F-302 Fighter-Interceptor vs Earthforce Starfury | Babylon 5 vs Stargate
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ต.ค. 2024
- In this video, we will be reviewing the F-302 Fighter-Interceptor against the Starfury to find out which one is the better fighter. Would these two fighter do well in a dogfight or in a one-on-one fight?
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I think Thunderbolt is a better match to F-302 because of atmosperic flights. Agree with results
Yeah the problem with the startup it's purely a space combat craft not capable of inter atmospheric flight. That's major capability gap.
Starfury is such a great design for a spacefighter
Thanks for doing the video. I agree with your analysis, though I'd like to mention a few details.
The F-302 is equipped with a jamming device that makes it invisible to radar, though this could be countered if the Starfury possess the upgraded sensors that enables it detect Minbari ships. Speed is a major advantage for the F-302, the craft is able to accelerate at greater velocities due to its inertial dampeners allowing pilots to handle higher g-forces. The Starfury's maneuverability is far more impressive, but it's four thrust engines can also be a serious liability if one them gets damaged in battle.
The Starfury is designed for space fighting only, vs the F-302 designed for space & atmospheric fighting. The Earthforce Starfury was designed to fight very well in space fights for its age of being a few centuries from now alongside the Babylon space stations, versus the F-302 designed for atmospheric & space combat, of the modern age in the Stargate franchise universe.
What people are missing is the F302's are always given missiles the starfuries do not run them default, in a space battle over distance the F302s have a massive advantage even though i like starfuries better, they'd need to hide somewhere and engage in close range of which they'd reverse the tide completely, being able to turn 360 on a dime and change thrust direction would catch most pilots off guard and even knowing to watch for it.. it wouldn't help.
Starfuries can be loaded with missiles, not just thunderbolts if its a range missile firing contest its just a sea of missles- Though its possible the Starfuries could intercept some with its main cannon- or "evade to the side" with quick random direction changes i doubt most pilots are skilled enough to do so.
in Scifi missiles seem to travel at super slow speed, and be completely underpowered, but in space missiles would turn so quick it'd be very difficult to evade them.
I don't believe hyperspace generators were put onto the base models.
I think it'd also depend if the starfuries could take down missiles using their pulse weapons like when them firing confused targeting on a planets surface, also since starfuries can sit out of atmosphere and shoot down into planets its possible they bait the f302's into a space battle even when defending a planet.
@@dawfydd The problem is that missiles dont use thrust vectoring as the main form of changing directions, they have fins that use air pressure to change direction, so in space they are worthless. Even if you have thrust vectoring nozzles on the missiles, its ability to turn is extremely low.
@@dawfydd I have to note that the Starfury is interception-capable. It's targeting computer can and did intercept projectiles, as shown in "Point of no Return", so if the F302 decided to blow its missile load at range, since the missiles fly straight at the target, I'd say all of the will be intercepted.
@@admiralcasperr Ah, but if it were 100% then in engame and i forget the episodes name, when control of the planet below was in question two parter, the missiles still went for the shuttle and they were just distracting the missiles not shooting them all down, and in endgame missiles still got through despite flying past many snub fighters that should've been able to shoot them down in that case.
Missiles have much less mass Tim G even in space making a turn is much easier, and you have to assume both Earth alliance and Stargate(and related missile makers) put in ways of turning the missile in space otherwise they invented a very avoidable torpedo, even if that is a couple of control surfaces at the end of the missile that allow slight cone shape changes (based on computer control) of adjusting thrust so the missile changes direction.
the missles we see in scifi are just like the hyperspace tech, there is a level of understanding that it must work to make the universe believable.
And i still do think Starfuries would be overwhelmed with the volume of missile fire, possible flanking shots before the F302's came into range, in open space.. with something to block view or close in on.. Starfuries will come out ahead imo.
But SG1 has Startrek movement syndrome where everything moves like a jetfighter would in atmosphere while moving in space
Also, bear in mind that the rail guns do offer the F-302 nearly unlimited range in space and if the Starfury is unable to detect the firing of these hypersonic projectiles then they are about to quickly be in for a rude awakening.
If I were describing the fighters as people; f-302 would be a marksman with a rifle and a pistol, while the starfury would be a ballerina with an uzi and a knife. "Let’s dance" kinda deal. Also the SA-43 Hammerhead would be the grumpy old vet on the sidelines that everyone forgets has a sniper rifle, but can’t see too good anymore.
Lol. Love the description
The F-302 is marksman with a Sniper Rifle that also happens to have a hellfire missile launcher.
In an actual engagement, the 302 carries missiles it’s going to go fox three before the star fury is ever in range to engage it.
@@Matt-yg8ub it would be spectacular to see a video comparing and contrasting these wonderful things at that level of detail. Dont get me wrong. I love the F-302. I hope they make that video.
It would be more interesting to see a match up between the F-302 and the SA 43 Hammerhead since both are very similar.
302 would cream the Hammerhead.
Sorry please correct me if I am wrong but a "standard" F-302 didn't have a hyper drive. There was only one F-302 equipped an experimental hyper drive... and we all know how that ended!
Yes, it entered hyperspace to shield hop and took out Anubis superweapon on his command carrier in the Season 7 opening episode "Fallen". Or do you mean the prototype F-302 from the Season 6 opening 2 part episode "Redemption" which was lost when it entered hyperspace to get the Stargate away from Earth before it detonates causing an Extinction Level Event.
@@garethdavies8004 Yes, you're right I forgot about that other occasion they've used an F-302 to do a hyper jump. If I recall it correctly that drive used unsafe/unstable "Naquadria" (hope I got the spelling right) they never managed to use it safely so they abounded the whole idea. In other words the average/stand F-302 doesn't have a hyper drive.
What separates this fighter from others in the Babylon 5 universe- and other sci-fi factions- is having the ability to do a full 180 degree spin within seconds
*eyebrows in Viper*
My opinion is that you missed something with the 302. That short range hyperjump capability can disengage from an enemy just as easily as it can shorten the distance to engagement. This means that the 302 can jump in launch several attacks and jump out removing the close range combat aspect.
What this means is that the 302 can eliminate the distance between it and the target launch attacks then gain distance just as quickly removing itself from close quarters combat before the enemy can reengage it. It can also rinse and repeat from different angles of attack.This places the 302 in the same position a modern jet fighter would have against a byplane. The byplane may have machine guns capable of damaging the jet fighter. These machine guns however are useless if the jet fighter doesn't stay in range long enough to be engaged.There is a reason propeller planes and short range dogfights were eliminated in favor of long distance and fast fly by engagements in modern aerial warfare.
Another point for the 302. 2 actually. 1st] the 302 is supposed to have either stealth composite skins or rely solely on ECW radar jamming tech for stealth. Depending on whether the starfury's sensor system can defeat that ecw system or not can give the "first shot" advantage to the tauri vessel.
2nd point] I think your not giving enough damage credit to the rail guns on 302's. A rail gun used in space can be used to "snipe" or fire bursts against your target at extreme sensor range. Something to consider.
Yeah projectile weapons have infinite range in space and those Railguns are shooting a projectile at close to Mach 6, or about 1.5km/s.
You forgot the inertia compensators. The fighter that has those can accelerate at a higher rate of speed. Make sharper turns. If they're out of position, they can take g-forces. That would turn a pilot to mush to get back into position with no ill effects.
The F-302 was undoubtedly refitted with ion engine technology purchased from the planet Hebridon (in exchange for a Stargate). This would explain why the two 'jet' engines can now burn in deep space (as seen in SG-1/Atlantis episodes after "Space Race").
I want to thank you for remembering and factoring in the F-302's short jump capacity. Many I've seen forget that
Both are evenly matched, but one item that was not mentioned for the 302 is that it has inertia dampers, that gives the 302 pilot a huge advantage in dog fighting.
Yes and no, the F302 can speed up and slow down fast, but because of it's engine design it can not turn well in space. Inertia is not the issue there, it's lack of manoeuvring thrusters. That is exactly the thing that makes the Starfury so deadly, they can change direction on a dime. While they are limited by what their pilots can handle in the way of G forces, they can spin around and shoot at targets behind them, or above them, or below, or any other direction you can think of. That also makes them harder to track because they will face one way while traveling another and then can change the direction of travel very fast.
In a battle off attrition the Starfurry wins hands down, as both its range is far superior to the F-302 and it uses energy based weapons which don't run out. The main issue we see with the F-302 in the show is it runs out of ammo and missiles.
The F-302 also has inertial dampers, preventing a lot of the Gforce that the Starfury has to deal with.
in the end I say it would come down to who fires first, and how many there are, Starfurys fly and attack in formations, while the F-302 is more like modern dog fights.
I agree with the analysis. I think the F302’s are superiorly armed at distance and the atmospheric flight capability is superior as well. However, the Star fury is quite a bit more maneuverable and it’s armaments are close enough to the F302 to make it a deadly match especially at closer ranges and the thunderbolt basically fixes the few weaknesses the Star furies have making it the ultimate winner
Unfortunately the general instability of the F302 hyperdrive makes it not as significant of an advantage as it potentially could be and the really heavy and dangerous armaments are more specialized and not standard but the missiles in particular help make it a dangerous fighter to face
I like the video, but you did miss one point. The 302 has a limited ammunition capacity. This came into play during the show, several times, and shows that in a prolonged engagement the starfury would come out on top every time. This coupled with the fact that the pulse cannons can fire almost continuously.
"Tactics win battles, logistics win wars." - unknown
Starfuries also have limited battle time, it is around 2 hours at maximum combat operations, but it is something to remember.
@@Ishlacorrin You are correct. The difference I was trying to get at in the 302 burns through their ammo in a matter of minutes. Guess they would have to use thier warp drive after all.
One on one, the F302 carries missiles, the Starfury doesn’t, the F302 is a stealth craft, the star fury is not. The F302 has superior sensors, it’s going to see the starfury, engage the starfury and destroy the starfury before it even knows it’s there.
This is basically an F-16 going up against an F-22, the F-16 is powerful, but the F-22 is going to shoot its ass from beyond visual range and kill it before it even knows it’s in a fight
Only issue I have is giving the atmospheric fight 10 points, they are both meant to be space fighters and in both universes they were shown primarily in space. IMO top it off at 3 or 5 point scale to try to make up for it being a much less likely scenario. And the starfury simply couldn't engage there anyway if I recall correctly
The Starfury couldn't go into the atmosphere, the later Thunderbolt had extendable wings for atmospheric flight
Babylon 5 never had 'redshirts' to show the danger presented in any episode...
...that role fell squarely upon Starfury pilots instead. Tells you something about the survivability of a ship whose power reactor serves as the pilot's headrest.
Thunderbolt wins every time
Perhaps perhaps not these engagements all come down to the circumstances. Almost in all war that's what it comes down to.
Interesting comparsion
Awesome comparison! I would love to see the Borg vs the Shadows😎👍
He already made that video.
Thanks great topic.. 7 .2i subscribers congratulations.
Great video. I agree with your results and the way you handled it.
Honestly enough, I'd actually expect the Starfury Aurora to handle the F-302 better than a Thunderbolt could. The Aurora might not be atmospherically capable, but it gains an edge in space combat over the Thunderbolt because it didn't sacrifice some space superiority to gain in-atmo capability. And in all honesty, if you have an F-302 fighting a Starfury you likely also have their respective motherships fighting each other as well. That'd be a more interesting fight. A BC-304 against an Omega-Class in face to face combat. The 304 would have the speed advantage while the Omega would have the armor advantage.
BC-304's have a good shielding system as well though. I think an Omega would probably lose that one. While the missiles would be useless like they were against the wraith, the Rail guns would deal with an Omega's armour eventually and hit important parts. Meanwhile the Omega might have trouble getting through those shields since unlike Star Trek, the shields in Stargate are really strong. If it's just a stock ship with only the normal reactors then maybe, if they have a ZPM then no way.
I can't be absolutely sure but I think the X-302 had the hyperspace engine but the F-302 did not. The Naquadria proved unstable for interstellar travel making the drive nearly useless.
Atmospheric fights aside the Starfury would clean house with the X-302. It acts like an airplane in space, which means that it is very slow to maneuver and hard to turn fast. The starfury doesn't have to shift its trajectory to get its forward pointing guns to fire at an enemy, as it can turn in mid flight in any angle it desires. The 302 only has the hyperjump advantage, which is a small one as it takes time to activate. So unless they do indeed surprise a Starfury, it's chances of a win are very low. I would compare it to a fight between a WW2 flying fortress and large modern drone.
Could you please do the different fleets in the Farscape universe?
Sure. I'll add it to the list. Which fleet from the Farscape universe do you want to be analyzed first?
@Utopian Broadcast Thanks! I'd have to go with the Peacekeepers as my first choice. Thanks again!
Can you please do The Earth Federation from Space Battleship Yamato vs the United Earth From Star Trek and/or the The Earth Federation vs the Earth Alliance from Babylon 5?
Stargate's replicators vs Halo's flood.
I don't remember if the Starfury has inertial dampeners b/c I never watched Babylon, but the 302 has some decent ones, which would add to it's maneuverability. Though I do agree from what I do know about the Starfury, in a straight up dogfight would win.
If you were opposing the earth alliance as the centauri, what strategy would you implement to win?
Same goes for the dilgar if they had realised how much of a threat the earth alliance was?
For the Centauri, given that most of their time in the show was spent pinned down in wars and fearing Earth intervention, I'd have to say their canonical strategy of securing peace with the EA was the best move: the Centauri had too many military assets pinned down in wars of conquest or occupations, and had lost a lot of ships subduing the Barn and various League members; a war with Earthforce would be pretty one-sided. If this was before the Narn-Centauri conflict, then more direct military options might be practical, although invading the war-paranoid EA is probably going to be like catching a tiger by the tail
@@kevint1929
So as centauri minister of defence, what would be your strategy now you are at war?
😊👍
@@alanmike6883 I'd likely attempt to trick the Non-aligned races into helping my people fight EA. Use propaganda campaigns and the like to get an overwhelming amount of ships fighting the Human fleets.
Get deeper in bed with the Shadows lol
@@chrisdufresne9359
The ea could counter that they have never been imperialistic unlike the centauri 😊👍
wait for B5 reboot, JMS might not be a military expert but im guessing gonna have some very interesting new stuff, hopefully
I can't agree with your results because you missed a couple of important points. (First, however - please call the ship the 'Aurora'. She's the Mark 2, yes - but it makes no sense to insist on 'Thunderbolt' if you won't use 'Nova' and 'Aurora'.) Anyway, in a H2H between the Aurora and the Thunderbolt, you forget that the 302's missile capability is negated by the ability of the Aurora's pulse-cannons to rapid-fire with AREA-effect bursts, thus allowing the fighter long-range anti-missile capability (and also allowing for the Aurora to engage 302s in-atmosphere without entering themselves). Watch 'A Voice In The Wilderness, Parts 1& 2' to see this in action. Also, as Aurora pilots have to deal with races who have vessels capable of traversing hyperspace on their own, the ships have sensors that are capable of detecting hyperspace folds opening in their vicinity. Pair that with the Aurora's ability to engage tactically within three dimensions, and the 302's limited hyperspace-window ability can suddenly become a major liability, for the Aurora can move in directions that are unexpected for pilots trained for standard atmospheric combat... and equally lethal. It's a testament to Tau'ri training and technology that 302 pilots are so deadly in combat - but the final thing you overlook is that (like Khan) 302 pilots are trained to think in TWO dimensions when it comes to combat, not THREE (as Aurora pilots are)... and this, along with the maneuverability and heavier weapons of the Aurora (which can also carry missiles) means that more often than not, the 302 is in a fight it can't win. The Aurora can neutralize its missiles, it is more maneuverable in combat, her weapons hit harder, she can react faster to attack from unexpected directions and unless the 302 uses a hyperspace window to jump there, running to atmosphere still won't stop her from taking hits from the Aurora. They're both excellent fighters, but in a head-to-head where all other factors are equal (as Spacedock pointed out with their head-to-head with the Viper Mark 2)... the Starfury Aurora is the winner.
Who would win in a war long and short term if centauri fought the earth alliance and league of non world + Narn..
Can you make a video about F-402 and Tie fighter witch is better?
im guessing future EA missiles are gonna have some fancy seekers.
could launch a few missiles where you think f302 is gonna come out of hyper space and boom, make a strength a blind spot.
some modern missiles if a target is destroyed or loses lock on they seek a new target, future missiles very probably will have a linger ability, like a mine that shoots at you when your close
Only the prototype F-302 have the naquadria hyperspace window generator. And Have too many issues to be equipped on all F-302... It was only mentioned/used on TWO episodes, and never mentioned again.
its plot armour thats wins the F302 wins simply because of its hyperspace short jump, it simply approaches, jumps in, fires it missiles and jumps back out from whatever angle it chooses to bunny hoping around the combat area, and without it the starfury is the better fighter in all really life technical aspects
Wait, F302 uses AIM 120A missles? Which are only useable in atmosphere because it doesn't use venturi or maneuvering thrusters, but uses fins to change direction. That would take its' long range strike out of play in space, leaving the railguns as the only offensive punch. Plus, the F302 seems to use fuel based engines, which means it has a limited range and loiter time. All the wikis and Stargate databases I found do not state otherwise. The Death Gliders it was based off of seem to have a better space capability, since it is based off a high energy system, naquadah based.
If I'm wrong, please enlighten me and show some links where the correct info can be found.
Stargate modified the missiles for use in space.
Yeah, but what about the craft from "The Last Starfighter"?
Should have gone with the Thunderbolt model Starfury as more easily matched
Starfury is so classy.. Such nice space physics in Bab 5
F-302 has potential, they could have installed 4-8 Goa'uld staff weapons in it, to create a machine gun of plasma effect - that would give them a longer lasting weapon with endurance..
It's just a shame the F-302 can't use a Stargate, or even be wheeled through one sideways..
I don't think 20th century weapons would do well against Earthforce tactics and armour..
Starfury can't operate in atmosphere. So that's a unfair test.
4:18 Plus that it looks like a Goa'uld Death Glider.
The f-302's ftl engine never worked properly so that is a non issue,but the 302 wins because it has missiles longer ranged then the fury's energy weapons enabling kills before it gets into range and the same goes for the rail guns as they DON'T lose energy as they travel distance unlike the fury's pulse cannons,if the fury could get within range ONE strafe would kill a 302 based on power.
The thunderbolt had missiles so I agree with space expire's comment it would be a better match up.
But it won’t get in range because the F302 is considerably faster given that it has inertial dampening technology that won’t crush the pilot. The only advantage that the Starfury possesses is is its greater ammunition capacity, the 302 is a stealth fighter with longer range guided weapons, and better sensors.
This is a BVR engagement.
I know the great Lord of Lore that is Star Trek is looking at you but, ..... a look at fighters in the Trek universe would be nice with a cross on other realities in Sci Fi would be nice. Not just an over view and a head-to-head but there practicality in there given realms. Just a thought.
F-302 is an atmospheric plane that is spaceworthy with a hyperspace jump engine - Starfury is a short range designed for space fighter - they are not comparable
In atmosphere the F-302 wins easily .. but the Starfury wouldn't be in the fight
In space first hit would win - but in combat the Starfury would outflank and out manoeuvre the F-302 with no issues at all
They are simply not comparable ... the thunderbolt is a cludge ...
How is this even contest? Starfury uses Newtonian physics, F302 uses exotech for propulsion. Starfury is space only, you should have used Thunderbolt for this comparison, that one is atmospheric. Standard Starfury is single pilot vessel, unless you want to compare two seater with a gunner in the back that does not have improved engines so greated mass slows acceleration compared to standard configuration Starfury. F302 is two seater for additional systems it has on board, most of which are not relevant for dogfight like this. Starfury uses common metallic alloys for the hull armor, Naquada does not exist in B5 universe. F302 does NOT have hyperspace capability, that was design intent, but had to be removed from production version after prototypes were unable to handle Naquadria power generators without increasing the vessel mass for extra systems to handle energy fluctuations. Starfury has 6 missles for space combat, F302 4 of missles used in both space and in atmosphere, but not as agile in space environment as Starfury´s armaments due to extra mass for control surfaces for atmospheric flight. F302 is capable of flying backwards due to maneuvering thrusters it has, just not accelerating in that direction. Starfury can only accelerate to the speed that would not harm the pilot, for example afterburner function is hard capped by manufacturer to maximum G human can bear so some idiot would not kill himself with it, F302 has inertial dampeners that allow it to accelerate to full engine capacity without endangering the crew. And because of the engines that disregard inertia F302 does not have to take into account existing speed and direction affecting it when turning, while Starfury has to use thrusters to stop or alter it´s momentum when it is undesirable, so sudden change in flight direction is impossible. So yes, Starfury can turn on a dime much faster than F302 and then continue maneuver while firing in different direction without significant drop in performance, but F302 can still fly circles around it much faster and before Starfury can significantly alter course F302 would have a firing solution on it. Similar to F302 is Centauri fighter but that does not have internal dampeners and Sheridan was still worried about facing them so he drilled his squadrons as much as he could, since Centauri had onboard AI that could finish a maneuver when Centauri blacked out due to G force. And due to the fact that Centauri ships still have to deal with inertia F302 has advantage over them too in maneuverability. Just because Starfuri is able to turn on a dime does not mean it can maneuver at that speed too and immediatelly continue forward in new direction, it has to stop existing momentum first. F302 can maneuver at the same speed it turns. So superior maneuverability is with F302 not Starfury. And while Thunderbolt is better than Starfury, it still has to deal with same newtonian physics so F302 still has advantage.
I dont know if this is an entirely fair comparison between the Starfury and the F-302. The F-302 is entire retro-engineered from Alien technology (based on the Death Glider). I'm not convinced the Starfury has the same level of alien technology boost to the same degree as the F-302.
That being said it is a common misconception for rockets to actually hit a target. Most just explode close enough to the target and shower in with shrapnel. This makes it far easier to cause damage than requiring a hit. The armor of the Starfury is quite heavily armored for a space fighter and that could very well lower the effectiveness of the F-302 missles. There is a reason after all, why Starfuries in the B5 hardly ever use rockets in space fights. The only time we actually see fighter missles being used was during the bombardement of Mars colony buildings during Clarke's reign to crush a rebellion. Now, that might have just been a budget reason for SFX team back then; but it might must as well be because to score a direct hit against an enemy is very hard when they can dodge very easily; and indirect missles that explode close to the target just don't do enough damage to knock an enemy reliably out.
This is awesome! It is basically what happened over the skies of Vietnam. The American F-4 had the speed and ranged missile weapons, the F-302 in the video. The North Vietnamese had the MiG-17 which was more maneuverable, with a harder hitting close ranged weapon.
In that real war, it almost always came down to the pilot, and who was better. I think your battle, given how close you rated them and their differences, would end the same way, who is the better pilot?
True, its really up to who's the better pilot.
Yeah I think that’s about right
Altho the 302 could in theory make also quick consecutive jumps to evade and outmanoeuvre the starfury
But that would be so difficult to keep track of where you are
Anyway you gotta respect that the 302 is literally the first fully functional interstellar tau'ri fighter and for that I think they did p well
Several engagements with Pirate Raiders the Star Fury were not that impressive compared to F 302 against a Wraith Dart with superior speed and rate of fire to a Star Fury.
In space the Star Fury should absolutely wreck the 302 and since they can’t do atmosphere then obviously the 302 would win there
I could’ve misheard, by I think you said “Republic of China”. That’s the official name of Taiwan. Mainland China is called the People’s Republic of China. Confusing, I know
Note: Starfuries are quite often used to intercept incoming enemy fire.. Query: could they intercept the long range fire of the rail guns?
Unlikely- the mass of fire the railgun puts out would likely overwhelm a Starfury's PDF capabilities. (I tend to think the reason the Thunderbolt's plasma emitter was made for rapid fire was to overcome enemy PDF- as well as providing a more consistent PDF platform.)
does the guy that asked you know Babylon and Babylon 5 are 2 different shows/movies??
I'm aware, I simply forgot to put the 5.
Forgeting the Missles ⁉️
You are quite incorrect on the pulse cannon type. They are based on recovered Dilgar pulsar technology...as the Dilgar were the race to develop the "Bolt/Pulsar" weapon class. They are all Particle based. Plasma weaponry would make them sadly short ranged. Particle weapons are present in most fighters...with light particle guns on the majority...with the Vree, (Anti-Matter) Pak-Mara (Plasma), Hyach (Laser), Brakiri (Graviton) Cascor (Ion) and Minbari (Fusion), Grome (Matter/Massdriver) Kor-Lyann (Usually just missile platforms), Ipsha (Electromagnetic) notable exceptions
F302s hands down shits all over the Starfury. It's faster, has greater acceleration and maneuverability and can do High G turns that would leave Starfury pilots a puddle of organic goop on the inside of their cockpits. We're talking in excess of 50 to 100G turns. This level of performance is so far above a Starfury, even a Thunderbolt couldn't compete. It's absurdly in the 302s favor.
The only thing the Starfury has going for it is its weapons load out. But it's not enough to tip the scales in any meaningful way.
Acceleration it has yes, deceleration and manoeuvrability they do not have at all. The design of the F302 does not allow for fast turns in space, they lack powerful enough thrusters in other directions for that. The F302s must make wide sweeping arcs in space because of their design, basic physics. They have inertial dampeners to help their pilots survive but that does not help their ability to turn. They were designed to turn in atmo, not really space.
The F302 is no match for Starfury
The thing you are forgetting is that Starfury can shoot down the F-302 missiles as well spin 180 degrees in a sec
The F-302 has a lot of over technology
It’s possible… if the starfury was piloted by a hero character with plot shields, the size of a Minbari Sharlin…. But highly doubtful.
Speaking of Minari war cruisers …. This is the exact same kind of situation, the F302 is a stealth aircraft and the star ferry will have a hell of a time targeting it.
@@Matt-yg8ub
The F-302 is no match for Star Fury main character or not
As for targeting
Yes during Earth-Minbari war , Starfury were limited to visual engaging Minbari
After the war, thanks the EA acquiring various pieces technology including tech from the Shadows, EA ships and fighter are able to target Minbari ships
If a NASA Space Shuttle took on a F22 it would get hammered & quickly. However in orbit it could be designed to deliver a variety of mass destruction. The F22 would be irrelevant against that threat. Humanity in B5 had already adjusted to both battles in the void or in atmospheric conditions. Stargate only gives us some bizarre mix of both. The effect of weapons in atmospheric conditions & in the vacuum are not the same. For me the Star Fury would annihilate Stargate's not so good in the vacumn design.
In this scenario, the F302 is the F22, the Starfury is an F-16 that’s going to get shot from beyond visual range and never even know what killed it.
Do you know those tens of thousands of star fairies that died in the Earth and war? Same problem, the F3 02 was built with stealth technology that makes it a son of a bitch to target…. And it carries sensor technology far greater than the Starfury.
@@Matt-yg8ub I love the comments as I enjoy intelligent replies such as yours. Thank you for your well thought out reply Matt.
Do all F-302s have naquadria drives? I thought just the X-302 prototype did, then they scrapped it for the serialized model
If I remember correctly a F-302 used its hyperdrive to bypass Anubis mothership shields.
@@UtopianBroadcast1 I remember the scene but I guess I assumed it was also a one-off
The f-302 has the range advantage. Missiles lock on range
Missiles are easy to shoot down though, it's literally one of the things the Fury is designed to do.
You cannot compare the 2 mate. The Star Fury is probably the best example of a Real Science Spacecraft in its design. So much so that N.A.S.A has the Ok from Micheal to actually use the design for worker bee's on the international space station and they will be called Star Furies. The Star Gate Flight Model is fake planes in space. Aero Dynamics in space are meaningless, the actual best design would be a cube with thrusters and weapons on all sides. A pilot would not be advisable for the Gforces you could create would pancake a biological. So A.I driven would be the way to go. You want to compare 2 Sci-Fi fighters like this then the Viper from BSG and the Star Fury which Space Dock did in their VS video series. Star Fury is a Space Superiority Fighter not a atmospheric fighter the F302 is a shit design for practical application. Tho is a fake situation i supose you should have used the Thunderbolt as it has Atmo capability but losses all of its bonuses in space combat. If you look at the standing pilot config in the Star Fury it is better for pilot gforces then a seated position for 1 example. I could go on and on mate, the fake plane in space model looks cool on screen like Star Wars, Star Gate even Star Trek to an extent. With Bab 5 tho you can see how a ship must have the thruster setup the fury has just to actually function like a real craft would have to have.
Well this is fiction but the Starfury is only meant for space combat while the F302 is designed for both inter outer atmosphere combat. They both have very different physics in terms of how you conduct air to air battles. Now we actually have doctrines for air combat for space combat thats where we get into the realm of fiction. However the design of the F302 makes sense for a multi domain air and space craft.
Starfury weapons were powerful enough to destroy Vorlon fighters with a quick burst. I doubt naquadah armor is superior to Vorlon tech
True, I doubt the F-302 can take a direct hit from pulse cannon. I also doubt the starfury can take direct fire from a railgun for long ethier. 🤷♂️
@@UtopianBroadcast1 probably not. Both are glass cannons
You forget one thing, the F-302 can also use the jump window to ESCAPE bad situations. If the pilot doesn't "like" a situation they can jump away for distance and try again. As well, the Inetial dampeners allow the F-302's to turn far far better as well as giving them a far greater thrust to mass ratio then the Star Fury. Sadly the F-302 is actually closer in abilities to the Membari fighter.
Points; On what scale? Really? You're like the Host of 'whose line is it?'.. He runs a Game Show now.
The F-302 is built using effectively current day tech with a bit of alien tech that was stolen and reversed engineering, The star fury is approximately 550 years more advanced its like putting a 1500's cannon up against a ballistic missile, it's a no contest starfury wins every time
Except that’s not even remotely true :-) F302’s regularly outperformed technology thousands of years, older, and supposedly more advanced.
Even if the 302 is an older fighter, it’s going into this engagement with the same sort of advantage the Minbari Nial has… the Statfury can’t target it because of its stealth. On top of that the rail guns are also an extremely stealthy weapon, and it carries long range standoff capability with its missiles.
The starfury is basically an F-16, while the F302 is an F22 raptor
I have to say 8 missiles vs. 4 missiles means the Aurora Starfury would win...
The hyperspace window generator was a design feature on the first F-302 and not on the standard production line model that was made in quantity. It was activated in an attempt at hyperspace travel but was auto aborted due to hyperspace instabilities inherent in elemental naquadria that powered it. It was used solo by O'Neil in a micro-jump to within the shields of Anubis' super ship. This was the only times it was used in the show.
Honestly they should bring the hyperdrives on the 302s back as the micro-jump capability would be huge in a dog fight.
Something to consider about the Starfury based on combat within B5, they can reach very fast speeds. At one point we have two forces of furies approaching each other and the distance is getting shorter by 1,000 km per second or so. That means both groups are traveling about 500 km/s to get into combat. Now that's nothing compared to the F302 hyperdrive, however the hyperdrive cannot be accurately targeted within close range. So only the initial approach would count and that is still likely to drop them outside combat range.
The F302 missile weapons would be useless at long range with how easy Starfury's can shoot down such things, but the rail guns technically have infinite range in space. They could start peppering the furies at long range and the furies would have to dodge because if they are traveling 500km/s (or even much less) and hitting something traveling 1.5km/s (Stargate says the railgun has a projectile speed of about Mach 5.8 which is close to 1.5km/s), then that weapon is deadly no matter their armour.
As you say though, once the battle gets to within close quarters dogfights, the furies have the major upper hand. The Thunderbolt is better tech wise than the Aura and obviously has in atmo capabilities, but in space they are not that different. The Thunderbolt looses some of it's ability to manoeuvre with the pilot placement so while having slightly less power in weapons the Aura has better agility.