@@Guts-DemonSlayer 50 Iq take, The dev is clearly stating that they want to push the game in a direction where one player could outplay 3 players (as any class) Atm id argue wizzards, barbarians, fighters and rangers have 1v3 outplay potential and whilst i dunno if its gonna be healthy for other classes to be able to do this "break the laws of physics" is a little peepee brained. Long day sorry if rude.
fun fact, SDF vision keeps changing every season previously he wanted to make gear system is like PoE gem sockets that holds stat rolls but after a whole season he come up with this update .
For what it's worth, looking at this from the outside, this game looks super interesting with the high lethality. Feels similar to like an ARPG version of old school Runescape or Ultima. The end result for this kind of design is such that you just can't place a high value on your gear. Ideally, getting a set that's "usable" doesn't take too long. In UO, my mule could spend like an hour making enough gear for a full 8 hours of PvP unless I was dying all the time. Not sure how it is in this game, but I love what the combat appears to be in the current state, not having seen it beforehand.
@RadishAcceptable tbh i like gear quality, ttk could go up but the fact that you can go into a normal dungeon with 0 risk and find bias purples people buy for over 1k feels right on for how acessable gesr should be, on the flip side that bis gear shouldn't 1 tap everything, ive died too many times as of recent to a ranger that with forceful shot just 1 taps me and pushes me away at the same time, followed by a backstep to make even more space, or by a boc warlock that's also running phantomize because spells suck when you can 1 tap and then get out for free
Idk how you can think a low ttk is fun or a good idea. Especially in a 3 tier dungeon system where you're investing up to 45 minutes just to get 1 tapped by a longbow.
@af635 i mean I'm sure he's talking about the shotgun that effectively 1 taps you with 5 longbow shots that you almost always land at least 2 more times than not you land 3 and the person coming at you falls over. Ranger longbow at this time can do in the range of 65-80 to the body, you hit 2 (which you almost always do and you 1 shot 7 out of 9 classes.... if you land 3 not a single class in the game unless building pdr can survive it.... tell me how that's balanced? The best part i know it's broken, I haven't died in 2 weeks and the only time I've even been threatened with death is a ranger vs ranger matchup, ive dropped multiple full pdr fighters by forcefully shooting into shotgun as long as you've landed like 1 shot before you get rushed you win 100% of the time, most of the time you don't even need the first shot, you just play a mini game of them walking at you until you push them away, and if at that point they full commit they die, or they try to run and I catch them, its simple, engage with me and you die... when played properly and with gear ranger is genuinely untouchable atm
They should have kept the linear base stat progression of rarities and just squished the rabdom modifiers. Squish the modifiers and make stat families which they did. The problem has been that gear is exponentially stronger. The gap between a legdndary bis and a common is so huge and when you make a full set if that its just so many times stronger that entering the dungeon with gear becomes a gamble. If you put on some good gear and happen to que with a really big fish you are just doomed. So closing the gear gap is a good thing. The problem is how they did it. The linear base stat is what guaranteed progression between rarities. It should have stayed. The poblem is the compouneing effect of a full set of high rolls and good rolls. If they just squished the roll range to really low maximums, the power gap would shrink without completely diminishing the value of hugher rarities. The barb buffs coupled with lowering armor rolls, armor base stat, health rolls, roll families for health, base health, is just completely out of place. Why would they ever make any major changes to any class at the same time as they are completely overhauling gear stats? And why buff barb at all? Barb was not weak.
I don't know why all the game designers feel like squishy character classes have to die quicker while ignoring tanky classes. There must be something wrong with the "game design theory" that the developers follow by the book that lead to this because i have heard it many times. I mean i am not that knowlegable in the details but it does seem the exact opposite what the playerbase wants. What is the reason? Maybe different dogmas in Asia that the developers try to cater to? Or just securing their jobs so they have to perpetually balance the game? What are your hypothesis?
they could have just nerf ranged things instead of giga buffed barbarian maybe the two hander buff is ok some more virarity on babarian perks armor pen is ok but everything else is too much same with the warlock buff armor nerfs and hp nerf i thought they could increase the hp of everyone but that is just smh else
All this could’ve been avoided by actively using the test server which they have available to them. Why do they just refuse to use it, even making the patches less frequent to allow for testing would lead to less catastrophic results. This game has been good at all times it had longer ttk. We need the games old leadership again. Sdf is terrible. The changes are always erratic, they don’t have an actual roadmap, they don’t say anything, they just add it. one good change mixed in with utterly garbage changes. Multi classing was one of their biggest mistakes and had to be removed for example. They never learn. They should of just said “We made loot easier to get”. And that’s it, the end. You equalled the playing field. It is still incredibly important to make your gear level representative of your skill as a player. This is all the end game grind of a game like this. It just feel incredibly rewarding to keep players interested. Getting good at combat, etc should be associated with this. By default, getting access to the gear to pvp with anyone instantly should not be a thing. Low ttk is not riveting at all. It’s just unloading your entire kit, with 0 tactics, 0 mechanics. You as the iniatiator just kill them with 0 chance for rebuttal. I feel like this reminds me of Tarkov, which is something which was completely dissatisfying to play for me and ultimately something I thought Dark and Darker would not do.
because they sold the test server as a 50$ premium version of the game, so obviously many people didnt buy it. then, when they actually needed to use it, it's too late. could they make the test server free, increasing the player numbers on it? sure, but then they'd be screwing over the people who bought the 50$ version dug a hole for themselves because they wanted to greed extra money
I was wondering why I was dying a lot more after the latest patch, turns out it's not totally my fault (It's a skill issue, obviously) but my hp was axed
You should talk to elite500 about it, the good old EU vlad streamer. He's SUPER into it and made a second channel to stream it even called elite5XX. He knows what they screwed up and what they didn't.
its not that a discord full of hundreds of people spamming it is enought right ? ive never seen a discord server so chaotic as the last 2 days. Its ridiculous.
Fuck it dude make more videos like this i used to listen to your 1h++ videos talking about game balancing like its a podcast all since league days ❤ keep it up and so shall i kappa
I don't understand how this patch changed that much from the loot quality patch. All it did was remove the need to constantly hit the auction house. You could already get legendaries for pennies. Now you just don't have to buy them. I personally quit before last season ended bc melee combat mechanics are non existent and if I wanted to play an fpshooter extraction game, there's plenty better ones on the market. But the game wasn't intended to have loot this poweful and available, and the game was much more fun before they started catering to people crying about how rare things were.
The only logical reasoning I can find for all the constant barb buffs is, that it's openly complained about how non existent melee combat is in the game. It's all ranged meta. Barb is the closest class they have to being a working melee class. I guess they feel like if they can just figure out how to make one class viable in melee, just one, that would be a win for them. Just my guess tho.
That seems a bit weird to focus on one single melee class when Fighter exists and his gear seems to be made or broken by whatever you bring in or find in the dungeon. Cleric arguably is a melee class as even with magic, it's more healing and supporting rather then offensive (apart from it's anti undead stuff).
@commandervex1626 it's just the closest I could come up with logically. Didn't say it wasn't completely asinine. 😅 Fighter, while in a good spot, and supposedly melee, is very viable as a ranged fighter. One of the issues currently is most classes are one shottable with a windlass. If you buff their melee, without restricting their ranged, they're even more op than barb, and people would complain about either thing. Cleric has melee, but I think is considered more of a support class, and has a designated role that it does really well already. Again, what I originally said is the closest thing I could get to an attempt at the logic behind barbarian getting buffed over and over and over through out the game's life, even though it has always been a top performer.
It's not just existing players. I don't own this game, and not seen much to change my mind. So they aren't likely to see a rolling player base, with new players picking it up as others leave. If I'd have seen more positive progress with the game, I'd prob have picked it up to mess about with m8s. But neither I nor they have bothered. There's just way better/fun games for us to mess about in. This game needs so much work done to it. Constantly messing with balance, and loot, is not development. That's just tweaking stats and RNG. If they carry on pretending to be working on the game, whilst hiding behind silly stat/loot changes, the game will be dead by spring. If they had new maps, and a Halloween themed thing going on. Add a few more undead monster types, or whatever. That would be something to flesh out the game, and maybe give existing players like yourself a reason to log in. Nobody is going to look at a balance destroying patch, and think “at last I can play this game again”.
No it's actually overall a great patch. They just did a bit to much at once. The gear squish is amazing. Removing gear score on HR and 25-124 bracket in normals, also is amazing. SDF also said he's trying to bring all classes up to the druids level rather than just nerfing everything. I think that's why barb got buffed plus how OP range damage is. Idk why the nerfed HP across the bored. That is dumb as hell. Range damage is a huge problem. I think fighters need drop bows and crossbows. Maybe allow the hand crossbow. Same for bard. IF you want that mega range damage go play a range class. I don't understand why these classes need mega range damage and melee damage. The ppl complain about gear stats on legendry's is sad. Sure they could add a few new stats that effect pve only but I don't want to see gear checking anymore in pvp. Then it just turns into who can sink in more hours.
I fully understand what they were shooting for, I just think making Barbarians fast glass cannon 1 shotters (again) isn't the way to go about it. I have NO IDEA why they've never retouched barbarian heavy armor to be more usable.
@@Shinshinvariety Yeah barb is one of the few classes that just had zero range damage. If he's not fast he's just going to die while trying to push into a room. Even then it just feels like gambling. Again I think this circles back to the fundamental issue being too heavy on range damage. They could dial back the barb if he wasn't getting absolutely turned into a pincushion by almost every team he encounters.
the unique rondel vs normal rondel dagger comparison is kinda bad, that weapon would be great on a wizard/druid, just cause you dont get the rolls you want doesnt make it bad, its just bad for you. 17:41 that was a headshot. 28:40 two hits landed, both were headshots. i wouldnt be surprised if the changes were made to see newer player feedback, since they seem to do this not too long after getting a surge of players.
@@propiranna the memory cap is pointless because no classes that use the dagger need it and the 2 mag power is 2% more damage. So you get an incredibly rare item for 2% more damage or you buy a dagger with +1 damage at max roll for 100g. It’s not a bad example you just don’t understand how the game works.
I don't really think it's a players vs devs regarding this game. I think people that play this game that aren't babies fully understand the devs like to make experimental changes and want to gather as much data as they can. They've admittedly said they aren't veteran devs. Dunno why anyone would cry about this shit when its been this way from the start.
the complaints are the data, doesnt matter if mathematically the changes are the best thing ever, if people hate it its a trash change then again judging from the video the TTK changes have been implemented and rolled back multiple times now, why do they need more data when every time they get the same reaction?
@@Squeaky-boi My point is crying/being surprised about D@D development is like joining the army and going surprised pikachu face when you find out you're going to see live combat.
@@Error-mn4el I mean asking for a week of testing even if the players hate it isn't that unreasonable for a game like this. It's about knowing what you're getting yourself into with your time investment. I think smart people get it.
![เปิดบ้าน โคตรสวย ป๋องกพล รู้จักตั้งนาน เพิ่งรู้ว่ารวย!!! l [Nickynachat]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/tmgCF_2HfYI/mqdefault.jpg)
![Pickpocketing a Golden Key [Dark and Darker Pickpocket]](/img/n.gif)
I think u forgot that main dev wanted to every class be able to 1v3.
How the feck is that going to work? 1V1 any other class maybe, but 1V3?
That doesn’t mean shit in this patch you corpret boot licker
@@theressomelovelyfilthdownh4329 yeah, this dev is trying to break the laws of physics to have his 'vision' come to light
the only way that can happen is if combat is pure RNG
@@Guts-DemonSlayer 50 Iq take, The dev is clearly stating that they want to push the game in a direction where one player could outplay 3 players (as any class) Atm id argue wizzards, barbarians, fighters and rangers have 1v3 outplay potential and whilst i dunno if its gonna be healthy for other classes to be able to do this "break the laws of physics" is a little peepee brained. Long day sorry if rude.
fun fact, SDF vision keeps changing every season previously he wanted to make gear system is like PoE gem sockets that holds stat rolls but after a whole season he come up with this update .
you don't understand, the devs are trying to steal a slice of users from Black Ops 6
its funny because ranger is even more broken than barb, ive been running around 1 tapping everything
Exactly lmao. Barb is the easy one to look at cuz of all the buffs, but ranger is insanely broken rn, they can kite forever and just 1-2 tap you
gonna be fun in a few weeks when the dungeons are empty and you are one shotting your own dick with your face
Ranger took 2/3 my fighter's full health in one shot when I was in arena earlier today. My team got mad at me immediately for it. lol
now where have i seen this balancing loop before 🤔🤔
For what it's worth, looking at this from the outside, this game looks super interesting with the high lethality. Feels similar to like an ARPG version of old school Runescape or Ultima.
The end result for this kind of design is such that you just can't place a high value on your gear. Ideally, getting a set that's "usable" doesn't take too long. In UO, my mule could spend like an hour making enough gear for a full 8 hours of PvP unless I was dying all the time. Not sure how it is in this game, but I love what the combat appears to be in the current state, not having seen it beforehand.
@RadishAcceptable tbh i like gear quality, ttk could go up but the fact that you can go into a normal dungeon with 0 risk and find bias purples people buy for over 1k feels right on for how acessable gesr should be, on the flip side that bis gear shouldn't 1 tap everything, ive died too many times as of recent to a ranger that with forceful shot just 1 taps me and pushes me away at the same time, followed by a backstep to make even more space, or by a boc warlock that's also running phantomize because spells suck when you can 1 tap and then get out for free
True artists are guided by vibes, not subservient to pointless numbers
You don't know how happy i am, reading the video title.
It's me, #1 hater after +500h playtime in 1.5 months.
Idk how you can think a low ttk is fun or a good idea. Especially in a 3 tier dungeon system where you're investing up to 45 minutes just to get 1 tapped by a longbow.
Ive never been 1 tapped by a longbow timmy wtf you talking about
@@af635 shotgun is a "1 shot" but it's really 4 shotting if ya wanna get technical.
@af635 i mean I'm sure he's talking about the shotgun that effectively 1 taps you with 5 longbow shots that you almost always land at least 2 more times than not you land 3 and the person coming at you falls over.
Ranger longbow at this time can do in the range of 65-80 to the body, you hit 2 (which you almost always do and you 1 shot 7 out of 9 classes.... if you land 3 not a single class in the game unless building pdr can survive it.... tell me how that's balanced?
The best part i know it's broken, I haven't died in 2 weeks and the only time I've even been threatened with death is a ranger vs ranger matchup, ive dropped multiple full pdr fighters by forcefully shooting into shotgun as long as you've landed like 1 shot before you get rushed you win 100% of the time, most of the time you don't even need the first shot, you just play a mini game of them walking at you until you push them away, and if at that point they full commit they die, or they try to run and I catch them, its simple, engage with me and you die... when played properly and with gear ranger is genuinely untouchable atm
fun fact they are now banning people of thier discord for using clown emote and they removed over 5k clown reations from thier discord server
They should have kept the linear base stat progression of rarities and just squished the rabdom modifiers. Squish the modifiers and make stat families which they did. The problem has been that gear is exponentially stronger. The gap between a legdndary bis and a common is so huge and when you make a full set if that its just so many times stronger that entering the dungeon with gear becomes a gamble. If you put on some good gear and happen to que with a really big fish you are just doomed. So closing the gear gap is a good thing. The problem is how they did it.
The linear base stat is what guaranteed progression between rarities. It should have stayed. The poblem is the compouneing effect of a full set of high rolls and good rolls. If they just squished the roll range to really low maximums, the power gap would shrink without completely diminishing the value of hugher rarities.
The barb buffs coupled with lowering armor rolls, armor base stat, health rolls, roll families for health, base health, is just completely out of place. Why would they ever make any major changes to any class at the same time as they are completely overhauling gear stats? And why buff barb at all? Barb was not weak.
I don't know why all the game designers feel like squishy character classes have to die quicker while ignoring tanky classes. There must be something wrong with the "game design theory" that the developers follow by the book that lead to this because i have heard it many times. I mean i am not that knowlegable in the details but it does seem the exact opposite what the playerbase wants. What is the reason? Maybe different dogmas in Asia that the developers try to cater to? Or just securing their jobs so they have to perpetually balance the game? What are your hypothesis?
they could have just nerf ranged things instead of giga buffed barbarian maybe the two hander buff is ok some more virarity on babarian perks armor pen is ok but everything else is too much same with the warlock buff armor nerfs and hp nerf i thought they could increase the hp of everyone but that is just smh else
they buffed barbarian health, damage, damage AND buffed barbarian speed too.
All this could’ve been avoided by actively using the test server which they have available to them. Why do they just refuse to use it, even making the patches less frequent to allow for testing would lead to less catastrophic results. This game has been good at all times it had longer ttk. We need the games old leadership again. Sdf is terrible. The changes are always erratic, they don’t have an actual roadmap, they don’t say anything, they just add it. one good change mixed in with utterly garbage changes. Multi classing was one of their biggest mistakes and had to be removed for example. They never learn. They should of just said “We made loot easier to get”. And that’s it, the end. You equalled the playing field. It is still incredibly important to make your gear level representative of your skill as a player. This is all the end game grind of a game like this. It just feel incredibly rewarding to keep players interested. Getting good at combat, etc should be associated with this. By default, getting access to the gear to pvp with anyone instantly should not be a thing. Low ttk is not riveting at all. It’s just unloading your entire kit, with 0 tactics, 0 mechanics. You as the iniatiator just kill them with 0 chance for rebuttal. I feel like this reminds me of Tarkov, which is something which was completely dissatisfying to play for me and ultimately something I thought Dark and Darker would not do.
there are not enough people on the test server, they wouldnt get useful data, they'd get bad data. I just isnt a viable way to test a concept.
because they sold the test server as a 50$ premium version of the game, so obviously many people didnt buy it. then, when they actually needed to use it, it's too late. could they make the test server free, increasing the player numbers on it? sure, but then they'd be screwing over the people who bought the 50$ version
dug a hole for themselves because they wanted to greed extra money
I was wondering why I was dying a lot more after the latest patch, turns out it's not totally my fault (It's a skill issue, obviously) but my hp was axed
Spend 10k gold on a kit before these updates now my kit is worthless.😢
You should talk to elite500 about it, the good old EU vlad streamer. He's SUPER into it and made a second channel to stream it even called elite5XX. He knows what they screwed up and what they didn't.
I don't think any league streamer would want to talk to hashinshin
Bar Dee Shay brother it’s Bar Deesh ( other than that good video)
did u post this in dad reddit or this video so the devs can see it and put in thw work to make it better maybe
its not that a discord full of hundreds of people spamming it is enought right ? ive never seen a discord server so chaotic as the last 2 days. Its ridiculous.
HELL YEAHH ITS HASHINSHIN VIDEO! ❤❤
Everyone running bardiche barb right now. It's frustrating
Fuck it dude make more videos like this i used to listen to your 1h++ videos talking about game balancing like its a podcast all since league days ❤ keep it up and so shall i kappa
They recreated D&D 4e and it's really funny
this game is exhausting. not sure how some of people who played in playtests 1-4 are still playing this game today
dark souls streams were top tier
return one day?
i knew it was bad and I didnt like it, but hearing it explained this way im like holy fuck lol
I don't understand how this patch changed that much from the loot quality patch. All it did was remove the need to constantly hit the auction house. You could already get legendaries for pennies. Now you just don't have to buy them.
I personally quit before last season ended bc melee combat mechanics are non existent and if I wanted to play an fpshooter extraction game, there's plenty better ones on the market.
But the game wasn't intended to have loot this poweful and available, and the game was much more fun before they started catering to people crying about how rare things were.
I called it
Balancing games the Riot way
The only logical reasoning I can find for all the constant barb buffs is, that it's openly complained about how non existent melee combat is in the game. It's all ranged meta. Barb is the closest class they have to being a working melee class. I guess they feel like if they can just figure out how to make one class viable in melee, just one, that would be a win for them. Just my guess tho.
That seems a bit weird to focus on one single melee class when Fighter exists and his gear seems to be made or broken by whatever you bring in or find in the dungeon. Cleric arguably is a melee class as even with magic, it's more healing and supporting rather then offensive (apart from it's anti undead stuff).
@commandervex1626 it's just the closest I could come up with logically. Didn't say it wasn't completely asinine. 😅
Fighter, while in a good spot, and supposedly melee, is very viable as a ranged fighter. One of the issues currently is most classes are one shottable with a windlass. If you buff their melee, without restricting their ranged, they're even more op than barb, and people would complain about either thing.
Cleric has melee, but I think is considered more of a support class, and has a designated role that it does really well already.
Again, what I originally said is the closest thing I could get to an attempt at the logic behind barbarian getting buffed over and over and over through out the game's life, even though it has always been a top performer.
It's not just existing players. I don't own this game, and not seen much to change my mind. So they aren't likely to see a rolling player base, with new players picking it up as others leave. If I'd have seen more positive progress with the game, I'd prob have picked it up to mess about with m8s. But neither I nor they have bothered. There's just way better/fun games for us to mess about in.
This game needs so much work done to it. Constantly messing with balance, and loot, is not development. That's just tweaking stats and RNG. If they carry on pretending to be working on the game, whilst hiding behind silly stat/loot changes, the game will be dead by spring.
If they had new maps, and a Halloween themed thing going on. Add a few more undead monster types, or whatever. That would be something to flesh out the game, and maybe give existing players like yourself a reason to log in. Nobody is going to look at a balance destroying patch, and think “at last I can play this game again”.
No it's actually overall a great patch. They just did a bit to much at once. The gear squish is amazing. Removing gear score on HR and 25-124 bracket in normals, also is amazing. SDF also said he's trying to bring all classes up to the druids level rather than just nerfing everything. I think that's why barb got buffed plus how OP range damage is. Idk why the nerfed HP across the bored. That is dumb as hell. Range damage is a huge problem. I think fighters need drop bows and crossbows. Maybe allow the hand crossbow. Same for bard. IF you want that mega range damage go play a range class. I don't understand why these classes need mega range damage and melee damage. The ppl complain about gear stats on legendry's is sad. Sure they could add a few new stats that effect pve only but I don't want to see gear checking anymore in pvp. Then it just turns into who can sink in more hours.
I fully understand what they were shooting for, I just think making Barbarians fast glass cannon 1 shotters (again) isn't the way to go about it. I have NO IDEA why they've never retouched barbarian heavy armor to be more usable.
@@Shinshinvariety Yeah barb is one of the few classes that just had zero range damage. If he's not fast he's just going to die while trying to push into a room. Even then it just feels like gambling. Again I think this circles back to the fundamental issue being too heavy on range damage. They could dial back the barb if he wasn't getting absolutely turned into a pincushion by almost every team he encounters.
wait hashinshin??
the unique rondel vs normal rondel dagger comparison is kinda bad, that weapon would be great on a wizard/druid, just cause you dont get the rolls you want doesnt make it bad, its just bad for you. 17:41 that was a headshot. 28:40 two hits landed, both were headshots. i wouldnt be surprised if the changes were made to see newer player feedback, since they seem to do this not too long after getting a surge of players.
@@propiranna the memory cap is pointless because no classes that use the dagger need it and the 2 mag power is 2% more damage. So you get an incredibly rare item for 2% more damage or you buy a dagger with +1 damage at max roll for 100g. It’s not a bad example you just don’t understand how the game works.
@@fbiiswatchinyou1234 bro has never been a stabby wizard and it shows
Sad to see this patch, clueless devs ruining a fun game. Haven't touched it since the last patch
I don't really think it's a players vs devs regarding this game. I think people that play this game that aren't babies fully understand the devs like to make experimental changes and want to gather as much data as they can. They've admittedly said they aren't veteran devs. Dunno why anyone would cry about this shit when its been this way from the start.
People complaining IS data. What is your point
the complaints are the data, doesnt matter if mathematically the changes are the best thing ever, if people hate it its a trash change
then again judging from the video the TTK changes have been implemented and rolled back multiple times now, why do they need more data when every time they get the same reaction?
@@Squeaky-boi My point is crying/being surprised about D@D development is like joining the army and going surprised pikachu face when you find out you're going to see live combat.
They could just wait for the season to end before making such drastic changes instead of in the middle of the season like shinshin said
@@Error-mn4el I mean asking for a week of testing even if the players hate it isn't that unreasonable for a game like this. It's about knowing what you're getting yourself into with your time investment. I think smart people get it.