The trick to making waders last is to get married and have kids! All kidding aside, you’ve got a great Chanel with great content. Thank you for making these videos.
@@spiltmilt I’ve had simms primarily also Patagonia (least favorite) Dan Bailey waders lasted a surprisingly long time (I was impressed) current simms I’m fishing have worked well and I would recommend sending waders to Simms for professional patch work repair. When I’ve done this simms knew exactly what I was wearing under the waders just through wear.
I’ve gotten 5-6 seasons out of a cheap BiMart Allen wader and then had to patch seams on more expensive waders. Honestly, at this point I’m going to stick with comfortable waders that cost $100 and keeping a $12 can of Flex Seal on hand.
Yeah, I had some micro leaks I had trouble finding and sealing, and I just sprayed the area with Flex Seal and they held up fine all summer. I don't really expect that to be a long term fix, but easy and at least works for a while!
Same experience as a lot of other commenters here. I am a biologist and have spent hundreds of days in the field in waders. Work that’s hard on gear like wilderness redd surveys and building and maintaining fish fences. 20 years ago all the waders were crap then simms started making these amazing models like the guides, then g3/4s. Those lasted forever and were way more comfortable. I bought a new pair last year and they are much flimsier than older models despite being much more expensive. Cost has gone up far beyond consumer price index so it doesn’t make sense. Maybe there’s a new better brand of top of the line stuff now, I don’t know?
It's because of the material advancements. Modern gortex pro is significantly more light weight and supple than what they were using 20 years ago. And its breathable so you're not wearing a water balloon on your lower half. It does the job without having to be 20lbs and half an inch thick. Nobody wants that. However, they COULD make them more durable, but then they wouldn't be able to sell you new $700 waders every 2 years.
My Dad bought a second hand diving drysuit that had a damaged zipper about 20 years ago. He got it quite cheap, I forget what he paid for it, anyway he cut the top off below the zipper (It was across the shoulders) and sewed the inbuilt braces at the top where he cut it down (to stop it flopping down). He's still using them!
I’ve been fishing since I could walk, so 40 ish years lol! And I have never had a pair of waders last more than two seasons. I’ve spent anywhere from $60 to $400 on a pair, and the only difference I noticed was comfort. Price seems to have zero effect on longevity 🤣
it depends how many days in a year you on the water. For me one waders served approximately 3-4 years without leaking and patches, and nearly 6 years totally after being repaired. It doesn't matter cheap or expensive, they all start to leak when getting older. Professional guides wear one set of waders in a year.
There's an industry term for that, though I think I'm spelling it wrong, "Planned Obselences." If was originally introduced with household appliances; vacuums, refrigerators, water heaters, washers and dryers. Then it extended to other industries. Put a 5 year warranty on an item that, on average, will fail in 6 years. Build it in a way, that it'll last just beyond whatever warranty period is chosen. Many manufacturers will intentionally build a product, with a part that, when it fails, is just expensive enough, that replacement is cheaper than the fix.
I just experienced that very thing with a refrigerator. Luckily i'm retired and had the time and enough know-how to do a repair that cost me $60. To have it repaired would have likely run $400-$500 minimum. Planned obselences indeed !
I totally agree with you. I had a pair of high end neoprene waders. After 2 seasons of moderate fishing, the developed the rub leak. And, you don’t know the rub is till you are in the coldest water of the fishing season.
Spot on and it seems to be getting worse. Always loved simms waders, but their new G3 & G4 waders are paper thin compared to the old reliable ones from just a few years ago. We want thicker, warmer; longer lasting waders not $600 throw away ones
Agree! My favorite waders were the original guide waders from years ago. These lasted soo long I didn't need to look for new ones until the quality started to drop off. The new so called "guide classic" are no where near the same wader, I can't believe they are pretending they are the same
Same here! I fish steelhead in the Midwest so I don’t care if they breathe (rubber waders are warmer). No way in hell am I paying 100s of $$ for something that lasts only a couple of years.
Love your reviews and topics that matter. Personally I buy cheap waders and replace when needed. A $600, two season wader is not in my wheelhouse and agree they are built to fail.
Great post. I feel the same. I also use the same philosophy when buying rain jackets. I get 5yrs out of $30 Frogg Togg jackets while guys I know who have $200 jackets have to replace them over the same period.
@@rustyknott-W.Drain jackets have never failed me in the way he described waders failing. Ive ONLY seen High end rain jackets get ruined if people walk through a raspberry patch or gorse or sitting too close to a sparky fire.
rather put that into news lures and reel/rod setups. I have a pair of $90 2ply 420D nylon waders I've had for more than 15 years and somehow they are still going strong, no rips, no tears, no leaks and I've abused them in my adventures wading through the river, dropping off 7-10 ft drops on islands in water, sliding down ravines and steep hills in the bush, walking through thick brush, hopping over fallen trees etc etc
A friend told me the story of Caterpillar Inc. builders of heavy equipment. Their equipment was too well built and lasted too long so they switched to inferior materials -- reducing the equipment's life span and increasing sales for parts, services, new orders etc... It's the same for many industries too. For example, how long do today's kitchen appliances last vs 20 years ago...and so on... Thanks for the video...I'm thinking about buying cheap waders and wearing a wet suit underneath....
I bought my first set of waders back in about 1974 or 75. Just out of grad school, and not a whole lot of income, I got a pair which were booted, thick-walled - and cheap. They are still holding up, in spite of stream fishing for steelhead and surf fishing for red tail perch. Heavy as all get out, cumbersome and not as "nice" as the expensive stuff I saw older (then) fishermen wearing, while they plied the waters with their expensive rods and reels or fly gear. Not sure if that makes any difference to the conversation; I have looked at the far lighter waders, but have never been able to justify the expense when what I have still works. And if that newer lighter stuff wears leaks quickly, it is even less of an incentive to change up. Oh, and the only time mine breathe is when I step out of them.
...I have had multiple brand name waders and have been fortunate with Orvis Products... I walk long distances through some heavy brush , wear them wade and drift fishing from a one man pontoon.... A few things I do practice... Hang them to dry as much as possible when fishing a few days back to back...and afterwards make sure to dry them thorougly... I also wear either Fleece or Soft Cotton lounging pants to avoid inside wear from rubbing.... I also found purchasing a size that allows easy bending or knelling to help.. As for Company Warranty's ?? When purchasing a pair of Waders it pays to know when they were manufactured..?? How long have they been In-Stock..It does come into play for warranty it seems.... Thank You.... Tight Lines // Dry Waders..
I've had the Dryft S14 for 3 years now. They probably get ~25 days of use mostly in the winter with some spring and summer on the Oregon coast. The wader material itself seems pretty stout. It has taken some thick brush, including blackberry, and more than a handful of falls with no leaks or holes. I did have to send my first pair back in due to leaking neoprene booties but Dryft was great and sent me a new pair. I was planning on trying Simms whenever these Dryfts give up the ghost but this video has me thinking twice.
Hopefully, the company's see this video and read the comments. That way they can get educated on their products. Personally they should last at least five years and not cost an arm and a leg.
I've worked in a specialty fly shop for close to 10 years and have been flyfishing for 40. Aside from kneeling and brush, one of the deciding factors in your waders leaking is how you sized them when you tried them on. Most people want them to look like a pair of pants. If you can't high step in them with no binding, anywhere, you will stress the seams and seam tape and they will leak. The other major factor would be wearing jeans under your waders. Jean seams will wear out the tricot liner in most waders if you walk any appreciable distance. Size them baggier and wear running pants - they will last longer.
Could Not agree more, god it’s insane. The price of these things are crazy now. I refuse to spend more then 300 dollars on a pair now. I’ve been fishing for 20+ years and haven’t had a pair last more then 2 years. Was running G3’s and Redington’s the last few years both are beyond shot at 2 years old. Covered in aqua seal at this point and I’m still soaked.
I wonder if it would be a good option to just wear a dry suit but then have some kind of hook/thorn protection on top (loose wetsuit, broke waders, or something). Looking at my fishing logs, I did 76 trips last year and have done 63 trips this year. The vast majority using my dry suit. My current pair of waders I got from Cabela's last October and they're already leaking a bit. Edit: I've worn the Cabela's waders 17 times.
I used to duck hunt and wear Hodgeman canvas faced rubber waders. I hated them for warm water times of year fishing because they did not breathe at all, yet they were extremely durable as I would walk to ponds in woods through areas of briars/thorns and just tree branches beating them. They lasted 10 years until an exposed nail in a duck blind d poked a whole in them, but all I did was patch them. They wore in-between the thighs and crotch area just like you mentioned, but still lasted. They were just cumbersome and you needed to wear heavy soft fleece to make them comfortable. Interesting you mentioned using your waders in a Kayak and pedaling. The breathable waders I used I would sometimes ride my mountain bike with them. The motion of my legs pedaling is not the same scissor type motion of walking. I have not tested this theory out, but just think if you walked in your dry suit as much as your waders (or vice versa), would the wear and tare be the same or at least similar. As I said, I don't know for sure, but I'm just putting that out there for consideration. Oddly enough my Hodgeman waders were less than a hundred bucks and literally took a beating. I just delt with their design but made it work. Unfortunately I would not recommend them for fishing which is primarily done in warmer times of the year.
Thanks for making this video. I’ve been looking into waders. As a guy on a budget I won’t feel like I’m wasting money on the less expensive brands/models when I pull the trigger to buy. On a side note, you’re comment about Patagonia made me think of something. I’d love to see you do a video about the whole “hatchery vs wild” argument. I hear tons of opinions out there, but almost none of them educated. I’d love to hear someone like yourself come at it with science and statistics.
@@kirkhuffstater5565Is fishing for stocked fish really fishing? Is it sporting to follow the hatchery truck? Are you a real man if you hoist out a dazed and confused old hatchery breeder, and put it on your stringer?
@@kirkhuffstater5565it’s like hunting on a ranch that breeds deer to be killed. You are going where there is 100% going to be game, the guides know where the game is at all times, the game is not shy, and your chances of success are excessively high. Basically, you’re “shooting fish in a barrel”. You don’t have to hunt at all. It’s handed to you. Same with fishing in a hatchery. There are excessive amounts of fish, and you know what type and where they’re going to be. It’s like how you would set up a game for a child. You make it easier for them so they enjoy it. It’s the same here. Take the challenge out of it so these city guys can come give you money to say they did something over the weekend with low effort and high yield.
I’ve had some simms G3’s for three years now of hard use. I probably have ~200 days on them, lots of walking, lots of blackberry brush bashing. The key is to send them in for repairs each year. Simms will fix all pinhole leaks, reinforce seams, replace booties and pressure test the waders before sending them back. First ones free, $60 after that. Makes them last a lot longer and is worth it. Plus you can find them on sale from time to time. Paid 330 for mine.
Good to know. I've never owned a pair of waders. I fish a lot. Been looking at different brands, now I know maybe spending more money isn't worthwhile. Do most of you use waders with boots integrated? Or waders then buy boots? Anyone have any advice on a decent pair that won't break the bank?
I have sevral sets of simms. The lower end that are not goretex and I can see leaking I'm sure. But with my g 3s and g4s. I'm having zero issues with over 200 days a yr in each pair!! I fish the pnw and bust brush. If u use and good wash such as Nik wax. You will have a long life. Also hang dry them after each use. Washing goretex is a must to keep it working. Also when u buy the real good stuff it has a warranty if your the original owner.
I sold Simms for many years. The G3 and G4s definitely had the least issues of the models we sold. Freestones and Tributary models not so much. Simms warranty was generally good on the higher models but not always and I do feel they screwed over customers on a few occasions. We had many Patagonias returned for leaks but they were consistent about getting them replaced.
@@spiltmilt I have a older set of the g3s also and those bastards are bulletproof!!! I just after about 3 to 4 uses hit them in the tub with the nik wax and there tuts
I guess I'm old school. I've never wasted money on that stuff. I'm 73 years old and I've worn either shorts or jeans right into the water since I was a kid.
I tired waders years ago . Once I almost flooded them once . I never put them back on . If it’s too cold to be in the water, it’s too cold to be in the water
I have had the same problems, they al leak after awhile. Bill Wetzel the surf casting guide from L.I.had a similar video. Like yourself I am forced to use waders with an inseam longer than my legs and that has impacted both the wear and comfort. You put out good and well thought out content.
I have the same issue as you with the short 30" inseam. I recently bought a Pair from Cabelas and it was the Stout line of waders that have a shorter inseam. I am surprised how many companies have that one size fits all body style.
I am constantly pulling thorns out of my arms I can only assume if I bought waders they would leak my first couple outings. Is my logic wrong? I’m thinking high rain/dairy boots might be the best option.
Wow thats crazy. I have only owned one pair of waders and so far no leaks in them. I have a pair to Patagonia, bought 2019 and fished four seasons in them already. Your pairs look nice and clean almost like new. Mine are much harder worn it seems and still hanging in there. Wonder how long mine will go. Maybe you need to start a company and build waders out of the dry suit tech.
Anytime I’ve gotten a hole in my waders I figured out the best patch on accident. I use automobile gasket sealer. The stuff stays flexible and is durable. It doesn’t look pretty but be a man the goal is to catch fish not a fashion show.
My original Simms Guide waders were fished 200+ days with no leaks until we ran into submerged barbwire on Taylor River in Colorado. The next pair of Simms Guides and Orvis waders both leaked within a season. Now I have Frogg Toggs and Paramount. I take both pair on every trip, and have yet to have an issue. (Knock on wood.)
Hi bye inexpensive Cabela's waiters, and before I ever put them in the water, I seam seal, all of the seams and all of the wear spots that I have experienced over 40 years on the water. This seems to be the most economical way to deal with the waiter problem that you describe I get about 150 to 200 days on the water out of a pair of Cabelas waiters at half the price of the major brands. I haven't tried seem sealing the major brands before I wear them because I don't buy them.
Its all about the "price point", "profit margins" and "planned obsolescence". Every user has a "price point". That is what they are willing to pay. That applies all the way through the market. As the cost of materials and labour go up the manufacturers try to maintain the price point thinking that if the cost goes up the buyer will go "no thanks" and look elsewhere. They maintain the price point and their profit margin by lowering material and production costs. So overtime the production quality of waders at every price point will get worse whenever the cost of labour and materials go up. I will point out that companies do not make more profit by selling you waders every ten years. They make more profit by selling your new waders every three years. There is a constant battle between reputation, quality and profit. So this is "planned obsolescence". Your waders are made to fail at a certain point. It's all dependent on how a manufacturer decides to place itself in the market. From premium to cheap and nasty. The world wide economy is suffering at the moment so I am expecting a drop in production quality across many, many goods in order to maintain profit margins. Waders are not immune to these issues.
I don't fish with waders but I sail a lot in the cold months and my current drysuit lasted 4 years before I sold it to my friend which he is still using. It ran me $600 but has held up fine. I'd recommend Gill if anyone is looking for a drysuit since they use neoprene gaskets which are in my opinion a lot more comfortable and durable than the latex ones. Sandiline also makes a really good drysuit.
What are your thoughts on switching to dry bibs instead of waders? Not only for the durability but I noticed many of them have a neoprene waste belt which seems much safer to me.
I dont much use waders but I'd wonder just for kicks whether or not a altertered dry suit could last longer than a set of waders. Someone who alters cloths could easily remove the sleeves, change the cut and add a set of suspenders to a dry suit.
Well, it's comforting to know that at least I'm not the only one...I don't feel that I do anything excessive to wear these products out but waders and wading boots seem to be my nemeses.....I feel that I care for my gear reasonably well, yet I feel lucky to get a season out of either waders or boots- to the point that I've stopped buying boots at all and just use Chucks, or the same sandals I wear for wet wading in summer ( Tevas, Chacos)...
@@spiltmilt, Hi I hope this message finds you since this video is a year old, Anyway I've checked all the comments and haven't seen anyone mention, High N Dry wader's. They redesigned how wader's are made, by putting the seam on the outside of the legs instead of through the crotch! They (two buddy's) were featured on Outdoor GPS. Really enjoy your channel! Thank You.
Manufacturers could easily improve quality and durability, but they won't. Getting a constant stream of new purchases is their goal. I've tried a number of brands and every single pair have leaked. I've mostly owned Simms, but the quality is really terrible now, so currently I am wearing Vision and one year with those, no leaks, yet...
I’m on my 3rd pair of waders in 3 years. First pair were Patagonia’s, lasted about 14months. Next pair Orvis Pro’s, lasted 18 months. Now on my 3rd pair, Orvis Pro’s again. I fish 50 plus days a year, year round. I’m out in summer’s heat and briars and winter’s snow & cold. Agree, sometimes I think there is obsolescence built in. A dry suit’s not a bad idea! Not sure where I’ll go next time. Maybe Simms. Tony
I have $160 redingtons (that are great) and $900 simms g4’s. Because my local fly shop only ever had mediums simms for me to try on, I had to blindly order size Large in the g4’s. Well they fit like skinny jeans and I dread the process of taking them off after fishing. I know one of these times I am going to hear the unmistakable ripping sound of a seam loosening or actually tearing. Also I bought them through a friend (long story, combined orders) so I don’t really even have a proper receipt if I tried to warranty them. I really appreciate my redingtons more now
If drysuits have held up much better why not use drysuit bibs instead? Kokatat NRS and others make drysuit bibs that have the same coverage as waders and are more versatile as you could add a dry top so you wouldn't need to buy a drysuit and waders.
I think overall the point you are making is valid which is that waders are a consumable item that are not lasting as long as they should for the price, but a few thoughts: 1 - I would guess the motion of hiking in the waders creates more abrasion than the pedaling motion in a kayak. Having done both (walk in waders and pedal in a dry suit), there's a lot more "swishing" when walking in waders than when I pedal my Hobies. Hiking in waders seems to me the #1 cause of premature wear of waders. Something i have done to keep my duck hunting waders around longer is to not hike into the blind in them as much as I can (I also do that to not overheat). I would wager that if you were were not hiking miles in fishing waders that they would last a bit longer. I would also guess that your dry suits probably have more pin hole leaks than you normally realize since you aren't typically subjecting them to constant submergence. 2 - From what I understand, breathable fabrics/membranes have essentially zero stretch. As such, if they are bit tight, you will really pull on the seams which is an easy way to cause premature leakage. So it is important to make sure the fabric is abit looser in those areas (like knees) so that you move within the wader rather than stressing the seams. Problem is, loose fabric = abrasion wear. Seems like companies could add reinforcements in key areas (like a lot of fishing dry suits are) to help there. They could also just make the face fabric in the 3 layer construction a higher weight to improve durability. This would add weight to the wader, but if done in key areas it could help with durability (I have seen this in some jackets, like an Arcteryx I have where they use heavier face fabric on the shoulders and elbows where you see wear from backpacks and brushing into things). 3 - If I recall, these days you aren't the biggest fan of Kokatat these days, but have you tried their line of bibs (essentially stocking foot waders)? It looks like Level 6 and NRS also make a similar bib/wader. 4 - I don't think I saw it mentioned in the video, but in your opinion, what is a reasonable life for waders? I think measuring in trips is a bit hard just because 1 trip could mean hop out of the car and walk to the river or 1 trip could be a 3 mile hike each way.
For me, the biggest single issue in wader longevity I noticed was switching to wet wading during the late spring, summer, and fall. I wear the neoprene socks, and when the water is colder in the late spring and fall, I wear a .5mm neoprene swim pant under my quick dry pants. That being said, I don't spend more than $300 on waders either, my current pair of G3's I got for 60% off because they only had that size remaining and it was the last pair of the old camo pattern. Unfortunately, you have to kind of treat waders as 50 fishing day items...
My G3 lasted 2 seasons. Major leak in the material. Sent them in for evaluation, after months past I received an email stating that the material lasted it's life expectation and nothing they were going to do. Before I could reply, the first email was followed up with a second email with a UPS tracking information sending them back to me. It's unfortunate when they got bought out their reputation as one of the world leaders in waders went with it. Just doesn't make sense that the price point goes through the roof, quality lacks, and customer support hides behind some big corporate lawyers nonsense.
Sorry to hear that. I wish I could give you some advice on a different wader company. I think you are on to something with a wet suit company making waders. I would happily pay $1000.00 if I could get what I paid for.
Tyler, I think you're both spending too much and expecting too much. I purchased a pair of Simms Zip up the front waders and after 4 years they began to leak. I sent them back to Simms for repair and was pleased when they said they couldn't be repaired at the seam and sent me a brand new pair! Wow! Out of warranty! That's darn good customer service. So, learning my lesson, I decided to buy less expensive waders in the $125 range and have been really pleased with my new Reddingtons not leaking after 5 years of use mainly in the salt for Oregon surf perch as well as in the Deschutes, Wilson and Necanicum for steelhead. What I've learned about waders is don't spend too much, take extra good care of them and just expect failure, usually fixable by yourself, after 4 years or so. Good video Tyler. Hope to see you on the Willamette next spring! Tight lines, Mark in Portland
I have been on the fence for quite some time about buying waders, and believe me I have looked at them all. I finally considered some called DRYFT from a company north of Seattle. But now after watching this video I will probably pass on those too. Thanks for saving me $500.
When I started fishing 40 years ago I was a kayaker. And I would just use my neoprene Farmer John's because I couldn't afford waiters too. They worked great for years and years. They had some holes in there but I was always warm. And if I got too hot I could just roll the top down. When I got my first pair of neoprene waders they seemed so much more clunky. I came across those farmer johns in the garage the other day. I don't think they could stretch far enough to fit now. Haha
I've recently purchased a pair of Dryft waders. Been out once so far. I've heard good things about these folks. Priced less than Simms. I feel like any wader you buy they will eventually leak. Especially around the neoprene boot seams. That gets me every time! I think Dryft adds an extra seam to their products.
I have Caddis, in about 2 years they started leaking in a couple of spots...I fish way less then Tyler here...since then been just dealing with that...fixed leaks once, lasted a trip or two and back to leaking...
Luckily my Orvis clearwater waders have been great. I bought them when I moved to the mountains so I could do field work during my MS Biology (fishery focused program). I bought these in 2021 and they are still holding up great today and I am rough on my stuff. I have been out in the "field" for my MS research many hours and days in addition to all the fishing I do. Currently, I've been fishing probably 3 times a week and probably over 100 trips this year. I am surprised how well they have held up especially since I am shorter too. Which means I sometimes have to slide down banks or over the tops of logs etc. During this time I have been through two sets of boots and I have just now bought some Korkers. My Orvis Pro boots only lasted a little under a year before I had to start gluing them back together with Barge Cement. I even had a local cobbler glue them back together and it only took two trips before they were coming apart again if that tells you anything about how well I durability test my items.
Like many others here, I get failures mostly in the booties. I have begun wearing waterproof stockings (pants too) whenever I am in waders. That way, if there are small leaks, the water never touches my skin. I can always extend my wader use that way. Have never bought an expensive pair as it has always been the opinion that those don't last any longer. I can get up to three seasons with mine but I don't fish as much as you guys. I am in waders maybe 30 times a year.
Went through two pairs of stocking foot waders while steelheading all week on a trip. Of course my feet started to go numb when the water starting leaking in slowly. At this point I feel like fishing out of boats more with muck boots on and regular pants with all weather bibs. I will only wade in the summer months when its more fun anyways. I loved my Steelheader titaniums before they died.
been fly fishing 2 years. I've had 2 pairs of waders leak. Both of them Redington XRs, or whatever the 500 dollar wader is called. I fish about 30 times a year, very disappointed in them. THAT SAID, they all are made in china in the same factory. There is nothing special about a Orvis, vrs Redington, vrs Simms. They all are made in the same Chinese factories by the same 12 year old kids, and are designed to fail. Damn right they are! they are designed to fail so you have to buy more crap, Its forced obsolescence, it effects ALL INDUSTRY! Consumerism, the lightbulb conspiracy for sure.
I think it’s a hit or miss thing I’ve hade several pairs of Simms G-3 waders and have gotten hundreds of day of us out of them without an issue. I had a pair where I wore the neoprene boot out and they replaced it for a charge , one thing I have noticed is warranties say they will do a lot but when it comes down to it they don’t or in cases like Simms it takes three to 4 weeks to get them repaired which is not acceptable when you in the middle of the best spring or fall fishing when you really need them .
I had a pair of Simms G3’s for 20 years and the next pair I bought lasted 3 years. I’m honestly thinking the heat of my garage in the summer is what ruined my last pair.
One thing I’ve noticed about the G3s is that the early models were tanks. So much so as I’d recommend them to everyone. My fishing partner has 8 years on his without a leak 1. However, in the last 4 years I’ve seen a common trend with people buying the G3s and they ALL have leaked within the first 3 trips out. One was so bad on the first trip out I thought my friend was just mistaking sweat for a leak but when he dumped out his leg it was full of river water. I had similar experiences with the Simms headwaters. I bought a pair in 2012 and just retired them in 2021. I wish they still made them the same
Totally agree. I know a guy in fishing retail, lot’s of complaints on breathable waders, no brand lasts. That’s why we use the cheap rubber waders that are non breathable and cut very wide, they are really cheap (longterm test is ongoing) My kayak dry suit also lasts great and I bought it second hand.
Really interesting video. I fish out of a boat most often. I own a set of cheap set of Allen waders that are mostly used when fishing out of my small pontoon on no motor lakes. I probably only have 15 days of walking rivers on these waders as when it is warm out I just wet wade. I expect the lower end outer wear to leak after time but I did not expect the more expensive brands to fail so quickly.
I've got the same problem with the inseam size. I've got a long torso and shorter legs so the Large Short size fit my legs almost perfectly but then the torso is too short and it's confining if I need to bend or crouch. On the other end the regular size fit perfectly in the body but bunch up in the legs and then they rub and wear out. For this reason I don't spend more than 250$ on waders because I know I'll be replacing them once every year or two. That said I get my moneys worth because I fish a lot. I grew up surfing so for the surf fishing I do now I often just wear a wetsuit and neoprene booties which last for years compared to waders. I spent $180 on a rip curl wetsuit 4 years ago and it's still going strong. It is a lot safer to wade in the ocean in a wetsuit too. that said I understand that wearing a wetsuit isn't ideal for all fishing situations. Regarding which waders I've found to be the best after trying Orvis, Reddington, and Patagonia in the past... Simms Freestone seem to be the best balance of durability and cost effectiveness in my experience.
Whwn needed, I've been going to Academy and picking a pair of their Magellan pro waders every summer when they go on Clearence for 50% off. They're decent waders and come down to $75. I usually get around 100 trips on them before any issues.
I bought a pair of dryft this year and they se well made. I bought them because my nephew is tough on his gear and they hold up. Caddis waders for the price lasted for 3 years and bought a new pair of hodgeman. They are tough but out of business now I think. Simms does make nice warm items but as said 700.00 is ALOT for 3 years use. Have also found inexpensive waders honor warranties well into the purchase. I do like the dryft and also purchased last years rain jacket for 150.00 new it's 350.00 plus dryft plants a tree for every purchase. They have the BEST customer service as well . Thanks for the vids! Time to get ready for early Steelie trip! Cheers gentlemen.👍🎣🎣🎣💯
40 years ago my Dad bought my brother and me each a pair of Cabelas 330 Cordura waders. Those were incredibly rugged. Wore them when rabbit hunting through all kinds of thorns. Lost them so tried to find the same. They use much heavier Cordura now. I liked the light weight and certainly didn't need heavier to resist tears. I would still recommend looking for a Cordura pair. Mine lasted 20 years of heavy use before I lost them probably when moving.
I am using $100-140 breathable stocking foot waders - the best has been the Cabelas with a zipper, now going on 12 uses. One problem surfaced at 10 uses - the elastic cord at the top pulled into the sleeve. Now, most of the time I am using them to launch and recover a duckboat, minimal walking around streambanks. So with your information, I will just keep going with what I have. The waders you describe cost way more than my shotgun and waders combined. The drysuit comparison is interesting, never considered them as an alternative. I have used a lot of neoprene waders for work, fishing and hunting and still have 3. They need to be a little oversize or they will open up in the crotch area.
I haven't heard about that company but the concept is very familiar. In fact wet wading using a combination of neoprene pants and waterproof socks is the preferred wading configuration for many Japanese anglers because their streams often require long distances of hiking and bouldering to fish. At the same time most of their streams close during the winter months and I often see them using waders during the colder months.
You are right, they all will leak sooner then you expected. Buy cheap one and if it won't leak the first year - that is typical the warranty period, then stick with the brand. I am happy with any brand that last 2-3 years with a patching kit.
Simms G3 and G4’s I’ve had for year. Normal maintenance as recommended per the manufacturer, has helped mine last. I do not work for simms or get any benefits from them. I use a “short” in both as I’m a 29.5” inseam and no holes. I spend 50-60 days per year on water in waders. Thanks
I need a new pair...my dryft waders gave out after about 2 years. I'm nervous spending the money on some new simms now that they got bought out. I'm not sure what I'm gonna do.
What would be the cost though? Even if they guaranteed to never leak or free replacement, I don’t see myself paying $1200 up front for waders. I paid that for my dry suit, but that will save my life. Just my first thought. I do think they have the technology to do it
Regarding warranty, I will say that Dryft is great. They shipped me new waders within a few hours of emailing them, no questions asked. Just had to send my damaged ones back and they even paid the return shipping.
Agreed. Great customer service. My primo zip fronts needed repair at the zipper and inside one of the pockets after 3yrs. And they sent me the brand new model!
I gave up on expensive waders. I was going to buy a new pair and patch the same area from new so it would wear the patch first but I just purchased a cheap pair to test so far they have lasted longer. They are not as nice fitting and a lot heavier but still dry. My cheap $50 pair is still going strong 3 years later and I fish all year around. They must be about 2cents a fish and still going strong.
Depending on the times of the year you fish, have you considered wearing a surfing wet suit? You will remain warm, but wet at the end of the day. I've watched the Japanese Tenkara fishermen and women use what I think are wet suit pants when they hike to their fishing destination and make many stream crossings. I've asked them what they are wearing in the best way I could. They replied and I figured that they are wearing wet suit pants for their hikes and creek crossings. There is now a company called Wader Skins that make them. Check them out.
full rubber feet or fabric feet on dry suit what is your preference? and why do you think they do not do full neoprene feet on dry suits in the first place, would be more durable no? . own dry suit with the exception of getting out of it beats waders any day
I've always been curious about this too. You almost never see neoprene feet on drysuits. I am not sure why. I don't think its necessary but the added warmth in cold water wading is nice.
Very happy with my Vision Koski waders. I bought them in late 2020 and they are still going strong. I do try to take good care of them though. I use them in salt water exclusively and always rinse and dry them after use. At €200/$235 back then they were very reasonably priced but I'm sure the price has gone up since 2020.
Great vid, Thank you. All great points and could not agree more the industry does seem to make the products for "job security" not product longevity. I live on the east coast , fish lake Ontario and tribs through the fall and a lot of the time it's bush wracking to get to other spots, last pair of waders I threw away was patched with silicone over 14 times. Not everyone can afford 200 to $ 500 every other season for waders. My nxt pair will prob be a dry suit.
I buy the mid priced Simms and I usually get 5 seasons before a leak. I’ve taken to just simply going over the seams with aqua seal to begin with, if anything, for the added peace of mind.
I wade inshore saltwater. No freshwater stuff. My question and complaint is about wading jackets. Why and how does an uninsulated, glorified rain jacket cost 150-600 dollars?
Sadly Tyler, many, many, many things today are engineered to fail as opposed to being engineered to last. My wife and I have been buying shell jackets for over 25 years made by Arcteryx and they've never failed. We wear them snowshoeing and hiking (buskwhacking through berry bushes, beech saplings; we rarely use an actual trail), mountain biking, kayaking, etc. and in more than 30 years we've never torn one or had a hole develop despite routinely hearing the sound of twigs and bramble scraping across them as well as the occasional scrape with granite. The jackets are made of multi-layer GoreTex with welded seams; similar to what high end waders are made with. We have to reapply DWR 2-3 times per year after we wash them but they still bead water like a freshly waxed car. The jackets are not cheap (average around $6-$700) but I've got one that I've had for 15 years that has no holes, no fraying at the cuffs, no tears, etc. and we're in the woods all the time either hiking, snowshoeing or mountain biking. I've only owned one pair of waders about 10 years ago and they lasted 2 seasons and then leaked...I got so annoyed at the prospect of having to buy them again that I never did. I absolutely agree with your assessment of the situation.
I had my pair of reddington waders for 5 years and they finally sprung a leak last weekend. I used aquaseal on all of the foot seams and it seems to be holding up well so far. Don't buy new ones if you can repair your old ones folks
I have a pair of cheap wathers, got wet inside on first day use but not sure if from water getting in on chest area since I was deep in water; will see next time. Honestly I don't wear wathers to stay dry, I do because they give me a sence of safety when in the water from anything specially sting rays. I always use the ones with boot. But this page as made me realize that those expensive wathers I was considering to buy to actually stay completely dry also fail so will stick with lower end ones.
Sounds sort of like golf clubs, in a way. You can spend $2,000 on top of the line clubs, like the youngster I played with earlier this week, or you can look for deals, like the $12 driver and the $5 woods and the $3 irons I bought over the last couple years at Goodwill. The wader manufacturers know that wader buyers tend to have more money than most people; if you don't, they aren't going to lose a lot of money not selling to you because you can't/won't spend a lot of money for their overpriced products. There are enough wealthy folks they can fleece. Sort of like the skiing industry, where the big players like Vail buy up the good local mountains like Stevens Pass, then double the daily ticket price because there are plenty of people who will pay that much.
The biggest problem is you cant get them custom so you dont have the correct fit. My inseam is 30 and the extra fabric is the curse. I have called customer service at Simms to ask if I could pay to have them tailored and they will not. My buddys fit perfect and he gets twice the wear
Yeah I honestly have never had a good pair of waders. No matter what brand I've tried they've all leaked at some point. I even had a pair of Hodgman's that leaked right out of the box. At this point I've basically decided to just buy cheap waders and replace them when I have to, I've discovered buying expensive ones doesn't even really make a difference. It's not a matter of if your waders are going to leak, it's a matter of when.
There are two kinds of waders. Those that leak and those that are going to leak. No way around this fact. Learn to repair and patch them or pay out the A.
Vision koski 4 layer are a bulletproof wader. I'm heavy (115kg) and do a lot of hiking in them, so I always use (and replace) vision neoprene socks over my wader booties AND buy the boots a size larger to allow for the extra foot bulk. In the last 4 years of heavy and frequent Gorge fishing with heavy undergrowth and climbing required, only now (70 fishing days and over 500km) are my waders beginning to show vag signs of bootie wear. I believe I'll get at least another 2 seasons before I have to start reinforcing the booties with Aquaseal. I have found that the more sand and grit you can keep out of your boots, the longer the sock will wear, so avoid those boots that think drain holes are a selling point- they also let the rubbish in to create friction and wear on your precious socks/booties.
The trick to making waders last is to get married and have kids! All kidding aside, you’ve got a great Chanel with great content. Thank you for making these videos.
Haha 😂
@@spiltmilt I’ve had simms primarily also Patagonia (least favorite) Dan Bailey waders lasted a surprisingly long time (I was impressed) current simms I’m fishing have worked well and I would recommend sending waders to Simms for professional patch work repair. When I’ve done this simms knew exactly what I was wearing under the waders just through wear.
So true haha
Bwahaha 😂
I loved that joke
I’ve gotten 5-6 seasons out of a cheap BiMart Allen wader and then had to patch seams on more expensive waders. Honestly, at this point I’m going to stick with comfortable waders that cost $100 and keeping a $12 can of Flex Seal on hand.
Yeah, I had some micro leaks I had trouble finding and sealing, and I just sprayed the area with Flex Seal and they held up fine all summer. I don't really expect that to be a long term fix, but easy and at least works for a while!
Have you guys tried patching with Freesole? Just curious.
@@outdoorloser4340 I have not
Cool tip thanks
Flex seal and Gorilla duct tape will make a $99 set of waders last an extra season or 2 for sure
Same experience as a lot of other commenters here. I am a biologist and have spent hundreds of days in the field in waders. Work that’s hard on gear like wilderness redd surveys and building and maintaining fish fences. 20 years ago all the waders were crap then simms started making these amazing models like the guides, then g3/4s. Those lasted forever and were way more comfortable. I bought a new pair last year and they are much flimsier than older models despite being much more expensive. Cost has gone up far beyond consumer price index so it doesn’t make sense. Maybe there’s a new better brand of top of the line stuff now, I don’t know?
I can't agree more. My old G4s finally gave up the ghost. I bought a pair of G3s (couldn't afford G4s) and I have been less than impressed.
Dryft blows any Simms waders out of the water
Typical corporate find a way to make it cheaper and charge more..
Grunden’s?
It's because of the material advancements. Modern gortex pro is significantly more light weight and supple than what they were using 20 years ago. And its breathable so you're not wearing a water balloon on your lower half. It does the job without having to be 20lbs and half an inch thick. Nobody wants that. However, they COULD make them more durable, but then they wouldn't be able to sell you new $700 waders every 2 years.
My Dad bought a second hand diving drysuit that had a damaged zipper about 20 years ago. He got it quite cheap, I forget what he paid for it, anyway he cut the top off below the zipper (It was across the shoulders) and sewed the inbuilt braces at the top where he cut it down (to stop it flopping down). He's still using them!
Awesome 👏
I’ve been fishing since I could walk, so 40 ish years lol! And I have never had a pair of waders last more than two seasons. I’ve spent anywhere from $60 to $400 on a pair, and the only difference I noticed was comfort. Price seems to have zero effect on longevity 🤣
Google backcountry skinz
it depends how many days in a year you on the water. For me one waders served approximately 3-4 years without leaking and patches, and nearly 6 years totally after being repaired. It doesn't matter cheap or expensive, they all start to leak when getting older. Professional guides wear one set of waders in a year.
I've had same problem with waders lasting. My best luck was actually with cheaper frogg togs.
There's an industry term for that, though I think I'm spelling it wrong, "Planned Obselences." If was originally introduced with household appliances; vacuums, refrigerators, water heaters, washers and dryers. Then it extended to other industries. Put a 5 year warranty on an item that, on average, will fail in 6 years. Build it in a way, that it'll last just beyond whatever warranty period is chosen. Many manufacturers will intentionally build a product, with a part that, when it fails, is just expensive enough, that replacement is cheaper than the fix.
I just experienced that very thing with a refrigerator. Luckily i'm retired and had the time and enough know-how to do a repair that cost me $60. To have it repaired would have likely run $400-$500 minimum. Planned obselences indeed !
Obsolescence programmée. Absolument.
Designed obsolescence. Daiwa does it with their reels, which are meant to last 3 seasons max before they’re replaced with the new model
I totally agree with you. I had a pair of high end neoprene waders. After 2 seasons of moderate fishing, the developed the rub leak. And, you don’t know the rub is till you are in the coldest water of the fishing season.
Spot on and it seems to be getting worse. Always loved simms waders, but their new G3 & G4 waders are paper thin compared to the old reliable ones from just a few years ago. We want thicker, warmer; longer lasting waders not $600 throw away ones
Agreed! My current G3s are junk compared to my old ones.
Agree! My favorite waders were the original guide waders from years ago. These lasted soo long I didn't need to look for new ones until the quality started to drop off. The new so called "guide classic" are no where near the same wader, I can't believe they are pretending they are the same
I have a $50 pair of garbage waders, with a little wax melted onto the seams. 8 years later, my garbage waders still work great.
Same here! I fish steelhead in the Midwest so I don’t care if they breathe (rubber waders are warmer). No way in hell am I paying 100s of $$ for something that lasts only a couple of years.
Love your reviews and topics that matter.
Personally I buy cheap waders and replace when needed. A $600, two season wader is not in my wheelhouse and agree they are built to fail.
Great post. I feel the same. I also use the same philosophy when buying rain jackets. I get 5yrs out of $30 Frogg Togg jackets while guys I know who have $200 jackets have to replace them over the same period.
@@rustyknott-W.Drain jackets have never failed me in the way he described waders failing. Ive ONLY seen High end rain jackets get ruined if people walk through a raspberry patch or gorse or sitting too close to a sparky fire.
rather put that into news lures and reel/rod setups. I have a pair of $90 2ply 420D nylon waders I've had for more than 15 years and somehow they are still going strong, no rips, no tears, no leaks and I've abused them in my adventures wading through the river, dropping off 7-10 ft drops on islands in water, sliding down ravines and steep hills in the bush, walking through thick brush, hopping over fallen trees etc etc
A friend told me the story of Caterpillar Inc. builders of heavy equipment. Their equipment was too well built and lasted too long so they switched to inferior materials -- reducing the equipment's life span and increasing sales for parts, services, new orders etc... It's the same for many industries too. For example, how long do today's kitchen appliances last vs 20 years ago...and so on... Thanks for the video...I'm thinking about buying cheap waders and wearing a wet suit underneath....
So it is with chainsaws 😢
I bought my first set of waders back in about 1974 or 75. Just out of grad school, and not a whole lot of income, I got a pair which were booted, thick-walled - and cheap. They are still holding up, in spite of stream fishing for steelhead and surf fishing for red tail perch. Heavy as all get out, cumbersome and not as "nice" as the expensive stuff I saw older (then) fishermen wearing, while they plied the waters with their expensive rods and reels or fly gear. Not sure if that makes any difference to the conversation; I have looked at the far lighter waders, but have never been able to justify the expense when what I have still works. And if that newer lighter stuff wears leaks quickly, it is even less of an incentive to change up. Oh, and the only time mine breathe is when I step out of them.
...I have had multiple brand name waders and have been fortunate with Orvis Products... I walk long distances through some heavy brush , wear them wade and drift fishing from a one man pontoon.... A few things I do practice... Hang them to dry as much as possible when fishing a few days back to back...and afterwards make sure to dry them thorougly... I also wear either Fleece or Soft Cotton lounging pants to avoid inside wear from rubbing.... I also found purchasing a size that allows easy bending or knelling to help..
As for Company Warranty's ?? When purchasing a pair of Waders it pays to know when they were manufactured..?? How long have they been In-Stock..It does come into play for warranty it seems.... Thank You.... Tight Lines // Dry Waders..
Google backcountry skinz
I've had the Dryft S14 for 3 years now. They probably get ~25 days of use mostly in the winter with some spring and summer on the Oregon coast. The wader material itself seems pretty stout. It has taken some thick brush, including blackberry, and more than a handful of falls with no leaks or holes. I did have to send my first pair back in due to leaking neoprene booties but Dryft was great and sent me a new pair. I was planning on trying Simms whenever these Dryfts give up the ghost but this video has me thinking twice.
stick with dryft 100% and support a small business my next pair will be dryfts only heard good things
dont do it Simms are now junk
Hopefully, the company's see this video and read the comments. That way they can get educated on their products. Personally they should last at least five years and not cost an arm and a leg.
110% accurate. Been thinking this for years and years after countless pairs of waders.
I've worked in a specialty fly shop for close to 10 years and have been flyfishing for 40. Aside from kneeling and brush, one of the deciding factors in your waders leaking is how you sized them when you tried them on. Most people want them to look like a pair of pants. If you can't high step in them with no binding, anywhere, you will stress the seams and seam tape and they will leak. The other major factor would be wearing jeans under your waders. Jean seams will wear out the tricot liner in most waders if you walk any appreciable distance. Size them baggier and wear running pants - they will last longer.
I worked in a fly shop for 10 years and special ordered mine to correct sizing. They still cut them for fat asses I guess
Could Not agree more, god it’s insane. The price of these things are crazy now. I refuse to spend more then 300 dollars on a pair now. I’ve been fishing for 20+ years and haven’t had a pair last more then 2 years. Was running G3’s and Redington’s the last few years both are beyond shot at 2 years old. Covered in aqua seal at this point and I’m still soaked.
I wonder if it would be a good option to just wear a dry suit but then have some kind of hook/thorn protection on top (loose wetsuit, broke waders, or something).
Looking at my fishing logs, I did 76 trips last year and have done 63 trips this year. The vast majority using my dry suit. My current pair of waders I got from Cabela's last October and they're already leaking a bit.
Edit: I've worn the Cabela's waders 17 times.
I used to duck hunt and wear Hodgeman canvas faced rubber waders. I hated them for warm water times of year fishing because they did not breathe at all, yet they were extremely durable as I would walk to ponds in woods through areas of briars/thorns and just tree branches beating them. They lasted 10 years until an exposed nail in a duck blind d poked a whole in them, but all I did was patch them. They wore in-between the thighs and crotch area just like you mentioned, but still lasted. They were just cumbersome and you needed to wear heavy soft fleece to make them comfortable.
Interesting you mentioned using your waders in a Kayak and pedaling. The breathable waders I used I would sometimes ride my mountain bike with them. The motion of my legs pedaling is not the same scissor type motion of walking. I have not tested this theory out, but just think if you walked in your dry suit as much as your waders (or vice versa), would the wear and tare be the same or at least similar. As I said, I don't know for sure, but I'm just putting that out there for consideration. Oddly enough my Hodgeman waders were less than a hundred bucks and literally took a beating. I just delt with their design but made it work. Unfortunately I would not recommend them for fishing which is primarily done in warmer times of the year.
Thanks for making this video. I’ve been looking into waders. As a guy on a budget I won’t feel like I’m wasting money on the less expensive brands/models when I pull the trigger to buy.
On a side note, you’re comment about Patagonia made me think of something. I’d love to see you do a video about the whole “hatchery vs wild” argument. I hear tons of opinions out there, but almost none of them educated. I’d love to hear someone like yourself come at it with science and statistics.
I'm ignorant on this. What's the argument about "hatchery vs wild"? Please educate me
@@kirkhuffstater5565Is fishing for stocked fish really fishing? Is it sporting to follow the hatchery truck? Are you a real man if you hoist out a dazed and confused old hatchery breeder, and put it on your stringer?
@@kirkhuffstater5565it’s like hunting on a ranch that breeds deer to be killed. You are going where there is 100% going to be game, the guides know where the game is at all times, the game is not shy, and your chances of success are excessively high. Basically, you’re “shooting fish in a barrel”. You don’t have to hunt at all. It’s handed to you. Same with fishing in a hatchery. There are excessive amounts of fish, and you know what type and where they’re going to be.
It’s like how you would set up a game for a child. You make it easier for them so they enjoy it. It’s the same here. Take the challenge out of it so these city guys can come give you money to say they did something over the weekend with low effort and high yield.
Google backcountry skinz
Failure point for me has been in the stocking foot, the neoprene just wears out from friction within my boots.
I’ve had some simms G3’s for three years now of hard use. I probably have ~200 days on them, lots of walking, lots of blackberry brush bashing. The key is to send them in for repairs each year. Simms will fix all pinhole leaks, reinforce seams, replace booties and pressure test the waders before sending them back. First ones free, $60 after that. Makes them last a lot longer and is worth it. Plus you can find them on sale from time to time. Paid 330 for mine.
I got mine on clearance because I'm a midget. Half price baby.
Good to know. I've never owned a pair of waders. I fish a lot. Been looking at different brands, now I know maybe spending more money isn't worthwhile. Do most of you use waders with boots integrated? Or waders then buy boots? Anyone have any advice on a decent pair that won't break the bank?
I personally haven't had seams etc burst on me. My main issue is the sole. Gets worn down to the point it leaks.
I'm hearing two things. Buy low cost waders. Or, buy a dry-suit, cut off the top, add suspenders!
I have sevral sets of simms. The lower end that are not goretex and I can see leaking I'm sure. But with my g 3s and g4s. I'm having zero issues with over 200 days a yr in each pair!! I fish the pnw and bust brush. If u use and good wash such as Nik wax. You will have a long life. Also hang dry them after each use. Washing goretex is a must to keep it working. Also when u buy the real good stuff it has a warranty if your the original owner.
I sold Simms for many years. The G3 and G4s definitely had the least issues of the models we sold. Freestones and Tributary models not so much. Simms warranty was generally good on the higher models but not always and I do feel they screwed over customers on a few occasions. We had many Patagonias returned for leaks but they were consistent about getting them replaced.
@@spiltmilt I have a older set of the g3s also and those bastards are bulletproof!!! I just after about 3 to 4 uses hit them in the tub with the nik wax and there tuts
I guess I'm old school. I've never wasted money on that stuff. I'm 73 years old and I've worn either shorts or jeans right into the water since I was a kid.
well unfortunately you can’t do that when the water gets into the 30s and 40s hypothermia is no joke
@@frostytrees609 if you're a man like tedd8055 you can
Yea right. I guess you’re not fishing in the fall 🤣
You couldn’t do that where I live in the middle of the summer for even two minutes I promise you must’ve lived in Florida or something
I tired waders years ago . Once I almost flooded them once . I never put them back on . If it’s too cold to be in the water, it’s too cold to be in the water
I have had the same problems, they al leak after awhile. Bill Wetzel the surf casting guide from L.I.had a similar video. Like yourself I am forced to use waders with an inseam longer than my legs and that has impacted both the wear and comfort. You put out good and well thought out content.
I have the same issue as you with the short 30" inseam. I recently bought a Pair from Cabelas and it was the Stout line of waders that have a shorter inseam. I am surprised how many companies have that one size fits all body style.
What is anti hatch
I am constantly pulling thorns out of my arms I can only assume if I bought waders they would leak my first couple outings. Is my logic wrong? I’m thinking high rain/dairy boots might be the best option.
Wow thats crazy. I have only owned one pair of waders and so far no leaks in them. I have a pair to Patagonia, bought 2019 and fished four seasons in them already. Your pairs look nice and clean almost like new. Mine are much harder worn it seems and still hanging in there. Wonder how long mine will go. Maybe you need to start a company and build waders out of the dry suit tech.
Anytime I’ve gotten a hole in my waders I figured out the best patch on accident. I use automobile gasket sealer. The stuff stays flexible and is durable. It doesn’t look pretty but be a man the goal is to catch fish not a fashion show.
My original Simms Guide waders were fished 200+ days with no leaks until we ran into submerged barbwire on Taylor River in Colorado. The next pair of Simms Guides and Orvis waders both leaked within a season. Now I have Frogg Toggs and Paramount. I take both pair on every trip, and have yet to have an issue. (Knock on wood.)
Hi bye inexpensive Cabela's waiters, and before I ever put them in the water, I seam seal, all of the seams and all of the wear spots that I have experienced over 40 years on the water. This seems to be the most economical way to deal with the waiter problem that you describe I get about 150 to 200 days on the water out of a pair of Cabelas waiters at half the price of the major brands. I haven't tried seem sealing the major brands before I wear them because I don't buy them.
Its all about the "price point", "profit margins" and "planned obsolescence".
Every user has a "price point". That is what they are willing to pay. That applies all the way through the market. As the cost of materials and labour go up the manufacturers try to maintain the price point thinking that if the cost goes up the buyer will go "no thanks" and look elsewhere. They maintain the price point and their profit margin by lowering material and production costs. So overtime the production quality of waders at every price point will get worse whenever the cost of labour and materials go up.
I will point out that companies do not make more profit by selling you waders every ten years. They make more profit by selling your new waders every three years.
There is a constant battle between reputation, quality and profit. So this is "planned obsolescence". Your waders are made to fail at a certain point. It's all dependent on how a manufacturer decides to place itself in the market. From premium to cheap and nasty.
The world wide economy is suffering at the moment so I am expecting a drop in production quality across many, many goods in order to maintain profit margins. Waders are not immune to these issues.
I don't fish with waders but I sail a lot in the cold months and my current drysuit lasted 4 years before I sold it to my friend which he is still using. It ran me $600 but has held up fine. I'd recommend Gill if anyone is looking for a drysuit since they use neoprene gaskets which are in my opinion a lot more comfortable and durable than the latex ones. Sandiline also makes a really good drysuit.
What are your thoughts on switching to dry bibs instead of waders? Not only for the durability but I noticed many of them have a neoprene waste belt which seems much safer to me.
I dont much use waders but I'd wonder just for kicks whether or not a altertered dry suit could last longer than a set of waders. Someone who alters cloths could easily remove the sleeves, change the cut and add a set of suspenders to a dry suit.
Well, it's comforting to know that at least I'm not the only one...I don't feel that I do anything excessive to wear these products out but waders and wading boots seem to be my nemeses.....I feel that I care for my gear reasonably well, yet I feel lucky to get a season out of either waders or boots- to the point that I've stopped buying boots at all and just use Chucks, or the same sandals I wear for wet wading in summer ( Tevas, Chacos)...
Interesting video. Have you done any videos on wader repair? I’d be interested in that
I will post one up soon
@@spiltmilt, Hi I hope this message finds you since this video is a year old, Anyway I've checked all the comments and haven't seen anyone mention,
High N Dry wader's.
They redesigned how wader's are made, by putting the seam on the outside of the legs instead of through the crotch!
They (two buddy's) were featured on
Outdoor GPS.
Really enjoy your channel! Thank You.
Manufacturers could easily improve quality and durability, but they won't. Getting a constant stream of new purchases is their goal. I've tried a number of brands and every single pair have leaked. I've mostly owned Simms, but the quality is really terrible now, so currently I am wearing Vision and one year with those, no leaks, yet...
I’m on my 3rd pair of waders in 3 years. First pair were Patagonia’s, lasted about 14months. Next pair Orvis Pro’s, lasted 18 months. Now on my 3rd pair, Orvis Pro’s again. I fish 50 plus days a year, year round. I’m out in summer’s heat and briars and winter’s snow & cold. Agree, sometimes I think there is obsolescence built in. A dry suit’s not a bad idea! Not sure where I’ll go next time. Maybe Simms.
Tony
Dang i feel your pain
I have $160 redingtons (that are great) and $900 simms g4’s. Because my local fly shop only ever had mediums simms for me to try on, I had to blindly order size Large in the g4’s. Well they fit like skinny jeans and I dread the process of taking them off after fishing. I know one of these times I am going to hear the unmistakable ripping sound of a seam loosening or actually tearing. Also I bought them through a friend (long story, combined orders) so I don’t really even have a proper receipt if I tried to warranty them. I really appreciate my redingtons more now
If drysuits have held up much better why not use drysuit bibs instead? Kokatat NRS and others make drysuit bibs that have the same coverage as waders and are more versatile as you could add a dry top so you wouldn't need to buy a drysuit and waders.
I could at the same time the drysuit bibs lack a lot of the key features I really want in my waders.
I think overall the point you are making is valid which is that waders are a consumable item that are not lasting as long as they should for the price, but a few thoughts:
1 - I would guess the motion of hiking in the waders creates more abrasion than the pedaling motion in a kayak. Having done both (walk in waders and pedal in a dry suit), there's a lot more "swishing" when walking in waders than when I pedal my Hobies. Hiking in waders seems to me the #1 cause of premature wear of waders. Something i have done to keep my duck hunting waders around longer is to not hike into the blind in them as much as I can (I also do that to not overheat). I would wager that if you were were not hiking miles in fishing waders that they would last a bit longer. I would also guess that your dry suits probably have more pin hole leaks than you normally realize since you aren't typically subjecting them to constant submergence.
2 - From what I understand, breathable fabrics/membranes have essentially zero stretch. As such, if they are bit tight, you will really pull on the seams which is an easy way to cause premature leakage. So it is important to make sure the fabric is abit looser in those areas (like knees) so that you move within the wader rather than stressing the seams. Problem is, loose fabric = abrasion wear. Seems like companies could add reinforcements in key areas (like a lot of fishing dry suits are) to help there. They could also just make the face fabric in the 3 layer construction a higher weight to improve durability. This would add weight to the wader, but if done in key areas it could help with durability (I have seen this in some jackets, like an Arcteryx I have where they use heavier face fabric on the shoulders and elbows where you see wear from backpacks and brushing into things).
3 - If I recall, these days you aren't the biggest fan of Kokatat these days, but have you tried their line of bibs (essentially stocking foot waders)? It looks like Level 6 and NRS also make a similar bib/wader.
4 - I don't think I saw it mentioned in the video, but in your opinion, what is a reasonable life for waders? I think measuring in trips is a bit hard just because 1 trip could mean hop out of the car and walk to the river or 1 trip could be a 3 mile hike each way.
Where did you find a Kokatat dry suit for 300 bucks
Kids sizes actually fit small women better and cost significantly less
For me, the biggest single issue in wader longevity I noticed was switching to wet wading during the late spring, summer, and fall. I wear the neoprene socks, and when the water is colder in the late spring and fall, I wear a .5mm neoprene swim pant under my quick dry pants.
That being said, I don't spend more than $300 on waders either, my current pair of G3's I got for 60% off because they only had that size remaining and it was the last pair of the old camo pattern. Unfortunately, you have to kind of treat waders as 50 fishing day items...
My G3 lasted 2 seasons. Major leak in the material. Sent them in for evaluation, after months past I received an email stating that the material lasted it's life expectation and nothing they were going to do. Before I could reply, the first email was followed up with a second email with a UPS tracking information sending them back to me. It's unfortunate when they got bought out their reputation as one of the world leaders in waders went with it. Just doesn't make sense that the price point goes through the roof, quality lacks, and customer support hides behind some big corporate lawyers nonsense.
This was what happened to me with Orvis.
Sorry to hear that. I wish I could give you some advice on a different wader company. I think you are on to something with a wet suit company making waders. I would happily pay $1000.00 if I could get what I paid for.
are you saying i should dry suit for kayaks over waders?
No I’m saying wader mfgs need to do better
Tyler, I think you're both spending too much and expecting too much. I purchased a pair of Simms Zip up the front waders and after 4 years they began to leak. I sent them back to Simms for repair and was pleased when they said they couldn't be repaired at the seam and sent me a brand new pair! Wow! Out of warranty! That's darn good customer service. So, learning my lesson, I decided to buy less expensive waders in the $125 range and have been really pleased with my new Reddingtons not leaking after 5 years of use mainly in the salt for Oregon surf perch as well as in the Deschutes, Wilson and Necanicum for steelhead. What I've learned about waders is don't spend too much, take extra good care of them and just expect failure, usually fixable by yourself, after 4 years or so. Good video Tyler. Hope to see you on the Willamette next spring! Tight lines, Mark in Portland
I only get maybe 2-3 trips before my waders get holes in them. I’ve owned 5 pairs in the last 2 years. I don’t know what I’m doing wrong
I have been on the fence for quite some time about buying waders, and believe me I have looked at them all. I finally considered some called DRYFT from a company north of Seattle. But now after watching this video I will probably pass on those too. Thanks for saving me $500.
4 years of heavy use in my Dryft Primos with no problems. Haven't had to use their warranty but I've heard it is above the best.
I ended up with a pair Dryft. One year in no leaks.
When I started fishing 40 years ago I was a kayaker. And I would just use my neoprene Farmer John's because I couldn't afford waiters too. They worked great for years and years. They had some holes in there but I was always warm. And if I got too hot I could just roll the top down. When I got my first pair of neoprene waders they seemed so much more clunky.
I came across those farmer johns in the garage the other day. I don't think they could stretch far enough to fit now. Haha
I've recently purchased a pair of Dryft waders. Been out once so far. I've heard good things about these folks. Priced less than Simms. I feel like any wader you buy they will eventually leak. Especially around the neoprene boot seams. That gets me every time! I think Dryft adds an extra seam to their products.
I have Caddis, in about 2 years they started leaking in a couple of spots...I fish way less then Tyler here...since then been just dealing with that...fixed leaks once, lasted a trip or two and back to leaking...
Luckily my Orvis clearwater waders have been great. I bought them when I moved to the mountains so I could do field work during my MS Biology (fishery focused program). I bought these in 2021 and they are still holding up great today and I am rough on my stuff. I have been out in the "field" for my MS research many hours and days in addition to all the fishing I do. Currently, I've been fishing probably 3 times a week and probably over 100 trips this year. I am surprised how well they have held up especially since I am shorter too. Which means I sometimes have to slide down banks or over the tops of logs etc. During this time I have been through two sets of boots and I have just now bought some Korkers. My Orvis Pro boots only lasted a little under a year before I had to start gluing them back together with Barge Cement. I even had a local cobbler glue them back together and it only took two trips before they were coming apart again if that tells you anything about how well I durability test my items.
Like many others here, I get failures mostly in the booties. I have begun wearing waterproof stockings (pants too) whenever I am in waders. That way, if there are small leaks, the water never touches my skin. I can always extend my wader use that way. Have never bought an expensive pair as it has always been the opinion that those don't last any longer. I can get up to three seasons with mine but I don't fish as much as you guys. I am in waders maybe 30 times a year.
Went through two pairs of stocking foot waders while steelheading all week on a trip. Of course my feet started to go numb when the water starting leaking in slowly. At this point I feel like fishing out of boats more with muck boots on and regular pants with all weather bibs. I will only wade in the summer months when its more fun anyways. I loved my Steelheader titaniums before they died.
been fly fishing 2 years. I've had 2 pairs of waders leak. Both of them Redington XRs, or whatever the 500 dollar wader is called. I fish about 30 times a year, very disappointed in them. THAT SAID, they all are made in china in the same factory. There is nothing special about a Orvis, vrs Redington, vrs Simms. They all are made in the same Chinese factories by the same 12 year old kids, and are designed to fail. Damn right they are! they are designed to fail so you have to buy more crap, Its forced obsolescence, it effects ALL INDUSTRY! Consumerism, the lightbulb conspiracy for sure.
I think it’s a hit or miss thing I’ve hade several pairs of Simms G-3 waders and have gotten hundreds of day of us out of them without an issue. I had a pair where I wore the neoprene boot out and they replaced it for a charge , one thing I have noticed is warranties say they will do a lot but when it comes down to it they don’t or in cases like Simms it takes three to 4 weeks to get them repaired which is not acceptable when you in the middle of the best spring or fall fishing when you really need them .
I had a pair of Simms G3’s for 20 years and the next pair I bought lasted 3 years. I’m honestly thinking the heat of my garage in the summer is what ruined my last pair.
One thing I’ve noticed about the G3s is that the early models were tanks. So much so as I’d recommend them to everyone. My fishing partner has 8 years on his without a leak 1. However, in the last 4 years I’ve seen a common trend with people buying the G3s and they ALL have leaked within the first 3 trips out. One was so bad on the first trip out I thought my friend was just mistaking sweat for a leak but when he dumped out his leg it was full of river water.
I had similar experiences with the Simms headwaters. I bought a pair in 2012 and just retired them in 2021. I wish they still made them the same
Totally agree. I know a guy in fishing retail, lot’s of complaints on breathable waders, no brand lasts. That’s why we use the cheap rubber waders that are non breathable and cut very wide, they are really cheap (longterm test is ongoing) My kayak dry suit also lasts great and I bought it second hand.
All waders are made in China ...Simms , Patagonia , Orvis , Redington etc. I do not spend more than 200$ for my waders .
Really interesting video.
I fish out of a boat most often. I own a set of cheap set of Allen waders that are mostly used when fishing out of my small pontoon on no motor lakes. I probably only have 15 days of walking rivers on these waders as when it is warm out I just wet wade.
I expect the lower end outer wear to leak after time but I did not expect the more expensive brands to fail so quickly.
I've got the same problem with the inseam size. I've got a long torso and shorter legs so the Large Short size fit my legs almost perfectly but then the torso is too short and it's confining if I need to bend or crouch. On the other end the regular size fit perfectly in the body but bunch up in the legs and then they rub and wear out. For this reason I don't spend more than 250$ on waders because I know I'll be replacing them once every year or two. That said I get my moneys worth because I fish a lot. I grew up surfing so for the surf fishing I do now I often just wear a wetsuit and neoprene booties which last for years compared to waders. I spent $180 on a rip curl wetsuit 4 years ago and it's still going strong. It is a lot safer to wade in the ocean in a wetsuit too. that said I understand that wearing a wetsuit isn't ideal for all fishing situations. Regarding which waders I've found to be the best after trying Orvis, Reddington, and Patagonia in the past... Simms Freestone seem to be the best balance of durability and cost effectiveness in my experience.
Whwn needed, I've been going to Academy and picking a pair of their Magellan pro waders every summer when they go on Clearence for 50% off. They're decent waders and come down to $75. I usually get around 100 trips on them before any issues.
I bought a pair of dryft this year and they se well made. I bought them because my nephew is tough on his gear and they hold up. Caddis waders for the price lasted for 3 years and bought a new pair of hodgeman. They are tough but out of business now I think. Simms does make nice warm items but as said 700.00 is ALOT for 3 years use. Have also found inexpensive waders honor warranties well into the purchase. I do like the dryft and also purchased last years rain jacket for 150.00 new it's 350.00 plus dryft plants a tree for every purchase. They have the BEST customer service as well . Thanks for the vids! Time to get ready for early Steelie trip! Cheers gentlemen.👍🎣🎣🎣💯
I started with some cheap neoprene waders (
What’s your thought about kayaking pants or bibs as an alternative to fishing waders?
I've tried some but found they didn't have the same range of motion as waders.
40 years ago my Dad bought my brother and me each a pair of Cabelas 330 Cordura waders. Those were incredibly rugged. Wore them when rabbit hunting through all kinds of thorns. Lost them so tried to find the same. They use much heavier Cordura now. I liked the light weight and certainly didn't need heavier to resist tears. I would still recommend looking for a Cordura pair. Mine lasted 20 years of heavy use before I lost them probably when moving.
That was because they were then mad in the USA !
I am using $100-140 breathable stocking foot waders - the best has been the Cabelas with a zipper, now going on 12 uses. One problem surfaced at 10 uses - the elastic cord at the top pulled into the sleeve. Now, most of the time I am using them to launch and recover a duckboat, minimal walking around streambanks. So with your information, I will just keep going with what I have. The waders you describe cost way more than my shotgun and waders combined. The drysuit comparison is interesting, never considered them as an alternative. I have used a lot of neoprene waders for work, fishing and hunting and still have 3. They need to be a little oversize or they will open up in the crotch area.
Have you heard of backcountry skinz? I saw these on TH-cam and I am wondering if they are any good.
I haven't heard about that company but the concept is very familiar. In fact wet wading using a combination of neoprene pants and waterproof socks is the preferred wading configuration for many Japanese anglers because their streams often require long distances of hiking and bouldering to fish. At the same time most of their streams close during the winter months and I often see them using waders during the colder months.
What about a wetsuit? Might that be a good choice for river fishing?
You are right, they all will leak sooner then you expected. Buy cheap one and if it won't leak the first year - that is typical the warranty period, then stick with the brand. I am happy with any brand that last 2-3 years with a patching kit.
Simms G3 and G4’s I’ve had for year. Normal maintenance as recommended per the manufacturer, has helped mine last. I do not work for simms or get any benefits from them.
I use a “short” in both as I’m a 29.5” inseam and no holes.
I spend 50-60 days per year on water in waders.
Thanks
I need a new pair...my dryft waders gave out after about 2 years. I'm nervous spending the money on some new simms now that they got bought out. I'm not sure what I'm gonna do.
That's a bummer to hear. For everyone who claims their Dryft waders are bulletproof I run across someone like you had a leak develop within 2 years.
Contact dryft. they have great customer service! They took care of mine that were 3yrs old
I would contact them as well. They should try to make it right.
I think it's time to speak with a drysuit manufacturer and see if they would be willing to build a wader prototype.
What would be the cost though? Even if they guaranteed to never leak or free replacement, I don’t see myself paying $1200 up front for waders. I paid that for my dry suit, but that will save my life. Just my first thought. I do think they have the technology to do it
Regarding warranty, I will say that Dryft is great. They shipped me new waders within a few hours of emailing them, no questions asked. Just had to send my damaged ones back and they even paid the return shipping.
That is good to hear.
Agreed. Great customer service. My primo zip fronts needed repair at the zipper and inside one of the pockets after 3yrs. And they sent me the brand new model!
I gave up on expensive waders. I was going to buy a new pair and patch the same area from new so it would wear the patch first but I just purchased a cheap pair to test so far they have lasted longer. They are not as nice fitting and a lot heavier but still dry. My cheap $50 pair is still going strong 3 years later and I fish all year around. They must be about 2cents a fish and still going strong.
Totaly agree ive had lots of waders bought a pair of top end waders and they leaked first hour of use as you said they all leak.
Depending on the times of the year you fish, have you considered wearing a surfing wet suit? You will remain warm, but wet at the end of the day. I've watched the Japanese Tenkara fishermen and women use what I think are wet suit pants when they hike to their fishing destination and make many stream crossings. I've asked them what they are wearing in the best way I could. They replied and I figured that they are wearing wet suit pants for their hikes and creek crossings. There is now a company called Wader Skins that make them. Check them out.
I fish in the winter a lot
full rubber feet or fabric feet on dry suit what is your preference? and why do you think they do not do full neoprene feet on dry suits in the first place, would be more durable no? . own dry suit with the exception of getting out of it beats waders any day
I've always been curious about this too. You almost never see neoprene feet on drysuits. I am not sure why. I don't think its necessary but the added warmth in cold water wading is nice.
Very happy with my Vision Koski waders. I bought them in late 2020 and they are still going strong. I do try to take good care of them though. I use them in salt water exclusively and always rinse and dry them after use. At €200/$235 back then they were very reasonably priced but I'm sure the price has gone up since 2020.
Are those drysuits waterproof or water resistance?
Waterproof
Great vid, Thank you. All great points and could not agree more the industry does seem to make the products for "job security" not product longevity. I live on the east coast , fish lake Ontario and tribs through the fall and a lot of the time it's bush wracking to get to other spots, last pair of waders I threw away was patched with silicone over 14 times. Not everyone can afford 200 to $ 500 every other season for waders. My nxt pair will prob be a dry suit.
I buy the mid priced Simms and I usually get 5 seasons before a leak. I’ve taken to just simply going over the seams with aqua seal to begin with, if anything, for the added peace of mind.
I wade inshore saltwater. No freshwater stuff. My question and complaint is about wading jackets. Why and how does an uninsulated, glorified rain jacket cost 150-600 dollars?
Have you looked at some of the dry suit company bibs like mustang taku dry bibs or the level 6 breakwaters? Im wondering if they'd hold up better
I tried the Breakwater. The cut was all wrong and really restricted my mobility. I returned it.
Sadly Tyler, many, many, many things today are engineered to fail as opposed to being engineered to last. My wife and I have been buying shell jackets for over 25 years made by Arcteryx and they've never failed. We wear them snowshoeing and hiking (buskwhacking through berry bushes, beech saplings; we rarely use an actual trail), mountain biking, kayaking, etc. and in more than 30 years we've never torn one or had a hole develop despite routinely hearing the sound of twigs and bramble scraping across them as well as the occasional scrape with granite. The jackets are made of multi-layer GoreTex with welded seams; similar to what high end waders are made with. We have to reapply DWR 2-3 times per year after we wash them but they still bead water like a freshly waxed car. The jackets are not cheap (average around $6-$700) but I've got one that I've had for 15 years that has no holes, no fraying at the cuffs, no tears, etc. and we're in the woods all the time either hiking, snowshoeing or mountain biking. I've only owned one pair of waders about 10 years ago and they lasted 2 seasons and then leaked...I got so annoyed at the prospect of having to buy them again that I never did. I absolutely agree with your assessment of the situation.
You nailed. I have a ton technical garments that get far more beat-up that last for far longer with minimal maintenance. Big fan of Arcteryx as well.
I only get a season or two before my waders start leaking in the foot area 😢
I had my pair of reddington waders for 5 years and they finally sprung a leak last weekend. I used aquaseal on all of the foot seams and it seems to be holding up well so far. Don't buy new ones if you can repair your old ones folks
I have a pair of cheap wathers, got wet inside on first day use but not sure if from water getting in on chest area since I was deep in water; will see next time. Honestly I don't wear wathers to stay dry, I do because they give me a sence of safety when in the water from anything specially sting rays. I always use the ones with boot. But this page as made me realize that those expensive wathers I was considering to buy to actually stay completely dry also fail so will stick with lower end ones.
Sounds sort of like golf clubs, in a way. You can spend $2,000 on top of the line clubs, like the youngster I played with earlier this week, or you can look for deals, like the $12 driver and the $5 woods and the $3 irons I bought over the last couple years at Goodwill. The wader manufacturers know that wader buyers tend to have more money than most people; if you don't, they aren't going to lose a lot of money not selling to you because you can't/won't spend a lot of money for their overpriced products. There are enough wealthy folks they can fleece. Sort of like the skiing industry, where the big players like Vail buy up the good local mountains like Stevens Pass, then double the daily ticket price because there are plenty of people who will pay that much.
The biggest problem is you cant get them custom so you dont have the correct fit. My inseam is 30 and the extra fabric is the curse. I have called customer service at Simms to ask if I could pay to have them tailored and they will not. My buddys fit perfect and he gets twice the wear
Ultimately this is why I went with Dryft because of the sizing. Fingers crossed I get more than a season or two out of them
Yeah I honestly have never had a good pair of waders. No matter what brand I've tried they've all leaked at some point. I even had a pair of Hodgman's that leaked right out of the box. At this point I've basically decided to just buy cheap waders and replace them when I have to, I've discovered buying expensive ones doesn't even really make a difference. It's not a matter of if your waders are going to leak, it's a matter of when.
There are two kinds of waders.
Those that leak and those that are going to leak. No way around this fact. Learn to repair and patch them or pay out the A.
Vision koski 4 layer are a bulletproof wader.
I'm heavy (115kg) and do a lot of hiking in them, so I always use (and replace) vision neoprene socks over my wader booties AND buy the boots a size larger to allow for the extra foot bulk.
In the last 4 years of heavy and frequent Gorge fishing with heavy undergrowth and climbing required, only now (70 fishing days and over 500km) are my waders beginning to show vag signs of bootie wear.
I believe I'll get at least another 2 seasons before I have to start reinforcing the booties with Aquaseal.
I have found that the more sand and grit you can keep out of your boots, the longer the sock will wear, so avoid those boots that think drain holes are a selling point- they also let the rubbish in to create friction and wear on your precious socks/booties.
Korean made. Interesting.