Ah yes. His voice and modes of delivery have become so familiar to me after 40+ years of listening, I find it hard to offer generalised criticisms. Doesn’t stop me admiring other younger artists though! Met him at the Edinburgh Festival at the start of the 80s, when you could still (unbelievably now) go backstage for autographs - you can imagine what a nervous teenager I was! He’d been doing Bluebeard’s Castle with his wife Julia Varady, signed my programme as Bluebeard, and she, I recall was very nice. He also did a Brahms concert. I have quite a lot of his recordings so unlikely I’ll get this, despite the temptations of the less standard things, but if anybody doesn’t, well, what a treat this box must be :) Listened to in bits at a time of course…
Wow! How can you lift that hefty bundle? So much serious German greatness! I admit I never knew such a wealth of musical wealth existed. Love all the things I am learning from your wonderful videos. ❤️
Thanks, Dave, for this helpful review. I am a great admirer of F-D, not only in lieder, but also in opera and oratorio. His contribution to Karl Richter's Bach Cantata series is a major plus in that otherwise rather dated venture. However, the absence of texts and translations in a huge collection of lieder is a deal-breaker for me. Yes, texts and translations are available in print and online. But I find that accessing the song in question takes so much time, a half dozen works have already gone by, by the time the text has appeared on the screen. That's why I hold on to an earlier DG reissue of F-D's Schubert lieder accompanied by Moore from about two decades ago in three slimline boxes mit texts and translations. I also hold on to a Brilliant box reissue of F-D's Brahms songs with complete texts but no translations (if you know German pretty well, just having the original language is sufficient). Those earlier reissues may still be available online, though I haven't checked for this comment.
Dave, since you brought it DFD singing him, we need a video about Ives's songs. I would even put a vote in for the 4 CDS (with four little known but excellent singers) that Troy/Albany put out as a "most important recording" project contender. Will need to check out DFD in these songs though, I didn't know he sang Ives until now - see a few of them here on TH-cam too.
There's no way I'm tempted to buy that box. The main interest would be for stuff where I don't already have a DF-D recording and for those texts and translations are absolutely necessary. I might be tempted by a Warner box of the EMI recordings. I have many of those on much played and worn LPs WITH TEXTS. My most memorable and moving single concert which I have attended was DF-D and Gerald Moore doing Winterreise at the Royal Festival Hall, probably in the early 60s. My friends and I could say nothing to each other until half way back over the Thames pedestrian bridge.
I like Dieskau, but I hate those humongus box sets. They inconvenient to handle and store and It takes too long to hunt for selections and to discover defective discs. I much prefer the way they did the first Klemperer edition in multiple smaller volumes, So much easier to find stuff store and handle. No giant boxes for me.
Dear Dave, unlike you, I am indeed a big Lieder-person. But as a huge fan of your channel, I am grateful to you for respectfully acknowledging Fischer-Dieskau's merits here, apart from your personal taste. At the name Hermann Prey I had a nervous twitch for a moment, but I guess I have to admit that it is legitimate to find his voice more beautiful. You yourself know that there are reasons why many of these strange Lieder-people nevertheless hold Fischer-Dieskau in higher esteem, and presumably these contribute not insignificantly to your Lieder-problem. 😅
When I was young and just coming to classical music, it seemed to be Standard Received Opinion that there were basically three serious baritone lieder singers,, Fischer-Dieskau, Prey, and Souzay; furthermore, among the three, it was held that F-Dieskau was the unquestioned ideal (a great voice married to a great interpretive intelligence, the male Elisabeth Schwarzkopf), Prey was granted a beautiful voice but was judged interpretively superficial or stolid, Souzay was also granted a beautiful baritone (with a distinguishing hint of tenor in it) but was, well, French. So F-Dieskau reigned supreme. And I bought that orthodoxy, until I didn't. When I started listening to what I heard instead of what I'd been told to hear, I realized 1) yes, early F-Dieskau was quite beautiful, and the Gerald Moore collaborations really wonderful, but after the 60s his interpretive excesses, the insistence and doing something to nearly every syllable, and the hardening of his tone failed to give me much pleasure, 2) I actually liked Prey better, it truly was a gorgeous voice and, contrary to Received Opinion, he was not a boring or uninteresting interpreter, 3) Souzay, no matter that he was French and therefore supposedly incapable of interpreting German song, was in fact my favorite of all (up until the early '60s, when his voice also lost much of the bloom that's so clearly there on his marvelous Schone Mullerin, say). I own plenty of F-Dieskau recordings and regularly enjoy them (especially his Schumann), but the day I rejected the idea that his voice was the only voice, and his way of singing lieder was the only way, was the day I could start really enjoying this part of the literature. (As for F-D in opera, while he may shine in some roles, he's certainly ruined some otherwise valuable recordings for me, among them Don Carlo, Otello, Falstaff, Macbeth, Meistersinger.)
A text/translation book might have been nice but would be the size of an old big city phone directory. It's easy to find English translations (or most other languages for that matter) of most any lieder on the internet, so there's little reason for spending a lot of paper on them.
Yes and initially you can let them sort of wash over you- but finding lieder texts on the web is one of the easiest things to do so you can look at the words of the things that particularly strike you, and listen again
As Dave says Fi-Di’s Lieder recordings alone on DGG alone count to 107 CDs. I think that alone would show that his recorded out complete on all labels would be far beyond anyone else in recorded history. Even Schwarzkopf is far behind
I love DFD but I agree with Dave, Hermann Prey probably had the more beautiful voice. I mean I've listened to Prey more (and discovered him before DFD, incredibly enough). Prey's recordings of Mahler's Lieder with Haitink and the Concertgebouw are to die for. The Kubelik and Szell recordings of the 60s are the gold standard of his Mahler in my opinion. He was badly miscast as Hans Sachs in Jochum's version of Die Meistersinger - his lyric baritone simply does not have the heft for the role - but it is interesting to hear it done by someone who isn't a bass-baritone. DFD's recordings of Mahler's Lieder with Barenboim from the latter part of his career are best avoided. His voice had deteriorated markedly from its prime.
Prey was thoroughly great, I agree, and better on some material than DFD. For Mahler, I give my personal nod to DFD, particularly his pre-1980 recodings. In case you're real Mahler lieder junkie like me, I can recommend Thomas Hampson from the more modern era (though he's been around since the 80's). Still the best these days, IMO.
@leestamm3187 I LOVE Thomas Hampson. His stuff with Bernstein is legendary. I don't like his recordings with Tilson Thomas though - the tempos are mental.
Ah yes. His voice and modes of delivery have become so familiar to me after 40+ years of listening, I find it hard to offer generalised criticisms. Doesn’t stop me admiring other younger artists though! Met him at the Edinburgh Festival at the start of the 80s, when you could still (unbelievably now) go backstage for autographs - you can imagine what a nervous teenager I was! He’d been doing Bluebeard’s Castle with his wife Julia Varady, signed my programme as Bluebeard, and she, I recall was very nice. He also did a Brahms concert.
I have quite a lot of his recordings so unlikely I’ll get this, despite the temptations of the less standard things, but if anybody doesn’t, well, what a treat this box must be :) Listened to in bits at a time of course…
It helps a bit but there is a wonderful book The Fischer-Dieskau Book of Lieder which has excellent texts and translation of over 750 songs!!!
Ha yes
The father of an ex of mine translated that, must have been v interesting to collaborate with him
Nice if you want them all in one volume. Available on-line at reasonable prices, too.
Nice!
Wow! How can you lift that hefty bundle? So much serious German greatness! I admit I never knew such a wealth of musical wealth existed. Love all the things I am learning from your wonderful videos. ❤️
Thanks, Dave, for this helpful review. I am a great admirer of F-D, not only in lieder, but also in opera and oratorio. His contribution to Karl Richter's Bach Cantata series is a major plus in that otherwise rather dated venture. However, the absence of texts and translations in a huge collection of lieder is a deal-breaker for me. Yes, texts and translations are available in print and online. But I find that accessing the song in question takes so much time, a half dozen works have already gone by, by the time the text has appeared on the screen. That's why I hold on to an earlier DG reissue of F-D's Schubert lieder accompanied by Moore from about two decades ago in three slimline boxes mit texts and translations. I also hold on to a Brilliant box reissue of F-D's Brahms songs with complete texts but no translations (if you know German pretty well, just having the original language is sufficient). Those earlier reissues may still be available online, though I haven't checked for this comment.
Dave, since you brought it DFD singing him, we need a video about Ives's songs. I would even put a vote in for the 4 CDS (with four little known but excellent singers) that Troy/Albany put out as a "most important recording" project contender. Will need to check out DFD in these songs though, I didn't know he sang Ives until now - see a few of them here on TH-cam too.
There's no way I'm tempted to buy that box. The main interest would be for stuff where I don't already have a DF-D recording and for those texts and translations are absolutely necessary. I might be tempted by a Warner box of the EMI recordings. I have many of those on much played and worn LPs WITH TEXTS.
My most memorable and moving single concert which I have attended was DF-D and Gerald Moore doing Winterreise at the Royal Festival Hall, probably in the early 60s. My friends and I could say nothing to each other until half way back over the Thames pedestrian bridge.
I bought FD's Book of Lieder as a companion. It gives all the original texts and translations in english. They should have put it in the box.
I agree. I refer to it frequently. Very handy.
I like Dieskau, but I hate those humongus box sets. They inconvenient to handle and store and It takes too long to hunt for selections and to discover defective discs. I much prefer the way they did the first Klemperer edition in multiple smaller volumes, So much easier to find stuff store and handle. No giant boxes for me.
I agree. If, at least, all texts were provided, I would see an interest. but this is not the case
This set is worth it for the Nietzsche alone 😊
He was a force of nature! What a treasure - but whoa what a price…hopefully it will come down.
I think the Schubert dichterliebe is all I need from Fischer-Dieskau and then I'm good.
Dear Dave, unlike you, I am indeed a big Lieder-person. But as a huge fan of your channel, I am grateful to you for respectfully acknowledging Fischer-Dieskau's merits here, apart from your personal taste. At the name Hermann Prey I had a nervous twitch for a moment, but I guess I have to admit that it is legitimate to find his voice more beautiful. You yourself know that there are reasons why many of these strange Lieder-people nevertheless hold Fischer-Dieskau in higher esteem, and presumably these contribute not insignificantly to your Lieder-problem. 😅
Lieder can only be fully appreciated with the text
When I was young and just coming to classical music, it seemed to be Standard Received Opinion that there were basically three serious baritone lieder singers,, Fischer-Dieskau, Prey, and Souzay; furthermore, among the three, it was held that F-Dieskau was the unquestioned ideal (a great voice married to a great interpretive intelligence, the male Elisabeth Schwarzkopf), Prey was granted a beautiful voice but was judged interpretively superficial or stolid, Souzay was also granted a beautiful baritone (with a distinguishing hint of tenor in it) but was, well, French. So F-Dieskau reigned supreme. And I bought that orthodoxy, until I didn't. When I started listening to what I heard instead of what I'd been told to hear, I realized 1) yes, early F-Dieskau was quite beautiful, and the Gerald Moore collaborations really wonderful, but after the 60s his interpretive excesses, the insistence and doing something to nearly every syllable, and the hardening of his tone failed to give me much pleasure, 2) I actually liked Prey better, it truly was a gorgeous voice and, contrary to Received Opinion, he was not a boring or uninteresting interpreter, 3) Souzay, no matter that he was French and therefore supposedly incapable of interpreting German song, was in fact my favorite of all (up until the early '60s, when his voice also lost much of the bloom that's so clearly there on his marvelous Schone Mullerin, say). I own plenty of F-Dieskau recordings and regularly enjoy them (especially his Schumann), but the day I rejected the idea that his voice was the only voice, and his way of singing lieder was the only way, was the day I could start really enjoying this part of the literature. (As for F-D in opera, while he may shine in some roles, he's certainly ruined some otherwise valuable recordings for me, among them Don Carlo, Otello, Falstaff, Macbeth, Meistersinger.)
A text/translation book might have been nice but would be the size of an old big city phone directory. It's easy to find English translations (or most other languages for that matter) of most any lieder on the internet, so there's little reason for spending a lot of paper on them.
Yes and initially you can let them sort of wash over you- but finding lieder texts on the web is one of the easiest things to do so you can look at the words of the things that particularly strike you, and listen again
No texts, unbelievable.
Somebody (fellow music student) once told me that Fishsticks actually conducted a couple of operas or cantatas.
Does anyone know if this is true?
He conducted a great deal at the end of his career.
How could that book be so big, without including song texts?!?!
I love DFD, but I ain't buying this; I have tons already.
Trivia question: This set contains 1,157 lieder. Can you name them?
Yes! 😀
Do you think you would be more of a "lieder person" if there were only orchestrated versions out there?
Richard Strauss songs work beautifully with orchestra. Often, they sound as if he conceived them with orchestra from the beginning.
A huge booklet without texts and translations is useless for me.
Is it true that he recorded more than any other vocal artist??
I can only guess a yes. In case you wondered ;-)
As Dave says Fi-Di’s Lieder recordings alone on DGG alone count to 107 CDs. I think that alone would show that his recorded out complete on all labels would be far beyond anyone else in recorded history. Even Schwarzkopf is far behind
I love DFD but I agree with Dave, Hermann Prey probably had the more beautiful voice. I mean I've listened to Prey more (and discovered him before DFD, incredibly enough). Prey's recordings of Mahler's Lieder with Haitink and the Concertgebouw are to die for.
The Kubelik and Szell recordings of the 60s are the gold standard of his Mahler in my opinion. He was badly miscast as Hans Sachs in Jochum's version of Die Meistersinger - his lyric baritone simply does not have the heft for the role - but it is interesting to hear it done by someone who isn't a bass-baritone. DFD's recordings of Mahler's Lieder with Barenboim from the latter part of his career are best avoided. His voice had deteriorated markedly from its prime.
Prey was thoroughly great, I agree, and better on some material than DFD. For Mahler, I give my personal nod to DFD, particularly his pre-1980 recodings. In case you're real Mahler lieder junkie like me, I can recommend Thomas Hampson from the more modern era (though he's been around since the 80's). Still the best these days, IMO.
@leestamm3187 I LOVE Thomas Hampson. His stuff with Bernstein is legendary. I don't like his recordings with Tilson Thomas though - the tempos are mental.
@@DressyCrooner Hampson's more recent recitals with pianist Wolfram Rieger also are exceptional.
No Texts? Very disappointing.