalia, and later Percy). She'd probably be happier with someone else, but she chose Percy, more for what he represents (someone who'll stay with her forever) than for who he is. That's most likely why she got so upset when he disappeared and when he "died". He left her and in a sense activated her insecurities. The two have basically nothing in common anyway personality and interests-wise.
Also, they basically become the one person in HoO, losing their individual identities almost to the entirety (which is why I was usually bored by their Tartarus scenes). One of the main postulates of healthy relationship is: first it's me and you, and then it's us. We still exist as individual people. And it's sad, because I *was* actively rooting for them in PJO when I re-read it, even if I was aware it's not the perfect ship for many reasons. So it might just have something to do with their characterization in HoO.
PS I didn't see any of the scenes you mentioned as abusive :)
9:06 I CANT BELIEVE YOUVE DONE THIS
i literally took offense to just the title.
No their relationship is not toxic or abusive, but it is unhealthy. They both need theraphy and I feel that in the long run they will both break up. I honestly don't feel like they are a forever couple and honestly they have almost nothing in common...? Like besides being demigods obviously. I liked them better as friends tbh.
I used to be such a Percabeth fan, but when I grew up and read through the books again with an older mindset and not a teenage one I ended up disliking Annabeth's character alot. I'm also reading a fic that calls out all of the characters (not only Annabeth, but all the main characters, and yes even Percy) faults and now I look at their relationship way differently.
You don't have to have a lot in common to be in couple? And how is it even unhealthy? They are literaly the anchor of the other.
i think the only part that might be abuse is when percy tried to see how much misery Misery could take which if i really said it was abuse then i would have needed to stop reading when it said annabeth was scared of percy at that moment since if you remember he stopped since she was scared of him meaning without context it could be abuse but with it then it will not be abusive
*No one* *Me thinking of Bakugo cursing at Leo and Mineta being a weirdo*
Just saying in the Titan’s curse, it was mentioned that Annabeth was taller than Percy but still that doesn’t make Percabeth a toxic couple.
I don't see percabeth is a toxic relationship, but I think I think caleo is. The reason is because calypso and leo argue quiet a lot (it reminds me of my parents). It's true that they don't physically harm each other, but the fighting can lead to psychological harm and can break a relationship and a person's mental heath. I'm sorry if you don't agree
Omg like everyone can have their opnion but how can someone think they re toxic because of that?? It seems they are just trying to call it abusive for none reason
I was waiting for this video to be published and I forgot you live in a different timezone lol.
Also he laughed after she judo flipped him, like bro was fine and just with the context of all these situations what they do has no real intention of hurting or anything like that
But it says in the book that Annabeth was taller than Percy?
@@Unclaimeddemigod true
Honestly, for that second example, remember when in Stranger Things' second season, Steve tells Dustin that his ass is grass if he ever tells anyone how Steve does his hair? Yeah, that's also abusive by the same logic.
“Context matters” I am not saying I disagree with her but you made it sound like the shorter person can punch the taller friend when in the beginning of the book percy said annabeth grew a few inches taller than him but I know you were mostly giving an example but I feel like it it’s more like mostly the girl can punch the guy since he is genetically stronger (from being a male)
This is distracting me from my cramps, so thank you lol
also in the demigod files he has the curse of Achilles so he can't feel pain