I appreciate your technical demo. I am your subscriber and I have gained much knowledge from your clear teaching. My hat's off to you and your sincere energy you are sharing for others to gain. Thanks from Jawaharlal Bharath India
This is amazing, I thought I had to electro plate zinc every time I wanted to recharge my Zn-air battery. This has its trade offs but its more convenient to my application than the alternative
that is an awesome battery flow design... a bunch of those in series or parallel and you could have a constant battery once you have a good way to continuously charge the spent slurry on the way back to res tank
@doctormagster5083 If a hydrogen fuel cell can be used as an electrolyzer then this flow cell should be capable of regenerating zinc. The dendritic material should push in the direction of least resistance and not into and through the separator. Just a thought. Thanks.
very interesting video, I have long wanted to see a flow battery made on my knee. Cool. Let's now talk about the zinc electrolyzer. And let's think about the types of membranes and what if you use not an electrolyzer, but for example, immediately let hydrogen gas through. Or use hydrogen peroxide for instant refueling and fluid activation. These are just my thoughts, I'm not a chemist.
To make it more impressive use a dc to dc converter and run a portable DVD player or many let lights ECT .the booster will raise it to 12 volts and there cheap .
Thanks for sharing this video But :if you open a dry cell battery you will see that there is a carbon electrode in center + MnO2 slurry inside a zinc container and you can revive such a discharged battery by just changing to new fresh dry slurry . So this is a very good big lap to the dry cell battery or you can call it the liquid slurry cell
Thank you for a very interesting video. Is it possible to scale this design? If you make several such cells, connect one pipeline in series and connect the cells themselves in series. Can you give it a try? Will the total voltage increase or will there be a circuit through the electrolyte?
Another thought provoking video Cayrex. The cell seemed to have a pretty good capacity with the motor load you used, it would be interesting to see the actual figures on your load tester. Have you managed to make a decent zinc electrolyzer yet, or is that part 3 ? :-) Martin. BTW I think you may have your zincate labels reversed at 3m 14s.
Está excelente... aunque me queda la duda: 1- El combustible (electrolito) que circula por el interior de la bomba se auto recicla? 2- Admite también recarga? 3- Qué voltaje y amperaje ? 4- Es uno de los proyectos con mayor poder/tasa de energía ?...cómo para patinete eléctrico 😏 🤔💪 Saludos desde Argentina 🇦🇷👋
@Cayrex could you tell what is the material you used to prepare zinc slurry ? you mentioned in video but there was no materials mentioned in the video, i am working at batteries in shenzhen university China as a postdoc researcher, your video are interesting, i want to try this slurry into coin cell fabrication.
quick question, this battery cell lets say you have a timer, and its running on this battery to turn on and off the pump in interval times to renew the zinc slurry every once and then will it become an automated slurry renewal?
I think creating a properly mixed electrolyte and finding the energy per volume of it and attaching energy measuring device to the battery's electrode, using it as an input to the arduino to turn the pump on and off base on the energy spent and not necessarily based on time as the load varies. That's what I have for my ongoing research in undergrad. I will comeback to this maybe after some time. The comments are really helpful though.
Did you measure how many amps and volts was the cell producing? So to calculate the approximate power density, it should be a very high power density because the holes are not very big. Also, if dendrite will be formed, i think the slurry needs to be permanently circulating to equally distribute dendrite in solution.. although you can use a very low power pump and very slow (continuous) pump speed with a shorter pipes.
370 mA and 1V under load. The nominal cell voltage is 1.4V. But I get that voltage drop because of to thick pipe wall which causes too big distance between anode and cathode. I also dont use any catalyst on the air electrode. The dendrites can form only in the regenerator,.... but the slurry is circulating,... so no problem here. The pump is can only be activated when the cell voltage drop to lower limit.
@@cayrex I would like to build this and help characterize the power density but for now it seems I cannot get from anywhere the zinc powder in pure form. Maybe i can synthesize it from zinc oxide... but purity will not be ok. Also it should be noted that the particle microns size will be very important accelerating/decreasing the reaction speed.
Hi, this is a very amazing battery flow design. I am very interested in scaling this to run electric cars. However, I have a few doubts. Doesn't this battery self discharge, as zinc nanoparticles react with KOH to form Potassium Zincate? Why can't we use Sodium Chloride or Zinc Chloride instead, as zinc does not react with table salt. Will this work better? Also, KOH is very corrosive and accidentally touching this slurry is not like accidentally touching petrol. We need to wash hands with lots of water immediately or the KOH will eat through our skin. Thats also why NaCl slurry might be a better option.
I am planning to create a Zinc air battery where a car goes into a Zinc station to fill up fresh electrolyte while also removing the old electrolyte that has fully oxidized. That electrolyte will later be converted back to Zinc powder and be resupplied.
@@aadhithvarathan5432 The zinc slurry is almost the same like you find in alkaline batteries,... and they can be stored for 10 years without any selfdischarge. Another type of zinc air battery are saline zinc air batteries,.... but they have less energy density. I dont know why you want to touch the slurry, because you will not refill the slurry like you do with petrol,... The refill is in closed system like by H2 and also the system have two flow pipe system,... one for the old used slurry and one for fresh slurry. Dealing with KOH is one of the steps which is needed for that system to work. For example petrol is flammable and we learn to deal with it.... the same will be with KOH.
@@cayrex now that I watched how you made the electrolyte I'm not so sure, whatever membrane would have to be immune to degradation by potassium hydroxide or it won't last very long... Have you ever seen the TH-cam channel, mysterious by choice? Aka catboi .. weird dude, smart, but weird. I got to go back and look and see what exchange membrane he made, it might work.
@@cayrex does the electrolyte have to be so alkaline or can it be done with a pH neutral salt, otherwise I got to find some combination to make an ionic liquid, something that wouldn't eat a sausage casing, for an electrolyte.
@@cayrex I tried activated carbon filter (a foam like), the current is about 10mA. Was that to be expected? Also how would I use the carbon powder as substitute? should I it as is or should I process it?
The current dependents from the active area (size of electrodes), surface area of activated carbon, distance of the electrodes,... the voltage depends mor or less to chemistry. You can add some small amount of MnO2 to the cathode.
I appreciate your technical demo. I am your subscriber and I have gained much knowledge from your clear teaching. My hat's off to you and your sincere energy you are sharing for others to gain. Thanks from Jawaharlal Bharath India
This is the best cell you've ever presented for those of us who wish to build and use. Thank you.
wonderful and amazing wizardry, very insightful and educational. Thank you 🤟🏻
This is amazing, I thought I had to electro plate zinc every time I wanted to recharge my Zn-air battery. This has its trade offs but its more convenient to my application than the alternative
Brilliant work
Nice work mate
Thank you. Great idea
that is an awesome battery flow design... a bunch of those in series or parallel and you could have a constant battery once you have a good way to continuously charge the spent slurry on the way back to res tank
And that's the key to making this work. The hard part is the zinc electrolyzer. It's not a trivial part of the system.
@doctormagster5083 If a hydrogen fuel cell can be used as an electrolyzer then this flow cell should be capable of regenerating zinc. The dendritic material should push in the direction of least resistance and not into and through the separator. Just a thought. Thanks.
Amazing! Thank you for showing this!
No problem
Great proof of concept
That’s a winner 😊
Brilliant!
That's amazing!
Yes..Cool.Job.
Good.luck.
very interesting video, I have long wanted to see a flow battery made on my knee. Cool. Let's now talk about the zinc electrolyzer. And let's think about the types of membranes and what if you use not an electrolyzer, but for example, immediately let hydrogen gas through. Or use hydrogen peroxide for instant refueling and fluid activation. These are just my thoughts, I'm not a chemist.
To make it more impressive use a dc to dc converter and run a portable DVD player or many let lights ECT .the booster will raise it to 12 volts and there cheap .
excellent
Thanks for sharing this video But :if you open a dry cell battery you will see that there is a carbon electrode in center + MnO2 slurry inside a zinc container and you can revive such a discharged battery by just changing to new fresh dry slurry . So this is a very good big lap to the dry cell battery or you can call it the liquid slurry cell
Wow detailed
Thank you for a very interesting video. Is it possible to scale this design? If you make several such cells, connect one pipeline in series and connect the cells themselves in series. Can you give it a try? Will the total voltage increase or will there be a circuit through the electrolyte?
If you let that zinc paste dry a few days, will it still work if you use some new paste then?
Another thought provoking video Cayrex.
The cell seemed to have a pretty good capacity with the motor load you used, it would be interesting to see the actual figures on your load tester.
Have you managed to make a decent zinc electrolyzer yet, or is that part 3 ? :-)
Martin.
BTW I think you may have your zincate labels reversed at 3m 14s.
Oh yea. For sure
The scheme about zinc air fuel cell and zinc electrolyzer is from some paper
@@cayrex I thought that may be the case :-)
may I ask what is the paper? I'm trying to justify my zinc air battery in application to UPS haha. It was for undergrad research.@@cayrex
what are the outputs of the multimeter? how many volts and amps it produces
Está excelente... aunque me queda la duda:
1- El combustible (electrolito) que circula por el interior de la bomba se auto recicla?
2- Admite también recarga?
3- Qué voltaje y amperaje ?
4- Es uno de los proyectos con mayor poder/tasa de energía ?...cómo para patinete eléctrico 😏 🤔💪
Saludos desde Argentina 🇦🇷👋
If the slurry was continuously mixed, the voltage would decrease. It has an energy density and swap time really competitive.
@Cayrex could you tell what is the material you used to prepare zinc slurry ? you mentioned in video but there was no materials mentioned in the video, i am working at batteries in shenzhen university China as a postdoc researcher, your video are interesting, i want to try this slurry into coin cell fabrication.
also i have subscribed your channel looking for more videos like this
And you can probably reactivate the used zinc slurry through some chemical, or electrical process recycling it.
Correct,... with so called "zinc regenerator". But regenerating can be done in "zinc stations".
I get current about 10mA, I use activated carbon filter a foam like substance in aircons. was that to be expected?
I also use tissue paper as separator though.
quick question, this battery cell lets say you have a timer, and its running on this battery to turn on and off the pump in interval times to renew the zinc slurry every once and then will it become an automated slurry renewal?
I haven't done it but with an Arduino Uno you could hook up a sensor that would kick the pump on when voltage went low.
I think creating a properly mixed electrolyte and finding the energy per volume of it and attaching energy measuring device to the battery's electrode, using it as an input to the arduino to turn the pump on and off base on the energy spent and not necessarily based on time as the load varies. That's what I have for my ongoing research in undergrad. I will comeback to this maybe after some time. The comments are really helpful though.
Did you measure how many amps and volts was the cell producing? So to calculate the approximate power density, it should be a very high power density because the holes are not very big. Also, if dendrite will be formed, i think the slurry needs to be permanently circulating to equally distribute dendrite in solution.. although you can use a very low power pump and very slow (continuous) pump speed with a shorter pipes.
370 mA and 1V under load. The nominal cell voltage is 1.4V. But I get that voltage drop because of to thick pipe wall which causes too big distance between anode and cathode. I also dont use any catalyst on the air electrode. The dendrites can form only in the regenerator,.... but the slurry is circulating,... so no problem here. The pump is can only be activated when the cell voltage drop to lower limit.
@@cayrex I would like to build this and help characterize the power density but for now it seems I cannot get from anywhere the zinc powder in pure form. Maybe i can synthesize it from zinc oxide... but purity will not be ok. Also it should be noted that the particle microns size will be very important accelerating/decreasing the reaction speed.
I get 1V to 1.6V
you're so messy OMG XDDDD yet you do it so easily :)
Hi, this is a very amazing battery flow design. I am very interested in scaling this to run electric cars. However, I have a few doubts.
Doesn't this battery self discharge, as zinc nanoparticles react with KOH to form Potassium Zincate? Why can't we use Sodium Chloride or Zinc Chloride instead, as zinc does not react with table salt. Will this work better?
Also, KOH is very corrosive and accidentally touching this slurry is not like accidentally touching petrol. We need to wash hands with lots of water immediately or the KOH will eat through our skin. Thats also why NaCl slurry might be a better option.
I am planning to create a Zinc air battery where a car goes into a Zinc station to fill up fresh electrolyte while also removing the old electrolyte that has fully oxidized. That electrolyte will later be converted back to Zinc powder and be resupplied.
@@aadhithvarathan5432 haha, one year ago I talk about that when I also make my first Flow zinc battery. EVs with zinc refill batteries.
@@aadhithvarathan5432 The zinc slurry is almost the same like you find in alkaline batteries,... and they can be stored for 10 years without any selfdischarge. Another type of zinc air battery are saline zinc air batteries,.... but they have less energy density. I dont know why you want to touch the slurry, because you will not refill the slurry like you do with petrol,... The refill is in closed system like by H2 and also the system have two flow pipe system,... one for the old used slurry and one for fresh slurry. Dealing with KOH is one of the steps which is needed for that system to work. For example petrol is flammable and we learn to deal with it.... the same will be with KOH.
Ok. Thank you.
Is there a way to recharge the zinc slurry or do you have to keep changing it out?
Yes,.... with zinc electrolyzer
Could you use a sausage casing or something like that as separator and pipe?
Yes for sure
@@cayrex now that I watched how you made the electrolyte I'm not so sure, whatever membrane would have to be immune to degradation by potassium hydroxide or it won't last very long...
Have you ever seen the TH-cam channel, mysterious by choice? Aka catboi .. weird dude, smart, but weird. I got to go back and look and see what exchange membrane he made, it might work.
@@cayrex this guy's channel, he is the one I was talking about, he's making some interesting membranes.. th-cam.com/video/6uWp2mip5VY/w-d-xo.html
@@cayrex does the electrolyte have to be so alkaline or can it be done with a pH neutral salt, otherwise I got to find some combination to make an ionic liquid, something that wouldn't eat a sausage casing, for an electrolyte.
What's the output current for this one?
It was around 370 mA
What Can I substitute for activated carbon felt?
Nickel felt,... or you can use also a activated carbon powder.
@@cayrex I tried activated carbon filter (a foam like), the current is about 10mA. Was that to be expected? Also how would I use the carbon powder as substitute? should I it as is or should I process it?
please change the title to "Manually rechargeable redox flow battery"
Nice demo. Is this electrolyte somehow reusable?
Yes of course with zinc electrolyzer
@@cayrex next video?
@@petevenuti7355 Maybe 😄🤫
@@cayrex how?
@@Antorox89 Is called zinc electrolyzer,... it looks like battery with nickel foam and SS mesh
my cell produces low current around 100mA at 0.7Volt. Whats wrong ?there is also fluctuation under 0.7 volt .
The current dependents from the active area (size of electrodes), surface area of activated carbon, distance of the electrodes,... the voltage depends mor or less to chemistry. You can add some small amount of MnO2 to the cathode.
@@cayrex thanks alot for fast reply.I will try to add MnO2 .I will tell you again what happens .
What happened
I havent tried yet. I bought MnO2 but it wasnt pure so ordered new MnO2 .I will tell you @@kokomelon3807
Did you try making a magnesium battery similar to this one? Magnesium is abundant...
Magnesium will be to reactive