How supercharged tactical voting could get rid of Tory MP for the first time in 100 years
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ต.ค. 2024
- Totnes is well known for its independent streak.
When Costa tried to open branch, residents chased them out of town, for fear it would affect the independent cafe on the high street.
It’s become so well known for embracing alternative lifestyles that Time magazine once declared it the capital of new-age chic.
There are plenty of alternate belief systems - but one new one is taking hold.
Some people here who think progressive voters could put party loyalties aside and work together to make sure South Devon elects someone other than a Conservative.
Wacky huh?
Ed Campbell went to meet the South Devon Primary to find out more.
Reporter: Ed Campbell
Camera: Harry Ainsworth
Subscribe to our new podcast now, or you're a silly goose:
linktr.ee/pubcast
I’m voting tactically in my constituency. Lib Dem this time.
I will continue to vote tactically until PR is adopted.
Even then if a Single Transferrable Vote is adopted we can vote for our first choice and prevent the disastrous choice.
By voting "tactically" you ensure you will never get PR! 🤡
Gosh, that'll rattle Westminster
Me too, I've held my nose and voted SNP today just to kick out the Tories
Same here, normally I'd vote Green or Lib Dem but I've had to go Labour because of tactical voting
If enough people vote libdem they could knock the conservatives out of opposition.
Having the libdems as opposition would push labour further left instead of the usual Tory rightwing bs. 🤔
It would make a refreshing change not to have to listen to that bs for a while!
It would also dramatically reduce the Tories ability to speak in parliament and on TV.
They'd just agree on everything. Kind of defeats the point of an 'opposition'
@@verdebritanica how refreshing that would be 🙏
@@StarFlatinum well if they agree on social housing and fixing the nhs and rejoining the single market that would be fantastic 👍 I would rather have labour agree to a more left wing opposition than agree to a right wing government!
@@timwoodger7896 chicken voting for christmas you are
Weird that the Tory MP thinks that people deciding who to vote for is socialism, not quite sure that relates to the workers owning the means of production. Almost as if he doesn't know what he's on about 🤔
The Tory just wants the opposition to split its vote, thus enabling him to win under FPTP. The Tories love FPTP. It enables them to form governments with MASSIVE majorities on less than 35 per cent of the vote.
@@AndriyValdensius-wi8gw Not any more.
@ArtyFactual_Intelligence
FPTP can deliver a massive majority for one party one time, then a massive majority for the opposition next time, all on a relatively small vote percentage. It's in the nature of the beast.
A Tory not knowing what they are on about?
Well I never.
Anything which can express the will of the people as opposed to the will of the establishment is "socialism", apparently
When a third of the vote gives u a safe seat, it tells u, how undemocratic FPTP is!
Yep, it is, vote tactically, put the Tories in 3rd. Make Lib Dems the opposition.
And when PR gives UKIP most British seats in the EU but no seats at Westminster? Europe is rife with extremist populist parties elected under PR, the like of which have no foothold in Westminster. Be careful what you wish for.
And 10% is Ok if you voters are loonie enough to contemplate the Reformed Chicken Nugget Party
Well, hope you have time to learn about undemocratic Maori seats in New Zealand. And the "ranked voting" in Australia that ensures at the end of the day, either Labor or Liberal duopoly gets the seat. Regardless of whether you think neither of the 2 should win.
the UK was given a chance to get rid of FPTP but they voted against it, so yeah it's democratic even though FPTP itself is an outdated system
Gosh! That gentleman is such a good speaker, more of him please
Great idea. Either give the voters proper proportional representation or this will happen more and more.
NOT PR. Single Transferrable Vote.
Yes exactly what we’re planning. We’re proving the model now and will be ready to share it for free with groups in remaining ‘safe’ Tory seats next election.
@@ArtyFactual_IntelligenceSTV is a form of PR.
Zero seats for the tories campaign
All the seats for Reform
@@arcan762 reform is a joke party, glad they're not winning
@@arcan762 they're winning 5 at most, only 1 more than the greens.
@@arcan762Reform will get very few, if any seats.
Oh yes Please !
It's a damning indictment on FPTP that people have to resort to voting against a party rather than for a party. I don't blame the people, I blame the quirks of the system for pushing them towards this.
Proportional Representation has its own drawbacks but on balance it's superior to FPTP.
While not as prevalent there is still tactical voting in proportional election systems. Often you have a party you prefer but you know they most likely won't be part of the coming government, so you instead give more weight to one of those parties that likely will.
With less than 24 hours before the polls open, I am supremely confident in Rishi Sunak's ability to fuck this up even worse.
Thanks for the laugh, it's very much needed. ❤
Hahaha!
He's already managed to squeeze an antisemitism stink under the Tory belt - impressive, given their record of whining about Labour on the issue.
Vote out to help out
Shrug. Good luck Britain, but I'll wait till the votes are counted. I voted for the first time 40 years ago, and I've learnt to never underestimate the left's ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. J
Proportional representation is the way to go to give everyone a voice
For a moment, I thought it had been the same Tory MP for 100 years. Then I remembered that Jacob Rees Mogg is far more ancient, and it's not him.
Dunno about you, but I wanna see the back of the Tories for good. I've got my Tory wipeout bingo chart and a big red marker pen. I'm hoping for ZERO Tory seats tomorrow.
I'm with this concept!
A long-established party disappearing is always a double ed-ged sword. It may herald a rejuvenation of politics just as it may herald a worse party take its place.
@@Nickname-ef9tv that would be reform then. Much as I hate the tories the rise of reform would be worse.
@@Nickname-ef9tv Do you mansplain to women too? I'll take my chances. BTW, "edged" is not hyphenated, and your second sentence is a shambles. Did you fall across your keyboard?
@@Facts_vs_Opinion
Anything else you'd like to whine about this evening?
Very proud of my little town of Totnes. Full of articulate and intelligent people not blinded by populist rhetoric. Well done Simon and co. for organising the primary !
Proportional representation argument is stronger than ever. The Gallagher index is extremely high at this election standing at around a predicted 28 units. This election will be hugely disproportionate and undemocratic. It's time for electoral reform NOW and fast already... STV would be nice. Lib dems is our hope for PR... lets get them in as the official opposition, vote tactically! And that might mean voting Labour instead of Lib dems, check in your constituency.
Problem with PR is that you pretty much know the result a couple of hours after the polls close. I miss waiting up all night for the results from obscure polling booths in the middle of nowhere that can swing electorates and elections one way or another.
@@donrobertson4940 that really isn't a problem compared to the vast unfairness and lack of true democracy with FPTP. If that is your argument against PR it shows how weak FPTP voting is as a democratic instrument.
You can judge a society by the way it treats its libraries.
Libraries in 2024? 😅
We have lots of libraries in Devon! The Conservative led Devon County Council hasn't closed any libraries since at least 2010.
The Reform bunch can’t read anyway, massive savings for them to be made there.
@@arcan762 it's still important to have a place to read and socialise you know? infact, i think we should make it mandatory for people to visit the library atleast once a month.
@@arcan762 In York, the Lib Dem-led council invested in its libraries from 2019-2023, diversifying them, and opening 2 new ones and replacing 2 old ones with modern buildings. The Council had set up a trust called Explore to run them in 2014. It's operation was described as a "model for others" by an inspection team.
Then in 2023, Labour took control. Their first act was to slash £300000 off the library budget.
You can't trust Labour.
I think whoever pulled together the tactical voting nation-wide strategy in Great Britain is probably going to prove to be the Tories worse nightmare.
What a great team of people working together to oust Anthony Mangnall
Thank you - it’s a huge team effort with hundreds of volunteers from all parties and none
My concern is the backlog in hospital appointments caused by Tory supporters requiring an endoscopy to check them for brains.
A colonoscopy surely? 😂
@@ffotograffydd That's where they will locate the cranial matter.
@@ArtyFactual_Intelligence 🤣🤣🤣👍
Come on everyone. Use your vote, and vote tactically. Get Tories down to 3rd place. 🙏
I am glad to see that the share of vote for Labour has dropped by five per cent and the share for Lib Dems has risen by the SAME percentage, as people in the Blue Wall change their electoral intentions to a tactical vote for the removal of Tory Scum. This has happened only since the calling of the election.
this is a great solution unti we get PR
Thank you 🙏
Stop The Tories dot Vote
Pass it on.
Is there a party that plans to eat the rich?
Vote for those, the rest are old wine in new sacs.
No Torys and No Reform would leave the country an infinitely better place.
Torys yes
Yes. Reform are just for the terminally thick.
Reform are our only hope to stem the tide
or even no any of them. Complete change needed
@@arcan762who Nigel "Canute" Frogage?
Impressive. If this is the only way we can get these Tories turned near Fascists out, so be it. At 82 this is by far the worst Government I have ever seen.
At 82, I would expect you to have a better understanding about what fascism really is.
@@davidgaskin5417 Fascism just means "anything I don't like at the moment" 😅
@@davidgaskin5417 - She said “near Fascists”, not fascist. They not there yet, but they are merrily trodding down that road though …
@@globalhikingcr No, they seriously are not. If you want near fascism - lets see what Labour pull out of their backside in the coming years...
Good luck totnes!
Thanks :)
Excellent work by the team in Totnes. If the party HQs don't get their acts together and give us a better voting system, this kind of thing is going to happen more and more across the country. I hope all MP's get as shirty about it as the Tory git down there did.
Hear hear. We certainly intend to help make that happen :)
I love watching Ed nod during interviews
The last time there was a non Tory mp in my seat was 92 years ago. Total farce.
I live just over the bridge on the opening shots. I've voted Lib Dem by post as it's the option to oust the Tories. I don't have a strong allegiance to either Labour or the Lib Dems so would have been happy to support either.
Caroline seems a really solid person, she's local, a friend know her dad and I think she'll be an excellent constituency MP. This election is about a change of direction from Tories only in it for themselves to a government in it to serve the country. Labour & Lib Dems are aligned in that they want the best for the majority even if they disagree about some of the details.
Ultimately I'd like to see electoral reform so politics becomes more genuinely representative & those in power have to work to form a consensus & move beyond adversarial politics.
I'd welcome a significant Labour win but a landslide by any party really only shows how bad the system is.
Well done PR Voting 🗳️ please NOW 🇵🇸🇵🇸🙌🙏💚
the problem in the UK is not only the electoral voting system at the moment also that too many people are sturbon and uneducated. tactical voting is for example for many on the left an impossible task even they know that to vote liberal or green would make an alternative to the Tories a seat winnable.
The biggest problem is younger people not voting so policies are lopsided against them.
If voting was mandatory young people had to vote and not just the boomers and pensioners, the political needle would swing left.
The first man interviewed wearing the glasses is incredibly articulate, his opinions are exactly like mine, there might be two difference I'm poor and he strikes me as well off and educated.
I might be foolish? But I have faith in the good people of the UK.
That’s very kind of you. I am lucky to be comfortably off and think I should be one of those paying more tax. It’s a national disgrace that we live in a country where children and going hungry, people can get dental care and others live on the street.
@@simonoldridge Hi Simon I was just being honest.
The SNP took 300,000 children out of poverty in Scotland by getting rid of the two child benefit cap and giving each child £25 a week extra, costing about two billion. In the same time period England and Wales saw an increase in child poverty of about the same amount.
Now we have Keir Starmer and the retaining of the two child benefit cap,this is most telling! Angela Rayner, The Deputy Leader of the Labour Party was on state welfare! Yet she agrees with the benefit cap,because of this I didn't vote Labour. I'm currently reading Shattered Nation: Inequality and the Geography of A Failing State by Danny Dorling. The facts presented are heartbreaking. I believe we can come together and build a more equitable society for everyone,especially the coming generations.
@@simonoldridgemuch respect for giving your opinions, I also agree with a lot of what you were saying
@@flyingrat492 Thank you 🙏
Splitters!
PR got us Brexit. UKIP never got a seat by election at Westminster under FPTP, but got most British seats under PR in Brussels, from where it leveraged the Brexit referendum. Be careful what you wish for.
PR works, extreme parties might win a few seats, but never enough to do any damage. FPTP favours the Conservatives.
@@ffotograffydd FPTP favours the party with most support, be they Conservative or not. Whether you meant to or not, the fact that you single out the Conservatives makes it look as though you have an agenda other than representative fairness.
The right wing nationalist bloc in the EU Parliament hold about 10% of seats. These are the equivalent of the BNP or EDL, neither of which have ever got remotely near winning a seat at Westminster. PR gave them their opening across Europe and currently they are growing.
Electoral reform has already triggered the law of unintended consequences by aiding the emergence of UKIP's MEPS. That is why I say be careful of what you wish for.
@@markaxworthy2508 But which party has it favoured the most? How many Conservatives governments have we had in the past 100 years? And only once did they get more than 50% of the vote.
@@markaxworthy2508 I’ve singled out the Conservatives because they are the party that has benefitted most from the FPTP system. There have been times in the past where the Conservatives actually got more seats whilst not getting the largest share of the over all vote. FPTP has never been fair, it failed often even when there were only two parties.
@@ffotograffydd Again, that is a party political point, not one of principle.
Under the coalitions PR usually throws up, absolutely nobody gets what they voted for. All electoral systems have limitations. It is just a matter of choosing your favourite compromised voting system.
I believe that failure to govern comes down to ideological infighting, so I'd rather Labour gets a big majority and have a stable government
Man, Ed is really giving sleeper build in this video
We could have voted tactically many decades ago. We are slow learners.
I think the lib dem candidate needs to acknowledge all those who are having to vote for her tactically. And pledge to represent them and push for PR so they don't have to do that again.
I’m tactically voting in my area, and that will be Labour
I'm with you.👍
Well done from South Yorkshire
Depends where your area is? If Ashburton then yes vote Labour
hold your nose while you vote.
I cannot vote tactically for a party that doesn't support PR. Voting for a party like Labour that wants to keep FPTP, meaning that I have to vote for a party I don't support or else cast a vote that won't elect anyone forever, is not acceptable.
They did it 🎉🎉 congrats to Caroline Voaden, first lib dem MP for South devon!!
I'll never forgive the Lib Dems for their sordid coalition. Never forget..
But don't accept the coalition domineers.
Sounds like Caroline Voaden was an impressed by that episode as you: th-cam.com/video/dcD8IMEizuY/w-d-xo.htmlsi=n4Hm6pKKefq8s-ih
The lib dems were very naive for sure, but they did curb the worst of tory instincts. Just look what happened after 2015. I think the lib dems are a different party now, a bit wiser.
So basically we don't have a 'democracy'? Have to vote for some party we don't agree with. Yaay.
PR is the only answer - then nobody has to vote 'tactically' ever again.
When an MP can win with less than 30% of the votes, that's NOT a democracy.
I think international studies still rank the UK as a "full democracy", but they're closer to a "flawed democracy" than they are to being a perfect one. You would think FPTP, photo voter ID, no automatic voter registration, no votes for 16-yr olds, voting on a weekday and some of the draconian laws to curb protest etc would act against the UK's rating. Let's hope some of those get fixed soon!
@@mikepotter2561The Gallagher index measurement for this upcoming election is going to be ENORMOUS. It's going to be highly undemocratic and disproportionate. We HAVE to have electoral reform.
@@mikepotter2561 16 year olds aren't voting anywhere. If they could, 16 would be considered adulthood, not 18.So there's that.
@@cs-mi8ur are you an ageist.
The incumbent MP talking about the problem of this approach while ignoring the clear problem of him being a vampire smh
National parties not listening to the electorate.
I am shocked.
Well, not that shocked. 😢
If you look at Australia, the ranked voting system ensures the longevity of the two-party majority that is Labor and Liberal. Very undemocratic yet highly praised by those who aren't that well-versed with it overseas.
Well done to South Devon. Let's hope all the work involved pays off
Ashford Kent has been tory since 1885
Will the people of North Somerset drag themselves out of the 18th Century and modernise ?
Totnes is entirely inconsistent. Its self interested coffee and tea outlets engineered a veto on Costa Coffee opening up because they didn't want competition from chains, but there is now a Coffee No.1 in the town with no fuss.
Who cares who wins, it doesn’t make any difference. I don’t trust MP s and I used to have faith in society but I don’t anymore, so screw it, look after yourself.
why are you here . please explain .
11:10 I like the face she did at the end to that last question. That face said "That's a damn good question".
Ed, that was a damn good question.
Yeah, her motives for the Primary Candidacy seem self-serving, rather than serving democratic will.
@@LimeyRedneck Oh, I would make no such assumption. I think she was caught between appeasing party leadership and appeasing the voters with that question. She gave a very safe answer, on that basis. If I was in her position, I wouldn't want to risk losing the whip, especially given the Lib Dems could have the opportunity to form a shadow cabinet. Whether that's self-serving or a service to the constituents, that their local MP should try to be a powerful member of the opposition party, is not my case to make. I only hope the voters are well-served.
And then she didn't answer it.
@@hps362 Hope you're right and agreed on your last sentence.
Hopefully West Dorset should see a change as well!
How middle class and dull
Totnes had been Tory since 1931.
93 years.
not anymore!
Dude. Stop scrolling on your phone whilst people are answering the question you just asked.
He's loading the next question but yeah agree. Bit of a nasty question really. Hard to totally honest, I imagine she would still have campaigned
We definitely need to change our voting system.... We need Proportional Representation ☑️☑️☑️
I'm in the Herne Bay and Sandwich seat, at least I get the satisfaction of knowing I have done my bit to bin a Tory 😀 A Tory whom I may add has consistently voted against gay rights, who has decided to give water companies a free pass to pump shit into the sea despite being in a predominantly coastal seat.
It worked the Lib Dem’s wonn
It did, although 9.4% still voted for Labour/Greens
STOP THE TORIES DOT VOTE
Is there a reason why Ed keeps looking at his phone whilst interviewing people? Is he recording the discussion? It seems rather rude to me - either give 100% attention or not at all!
open primaries is the way to go In my opinion.
The welcoming signs for Totnes used to have “paired with Area 51” and “paired with Narnia” painted on them.
Totnes has always been a green/leftie stronghold.
To an extent but there is quite a lot of old money around the town (Green in the streets, Tory in the sheets was a fun description I once heard). It also shares a constituency with several traditionally conservative towns (Salcombe, Dartmouth, Brixham et al) so was more the exception rather than the rule. I hope we’re able to break the Tory chokehold but it relies on more areas voting for other parties so the main decider here is how many Tory voters break ranks into Lib Dem or Reform.
Yes, Totnes town, but that’s only 6,500 people in a constituency of 70,000 which includes Brixham and Dartmouth.
So the LibDem candidate wouldn't have respected the process and not campaigned if someone else won? yuck
FPTP only used in Belarus elsewhere in Europe? Iceland President, polish upper house both use FPTP
The Muad'dib of Totnes is a great unofficial title
I wish I had this in my constituency. The tactical voting sites are a start but they just seem to be based on who was second in the last election and that doesn't necessarily mean they are the best option to vote for. I'm voting lib dem because the candidate is already elected on the local council and lives in the area, but the tactical voting site says to vote labour because they got 22% of the vote last election, but in a very conservative constituency it doesn't necessarily mean those swing voters will vote labour, but the lib dem candidate seems like the best option (in my constituency).
Good for her, hope she wins, but that last answer given to the last question shows a lot about her character.
In the worst possible way...
This is a fantastic idea. The Tory candidate is laughing, even he doesn't believe his socialism line.
Say it with me children: "Proportional Representation"
11:02 Classic politician non-answer.
I like the Spotty Party but Stripey Party going to win here regardless, so I am going to go with what I really feel this election, which is Flowers!
what on earth are 'progressive politics'?
Caroline Voaden comes across as quite decent.
People wouldn't have to vote in a way they feel is undemocratic if we didn't have FPTP and
'It's sOCiAlisM! Reeee!'
is very funny.
I would truly love to see Dreadlocks lose her seat
What's progressive about them?
America and Canada use fptp
No they don't.
Why would you keep dreadlocks when they’re full on making you go bald from traction alopecia like that?
Because it's their choice and she is expressing herself as she wants. I could ask, why would your write such a banal comment, but I understand that is also your choice.
Again, this is what I have been saying to people for a while - don't just not vote for something or someone who doesn't directly benefit you just because you think you as an individual have little power. The point is that you have a non-zero amount of power, so if EVERYONE made that vote or change to their life, it would cumulatively have a large and non-negligible impact.
This is why I lose respect for people who say to me "oh switching my lights off, not using the oven, not buying things encased in plastics or not voting for the conservatives/voting for a party that doesn't directly reward me isn't going to make a difference to the environment and will just make my life harder", because it's exactly this inaction which creates the problem. (yes these are all things I've heard people say or have been said to me)
This is a way that some hard-working people who don't solely work for themselves have put the effort in to regain the affect of cumulative voting to at least try and make things better for everyone by essentially somewhat disbanding a monopoly.
The Tories coming 3rd is a good thing EVEN for Tory voters! Even the most religious of the lot knows that a Labor government is inevitable, which means that if your conservative candidate still wins somehow, then that sends a message to the Conservatives that they can put any moron in this seat and no amount of fuckups will make the locals change their minds....Which means an incompetent and complacent Tory leadership. If you vote them out now, maybe next Election they will come back with a better programme.
The destruction of the Tory’s really isn’t something people should be aiming for. Lose them and you’re left with reform as the only right leaning party. When (and it will be a when) labour politics fails in 1,2 or 3 terms time. We’ll have radical right or 4 flavours of left. People will vote right for change.
The South Devon Primary mechanism was completely ignored by Labour - in fact, if any local Labour Party member cooperated they would be immediately expelled.
Labour under Starmer are likely to continue stonewalling perfectly rational demands for electoral reform - the only effective tactic to bring Starmer to the table is one of strength - he will only cooperate if he is literally dragged kicking and screaming to a position where he HAS to consider talking to other parties with a different agenda?
Never thought i would see Canterbury be anything other than Conservative in my lifetime, it’s all it had ever been, then in 2017 we got change, Rosie Duffield for Labour. It was an unexpected and seismic change. Duffield is out of favour with the Labour hierarchy and the local party yet popular with the metropolitan DfL’s who now infest the area.
Even though she has done little for the local area particularly on the sewage problem and not opposing the constant house building on greenfield sites and is pro letting in the boats full of illegal immigrants i think she will still get in for a third term.
11:02 Disingenuous answer from her there. Happy to benefit from the primary system, but wouldn't help the Green candidate if they'd been chosen.
If they wanted the Tories out I dunno why they invited Starmers Labour. Good they didnt attend and we might get someone with a progressive voice here instead of Tory/Labour.
Proportion represention is not the way to go , I think the only way is the Aussie system of compulsory voteing this way you get a true reading of the electrical thinking
Are the Lib Dems progressive?
The fact that she wouldn’t answer that last question says everything about her and the weakness of the Lib Dem’s in general.
It’s very strange as an Australian that the UK still uses the first past the post model and that people are not compelled to vote. I watch on with interest.
So this shit show is their fault?
Have a look at West Dorset, they've had a Tory MP since 1885!
Lib dems won this seat
Lib dem al gaib?
05:16 wait, the Labour candidate is AGAINST Socialism??
Labour is just tory-lite they are identical to how the torys were under cameron.
Props to lib dem and green candidates for participating
Was his second suggestion the Mujahideen of Totnes?
Lib dems contest the centre right and the centre left.
Well good luck Caroline.
And maybe if you do win, maybe propose another referendum. No, not that referendum! Another one about First Past the Post.
There was one in 2011, people voted to keep the current system.
@@arcan762 that was a sham referendum, we all know the tory frauds.
like
Not sure why we're talking about tactical voting when conservative voters don't even want the Tories. If you didn't vote for who your preferred candidate is, you wasted the best opportunity you will ever get. The tories sabotages themselves, "tactical voting" has nothing to do with it. Although to be fair, blue, red, yellow, or green are essentially all the same anyway with slightly different PR. It's only reform that really has any different policies.