Just a quick commentary from a player of the XVI. The rules are very much tailored to suit the Sons in lore style, a lot of focus on reserve manipulation in tip of the spear, and a singular catastrophic alpha strike from death dealers. Easy access to veteran squads as troops, bonus' for assault and rapid fire weapons being used in close quarters, several methods of getting terminators/justaerin to deep strike, and make use of massed devastatingly accurate firepower, I for instance regularly use a 10 man squad of Justaerin with combi plasma to drop in with all hell ready to break loose, very little survives such a hammering as they open up. And don't see any reason as to why generic terminators wouldn't do the job just as effectively, admitted with some plasma blasters taped in for giggles. The name of the game is always go for a decapitating strike, and then mop up. Massed outflankers and teleporting to get where you need to be as fast as possible. To throw an insane amount of damage at the enemies critical units. Shatter them and move on. The SoH don't get a lot of milage from Reavers, they end up being insanely expensive really quick, and underperform in the face of equivalent units. Making them effective generally makes them more expensive than a similar sized terminator squads equipped in a similar manner. If you want a better power armoured option, with more flexibility, just take veterans. Assault squads do the Jump Pack Role just fine, for example you can easy get 20 assault marines with 4 power weapons and a sgt with a fist, artificer armour and hand flamer for less points than 15 reavers with chainaxes and a chieftan with artificer armour and a powerfist. Justaerin are always worth taking, though aren't at the top of the Legion Terminators heap where they kind of hung out at for a while after the update. Outperformed by Sekhmet madness, but still dominant in other scenarios... though in the face of Red Butchers, I'd say it depends on who charges who. The Multimelta is a trap though, just invest in more combi weapons that interact with thier deathdealers rule. The Dreadclaw variant is useful because its not a FA slot but a DT, and a useful way to get distraction dreads up close and fast. Bitter Pride is only an issue if you want the SoH to be the lesser partner in an allied scenario, they see themselves as leaders not followers, and dont play that game. TL:DR Sons of Horus are great at the Job they set out for, but it requires finesse to make proper use of them.
What do you think about the new reaver point reduction? I think they're still overpiced if you go for jump packs, but outflank + triple melta may synergize very well with the fleet rule that the RoWs grant them.
@@TheUrizen sorry about taking so long in replying but Google decided telling me I had been replied to could wait a week. Wasnt even aware they got a reduction. Could you link me the change document then I'll take a long look and think
@@Licmebro Generic Termies or Justaerin? If the former, I can't really recommend getting any, The 1 wound and lack of special rules really gimps them. Justaerin are significantly better at not much higher a cost. The latter it really depends, I sit on one heavily kitted out unit, loaded to deep strike and *end* something in a storm of combi-plasma fire. So you could easily pull something similar off while mounted in a spartan, and combined with a s6 charge of killing marines on 2s fun *if the squad is mainly kitted with power axes* you could cause some serious damage, but the cost is the Spartan is a very expensive tank to kit out and teleporting is readily available for less. In theory the more Justaerin squads you bring down the more damage this plasma alpha strike can do. But I think return on investment could rapidly drop if you aren't careful. In most 3kish games you probably get the most bang for your buck with 2 8 man squads, enough plasma to rip the heart out of most things, and plenty of bodies to survive counter attacks and charge into the fray.
And before I forget if you want a really good Spartan shaped tank on the field, I always advocate the proteus pattern LR, It can be a DT for a bunch of stuff, is a tough chassis, a lot cheaper than a base LR in points, the armoured variant is a hottie, and can have 3 twin lascannons and a pintle multimelta. I have a squad of breachers rolling in one, and it rarely lets me down.
There is an easier way. Pop Goes the Monkey makes "Night Wolf" shoulder pads and "Dog & Crescent" insignia that are perfect for a Luna Wolves army. But it is Forge World that should produce these bitz for one of the most famous Heresy legions. Not some random 3rd party companies.
C Castillo just to spread some extra advise from a SoH player. The XVI are basically alpha strike masters. 2 Characters Mal and Horus both let you take Veterans as troops without rites of war. Also seriously. With Justaerin. Take combi plasma. Never heavy flamer or multi meltas. They are insane as they DS in with 10 plasma guns at BS 5
As someone who plays against SOH a lot, they have some of the best legion rules IF TRAITOR. They are one of the only legions to get a bonus to both range and melee, have pretty much no downside, and reserves manipulation on top of that. Their range bonus is circumstancially better than fists, their melee is also better than night lords ( once again circumstances but still very viable). Combine this with horus who is utter horseshit as far as a primarch is concerned, or even maloghurst and youll hammer anyone short of 1k sons.
Battle Brothers, Loyalists, And Chaos Cultists, We made it. The next episode of getting started is, drum roll please... THE WORD BEARERS!!! (Chaotic celebration) Now we will be able to shit on the ultra smurfs with a sexy red black and silver color scheme! In all seriousness thought, thank you Macca for this series, it’s a meet way to help people get into the hobby and help people who are already established. Keep up the good work mate!
This video is older but as someone started 30k SoH, last x-mas i gave them my heart, awesome video. Thank you so much, great videos. btw: would love more rules videos. your 39min on how to play is good... but there could be more, detailed stuff, or with clearer example on some Fight situations. Initiative steps e.g. moving in while in initiative after killing some guys. you left out of some things, that may be of course for default 40k players have been mandatory on some rule versions...
Istvaan 3 for loyalists, maybe you can have a force that you can make the lore have them be too far to reach Horus until they heard that he went rebellious?
Not sure if you'll see or respond to this but I'm wondering if running a loyalist luna wolves army is an acceptable in general if done right. Perhaps run with someone like cruz torgaden or loken esqu leading them and using SOH rules. I Just like the OG colors rather than the sea green. Also a fan of the luna wolves style. Looking to form a spear tip but not sure how a pretty obscure army would be accepted. Been chipmonking mk III and mk IV so no beakies. Thanks for the time if you see this. Cheers Maca love the the honest options keep them coming!
The Kharybdis is such an awesome model, and I'm going to get one at some point. Does anyone have any idea how easy they are to assemble though? Not many videos or anything, usually just the rare unboxing one. Anyone on here ever bought one?
numbSKULLery IF the high lords and the Mechanicum found out then yes, there would be trouble, however the gene seed tithes the AdMech are receiving are of the “yellow” variety. As far as the Imperium knows, they are an Imperial Fists successor chapter.
i have a question, i'm building a 20 man assult squad with jump packs for my sons of horus and i'm not sure anymore whether i should make them reaver. what would be better?
Nope. Not interested n 8th ed or 8th ed tactics. It's not a game I'm into and whenever I cover it, I usually end up annoyed. I lack the knowledge as well, so it's just best for me to ignore it.
All good, worth the wait! You recently inspired me to really give 30k Iron Hands a go and expand my collection and I thought a mixed force with some Mechanicum would really be awesome. Keep up the great work!
You say that banestrike is shit because it only works on space marines and not terminators or orks... But this is Heresy. Power armoured space marines are like 99% of the infantry that you come across.
have you ever played against an average salamander army? most of it is 2+ and in transports. banestrike is too expensive to be worthwhile especially when you play on boards with plenty of cover
Of course there are exceptions (Mechanicum being the number one) but if you went through every battle report on youtube, I almost guarantee that a vast percentage of the infantry you see is 3+
Furthermore, it isnt expensive if you use them on seekers. I value the ability to move and shoot banestrike rather than use the heavy Scorpius shells. And as an added bonus for switching, you get the +1 BS from the legion trait making them BS6
i can not see any reason why you would put a seeker squad within 9" of the enemy, unless you want to lose them. it isnt worth the hassle i'd rather spend points on combi weapons and eat something more worthwhile than tacticals. bs6 is pretty pointless tbh
I'm thinking of starting a MkII/MkIV Luna Wolves/Sons of Horus army for 8th ed 40k. Buy all the best units and all the best rules combos. Whenever a new hotness comes up for example Dark Angel Black Knights - buy a unit of Scimitar jetbikes, arm them with WYSIWIG weapons and paint them in Sons of Horus pattern. Buy a unit of MkIV assault squad and field them as Blood Angels Death Company with the SoH paint on them etc.
Hey Macca the units are interchangable. You can field a Javelin speeder in 7ed Heresy, but at the same time you can magnetise weapons and use it as a Dark Angel Talonmaster in 8th, of course with the SoH paints and symbols. + Collin I never played Chaos only against it, that's why I never considered this warband. But you are right we can use the Heresy models both as loyalist & traitors, both in HH and 8th ed40k.
Ultra have amazing morale, give bonus morale to allies, have solid specialist units, have far more potent specialist wargear and if one Ultramarine unit shoots an enemy then ALL Ultramarines shooting that unit get to re-roll 1's to wound or pen the target. That's a much stronger set of combos.
The unique units are great. But the Legion rules are not good. Not many units have fear or cause pinning. Leadership for regroup isn't that important since you have to have lost loads of guys anyway. If the re roll ones was just a flat bonus like the other Legion rules I'd agree. But I play 4K games and it's very rare that you're going to have that many units shooting at one target. You tend to have your AT, your AA and AI all with unique roles. It doesn't make sense to shoot 20 tacticals at a tank to give your heavy support squad rerolls of a one. I mean White Scars get the same bonus for moving. I've heard people suggest getting rhinos. But them Iam paying more per man, wasting points on a tank I don't need to get a re roll of a one. In some battles I honestly forget about that rule since it's so bad. In a big game your army is going to be so spread out that you don't get that many units in range to fire. You'll be spreading those blocks of infantry out to avoid artillery.
Plus Gulliman isn't a good Primarch. He's got an average Primarch stat line so he can't tank damage like Ferrus. He doesn't buff his army at all. Whereas Dorn and Fulgrim give major bonuses. He is also not as capable a fighter.
Whereas SoH get: Bonus BS within 12 Reroll reserves Extra attacks So they're very specialised at getting up close, shooting people and assaulting. This gives you a lot more synergy and combos than a small reroll on shooting and some esoteric morale buffs. The rules don't turn Ultra into an amazing gun line army the same way SoH rules make them great at this role.
First of all, Guilliman is a phenomenal Primarch, actually one of the strongest in a fist fight and gives a wide Variety of buffs to the force. As for the morale, think of this, Ultramarines give Militia and Solar Auxillia higher leadership (+1 generally) which is a massive boost to those factions as leadership is a stumbling point for them. On top of that pinning, fear and fear-causing is a lot more common than you think, with Iron Warriors having a ridiculous amount of pinning weaponry in Heavy Bolter form. The big fear-factor is Primarchs, Night Lords, who can have up to a negative 3 modifier, and monstrous creatures such as almost the entire Legio Cybernetica. As for spreading infantry out, that's fantastic but tables can channel troops into fire lanes, and some weapons such as quad mortars and the typhon laugh at any attempt to 'spread' out your forces. With objective gameplay being so big in the heresy, having forces that will reliably hang around on an objective is a big deal, and having re-rolls of 1's to wound on the right units (krak missiles, volkite culverins on heavy support, Fulmtari Terminators etc) can really make a difference in the long game.
Artifacer sergeants are a cheesy option. It's a bit like taking phosphex quad guns, it's breaks and imbalances the game. Why take anything that isn't AP2? It invalidates the weakness of power fits and power axes striking Last. For 10 points you get a Terminator in your squad.
Funny story about that, I charged a 10-man Khenetai Blade Occult squad into an Alpha Legion unit with an artificer sgt. I rolled 70 attacks at weapon skill 6 with hatred (from the attached chaplain) and initiative 7. He had to make something like 55 saves. We had a chuckle (many things had to go perfectly right for this charge to happen in this way) and thought let's see how many of these blows he can stop. We roll the first dice and it's a 1. The Sgt is promptly removed, as is the entire unit of tactical space marines.
Oh it's a legit thing at my group. People can't stand it. I mean you pretty much can't use centurions for this reason as Artifacer serg can just tank wounds and power fist everything.
It happens all the time here too, but I have ended many a sgt's reign of terror too soon, with a well-timed charge, bullet or even just bad luck for the guy.
I'm a simple man; I see heresy and I click like.
Just a quick commentary from a player of the XVI.
The rules are very much tailored to suit the Sons in lore style, a lot of focus on reserve manipulation in tip of the spear, and a singular catastrophic alpha strike from death dealers. Easy access to veteran squads as troops, bonus' for assault and rapid fire weapons being used in close quarters, several methods of getting terminators/justaerin to deep strike, and make use of massed devastatingly accurate firepower, I for instance regularly use a 10 man squad of Justaerin with combi plasma to drop in with all hell ready to break loose, very little survives such a hammering as they open up. And don't see any reason as to why generic terminators wouldn't do the job just as effectively, admitted with some plasma blasters taped in for giggles.
The name of the game is always go for a decapitating strike, and then mop up. Massed outflankers and teleporting to get where you need to be as fast as possible. To throw an insane amount of damage at the enemies critical units. Shatter them and move on.
The SoH don't get a lot of milage from Reavers, they end up being insanely expensive really quick, and underperform in the face of equivalent units. Making them effective generally makes them more expensive than a similar sized terminator squads equipped in a similar manner. If you want a better power armoured option, with more flexibility, just take veterans. Assault squads do the Jump Pack Role just fine, for example you can easy get 20 assault marines with 4 power weapons and a sgt with a fist, artificer armour and hand flamer for less points than 15 reavers with chainaxes and a chieftan with artificer armour and a powerfist.
Justaerin are always worth taking, though aren't at the top of the Legion Terminators heap where they kind of hung out at for a while after the update. Outperformed by Sekhmet madness, but still dominant in other scenarios... though in the face of Red Butchers, I'd say it depends on who charges who. The Multimelta is a trap though, just invest in more combi weapons that interact with thier deathdealers rule.
The Dreadclaw variant is useful because its not a FA slot but a DT, and a useful way to get distraction dreads up close and fast.
Bitter Pride is only an issue if you want the SoH to be the lesser partner in an allied scenario, they see themselves as leaders not followers, and dont play that game.
TL:DR Sons of Horus are great at the Job they set out for, but it requires finesse to make proper use of them.
What do you think about the new reaver point reduction?
I think they're still overpiced if you go for jump packs, but outflank + triple melta may synergize very well with the fleet rule that the RoWs grant them.
@@TheUrizen sorry about taking so long in replying but Google decided telling me I had been replied to could wait a week. Wasnt even aware they got a reduction. Could you link me the change document then I'll take a long look and think
How many terminators would you recommend and would you recommend getting 1 or 2 Spartans lol
@@Licmebro Generic Termies or Justaerin?
If the former, I can't really recommend getting any, The 1 wound and lack of special rules really gimps them. Justaerin are significantly better at not much higher a cost.
The latter it really depends, I sit on one heavily kitted out unit, loaded to deep strike and *end* something in a storm of combi-plasma fire. So you could easily pull something similar off while mounted in a spartan, and combined with a s6 charge of killing marines on 2s fun *if the squad is mainly kitted with power axes* you could cause some serious damage, but the cost is the Spartan is a very expensive tank to kit out and teleporting is readily available for less. In theory the more Justaerin squads you bring down the more damage this plasma alpha strike can do. But I think return on investment could rapidly drop if you aren't careful. In most 3kish games you probably get the most bang for your buck with 2 8 man squads, enough plasma to rip the heart out of most things, and plenty of bodies to survive counter attacks and charge into the fray.
And before I forget if you want a really good Spartan shaped tank on the field, I always advocate the proteus pattern LR, It can be a DT for a bunch of stuff, is a tough chassis, a lot cheaper than a base LR in points, the armoured variant is a hottie, and can have 3 twin lascannons and a pintle multimelta. I have a squad of breachers rolling in one, and it rarely lets me down.
I’ve always loved the Luna Wolves. They do wolfiness right without going full yiff like that other legion.
benjamin S lame joke get new material
@@notme-ew9sv wym lmao makes sense
Love the Luna Wolves color scheme
But FW doesn't sell Luna Wolves shoulder pads, rhino doors etc.
just use war hounds and space wolves transfers if you are really trying to do luna wolves. its annoying but can be done
There is an easier way. Pop Goes the Monkey makes "Night Wolf" shoulder pads and "Dog & Crescent" insignia that are perfect for a Luna Wolves army. But it is Forge World that should produce these bitz for one of the most famous Heresy legions. Not some random 3rd party companies.
My 3k points of Luna Wolves are done up with printed at home transfers.
Ah, the coolest legion with the shittiest rules.
Your videos made me get Betrayal at Calth to get 30k started. Doing Sons of Horus so this video is ideal.
C Castillo just to spread some extra advise from a SoH player. The XVI are basically alpha strike masters. 2 Characters Mal and Horus both let you take Veterans as troops without rites of war. Also seriously. With Justaerin. Take combi plasma. Never heavy flamer or multi meltas. They are insane as they DS in with 10 plasma guns at BS 5
I don't play or collect Horus Heresy but I do love the models.
That command squad with that greenish and black colorscheme is gorgeous!
As someone who plays against SOH a lot, they have some of the best legion rules IF TRAITOR. They are one of the only legions to get a bonus to both range and melee, have pretty much no downside, and reserves manipulation on top of that. Their range bonus is circumstancially better than fists, their melee is also better than night lords ( once again circumstances but still very viable). Combine this with horus who is utter horseshit as far as a primarch is concerned, or even maloghurst and youll hammer anyone short of 1k sons.
Battle Brothers,
Loyalists,
And Chaos Cultists,
We made it. The next episode of getting started is, drum roll please...
THE WORD BEARERS!!!
(Chaotic celebration)
Now we will be able to shit on the ultra smurfs with a sexy red black and silver color scheme!
In all seriousness thought, thank you Macca for this series, it’s a meet way to help people get into the hobby and help people who are already established.
Keep up the good work mate!
I would have waited *years* for this.
" u can hit him with chair on parking lot after":dddddddd
In all my experience with using death dealer, it has been savage and totally worth it.
It is ridiculously effective with Tactical Support Squads coming out of transports. 20 BS5 Plasma shots will absolutely wreck things.
This video is older but as someone started 30k SoH, last x-mas i gave them my heart, awesome video.
Thank you so much, great videos.
btw: would love more rules videos. your 39min on how to play is good... but there could be more, detailed stuff, or with clearer example on some Fight situations. Initiative steps e.g. moving in while in initiative after killing some guys. you left out of some things, that may be of course for default 40k players have been mandatory on some rule versions...
when you deepstrike that dreadclaw you are in hover mode, the bonus is that it can jink, and hope its nightfight for a 3+ jink.
Was wondering. Is there any way to have loyalist sons? I love the paint scheme but hate the traitor part.
Istvaan 3 for loyalists, maybe you can have a force that you can make the lore have them be too far to reach Horus until they heard that he went rebellious?
Not sure if you'll see or respond to this but I'm wondering if running a loyalist luna wolves army is an acceptable in general if done right. Perhaps run with someone like cruz torgaden or loken esqu leading them and using SOH rules. I Just like the OG colors rather than the sea green. Also a fan of the luna wolves style. Looking to form a spear tip but not sure how a pretty obscure army would be accepted. Been chipmonking mk III and mk IV so no beakies. Thanks for the time if you see this. Cheers Maca love the the honest options keep them coming!
Things were so much simpler when you made these videos Macca
The Kharybdis is such an awesome model, and I'm going to get one at some point. Does anyone have any idea how easy they are to assemble though? Not many videos or anything, usually just the rare unboxing one. Anyone on here ever bought one?
Best Legion! Based my chapter on surviving loyalist Luna wolves.
numbSKULLery IF the high lords and the Mechanicum found out then yes, there would be trouble, however the gene seed tithes the AdMech are receiving are of the “yellow” variety. As far as the Imperium knows, they are an Imperial Fists successor chapter.
based mine on surviving loyalist world eaters lol
i have a question, i'm building a 20 man assult squad with jump packs for my sons of horus and i'm not sure anymore whether i should make them reaver. what would be better?
This is much more skillful army. Very deadly in the right hands.
When the new Imperial Armour drops will you do these for ForgeWorld Chapters?
Nope. Not interested n 8th ed or 8th ed tactics. It's not a game I'm into and whenever I cover it, I usually end up annoyed. I lack the knowledge as well, so it's just best for me to ignore it.
Roger Roger.
Worst legion rules? What have you been smoking and where can I get some.
I started the hobby too late. Forgeworld no longer has this cool upgrades 💔
Fun fact, the sons of horus are not the black legion.
Flare shield doesnt matter to barrage weapons as they are not coming from the front facing, barrage strikes side armour does it not?
If it's a direct hit, yes, otherwise it's from the centre of the template.
Love your stuff! Can you do Mechanicum next???
You can wait 5 more episodes or so for that.
All good, worth the wait! You recently inspired me to really give 30k Iron Hands a go and expand my collection and I thought a mixed force with some Mechanicum would really be awesome. Keep up the great work!
You say that banestrike is shit because it only works on space marines and not terminators or orks...
But this is Heresy. Power armoured space marines are like 99% of the infantry that you come across.
have you ever played against an average salamander army? most of it is 2+ and in transports. banestrike is too expensive to be worthwhile especially when you play on boards with plenty of cover
Of course there are exceptions (Mechanicum being the number one) but if you went through every battle report on youtube, I almost guarantee that a vast percentage of the infantry you see is 3+
Furthermore, it isnt expensive if you use them on seekers. I value the ability to move and shoot banestrike rather than use the heavy Scorpius shells. And as an added bonus for switching, you get the +1 BS from the legion trait making them BS6
i can not see any reason why you would put a seeker squad within 9" of the enemy, unless you want to lose them. it isnt worth the hassle i'd rather spend points on combi weapons and eat something more worthwhile than tacticals. bs6 is pretty pointless tbh
of course! I am just bringing up a counter argument
Can you sent your thoughts about soh list on 3000 points with horus. Answer me plz😁
Terminators, land raiders, spartans, storm eagles, pride of the legion. Deep strike, and armoured spearhead in the one list.
I'm thinking of starting a MkII/MkIV Luna Wolves/Sons of Horus army for 8th ed 40k. Buy all the best units and all the best rules combos. Whenever a new hotness comes up for example Dark Angel Black Knights - buy a unit of Scimitar jetbikes, arm them with WYSIWIG weapons and paint them in Sons of Horus pattern. Buy a unit of MkIV assault squad and field them as Blood Angels Death Company with the SoH paint on them etc.
Do whatever you like, tho it probably doesn't help with Horus Heresy.
There is a warband of Sons of Horus around in 40k, same colors and everything.
Hey Macca the units are interchangable. You can field a Javelin speeder in 7ed Heresy, but at the same time you can magnetise weapons and use it as a Dark Angel Talonmaster in 8th, of course with the SoH paints and symbols. + Collin I never played Chaos only against it, that's why I never considered this warband. But you are right we can use the Heresy models both as loyalist & traitors, both in HH and 8th ed40k.
I would really love to see Garviel Loken coming back as a Venerable Contemptor Dreadnought too...
How are they shit? Bonus BS, extra attacks, re roll reserves. That's much better than Ultra.
Ultra have amazing morale, give bonus morale to allies, have solid specialist units, have far more potent specialist wargear and if one Ultramarine unit shoots an enemy then ALL Ultramarines shooting that unit get to re-roll 1's to wound or pen the target. That's a much stronger set of combos.
The unique units are great. But the Legion rules are not good. Not many units have fear or cause pinning. Leadership for regroup isn't that important since you have to have lost loads of guys anyway. If the re roll ones was just a flat bonus like the other Legion rules I'd agree. But I play 4K games and it's very rare that you're going to have that many units shooting at one target. You tend to have your AT, your AA and AI all with unique roles. It doesn't make sense to shoot 20 tacticals at a tank to give your heavy support squad rerolls of a one. I mean White Scars get the same bonus for moving. I've heard people suggest getting rhinos. But them Iam paying more per man, wasting points on a tank I don't need to get a re roll of a one. In some battles I honestly forget about that rule since it's so bad. In a big game your army is going to be so spread out that you don't get that many units in range to fire. You'll be spreading those blocks of infantry out to avoid artillery.
Plus Gulliman isn't a good Primarch. He's got an average Primarch stat line so he can't tank damage like Ferrus. He doesn't buff his army at all. Whereas Dorn and Fulgrim give major bonuses. He is also not as capable a fighter.
Whereas SoH get:
Bonus BS within 12
Reroll reserves
Extra attacks
So they're very specialised at getting up close, shooting people and assaulting. This gives you a lot more synergy and combos than a small reroll on shooting and some esoteric morale buffs. The rules don't turn Ultra into an amazing gun line army the same way SoH rules make them great at this role.
First of all, Guilliman is a phenomenal Primarch, actually one of the strongest in a fist fight and gives a wide Variety of buffs to the force.
As for the morale, think of this, Ultramarines give Militia and Solar Auxillia higher leadership (+1 generally) which is a massive boost to those factions as leadership is a stumbling point for them. On top of that pinning, fear and fear-causing is a lot more common than you think, with Iron Warriors having a ridiculous amount of pinning weaponry in Heavy Bolter form. The big fear-factor is Primarchs, Night Lords, who can have up to a negative 3 modifier, and monstrous creatures such as almost the entire Legio Cybernetica.
As for spreading infantry out, that's fantastic but tables can channel troops into fire lanes, and some weapons such as quad mortars and the typhon laugh at any attempt to 'spread' out your forces. With objective gameplay being so big in the heresy, having forces that will reliably hang around on an objective is a big deal, and having re-rolls of 1's to wound on the right units (krak missiles, volkite culverins on heavy support, Fulmtari Terminators etc) can really make a difference in the long game.
Artifacer sergeants are a cheesy option. It's a bit like taking phosphex quad guns, it's breaks and imbalances the game. Why take anything that isn't AP2? It invalidates the weakness of power fits and power axes striking Last. For 10 points you get a Terminator in your squad.
Funny story about that, I charged a 10-man Khenetai Blade Occult squad into an Alpha Legion unit with an artificer sgt. I rolled 70 attacks at weapon skill 6 with hatred (from the attached chaplain) and initiative 7. He had to make something like 55 saves. We had a chuckle (many things had to go perfectly right for this charge to happen in this way) and thought let's see how many of these blows he can stop. We roll the first dice and it's a 1. The Sgt is promptly removed, as is the entire unit of tactical space marines.
Oh it's a legit thing at my group. People can't stand it. I mean you pretty much can't use centurions for this reason as Artifacer serg can just tank wounds and power fist everything.
It happens all the time here too, but I have ended many a sgt's reign of terror too soon, with a well-timed charge, bullet or even just bad luck for the guy.
I agree, I love the Sons of Horus but our rules are bs :(
worst rules! bullshit! dey bs5 within 12 in! #plasma drop pod squad
Luna Wolves are better.
DO THE DAMN SPACE WOOOOOOOLVES!!!!!!!
Leman Russ i think he did he's been on fire lately
???? !! th-cam.com/video/esuLSeMEEHE/w-d-xo.html