I think these guys missed that you are talking about the idea that if we start with P (God) and the absence of Y (Everything that is of God witch is literally EVERY THING in this context), and they are claiming that "God is good", implying that "good" is an actual quality that can be determined, then what determined the state of P being "good" before there was any Y? Did I get that right?
Theists insist on denying the self-evident truth of our shared naturalistic atheistic reality that been revealed to all of sound mind through both natural and special Revelation in an undeniable way in order to sin.
You say that as a quip, but ultimately, most of it is true. Their religion is, in effect, an excuse to be terrible people. "God will forgive me if I just ask". They don't need to seek forgiveness from the people they wronged, only from their made up entity. How frickin convenient....
3:10 That is some serious backtracking from the theists. It almost sounds like they're embarrassed by the Sunday School nonsense of their religion, and are trying to post facto much it more nuanced and sophisticated. Heaven is not a state of static, absolute, flawless perfection, but rather is actually a state of "being the best version you can be at that moment in time," which is why you can change and grow while residing in heaven. That is almost identical to the Socratic definition of living a good life -- which is what mortal humans are meant to do while residing in the mortal realm. Another example of Christianity plagiarising the Greeks. Also, if time and space doesn't exist in heaven, then what is the mechanism by which humans can change and grow?
By 15:30, we get to "You're just upset that you don't like the rules" and "God gets to make the rules by virtue of the fact that he made the rules." The true terror of Christianity -- either obey or suffer God's wrath.
It doesn't even work as an argument, because do we even know God made the rules? Even if "God" exists and says he made the rules, he could just be lying. Should I simply accept that everyone stronger than me is telling the truth? That would be pretty dumb of me.
@@piage84 Weird that god made a world where it's impossible for humans to fly unaided (not something he dislikes) but it _is_ possible to sin (something he dislikes). You'd think he'd make the thing he dislikes impossible...
If logic were "intrinsic" to humans, I would expect believers would do a better job of understanding logical contradictions within their beliefs when shown them.
6:05 The two examples brought up are a) waking up and feeling miserable before having your first coffee, and b) it's noon and you're looking for where the shade is located. Both of those examples aren't perfect, merely ideal. Human life is full of us trying to create scenarios wherein the outcome is the best of all possible foreseeable outcomes. So that would make heaven indistinguishable from life here on earth.
"Goodness is going to be defined as being and God is being and his own end." Sentences like this make me think, they're pulling this stuff out of their ass. In fact, I know they are.
I remember a video by Viced Rhino from a year or more ago. A Christian apologist was addressing the question, When you're in heaven, won't you feel sad knowing that your loved ones are suffering the eternal torture of hell? The apologist response was: entering into heaven will change your brain, so that you won't feel sad anymore. So, in other words, God, without your consent, will brainwash you into forgetting your foresaken loves ones. Here in this video, they are arguing that when you enter into heaven, God, again without your consent, will alter your brain, such that you will experience the eternity of time as an angel rather than as a mortal.
Good god that shit made me lose my mind, they legit resorted to subjectivity to justify their position, it's hilarious. If perfection is objectively defined, then it is definitionally unchanging, if it can change and mold according to variable standards dictated by minds, then it isn't tied to an external bedrock or consistent framework, then it is not objective. God's perfection is actually subjectively determined, kudos theists
The disunity with your finger thing is telling. They picked something you have 9 other of. If I lost my wang my essential self would absolutely change. If I lost both my legs the same applies. The self is a reflection of your physical self.
lol I didn’t even realize you were recording here! Hope I did ok.
Dude! Didn't you know that when it comes to an immutable, perfect god, that there is nuance when it comes to the standard of what is perfection? :)
I think these guys missed that you are talking about the idea that if we start with P (God) and the absence of Y (Everything that is of God witch is literally EVERY THING in this context), and they are claiming that "God is good", implying that "good" is an actual quality that can be determined, then what determined the state of P being "good" before there was any Y? Did I get that right?
@@JLWarren it was a fun listen!
I'm always recording! You did fine lol.
Fine? JL handled himself like Frosted Flakes. They're great!!!
Theists insist on denying the self-evident truth of our shared naturalistic atheistic reality that been revealed to all of sound mind through both natural and special Revelation in an undeniable way in order to sin.
Yes they do! It is so disappointing!!!
You say that as a quip, but ultimately, most of it is true. Their religion is, in effect, an excuse to be terrible people. "God will forgive me if I just ask". They don't need to seek forgiveness from the people they wronged, only from their made up entity.
How frickin convenient....
3:10
That is some serious backtracking from the theists. It almost sounds like they're embarrassed by the Sunday School nonsense of their religion, and are trying to post facto much it more nuanced and sophisticated.
Heaven is not a state of static, absolute, flawless perfection, but rather is actually a state of "being the best version you can be at that moment in time," which is why you can change and grow while residing in heaven.
That is almost identical to the Socratic definition of living a good life -- which is what mortal humans are meant to do while residing in the mortal realm.
Another example of Christianity plagiarising the Greeks.
Also, if time and space doesn't exist in heaven, then what is the mechanism by which humans can change and grow?
Who even knows... They think it is some non physical nonsense. What even is non physical??
By 15:30, we get to "You're just upset that you don't like the rules" and "God gets to make the rules by virtue of the fact that he made the rules."
The true terror of Christianity -- either obey or suffer God's wrath.
RIGHT!
It doesn't even work as an argument, because do we even know God made the rules? Even if "God" exists and says he made the rules, he could just be lying. Should I simply accept that everyone stronger than me is telling the truth? That would be pretty dumb of me.
11:52 "Just because you don't get to choose something, doesn't mean you stopped being you."
Interesting quote
Correct. MY free will doesn't allow me to choose to fly. I'm still me. If my free will doesn't allow me to sin, I'd be still me
@@piage84 Weird that god made a world where it's impossible for humans to fly unaided (not something he dislikes) but it _is_ possible to sin (something he dislikes). You'd think he'd make the thing he dislikes impossible...
@@piage84 Free will doesn't exist which is part of why this conversation is so funny
You can smell the cope when you hear this debate😂
Yes!
If logic were "intrinsic" to humans, I would expect believers would do a better job of understanding logical contradictions within their beliefs when shown them.
Great point!
It's the same nonsense as with objective morality. If their objective morality claims were true, we wouldn't have such vastly varying standards.
6:05
The two examples brought up are a) waking up and feeling miserable before having your first coffee, and b) it's noon and you're looking for where the shade is located.
Both of those examples aren't perfect, merely ideal. Human life is full of us trying to create scenarios wherein the outcome is the best of all possible foreseeable outcomes.
So that would make heaven indistinguishable from life here on earth.
"Goodness is going to be defined as being and God is being and his own end." Sentences like this make me think, they're pulling this stuff out of their ass. In fact, I know they are.
They are!
I remember a video by Viced Rhino from a year or more ago. A Christian apologist was addressing the question, When you're in heaven, won't you feel sad knowing that your loved ones are suffering the eternal torture of hell?
The apologist response was: entering into heaven will change your brain, so that you won't feel sad anymore.
So, in other words, God, without your consent, will brainwash you into forgetting your foresaken loves ones.
Here in this video, they are arguing that when you enter into heaven, God, again without your consent, will alter your brain, such that you will experience the eternity of time as an angel rather than as a mortal.
They address this very question at 12:20
At 13:45, the Christian speaker just comes out and says that God will alter your thinking so that you won't get upset about losing your loved ones.
They are just trying to get you with fear of hell.
If god alters your brain, you're not in heaven.
Sooo perfection can be perfected and has alternate settings depending on one’s mood at any given moment??
Basically.
You don't understand, bro, when it's perfectly perfect, perfection is perfectly perfect. It's simple, bro. God's message is soooo easy to interpret...
Good god that shit made me lose my mind, they legit resorted to subjectivity to justify their position, it's hilarious.
If perfection is objectively defined, then it is definitionally unchanging, if it can change and mold according to variable standards dictated by minds, then it isn't tied to an external bedrock or consistent framework, then it is not objective.
God's perfection is actually subjectively determined, kudos theists
Everyone pay according to their deeds
Everyone knows no gods exist.
@@realBreakfasttacos you think so, but you are wrong, there is a God, you choose not to believe your problem
@@mary8920-q7c I think you are confused, everyone knows no gods exist of sound mind
@@realBreakfasttacos like I said you choose to be close minded
@@mary8920-q7c Actually you are closing your mind and hardening your heart by rejecting the truth in your unrighteousness.
The disunity with your finger thing is telling. They picked something you have 9 other of. If I lost my wang my essential self would absolutely change. If I lost both my legs the same applies. The self is a reflection of your physical self.
Does the disunification of the body and soul feel like a fart?
Great question!!!
He says Warren doesn't Christianity but there a million denominations of Christianity. Which ones doesn't he understand?
Probably like 900000 of them!
It doesn't say in the bible anywhere that there will be sorrow in heaven. Nothing he says is biblical. It's all out of his ass.
Interesting!
Yo! Infants barely have object permanence! How are they gonna perceive the law of non-contradiction?!
Great question! Although classical logic isn't embedded into the fabric of reality.
03:50 Gesundheit
LOL