Hi Tom, thanks for your videos & enthusiasm, I’m sure there are plenty more of us who also appreciate you. My ASHP (Octopus £2.5k) keeps our 4bed semi very comfortable, endless hot water 24/7. Winter months we are paying 50-70% what the gas/electric bills were previously. But on shoulder seasons it plummets, any solar (Summer) & it’s free, or very cheap with solar battery using overnight 7p KW instead of 24p (Octopus Intelligent go tariff, excellent). The dog got me up in the early hours but though 0 degrees outside I was comfortable in undies, even at open back door. Because house is so warm generally, maybe even too warm at night. Our double glazing is over 20years old, ok but could be better. We are a radiator short in kitchen/diner (Octopus survey) but any cooking activity & it’s too warm. I have adjusted Daikon HP settings, curve & temp increase for colder weather, as Summer settings not keeping house as warm in sustained minus temperatures. Our house is far from a perfect ASHP dwelling, but it’s still way better than with gas. I didn’t think at first we were suitable (unconsciously believed FUD) but it’s been great. Like you, I was happy to pay same bills but exchange poisonous/explosive gas hazards for non-carbon healthier alternative. 1st principles thinking, adding solar/battery just improves in ways you cannot with fuel options. And grid continues to get greener/renewable each year, phasing out fossils it will get cheaper too. Pity our electric prices still tied to gas/oil. It will inevitably change, and get better!
Hello Tom. I have no Gas since 2012. HT Heatpump Inductioncooking Solar Panels. I have Kitchen Boiler 125 euro and bathroom boiler 175. Hornbach DIY. Heating and warm water separated. I use 5000 kWh a year. And produce 5000 kWh a year. Energybill zero for 13 years now. Works better than Gas. I let a House same System. Rooftop Solar Inductioncooking Heatpump LG Therma V. Cost 3575. Subsidie was 3075. Google Aircoplaza Zwolle for prices in Nederland. Energybill in 2012 was 3000 a year. So with 2 houses No Gas saves me 6000 euro a year. Thats a Chunk of money every year. Thank you for this video.❤👍🙂🌹
Hi Tom Thanks for that, very interesting. We had heat pump installed in October 24 and suspect our figures wont be far off yours. We changed from a Tracker tariff to Cosy. Our electricity costs are slightly lower averaging out at around 14 pence as we had 10kw of batteries installed so we find charging during the Cosy periods just about covers our needs although we could have done with slightly more battery capacity. We also had solar installed which I think will pay us back as the lights get lighter. We have a 7kw pump, ors is a 1960s 4 bed semi and we live further South near Cambridge.
Your video clearly explains the operating economy of your heat pump. However, quite obviously, there is no financial insentive to change a working system - there are no savings to offset the price of a new heat pump. In the spirit of “full disclosure”, I suggest a video on the alternatives: replacement of an old gas system versus a new heat pump. Maybe the business case requires assumptions on how prices may develop to break even ? Maybe other external factors, such as closure of gas for heating, play a role ?
Happy New Year Tom! I appreciate how data filled your videos are :) I have a question, what flow temperature are you running in your property? A bit of feedback, your talk to camera shot could do with some work to avoid it looking like the lense is oily with harsh exposure, the rest of the video was not affected by this, you may need to update the camera you use, im not sure though.
We need not pretend that running a HSP is cheap, it’s not. I spend a fortune in winter on electricity(£336 last bill and I’m with Octopus Intelligent Go). However, my 5 bed farmhouse in North Yorkshire is warm 24/7 and have we endless hot water. Before my HSP was installed, I paid a fortune on heating oil, but the house was only warm for 6 hours a day. Summer bills are about £100 per month and I get about £30 pm on the sell back for 6 months of the year. Overall I’m very happy. Worth mentioning I run a 20k miles per year EV on that electricity usage.
Rather than the heat pump being expensive to run, your house is expensive to heat. You'll need to internally insulate the walls with a breathable insulation like wood fibre or cork for example if you want to reduce the heat loss.
Hi Robin, yes I think that could be true, although it would depend on expected mileage and current heat loss of your home. A simple rule of thumb would be every kWh of gas you use has similar emissions to every mile you drive in an average fossil fuel vehicle ~200g each. So if you drive 20,000 miles a year, that would be a bigger priority for switching to an EV than a home that used 8000 kWh of gas. We are looking at a second hand EV at the moment, that is much more reasonable price than a new car. Tom
Always interesting to see how others do on agile, recently it's not been so good so we've been averaging 17/18pkwh so thinking of jumping to cosy. Especially since the agile arranging charge is going up from 55p to the 70p cap on Feb 16th which is what's been putting me off going to cosy anyway
Always amazes me how much gas people use, my predicted usage from Octopus is 8300kWh of gas - 8 year old combi boiler, 4 bed (2001 build)detached house . Just a standard Wimpey house. Not exactly a warm area either - Wales. House is inhabited 24hrs a day. I just use the timer for 3 heating periods and minimum temperatures in between. If anyone feels cold we turn up the thermostat.
I live in a similar property 3 bed detached I run my Combi at 50-55 degrees for most cold days (2 degrees) which costs (according to my smart meter) about £2.60 per day so for Nov - April it costs £312 in fuel cost. For days when I'm out its off. Adjust the flow temp to suit the outside temp and the boiler works in full condensing mode
Hi both - I guess a point to remember is my home was built in the 1880s, so could be a bit leakier than a 2001 build! Richard, altering your flow temperature is great. The heat pump users weather compensation controls to do this automatically. Thanks Tom
@@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle Weather compensation systems are all very well but my trusty gas boiler can be turned up to 70 to heat a cold house very quickly. Then I turn it back to 50 when house warmed in about an hour!! Old fashioned I suppose but very efficient! Cheers
Hi Tom, It's the cynic back again😀. I like your videos coz you are up front in the reason you have a heat pump. You've got it to save on the Co2 and Nox emissions. Which you have considerably. Any financial savings seem like a bonus to you👍 I always have problems with these backwards calculations and the 85/90% efficiency of boilers etc. Your energy usage 14791 Kwh in one of the warmest years on record, have I got this wrong? But it seems your usage has gone up by nearly 3000Kwh over the year you compared with in 2020 with the gas boiler. Most people have tried to cut there energy usage, I've cut mine by at least 15% but yours has gone up considerably. The heat pump is using less energy than a gas boiler, but it seems that you now need the kWh output of the average large detached 4 bedroomed property for your heating and hot water. Shouldn't you work the prices out on the known fig of 12000kwh for the gas boiler used in 2020 which was a colder year, and is also the average use of a 3 bedroomed property. because you wouldn't of used 15780 Kwh of gas! Because that would be approx a 30% rise in your energy usage!
Hi Jezza - I guess this is the wonder of a heat pump and its efficiency. Although we delivered more heat, we used less energy. Ie ~12,000kWh gas to ~4200kWh of electricity. The total energy we delivered may have increased but ~10,000 kWh of this energy was for ‘free’ from the air. This means we have decreased our energy consumption by 2/3rds, the extra we have used is recycled heat locally as it leaks from our home. If our target is reducing energy consumption then heat pumps would be a major step. I hope this makes sense? Tom
@@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle thanks for the reply👍I get that the heat pump produces more energy than it consumes. Im with you on the technology and saving Co2 etc, but surely, with figs you've produced, your energy consumption has gone up by over 30% on the 2020 figs? Since Youve had the heat pump your heating and hot water energy consumption has gone from 12,000kwh using gas to 14,790kwh with the heat pump? You have then said you would of used 15780kwh of gas! Sorry Tom, am I missing something? It doesn't add up. If in 2020 you needed 12,000 kWh, but, why do you now need 15780kw?
I guess the change to note is that we are now much more comfortable. We are using more heat, keeping the house at a more comfortable temperature. And the comfort came as a consequence of me trying to improve efficiency. Ie running for longer hours at lower radiator temperatures. So we now deliver more heat than we did in our first year with the system, but use a similar amount of electricity. I take your point that the house has used more heat this year. But the key point is that it has used less energy Thanks for getting into the detail! Tom
@@jezzaandrews1940 you're right. As Tom was saying in the video he didn't want to heat his home fully with gas, as he was feeling guilty about it causing emissions. He eluded to disagreements about what temp to keep the house at etc in the family. So because he's now happy using a lower polluting method of heating, he's happy to keep the house warmer. At least that's my interpretation of the situation. I do the same. I under heat my house because I don't want to be using "Putin juice" or "Saudi juice" But with a heat pump I wouldn't care.and probably use more delivered heat energy.
You have to use the 3Kw ELECTRIC HEATER every week to kill the bugs as the heat pump won’t go that hot. Needs 65c for a couple of hours a week. Remember to factor that into your savings!!
@@Cyberbobxxxx the valiant ashp can reach 70c so it does a legionella cycle without difficulty and no back up, so doesn’t need an immersion heater to do this.
My heatpump runs a legionella cycle weekly. The heat pump factors that in. I have R32 refrigerant which does reach around 58 degrees before the immersion cuts in. Legionella only needs 60 degrees for 3 minutes. The immersion is only heating the last 2 degrees which is costing around 15p a week.
@Cyberbobxxxx No it doesn't. As long as the water is not stagnant (I.e. tank being replenished regularly) then it doesn't matter what temperature the water is at.
@@Cyberbobxxxx No, you don't 😂 My hot water cylinder has a 1.8kW immersion heater, not a 3kW one, and that's sufficient to top up temperatures above 55C if needed. I usually set my cylinder to 52C, which is above the Swedish regulation minimum of 50C for heat pump systems. While 52C takes longer to kill Legionella compared to higher temperatures, I could use an anti-legionella cycle (ALC) to heat it to 60°C+ with the immersion if needed. A 3kW heater is unnecessary for this!
I think it’s unfair on heat pump when we don’t consider like for like usage (lifestyle) with gas boiler. I mean, cost and co2 comparison should be 24/7 for both if heat pump is used full time (24/7).
I ran my gas boiler at 30 ish flow temperature 24/7 and it cost me about £4 a day ish and my house was really warm. My heat pump running 24/7 on octopus intelligent cost me about £3 a day.
@@mackay250 I think that is the key, low flow temperature. I was a victim and also guilty of using my boiler at very high temp hence only operated it 10hr/day. I learnt a lot when researching on heat pump that we can potentially save money and have cosy home with boilers, only factor left to tackle would be co2.
Yeah a low flow temperature saves money and uses less co2. Makes your house very warm all day too. I found when it was -2 outside I needed 35c flow. Everyday I would adjust it to the weather forecast. Worked very well. Everyone should do it.
@@mackay250 Do new boilers come with weather compensation system like heat pumps have so that you don't have to adjust flow temp daily? Just asking for anyone reading is thinking of installing a new boiler instead of heat pump.
@@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle That doeswn't explain how the heat is measured, just what measures it. What exactly is it mearuring, and please don't say temperature.
@@iareid8255they often have an ultrasonic monitor for flow measurement through the pipes. So for a given pipe size, the ultrasound can measure how fast the volume is moving and therefore how much heat is travelling in it. Compare it vs the return temp and that's the heat delivered.
@@iareid8255 A heat meter measure the flow rate of the water leaving the heat pump, and the temperature difference between the flow and return pipes. The heat capacity of water is known, so it can do some simple maths to calculate the heat output. There's a lot more detail on line, but most home owners don't need to know the details, just like they don't need to understand all the complexity going on in an electricity meter.
Didn’t think you would comment on that documentary as it would upset your narrative, heat pumps work and have never said they didn’t, you might save a little on electricity and carbon but 99% of people just want cheep gas and electricity and a cheep combi boiler for the winter time. Carbon dioxide emissions are with us like it or not and afew heat pumps won’t make a bit of difference. Also not many people have the money or the house for it. Keep on with your videos on how great it’s going and how much carbon and money you save. But it’s not going to. I will attach these documentaries to every video you post to balance things out.
Thanks Bob, I was at work all day Friday and away this weekend so not had a chance to watch your documentary. I will watch and thoroughly debunk it when I get a chance. I don’t want a few heat pumps, I want 25 million to replace gas boilers in the UK Thanks again for commenting, more comments on my videos means that TH-cam will push the videos to more people!
Hi Bob, watched the documentary, and have a few thoughts in response. Firstly, the documentary is targeted at the low carbon economy but then goes on to discuss the problems of mining, our existing extractivist economy and the use of material broadly. I would respond with this graph - www.energy-transitions.org/bitesize/its-in-the-charts-materials-needed-to-deliver-the-energy-transition/#:~:text=Between%202022%E2%80%932050%2C%20the%20energy,of%20steel%2C%20copper%20and%20aluminium. - i.e. the amount of coal we currently mine each year is more material than we would need in the total energy transition. So if you have some problems with the impact of mining, you would want to transition away from the existing economy. Once we have transitioned to a low carbon future, our impact on the environment will reduce substantially. And the environmental disaster of the fossil fuel industry will no longer be required. 2nd, as a chartered environmentalist, I work to reduce environmental impact at my workplace and in my community, I am thoroughly aware of the impact of mining in the UK, and around the world. As the documentary ends, we need to move away from the growth focussed economy - more more more, towards a circular economy, possibly built on principles around 'doughnut economics' popularised by Economist Kate Raworth. This is exactly what we need to do, moving away from fossil fuels would make this much easier as we would need to mine significantly less material than our current system. One thing to note, is that from a primary energy point of view (one metric we could use to understand how much material we use) moving away from thermal energy plants (i.e. gas power stations), from internal combustion engines and from gas boilers, towards renewable energy generation, electric vehicles and heat pumps would use significantly less energy as low carbon technology does not have the losses that thermal energy plants do. I would encourage you to watch the documentary 'Big Oil Vs the World' - it is in 3 parts so asking a bit more of you than you did of me... 1st part here th-cam.com/video/I32R6Yx9PTI/w-d-xo.html You may not 'believe' in climate change, but if you care about mining and environmental impact, then moving away from our business as usual is key to minimising that impact. All the best Tom
That video is just propaganda for the fossil fuel industry, I suggest people either don't bother watching it, or watch it very critically. Hint, they say a lot of things that either aren't true, or heavily exaggerated, while ignoring the huge problems of using fossil fuels.
To many of these nut zero truth videos done by facts , figures and by scientists. You will die if you didn’t have fossil fuels as most things are made from oil!!! So you will have to live in a cave and wear animal skins and walk everywhere. There is no alternative so it’s with us like it or not and can’t be ignored like all these eco warriors trying to get us all an expensive heat pump , EV and solar panels!!! They are still having all the home comforts and oh don’t forget drugs!! All made from oil. So Sorry to tell the hole truth.
@@MentalLentil-ev9jr To many of these nut zero truth videos done with facts , figures and by scientists. You will die if you didn’t have fossil fuels as most things are made from oil!!! So you will have to live in a cave and wear animal skins and walk everywhere. There is no alternative so it’s with us like it or not and can’t be ignored like all these eco warriors trying to get us all an expensive heat pump , EV and solar panels!!! They are still having all the home comforts and oh don’t forget drugs!! All made from oil. So Sorry to tell the hole truth.
Hi Bob, watched the documentary, and have a few thoughts in response. Firstly, the documentary is targeted at the low carbon economy but then goes on to discuss the problems of mining, our existing extractivist economy and the use of material broadly. I would respond with this graph - www.energy-transitions.org/bitesize/its-in-the-charts-materials-needed-to-deliver-the-energy-transition/#:~:text=Between%202022%E2%80%932050%2C%20the%20energy,of%20steel%2C%20copper%20and%20aluminium. - i.e. the amount of coal we currently mine each year is more material than we would need in the total energy transition. So if you have some problems with the impact of mining, you would want to transition away from the existing economy. Once we have transitioned to a low carbon future, our impact on the environment will reduce substantially. And the environmental disaster of the fossil fuel industry will no longer be required. 2nd, as a chartered environmentalist, I work to reduce environmental impact at my workplace and in my community, I am thoroughly aware of the impact of mining in the UK, and around the world. As the documentary ends, we need to move away from the growth focussed economy - more more more, towards a circular economy, possibly built on principles around 'doughnut economics' popularised by Economist Kate Raworth. This is exactly what we need to do, moving away from fossil fuels would make this much easier as we would need to mine significantly less material than our current system. One thing to note, is that from a primary energy point of view (one metric we could use to understand how much material we use) moving away from thermal energy plants (i.e. gas power stations), from internal combustion engines and from gas boilers, towards renewable energy generation, electric vehicles and heat pumps would use significantly less energy as low carbon technology does not have the losses that thermal energy plants do. I would encourage you to watch the documentary 'Big Oil Vs the World' - it is in 3 parts so asking a bit more of you than you did of me... 1st part here th-cam.com/video/I32R6Yx9PTI/w-d-xo.html You may not 'believe' in climate change, but if you care about mining and environmental impact, then moving away from our business as usual is key to minimising that impact. All the best Tom
I install central heating using gas boilers. Modern boiler and customers who use the temperature controls can heat a house for about £3.00 per day in winter and 0 in summer so the small savings you show for using heat pump are negligible when compared with a possible £15000 installation cost. And for what? Climate has been changing for 3 billion years
Hi Richard - great that you install heating systems, £3 per day obviously would vary depending on the size of house, weather, internal temperature etc. A gas boiler keeping my house comfortable was not £3 per day. Heat pumps have a £7500 grant to help support the installation. Many will cost the customer similar to a gas boiler. I would encourage you to look again at heat pumps, we need your skills and experience if we are going to reduce reliance on gas. And your last point about climate - absolutely it has been changing, but since humans have existed, it is unlikely to have changed this rapidly. There is risk of catastrophe, surely we should do whatever we can to minimise that risk? (As well as reduce pollutants like NOx which damages are health, reduce reliance on dodgy regimes around the world, and reduce risk of gas price volatility) Thanks Tom
@@BenIsInSweden Dishwasher for washing up , electric shower for shower and sink, air fryer to cook, kettle for tea and coffee.. Total electric per day about 80pence (UK)
@@richardlewis5316 so not a benefit of a gas boiler then. Heat pump would cut the cost of the hot water used for shower and sink by about 1/3rd. And the cost you talk of for a heat pump "£15,000" isn't for the heat pump. most of that is for switching to low temperature heating, which would benefit gas boilers as well. £3 per day is about 47kWh at current price cap. Multiplied by 90 is about 4230kWh, typical annual gas consumption of a UK home is over double that. Unless things have changed in the UK and winter now lasts 6 months 🤷
48 degree hot water you more likely to have legionnaires disease bacteria you need hot water at 65 degree to kill bacteria. Your heatpump need to be set higher for your hotwater tank,
Hi Stephen - very true, although HSE guidance is to store above 60° not 65°. Most heat pump systems have a pasteurisation setting that will lift water above 60 once a week to minimise legionella risk. Tom
It is 65c and has to be that temperature constantly. This is the major flaw with heat pumps. You have to run an electric heater to boost. Otherwise legionella can occur in between .
@@Cyberbobxxxx www.hse.gov.uk/legionnaires/hot-and-cold.htm What do you mean by electric boost? All heat pumps are electric! The system does not use an immersion coil to heat above 60
if read it it’s has to reach the tap at the correct temp. That’s why it’s at least 65c . How hot is your water out of the tap? How hot is your pump heating the cylinder? Not 65c . It will have a 3kw heater in the cylinder.
Hi Tom, thanks for your videos & enthusiasm, I’m sure there are plenty more of us who also appreciate you. My ASHP (Octopus £2.5k) keeps our 4bed semi very comfortable, endless hot water 24/7. Winter months we are paying 50-70% what the gas/electric bills were previously. But on shoulder seasons it plummets, any solar (Summer) & it’s free, or very cheap with solar battery using overnight 7p KW instead of 24p (Octopus Intelligent go tariff, excellent). The dog got me up in the early hours but though 0 degrees outside I was comfortable in undies, even at open back door. Because house is so warm generally, maybe even too warm at night. Our double glazing is over 20years old, ok but could be better. We are a radiator short in kitchen/diner (Octopus survey) but any cooking activity & it’s too warm. I have adjusted Daikon HP settings, curve & temp increase for colder weather, as Summer settings not keeping house as warm in sustained minus temperatures. Our house is far from a perfect ASHP dwelling, but it’s still way better than with gas. I didn’t think at first we were suitable (unconsciously believed FUD) but it’s been great. Like you, I was happy to pay same bills but exchange poisonous/explosive gas hazards for non-carbon healthier alternative. 1st principles thinking, adding solar/battery just improves in ways you cannot with fuel options. And grid continues to get greener/renewable each year, phasing out fossils it will get cheaper too. Pity our electric prices still tied to gas/oil. It will inevitably change, and get better!
Hello Tom. I have no Gas since 2012. HT Heatpump Inductioncooking Solar Panels. I have Kitchen Boiler 125 euro and bathroom boiler 175. Hornbach DIY. Heating and warm water separated. I use 5000 kWh a year. And produce 5000 kWh a year. Energybill zero for 13 years now. Works better than Gas. I let a House same System. Rooftop Solar Inductioncooking Heatpump LG Therma V. Cost 3575. Subsidie was 3075. Google Aircoplaza Zwolle for prices in Nederland. Energybill in 2012 was 3000 a year. So with 2 houses No Gas saves me 6000 euro a year. Thats a Chunk of money every year. Thank you for this video.❤👍🙂🌹
Hi Tom
Thanks for that, very interesting. We had heat pump installed in October 24 and suspect our figures wont be far off yours. We changed from a Tracker tariff to Cosy. Our electricity costs are slightly lower averaging out at around 14 pence as we had 10kw of batteries installed so we find charging during the Cosy periods just about covers our needs although we could have done with slightly more battery capacity. We also had solar installed which I think will pay us back as the lights get lighter. We have a 7kw pump, ors is a 1960s 4 bed semi and we live further South near Cambridge.
Your video clearly explains the operating economy of your heat pump. However, quite obviously, there is no financial insentive to change a working system - there are no savings to offset the price of a new heat pump.
In the spirit of “full disclosure”, I suggest a video on the alternatives: replacement of an old gas system versus a new heat pump.
Maybe the business case requires assumptions on how prices may develop to break even ?
Maybe other external factors, such as closure of gas for heating, play a role ?
Happy New Year Tom! I appreciate how data filled your videos are :) I have a question, what flow temperature are you running in your property?
A bit of feedback, your talk to camera shot could do with some work to avoid it looking like the lense is oily with harsh exposure, the rest of the video was not affected by this, you may need to update the camera you use, im not sure though.
We need not pretend that running a HSP is cheap, it’s not. I spend a fortune in winter on electricity(£336 last bill and I’m with Octopus Intelligent Go). However, my 5 bed farmhouse in North Yorkshire is warm 24/7 and have we endless hot water. Before my HSP was installed, I paid a fortune on heating oil, but the house was only warm for 6 hours a day. Summer bills are about £100 per month and I get about £30 pm on the sell back for 6 months of the year. Overall I’m very happy. Worth mentioning I run a 20k miles per year EV on that electricity usage.
Rather than the heat pump being expensive to run, your house is expensive to heat.
You'll need to internally insulate the walls with a breathable insulation like wood fibre or cork for example if you want to reduce the heat loss.
@ is my EWI not acceptable?
Thanks for the comparisons for the CO2 savings. Given the price of EVs, a heat pump seems to be a cheaper way to reduce carbon.
Hi Robin, yes I think that could be true, although it would depend on expected mileage and current heat loss of your home.
A simple rule of thumb would be every kWh of gas you use has similar emissions to every mile you drive in an average fossil fuel vehicle ~200g each. So if you drive 20,000 miles a year, that would be a bigger priority for switching to an EV than a home that used 8000 kWh of gas.
We are looking at a second hand EV at the moment, that is much more reasonable price than a new car.
Tom
Always interesting to see how others do on agile, recently it's not been so good so we've been averaging 17/18pkwh so thinking of jumping to cosy. Especially since the agile arranging charge is going up from 55p to the 70p cap on Feb 16th which is what's been putting me off going to cosy anyway
Always amazes me how much gas people use, my predicted usage from Octopus is 8300kWh of gas - 8 year old combi boiler, 4 bed (2001 build)detached house . Just a standard Wimpey house. Not exactly a warm area either - Wales. House is inhabited 24hrs a day. I just use the timer for 3 heating periods and minimum temperatures in between. If anyone feels cold we turn up the thermostat.
I live in a similar property 3 bed detached I run my Combi at 50-55 degrees for most cold days (2 degrees) which costs (according to my smart meter) about £2.60 per day so for Nov - April it costs £312 in fuel cost. For days when I'm out its off. Adjust the flow temp to suit the outside temp and the boiler works in full condensing mode
@ . Yep similar for me, gas bill is about £640 per year.
Hi both - I guess a point to remember is my home was built in the 1880s, so could be a bit leakier than a 2001 build!
Richard, altering your flow temperature is great. The heat pump users weather compensation controls to do this automatically.
Thanks
Tom
@@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle Weather compensation systems are all very well but my trusty gas boiler can be turned up to 70 to heat a cold house very quickly. Then I turn it back to 50 when house warmed in about an hour!! Old fashioned I suppose but very efficient! Cheers
@ . Have you insulated under your ground floor?
Don't forget the extra savings when you get rid of the gas mains.
All of 60p a day. The electricity cap has gone on the 1st so cancelled out any savings.
@ In the Netherlands it saves more. But don't underestimate how much a heat pump can stretch 60p worth of electricity.
Carbon brief we're quoting 125g/KWh for this year, perhaps it's lower because they included 0 carbon imports?
Hi Tom, It's the cynic back again😀. I like your videos coz you are up front in the reason you have a heat pump. You've got it to save on the Co2 and Nox emissions. Which you have considerably.
Any financial savings seem like a bonus to you👍
I always have problems with these backwards calculations and the 85/90% efficiency of boilers etc. Your energy usage 14791 Kwh in one of the warmest years on record, have I got this wrong? But it seems your usage has gone up by nearly 3000Kwh over the year you compared with in 2020 with the gas boiler. Most people have tried to cut there energy usage, I've cut mine by at least 15% but yours has gone up considerably.
The heat pump is using less energy than a gas boiler, but it seems that you now need the kWh output of the average large detached 4 bedroomed property for your heating and hot water.
Shouldn't you work the prices out on the known fig of 12000kwh for the gas boiler used in 2020 which was a colder year, and is also the average use of a 3 bedroomed property. because you wouldn't of used 15780 Kwh of gas! Because that would be approx a 30% rise in your energy usage!
Hi Jezza - I guess this is the wonder of a heat pump and its efficiency. Although we delivered more heat, we used less energy. Ie ~12,000kWh gas to ~4200kWh of electricity. The total energy we delivered may have increased but ~10,000 kWh of this energy was for ‘free’ from the air.
This means we have decreased our energy consumption by 2/3rds, the extra we have used is recycled heat locally as it leaks from our home.
If our target is reducing energy consumption then heat pumps would be a major step.
I hope this makes sense?
Tom
@@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle thanks for the reply👍I get that the heat pump produces more energy than it consumes. Im with you on the technology and saving Co2 etc, but surely, with figs you've produced, your energy consumption has gone up by over 30% on the 2020 figs? Since Youve had the heat pump your heating and hot water energy consumption has gone from 12,000kwh using gas to 14,790kwh with the heat pump? You have then said you would of used 15780kwh of gas!
Sorry Tom, am I missing something?
It doesn't add up. If in 2020 you needed 12,000 kWh, but, why do you now need 15780kw?
I guess the change to note is that we are now much more comfortable. We are using more heat, keeping the house at a more comfortable temperature.
And the comfort came as a consequence of me trying to improve efficiency. Ie running for longer hours at lower radiator temperatures.
So we now deliver more heat than we did in our first year with the system, but use a similar amount of electricity.
I take your point that the house has used more heat this year. But the key point is that it has used less energy
Thanks for getting into the detail!
Tom
@@jezzaandrews1940 you're right. As Tom was saying in the video he didn't want to heat his home fully with gas, as he was feeling guilty about it causing emissions. He eluded to disagreements about what temp to keep the house at etc in the family.
So because he's now happy using a lower polluting method of heating, he's happy to keep the house warmer.
At least that's my interpretation of the situation.
I do the same. I under heat my house because I don't want to be using "Putin juice" or "Saudi juice"
But with a heat pump I wouldn't care.and probably use more delivered heat energy.
Hi Tom. Do you run a legionnela cycle on your heat pump and if so how often?
You have to use the 3Kw ELECTRIC HEATER every week to kill the bugs as the heat pump won’t go that hot. Needs 65c for a couple of hours a week. Remember to factor that into your savings!!
@@Cyberbobxxxx the valiant ashp can reach 70c so it does a legionella cycle without difficulty and no back up, so doesn’t need an immersion heater to do this.
My heatpump runs a legionella cycle weekly. The heat pump factors that in. I have R32 refrigerant which does reach around 58 degrees before the immersion cuts in. Legionella only needs 60 degrees for 3 minutes. The immersion is only heating the last 2 degrees which is costing around 15p a week.
@Cyberbobxxxx No it doesn't. As long as the water is not stagnant (I.e. tank being replenished regularly) then it doesn't matter what temperature the water is at.
@@Cyberbobxxxx No, you don't 😂 My hot water cylinder has a 1.8kW immersion heater, not a 3kW one, and that's sufficient to top up temperatures above 55C if needed. I usually set my cylinder to 52C, which is above the Swedish regulation minimum of 50C for heat pump systems. While 52C takes longer to kill Legionella compared to higher temperatures, I could use an anti-legionella cycle (ALC) to heat it to 60°C+ with the immersion if needed. A 3kW heater is unnecessary for this!
I think it’s unfair on heat pump when we don’t consider like for like usage (lifestyle) with gas boiler. I mean, cost and co2 comparison should be 24/7 for both if heat pump is used full time (24/7).
I ran my gas boiler at 30 ish flow temperature 24/7 and it cost me about £4 a day ish and my house was really warm. My heat pump running 24/7 on octopus intelligent cost me about £3 a day.
@@mackay250 I think that is the key, low flow temperature. I was a victim and also guilty of using my boiler at very high temp hence only operated it 10hr/day. I learnt a lot when researching on heat pump that we can potentially save money and have cosy home with boilers, only factor left to tackle would be co2.
Yeah a low flow temperature saves money and uses less co2. Makes your house very warm all day too. I found when it was -2 outside I needed 35c flow. Everyday I would adjust it to the weather forecast. Worked very well. Everyone should do it.
@@mackay250 Do new boilers come with weather compensation system like heat pumps have so that you don't have to adjust flow temp daily? Just asking for anyone reading is thinking of installing a new boiler instead of heat pump.
@ Yes they do, but most don't as with mine so I just did it every morning.
Tom,
a simple question, how do you measure the heat output?
Hello! I mention it in this video - we have a dedicated heat meter measuring heat output. This is a Sontex Superstatic 449 heat meter.
Thanks
Tom
@@TomBray-LowCarbonLifestyle
That doeswn't explain how the heat is measured, just what measures it.
What exactly is it mearuring, and please don't say temperature.
@@iareid8255they often have an ultrasonic monitor for flow measurement through the pipes. So for a given pipe size, the ultrasound can measure how fast the volume is moving and therefore how much heat is travelling in it. Compare it vs the return temp and that's the heat delivered.
@@iareid8255 A heat meter measure the flow rate of the water leaving the heat pump, and the temperature difference between the flow and return pipes. The heat capacity of water is known, so it can do some simple maths to calculate the heat output. There's a lot more detail on line, but most home owners don't need to know the details, just like they don't need to understand all the complexity going on in an electricity meter.
@@iareid8255 Google is a great resource for getting answers like this, maybe you've heard of it?
Didn’t think you would comment on that documentary as it would upset your narrative, heat pumps work and have never said they didn’t, you might save a little on electricity and carbon but 99% of people just want cheep gas and electricity and a cheep combi boiler for the winter time. Carbon dioxide emissions are with us like it or not and afew heat pumps won’t make a bit of difference. Also not many people have the money or the house for it. Keep on with your videos on how great it’s going and how much carbon and money you save. But it’s not going to. I will attach these documentaries to every video you post to balance things out.
Thanks Bob, I was at work all day Friday and away this weekend so not had a chance to watch your documentary. I will watch and thoroughly debunk it when I get a chance.
I don’t want a few heat pumps, I want 25 million to replace gas boilers in the UK
Thanks again for commenting, more comments on my videos means that TH-cam will push the videos to more people!
the truth of nut zero will prevail
hmmm but you managed to get another video out!!!
@@Cyberbobxxxxrecorded on Wednesday
Hi Bob, watched the documentary, and have a few thoughts in response.
Firstly, the documentary is targeted at the low carbon economy but then goes on to discuss the problems of mining, our existing extractivist economy and the use of material broadly.
I would respond with this graph - www.energy-transitions.org/bitesize/its-in-the-charts-materials-needed-to-deliver-the-energy-transition/#:~:text=Between%202022%E2%80%932050%2C%20the%20energy,of%20steel%2C%20copper%20and%20aluminium. - i.e. the amount of coal we currently mine each year is more material than we would need in the total energy transition. So if you have some problems with the impact of mining, you would want to transition away from the existing economy.
Once we have transitioned to a low carbon future, our impact on the environment will reduce substantially. And the environmental disaster of the fossil fuel industry will no longer be required.
2nd, as a chartered environmentalist, I work to reduce environmental impact at my workplace and in my community, I am thoroughly aware of the impact of mining in the UK, and around the world. As the documentary ends, we need to move away from the growth focussed economy - more more more, towards a circular economy, possibly built on principles around 'doughnut economics' popularised by Economist Kate Raworth. This is exactly what we need to do, moving away from fossil fuels would make this much easier as we would need to mine significantly less material than our current system.
One thing to note, is that from a primary energy point of view (one metric we could use to understand how much material we use) moving away from thermal energy plants (i.e. gas power stations), from internal combustion engines and from gas boilers, towards renewable energy generation, electric vehicles and heat pumps would use significantly less energy as low carbon technology does not have the losses that thermal energy plants do.
I would encourage you to watch the documentary 'Big Oil Vs the World' - it is in 3 parts so asking a bit more of you than you did of me... 1st part here th-cam.com/video/I32R6Yx9PTI/w-d-xo.html
You may not 'believe' in climate change, but if you care about mining and environmental impact, then moving away from our business as usual is key to minimising that impact.
All the best
Tom
Any comments on the dark
Side of nut zero video? th-cam.com/video/bs0ZHj76Arc/w-d-xo.htmlsi=VBRpjbQ9rrNS_5yC
That video is just propaganda for the fossil fuel industry, I suggest people either don't bother watching it, or watch it very critically. Hint, they say a lot of things that either aren't true, or heavily exaggerated, while ignoring the huge problems of using fossil fuels.
@@MentalLentil-ev9jrdream on buddy. The truth hurts the nut zero narrative.
To many of these nut zero truth videos done by facts , figures and by scientists. You will die if you didn’t have fossil fuels as most things are made from oil!!! So you will have to live in a cave and wear animal skins and walk everywhere. There is no alternative so it’s with us like it or not and can’t be ignored like all these eco warriors trying to get us all an expensive heat pump , EV and solar panels!!! They are still having all the home comforts and oh don’t forget drugs!! All made from oil. So Sorry to tell the hole truth.
@@MentalLentil-ev9jr To many of these nut zero truth videos done with facts , figures and by scientists. You will die if you didn’t have fossil fuels as most things are made from oil!!! So you will have to live in a cave and wear animal skins and walk everywhere. There is no alternative so it’s with us like it or not and can’t be ignored like all these eco warriors trying to get us all an expensive heat pump , EV and solar panels!!! They are still having all the home comforts and oh don’t forget drugs!! All made from oil. So Sorry to tell the hole truth.
Hi Bob, watched the documentary, and have a few thoughts in response.
Firstly, the documentary is targeted at the low carbon economy but then goes on to discuss the problems of mining, our existing extractivist economy and the use of material broadly.
I would respond with this graph - www.energy-transitions.org/bitesize/its-in-the-charts-materials-needed-to-deliver-the-energy-transition/#:~:text=Between%202022%E2%80%932050%2C%20the%20energy,of%20steel%2C%20copper%20and%20aluminium. - i.e. the amount of coal we currently mine each year is more material than we would need in the total energy transition. So if you have some problems with the impact of mining, you would want to transition away from the existing economy.
Once we have transitioned to a low carbon future, our impact on the environment will reduce substantially. And the environmental disaster of the fossil fuel industry will no longer be required.
2nd, as a chartered environmentalist, I work to reduce environmental impact at my workplace and in my community, I am thoroughly aware of the impact of mining in the UK, and around the world. As the documentary ends, we need to move away from the growth focussed economy - more more more, towards a circular economy, possibly built on principles around 'doughnut economics' popularised by Economist Kate Raworth. This is exactly what we need to do, moving away from fossil fuels would make this much easier as we would need to mine significantly less material than our current system.
One thing to note, is that from a primary energy point of view (one metric we could use to understand how much material we use) moving away from thermal energy plants (i.e. gas power stations), from internal combustion engines and from gas boilers, towards renewable energy generation, electric vehicles and heat pumps would use significantly less energy as low carbon technology does not have the losses that thermal energy plants do.
I would encourage you to watch the documentary 'Big Oil Vs the World' - it is in 3 parts so asking a bit more of you than you did of me... 1st part here th-cam.com/video/I32R6Yx9PTI/w-d-xo.html
You may not 'believe' in climate change, but if you care about mining and environmental impact, then moving away from our business as usual is key to minimising that impact.
All the best
Tom
I install central heating using gas boilers. Modern boiler and customers who use the temperature controls can heat a house for about £3.00 per day in winter and 0 in summer so the small savings you show for using heat pump are negligible when compared with a possible £15000 installation cost. And for what? Climate has been changing for 3 billion years
Well said! I’ve also been a heating engineer for over 25 years. About time this narrative is questioned.
How are you heating your hot water for 0 with a gas boiler in summer?
Hi Richard - great that you install heating systems, £3 per day obviously would vary depending on the size of house, weather, internal temperature etc. A gas boiler keeping my house comfortable was not £3 per day.
Heat pumps have a £7500 grant to help support the installation. Many will cost the customer similar to a gas boiler.
I would encourage you to look again at heat pumps, we need your skills and experience if we are going to reduce reliance on gas.
And your last point about climate - absolutely it has been changing, but since humans have existed, it is unlikely to have changed this rapidly. There is risk of catastrophe, surely we should do whatever we can to minimise that risk?
(As well as reduce pollutants like NOx which damages are health, reduce reliance on dodgy regimes around the world, and reduce risk of gas price volatility)
Thanks
Tom
@@BenIsInSweden Dishwasher for washing up , electric shower for shower and sink, air fryer to cook, kettle for tea and coffee.. Total electric per day about 80pence (UK)
@@richardlewis5316 so not a benefit of a gas boiler then. Heat pump would cut the cost of the hot water used for shower and sink by about 1/3rd.
And the cost you talk of for a heat pump "£15,000" isn't for the heat pump. most of that is for switching to low temperature heating, which would benefit gas boilers as well.
£3 per day is about 47kWh at current price cap. Multiplied by 90 is about 4230kWh, typical annual gas consumption of a UK home is over double that. Unless things have changed in the UK and winter now lasts 6 months 🤷
48 degree hot water you more likely to have legionnaires disease bacteria you need hot water at 65 degree to kill bacteria. Your heatpump need to be set higher for your hotwater tank,
Hi Stephen - very true, although HSE guidance is to store above 60° not 65°.
Most heat pump systems have a pasteurisation setting that will lift water above 60 once a week to minimise legionella risk.
Tom
It is 65c and has to be that temperature constantly. This is the major flaw with heat pumps. You have to run an electric heater to boost. Otherwise legionella can occur in between .
@@Cyberbobxxxx www.hse.gov.uk/legionnaires/hot-and-cold.htm
What do you mean by electric boost? All heat pumps are electric! The system does not use an immersion coil to heat above 60
if read it it’s has to reach the tap at the correct temp. That’s why it’s at least 65c . How hot is your water out of the tap? How hot is your pump heating the cylinder? Not 65c . It will have a 3kw heater in the cylinder.
@@Cyberbobxxxx no it doesn't.. His heat pump can do 75C without an immersion.