Should You Upgrade to MASSIVE Home Theater Subwoofers?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ต.ค. 2024
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I went from 2x8inch to 1x12inch, it’s night and day better. I’m planning on putting 2x12’s in the back then add 2x18’s for the front
Frequency response is next level with bigger sub
Nice upgrade!
This video should come with some warnings. If you have a wife and or share walls with neighbors, watch at your own risks (and theirs)...
I thought that was obvious. 😉
I am rockin a single very high sound quality 15 incher and am very satisfied. But I do realize that I don't have the sub sonic lows that you feel in spades that you guys have.
I went from 2x12 system 1 basic amateur subs to something no one talk about, EVER. The XTZ Cinema 3x12 Sub, this gives me the chills when it working it`s power. Planning on getting a second one :)
I have 4 15's and honestly think it would be crazy to go any bigger, they already knock shit off counters in my kitchen ~30 feet and 2 walls away. Not mention watching the triple pane glass windows flex in my living room....I don't know if my house could even handle more.
If they provide everything you need, no need to upgrade
thanks so much for sharing. I'm looking to re do my home theater and this is very helpful!
Cone area is king.... I'm unhappy until feeling that 145db on the couch. Iv sat in Scott bowmans suv at162 loved it
I’ve got 2 21” devastators I’ll be running. Not the NSW driver, I went with the B&C. Those 2 with 26 12s should be plenty but someday I may upgrade to one of these 24” beasts.
I've been recommending large subs for years and I mean larger than 18 inches!
Did you guys intentionally color coordinate for the video?
At first I thought the screens were doubled! ;-)
Should You Upgrade to MASSIVE Home Theater Subwoofers? Watch the full podcast here - th-cam.com/video/KdZ8pwAVHf8/w-d-xo.html
MWAVE 2023 Tickets and Info - midwestavexperience.com/
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What are you guys using to power these builds? I was looking at a Crown XLi 3500 and two HT-18 v3 from Si
I have 2 x 21 inch and its very much worth it. Made by LW!
Right now rocking 2x 13.8” Arendal 1723 s1 and can’t complain - for my space more is not needed. Will add a 10” sub behind couch for vibrations only
How big is your room? I’m actually in the process of considering purchasing the Arendall, 1723S1 subwoofer. I have a dedicated room approximately 11 x 24’ in size and I would like to move towards purchasing 2 to 4 of them. Are you happy with yours?
@@davemccague222 2 of them will handle that space with ease. My space is slightly smaller and single was doing amazing job - covering multiple seats no problem - previously none of 12” subs was able to do it. I’ve added second just to tackle null around 100Hz in my room.
Arendal is recommending stacking them and connecting together for even bigger output but I doubt you will need more. In the future you might do so - two stacks of two.
@@whitecrowuk575 thanks so much for your reply. Much appreciated I have a few bass nulls in my theatre as well. Two or more would take care of that I’m assuming
@@davemccague222 unless you have many many seats 2 subs will manage great. If possible though put some bass traps in the corners so it’s it doesn’t overhang for too long.
Just measured today with REW and two Arendal 1723 s1 go flat out to 10Hz in my room (measured at 95DBs - didn’t try to push harder but definitely they would go).
Great video. Had a Yahama 8 inche that was a joke. Than 1 Bic F12 made a big difference in movies, than a second one, sound was more even a impactfull. It definetly make movies more immersive.
I notice impacts of differents cable has on sound has I learn in last 3 years. But in the last 3 weeks. Don't have budget/ space plus Ieave in a appartement.
But ordered on different brands of 8 HDMI cable. It made a difference in quality of image, made a big difference in the perception of Dolby Atmos, DTS-X and also make also my Bic F12 more impactfull. Just 3 HDMI cable between my panasonic ub420 and my Yahama receiver and samsung tv.
Cheaper than buying new subwoofer. Found a way in my journey of home cinema expérience to make it better.
Be curious to experiment this next level about 15 to 24 inches subwoofer. But than want be able to replicate.
Agree having subwoofer make voices clearer on center chanel. Subwoofer does make a displacement of air.
Even thow just have a 4k tv. Changing from 4k HDMI cable to the 8k one and than testing different 8k made the differences. Some will say HDMI are the same in the end its bits of zero and one. Did not pay tons of money on Amazon. It made a difference.
If I got two subwoofer it because of some of your older youtube video post Micheal.
Thanks for great content and guess.
So which one of these guyys will be the first to build an addition on the house specifically just to use as a box for the 80 inch subwoofer?
Not me
I have had a few theater setups and the one thing people enjoy the most, by FAR, is the LFE. No comments on midrange and treble. I think it is the best way to perceive power without ruining your ears.
Going from an old Klipsch SB12 to 2x SVS PB3000 was a gamechanger for me, and that's just 2x ported 13". I can already hit 15-16hz with plenty of volume. How much more does one "need." 😋😋
I have found that very large subs sound.......well very large. A 24" sub works less hard (usually have a 3" excursion capability and with normal volumes in average rooms don't even move) and produce a realistic wave front. People want big screens but small subs? That is just illogical.
Come to MWAVE and find out first hand what larger subs offer. 😉
@@Youthman I'd love to! Oh trust and believe, I'm always down for more clean deep bass.
SvS Klipsch Subwoofers and all the other 16 in Subwoofers don't hold a candle to a really big 18,24,28.D.Y.I ,build, there is nothing like a great Bass sound in your theater system 😊
Could t that be said of any brand’s 16” model? There’s no replacement for displacement. That’s physics.
I have dual Monolith 15's (as well as transducers in each seat) in a sealed room that is under 2000sq ft (the room is also acoustically treated) and I have thought about the jump to 21-24" subs, but today I really enjoy the low distortion Monolith 15's and the balance I have with the rest of the system (using ARC Genesis for EQ). I would be concerned that having too much bass would over power the rest of the system and room. For me, I want a balanced system that all integrates together (I have a 11.2.6 setup using all JBL studio speakers with compression drivers).
You won’t overpower your mains with more and bigger subs. You’ll get more headroom and improved frequency response, which translates to cleaner sound and greater impact. You have full control over how hard they hit so there’s no issues with overpowering your mains.
@@frankvee
But if he is already ay head room, he will gain nothing but more headroom,
Which is a waste of money
100% disagree you can never have too much Bass ❤❤@@MrInfoPhilly
This is the most insightful and helpful clip I have seen in a long time. Thank you!👏🏻 I’m planning to build a home theatre from scratch next year and I think you just saved me multiple upgrades. Youthman: Do you think should I should go for big DIY subs or save money to buy 18 inches from a known brand?
i went diy w 2 um 18's and i need 2 more. 4 18's will be perfect. i have mine in ported boxes. imo ported is the only way to go along w big drivers. i bought a rsl 12s and was totally unimpressed with that thing. i thought for sure id be happy with it considering all the good reviews it got. all i gotta say is ill never listen to another so called review ever again. one of the main points of a sub is for impact. then you add in clean bass and sq. when you get none of the above its pretty much garbage. the 12s i noticed is weak as well. i could easily over power it w my surround speakers. the sad thing w that is i dont have any special speakers at all. so for them to even over power the sub was just sad. moral is the sub is weak and do NOT buy it. i immediately returned it and went diy
For someone that is 90% Home Theater and 10% music would you recommend 18 or 21 inch? Also I can’t decide if I should do ported or sealed. I just want that knock you in your chest deep bass. Any thoughts would be appreciated. My room is 20x16 sealed off with no open space.
Question: Question: In your opinion, what is the best choice between a Marantz Sr-6014 and an Emotiva Basx MC1 for a 11.2 or 13.2hp setup?
The 2 would be used as a preamp since I already have a Monolith 7x amplifier. I plan to buy a second one for the atmos.
I already have 6 speakers in boxes for the Atmos.
I’ll take a Marantz over an Emotiva any day. I just have experienced way too many bugs with Emotiva processors. My Denon and Marantz have been rock solid.
@@Youthman Thank you!
So where or who designs and builds the enclosures for you alls sub builds?
Ok, I've got two 12" SVS subs and shakes the house (theater room upstairs) if I get one 21" Will it shake the house more, OR will it shake just as much but i hear/feel lower freq? If I shake the house anymore my wife will kill me!!
More bass equals more shaking. There is no way around it unless you EQ the frequencies that shake the house the most, but then it will not be a smooth response.
If you want to live, I would suggest keeping your 12’s. 🤣
Are you using the decoupling feet? Made a big difference for my upstairs HT.
I agree! More Sub's and less adjustment regarding the frequency...
Center channel is your most important speaker because unintelligible dialogue can ruin the theater experience but a good center channel is like a good referee: You only notice them when you get a truly bad one . But a high quality subwoofer really changes the whole theater experience.
24 inch subs...why! Is the low end of the audio spectrum all you guys are interested? Is hip hop and rap crap the main reason for feeling the sound? No way....this crap is not for me.
You don’t know what you don’t know. th-cam.com/users/shortsAdNMvraqbuc?si=tE6lzoiA12YrcCuR
I've recently downsized from two 15's DIY to having a total of four dual-10's wall-mounted (found second-hand for like $100 each) Artcoustic DFS75-55 X2 subwoofers, so 8 10" drivers in, admittedly, quite small enclosures, but total surface area comes to equal two 20" subs.
Not the biggest, not the most output due to small boxes, but it definitely gets where I wanna be in my living room, especially with DSP.
But yeah, 8 10s or two 15s. You can't beat the big drivers 😅
I started with a JBL 10 off a 100 watt plate amp back 20 years ago and now I have 2 Dayton Ultimax 18's and a 15 and want more. I also have a Dayton Audio Kraken, but I am selling to go to just UM 18's all the way around.
I started with an 8” Boston “sub” woofer that was basically just a toy with 5 little Boston speakers with 3” woofers. When the pandemic hit in 2020 I decided to build a home theater out of boredom. I ordered a 12” SVS subwoofer and that was a nice upgrade. But it just made me want more. So I ordered a PSA Tv1813 and then a 2nd Tv18. I also grabbed some JBL studio 590’s and an emotiva c2+ center.
That’s where I’m at now. I’m still not done yet. I want to upgrade my front L/R/C next to some high efficiency speakers like PSA MTm210t’s or maybe build the DIYSG titans then move the 590’s to surrounds. I also think I may add more subwoofer in the future. I thought about building some type of hoverEze platform or adding tactile transducers. Or maybe eventually some type of very near field sealed array for more tactile bass once I get a better grasp on REW and felt I could integrate sealed and ported together.
It really is addicting! Once you get a taste of great bass you just want more! Honestly, I would recommend anyone looking to upgrade to just get the biggest, basest subwoofer you can afford. Save up for a higher end one. Otherwise you’ll end up going with incremental upgrades and it’ll cost more in the long run. Buy once, cry once!
I live in an apartment, so anything bigger than a sealed 15" is ridiculous...But I would love it if my significant other would let me:D
Thank you for another fantastic video! I´ve seen most of the other guys videos as well with a huge enthusiasm! I have 4x15" in-wall front and 4x15" in the corners behind LP. All operated through MiniDsp and REW and I have spent months, maybe a year in fine tuning the subs. However, I am wondering if you guys are EQ each sub individually or as front/back/nearfield as groups?! I have gone through hours and hours of research about individual EQ, but most respected MiniDsp TH-camr´s says only to add a general EQ (one EQ curve) for ALL subs front/back. I have made some tries to individual EQ front/back (2 different EQ curves) but it has been a mess with a very poorly FR as a result, represented a LOT of dips/peaks. Am I missing out potential by general EQ as front/back has very different FR. Thanks!
Love the insight,,,,at the moment I'm using the Fathom F212 V2 ( 12 x 12 room ) and I can completely see the pattern of moving up in scale,,lol,,I'm currently thinking of adding a Gotham G213 V2. And if I'm completely honest I have never drove the Fathom full-tilt yet and it is completely insane,,but I want more,,,why.....
Hilariously, the same thing happened in car audio back in the 90s when i was in high school building car stereos
Judging from the pictures, Doug could install an electronic imitation pipe organ in that system.
I read a review a few years back with the result being multiple smaller subs placed around the room rather than 2 large subs. Anyone have any experience ?
Just a size and weight factor for me. Infrasonic is definitely the clunkiest piece of hardware for home theater but if the goal is to make the movie as lifelike as possible then you kind of have to have it.
The only issues with 18 inch up to 24 inch subs are attempting to minimize the rattles within your room. In my opinion, anything that may rattle or cause noise outside the soundtrack is incredibly annoying. Not to mention removes and takes you away from the experience itself. Some guys may like that but I’m just not one of them.
I've got four 12" (svs), two are near field. I've had the desire to move to bigger subs but haven't decided which route (manufacturer) to go. So many great products.
Could we say at this point that it's now possible to claim as a fact that a modern home theater system with these types of 18-24 inch subs can not only deliver the exact same experience you would find in an Imax theater, but louder and with more bass. Would that be a fair assessment?
Home theaters are superior to commercial theaters in my opinion. Especially, when it comes to audio. Your ears are closer to the speakers and you hear and feel the transitions of the sound move around you. With multiple subs, the air pressure will start to make your ears pop as if you're traveling in high altitudes. The only thing commercial theaters have over home theaters is huge screens.
@@taseti4803 Thank you for taking the time to reply to me
Oh absolutely. Some of these home theaters blow away the IMAX theaters, especially on the low end. Cinema subs don’t really dig deep. They play down to 30hz ish, maybe 20 at best. You aren’t getting sub-20hz bass in a big cinema. These home theaters can play down into single digits and are playing into the low teens at easily 115db or more.
@@mikem8533 OH wow, I did not know that. I thought they were easily going down to 20hz?
This makes me even more commited to getting a decent sound system
Yeah, my subs are flat down to 5 Hz. There’s no theater I have ever visited that can replicate that.
Three 24" subs...WOW! Would love to experience that. Inspiring!
0:30 .... man we're just nuts with our systems LOVE IT !
What frequency response were you getting from the RSW-15? I personally still use one, and the manufactures manual claims 19hz to 120hz. Think this is accurate?
Down to 20Hz, then it dropped like a rock.
What about buttkicker type transducers? How do they compare in the "brown note"/ chest rumble range?
They can certainly provide a very tactile experience. It’s just a different experience.
How on earth do you maintain clear dialogue and detail with the low end being 40db hotter... 🤔Generally curious. 🔊
40dB hot is certainly not the norm lol.
I played that black-hole scene in Intersetellar tonight for the first time and instantly felt sick after I got up. There's a spot right above the listening area where it made me sea-sick. I still haven't seen the full movie, but someone in the AVS Forums said to clip that spot, so I bought the movie and clipped it. All of my speakers were pumping hard when that scene came up, and it's one of those experiences that makes me never want to watch the movie. Bass sounds amazing in other videos, but this one was painful! Took me at least 15 min until I felt somewhat better.
Some other notes:
- I have my crossovers set to 60Hz.
- I use Dirac Live room correction on my Marantz AV 10; although, I'm running the bass at least 7dBC hot at the moment.
- My speakers are within 3'-6' of my ears.
- I have two massing SVS PC-2000 12" down-firing subs.
You don’t have to listen to it that loud. Always listen at a comfortable level. 😀
@@Youthman It was actually at my normal listening level. The voices etc were normal, but the bass was crazy. They're talking about having 30dB over for bass and 24" subs. I can barely do 7dB on my two 12" subs.
Big subs for big sound! You gotta move some air for those ULFs
Oh yeah! You definitely move a LOT of air in your setup. Thanks for joining us on the podcast.
@@Youthman loved being on! Thanks man!
It was Kyle's videos that inspired me to end up with four Stereo Integrity HST-18's each in a ported box. Definitely next level. I personally EQ out a lot of the sub 20hz frequencies but even still its totally worthwhile.
That’s awesome. Kyle is a great friend
Dont find my comment about u should check out a norwegian guy with 32 18inch subs and i did but the link in the comment to. Did it get deleted?
TH-cam blocks the links. Too many spam bots trying to post porn links.
@@Youthman oh okey, thank u for the answer:)
4 people with very understanding wives
Not exactly. I typically wait till Jessica leaves when I want to crank it up. If not, I can get the dreaded text, “can you turn the bass down?” 🤣
It's never ending. Stopping with dual M-215's. I hope.
Nothing wrong with that. Absolute beast of a sub!
I have quite a bit of home theater gear that I'm trying to sell and I'm will to drive a U-Haul if anyone is seriously interested. DM me.
TH-cam doesn't have DM capability. You could list your email on your About page of your channel.
@@Youthman that makes sense. I love watching your content, man! I appreciate the response.
Thank you Matt, I appreciate the kind words sir.
Idk I think there’s a point of diminishing returns if a 15 can get to 12 hz what’s the point of a 24 ! What will it go to 3 hz ? You can’t even hear that let alone at what cost I’m sure it would hit db in excess of 120db ruin your hearing
That's like asking "if a Kia can do 150kph, (more speed than you ever need), what's the point of having a Ferrari?"
@@fishis14 not it’s not not even close analogy the point is the more big a sub the better chance you will have to have hearing damage my point is clearly stated If a 15 can do 12 hz what can a 24 do if you do 150 in a Kia and a Ferrari your hearing is not gonna be impacted by either
I’m curious what 15” subs are flat down to 12Hz. Also, what level of distortion are they at those frequencies? Bigger subs will handle that with ease and very low distortion. We all have a volume knob to determine how loud we listen to it.
@@Youthman rythmik 15 inch ported never said flat down to just they can achieve it not sure what level distortion either but being servo I’m sure it’s lower than what you would expect
@@danemoreno88 Do you want to achieve 12hrz with a single 15 screaming at or near its excursion limits, and all the extra distortion that comes with it, or have a 24 playing at the same volume, while using 1/4 of its total output with no distortion? Its all about headroom.
wowzer, i didn't even get the 16" monolith yet........
That’s a beast of a sub! You are going to love it.
you need those huge subs...
I don’t have room
Plus I already have huge subs. Two JTR Captivator RS2’s have (4) 18’s and provide MORE than enough output and are flat down to 5Hz in my room.
My primary objection to the big subs is that they are so hard to move. Those 24's have to weigh in the hundreds of pounds.
Mine JTR Captivator RS2’s are 220 lbs each. My son and I were able to easily get them installed in my setup. Once you install them, you never have a reason to move them.
I'm guessing you don't have to do the subwoofer crawl when you get to that level of speakers. Lol
I personally think the subwoofer crawl is a bad way to calibrate subwoofers. It’s much more effective to take measurements with REW and UMIK-1 and then time align and EQ with a miniDSP 2x4HD.
@@randelldavis578 REW room simulations can usually get you close enough to know if your subs will be in decent locations. Also, when you have massive subs, there are usually not a lot of options to move them around the room.
@@Youthman That's nearly a half-ton of speakers alone! 🤣
I have every size sub from 8" up to 18". Each size woofer has different tonal characteristics and i really like the sum sound of all of the different sizes. I feel like im missing nothing down low. Im sure people will have disagreements about this but after testing, my best result in my space was multiple subs of all different sizes.
Mmmm subwoofers 🔊 🥘
When are you gonna upgrade to some real subs? 🤣 your bass is on a WHOLE NEW LEVEL!
The truth is that set up is something he wants and likes
The truth is no you don’t need that much base
Just like money their is never enough