What matters most when towing is aerodynamics (wind resistance) and speed. I tow a 1050lb camper (Prolite Mini) with my 2019 RAV4 hybrid but due to brutal wind resistance get 17mpg. And I drive 120kph (75mph). Note: I'm towing in Rocky mountains at moderate elevation.
Your absolutely correct. Two years ago my father towed his large 5th wheel camper trailer with a Ford 3.5L ecoboost from Quebec to the Yukon and back. His worst mileage was in the prairies with the strong head wind. His towing speed was 105 km/h. When he got to the rockies his mileage improved significantly even when towing in the mountain. The only reason for this was the lack of headwind. As you may know, drag increases by the square, so if you double your speed the draft force increases by a factor of 4.
Good post here. When towing, aerodynamic losses are much higher because the toad is typically shaped like a barn, which kills aero. And for some reason people feel they have to tow at 70 mph or more, which also increases the aero drag exponentially. It was nice to see Alex actually keeping his speed to 55 mph.
Bryan Mills i dont think the hybrid is worth it regardless of mpg differences. A fully loaded xlt awd is 50k, with the hybrid youre forced to get the limited trim, and a fully loaded hybrid limited awd is about 59k. To me, the xlt is all the luxury I would ever need, so it’d be a no brainer to get the 2.3.
@@carguyeyedoc Yep, the 2.3 has an advantage on towing too, 5300 vs 5000 for the hybrid. I actually like the base Explorer, wouldn't go any higher than XLT on trim, either.
Bryan Mills : at least with the hybrid you don’t have to deal with direct injection intake valve deposits, turbo (un)reliability, and engine failure from coolant loss.
I’d be willing to bet it’d fare the worst of the bunch. I have an 18 Exploder w/ the 2.3 and it gets 20mpg highway on a good day. I know a lot has changed about the car with the redesign. But in general that engine is pretty far off it’s EPA estimates.
Travis Smith th-cam.com/video/-9uS9eLsOEE/w-d-xo.html ehh maybe, watch this video of the new one. Maybe a little more information than needed, but does give you a rough look at the mpg gauge throughout the whole video
I'm in Texas, no way I'm doing 55 when towing. I usually get 9 to 10mpg towing my 7k travel trailer at 65mph with my 2017 Expedition EL. Can't wait to see how the new F150 hybrid does. Awesome seeing my favorite reviewers collaborating.
yeah, its important to get that load of manure and steer heads to the local school so the kids can have lunch... we know how YALL run things there in good ole Texas!
Great topic. I was interested into this especially for the upcoming hybrid Trucks. What do you expect for the new Powerboost F150? will it be better than V8 for towing?
Well, I like TFL but Roman isn’t as knowledgeable or as caring as you are about cars. He doesn’t have the passion. I get it because I do have the same passion as you. Keep going Alex. You’re the best out there
I have a 2015 Durango V6 RWD w factory trailer package. Normal driving at the various speed limits I get 23.5 mpg including mountains. When towing my 2700 pound popup camper my mileage drops only 3 to mpg average including mountains. I have towed it 6000 miles now. We are very pleased with the Durango. Our next tow vehicle will either be a V8 Durango AWD - or a Ram 1500 V8 e-tourque with full air ride.
I don’t get how Tommy says the Escape is way behind the RAV4. The Toyota gets 40 miles on battery and the Escape 37. Besides that, the electric awd and horsepower they are very similar. The Escape can also be had cheaper. Both Ford and Toyota have very very similar hybrid tech. So similar they cross licensed to stay out of court.
Tommy is right and I'm a Ford fan. The Escape plug in Hybrid in only FWD, but the Toyota is AWD. On top of that, the RAV4 is much faster. The 0-60 for the Toyota is about 5.7 and the Escape is 8.8. The icing on the cake is the Toyota gets better EV range. So ya the Ford Hybrid is WAY behind. The Ford will be lucky to sell a 1/4 of the RAV4s.
Hassan T Of course it does. The Toyota does everything WAY better. Faster, better range, more efficient and AWD. This all adds up to a much better hybrid system. Ford now needs to go back to the drawing board, just for the simple reason that they don’t have AWD.
Danny Bechamp 🤦🏽♂️ Ok dude. That makes no sense. Many people don’t care about any of that you listed. Yes some do. But does that make the Toyota way better 🙄. No.
Hassan T Okay what would it take for the Toyota to be way better then? You obviously don’t have a technical or mechanical back ground. As an engineer, I know its hard to engineer something that does everything better than your competitor. Toyota has done just that. Normally, when a vehicle is faster it’s less efficient. Since the Ford is only FWD it should be more efficient than the Toyota but it’s not. There is no reason why any sane person should consider the Escape over the RAV4. Name one thing that the Ford does better? Cheers and have a good evening.
Hello Alex, this is a good video showing real life fuel economy under high-load situations. I think the guy from Engineering Explained can hand-calculate your fuel economy numbers lol.
Explorer Hybrid seems perfect on paper, great combo of massive SUV and electrified powertrain. But it's so rare to see a video of it actually getting some towing data!
I would never touch a hybrid not made by Toyota, unless you seriously do your due diligence about the repairability of the batteries and the reliability of the transmission.
Do the MPG meters take into account the time you spend idling? My V6 RAV4 doesn’t count idling time. It says 17.1 mpg on the meter but in a pump calculation it gets 15.8.
Yes. When calculating miles/gallon, if the numerator is 0, then the m/g totals out to 0 as well. It is possible to burn an entire tank of fuel while traveling 0.0 miles.
Noooooo sorry disagree. Consistently lowered my volume at the beginning of his vids. This one is much more musically endearing, especially the chord change in the end.
@@normt430 I did review carfax for the car I bought - 57k miles, one owner, regular maintenance. Had the sunroof replaced due to leaks which gave me pause. I bought warranty through Toco but would recommend you price used car warranty through your local credit union, your terms and coverage will probably be better. Check engine light came on this past weekend towing a small, enclosed U-Haul trailer and then went off after driving without it. Have 60k mile service tomorrow, will have them look at it.
Norm T hey! Turns out prev owner bought a wear and tear maintenance plan that stays with the vin so I get free maintenance until 100k! Check engine was faulty O2 sensor, $500 but toco covered it, so I only had to pay $200 deductible.
Enjoyed the video and the comparison. I think it would be nice for you to incorporate towing MPG figures into all of your reviews of vehicles that advertise their towing capabilities and are sent to you outfitted with towing gear. I would have liked to have seen these numbers on your latest XC90 T8 review and other hybrids and PHEVs. If this is really the direction that car companies are heading for future vehicles it would be nice to see what the real world numbers will be if we want to tow. Cheers!
Great Choice Alex....to go with Ford Explorer. Same with me, leased Atlas just to wait for Explorer to be refreshed in 2020. Atlas has a horrible ride quality on highways with beefier 18in wheels...feels all the bumps...same issue with Pilot, Ascent. If Ford makes elec plugin Explorer, it would be a game changer.
The more weight and longer steady-state cruise you throw at a V8, the more its economy approaches the eco offerings. If you're going to tow and cruise, just get a V8. Alternately, if you're city or suburban driving in stop-and-go, pick the eco motor. Towing with the hybrid (or even a V6) should be thought of just like the emergency third row seat: yes, it works, but it is hugely compomised.
If you end up reviewing the 2021 chrysler Pacifica hybrid, could you comment on running the ac/heat overnight? A lot of van dwellers are curious whether it’s possible to use the vehicle in a sort of camping mode the way Tesla’s have. I know thenpacifica doesn’t officially have this mode but it’d be nice if there is a way to simulate that mode. Thanks for all your reviews. You’re my favorite car reviewer.
It did surprise me that the Durango was that close to it's EPA numbers. My internal fuel consumption calculator on my truck had to be recalibrated because it was off by 6.7%.
How often would you tow it? The savings when not towing might be worth your while. Also personally not a fan of small turbo engines from a reliability/maintenance stand point.
Alexander Paul 2 We’re looking to buy a fibreglass trailer, likely a 17 or 19 foot Escape. So that’s a dry weight of 3300 for the 19. Our current vehicle can’t tow, so we are looking at options. We’re probably going to stay a one car family, so a truck isn’t in the picture.
@@MapleYum, when your not towing you will be saving, when you are towing your not going to. But since it sounds like you you don’t tow to to much so the times that you do tow won’t be enough to really make a difference on a yearly average.
Towing that heavy, unaerodynamic trailer, I would expect almost no regen, except at low speeds or going down very steep hills. So, that efficiency advantage of the hybrid is negated. Since the Explorer hybrid has only a tiny electric motor, I wouldn't expect much help from the electric motor accelerating that heavy trailer, which negates that advantage. And, it's not an eCVT transmission and I doubt it's an Atkinson cycle engine. So, overall I would expect very little advantage from the hybrid when towing a large trailer.
@Jesus Perez I do, and that because i never had much of good luck. There's way too my state troopers on CA-99 & I-5 to be speeding with a trailer. One time when I was in California, i had a state strooper flashed me warning lights when i speed down the pass towards LA.
55 mph is dangerously slow in highways where people normally go 75 mph, at least here in Minnesota. I have no clue why it should be that low. even 18 wheelers can usually manage 65 mph
I am very happy with towing capability of my 2017 Durango R/T. Its also a great road tripper with fuel economy approaching 20 if I keep it under 70 and not towing. I don't think we are quiet there with capability vs fuel economy. So I am happy with Durango for towing and RAV4 hybrid 36 actual FE for every day driving.
@@bryanmills2295 Yes it would not, driving interstate empty v8 is also worse then empty v6, i don't like small engines for heavy and towing, but both v6 NA half ton trucks Ram and F150 i tried on interstate almost empty were doing nice 25, 26 mpg
According to Jayco and Keystone, their most popular trailers have a curb weight of between 3,000 and 3,500 pounds dry so this is in the right neighborhood and more important than a 500 to even 1,000 lb variance is the aero profile of the trailer which is more or less similar to a box trailer (in this case, a cargo box is generally squarer and less aerodynamic).
@@AAutoBuyersGuide Alex, you should go to their sites to see how small these light travel trailers are. Further, looking at your test, you purposely didn't challenge your Durango in order to keep the Explorer in play, just IMO. That 3500 lb capacity might be the sweet spot for the Explorer, but definitely the Durango's is higher than that by several thousand pounds.
But you also have to consider other variations from testing to affect the MPG rating because maby you have to drive 10mph behind a slow dump truck during your loop or maby you hit more red lights with one vehicle versus the other.
The tricky thing is, that before the cylinder activation/deactivation happens - engine consumes more fuel anyway due to power hunger. Adding to this that Durango can't "create" fuel out of thin air comparing to Hybrid - I am still think that Explorer will show better economy.
For towing anything heavier than that trailer and baring in mind that my 14ft Ifor Williams triple axle trailer weighs 2750lbs before any any cargo is loaded inside, I go for diesel every day. Not only is the torque so much higher at low revs per unit of swept volume, but the fuel efficiency is about 40% better when towing and about 25% better than gas when not towing but doing short journeys. Even for lighter vehicles I generally choose diesel. My twin turbo-diesel Honda CR-V, for instance, has a 4400lbs towing capacity, 160hp but 350Nm torque at 1600 rpm. It does not tow, because my trailers are too big and heavy duty for it, but in a similar area to yours; on hilly country two lane and some single lane roads, I get between 40 and 42mpg Imperial consistently. That's 35mpg US This is important when our litre of fuel costs approximately £1.15, which as a guess is $1.30 or so a quart or $5.20/US gallon very approximately. Should mention that my 2.2 diesel Ford Ranger pickup with six speed automatic, towing about 3.5 tons [daren't admit more] generally does about 18mpg UK and on my duty cycle an overall average over 60,000 miles of about 22mpg, which includes a whole lot of towing heavy loads. That's 15 towing and 18.5 overall. That's hard farm work of course and I remember a gas Range Rover Mk1 fuel injection did 15 on a journey and 10mpg US when towing. My 4.2 turbo diesel Land Cruiser 100 series uses just about the same amount of fuel as the Ranger when doing the same work, but the Ranger is capable of around 6mpg better on long unhurried trips unladen.
I tow a travel trailer and I want displacement. My 2019 Silverado 1500 has the 6.2L engine and 10 speed transmission. I can maintain 65 mph in the mountains and never exceed 3200 RPMs. There simply is no replacement for displacement.
@7:55...reality is, hardly anyone will buy the phev versions of RAV4 or escape. Those are mostly for auto journalists to talk about...sales volumes are microscopic. The standard hybrid versions are the ones people will buy in the real world and the ford is every bit as good, if not better than the Toyota.
Sometimes, the low MPG honey badger doesn't care. I had a 1977 F-250HD (complete with split rims) and I got 12MPG - whether it was empty or carrying a ton of gravel.
I would like to see that same comparison between the Toyota Sequoia and your Durango Citadel. I just don’t believe the Cylinder deactivation makes a big difference.
Alex on Autos I understand. In my Personal experience I owned a 2015 Ram 1500 4x4 Laramie 3.21 axle ratio and I currently own the Sequoia Trd Sport. With the 89 octane recommended for the Ram and 87 octane for the Sequoia. My averages were maybe 1 to 2 mpg difference not towing.
Putting in my guess that the hybrid system is going to win because it'll have more on-demand torque for acceleration, but maybe by only 3.5 mpg or so. It'll be capable of towing perfectly well, but its true benefit over all-gas alternatives will be for everyday mall-crawling.
You have some many trailers and “toys” (used for work around the property of course 😉) I’m jealous. You should offer the AOA experience where people can live a week in your shoes. Driving press cars, doing projects around the property etc. 😂 #lifegoals
I still think that, unless you're towing on a very regular basis, it makes way more sense to get a hybrid. Especially sitting here in the Portland area, with a forest fire encroaching in the far distance of the city, I really hope that more Americans take gas mileage/CO2 emissions into account when they're buying vehicles; after all, private automobile emissions are now the single largest source of CO2 in the country.
@@joecanis484 Funny you should mention it; was just at Pioneer Square on Sunday; hardly anyone there, was at least as clean as any other urban part of the U.S. I'd just driven across (nevermind my hometown of Manchester, NH), and things seemed to be pretty normal all said and done. Maybe try leaving your conservative echo chamber; you might be less liable to derail conversations in the future.
@@aquaticko I remember the chant, burn, baby, burn, from the 60s. Did not turn out very well for those cities, took decades to recover. You are in the bubble. You are unable to even acknowledge the obvious and take the slightest of criticism. Your glass heart is so easily offended. I was in Portland 6 years ago and its downtown looked like a slum populated by druggies and deadbeats. I will never go back. So whether or not I am a conservative makes no difference, Portland will never receive another dollar of mine. And I warn everyone I know about the conditions I saw and the filth (people and conditions) that I saw. On top of that, the random violence now makes it dangerous also. Your bubble is squalid.
@@joecanis484 You're right; I was walking around hallucinating, actively dissociating what I saw, turning it into what I saw myself seeing. I'd say I feel bad for people like you, but then, you've done it to yourselves. Go ahead, keep living in fear; just know that in the end, your guns won't discriminate who they point at. Can we get back to talking about cars at some point, or...?
I too am disappointed in the new explorer. However I think the Durango might edge it out... but just. It will be a very small margin. The reason being and where in the rev band the power is available.
That Explorer mpg seems horrible considering the powertrain. I towed the largest UHaul dual axle box trailer (2,500 lbs) with approx 1,500 lbs in it with a 2017 Gen 2 Honda Ridgeline and got 14.6 mpg in fairly hilly terrain and at higher speeds. It towed our 4,600 lb bowrider boat, which is obviously more aerodynamic, and got 17.0. I towed the same bowrider with my 2014 RAM 1500 (5.7 and the ZF8 speed) and got 16.5. So not surprised by the Durango. That Explorer mpg is unacceptable in my book.
Well most pumps say, do not top off, for avoiding topping up the filler neck. TFL does some decent videos, but I pick apart some blatant mistakes nearly every post. They are anything but scientific, Tommy catches it sometimes (if anyone does) but he seems to worry about plastic touch surfaces most and bragging up old overly complicated german cars (which no one in their right mind would buy used). BTW the FCA EVIC only calculates mileage based on the last 200 miles of driving.
But....isn't the hybrid for the city advantage? if i recall, most have higher city ratings than they do highway. so, of course, adding a trailer to a highway will never be to the hybrid advantage. very confused by this test and comparison. how about towing the darn trailer around town?
Many hybrids post better numbers on the highway as well because hybrids allow downsizing of the engine displacement and operation on the atkinson cycle.
I'm not understanding what Ford is trying to do with their hybrid offerings. They seem to be lost in the shuffle of the marketplace and this video is more evidence of it. The Escape is not standing out. The Lincoln Aviator plug in was a little underwhelming according to reviews. Their one good success was the Fusion hybrid but they are getting rid of the Fusion sedan. I'm wondering if those Fusion buyers will migrate to Ford's hybrid crossovers. The hybrid F150 should do well but with the built-in generator that is kind of a different thing.
I believe until Ford will bring a PHEV with a decent sized battery able to accumulate lots of regenerative braking energy going downhill in your hilly area, no simple hybrid especially not being parrallel one, will have some advantage in towing MPG score due to small battery and higher revving RPM of a smaller engine going uphill. No wonder for towing always were preferred Diesels. There is though a new SUV vehicle built in the USA but sold only in Europe Mercedes Benz GLE 350 DE PHEV combining a 32 kW battery with decent electric motors and a decent torquey Diesel 4 cylinders engine which definitely might give you a MPG score in higher 30-ties towing your trailer on your testing loop, presumably, but noone will know for sure until tested.
You didn't really want an Explorer. Abhorrent quality inside and out and man did Ford go cheap. How can such a popular vehicle made in 2020 have incandescent lights? If Jeep can give the Cherokee full LED lighting how can Ford with the more popular Explorer (and more profitable with the higher end versions/lower overall quality) not make that work? Same for the new Escape. As for the test above, I am not surprised. Ford has taken significant shortcuts with their new vehicles and its a safe assumption that they took shortcuts with the new Explorer hybrid powertrain. The took shortcuts with everything else. The new Durango is a far better vehicle. The new interior is phenomenal and the powertrain cannot be beat.
If I were purely going for the tow rating and did a lot of it, then the difference in MPG isn’t enough to want the Explorer! I’d go with the Durango! If I didn’t do as much towing or heavy towing, I’d go Explorer for the extra fuel economy.... last point... that is pretty stupid with the Toyota Highlander and the tow hitch. They will have a lot of angry people if they don’t get that foot activation problem fixed!
Cylinder deactivation (or "active fuel management")? Gross. Stay far away from that SUV unless you want to be replacing cams and lifters after only 50k miles. Either that or disable the system and get 20 mpg instead of 25 mpg
1st EVs inherently have better torque 2nd you incorrectly assume batteries are the only source of electric for an EVs.... google REx ie range extender or PHEV or FCEV en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_cell_vehicle EVs for towing will becoming in many different forms soon...
N C fuel cells are a niche market in California. It can’t compete with lithium batteries because it requires too much energy to produce hydrogen and the whole process is less efficient than lithium at the end of the day. And hybrids always have tiny batteries and still suffer from the limitations of current battery technology. The battery will die after a couple miles and then you’re back to burning fossil fuels and getting the same exact MPG as any other ICE vehicle. So far, there is no battery technology that can escape the laws of physics.
What matters most when towing is aerodynamics (wind resistance) and speed. I tow a 1050lb camper (Prolite Mini) with my 2019 RAV4 hybrid but due to brutal wind resistance get 17mpg. And I drive 120kph (75mph). Note: I'm towing in Rocky mountains at moderate elevation.
Your absolutely correct. Two years ago my father towed his large 5th wheel camper trailer with a Ford 3.5L ecoboost from Quebec to the Yukon and back. His worst mileage was in the prairies with the strong head wind. His towing speed was 105 km/h. When he got to the rockies his mileage improved significantly even when towing in the mountain. The only reason for this was the lack of headwind. As you may know, drag increases by the square, so if you double your speed the draft force increases by a factor of 4.
Good post here. When towing, aerodynamic losses are much higher because the toad is typically shaped like a barn, which kills aero. And for some reason people feel they have to tow at 70 mph or more, which also increases the aero drag exponentially. It was nice to see Alex actually keeping his speed to 55 mph.
Alex, Let these two SUVs labor today but we, the subscribers, DEMAND a #HighlanderHybrid tow test in the near future.
How much can a new highlander hybrid awd tow?
@@carguyeyedoc 3,500 lbs.
Right Lane Hog guess that’s one advantage of the Ford. That’s not enough to pull an average 18-20 ft boat with trailer, fuel, and gear
@@carguyeyedoc I'd get a slightly smaller boat. The Highlander's day to day mpg advantage is unbeatable.
Would be interested in seeing how the 2.3 Ecoboost Explorer does in this test. The price premium for the hybrid may not be worth it.
Bryan Mills i dont think the hybrid is worth it regardless of mpg differences. A fully loaded xlt awd is 50k, with the hybrid youre forced to get the limited trim, and a fully loaded hybrid limited awd is about 59k. To me, the xlt is all the luxury I would ever need, so it’d be a no brainer to get the 2.3.
@@carguyeyedoc Yep, the 2.3 has an advantage on towing too, 5300 vs 5000 for the hybrid. I actually like the base Explorer, wouldn't go any higher than XLT on trim, either.
Bryan Mills : at least with the hybrid you don’t have to deal with direct injection intake valve deposits, turbo (un)reliability, and engine failure from coolant loss.
I’d be willing to bet it’d fare the worst of the bunch. I have an 18 Exploder w/ the 2.3 and it gets 20mpg highway on a good day. I know a lot has changed about the car with the redesign. But in general that engine is pretty far off it’s EPA estimates.
Travis Smith th-cam.com/video/-9uS9eLsOEE/w-d-xo.html ehh maybe, watch this video of the new one. Maybe a little more information than needed, but does give you a rough look at the mpg gauge throughout the whole video
I'm in Texas, no way I'm doing 55 when towing. I usually get 9 to 10mpg towing my 7k travel trailer at 65mph with my 2017 Expedition EL. Can't wait to see how the new F150 hybrid does. Awesome seeing my favorite reviewers collaborating.
yeah, its important to get that load of manure and steer heads to the local school so the kids can have lunch... we know how YALL run things there in good ole Texas!
@@philtripe You got jokes. 18 wheelers blow by me at 65. Any slower and I get a truck on my ass.
Best car reviewer on TH-cam right here!
Great topic. I was interested into this especially for the upcoming hybrid Trucks. What do you expect for the new Powerboost F150? will it be better than V8 for towing?
I love my v8 Durango! It tows so well, and is also really fun to drive.
Looks like Alex cave in on the opening sound.
Well, I like TFL but Roman isn’t as knowledgeable or as caring as you are about cars. He doesn’t have the passion. I get it because I do have the same passion as you. Keep going Alex. You’re the best out there
3:34 Please consider an epilepsy warning for shots like this
I have a 2015 Durango V6 RWD w factory trailer package. Normal driving at the various speed limits I get 23.5 mpg including mountains. When towing my 2700 pound popup camper my mileage drops only 3 to mpg average including mountains. I have towed it 6000 miles now. We are very pleased with the Durango.
Our next tow vehicle will either be a V8 Durango AWD - or a Ram
1500 V8 e-tourque with full air ride.
I don’t get how Tommy says the Escape is way behind the RAV4. The Toyota gets 40 miles on battery and the Escape 37. Besides that, the electric awd and horsepower they are very similar. The Escape can also be had cheaper. Both Ford and Toyota have very very similar hybrid tech. So similar they cross licensed to stay out of court.
Tommy is right and I'm a Ford fan. The Escape plug in Hybrid in only FWD, but the Toyota is AWD. On top of that, the RAV4 is much faster. The 0-60 for the Toyota is about 5.7 and the Escape is 8.8. The icing on the cake is the Toyota gets better EV range. So ya the Ford Hybrid is WAY behind. The Ford will be lucky to sell a 1/4 of the RAV4s.
Danny Bechamp That does not make the Ford Escape way behind. He was speaking in technology terms.
Hassan T Of course it does. The Toyota does everything WAY better. Faster, better range, more efficient and AWD. This all adds up to a much better hybrid system. Ford now needs to go back to the drawing board, just for the simple reason that they don’t have AWD.
Danny Bechamp 🤦🏽♂️ Ok dude. That makes no sense. Many people don’t care about any of that you listed. Yes some do. But does that make the Toyota way better 🙄. No.
Hassan T Okay what would it take for the Toyota to be way better then? You obviously don’t have a technical or mechanical back ground. As an engineer, I know its hard to engineer something that does everything better than your competitor. Toyota has done just that. Normally, when a vehicle is faster it’s less efficient. Since the Ford is only FWD it should be more efficient than the Toyota but it’s not. There is no reason why any sane person should consider the Escape over the RAV4. Name one thing that the Ford does better? Cheers and have a good evening.
Hello Alex, this is a good video showing real life fuel economy under high-load situations.
I think the guy from Engineering Explained can hand-calculate your fuel economy numbers lol.
Excellent idea.
Glad to see FCA sticking with what works. Don't need to get fancy for no reason.
Explorer Hybrid seems perfect on paper, great combo of massive SUV and electrified powertrain. But it's so rare to see a video of it actually getting some towing data!
I would never touch a hybrid not made by Toyota, unless you seriously do your due diligence about the repairability of the batteries and the reliability of the transmission.
Do the MPG meters take into account the time you spend idling? My V6 RAV4 doesn’t count idling time. It says 17.1 mpg on the meter but in a pump calculation it gets 15.8.
Yes. When calculating miles/gallon, if the numerator is 0, then the m/g totals out to 0 as well. It is possible to burn an entire tank of fuel while traveling 0.0 miles.
Yes, but no time was spent idling here
The previous intro music was better. One of the best around :c
Noooooo sorry disagree. Consistently lowered my volume at the beginning of his vids. This one is much more musically endearing, especially the chord change in the end.
New intro sounds creepy 👻
Lol, strongly disagree. New one is wayyyy better and long overdue
@@sshah2545 thanks for the support I wrote it lol
I went with a used 2016 Volvo XC90 PHEV. Super efficient in city driving on electric, 25mpg @ 75mph hwy and can tow 5k.
We are looking at the T8 also since the CT6 plug-in fits.
Did you review carfax for repair history and what type of warranty did you buy?
@@normt430 I did review carfax for the car I bought - 57k miles, one owner, regular maintenance. Had the sunroof replaced due to leaks which gave me pause. I bought warranty through Toco but would recommend you price used car warranty through your local credit union, your terms and coverage will probably be better. Check engine light came on this past weekend towing a small, enclosed U-Haul trailer and then went off after driving without it. Have 60k mile service tomorrow, will have them look at it.
@@JakeGuilbo any bad news during 60k service. Do you have a maintence service plan?
Norm T hey! Turns out prev owner bought a wear and tear maintenance plan that stays with the vin so I get free maintenance until 100k! Check engine was faulty O2 sensor, $500 but toco covered it, so I only had to pay $200 deductible.
Enjoyed the video and the comparison. I think it would be nice for you to incorporate towing MPG figures into all of your reviews of vehicles that advertise their towing capabilities and are sent to you outfitted with towing gear. I would have liked to have seen these numbers on your latest XC90 T8 review and other hybrids and PHEVs. If this is really the direction that car companies are heading for future vehicles it would be nice to see what the real world numbers will be if we want to tow. Cheers!
Great Choice Alex....to go with Ford Explorer. Same with me, leased Atlas just to wait for Explorer to be refreshed in 2020. Atlas has a horrible ride quality on highways with beefier 18in wheels...feels all the bumps...same issue with Pilot, Ascent. If Ford makes elec plugin Explorer, it would be a game changer.
The more weight and longer steady-state cruise you throw at a V8, the more its economy approaches the eco offerings. If you're going to tow and cruise, just get a V8. Alternately, if you're city or suburban driving in stop-and-go, pick the eco motor. Towing with the hybrid (or even a V6) should be thought of just like the emergency third row seat: yes, it works, but it is hugely compomised.
Ohhhhh! wait, is there a partnership coming or a TV show project featuring yourself and the gang at TFL ;-)
Love the outro music. Feels like a 80s’ historical documentary or The Golden Girls
Thank you for this. good review
I'm noticing some tow vehicles (sort of tow vehicles) using 4 cylinder turbo's. What are your thoughts on those?
If you end up reviewing the 2021 chrysler Pacifica hybrid, could you comment on running the ac/heat overnight? A lot of van dwellers are curious whether it’s possible to use the vehicle in a sort of camping mode the way Tesla’s have. I know thenpacifica doesn’t officially have this mode but it’d be nice if there is a way to simulate that mode.
Thanks for all your reviews. You’re my favorite car reviewer.
It did surprise me that the Durango was that close to it's EPA numbers. My internal fuel consumption calculator on my truck had to be recalibrated because it was off by 6.7%.
I’ve been looking for info about this. I swore my next vehicle would be a Hybrid, but not sure what to think about the explorer for towing a small rv.
What’s the weight of your camper/ trailer
How often would you tow it? The savings when not towing might be worth your while. Also personally not a fan of small turbo engines from a reliability/maintenance stand point.
Alexander Paul 2 We’re looking to buy a fibreglass trailer, likely a 17 or 19 foot Escape. So that’s a dry weight of 3300 for the 19. Our current vehicle can’t tow, so we are looking at options. We’re probably going to stay a one car family, so a truck isn’t in the picture.
Don Jacobs We’d tow during the summer months, probably shorter weekend trips although we’ve contemplated going cross Canada too.
@@MapleYum, when your not towing you will be saving, when you are towing your not going to. But since it sounds like you you don’t tow to to much so the times that you do tow won’t be enough to really make a difference on a yearly average.
Thanks for talking about filling the gas tank. The air gap is essential for expansion, so you should never actually fill after the first click.
How did you weigh the trailer?
Towing that heavy, unaerodynamic trailer, I would expect almost no regen, except at low speeds or going down very steep hills. So, that efficiency advantage of the hybrid is negated. Since the Explorer hybrid has only a tiny electric motor, I wouldn't expect much help from the electric motor accelerating that heavy trailer, which negates that advantage. And, it's not an eCVT transmission and I doubt it's an Atkinson cycle engine. So, overall I would expect very little advantage from the hybrid when towing a large trailer.
Dan Sanger: exactly this comment
Plenty of braking is happening, but in a non PHEV hybrid, regen doesn't do much do much for you because of the battery capacity.
I'd like to see MPG numbers in same vehicles towing at 75mph over the 55mph California limit 🧓
Lol who even follows that rule, when theres no chp or the trailer doesn’t sway, go over the limit
@Jesus Perez
I do, and that because i never had much of good luck. There's way too my state troopers on CA-99 & I-5 to be speeding with a trailer. One time when I was in California, i had a state strooper flashed me warning lights when i speed down the pass towards LA.
Just don't do it on camera or ever admit it....
55 mph is dangerously slow in highways where people normally go 75 mph, at least here in Minnesota. I have no clue why it should be that low. even 18 wheelers can usually manage 65 mph
75mph over 55mph is 130mph. I would like to see that too, Alex. LOL
I am very happy with towing capability of my 2017 Durango R/T. Its also a great road tripper with fuel economy approaching 20 if I keep it under 70 and not towing.
I don't think we are quiet there with capability vs fuel economy. So I am happy with Durango for towing and RAV4 hybrid 36 actual FE for every day driving.
Excellent
17 miles per gallon
7 km per litre
Prius: I'm gonna tow that car someday
It's a Hemi! Scotty Kilmer's Channel would advise the Dodge in this case!
OOOOHHHHH the new opening is like THX in the movies!
I love Tommy from TFL.. btw.. there the reason why I joined this page..
I’d like to know, if measurable, how often the cruise control has been activated and deactivated
May i ask. Why Doesn't dodge use the Torque mild hybrid in the Durango?
This was very surprising to see that towing mpg difference in the Durango V8’s favor.
Explorer for the win.
Well, that's a surprise. The Durango's mileage wouldn't hold up as well in city driving, though.
@@bryanmills2295 Yes it would not, driving interstate empty v8 is also worse then empty v6, i don't like small engines for heavy and towing, but both v6 NA half ton trucks Ram and F150 i tried on interstate almost empty were doing nice 25, 26 mpg
Can you do a towing video with the 2.3l ecoboost? For some reason no one, even TFL, has done a towing review with that engine.
If I can get my hands on one...
Alex, at 3,000 lbs you're not towing an average size travel trailer. That's actually on par with a couple's trailer, something small like a Tab@400.
According to Jayco and Keystone, their most popular trailers have a curb weight of between 3,000 and 3,500 pounds dry so this is in the right neighborhood and more important than a 500 to even 1,000 lb variance is the aero profile of the trailer which is more or less similar to a box trailer (in this case, a cargo box is generally squarer and less aerodynamic).
@@AAutoBuyersGuide Alex, you should go to their sites to see how small these light travel trailers are. Further, looking at your test, you purposely didn't challenge your Durango in order to keep the Explorer in play, just IMO. That 3500 lb capacity might be the sweet spot for the Explorer, but definitely the Durango's is higher than that by several thousand pounds.
The issue with the hybrid explorer is that it should be a phev. the V6 is fine (although a phev 2.3/3.0 powerboost would be much better)
I agree, but i think Ford is saving that powertrain combo for Lincoln.
@@JT-fq2bl fine, keep the Atkinson Cycle V6, but it should have the same phev drive train.
But you also have to consider other variations from testing to affect the MPG rating because maby you have to drive 10mph behind a slow dump truck during your loop or maby you hit more red lights with one vehicle versus the other.
What difference did you notice switching to the SRT wheel and wider tire?
About a 10% drop
Better or worse for anything other than fuel economy?
Omg you live so close to me! I know that on ramp to highway one north! They took forever to do that road work!
Tommy is the best!
The tricky thing is, that before the cylinder activation/deactivation happens - engine consumes more fuel anyway due to power hunger. Adding to this that Durango can't "create" fuel out of thin air comparing to Hybrid - I am still think that Explorer will show better economy.
And the results are pretty surprising. Thanks.
For towing anything heavier than that trailer and baring in mind that my 14ft Ifor Williams triple axle trailer weighs 2750lbs before any any cargo is loaded inside, I go for diesel every day. Not only is the torque so much higher at low revs per unit of swept volume, but the fuel efficiency is about 40% better when towing and about 25% better than gas when not towing but doing short journeys.
Even for lighter vehicles I generally choose diesel. My twin turbo-diesel Honda CR-V, for instance, has a 4400lbs towing capacity, 160hp but 350Nm torque at 1600 rpm. It does not tow, because my trailers are too big and heavy duty for it, but in a similar area to yours; on hilly country two lane and some single lane roads, I get between 40 and 42mpg Imperial consistently. That's 35mpg US
This is important when our litre of fuel costs approximately £1.15, which as a guess is $1.30 or so a quart or $5.20/US gallon very approximately.
Should mention that my 2.2 diesel Ford Ranger pickup with six speed automatic, towing about 3.5 tons [daren't admit more] generally does about 18mpg UK and on my duty cycle an overall average over 60,000 miles of about 22mpg, which includes a whole lot of towing heavy loads. That's 15 towing and 18.5 overall. That's hard farm work of course and I remember a gas Range Rover Mk1 fuel injection did 15 on a journey and 10mpg US when towing.
My 4.2 turbo diesel Land Cruiser 100 series uses just about the same amount of fuel as the Ranger when doing the same work, but the Ranger is capable of around 6mpg better on long unhurried trips unladen.
I tow a travel trailer and I want displacement. My 2019 Silverado 1500 has the 6.2L engine and 10 speed transmission. I can maintain 65 mph in the mountains and never exceed 3200 RPMs. There simply is no replacement for displacement.
I’ll happily sell you my 8.1L then.
Yes there is and it's called a turbo. :)
Danny Bechamp I’m surprised he didn’t snatch up my offer on my 2001 8.1L. He should just swap trucks with me and pay me for the 30% improvement!
@@alexs3187 The 6.2L is plenty of displacement for my trailer.
I think the big difference is the load imposed by the trailer relative to the capability of the vehicle.
@7:55...reality is, hardly anyone will buy the phev versions of RAV4 or escape. Those are mostly for auto journalists to talk about...sales volumes are microscopic. The standard hybrid versions are the ones people will buy in the real world and the ford is every bit as good, if not better than the Toyota.
Hard to say. Toyota is estimating that over 10% of RAV4 sales will be PHEVs "once production can match demand" so we'll see in a few years.
Sometimes, the low MPG honey badger doesn't care. I had a 1977 F-250HD (complete with split rims) and I got 12MPG - whether it was empty or carrying a ton of gravel.
I would like to see that same comparison between the Toyota Sequoia and your Durango Citadel. I just don’t believe the Cylinder deactivation makes a big difference.
In towing the general superior efficiency of the FCA 5.7 and the 8 speed make more of a difference. The Sequoia is also larger and less aerodynamic
Alex on Autos I understand. In my Personal experience I owned a 2015 Ram 1500 4x4 Laramie 3.21 axle ratio and I currently own the Sequoia Trd Sport. With the 89 octane recommended for the Ram and 87 octane for the Sequoia. My averages were maybe 1 to 2 mpg difference not towing.
Putting in my guess that the hybrid system is going to win because it'll have more on-demand torque for acceleration, but maybe by only 3.5 mpg or so. It'll be capable of towing perfectly well, but its true benefit over all-gas alternatives will be for everyday mall-crawling.
Well alright, glad to admit I called it wrong. I'll stand behind my second point though.
Mopar guy here. No surprise on the results.
You have some many trailers and “toys” (used for work around the property of course 😉) I’m jealous. You should offer the AOA experience where people can live a week in your shoes. Driving press cars, doing projects around the property etc. 😂 #lifegoals
So is driving a stick like putting the car in N down a hill to save gas? Cause I would have done that in the mopar if I was worried lol
I still think that, unless you're towing on a very regular basis, it makes way more sense to get a hybrid.
Especially sitting here in the Portland area, with a forest fire encroaching in the far distance of the city, I really hope that more Americans take gas mileage/CO2 emissions into account when they're buying vehicles; after all, private automobile emissions are now the single largest source of CO2 in the country.
If you care about CO2 emissions, stop BLM and antifa from burning down your city. Is all of that area as dumb as you look in news reports?
@@joecanis484 Funny you should mention it; was just at Pioneer Square on Sunday; hardly anyone there, was at least as clean as any other urban part of the U.S. I'd just driven across (nevermind my hometown of Manchester, NH), and things seemed to be pretty normal all said and done. Maybe try leaving your conservative echo chamber; you might be less liable to derail conversations in the future.
@@aquaticko I remember the chant, burn, baby, burn, from the 60s. Did not turn out very well for those cities, took decades to recover. You are in the bubble. You are unable to even acknowledge the obvious and take the slightest of criticism. Your glass heart is so easily offended. I was in Portland 6 years ago and its downtown looked like a slum populated by druggies and deadbeats. I will never go back. So whether or not I am a conservative makes no difference, Portland will never receive another dollar of mine. And I warn everyone I know about the conditions I saw and the filth (people and conditions) that I saw. On top of that, the random violence now makes it dangerous also. Your bubble is squalid.
@@joecanis484 You're right; I was walking around hallucinating, actively dissociating what I saw, turning it into what I saw myself seeing.
I'd say I feel bad for people like you, but then, you've done it to yourselves. Go ahead, keep living in fear; just know that in the end, your guns won't discriminate who they point at.
Can we get back to talking about cars at some point, or...?
@@aquaticko what you suffer from is called cognitive dissonance. See a psychiatrist. Good luck and I hope you feel better soon.
Will go with the 5.7 Durango all the way!
Intro music is very good now.
I too am disappointed in the new explorer. However I think the Durango might edge it out... but just. It will be a very small margin. The reason being and where in the rev band the power is available.
You are not using a weight distribution hitch. I have a 2013 Jeep Grand 5.7L and tow a 5,500 lb travel trailer and get about 10mpg with the A/C on.
The Durango comes with factory trailer brake controller. I don't see anything similar for the Explorer. Anyone?
Explorer does not offer one.
The ford explorer should put the 2.7 ecoboost as the standard engine! It would be much better at towing than the 2.3 & 3.3 v6 hybrid.
I'm thinking 2.5 mpg for the Ford Explorer Hybrid.
So the obvious question would be how would an EcoBoost faire on the same lap.
I thinks its gonna be close but I'm gonna say the Ford Explorer Hybrid
I vote Durango
By 1 mpg
Explorer!
That Explorer mpg seems horrible considering the powertrain. I towed the largest UHaul dual axle box trailer (2,500 lbs) with approx 1,500 lbs in it with a 2017 Gen 2 Honda Ridgeline and got 14.6 mpg in fairly hilly terrain and at higher speeds. It towed our 4,600 lb bowrider boat, which is obviously more aerodynamic, and got 17.0.
I towed the same bowrider with my 2014 RAM 1500 (5.7 and the ZF8 speed) and got 16.5. So not surprised by the Durango.
That Explorer mpg is unacceptable in my book.
For the price, why not a Land Rover Defender with its better max tow rating?
Wahoo!
Well most pumps say, do not top off, for avoiding topping up the filler neck. TFL does some decent videos, but I pick apart some blatant mistakes nearly every post. They are anything but scientific, Tommy catches it sometimes (if anyone does) but he seems to worry about plastic touch surfaces most and bragging up old overly complicated german cars (which no one in their right mind would buy used). BTW the FCA EVIC only calculates mileage based on the last 200 miles of driving.
But....isn't the hybrid for the city advantage?
if i recall, most have higher city ratings than they do highway.
so, of course, adding a trailer to a highway will never be to the hybrid advantage.
very confused by this test and comparison.
how about towing the darn trailer around town?
Many hybrids post better numbers on the highway as well because hybrids allow downsizing of the engine displacement and operation on the atkinson cycle.
My guess: Ford by 4mpg
Edit: crap.
I really hope the Ford got better mpg by at least 3 just like what tommy said
💔
Bruh, you didn't even put chocks on the trailer when swapping...
As long as its on flat level ground, its not going anywhere, i cant for sure tell if its close to flat
Very flat...
I'm not understanding what Ford is trying to do with their hybrid offerings. They seem to be lost in the shuffle of the marketplace and this video is more evidence of it. The Escape is not standing out. The Lincoln Aviator plug in was a little underwhelming according to reviews. Their one good success was the Fusion hybrid but they are getting rid of the Fusion sedan. I'm wondering if those Fusion buyers will migrate to Ford's hybrid crossovers. The hybrid F150 should do well but with the built-in generator that is kind of a different thing.
Explorer to win by 2 mpg. Edit: impressed by the Durango here
I think it is going to be a wash. The ford hybrid system is not really designed for towing the way the powertrain in the Durango is.
possibly by .5 miles per gallon in favor of the Explorer
19:30 "provide" is misspelled ☑
Honestly, i bet they tie bc the durango has more power, so it doesn't have to work as hard as the explorer
Alex, why do you want to trade a RWD v8 lovely suv for a v6 twin turbo suv? A ugly v6 suv at that.
For sure I am going with anything rather than Ford ( I'd like to save some money on gas but I want the reliability too)
The Durango
Durango better by 1 mpg 🤔
Durango has my vote. The Ford does look better though.
I believe until Ford will bring a PHEV with a decent sized battery able to accumulate lots of regenerative braking energy going downhill in your hilly area, no simple hybrid especially not being parrallel one, will have some advantage in towing MPG score due to small battery and higher revving RPM of a smaller engine going uphill.
No wonder for towing always were preferred Diesels.
There is though a new SUV vehicle built in the USA but sold only in Europe Mercedes Benz GLE 350 DE PHEV combining a 32 kW battery with decent electric motors and a decent torquey Diesel 4 cylinders engine which definitely might give you a MPG score in higher 30-ties towing your trailer on your testing loop, presumably, but noone will know for sure until tested.
True it's hard to beat a dirty diesel for towing until we see FC EVs for towing... or at least an EV REx suited for towing...
Gonna guess the explorer will win by about 3 mpg.
Wow. I was very wrong.
You didn't really want an Explorer. Abhorrent quality inside and out and man did Ford go cheap. How can such a popular vehicle made in 2020 have incandescent lights? If Jeep can give the Cherokee full LED lighting how can Ford with the more popular Explorer (and more profitable with the higher end versions/lower overall quality) not make that work? Same for the new Escape.
As for the test above, I am not surprised. Ford has taken significant shortcuts with their new vehicles and its a safe assumption that they took shortcuts with the new Explorer hybrid powertrain. The took shortcuts with everything else.
The new Durango is a far better vehicle. The new interior is phenomenal and the powertrain cannot be beat.
If I were purely going for the tow rating and did a lot of it, then the difference in MPG isn’t enough to want the Explorer! I’d go with the Durango! If I didn’t do as much towing or heavy towing, I’d go Explorer for the extra fuel economy.... last point... that is pretty stupid with the Toyota Highlander and the tow hitch. They will have a lot of angry people if they don’t get that foot activation problem fixed!
Cylinder deactivation (or "active fuel management")? Gross. Stay far away from that SUV unless you want to be replacing cams and lifters after only 50k miles. Either that or disable the system and get 20 mpg instead of 25 mpg
I'd get a diesel. Gasoline engines don't belong in SUVs.
FC EVs for towing will beat both of them oneday... So enjoy the advantages of dirty diesels, while you can...
N C EV can tow, but only for a few miles until the battery dies. Until there’s some kind of new battery revolution, EV’s won’t cut it.
1st EVs inherently have better torque 2nd you incorrectly assume batteries are the only source of electric for an EVs.... google REx ie range extender or PHEV or FCEV
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_cell_vehicle
EVs for towing will becoming in many different forms soon...
N C fuel cells are a niche market in California. It can’t compete with lithium batteries because it requires too much energy to produce hydrogen and the whole process is less efficient than lithium at the end of the day. And hybrids always have tiny batteries and still suffer from the limitations of current battery technology. The battery will die after a couple miles and then you’re back to burning fossil fuels and getting the same exact MPG as any other ICE vehicle. So far, there is no battery technology that can escape the laws of physics.
BTW all the current car based BEVs (even the X) were never intended for towing anyway.... so the crappy range meme is kinda amusing...
At least Alex got a dodge
Diesel.
I would buy the V8 Durango
Don't, AFM = new cams and lifters
I am not sure what your question is?