Fakes, Felonies, and the Museum of the Bible: Interview with Dr. Joel Baden
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ต.ค. 2024
- The Museum of the Bible has a reputation for housing fakes and looted objects; most recently, the institution was in the news for their forged Dead Sea Scrolls, the arrest of their consultant, Dr. Dirk Obbink, and the revelation that the famous "Gilgamesh Dream Tablet" housed in the museum was removed from Iraq illegally. Dr. Joel Baden, Professor of Hebrew Bible at Yale Divinity School, joins Megan to talk about these many and varied events.
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it is the third video of Joel Baden that i watch and i'm amazed by his knowledge and way to explain these complex histories.
Great interview! The actions of the Green family along with a great deal of religious apologetics can in my mind be summed up in a single phrase "pious fraud". If you have to engage in such overt dishonesty on order to promote your beliefs then perhaps you should ask yourself what those beliefs can truly be worth.
Well the US does love it's Christian Capitalists.
I think your generous in adding the word "pious"
There is not one wet by Pious about these people - it's just their own egos that they rap in the name of Jesus of Nazareth... essentially idolatry
Great interview and a very interesting topic! Thank you!
Also, I think it would be awesome if Dr. Baden returned to talk about the formation of the Pentateuch!! I'm glad Dr. Josh got his question in :)
Wow. So facinating and so disheartening at the same time. Thanks for covering this topic. And thank you also for scrolling info on upcoming interviews at the end of the video. First time I noticed this. I will be watching out for it and marking my calender from now on.
We also have an online calendar - www.digitalhammurabi.com/calendar, but I always forget to mention it!
I'm glad you enjoyed the show, "fascinating and disheartening" is a great way to describe this topic.
"Turns out it was little bits of cuneiform that nobody wants to look at."
And Megan (the assyriologist)'s eyebrows go up, as if to say, "what about me? I wanna look at them!... Priceless.
I already had resolved to never darken the doorstep of Hobby Lobby. As a former fundie, now atheist, when I went in there years ago I heard music over the PA system that I recognized as praise songs from the fundie services I had attended earlier in my life, which seriously creeped me out. Then there was the court case in which they undermined health care for women. I absolutely wouldn't go in their stores if they were the only place to get an item I was looking for; I would just go without first.
The topic under discussion in this interview adds even more to my already significant distaste for this repugnant corporation. On a more positive note, great interview! I really enjoyed it and learned some interesting stuff from it. Thanks to both of you!
Have you read the opinion in the court case? All the court said was that HL was complying with the law passed by Congress. If you think that law "undermine[s] health care for women", then get Congress to change the law.
Do you also avoid clothing companies that use child labor in other countries?
@@Iamwrongbut Where did he express disdain for child labor in other countries?
Non Progredi Est Regredi he didn’t. But he said that he wouldn’t go to a HL ever again because of their bad female healthcare practices. Just wondering if he was consistent across the board.
@@Iamwrongbut tu quoque is a logical fallacy, I think you were being given a chance to recognise it, not double down.
I would love to have Dr. Baden write a curriculum for studying the Bible (in public school, no less, but that is asking too much.)
It!s a matter of Time, it probably will come about, however your just ahead of your time by about 75 years.
I loved this interview!! I’m going to get Dr Baden’s book.
Great interview. Don't comment much but had to for this one. Well done everyone.
If God wants to convince atheists & believers of other religions of his message,
why not leave us original copies of the words of Jesus, in his own handwriting? (easy for a God)
Instead of that we get, _"the gospels",_ ancient oral stories, written down decades after the fact,
2nd & 3rd person hearsay recorded by "we don't know who", of which no original copies exist.
God doesn’t need to convince you bud
@@Apologeticsnoapology You speak for God, do you ?
_God told you what he doesn't need to do ?_
WOW
lol
@@moodyrick8503 ur arrogance is showing babe
@@Apologeticsnoapology Make an intelligent point, or find someone else to bug.
What is the name of the book that Dr. Baden did on this subject?
BTW, how much of a dork am I that I dance and hum the Digital Hamurabi jingle when your videos come on AND as I going thru my daily routines??? 🤣
His book is called “Bible Nation: The United States of Hobby Lobby” :-)
Thank you!
Please more content with Mr Joel Baden
"The safest place for an artifact is in the ground" isn't an argument to distinguish between legitimate archeological excavation and looting.
The Bible museum situation was the death knell for my association with evangelical Christianity (I was raised in the fundie evangelical cult) - and Biblical literalism.
Excelente programa
There is no such thing as a _"chain of custody",_ for the bible.
This is why _"faith"_ is so crucial for Christianity.
And of course, _"faith is the excuse people give when they don't have a good reason",_
because if they had a _"good reason",_ they would not require faith.
I can't help but think the world's antiquities and wildlife are in the same position, that looting and poaching are similar problems. Poaching is driven by inequality, the rich incentivise the poor to kill wildlife, so I wonder whether the inequality in the ME incentivises the trade in looted and stolen treasures?
You are definitely on to something hear. Poverty definitely plays a key role in looting and even some forging of archaic artifacts all aroind the world.
We lock ordinary people up for smoking a plant but we can't do anything about millionaires contributing to the looting of antiquities by not doing due diligence? JFC what is wrong with this country?
14:20 Anyone else start singing "Poof - there it is! Poof - there it is! Ya'll ready for this?!" in their mind?
I heard that Hobby Lobby sells "camel needles" that have an eye so large that even rich men can enter into Heaven.
I've done my own cuneiform tablets (replicas of actual texts). I don't know if they are that beautiful though : P
great show!
Thanks
you guys are so great and Joel is the best guest
He's not only incredibly handsome, but he has a cat!
I wonder if the greens, used supplies from the store to make these fakes?
Where is the Gilgamesh tablet now? Do the Feds or the Greens still have it.
"I worship the baby Jesus. Because he hasn't done any of his miracling yet so he's still at full power."-Rickey Bobby.
Way to Go !!!
Don't buy, loot it yourself.
I'm shocked that they dont have the genuine shroud or one of John the Baptists many skulls.
Give them time...
I banned Hobby Lobby a few years ago for their birth control policy and their unethical museum practices. You confirmed my decision.
Good video.
Items from the Green Collection, which is owned by Hobby Lobby, were donated to the Museum of the Bible, providing a tax write-off to Hobby Lobby.: 25
Lol I've been there. It didn't occur to me how weird the living exhibit was until now. It's literally just a guy writing in the middle of the museum. I wonder how much he gets paid
So is this Gilgamesh tablet legitimate?
The words of Ken Ham come to mind.. "Same evidence, different interpretation".
Easy on the cat! 32:00
Just as an update, Dirk Obbink is now being sued by Hobby Lobby for over 7 million dollars. I never thought I'd say it, but Go Hobby Lobby.
Ironic if they win and get more money after using ill-gotten items to get a tax deduction and to make a profit off items they purchased for cheap and sold dear.
Video kept buffeting
Crooked for Jesus!
👏👏👏👏👏👏
Every time he says "the Greens," I briefly think, "Even environmentalists are involved with this somehow."
*The Holy Bible;*
_"The Big Book Of Multiple Choice Answers"_
FFRF has a video about the Green's museum too. They aren't flattering it either: th-cam.com/video/dKPN1nWgi6o/w-d-xo.html
Aren’t the Greens big fans of Kenneth Copland? Birds of a feather…
Since in his mind if people only bought bible antiquities that had paperwork, then there would be no black market. At some point the antiquities didn't have paper work, so how would we ever get paper work if someone didn't buy them? So it would be his view then that if men didn't want sex, then we would never have prostitution. Therefor prostitution is the fault of men. Nevermind that women try to entice men to pay for sex.
Pretty sure they got busted again last week 🤣
Endless soap opera of sordidness
What do you wanna bet that all the Dead Sea scrolls are fake?
All of them ever, or just the ones in the MOTB?
Digital Hammurabi most of them not just the ones at this museum?
@@theautoman22 I think the majority of scholars would be in disagreement with you there :)
Digital Hammurabi yeah but how many people really got to see and test the scrolls for authenticity?
@@theautoman22 David Green has showen he has no compunction against committing fraud, so it certainly is not beneath him to have forged/faked copies of the dead sea scrolls in his "museum", but the actual scrolls themselves have been determined to be authentic.
Save money America $$$$$ De-fund D.C.
The whole non provident discussion reeks of the "Tainted Data" fallacy, which is a very dangerous path to go down
I would posit that most every notable antiquities collection was built this way and before we moralize too much about how much better things are now in academia compared to the Greens, read newrepublic.com/article/150642/british-museums-looting-problem
Here's one from right in Dr. Baden's backyard: www.jstor.org/stable/10.5325/jeasmedarcherstu.5.1.0057?seq=1
Because of the things that were done in the past, most civilized countries now have laws to prevent handling of stolen goods. But this company likes to portray themselves as (more) moral because they’re christians, and they turn out to be crooks. On top of that, they prevent scholars from examining material in their possession. This really undermines the faith they profess to have in scripture.
Conclusion: they’re just a bunch of hypocrites and crooks that deserve to be exposed at every angle.
@@kellydalstok8900 you didn't even read the links. These reputable institutions were breaking those very laws in the past 10 years.