Which is your dream fork? Have you had any experience with our list? Is there something else entirely you'd like to see in future? Let us know in the comments!
My Turbo Kenevo arrived with a 180mm travel Marzocchi Bomber Z1 fork. I wasn't happy with sensitivity, so fitted the coil conversion with the firm spring. That resulted in a major improvement in sensitivity. I've also fitted the Fox Grip 2 damper, and this has transformed the fork again, to the point where it's response on the trail is almost telepathic. It's now the best fork I've experienced. If anyone is debating either upgrade, I would recommend both.
You have to be the only reviewer out there that seem to be absolutely honest, and your thoughts and observations are intelligent and well formulated. It's clear that you have a good understanding of the physics going on. Many other reviewers seem to stick to what the manufacturers claim and not think and feel for themselves. Not sure if that's because they don't understand what the fork is really doing when they are riding, or if it's because they've been told to say specific things for whatever reason. But you just say what you think, and what you think makes well good sense. Super. Well done sir.
@@ryankan1 Nope, I ride a Lyrik with smashpot and custom tuned charger 2.1. I think the 38 would probably suit me fine though, but as of now I am in fork heaven and have no desire to upgrade.
I really like these types of large scale reviews. I am one of those that like to build up a bike from scratch. I like seeing what the current components are and how they stack up against each other.
Lyrik. I agree fully with your findings on the new lyrik. The “older” upgraded air spring sucked down a bit with the larger negative volume and the “upgrade “for the older upgrade was just a fix for this, but at the cost of the small bump sensitivity. My solution was to Buy the older air spring(frequently on sale and much cheaper) , but @ 10mm longer travel than the travel wanted. It will give a large negative chamber with incredible small bump compliance, but sit only a few mm above the original travel and without the loss of other performance qualities.
I also did exactly this. I've tried the 2021 debon air on both a pike and a lyrik, and on lyrik it is pretty okay (altough still a downgrade), but pike turned into a huge turd because the already small air chamber became even smaller.
I've just ridden my Mezzer for the first time (latest version) and I'm riding 10mm more than travel than my 160 Pike. I've been hitting the same trails faster and harder because because the fork feels massively less harsh, and I've used less percentage travel than I do on the pike. I have never felt the trails feel so floaty and confident as having the mezzer on the front and I roughly set my pressures (probably slightly higher than recommended)
@@JayC-vd9ls sorry I didnt get notified on the comment. They arent difficult to set up, service or change travel and manitou provides you with all the information to do so. I think with the IRT you can tune the fork to whatever you want it to feel like and considering you only need a shock pump to do so is a huge factor. I have barely fiddled the dials since having the fork because compared to my experience with pikes it just feels better with recommended settings all round. If you are hitting jumps and sends or want to use all the travel on some rough DH all you need to have is a shock pump which you should bring anyway! The dorado air spring has dedicated world cup performance, ive also done a lot of climbing on the pro which cant be stiffened up like the experts compression system but ive not once noticed it feel bouncy while climbing. I think its a sick fork and unlike me to be happy with set and forget (mostly)
Agree. DVO and Cane Creek especially are some big players in the sub-$1000 high performance market. Sad to see they aren’t in this video. If 160mm is no longer a qualifier for being an enduro fork, how long until we see trail bikes with double-crowns?
I understand your comments but I have found that the mezzer improves after a little use I think the internals may be a little tight when new, run it wide open for a week and you will see it is as good as the fox 36..I have both and the mezzer has a noticeably lighter feel than than the 36 and the stanction is larger..but everything is good these days let's be honest.
Durolux EQ is best imo. Adjustability is massive! Some component is better from other! Super reasonable price, (not too much gimmick you pay for) They are monster company who make fork for other brands anyway! I think that's mean a lot!
Two Rockshox and Fox (3 if we include Marzocchi) products in both 2020 and 2021 test while DVO, Ohlins, Suntour, X-Fusion, DT Swiss, Formula, Cane Creek et al have received at best a single look in this series.
I love Seb's honesty and the fact he actually knows what he's talking about and can explain it all. And regarding Rockshox new air spring... just because they tell you it's an upgrade doesn't mean it actually is. They made the change to cure the suck down issue (which wasn't really an issue when riding) and in turn made the fork harsher over the small stuff. Why change something so good? Anyway keep up the great, honest reviews.👍
I havent tried the new 36s or lyril ultimate. But i had a lyrik rct3 c2 with a luftkappe installed. I switched to a manitou mezzer and it was MILES better! I am 85kg and feel that the only tjing i am missing is that is not the poppiest of forks, but hella comfortable compared to my last fork.
I “upgraded” to the new spring and I don’t like it. It is just like the real Seb said a little bit harsh first part of the travel. To me it seems to be very psi sensitive. I like though that it stays higher in the travel though because I tend to ride steep trails.
We reviewed the ZEB Ultimate back to back with the Manitou Mezzer. The Zeb wins in all out stiffness but found the Mezzer was more supple and comfortable in slower speed as well as at speed. The IRT allowed us to run the fork a bit plush but still very supportive and resist bottom outs. Interesting you guys found it over dampened. Great video.
It can be because the shimstack was slightly changed from 19 to 20 (made softer), and seb got the older version? I too am wondering a lot about why he finds it to be overdamped if not because of that.
Great reporting on the Manitou Mezzer Pro - I found the same issue with the rebound when playing at the bike park. Fantastic chassis with great midstroke support and adjustability, but that rebound shim stack needs a revision. For what it is worth, manitou support did provide an alteration to the rebound shim stack upon request, but I replaced the fork with a custom tuned Avalanche Downhill Racing unit before modifying the Mezzer.
hey can you give more info on this "manitou support did provide an alteration to the rebound shim stack upon request." im sitting on a new/unused mezzer...thinking about switchin got the 36 now. pretty much the thing i was after was midstroke support and getting rid of high speed chatter. so seems like the mezzer would fail at the 2nd want?
Hey Chris, here's what Zac with Manitou suggested..." The rebound assembly in Mezzer is a tunable system, unfortunately we don't offer a specific tuning kit or guide for this sort of thing as that takes a lot of time and energy we're not staffed for at the moment. The one thing you can do is quite simple though: 8.5x0.25 8.5x0.25 12x0.1 9x0.1
@@Andrea-qg5yk honestly, a lot better. Lyrik is much more soft on a small bumps, better on high speed small bumps and holds big hits better as well. More soft and responsive, firm and sturdy at the same time. Great fork man) Truly, these forks is just from an absolutely different price segments, but I got my Lyrik for insane sale price, just the same money as a new AION. Best deal ever)
@@hannesnohl8627 well the main top seal on the air shaft is quite loose and was causing stiction.. I used a seal from a 35mm air shaft.. also reduced negative chamber volume.. skf seals and fresh oil in the damper 2.5wt from 3.0wt
Great video again! I'm running a 2021 Factory 36 on the V2 Ripmo and I absolutely love this fork! I live here in the PNW just below Canada and we have some of everything when it comes to trails, steep, loam, xc, roots, rocks and this fork eats it all up and asks for more, yet is so soft and supple as I'm comparing it to my old Pike on my Enduro. The only other fork I was curious about was the Helm, but I guess I'll have to go back and look for that video. Thanks!
I bought a Fox 36 Factory to upgrade my Stumpjumper in March last year, literally a week before Fox announced the new models. I was so gutted. Overall I'm still stoked with how my 36 performs but I wish I had waited a week longer before upgrading. I bought a Commencal Meta Power SX Race a week ago which is fitted with the Zeb Ultimate. I agree with what you're saying about the Zeb lacking sensitivity. It's great when you're bombing through rough terrain but on smaller bumps it almost feels like it's not doing anything. Kinda disappointing compared to my, now older generation, Fox 36 Factory.
Hoping to try the RS Zeb with a coil once a kit comes out. I can definitely see how placing the transfer port directly at the beginning of the travel hinders some of its sensitivity. Would be nice if the + and - air chambers could be set independently and not communicate.
Manitou Mezzer Pro is perfectly damped for larger 200lbs+ riders, to solve your issue it's an easy shim stack mod that would take you 15 minutes at best. Honestly this is not even a "mod" since Manitou supports/encourages adjusting the shim stack. The feedback should of been; this fork is best suited for larger/heavier riders.
Honest answer to the quality of each fork and the problems of each one.. well done, this gives me a good understanding of them all! I am looking for a quality fork for my ride, only problem now is finding one to buy!
Still find the Z1 coil very interesting, seems the only concern was spring rate Availablity, you dont seem mention stiffness, wich its known for and burlier chassis, hence the increased weight aside from the coil of course. Still NOT a "cheap" fork here Europe though. Cheers!
Its fucking awesome just dissapears under you i dont suffer from the problem of falling between spring rates and think its only downside is you cant add progressivity but thats to be expected from coils
That's because the only difference between the factory and performance is the gold Kashima on the Stanchions mate. There is literally no other difference, therefore you can apply the review of the factory version to the performance. They essentially are the same fork. Some would argue Kashima provides slightly less stiction at the top of the stroke but it's negligible.
@@Gmork-The-Nothing negative mate, that applies to the performance elite and factory, the performance elite and factory have the fit 2 damper, the performance have the fit damper so they are completly two different forks.
@@edgarm2036 kinda hard to get performance forks or shocks because they don't outright sell them, they can only come equipped on prebuilt bikes. Of course you can get them on the used market pretty easily, though, and usually as fresh takeoffs.
Can't help but think you didn't get the latest version of Mezzer Pro, where they removed a shim from the stack making it less damped. I also don't know how much you managed to fiddle with the IRT, but it makes a ton of difference if you learn how to properly set it, and factory recommendation are quite suboptimal for a lot of riders.
@Christopher McGlaughlin hmm your ratio seems about right with 2/3 in the main compared to irt. That suits most i believe. Have you tried more in irt and slightly less dampening? I also find that it needs quite open rebound to work. But for best advice I recommend going to mtbr forum and find the mezzer thread. Lots of really good information.
I just put a mezzer on my Decoy and I love it, I took off a factory 36, to me its way more plush, I'm 165lbs running main 55psi and Irt 90psi high speed open all the way, slow speed 8 rebound 5, the mid support comes from Irt so if it's packing adding to Irt will help that, I personally really like the ability to control mid/bottom separate from top, my trails have some big hits where I need that bottom protection, it's nice to just add a little air 🤷♂️ it is brand new so it may be updated version
I have a 2021 Rockshox Pike Ultimate and your thoughts on the Lyrik make it sound very similar to my initial experience. It did improve though. There was an extensive break in period. It took probably at least 25-35 hours for the fork to really settle in and the small-bump compliance improved dramatically afterwords.
I assume you guys made notes for the forks on settings beyond your air side pressure. Anyway to see the settings? There was a lot of talk about air springs in this video but not much conversation on compression settings relative to the performance you got out of each fork. I'd be curious to know how much bracketing was done per fork to really narrow in the settings for each.
Maybe. Definitely forks for the wealthy weekend weenies. What of the riders that consider a few hundred $, a-lot for a bike...or a suspension fork? Guess they don't matter to BikeRadar. I been pedaling for 32 years. Never owned a motor vehicle. Pedal over 150 miles per week. And have been always satisfied with...Suntour. Their Zeron & Auron brand, is amazing. Have the Zeron, on the GT Zaskar LT. Very reliable & smooth. The Auron 35 boost, installed on the Dartmoor Blackbird, is better than the Rockshox 35, it came equipped with. But BikeRadar, frowns on any equipment below a $grand.
I have a lot of bikes. I have settled on Marzocchi Coil (2), Lyric Ultimate (3) and Fox(36) 1, Zeb (1). Love em all. My favorite is the one I rode that day. If the coil was lighter would be that. If the 36 was plusher would be that. If the Lyric was plusher at speed would be that. No comment on the zeb as it is sitting waiting for the ebike on order.
I felt like my new shape 36 was more a baby 38. Also felt like my new 36 was better and smoother than my old 36 but not better than my Lyrik Ultimate. I'm now on a Zeb Ultimate. It's a very very very good fork.
Had some initial build quality issues on the 38 - a torn seal in the 'tube in tube' air shaft design. I have to say, after servicing it that design is overly complicated for no real benefit. It's very easy to damage a seal trying to disassemble it - much more so than a conventional air shaft design that uses the stantion as the sealing surface. The failure mode is air loss into the lowers which shows up as massive harshness.
Curious what MY and version Mezzer that you had? They did a damper revamp (removed a shim) for more recent models softening it up a bit. I have one and love it, especially with the IRT adjustability. Feels overall better than a MY19 Lyrik with a DSD Runt (3rd air chamber) + Push HC97 damper.
Yeah that's my experience as well. Super subtle and IRT and the HBO makes it very supportive. You can get away with running main champer at pretty low pressure because of those two features.
I only have experienced with Rs and fox but if I'm going to choose independently not relying on popularity i will definitely choose rockshox they revolutionized mtb suspension they're the pioneers. the quality and performance of their suspension forks and shocks are always top notch at the right price(facts)... Another thing to consider on 38 vs zeb, zeb has better stiffness to weight ratio it can be better if you're a super hard charging rider the fork will get even better. it has it all performance, quality and aesthetics also to like lyrik vs 36. And to my personal experience modern Rs high end forks has better perf overtime compared to fox on the same cat. in that case it has lower maintenance and it can preserve the brandnew feeling after a year without technical maintenance/service compared to fox which you really need to do some technical in order to maintain its optimal perf.
I have a Z1 on my Hardtail. I really like it. I'm currently running air and 3 volume spacers to get some extra support based on last years review. I have been thinking of getting the coil, and this may be enough to go for it. I'm just concerned about 1) not being able to change back if I dislike it, 2) lack of adjustability and 3) weight.
Maybe the "better" Bomber Z1 is actually a Rhythm Fox 36 w/ a coil conversion. Vorsprung has many more coil options available and the total cost (used 36 + kit) is comparable to a new Z1.
The 2 forks have the same damper and very similar chassis so if you put a coil in the rhythm you would essentially just end up with the same performance and feel as the z1. Also you could probably get a used z1 for the same price as a rhythm, terrible argument to compare a used and new part.
@@Adam-vm8kp you misunderstand. A coil rhythm would be exactly the same as a coil Z1 except the aftermarket coil conversion has more spring rate options. If I was worried about not having a good spring rate with the Z1, I might consider a used 36 conversion for this reason
@@letsgo_inc I see what you mean but what I mean is that whatever upgrade you can do to the 36 is likely available to the bomber. Plus the rrp on the fox is higher.
Where is the DVO onyx, ohlins RXF38, intend edge, EXT Era, formula selva, cane creek helm mkII???? It’s a very incomplete line up imo. Shout out for the sun tour addition.
Hey Seb have you spent much time on the Rockshox select level forks? Do you see a significant performance improvement from the RC to rc2.1 damper and what circumstances to you think separate high-speed adjustment is of benefit?
So looks like old durolux spring is better because u can change negative spring as u like and it costs basically nothing compared to any spare parts of Fox and rs
Exactly. You can still install the old spring on the new fork thought, or you can get the old one for a lot cheaper. I hope they bring it back/improve the new one by increasing the negative spring size.
Not just that. When he said the Yari can be upgraded by dropping an aftermarket damper in I came to the situation why I just bought a Durolux EQ R2C2 (not the lower model RC2 they appear to be testing). There are no air springs or Charger 2.1 dampers where I live for my Revelation. I simply can't upgrade it. So it's a no-brainer to buy a replacement fork that comes with everything off the bat. And it's only £340 where I am. Just less than the price of "upgrading" my Revelation to a "usable" fork!
I’m having issues getting small bump sensitivity, it just chatters on rocks and roots. Looking to make the bottom stroke more sensitive. Any advice, I’m on the light end at only 150 lbs
Interestingly, Pinkbike have completely different thoughts on Zeb vs 38s. Also, I found 2021 36s harsher at the beginning of the stroke comparing to Lyrik, 36s however, does offer more predictable support in the middle.
You mentioned the Yari, though not in the line up test. Would have been nice to mention that the Yari and the Lyric have the same chassis and only differ on the damper. I think the Yari should also have been in this review :) Love the Yari, simple is better! Cheers
The manitou mezzer sounds like the ultimate playful enduro fork if only it played to its own strengths by allowing a fast rebound speed. What's your weight? Around 85kg I found somewhere on the internet? That's too bad, I was hoping you were just a 65kg rider on an overly damped fork but if it's too overdamped for you - that means it's probably the same for me @88kg with a preferance for suspension that doesn't soak up too much energy so that I can pop and pump everywhere
I'd like to know how other non mainstream forks stack up such as Formula, EXT, Ohlins, BOS, DVO & even RST. Also the difference with aftermarket cartridge upgrades/coil conversions such as Push AC3, Fast Suspension SC4, Avalanche, etc. Their you go, a 3 part series lol
As someone who really likes the Mezzer Pro and has had some of the other forks, WHY would you lower the air pressure if you say the rebound damping is too strong? Literally the opposite of what you should do. More air pressure can help to combat the rebound damping.
Hi Seb! Good video! I also have the same slow rebound issue with Fox 36 FIT4 damper. I am 62 kg with 3 kg backpack and using 55 psi (approx.) as Fox recommended, and 2 clicks rebound from the fastest. Still, the fork seems to return a tad slow and sometimes I have to fully open it! It's weird, isn't it? I love wheelie and manualling, and this issue becomes a pain. Anyone with the same problem?
The air fork push is about profitability and saving weight at the expensive of a fork doing what it’s supposed to do. . In the motocross world spring/coil is best. The KTM brands have been pushing the WP air- lighter weight is only benefit. It is about as good as it will get and it still sucks. Had a friend convert his air to a spring “ I forgot what good suspension was”- most in moto world convert their air forks to spring after struggling to get air forks to work. I would much rather push an extra 1-2 lbs for the superior ride a spring fork provides. With e mtb growing so fast I see it as a no brainer- less concern with weight. A spring fork- easily swap out springs for rider weight/ capability/ rider preference.
Why are there so many forks using QR levers? Like the Marzocchi forks? Would be interesting to hear what you guys think about the best price to performance ratio fork is. The Fox 38 being good is one thing, but it's also ridiculously expensive, to the point where you wonder if 500 more bucks spent on that is really worth the money (assuming you're not competing in races, but then you'd probably be sponsored anyway). And does anyone know why the Marzocchi ones are so expensive in Germany? A Z2 costs about 700€ to 800€, which is enough to buy a Lyrik Ultimate in the same shop (770€). Still looking for the right choice for my hardtail (Ragley Mmmbop, so 150mm).
Which is your dream fork? Have you had any experience with our list? Is there something else entirely you'd like to see in future? Let us know in the comments!
I got the new lyrik ultimate 2 days ago and it's just amazing!!
I feel like the old suntour spring was better. It didn't fit everyone perfectly but had a lot of small bump sensitivity.
I own the Zeb but looking into the EXT Era
My Turbo Kenevo arrived with a 180mm travel Marzocchi Bomber Z1 fork. I wasn't happy with sensitivity, so fitted the coil conversion with the firm spring. That resulted in a major improvement in sensitivity. I've also fitted the Fox Grip 2 damper, and this has transformed the fork again, to the point where it's response on the trail is almost telepathic. It's now the best fork I've experienced. If anyone is debating either upgrade, I would recommend both.
Rockshox Sid SL Ultimate
Best Enduro Fork 2021: 2020 for sale fork
Update. Best fork 2021/22, any fork you can get your hands on 😕
bhahaha best fork in my world!
Hahaha right on !
MTB logic at its best
Agree
You have to be the only reviewer out there that seem to be absolutely honest, and your thoughts and observations are intelligent and well formulated. It's clear that you have a good understanding of the physics going on. Many other reviewers seem to stick to what the manufacturers claim and not think and feel for themselves. Not sure if that's because they don't understand what the fork is really doing when they are riding, or if it's because they've been told to say specific things for whatever reason. But you just say what you think, and what you think makes well good sense. Super. Well done sir.
My guess is that you ride the fox 38? :D
@@ryankan1 Nope, I ride a Lyrik with smashpot and custom tuned charger 2.1. I think the 38 would probably suit me fine though, but as of now I am in fork heaven and have no desire to upgrade.
Thanks very much.
This is rad, I wish that new EXT era was in here, that thing is special.
Yes, it's a shame. Mike Kazimer was very impressed by it.
Sounds like they are tough to get, even for the mtb sites
They wouldn't send us one.
@@sebstott3573 I wonder why, but I guess they might be out of stock. I know the coil version is coming soon. But the Era looks promising.
Seb is a great tester and presenter! Thanks for posting.
Right on, one of the best if not the best!!!
I really like these types of large scale reviews. I am one of those that like to build up a bike from scratch. I like seeing what the current components are and how they stack up against each other.
Well i love my durolux and it is very comfortable. Trails and jumps feels like heaven. No issues at all
Lyrik. I agree fully with your findings on the new lyrik. The “older” upgraded air spring sucked down a bit with the larger negative volume and the “upgrade “for the older upgrade was just a fix for this, but at the cost of the small bump sensitivity. My solution was to Buy the older air spring(frequently on sale and much cheaper) , but @ 10mm longer travel than the travel wanted. It will give a large negative chamber with incredible small bump compliance, but sit only a few mm above the original travel and without the loss of other performance qualities.
I also did exactly this. I've tried the 2021 debon air on both a pike and a lyrik, and on lyrik it is pretty okay (altough still a downgrade), but pike turned into a huge turd because the already small air chamber became even smaller.
Yes, that's what I did too.
Would this idea work for the Zeb as well?
@@abecoleman3250 different stanchion diameter. They only started with that fork this year, so there is no old one
I've just ridden my Mezzer for the first time (latest version) and I'm riding 10mm more than travel than my 160 Pike. I've been hitting the same trails faster and harder because because the fork feels massively less harsh, and I've used less percentage travel than I do on the pike. I have never felt the trails feel so floaty and confident as having the mezzer on the front and I roughly set my pressures (probably slightly higher than recommended)
Pro or expert? I'm debating if the pro is worth the extra $$. From what I've read, the expert is much simpler to setup, which appeals to me.
@@JayC-vd9ls jump on mtbr mezzer thread
@@JayC-vd9ls sorry I didnt get notified on the comment. They arent difficult to set up, service or change travel and manitou provides you with all the information to do so.
I think with the IRT you can tune the fork to whatever you want it to feel like and considering you only need a shock pump to do so is a huge factor. I have barely fiddled the dials since having the fork because compared to my experience with pikes it just feels better with recommended settings all round. If you are hitting jumps and sends or want to use all the travel on some rough DH all you need to have is a shock pump which you should bring anyway!
The dorado air spring has dedicated world cup performance, ive also done a lot of climbing on the pro which cant be stiffened up like the experts compression system but ive not once noticed it feel bouncy while climbing. I think its a sick fork and unlike me to be happy with set and forget (mostly)
Where is the:
-dt swiss 535
-Ext era
-dvo onyx
-cane creek helm mk2
-ohlins
I run the Onyx on my bike, it is amazing, super smooth off the top, but takes big hits just as well as a 36 Grip 2.
@@mrvwbug4423 probably all dvo team are inspiried by fox, also like half team was working with marzocci
I second that, coil version of Öhlins and Ext too.
We tested the 535 last year. Helm isn't available in 170mm (though we tested the air version last year too) and EXT wouldn't send us a fork to test.
Agree. DVO and Cane Creek especially are some big players in the sub-$1000 high performance market. Sad to see they aren’t in this video. If 160mm is no longer a qualifier for being an enduro fork, how long until we see trail bikes with double-crowns?
So glad you guys made another last years was sick
I understand your comments but I have found that the mezzer improves after a little use I think the internals may be a little tight when new, run it wide open for a week and you will see it is as good as the fox 36..I have both and the mezzer has a noticeably lighter feel than than the 36 and the stanction is larger..but everything is good these days let's be honest.
Durolux EQ is best imo.
Adjustability is massive!
Some component is better from other!
Super reasonable price, (not too much gimmick you pay for)
They are monster company who make fork for other brands anyway!
I think that's mean a lot!
It’s really not that massive bro I think ur just geekin
Best fork comparaison test two years in row. Amazing work mate
I figured Seb would love the Zeb.
Two Rockshox and Fox (3 if we include Marzocchi) products in both 2020 and 2021 test while DVO, Ohlins, Suntour, X-Fusion, DT Swiss, Formula, Cane Creek et al have received at best a single look in this series.
I love Seb's honesty and the fact he actually knows what he's talking about and can explain it all.
And regarding Rockshox new air spring... just because they tell you it's an upgrade doesn't mean it actually is. They made the change to cure the suck down issue (which wasn't really an issue when riding) and in turn made the fork harsher over the small stuff. Why change something so good?
Anyway keep up the great, honest reviews.👍
I havent tried the new 36s or lyril ultimate. But i had a lyrik rct3 c2 with a luftkappe installed. I switched to a manitou mezzer and it was MILES better! I am 85kg and feel that the only tjing i am missing is that is not the poppiest of forks, but hella comfortable compared to my last fork.
They fixed the ohlis from last year you guys should do a review
M.2, they are the shite 👍
No doubt one of the best Forks on the market.
@@archetypex65i have the rxf 36 evo andreani tuned it's an incredible fork
Just bought an m.2 myself. I’d love to see a review on it on here.
@@markez3950 I had the evo rxf 36 on my fuel ex 8. Excellent all trail/ Enduro fork. Would love to try the m.2 👍
@@dallasniles7401 The coil or air?
I upgraded my debonair and it made the fork wayyyy better, even more sensitive in some way
Lyrik? Upgraded from 2020 to 2021 airspring? Same travel and token count?
@@akabukiman nah yari, but nothin else changed but may be that the service that i performed with installing the spring helped that
I “upgraded” to the new spring and I don’t like it. It is just like the real Seb said a little bit harsh first part of the travel. To me it seems to be very psi sensitive. I like though that it stays higher in the travel though because I tend to ride steep trails.
I can see the insane amount of work you have put into this! Great one again!
We reviewed the ZEB Ultimate back to back with the Manitou Mezzer. The Zeb wins in all out stiffness but found the Mezzer was more supple and comfortable in slower speed as well as at speed. The IRT allowed us to run the fork a bit plush but still very supportive and resist bottom outs. Interesting you guys found it over dampened. Great video.
It can be because the shimstack was slightly changed from 19 to 20 (made softer), and seb got the older version? I too am wondering a lot about why he finds it to be overdamped if not because of that.
Where is the cane creek Helm MK2 ?
Great reporting on the Manitou Mezzer Pro - I found the same issue with the rebound when playing at the bike park. Fantastic chassis with great midstroke support and adjustability, but that rebound shim stack needs a revision.
For what it is worth, manitou support did provide an alteration to the rebound shim stack upon request, but I replaced the fork with a custom tuned Avalanche Downhill Racing unit before modifying the Mezzer.
hey can you give more info on this "manitou support did provide an alteration to the rebound shim stack upon request." im sitting on a new/unused mezzer...thinking about switchin got the 36 now. pretty much the thing i was after was midstroke support and getting rid of high speed chatter. so seems like the mezzer would fail at the 2nd want?
Hey Chris, here's what Zac with Manitou suggested..." The rebound assembly in Mezzer is a tunable system, unfortunately we don't offer a specific tuning kit or guide for this sort of thing as that takes a lot of time and energy we're not staffed for at the moment. The one thing you can do is quite simple though:
8.5x0.25
8.5x0.25
12x0.1
9x0.1
@@justinvaughnatx awesome. i appreciate the reply! any chance it's this zac? www.smithtechbike.com/contact
I always love these suspension videos by Seb. I wish he did more of them.
Such a great review I came back a year later and watched it again!
I work in a bike shop and we’ve already had the factory 36s comeback with knocking issues for the damper and creaky CSUs but not the with the 38s yet
just ordered a 36 factory, hoping it is better than my 5 year old marzocchi 😂
it freakin will be better
I just went from a rockshox recon to a 36 and it's like a new bike
Just ordered a new Lyrik over a Suntour AION 35, will found out how much Lyrik is better than my current Suntour AION)))
@@Dima-dc5mf how much better is it?
@@Andrea-qg5yk honestly, a lot better. Lyrik is much more soft on a small bumps, better on high speed small bumps and holds big hits better as well. More soft and responsive, firm and sturdy at the same time. Great fork man) Truly, these forks is just from an absolutely different price segments, but I got my Lyrik for insane sale price, just the same money as a new AION. Best deal ever)
Yo the Zeb looks so pro compared to all of those. Can't wait to try mine when my frame arrives in April
Got the Zeb ultimate.. done a couple mods to the air spring.. got the same feel as a 2020 lyric now with the added stiffness 👊🏻
What have you done to it?
@@hannesnohl8627 well the main top seal on the air shaft is quite loose and was causing stiction.. I used a seal from a 35mm air shaft.. also reduced negative chamber volume.. skf seals and fresh oil in the damper 2.5wt from 3.0wt
Great video again! I'm running a 2021 Factory 36 on the V2 Ripmo and I absolutely love this fork! I live here in the PNW just below Canada and we have some of everything when it comes to trails, steep, loam, xc, roots, rocks and this fork eats it all up and asks for more, yet is so soft and supple as I'm comparing it to my old Pike on my Enduro. The only other fork I was curious about was the Helm, but I guess I'll have to go back and look for that video. Thanks!
I bought a Fox 36 Factory to upgrade my Stumpjumper in March last year, literally a week before Fox announced the new models. I was so gutted. Overall I'm still stoked with how my 36 performs but I wish I had waited a week longer before upgrading. I bought a Commencal Meta Power SX Race a week ago which is fitted with the Zeb Ultimate. I agree with what you're saying about the Zeb lacking sensitivity. It's great when you're bombing through rough terrain but on smaller bumps it almost feels like it's not doing anything. Kinda disappointing compared to my, now older generation, Fox 36 Factory.
Just ordered a spindrift with a 38. So excited to test it!
Hoping to try the RS Zeb with a coil once a kit comes out. I can definitely see how placing the transfer port directly at the beginning of the travel hinders some of its sensitivity. Would be nice if the + and - air chambers could be set independently and not communicate.
Great Video as always, Seb is the best, out of all the info out there Seb's Suspension recommendations carry the most weight in my purchase decisions.
Real question is: Now, after this test, how fast has Seb gotten at swapping out a fork? :D
Great reviews from Zeb as always. Keep up the good work!
Manitou Mezzer Pro is perfectly damped for larger 200lbs+ riders, to solve your issue it's an easy shim stack mod that would take you 15 minutes at best. Honestly this is not even a "mod" since Manitou supports/encourages adjusting the shim stack.
The feedback should of been; this fork is best suited for larger/heavier riders.
suntour durolux36 👌
Love the video. I think a lot of riders would love to also see a "Best Enduro Forks that you never have to adjust or think about". Thanks again!!
I would buy the SR Suntour. I am cheap and always liked Underdog and his girlfriend Sweet Polly Purebred! ;)
Dont bruh they soo hard to sell
@@sandybailey7877 SELL things?!?! I just keep them or throw them away! LOL
i got the fox 38 factory on my 2021 propain ekano. it's a beast.... incredible how smooth this fork works. 🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩😍😍😍😍😍
Honest answer to the quality of each fork and the problems of each one.. well done, this gives me a good understanding of them all! I am looking for a quality fork for my ride, only problem now is finding one to buy!
Take the lyrik
Fox 36 @ 160MM of travel is literally my favorite
Still find the Z1 coil very interesting, seems the only concern was spring rate Availablity, you dont seem mention stiffness, wich its known for and burlier chassis, hence the increased weight aside from the coil of course. Still NOT a "cheap" fork here Europe though. Cheers!
Its fucking awesome just dissapears under you i dont suffer from the problem of falling between spring rates and think its only downside is you cant add progressivity but thats to be expected from coils
Great test!! You guys should test the fox 38 performance not everyone can afford the factory and theres 0 tests for those shocks!
That's because the only difference between the factory and performance is the gold Kashima on the Stanchions mate. There is literally no other difference, therefore you can apply the review of the factory version to the performance. They essentially are the same fork. Some would argue Kashima provides slightly less stiction at the top of the stroke but it's negligible.
@@Gmork-The-Nothing negative mate, that applies to the performance elite and factory, the performance elite and factory have the fit 2 damper, the performance have the fit damper so they are completly two different forks.
@@edgarm2036 kinda hard to get performance forks or shocks because they don't outright sell them, they can only come equipped on prebuilt bikes. Of course you can get them on the used market pretty easily, though, and usually as fresh takeoffs.
Great review/comparisons. Would love to see an honest review of the Cane Creek HELM MK2.
Would love to hear your review on the EXT Era
Can't help but think you didn't get the latest version of Mezzer Pro, where they removed a shim from the stack making it less damped. I also don't know how much you managed to fiddle with the IRT, but it makes a ton of difference if you learn how to properly set it, and factory recommendation are quite suboptimal for a lot of riders.
@Christopher McGlaughlin hmm your ratio seems about right with 2/3 in the main compared to irt. That suits most i believe. Have you tried more in irt and slightly less dampening? I also find that it needs quite open rebound to work. But for best advice I recommend going to mtbr forum and find the mezzer thread. Lots of really good information.
I just put a mezzer on my Decoy and I love it, I took off a factory 36, to me its way more plush, I'm 165lbs running main 55psi and Irt 90psi high speed open all the way, slow speed 8 rebound 5, the mid support comes from Irt so if it's packing adding to Irt will help that, I personally really like the ability to control mid/bottom separate from top, my trails have some big hits where I need that bottom protection, it's nice to just add a little air 🤷♂️ it is brand new so it may be updated version
Full and real specs, great job and thank you very much
I have a 2021 Rockshox Pike Ultimate and your thoughts on the Lyrik make it sound very similar to my initial experience. It did improve though. There was an extensive break in period. It took probably at least 25-35 hours for the fork to really settle in and the small-bump compliance improved dramatically afterwords.
One of the best explained and helpful vids I have seen yet! Thanks!
I assume you guys made notes for the forks on settings beyond your air side pressure. Anyway to see the settings?
There was a lot of talk about air springs in this video but not much conversation on compression settings relative to the performance you got out of each fork.
I'd be curious to know how much bracketing was done per fork to really narrow in the settings for each.
Maybe. Definitely forks for the wealthy weekend weenies. What of the riders that consider a few hundred $, a-lot for a bike...or a suspension fork? Guess they don't matter to BikeRadar. I been pedaling for 32 years. Never owned a motor vehicle. Pedal over 150 miles per week. And have been always satisfied with...Suntour. Their Zeron & Auron brand, is amazing. Have the Zeron, on the GT Zaskar LT. Very reliable & smooth. The Auron 35 boost, installed on the Dartmoor Blackbird, is better than the Rockshox 35, it came equipped with. But BikeRadar, frowns on any equipment below a $grand.
I have a lot of bikes. I have settled on Marzocchi Coil (2), Lyric Ultimate (3) and Fox(36) 1, Zeb (1). Love em all. My favorite is the one I rode that day. If the coil was lighter would be that. If the 36 was plusher would be that. If the Lyric was plusher at speed would be that. No comment on the zeb as it is sitting waiting for the ebike on order.
Would like to see a wonderful formula selva
I felt like my new shape 36 was more a baby 38. Also felt like my new 36 was better and smoother than my old 36 but not better than my Lyrik Ultimate. I'm now on a Zeb Ultimate. It's a very very very good fork.
Been waiting for an updated fork test 🤘🏻
Had some initial build quality issues on the 38 - a torn seal in the 'tube in tube' air shaft design. I have to say, after servicing it that design is overly complicated for no real benefit. It's very easy to damage a seal trying to disassemble it - much more so than a conventional air shaft design that uses the stantion as the sealing surface. The failure mode is air loss into the lowers which shows up as massive harshness.
Whole lot of effort in this video, wow
Curious what MY and version Mezzer that you had? They did a damper revamp (removed a shim) for more recent models softening it up a bit. I have one and love it, especially with the IRT adjustability. Feels overall better than a MY19 Lyrik with a DSD Runt (3rd air chamber) + Push HC97 damper.
Yeah that's my experience as well. Super subtle and IRT and the HBO makes it very supportive. You can get away with running main champer at pretty low pressure because of those two features.
I Run A 160 Z1 On My CarbonWarden 😎 Its AWESOME Just Got It . Riding Fromme Saturday 😎
I only have experienced with Rs and fox but if I'm going to choose independently not relying on popularity i will definitely choose rockshox they revolutionized mtb suspension they're the pioneers. the quality and performance of their suspension forks and shocks are always top notch at the right price(facts)... Another thing to consider on 38 vs zeb, zeb has better stiffness to weight ratio it can be better if you're a super hard charging rider the fork will get even better. it has it all performance, quality and aesthetics also to like lyrik vs 36. And to my personal experience modern Rs high end forks has better perf overtime compared to fox on the same cat. in that case it has lower maintenance and it can preserve the brandnew feeling after a year without technical maintenance/service compared to fox which you really need to do some technical in order to maintain its optimal perf.
I have a Z1 on my Hardtail. I really like it. I'm currently running air and 3 volume spacers to get some extra support based on last years review. I have been thinking of getting the coil, and this may be enough to go for it. I'm just concerned about 1) not being able to change back if I dislike it, 2) lack of adjustability and 3) weight.
I would like to see a EXT ERA in your test.
Maybe the "better" Bomber Z1 is actually a Rhythm Fox 36 w/ a coil conversion. Vorsprung has many more coil options available and the total cost (used 36 + kit) is comparable to a new Z1.
The 2 forks have the same damper and very similar chassis so if you put a coil in the rhythm you would essentially just end up with the same performance and feel as the z1. Also you could probably get a used z1 for the same price as a rhythm, terrible argument to compare a used and new part.
@@Adam-vm8kp you misunderstand. A coil rhythm would be exactly the same as a coil Z1 except the aftermarket coil conversion has more spring rate options. If I was worried about not having a good spring rate with the Z1, I might consider a used 36 conversion for this reason
@@letsgo_inc I see what you mean but what I mean is that whatever upgrade you can do to the 36 is likely available to the bomber. Plus the rrp on the fox is higher.
Where is the DVO onyx, ohlins RXF38, intend edge, EXT Era, formula selva, cane creek helm mkII???? It’s a very incomplete line up imo. Shout out for the sun tour addition.
Hey Seb have you spent much time on the Rockshox select level forks? Do you see a significant performance improvement from the RC to rc2.1 damper and what circumstances to you think separate high-speed adjustment is of benefit?
So looks like old durolux spring is better because u can change negative spring as u like and it costs basically nothing compared to any spare parts of Fox and rs
Exactly. You can still install the old spring on the new fork thought, or you can get the old one for a lot cheaper.
I hope they bring it back/improve the new one by increasing the negative spring size.
Not just that. When he said the Yari can be upgraded by dropping an aftermarket damper in I came to the situation why I just bought a Durolux EQ R2C2 (not the lower model RC2 they appear to be testing).
There are no air springs or Charger 2.1 dampers where I live for my Revelation. I simply can't upgrade it. So it's a no-brainer to buy a replacement fork that comes with everything off the bat. And it's only £340 where I am. Just less than the price of "upgrading" my Revelation to a "usable" fork!
Great reviews. Some really detailed observations there. Thanks!
If it wasn't for the crown creaking that FOX forks have, they would be good forks.
Lyrik Ultimate felt a lot better to me with the 2021 Airspring upgrade. I preferred it to the 36 before I upgraded it but now it is amazing!
Same here. I just put the new air spring in my 2018 lyric and it's amazing. It feels like a. Whole new fork.
I’m having issues getting small bump sensitivity, it just chatters on rocks and roots. Looking to make the bottom stroke more sensitive. Any advice, I’m on the light end at only 150 lbs
Interestingly, Pinkbike have completely different thoughts on Zeb vs 38s. Also, I found 2021 36s harsher at the beginning of the stroke comparing to Lyrik, 36s however, does offer more predictable support in the middle.
love my DVO Onyx
I thought it was funny that he kept referring to Off The Top in the video which I am sure Bryson will laugh at!! Love my DVO!!
Can you make a best coil shock review?
Would have been cool to see one of the best forks around in this test: Ohlins M2 Coil. Have on in my Sworks Enduro, with matching coil shock.
Next year you guys need to include a couple of Ohlins forks and I hope I’ve spelt Ohlins properly
Öhlins
You mentioned the Yari, though not in the line up test. Would have been nice to mention that the Yari and the Lyric have the same chassis and only differ on the damper. I think the Yari should also have been in this review :) Love the Yari, simple is better! Cheers
Conclusion: Buy „old” Lyrik.
You cant get them anymore, BUT you can still buy that spring 🤗
I'm pretty sure that changing the oil thickness in mezzer will solve your problems
Ext era would have won that, best one I've ever ridden
The manitou mezzer sounds like the ultimate playful enduro fork if only it played to its own strengths by allowing a fast rebound speed. What's your weight? Around 85kg I found somewhere on the internet? That's too bad, I was hoping you were just a 65kg rider on an overly damped fork but if it's too overdamped for you - that means it's probably the same for me @88kg with a preferance for suspension that doesn't soak up too much energy so that I can pop and pump everywhere
I got 2022 lyrik 160mm ultimate love it
I'd like to know how other non mainstream forks stack up such as Formula, EXT, Ohlins, BOS, DVO & even RST.
Also the difference with aftermarket cartridge upgrades/coil conversions such as Push AC3, Fast Suspension SC4, Avalanche, etc.
Their you go, a 3 part series lol
Great review , very comprehensive . But now i have a inferiority complex with my old Sector 150 ( 32 mm) ...
Anyone else notice they keep saying R2C2 for the durolux and it clearly had a sticker on the air side that said RC2.
Where is dvo? They make some of the best forks around
DVO is made in Suntour Factory.
What about onlins and cane creek ?
I would love to see more mainstream companies returning back to these light coloured stanchions
Interesting to know what the aftermarket airshaft was in the 36 and how it differs from the stock shaft, other than in just travel.
agree with the revised 36 for 2020 I have the 2019 version and the new one is a step above it.
I have a 38 Factory coming on my new Clash Signature.
As someone who really likes the Mezzer Pro and has had some of the other forks, WHY would you lower the air pressure if you say the rebound damping is too strong? Literally the opposite of what you should do. More air pressure can help to combat the rebound damping.
@Christopher McGlaughlin so youre also experiencing that the mezzer fails at high speed chatter??
he had the old rebound tune, they made the rebound lighter
Another great review Seb
Hi Seb! Good video! I also have the same slow rebound issue with Fox 36 FIT4 damper. I am 62 kg with 3 kg backpack and using 55 psi (approx.) as Fox recommended, and 2 clicks rebound from the fastest. Still, the fork seems to return a tad slow and sometimes I have to fully open it! It's weird, isn't it? I love wheelie and manualling, and this issue becomes a pain. Anyone with the same problem?
Please do a shock comparison video
The air fork push is about profitability and saving weight at the expensive of a fork doing what it’s supposed to do. . In the motocross world spring/coil is best. The KTM brands have been pushing the WP air- lighter weight is only benefit. It is about as good as it will get and it still sucks. Had a friend convert his air to a spring “ I forgot what good suspension was”- most in moto world convert their air forks to spring after struggling to get air forks to work. I would much rather push an extra 1-2 lbs for the superior ride a spring fork provides. With e mtb growing so fast I see it as a no brainer- less concern with weight. A spring fork- easily swap out springs for rider weight/ capability/ rider preference.
The intende Ebonite looks soooo similar to a 2009 sr suntour durolux
Seb i would have liked to see how you go on the Mezzer if the rebound was retuned
Why are there so many forks using QR levers? Like the Marzocchi forks?
Would be interesting to hear what you guys think about the best price to performance ratio fork is. The Fox 38 being good is one thing, but it's also ridiculously expensive, to the point where you wonder if 500 more bucks spent on that is really worth the money (assuming you're not competing in races, but then you'd probably be sponsored anyway).
And does anyone know why the Marzocchi ones are so expensive in Germany? A Z2 costs about 700€ to 800€, which is enough to buy a Lyrik Ultimate in the same shop (770€). Still looking for the right choice for my hardtail (Ragley Mmmbop, so 150mm).