Another great video! I'm so impressed with the way you research so thoroughly and present the information so clearly and concisely. This is a great way to introduce the issues of the documentary hypothesis, and I'll recommend it to my students.
Dude. This video was so good. I mean not just the content but how you present it. Your style of videos remind me of something that I would have seen on PBS growing up. Keep it up man, as someone who has found you recently I absolutely love this channel.
Honestly, reading Joseph's imprisonment in Egypt makes it sound like there are only like 5 people living in Egypt or they can't afford any extras for the production, so everyone doubles up on roles
Really great stuff, I'm doing my PhD on a diachronic reading of the Joseph Story at the moment so thoroughly enjoyed your video. Have you read Franziska Ede's work on Joseph? Her thesis Die Josefsgeschichte is in German, but she has several more accessible articles in English (The Literary Development of the Joseph Story, and The Joseph Story: Diaspora Novella - Patriarchal Story - Exodus Narrative). I'm somewhat convinced of her main thesis which is that the original Diaspora novella is broadly 37-45 (sans 38-39) and that the original story ended in 45. The majority of material from 46-50 is concerned with the tribal details and the connection to the Exodus. I suspect the 2nd reconciliation in 50 is a reworking of the first reconciliation episode rather than an original conclusion to the Joseph story - perhaps by the Genesis editor (as it seems to deal with the problem of generational violence, something that would have been foreign to the diaspora novella). There's also a substantial number of Mesopotamian connections which I find quite curious. Gilgamesh also features a seven year famine and Ishtar (associated with Shepherding and depicted in beautiful clothing) stores up grain like Joseph. Esarhaddon's rise to power also depicts him as a young son, surprisingly elevated over his brothers who jealously conspire against him causing him to flee to a foreign land. Definitely some common motifs in the air at the time. Also in regards to the enslavement of Egypt, I think I sit with Mark Brett that this may have been a critique against Joseph, painting him as a harsh ruler. Perhaps specifically to critique the adoption of Persian power by Ezra to enforce harsh laws. Great job on the production too, I know how long a video like this would have taken to produce!
Hey, thanks for the comment. Having the opportunity to do a PhD thesis on this topic sounds fascinating. Regarding Franziska Ede, I don’t think I have access to her thesis, but I did read the other article you mention (“Literary Development…”) in preparation for the video. In the end, I chose to concentrate on the earlier parts of the story and didn’t need to dive into her views of chapters 46-50. My comment in the introduction about Joseph bridging two different origin traditions is something she remarks on (reviewing my research notes, I see that I highlighted it), although she’s obviously not the only one to have made that observation. Regarding the other stuff, yeah, it’s an abundance of riches. Ultimately, there is nothing else to connect the plots of the Gilgamesh Bull of Heaven story with Joseph aside from the seven-year famine and Ishtar’s preparations, so I decided to leave it out when there are closer Egyptian parallels at hand. I think the Esarhaddon story may have some influence on the fraternal conflict plot, but I couldn’t come up with a good way to work it in. I think “in the air” is a good way to describe some of these motifs.
I can't help but think that the Judah and Tamar story (though most likely influenced from the story about the other Tamar found in 2 Samuel 13) was just a later addition by someone who wanted to include it in Genesis but couldn't find a proper place, so he decided to just put it between the texts that later make up chapters 37 and 39. It simply interrupts what would otherwise be a (kinda) seamless part of the Joseph story where Joseph himself is taken into Egypt and sold as a slave to Potiphar.
@@InquisitiveBible On a related note, Bible Gateway has since replaced the NRSV translation of the Bible with the New Revised Standard Version Updated Edition (NRSVUE) which instead of translating "ketonet passim" as a "long robe with sleeves" it's "an ornamented robe". In truth I assume either version can be somewhat correct as we don't know the exact meaning of "ketonot passim", but I felt like pointing it out. Whatever garment Joseph was wearing, it definitely wasn't something cheap or commonly worn, and indeed probably used to emphasize Jacob's nepotism towards Joseph and adding the brothers' reasoning towards despising him.
@@devinsmith4790 Great timing, right? I noticed the updated NRSV translation literally the day I finished the video. I think the new translation is motivated by much of the same scholarship my video relies on, and it recognizes that nothing can really be said about the robe's appearance other than that it was visually special in some way.
@@InquisitiveBible One thing I did notice is that it's the first translation (that I know of at least) which double bracket certain verses in the OT, for example Judges 6:7-10 which they did because surviving fragments of Qumran ms didn't had that it. But yeah there is something special about Joseph robe even if we don't know exactly what.
@@InquisitiveBible Apologies if I'm bugging you, I had no plans on responding to you again but I want to know: In your pdf where you color coded the verses based on what certain scholars consider to be later additions to the Joseph story you have in an annotation "Redford (1970, p. 184) believes these verses are part of the Judah-redaction (marked in green in this document)." but strangely there was no green text anywhere near it. I tried looking for that study by Redford to see what you were talking about, but sadly there's no copy available for free online nor a preview that provided me the ability to view p. 184. The only guess I have is that you meant vv. 54 and/or 57 of Genesis 41. Is that correct? And if not please explain what verses exactly Redford and you meant as probably a Judah redaction.
If there are hellenistic anachronisms in the Joseph story, what does this mean for the composition of the pentateuch? Do you plan to do a video covering the composition of the pentateuch? My personal view on the pentateuch's composition is a mix of Van Seters supplementary hypothesis and the fragmentary hypothesis, I believe the supplementary material added on was derived from fragmentary sources, so I'm very interested in your opinion on the matter.
Great question, M767. I don't have a firm bird's-eye view of how it all came together yet, but that is a topic I need to cover eventually. It will be a challenge, since I will have to tackle an enormous volume of scholarship going back more than a century.
great vid! at 33:00 when you say the name joseph is associated with the land of israel, what is the source of this claim? is it just from the biblical narratives? anywhere specific?
Quite a few places scattered through the Old Testament. For example, Psalm 78:67 uses Joseph to represent Israel (the northern kingdom) in contrast to Judah. Psalm 77:15 and 80:1 also refer to Israel as Joseph. And in numerous other passages (2 Samuel 19:20, Amos 5:6, Obadiah 1:18, and so on), the name "House of Joseph" is used to represent Israel or some kind of territorial polity that existed within Israel. You can read a bit more about that here if you want: wp.me/p4jfyy-jRb More generally, the invention of the idea that Ephraim and Manasseh, the tribes that represent the largest and most central portions of Israel, were descended from Joseph, is a way of identifying the name Joseph with the northern kingdom.
@@InquisitiveBible great article! The idea of the house of joseph being a powerful multi-polity entity during the early Iron Age, and having a role in the formation of the kingdom of Israel is very interesting. I wonder what the future of archaeology holds for these subjects.
The sun moon and stars bowing to joseph represent the authority he was given by pharoh (who worshipped the sun, moon and stars), Yahweh took charge, through his vessel Joseph. The corn eating the corn was a metaphor for the famine. Why couldn't there have been a famine in the land of Caanan at the same time as egypt? This would result in Israel (Jacob)bringing the tribe to Egypt which would fulfill the prophecy of josephs dream of his brothers bowing down before him, indicated by the sheaves of wheat bowing down to him in his dream.
Thanks for the comment. That's an interesting idea about the sun, moon, and stars, but it seems unlikely for a few reasons. (1) The Egyptians worshiped Sirius (as the goddess Sopdet) but not the stars in general. (2) Why eleven stars? If they don't represent the eleven brothers, it's a remarkable coincidence. (3) Why give Jacob's interpretation if it's incorrect? As noted, God only works indirectly through dreams in the story. The topic of idolatry and foreign gods is never brought up, and Pharaoh even discusses God with Joseph as if he was a monotheist, so I don't see any subtext about the gods of Egypt in these passages.
@@InquisitiveBible God's people were always refer to as... like stars.(which would make sense of the brothers bowing down before Joseph) I thought the Egyptians worshipped the sun and the moon... Ra and Amun.
Are you suggesting Joseph was not a prisoner held against his will? That certainly doesn't square with the text in its final form. There's also still the problem of whether or not the keeper of the prison and the captain of the guard (Potipher) were the same person.
Joseph was not a "Jew". He was the youngest of the 12 sons of Jacob. Judah, was the eldest. He was also the one who proposed selling Joseph as a slave to the caravanners heading to Egypt.
Thanks for the comment, Bruce. I don't believe anything in my video contradicts your observations. I describe the story as Jewish, but not any of the characters within the story.
Another great video! I'm so impressed with the way you research so thoroughly and present the information so clearly and concisely. This is a great way to introduce the issues of the documentary hypothesis, and I'll recommend it to my students.
Thank you very much for the kind words.
The production value in this is amazing
Thanks!
100 % and in a such details )
Dude. This video was so good. I mean not just the content but how you present it. Your style of videos remind me of something that I would have seen on PBS growing up. Keep it up man, as someone who has found you recently I absolutely love this channel.
Thanks for the nice comment!
This channel and your blog are amazing. I hope you blow up one day, because you definitely deserve it.
Thanks!
Honestly, reading Joseph's imprisonment in Egypt makes it sound like there are only like 5 people living in Egypt or they can't afford any extras for the production, so everyone doubles up on roles
Really great stuff, I'm doing my PhD on a diachronic reading of the Joseph Story at the moment so thoroughly enjoyed your video. Have you read Franziska Ede's work on Joseph? Her thesis Die Josefsgeschichte is in German, but she has several more accessible articles in English (The Literary Development of the Joseph Story, and The Joseph Story: Diaspora Novella - Patriarchal Story - Exodus Narrative).
I'm somewhat convinced of her main thesis which is that the original Diaspora novella is broadly 37-45 (sans 38-39) and that the original story ended in 45. The majority of material from 46-50 is concerned with the tribal details and the connection to the Exodus. I suspect the 2nd reconciliation in 50 is a reworking of the first reconciliation episode rather than an original conclusion to the Joseph story - perhaps by the Genesis editor (as it seems to deal with the problem of generational violence, something that would have been foreign to the diaspora novella).
There's also a substantial number of Mesopotamian connections which I find quite curious. Gilgamesh also features a seven year famine and Ishtar (associated with Shepherding and depicted in beautiful clothing) stores up grain like Joseph. Esarhaddon's rise to power also depicts him as a young son, surprisingly elevated over his brothers who jealously conspire against him causing him to flee to a foreign land. Definitely some common motifs in the air at the time.
Also in regards to the enslavement of Egypt, I think I sit with Mark Brett that this may have been a critique against Joseph, painting him as a harsh ruler. Perhaps specifically to critique the adoption of Persian power by Ezra to enforce harsh laws.
Great job on the production too, I know how long a video like this would have taken to produce!
Hey, thanks for the comment. Having the opportunity to do a PhD thesis on this topic sounds fascinating.
Regarding Franziska Ede, I don’t think I have access to her thesis, but I did read the other article you mention (“Literary Development…”) in preparation for the video. In the end, I chose to concentrate on the earlier parts of the story and didn’t need to dive into her views of chapters 46-50. My comment in the introduction about Joseph bridging two different origin traditions is something she remarks on (reviewing my research notes, I see that I highlighted it), although she’s obviously not the only one to have made that observation.
Regarding the other stuff, yeah, it’s an abundance of riches. Ultimately, there is nothing else to connect the plots of the Gilgamesh Bull of Heaven story with Joseph aside from the seven-year famine and Ishtar’s preparations, so I decided to leave it out when there are closer Egyptian parallels at hand. I think the Esarhaddon story may have some influence on the fraternal conflict plot, but I couldn’t come up with a good way to work it in. I think “in the air” is a good way to describe some of these motifs.
@@InquisitiveBible Haha well fascinating is one word, so much to read haha. I look forward to watching more of your videos.
I can't help but think that the Judah and Tamar story (though most likely influenced from the story about the other Tamar found in 2 Samuel 13) was just a later addition by someone who wanted to include it in Genesis but couldn't find a proper place, so he decided to just put it between the texts that later make up chapters 37 and 39. It simply interrupts what would otherwise be a (kinda) seamless part of the Joseph story where Joseph himself is taken into Egypt and sold as a slave to Potiphar.
I think you're exactly right, Devin. The editor of Genesis wanted to include this tradition, and it really couldn't be put anywhere else.
@@InquisitiveBible
On a related note, Bible Gateway has since replaced the NRSV translation of the Bible with the New Revised Standard Version Updated Edition (NRSVUE) which instead of translating "ketonet passim" as a "long robe with sleeves" it's "an ornamented robe". In truth I assume either version can be somewhat correct as we don't know the exact meaning of "ketonot passim", but I felt like pointing it out. Whatever garment Joseph was wearing, it definitely wasn't something cheap or commonly worn, and indeed probably used to emphasize Jacob's nepotism towards Joseph and adding the brothers' reasoning towards despising him.
@@devinsmith4790 Great timing, right? I noticed the updated NRSV translation literally the day I finished the video. I think the new translation is motivated by much of the same scholarship my video relies on, and it recognizes that nothing can really be said about the robe's appearance other than that it was visually special in some way.
@@InquisitiveBible
One thing I did notice is that it's the first translation (that I know of at least) which double bracket certain verses in the OT, for example Judges 6:7-10 which they did because surviving fragments of Qumran ms didn't had that it. But yeah there is something special about Joseph robe even if we don't know exactly what.
@@InquisitiveBible
Apologies if I'm bugging you, I had no plans on responding to you again but I want to know: In your pdf where you color coded the verses based on what certain scholars consider to be later additions to the Joseph story you have in an annotation "Redford (1970, p. 184) believes these verses are part of the Judah-redaction (marked in green in this document)." but strangely there was no green text anywhere near it. I tried looking for that study by Redford to see what you were talking about, but sadly there's no copy available for free online nor a preview that provided me the ability to view p. 184. The only guess I have is that you meant vv. 54 and/or 57 of Genesis 41. Is that correct? And if not please explain what verses exactly Redford and you meant as probably a Judah redaction.
Just found this channel today thanks to someone sharing it on Discord. Great stuff! Instant sub!
Thanks, and welcome!
Exceeded my expectations! Plan to revisit, again and again. Thank You friend...
Your videos are always so well done, and you explain things so clearly.
Quite a labor of love... thanks. LOTS of good insights.
You are grossly underrated
New video day!
This is another masterpiece
@@dpredie Thanks, I appreciate it. It was tough getting this one out with everything going on.
great job!
Thanks!
If there are hellenistic anachronisms in the Joseph story, what does this mean for the composition of the pentateuch? Do you plan to do a video covering the composition of the pentateuch? My personal view on the pentateuch's composition is a mix of Van Seters supplementary hypothesis and the fragmentary hypothesis, I believe the supplementary material added on was derived from fragmentary sources, so I'm very interested in your opinion on the matter.
Great question, M767. I don't have a firm bird's-eye view of how it all came together yet, but that is a topic I need to cover eventually. It will be a challenge, since I will have to tackle an enormous volume of scholarship going back more than a century.
great vid! at 33:00 when you say the name joseph is associated with the land of israel, what is the source of this claim? is it just from the biblical narratives? anywhere specific?
Quite a few places scattered through the Old Testament. For example, Psalm 78:67 uses Joseph to represent Israel (the northern kingdom) in contrast to Judah. Psalm 77:15 and 80:1 also refer to Israel as Joseph. And in numerous other passages (2 Samuel 19:20, Amos 5:6, Obadiah 1:18, and so on), the name "House of Joseph" is used to represent Israel or some kind of territorial polity that existed within Israel. You can read a bit more about that here if you want: wp.me/p4jfyy-jRb
More generally, the invention of the idea that Ephraim and Manasseh, the tribes that represent the largest and most central portions of Israel, were descended from Joseph, is a way of identifying the name Joseph with the northern kingdom.
@@InquisitiveBible great article! The idea of the house of joseph being a powerful multi-polity entity during the early Iron Age, and having a role in the formation of the kingdom of Israel is very interesting. I wonder what the future of archaeology holds for these subjects.
Nice
Hi, Just wondering what are your credentials.
The sun moon and stars bowing to joseph represent the authority he was given by pharoh (who worshipped the sun, moon and stars), Yahweh took charge, through his vessel Joseph. The corn eating the corn was a metaphor for the famine. Why couldn't there have been a famine in the land of Caanan at the same time as egypt? This would result in Israel (Jacob)bringing the tribe to Egypt which would fulfill the prophecy of josephs dream of his brothers bowing down before him, indicated by the sheaves of wheat bowing down to him in his dream.
Thanks for the comment. That's an interesting idea about the sun, moon, and stars, but it seems unlikely for a few reasons. (1) The Egyptians worshiped Sirius (as the goddess Sopdet) but not the stars in general. (2) Why eleven stars? If they don't represent the eleven brothers, it's a remarkable coincidence. (3) Why give Jacob's interpretation if it's incorrect?
As noted, God only works indirectly through dreams in the story. The topic of idolatry and foreign gods is never brought up, and Pharaoh even discusses God with Joseph as if he was a monotheist, so I don't see any subtext about the gods of Egypt in these passages.
@@InquisitiveBible God's people were always refer to as... like stars.(which would make sense of the brothers bowing down before Joseph) I thought the Egyptians worshipped the sun and the moon... Ra and Amun.
@@marshamallow5329 Ra and Khonsu were the sun and moon deities.
@@InquisitiveBibleok, I see that. khonsu was the son of amun.
Potiphar knew his wife was lying, an so, instead of killing Joseph, he puts him in charge of the prison.
Are you suggesting Joseph was not a prisoner held against his will? That certainly doesn't square with the text in its final form. There's also still the problem of whether or not the keeper of the prison and the captain of the guard (Potipher) were the same person.
@@InquisitiveBible Of course Joseph was held against his will.
Cyrus the Great is much later than Joseph, as was Herodotus.
The question is not when these people/characters lived, but when their respective stories were written and circulated.
Joseph was not a "Jew". He was the youngest of the 12 sons of Jacob. Judah, was the eldest. He was also the one who proposed selling Joseph as a slave to the caravanners heading to Egypt.
Thanks for the comment, Bruce. I don't believe anything in my video contradicts your observations. I describe the story as Jewish, but not any of the characters within the story.
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