IMO 2024 Problem 6 - the *FINAL BOSS* is always tough! Functional equation leaves few survivors

แชร์
ฝัง
  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ต.ค. 2024
  • #mathematics #olympiad #math
    International Mathematical Olympiad (IMO) 2024 Day 2
    Solutions and discussion of problem 6
    65th International Mathematical Olympiad Bath UK
    Problem 6 - Algebra / Functional equation

ความคิดเห็น • 76

  • @dedekindcuts3589
    @dedekindcuts3589  2 หลายเดือนก่อน +27

    That's a wrap! Thanks for tuning in to the IMO 2024 problems. Let me know what you think of this year's IMO problems!

  • @warmpianist
    @warmpianist 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +31

    I checked other solutions in AOPS and they did use the fact that f: Q->Q (to prove that the function is Cauchy) while yours did not at all. If this were changed to R I think this deserves to be the hardest functional equation ever appeared on IMO 😭

    • @dedekindcuts3589
      @dedekindcuts3589  2 หลายเดือนก่อน +29

      Very good point, I totally didnt realise that this solution doesnt need to use the f:Q->Q information and even works for f:R->R

  • @_Miha_7
    @_Miha_7 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +12

    Thank you for your work! There is very little content like this on TH-cam.

  • @dedekindcuts3589
    @dedekindcuts3589  2 หลายเดือนก่อน +25

    Also a *huge* disclaimer that coming up with the example that works (at the end) is non-trivial. If anyone can share some motivation for others to learn, that would be helpful!

    • @zmaj12321
      @zmaj12321 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Yeah I would love to hear about motivation! When I tried it, it seemed like magic that it satisfied all the properties.

    • @quite_unknown_1
      @quite_unknown_1 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Maybe some motivation: in P1 of this year, I realized that floor(x) + floor(-x) was 0 if x is integer and -1 if not, so maybe that is why one starts trying with the floor function on P6

    • @andychou1069
      @andychou1069 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Hint:If {x}-{y}>0, use the front; otherwise use the latter

    • @snek3205
      @snek3205 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      You can motivate the construction as follows. It's natural to start by proving that x + f(x) is a fixed point, so you might like to follow up by investigating the set of fixed points. If a and b are fixed points, then plug in a and b to get that f(a+b) = a+b, so a+b is a fixed point. If a is a fixed point, then plug in a and -a to get that f(a + f(-a)) = 0 or a + f(-a) = f(0), in either case -a is a fixed point. So the fixed points form a group.
      From here you might guess that the set of fixed points is the set of integers, and then try to come up with something. Just thinking about what f will do to the interval (0, 1), you know it has to sort of reflect that interval (because f(x) + x has to be an integer). So maybe you try something like f(x) = -x on the interval, but you know that f(n) = n so maybe you want your function to be something that reflects the interval [n, n+1) about n for any n. (And this becomes floor(x) - {x} as was in the video.)
      I think it's quite hard to motivate the construction if you don't know that the fixed points form a group - you can prove more stuff about the fixed points to help though (for example you can actually prove that f(x+a) = f(x)+a for any fixed point a, in the above I effectively just guessed that that was true. And of course you don't need to prove this to solve the problem)

    • @jucom756
      @jucom756 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      You can prove the set of r such that f(r)+f(-r)=0 is a group, and then that every orbit in Q has the same value for f(r)+f(-r) (and that it is consistent within the orbits too ofcourse). From there one might decide to pick a subgroup of Q and try, so for example , and from there we take the easiest route: we use f(x)=x on and then use that f(x)+x is a set point for the rest of Q and that f is bijective to choose these set points as 2*floor x, and then we check if it works.

  • @davidebic
    @davidebic 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    I think whoever came up with the example was hunting for a function that had a discontinuity in x and -x such that f(-x)=/=f(x) for some x, but f(x)=f(-x) for some other x.

  • @rlaqhtp
    @rlaqhtp 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

    22:43 most astonishing part of the solution. i have no idea of how to find out that actual example

    • @dedekindcuts3589
      @dedekindcuts3589  2 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      Agree. Finding the example is also hard. Imagine proving all the way till here and you are so close to that 7 marks but yet so far

  • @plusalisio7321
    @plusalisio7321 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    Hi, you have competed in IMO as a contestant, right? It would be great if you could share your experiences and what you have learned, this will help many aspiring people who want to come to IMO, I think.

    • @plusalisio7321
      @plusalisio7321 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      You can make a video about that, but ofc, this is just my opinion, feel free to do whatever.

    • @dedekindcuts3589
      @dedekindcuts3589  2 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      It's a great suggestion!

    • @rendoesmath
      @rendoesmath 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      ​@@dedekindcuts3589Down for it

  • @alqwrvx
    @alqwrvx 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    You explained the problem really well, and I learned a lot from this video via the techniques you used along with your thought process. Thank you for posting this! ❤

  • @EvanTseng-tg4fg
    @EvanTseng-tg4fg 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    Note that the fixed point of f forms a subgroup of Q

    • @hichamalhasan6539
      @hichamalhasan6539 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      And that f(r) +f(-r) is in that sub-group.

  • @narayansareekuthir5330
    @narayansareekuthir5330 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    Please make long lectures of number theory cover each theory and nice problems please 🙏🏻

  • @MonkeyDLuffy-gd6se
    @MonkeyDLuffy-gd6se 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Could you recommend some good problem solving books that would help with viewing problems differently than usual

    • @dedekindcuts3589
      @dedekindcuts3589  2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      The Art and Craft of Problem Solving by Paul Zeitz is great!

  • @jwy4264
    @jwy4264 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Great explanation!

  • @Janetai240
    @Janetai240 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Is this posted by Singaporean?

  • @shrodingerscat7099
    @shrodingerscat7099 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    hi i watch ur videos a lot can u recommend me books that u personally used while u were preparing for imo ? please

    • @dedekindcuts3589
      @dedekindcuts3589  2 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      It's good to start with The Art and Craft of Problem Solving by Paul Zeitz. Personally I learned number theory from Elementary Number Theory by David Burton and geometry from Notes on Euclidean Geometry by Kiran Kedlaya

  • @justmath1788
    @justmath1788 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Perfect

  • @pequenoduende7891
    @pequenoduende7891 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Once you find that f must be biyective and that f(0)=0.
    Why can't you say that
    f(f(x))=f(f(x)+0)=x+f(0)=x and so f=f^(-1)?

    • @warmpianist
      @warmpianist 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      @@pequenoduende7891 it is an "or" statement, so "f(f(x)+0)=x+f(0) or f(x+f(0)) = f(x)+0" is a true statement, and the right one leads to f(x)=f(x) which is always true, so we don't know at all if the left one is true

    • @pequenoduende7891
      @pequenoduende7891 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      Ohh, ok, thx! I didn't understand the problem correctly sry, but now I do

  • @replicaacliper
    @replicaacliper 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    how in the hell would you think of that example for c=2

    • @dedekindcuts3589
      @dedekindcuts3589  2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      I feel you. Same sentiments

  • @satyam-isical
    @satyam-isical 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    After 2017, here comes a worthy opponent😅

    • @dedekindcuts3589
      @dedekindcuts3589  2 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Still 2.5 times more full score :p

  • @test-ve6wg
    @test-ve6wg 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    Good explanation

  • @yinxiaowang4067
    @yinxiaowang4067 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Hello brother, I love olympiad styled math, but when facing college 's fixed dull curriculum and exam, I find myslef not able to freely explore math anymore, pls share how would u deal with it? thx u so much

    • @dedekindcuts3589
      @dedekindcuts3589  2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      After some foundation classes, you should be able to explore classes and subareas that interest you more! Also eventually you will be doing research which will be more open-ended. You should talk to your college professors - one of them might give you some research problem to work on!

    • @yinxiaowang4067
      @yinxiaowang4067 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@dedekindcuts3589 Thank you so much for your reply!

  • @mrpringles4479
    @mrpringles4479 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

    Imo series has come to an end so what's next?🙂 putnam?

    • @dedekindcuts3589
      @dedekindcuts3589  2 หลายเดือนก่อน +7

      Usually I cover the first few problems of Putnam! There's some Putnam 2022 and 2023 videos on this channel that you can check out! (Unfortunately this year I have some other commitments during Putnam period so it will be 1-2 weeks later)

    • @mrpringles4479
      @mrpringles4479 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      I was just asking I am sure you'll come up with something amazing! 🙌

    • @alexanderliubimov1336
      @alexanderliubimov1336 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@dedekindcuts3589The upcoming IMC(International mathematics competition for undergraduate students) may have some interesting problems :)

    • @Aramil4
      @Aramil4 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@dedekindcuts3589 why only the first few problems?

  • @zmaj12321
    @zmaj12321 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    I didn't take the exam, so take my opinion with a grain of salt. But P3 seems a lot more mind-bending than P6! I only heard about P5 being a troll question, but did people also get tricked by this low answer?

    • @dedekindcuts3589
      @dedekindcuts3589  2 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      Part of the difficulty is firstly people who get trolled by P5 already lost a lot of precious time and cannot really have enough time to work on P6. I fully agree with you that P3 is a lot more abstract and difficult to wrap your head around than P6 which is more about a very long series of exploring a web of equations - though without knowing that you are on the right path a priori, the web of equations can be overwhelming. We'll know when we see the stats!

  • @startonix3613
    @startonix3613 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    To show that there exists an integer \( c \) such that for any aquaesulian function \( f \), there are at most \( c \) different rational numbers of the form \( f(r) + f(-r) \) for some rational number \( r \), and to find the smallest possible value of \( c \), let's first analyze the properties and constraints provided by the definition of an aquaesulian function.
    Given:
    \[ f: \mathbb{Q} \to \mathbb{Q} \]
    is an aquaesulian function if for every \( x, y \in \mathbb{Q} \):
    \[ f(x+f(y)) = f(x) + y \quad \text{or} \quad f(f(x)+y) = x + f(y). \]
    ### Step-by-Step Analysis
    1. **Key Property Usage**:
    Consider the first property \( f(x + f(y)) = f(x) + y \). Set \( x = 0 \):
    \[ f(f(y)) = f(0) + y \]
    This equation implies that \( f(f(y)) = y + f(0) \).
    2. **Second Property Analysis**:
    Now consider the second property \( f(f(x) + y) = x + f(y) \). Set \( y = 0 \):
    \[ f(f(x)) = x + f(0) \]
    3. **Equating Both Properties**:
    From the above two equations, we get:
    \[ f(f(y)) = y + f(0) \quad \text{and} \quad f(f(x)) = x + f(0) \]
    Thus:
    \[ f(f(r)) = r + f(0) \]
    for any rational number \( r \).
    4. **Key Observation for \( f(r) + f(-r) \)**:
    Let \( y = -r \):
    \[ f(f(r) - r) = r - r + f(0) = f(0) \]
    Thus:
    \[ f(f(r) - r) = f(0) \]
    5. **Identifying \( f(r) + f(-r) \)**:
    Consider the expression \( f(r) + f(-r) \):
    \[ f(f(r) + (-r)) = f(0) = f(f(-r) + r) \]
    Using the definition of an aquaesulian function, observe:
    \[ f(f(r) + (-r)) = r + f(-r) \]
    Therefore:
    \[ r + f(-r) = f(0) \]
    Solving this for \( f(-r) \):
    \[ f(-r) = f(0) - r \]
    Hence:
    \[ f(r) + f(-r) = f(r) + (f(0) - r) = f(r) + f(0) - r \]
    6. **Conclusion**:
    Since \( f(r) \) can be any rational number depending on the specific function, observe that:
    \[ f(r) + f(-r) = f(r) + f(0) - r \]
    The number of different values this can take depends on \( f(0) \).
    Since \( f(0) \) is fixed for any specific function \( f \) and \( f(r) \) and \( r \) can vary over all rational numbers, the number of different values of \( f(r) + f(-r) \) will be influenced by the variability introduced by \( r \) and the fixed \( f(0) \).
    ### Finding \( c \):
    Considering the observations:
    - \( f(r) + f(-r) = f(r) + f(0) - r \)
    - Since \( f(r) \) maps rational numbers to rational numbers,
    - The distinct values \( f(r) + f(-r) \) form a finite set.
    Conclusively, the values of \( f(r) + f(-r) \) depend only on the structure and form of \( f \) as defined, and thus:
    The smallest possible value of \( c \) such that there are at most \( c \) different rational numbers of the form \( f(r) + f(-r) \) for some rational number \( r \) is:
    \[ c = 1 \]
    This follows because the expression \( f(r) + f(-r) = f(r) + f(0) - r \) can be controlled by the constraints of \( f \) over \( \mathbb{Q} \).

  • @professorluisfarias3582
    @professorluisfarias3582 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    Perfeito!

  • @aayush554
    @aayush554 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    can you post google gemini proof.

  • @lqdathydra
    @lqdathydra 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    Maybe its the hardest IMO i have ever seen.

    • @dedekindcuts3589
      @dedekindcuts3589  2 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      Can't beat 2017 (: Highest score that year is a 35 and P3 that year had only 2 solves

    • @KianAbolghasemi
      @KianAbolghasemi 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      2021 also had a killer p2

  • @aayush554
    @aayush554 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    why is the explanation easy but the problem difficult?

    • @lukevideckis2260
      @lukevideckis2260 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      because P probably != NP

    • @dedekindcuts3589
      @dedekindcuts3589  2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Good analogy. Easier to understand a solution than to come up with it

  • @BigAsciiHappyStar
    @BigAsciiHappyStar 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    FUN FACT: The city of Bath should be well known to cryptic crossword addicts. For instance a valid clue would be “Foreign capital in hte old city (4)” with the answer BAHT 😊

  • @MoyGomez-rp3ks
    @MoyGomez-rp3ks 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    you think that a person has taken a perfect exam?

    • @justmath.1533
      @justmath.1533 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      a chinese dude goT a perfect score

    • @user-qk8wg6cj4kkaa
      @user-qk8wg6cj4kkaa 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@justmath.1533where can I see the results

    • @Bhakti_hai_shakti_hai
      @Bhakti_hai_shakti_hai 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Haojia Shi

    • @MoyGomez-rp3ks
      @MoyGomez-rp3ks 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      And how did the United States fare?

    • @Bhakti_hai_shakti_hai
      @Bhakti_hai_shakti_hai 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      ​@@MoyGomez-rp3ks
      I believe they will excel at this year's IMO.

  • @darkmatter9583
    @darkmatter9583 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    hi is there any way to connect with you ,line,telegram, discord,email, whatsapp, i want to compile a list of awesome maths papers and books,competitons for github, and get your level, as a mentor for advice and be better please thanks 🙏🙏🙏

    • @darkmatter9583
      @darkmatter9583 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      can you teach me or guide me, if is too expensive classes just giving me advices and asking you questions