Understanding stance - how to teach it, how to view it, how to achieve it. Every level skier works on stance. Video #1 of 3, Alain Veth's TSV instructor clinic.
Biggest hindrance in having angle #1 aligned, is improper fitting boots. The classic rental boot does not allow guests to the stand properly in their boots.
When I am teaching kids, we talk about what other sports they play and then I relate their sport's athletic or ready position to their ski position/stance - tennis, baseball/softball infielder, soccer goal keeper, basketball player on defense - it is all the same position with ankles, knees and hips flexing to attain a balanced position. I ask them to show me and we talk about how that is their ski stance also.
When we get into or stances, we talk about the reason why this position works for so many sports, it is because from that balanced position, we can go in any direction, just like mentioned in the video.
Wow Alain is pointing out everything I was doing wrong before. It’s hard for recreational skiers to feel or notice the difference till someone shows it in person so that the skier knows how it feels in the correct stance. All three of my past group lessons never had an instructor pointing out my bad stance (Aspen, Taos, A-Basin). This is so fundamental!
I am so confused. Been trying to figure this out for hours now. When he says flex the ankle, what exactly is happening physically. Is he pushing his knees forward, thus flexing the ankles and closing the angle between feet and shin? Or is he flexing his feet up inside the boot to flex the ankle, and engaging the muscle on the shin to close the angle???
@@DebArmstrongSkiStrongso the cue for that would be to try to touch the top portion of the boot, in where the foot is? But without actually lifting the foot
This is the biggest issue i have with skiing. Too often i find myself bent at the hips trying to compensate for being too far back in my boots. I really enjoyed this video, thank you for sharing.
Thanks for more great content, Deb. I've been following your videos for years and there is always something great to take back to the hill with me to try out!
Edit: I really don't mean to downtalk the video, or anyone in it. There is important information here, but not the way a learner should get it presented. ----- No. "The most important angle" is the least important one. Whatever argument saying the ankle is the most important one, I can give you a better one that it is the opposite. Just look at the video, and I can explain. If it was true that tibialis anterior get you in balance from being "in the back", this should be possible in soft boots too. Try doing this in cross country skiing shoes. Just the size and type of muscle does tell us that tibialis anterior is not meant to move our mass like this. If it was, the anatomy of it would be much different. Alain says the boot is covering the ankle. "It's plastic, it's stiff". And that is a good indicator that whatever active movement in the ankle, has to fight the boot. Is he telling me this tiny muscle body has to move my mass and fight the boot at the same time? Alain makes fun of how stupid it is to move his weight by chaning angle in one(!) joint over his knees, but look a bit later when he is doing squats. Just notice how his ankle joint is not changing. All of a sudden it is not a problem to change angles and stay in balance. I know it is to prove a point, but it proves so much more than what he wants to. Fore and aft movement is not actively done by gastrocnemius and tibialis anterior. It is done by the muscles above the boot. And we all know this, we just like to think of it differently. @DebArmstrongSkiStrong
Watch this video then let’s discuss. The vast majority of skiers do not have ankle awareness. And what separates good skiers from The best skiers is ankle use Ankle flexion for skiing, why and how th-cam.com/video/oDTP-aUlloo/w-d-xo.html
@@DebArmstrongSkiStrong Thank you for the answer, Deb! I was afraid to come off as disrespectful, so if I did, have my apologies. (English is my third language and I struggle to find the words. I fear we talk past one another to some degree.) It is a good video, the one you linked. I really like it, and this is what I get out of it: #1 Alex talkes about ankle flexion as to have a forward dynamic stance. #2 Chase talkes about ankle flexion as to have pressure on that foot. His que is how he feels, while having enough pressure on the outside ski. #3 Michael talkes about his own way of understanding this ("just think about constantly having your knees over your toes"), because what some of his coaches said maybe didn't make fully sense? I find the word "constantly" very important here. The boot forces the ankle into an angle and previous mentioned reasons makes active ankle movement/flexion (from the muscles controlling the ankle) counter intuitive. #4 Caitlin flexes against the boot as the previous three. #5 Tuva(?) talkes about the same as #1 and #2. #6 Stein talkes about using the ankle to feel for the edge of the ski - sideways movement. #7 Olin nails what fore and aft balance is about and what makes it difficult. It is the same topic as #1-#5. None of these skiers talkes about flexing the ankle as Alain is doing. They all use the angle of the boot to their advantage for controlling their center of mass on the skiis. Many commenters on the video understand this as well, but my takeaway from the comment section is that we mean different things when talking about ankle flexion. It mostly boils down to that proper contact between shin and tongue comes from having enough forward stance. That center of mass is far enough in front. My claim is that the muscles controlling the ankle length wise, gastrocnemius and tibialis anterior, are not controlling this. Reasons above, and another one of your videos where I left way too many coments about this. Our center of mass is controlled above the boot, not in the stiff boot. Edit: some of the names were wrongly written, and probably still is.
I was in Taos around 2000 and took the Super Ski week class lead by Alain. (wish that course would come back…just saying). I just transitioned from straight to shaped skis and Alain and his instructors “re-tuned” me to ski properly on them. I have three fond memories 1. I remember Alain having me follow him down a bump run. I did and I mimic everything he did. I was directly behind him and as he could hear me getting closer, he would continuously speed up until we were mostly skimming the tops. I have never skied that fast on bumps since. 2. I skied Stockli for the first time, bought a pair (the same model Alain was on), and have been with this brand ever since. And at the time I may have been the only skier on Stocki in Minnesota because of the Le Ski Mastery. 3. The Martini Tree 😊
The bane of my life is students who've decided to go boot buying with a "ski friend" who tells them "good skiers have stiff boots" blocking out a huge range of effective movement. Those student get to do a whole session with their top clips undone. 🙂
I find if while bending forward in the skiing stance if your fore arms are level like you are holding a tray you are more or less balanced over the mid section of your skis. But I'm just an intermediate beginner, so what do I know.
a word describes stance and balance... Counterbary. It's a big funny sounding word deep in the physics of general relativity and local frame of reference. Professionals should understand the importance of knowing this as it is a function of nature and every thing we do is governed by it. Lacking knowledge of actuality is no excuse for not knowing this.
Thanks! Deb, always good content. I’m starting my 5 year old grandson skiing this winter. Skied all through the PNW for 60 years. Come on out to Mt Bachelor, we’d love to see you here.
Excellent tips here. So many beginners look rigid because they hold the position they’ve been taught religiously in all situations rather than think of it as a “zone” to operate in. When you initiate a turn, those angles open up, then fold down again as you drive through the turn. When you’re on a steep gradient, the stance moves forward to maintain the balance. And although the ankle is flexed so the shin is braced against the front of the boot, the pressure is straight down onto the ski, encouraging it to flex and allow the edges to bite throughout the length of the ski. Of course this relates to alpine downhill skiing on piste. Off piste in deep powder is another story (you angle further back to avoid burying your tips!)
Deb, perhaps you can have Alain explain his negative comment about railroad tracks. Does he not like the name for the drill or just not like the drill itself? Thanks. //Marshall
Deb, He mentioned dorsiflexion of the foot. Hmm? Stand on your feet. Push your knee forward. This movement closes (flexes) the ankle joint. The Tibalis Anterior is not dorsiflexing the foot.
@@DebArmstrongSkiStrong Love these discussions. Dr. Steinberg is correct that the tibialis anterior is not flexing the boot. But you are also correct that the ankle joint is closing which is typically called dorsiflexion. Now, think of the image of squatting that Alain uses. When we squat, the ankle dorsiflexes (closes) but most of the effort to control the loading are the muscles used to plantar flex in the eccentric realm. Have to love this sport.
@@dondaigle9646, Yes and no. We refer to movements of the foot as dorsiflexion, plantarflexion, inversion, and eversion. When someone uses the term dorsiflexion to describe the movement of the leg over the foot, it is not a correct description. The confusion arises because dorsiflexion of the foot closes the ankle, as does the forward movement of the leg over the foot. These are two separate movements. We should focus on the body parts that move.
@@dr.r.s.steinberg9347 Thank you for your clarification. You put it much better than I did. Totally agree about the leg moving over the foot. What then should we call the "closing" of the ankle joint with the leg moving forward if not dorsiflexion? There must be a more accurate term. And would this only lead to more confusion? I really enjoy this exchange. BTW, Merry Christmas.
@@dondaigle9646, We can call the movement of the leg over the foot (the foot is not moving) closing the ankle joint. Let go of the word "dorsiflexion." Using the word is as bad as bootfitters using the phrase "sixth toe" to describe the laterally protruding head of the fifth metatarsal.
Hello and first of all thank you for the efort you are puting to make these videos, i always have something new to tryout on the slopes, just a quick question if you dont mind, have you ever returned to Sarajevo and ski again there ? All the best wishes from Slovenia
you know the ski seasons in full swing when we're getting great videos from deb 😁
Thanks Clinton😉
Biggest hindrance in having angle #1 aligned, is improper fitting boots. The classic rental boot does not allow guests to the stand properly in their boots.
3 of 5 guests today did not have good alignment due to poor fitting boots.
When I am teaching kids, we talk about what other sports they play and then I relate their sport's athletic or ready position to their ski position/stance - tennis, baseball/softball infielder, soccer goal keeper, basketball player on defense - it is all the same position with ankles, knees and hips flexing to attain a balanced position. I ask them to show me and we talk about how that is their ski stance also.
When we get into or stances, we talk about the reason why this position works for so many sports, it is because from that balanced position, we can go in any direction, just like mentioned in the video.
Wow Alain is pointing out everything I was doing wrong before. It’s hard for recreational skiers to feel or notice the difference till someone shows it in person so that the skier knows how it feels in the correct stance. All three of my past group lessons never had an instructor pointing out my bad stance (Aspen, Taos, A-Basin). This is so fundamental!
I am so confused. Been trying to figure this out for hours now. When he says flex the ankle, what exactly is happening physically. Is he pushing his knees forward, thus flexing the ankles and closing the angle between feet and shin? Or is he flexing his feet up inside the boot to flex the ankle, and engaging the muscle on the shin to close the angle???
Your second point. Flex the muscle on the shin to close the angle
@@DebArmstrongSkiStrongso the cue for that would be to try to touch the top portion of the boot, in where the foot is? But without actually lifting the foot
@@ravisangani3185 depends on your boot fit. Whatever you need to do to generate dorsiflexion
Fantastic! Thank you! I’m telling my guests, “if you bend your ankles, the other joints will follow in proportion (usually) all the time.
This is the biggest issue i have with skiing. Too often i find myself bent at the hips trying to compensate for being too far back in my boots. I really enjoyed this video, thank you for sharing.
I know stance is important but the gloves Deb, the gloves!!
That’s right!😉
Thanks for more great content, Deb. I've been following your videos for years and there is always something great to take back to the hill with me to try out!
Love it
Edit: I really don't mean to downtalk the video, or anyone in it. There is important information here, but not the way a learner should get it presented.
-----
No. "The most important angle" is the least important one. Whatever argument saying the ankle is the most important one, I can give you a better one that it is the opposite. Just look at the video, and I can explain.
If it was true that tibialis anterior get you in balance from being "in the back", this should be possible in soft boots too. Try doing this in cross country skiing shoes. Just the size and type of muscle does tell us that tibialis anterior is not meant to move our mass like this. If it was, the anatomy of it would be much different.
Alain says the boot is covering the ankle. "It's plastic, it's stiff". And that is a good indicator that whatever active movement in the ankle, has to fight the boot. Is he telling me this tiny muscle body has to move my mass and fight the boot at the same time?
Alain makes fun of how stupid it is to move his weight by chaning angle in one(!) joint over his knees, but look a bit later when he is doing squats. Just notice how his ankle joint is not changing. All of a sudden it is not a problem to change angles and stay in balance. I know it is to prove a point, but it proves so much more than what he wants to.
Fore and aft movement is not actively done by gastrocnemius and tibialis anterior. It is done by the muscles above the boot. And we all know this, we just like to think of it differently. @DebArmstrongSkiStrong
Watch this video then let’s discuss. The vast majority of skiers do not have ankle awareness. And what separates good skiers from
The best skiers is ankle use
Ankle flexion for skiing, why and how
th-cam.com/video/oDTP-aUlloo/w-d-xo.html
@@DebArmstrongSkiStrong Thank you for the answer, Deb! I was afraid to come off as disrespectful, so if I did, have my apologies. (English is my third language and I struggle to find the words. I fear we talk past one another to some degree.)
It is a good video, the one you linked. I really like it, and this is what I get out of it:
#1 Alex talkes about ankle flexion as to have a forward dynamic stance.
#2 Chase talkes about ankle flexion as to have pressure on that foot. His que is how he feels, while having enough pressure on the outside ski.
#3 Michael talkes about his own way of understanding this ("just think about constantly having your knees over your toes"), because what some of his coaches said maybe didn't make fully sense? I find the word "constantly" very important here. The boot forces the ankle into an angle and previous mentioned reasons makes active ankle movement/flexion (from the muscles controlling the ankle) counter intuitive.
#4 Caitlin flexes against the boot as the previous three.
#5 Tuva(?) talkes about the same as #1 and #2.
#6 Stein talkes about using the ankle to feel for the edge of the ski - sideways movement.
#7 Olin nails what fore and aft balance is about and what makes it difficult. It is the same topic as #1-#5.
None of these skiers talkes about flexing the ankle as Alain is doing. They all use the angle of the boot to their advantage for controlling their center of mass on the skiis. Many commenters on the video understand this as well, but my takeaway from the comment section is that we mean different things when talking about ankle flexion.
It mostly boils down to that proper contact between shin and tongue comes from having enough forward stance. That center of mass is far enough in front. My claim is that the muscles controlling the ankle length wise, gastrocnemius and tibialis anterior, are not controlling this. Reasons above, and another one of your videos where I left way too many coments about this. Our center of mass is controlled above the boot, not in the stiff boot.
Edit: some of the names were wrongly written, and probably still is.
I was in Taos around 2000 and took the Super Ski week class lead by Alain. (wish that course would come back…just saying). I just transitioned from straight to shaped skis and Alain and his instructors “re-tuned” me to ski properly on them.
I have three fond memories
1. I remember Alain having me follow him down a bump run. I did and I mimic everything he did. I was directly behind him and as he could hear me getting closer, he would continuously speed up until we were mostly skimming the tops. I have never skied that fast on bumps since.
2. I skied Stockli for the first time, bought a pair (the same model Alain was on), and have been with this brand ever since. And at the time I may have been the only skier on Stocki in Minnesota because of the Le Ski Mastery.
3. The Martini Tree 😊
love this series with Alain Veth and your interpretation of it Deb
The bane of my life is students who've decided to go boot buying with a "ski friend" who tells them "good skiers have stiff boots" blocking out a huge range of effective movement. Those student get to do a whole session with their top clips undone. 🙂
tib raises over everything
Thanks again Deb. I like the demonstration at the end showing extension in the belly of the turn and flexion in the transition.
I find if while bending forward in the skiing stance if your fore arms are level like you are holding a tray you are more or less balanced over the mid section of your skis. But I'm just an intermediate beginner, so what do I know.
He is so hard to understand. Yours are so much better and easier to understand!!
I see many Stöckli skis: great choice.
a word describes stance and balance... Counterbary. It's a big funny sounding word deep in the physics of general relativity and local frame of reference. Professionals should understand the importance of knowing this as it is a function of nature and every thing we do is governed by it. Lacking knowledge of actuality is no excuse for not knowing this.
Ha!! Thanks
Thanks! Deb, always good content. I’m starting my 5 year old grandson skiing this winter. Skied all through the PNW for 60 years. Come on out to Mt Bachelor, we’d love to see you here.
Thank you for the super thanks😉
Thank you Deb. Come visit Mt Bachelor. I’ll bet you raced here as a junior?
Yes I did. DH, the waterfall
Excellent tips here. So many beginners look rigid because they hold the position they’ve been taught religiously in all situations rather than think of it as a “zone” to operate in. When you initiate a turn, those angles open up, then fold down again as you drive through the turn. When you’re on a steep gradient, the stance moves forward to maintain the balance. And although the ankle is flexed so the shin is braced against the front of the boot, the pressure is straight down onto the ski, encouraging it to flex and allow the edges to bite throughout the length of the ski. Of course this relates to alpine downhill skiing on piste. Off piste in deep powder is another story (you angle further back to avoid burying your tips!)
Thanks for commenting
Big mittens!
Thanks!
Deb, perhaps you can have Alain explain his negative comment about railroad tracks. Does he not like the name for the drill or just not like the drill itself? Thanks. //Marshall
The name
@@DebArmstrongSkiStrong Thanks for the response.
Any chance you can talk about how to overcome the fear of going too fast, especially on steeper terrain?
Gain turning skills. Got to turn😉
@@DebArmstrongSkiStrong thanx for the quick reply! Cheers.
Does Alain work at Taos?
Yep. Technical director of the ski school
Deb, He mentioned dorsiflexion of the foot. Hmm? Stand on your feet. Push your knee forward. This movement closes (flexes) the ankle joint. The Tibalis Anterior is not dorsiflexing the foot.
Dorsiflexion at the ankle joint.
@@DebArmstrongSkiStrong Love these discussions. Dr. Steinberg is correct that the tibialis anterior is not flexing the boot. But you are also correct that the ankle joint is closing which is typically called dorsiflexion. Now, think of the image of squatting that Alain uses. When we squat, the ankle dorsiflexes (closes) but most of the effort to control the loading are the muscles used to plantar flex in the eccentric realm. Have to love this sport.
@@dondaigle9646,
Yes and no. We refer to movements of the foot as dorsiflexion, plantarflexion, inversion, and eversion.
When someone uses the term dorsiflexion to describe the movement of the leg over the foot, it is not a correct description.
The confusion arises because dorsiflexion of the foot closes the ankle, as does the forward movement of the leg over the foot. These are two separate movements. We should focus on the body parts that move.
@@dr.r.s.steinberg9347 Thank you for your clarification. You put it much better than I did. Totally agree about the leg moving over the foot. What then should we call the "closing" of the ankle joint with the leg moving forward if not dorsiflexion? There must be a more accurate term. And would this only lead to more confusion? I really enjoy this exchange. BTW, Merry Christmas.
@@dondaigle9646, We can call the movement of the leg over the foot (the foot is not moving) closing the ankle joint. Let go of the word "dorsiflexion." Using the word is as bad as bootfitters using the phrase "sixth toe" to describe the laterally protruding head of the fifth metatarsal.
"Visit both!"
Visit both what?
4:35, great way of referring to moving fore and aft.
Hello and first of all thank you for the efort you are puting to make these videos, i always have something new to tryout on the slopes, just a quick question if you dont mind, have you ever returned to Sarajevo and ski again there ? All the best wishes from Slovenia
Hello. Thank you for the comment.
Yes, I have been back to Sarajevo. A few years after the war. I love Sarajevo. I want to visit again.
Thank you