As a dutch person (24) from flevoland, I am often laughed at for my english R. In this region we call "de polder" they use the french R. And in most region they use the french one. Alot of young people devloped the english R. But not all young people developed that R. So I started to avoid words with the letter R, which is damn hard to do. And then I found this briljant video. If they start laughing at me again, I will show them this. Dankjewel voor deze video!!! Groetjes
You forgot to mention that you should never use the 'English' R at the beginning of a word. Even people who use the English R (like from "'t Gooi") in Dutch never do that because it would sound like you would be speaking with an English accent.
Exactly - this is what I have just meant with my comment above. The video fails to mention it, but even if you use the american r at certain parts of words or in certain cases, you still need to use at leat one more type, right? to be honest, I have heard dutch a lot, mostly from videos, but I don't think I've heard any dutch really using just one type of R for all R occurences. :S
Dankjewel, Bart! I've been stressing with my incapability to make a decent French-R, and I would've never imagined that my native "Spanish-R" (I am actually from Italy) would be the best option! I am fairly fluent in English, but I noticed that the main Rs used are usually the French and the Spanish ones, while the English one tends to be pronounced only in certain cases, like an enclosed R in the middle of the word or at the very end - I didn't really keep track of the presence or absence or vowels or anything, I just noticed the English-R is like a "shorter" sound, almost unnoticeable at times (and I've been painfully noticing every R because I keep failing at trying to turn them into French-Rs...) I thought it was mainly about the etymology of each word, and from what neighbor language was it imported, or shaped from, in the past. That is the biggest problem with internet-found lessons; I do not know any Dutch person well enough to determine if they have some accent, I just hear words pronounced differently everytime (by different speakers, none of them in person in front of me), so this video is very useful because I couldn't understand if there even was a "basic" Dutch, a "true correct Dutch, and everything else is just regionalism and accent".
I'm kind of the exact flip :'p My native language is Polish, which uses that same front rolling R. I have literally never been able to do that rolling R, also when learning Spanish for some years :'p Meanwhile, despitenever knowing the language, a French friend has noted that somehow I sound more French than them when doint the R in the back of the throat. For no good reason have always been good at that one even to the point of differentiating between a more frontwards and more backwards French R (probably not in listening though).
I'm half Asian and I find it absolutely impossible to roll my tongue. Thank you for the tip!! ^^ If I can't roll my tongue, I can at least feel confident that people will understand me if I cut the English pronunciation short.
Lately I've been listening carefully to the tv-news, to Dutch songs from the fifties/sixties and to Dutch people in the bus/train, all over Utrecht, South and North Holland (the 'Randstad'). And I think that the 'English' R, after a vowel, and the Spanish R, before a vowel, are taking over completely, especially amongst people born after ±1957. Before a vowel you will still hear some people using the French R, but even they usually make the R's after a vowel very soft (like in English). I'd say that if you want to sound really (modern) Dutch, pronounce all your R's after a vowel in an English way and before a vowel in the Spanish way.
What is a "soft" R after a vowel in the English way? You obviously mean "drop the R completely" because that is what Englishmen do after vowels: the R is not pronounced at all in the non-rotic areas in the UK.
This is such a relief, I have a Boston Accent and we drop our "R"s almost entirely and substitute them with "AH cA or UH" sounds. Like "Harvard Yard" is "Hahvahd Yahd" "More Water" is "Moah Watah" "ever' is "evuh". I've studied Russian and Spanish before and the rolling R is simply impossible for my mouth to mimic, I think I'll be fine doing a standard English R though. Thanks for the clarification!
Goeiedag Bart! Groeten uit Brazilië! I'd dare to say that there is two instances about this issue: FIRST: the scholars call this 3 dutch r's Alveolar trill(Spanish R, "rolled"), Alveolar approximant(English R, mostly R-colored vowels, specially in Hollandic(Hollands)) and (Look up!) Voiced uvular fricative(French R or, in many cases, German R). In Portuguese(My mother language), We mostly use the so-called Alveolar flap(You dutch people pronounce it when you say: Peru), and in Brazilian Portuguese of our countryside(Called "Caipira") and here in São Paulo we use the "English R"(In Caipira portuguese, It's pronounced most backier in mouth than dutch). In Southern Brazil, for German-Italian influence, they use the "rolled" Spanish R). SECOND: As you said, the R pronouce changes from each region and dutch dialect - In Haags they use French R, and in Amsterdan the English R(If I'm not wrong). In Nedersaksisch, they use, as in German, the debbucalised R(the last R is pronounce as an closed A, like in the Dutch word "letter" in some dialects, or in Portugues âmbito. Wow, what an explanation! I think we can change ideas! I like your videos a lot, specially the "Studio studeo" series(by the way). Zo klaar! Dank je wel een, als ik zeg, "een kus(niet voor je) en een kaas". Saluukes!
hahaha that's true it's really soooooo difficult to pronounce the 'r' for Chinese people. I tried my best to pronounce it in a French way but it still sounds different from what Dutch people do. Thanks for the nice explanation!
While this is mostly correct, as a native speaker who only uses the French R in speech, I would never switch it out for another R when spelling out a word. In fact it would feel like I was mocking those accents if I did because it's completely unnatural for me to use any other R. The reason why people with an English R would change it into a Spanish one is that the vast majority of speakers with an English R actually use a combination of the English and Spanish/French R. As someone else in the comments mentioned, you barely ever hear someone start a word with the English R. Thus when spelling out a word it would be completely normal to use the Spanish R even though you might not use it in that position otherwise. That does not mean it's incorrect. Stating that any of these R's is more correct than another is kind of insulting, because it is entirely up to personal preference. That said I guess there is technically an incorrect way of /using/ them, but the only combination I can think of that isn't used in any native accent is starting with an English R and ending with a different one, and I suppose only using the English R has fallen out of use (but trailing with it is still perfectly fine). So as long as you're consistent in your use you can safely use any other combination of R's.
Whereas you may not be able to decide the correctness of any of these Rs, you can most definitely decide which R is most authentic. That is the R pronounced with the tip of the tongue like the R in Spanish/Italian. This R may have lost its popularity, but two centuries ago it was nearly the only Dutch R in existence. Until the late 20th century, it was still the most common R among speakers of Dutch. All of North Brabant used to use it in the early 20th century. Likely all of Limburg a century earlier (places like Stein retained it much longer). The throat R nevertheless spread like wildfire due to which the original one has nearly died out. The reason it became a preference is because a lot of locals decided it to be an accurate pronunciation of the R. The different R pronunciations are as different as the T and the K.
Native here. While most of this video is correct, I'm gonna have to heavily disagree with you on the part where you said that Dutch people use the Spanish R when spelling out or repeating a word. The people doing this most likely already use the Spanish R, because I personally couldn't pronounce the Spanish R if I tried. I would say Pieter with the English R regardless of the situation. I speak with the English R *only* after vowels, otherwise I would use the French R. The letter itself, for example when spelling, I would pronounce like how you pronounce "air" in American English. I live in the Randstad area and I'd say this way of pronunciation is really standard here. Regardless, the Spanish, English and French pronunciations are all correct.
I noticed that they actually mix them. The R at the end is pronouced the "English" way, but at the beginning of the word of after consonants it's usually "French". (For example, I just watched an interview with composer Rogier van Otterloo, and he mixes them too th-cam.com/video/HgXLmgY9U8w/w-d-xo.html) Myself I prefer the "Spanish" R, even though I can easily pronouce all of them.
This is immensely helpful. I was being confused by all the different pronunciations of [r] across textbooks. I guess I'll stick to the French [r]. Bedankt!!
Excellent video! Thank you very much! However, I read somewhere that the English R only happens at the middle and at the end of a word, never at the beginning. Is that right?
indeed the english r you will hear not so prominent at the beginning of a word... it depends a bit on the person... some do also pronounce like english, but others may have rolling r in beginning and english on the end, for example word "raar"
learndutch.org Thank you! I just read on a forum that the Dutch ''imported'' the French R from France to try to sound more ''chic''. Have you heard about that?
What about places like Amsterdam? Are the Rs typically rolled there? I remember watching an interview with Katja Herbers and I think she used the Gooise R despite being from Amsterdam (I might be wrong).
This was really helpful, thanks! I'm Swedish and in my region we tend to skip the "r" completely... (Småland) But the "r":s that I do pronouns are rolling so it feels good to know that I can keep them. ^^
+Emelie Wilhelmsson I know Danish and the Swedish that I hear often used the retroflex ("American") r. Is Smålandsk closer to Skånsk og therefore closer to Danish? In Danish the throat r is used and left out at the end of words/syllables like in (Standard) German.
Ik heb een belangrijke opmerking, denk ik. Ik heb gemerkt dat ook mensen die R als rollende R uispreken, die letter toch als een Engelse R uitspreken als die aan het einde van een woord staat (meer/beer/pier/dier)
Ja voor mijn gevoel zijn in Nederland twee basis manieren waarop mensen praten. Een combinatie tussen de Franse R en de Engelse R, of een combinatie tussen de Spaanse R en de Engelse R. Voor mijn gevoel zijn er bijna geen mensen die bijvoorbeeld bij het woord “meer” de Spaanse R gebruiken
That's a surprise to me! Consider the word "onredelijk." I swallow my R, so that it's somewhere between an English and a French R (I'm an American, emigrated from Nederland as a small child).
@@footfault gast da is letterlijk op 2 verschillende plaatsen in de mond, ge kunt ze niet allebij doen tegelijk. Ge kunt een Franse r nie inslikken in tegenstelling tot een gooische r. Franse heeft een soort van gorgelend geluid in de keel.
My husband from Amsterdam pronounces the r rolling but further back from the tip of his tongue. I have a hard time imitating it, and even his relatives have said he's doing it wrong, but it sounds like there's no standard.
I use the French R and you can definitely hear a difference. Also, if I say “ik ben aan het schrijven” and it sounds like “schijven” for whatever reason, people would be able to know that I’m saying “schrijven” because of the context. Same thing with “bank”. “Bank” means to different things: a bench and just a bank 🏦. If I say “ik ga op een bank zitten” everybody would know that I’m going to sit on a bench and not a bank because of the context I’m using the word in
my intention looking this up was actually to find out the difference: Meaning -when- to pronounce which, but I guess I figured out the pattern. So it's always a rolling R at the beginning of a word the middle has the uvula R (like German has) and words basically end with the (throat?) R which English (or Albanian, not using it as an R?) e.g. has Correct me if I'm wrong, though. Some claim there were more than those basic 3 ways to pronounce an R, so I can imagine this could occur as well, since Turkish (and Kurdish?) seems to have a mixture of the UK and the rolled R.. it's somewhere inbetween or it's an appendix of each other.
I have a habit of using the French r at the beginning of words, the English r in the middle and the finnish r (you could call it Spanish if you want to, but I dont speak much spanish. It's almost more of a tap like the Scottish) at the end. Is this wrong? Should I cut out the finnish one? I like my French rs so Ill be sticking to that at the beginning lol
This is almost so helpful for me but I'm aiming to speak near to the regional accent of the south - Brabant specifically- and they use very very back of the throat sounds, especially for r and I can't for the life of me figure out how to do it! I'm great at Spanish and English r but can't do the French. Anyone who can help?
+Sara Anderson This is another problem, in my opinion, with used the throat r, because it can be hard to distinguish from hard g. This makes words like "gras" sound like "gas".
The historically original pronunciation is an alveolar trill [r], with the alveolar tap [ɾ] as a common allophone. Source: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_phonology Bart, you are right. Rolled r was the original and correct Dutch r according to Algemeen Beschaafd Nederlands. The same happens to German. Only rolled r was allowed in speaking German with "die deutsche Bühnenaussprache" by Siebs. The French r was allowed to be used in stage pronunciation after 1957. Three acceptable realizations of /r/Edit Until 1957, only two pronunciations were allowed: an alveolar trill [r] and an alveolar tap [ɾ]. After 1957, a uvular trill [ʀ] was also allowed. A voiced uvular fricative [ʁ], used extensively in contemporary Standard German, is not allowed. Therefore, rot ('red') can be pronounced [roːt], [ɾoːt] and [ʀoːt] but not [ʁoːt].[3] Source: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%BChnendeutsch
Regarding [ʁ] this is no longer true. It is one of the fully acceptable variations of a German R sound, and you hear it in all sorts of TV shows and movies.
@@fred-283Long time ago, Dutch-speaking areas and German-speaking areas were considered to be one. About four centuries ago, in English, we called these languages "Low Dutch" and "High Dutch" respectively. Initially, Dutch and German speakers pronounced the letter 'r' as an alveolar trill [r]. After World War II, however, they started to use a French-r in speaking Dutch and German. When pronouncing r's at the end of words and before consonants, the Dutch use an American-r meanwhile the Germans use a vocalized 'r' just like British Received Pronunciation as in father, cared, etc.
@@fred-283To my Indonesian ears, [ɣ] and [ʁ] are heard alike. Take "eieren" and "eigen". The former could be pronounced [ˈɛɪəʁən]. The latter could be pronounced [ˈɛɪɣən], instead of using the other forms of pronunciation [ˈɛɪərən] and [ˈɛɪxən] respectively.
I am taking the Duolingo course of Dutch, in that, the word “broek” (pants) sounds much like “boek” (book). I almost always mistake the two if the context is ambiguous. How is that “R” in the word “broek”?
So all this time i've been pronouncing the r correctly? my dutch friends has a lot to answer to.(or most probably they have some superiority complex since i'm from Indonesia and colony and all that blah blah blah)
My language R is kinda similar to Bart's personal R so it's kinda easy 😆 hardest characters are w, v, and f according to me. Some people in my country also use French's R and English's R. I use both but people with French's R usually got mocked at so I switched my R according to the people
Mandarin Chinese actually has a retroflex R that is similar to English. See 二 or the (in)famous Beijing 儿话, so I don't think Northern speakers of Chinese would have the "l" sounding r problem.
Yes actually! In the city of Leiden they actually do this! I'm from a town very close to it and have some family in Leiden, they all did that but the younger generation doesn't do it as much. In my accent I roll the R at the beginning of words, but use the English R everywhere else.
I'm between the Spanish and the English which I feel like sounds good. Can you do one on the G? I pronounce my G really hard because it sounds cooler but I also know there's a soft G (spoken in Southern Netherlands?) and I just wanna make sure my G is on point.
I am often asked if I come from thr sourh becaude I don't speak with a hard G that is expected apparently from where I live. I dont have the Amsterdam G either. I go somewhere in between. I personally don't like the hard G sounds. It's the one people often use to describe how they hear Dutch. All they can say is the hard Ggggg in about 95% of the answers.
Very good video since I was flooded with doubts after some lessons where they all pronounced the R different. I speak Spanish so I will definitely stay with the spanish R and secondarily a French R.
I don´t know if still someone will answer, but in case: I noticed that some dutch people tend to pronounce the "r" in two different ways, depending on its position in the word. For example, i heard words like voor, haar oder moeder with the english "r", but words like root, rijp or groot were pronounced in the french way. So the first r in the word broer would be pronounced french, the second one english. But i am german and cannot know this of course, so should i stick to these "pronounciation rules" or is it wrong?
The pronunciation you are talking about is the "Gooise R"-pronunciation, which has spread during the last few decades. If you plan to use the "English R" in Dutch, you should stick to those rules. If you're German, I suggest you just use the "throat R" (French R) as it is used in France and much of Germany. I use it as well. Of course you could use the "tongue point R" (Spanish R) if you prefer the sound of it.
I am currently learning Dutch. Rolling r comes naturally for me as I am Indonesian. But learning to pronounce french r would give me versatility as it's used in many other languages... I am a bit confused too, I was in Amsterdam for a week and I guess I heard a softer version of french r more than rolling r, is rolling r really more common there? Or is it only because I wasn't paying attention enough 😂
It used to be more common there. The rolling "R" is part of the dialect of Amsterdam, but is nowadays less prevalent. This doesn't mean you shouldn't use the rolling R in Dutch.
The rolling R. As for Belgium, this is of course only true for speakers of Dutch. However, in the east of Dutch-speaking Belgium (Neerpelt, Genk, Hasselt, Tongeren and Voeren to give an indication) you should expect a throat R. This is also true for some scattered towns/cities more to the west (e.g. Ronse).
as a kid I only knew how to say the Spanish R, but now I think which one I use just depends on the word haha I kind of disagree with the point that people always spell things out with a rolling R though, I don't do that and I think some people I know don't do that either (though it's not like I really paid attention)
I often see people who use the french R or spanish R also use the english R. is it possible to speak entirely with one R? asking as a finnish-german-english speaker so i can do all 3 :P
my theory: the "English" R is the unfinished "Spanish" R. even a single flap of the tongue is not achieved. and the fact that the English R occurs only at word-end, is a proof of that because that's where sound reduction happens the most.
This is very interesting. I have a question. I will guess that the News casters on television will speak with a "general accent". Which "R" will one commonly hear on the news? Specifically, the NATIONAL news in Netherlands?
Rolling r or english r, definitely not french. Because most of the studios are in the 'english r' region, a lot of people on television talk with that r
Thanks! Good to know the "French" R is OK. I don't think I heard anything but the rolling R in Amsterdam. I don't have a problem rolling my R, I just usually forget in Dutch! I think it's because I somehow associate rolling R so closely with Romance languages that it doesn't sound natural in a Germanic language.
Ron Stack That remains to be seen. In Swedish and in most parts of Norway one uses the front-R. Also, The front R was the original and only prononciation used by our forefathers.
Interesting. I don't think I've heard much Swedish or Norwegian spoken so I didn't know that. I do speak a little Italian so I'm used to a front "r" - anything from a flap to a roll, depending on how much wine has been served :)
Ron Stack quite interesting, indeed. Untill before the renaissance almost all languages across the globe used the front R, but with French dominance exerting its influence to other parts in Europe that changed.
The fact that someone stress the letter R does not mean is the correct one, but simply the person is aware that the R cannot be identified so he accentuates it in a way that is not possible to mistake it. quite simple. Also the English in their spelling stress letters but when they speak the word in a correct way the stress disappears, as it should.
Honestly? This video got me more confused than ever before... I mean I'm aware there is a huge variety of ways to pronounce r in dutch, but I thought you need to use at least 2 ways to stick to a certan dutch accent which is native like? For instance words like bart or waar - I think people from the same region would say it for example like the american r, but if they were to say the word spraak or prachtig, they would still then use more the french r. Or am I now totally confused? I thought whatever region you want to stick to, you still need to always use at least 2 types of r?? And I believe there are still slightly multiple different sounding options of r for each of the 3 mentioned main types of r?? Can somebody please help me on this one?
You only need one type of R to speak fluent Dutch. The use of two types of R's (specifically "French" at the start of a word and "American at the end) only became common during the late 20th century and was caused by the media. The R's in my personal pronunciation are also not different from one another. The two R's of "raar" are identical. Natively, I use a "guttural R" similar to the "French R", but I also often use a "rolling R" (as in Spanish/Italian). I never use both in the same sentence.
Your opinion that the correct pronunciation of the R should be rolled or trilled is not wrong, but rather harkens back to Old Dutch and Low Franconian, when the R would indeed have been pronounced that way along with the other Germanic languages, going all the way back to Proto-Germanic. Nonetheless, we know language changes overtime.
THE LETTER "W" IS PRONOUNCED LIKE IN ENGLISH "Whisky" OR LIKE IN GERMAN "WELT"...? HOW IS IT PRONOUNCED AT BEGINNING OF A WORD...IN THE MIDDLE OF A WORD OR AT THE END OF A WORD...?
Someone correct me, if I am wrong, but the Dutch "w" is exactly the same as the German "w" spoken by many Germans, if not the majority. If a "w" occurs as part of a diphthong ("nieuwe") there is no "w" sound, but a non-syllabic "u" sound closer to English "w" but not the same.
+JCS In het zuiden gebruiken we meestal de gerolde/spaanse/Russische "r". hoewel in de meeste dialecten hij gewoon getapt wordt, wordt het als "prestigieuzer" gezien als men hem stevig laat door rollen. Een overblijfseltje van de taalstrijd.
I am asian and I just can't roll my tongue so i guess i have to choose the french way since i have been learning french for years now, the english one is easy but it sounds a little bit less dutch for me after all, rolled R is just so cool and fun i wish i can handle it some day
Beste Bart, Ik belandde hier omdat een vriendin van mij Nederlands wil leren - en omdat de website geen feedbackmogelijkheden biedt. Geweldig wat je gedaan hebt - supertoegankelijk, systematisch en helder. Maar waar het gaat over je verhaal over de r ben ik het niet met je eens. De 'huig-r' (die ik dus heb meegekregen en die jij kennelijk niet eens kunt uitspreken) is wel degelijk een rollende r, en geen Franse brauw-r (g) of Engelse Gooi-r (huh). De 'Spaanse' tongpunt-r heb ik pas op mijn twintigste geleerd, en mijn moeder kan die, anders dan mijn vader, met de beste wil wil van de wereld niet over haar tong krijgen, zelfs als ze 'Pieterrrr' zou willen zeggen - maar haar r is geen 'g' od 'huh'. Dus ik heb het gevoel dat je in dit opzicht iets gemist hebt. Verder: chapeau, dank! Ga zo door! Frits
As a dutch person (24) from flevoland, I am often laughed at for my english R. In this region we call "de polder" they use the french R. And in most region they use the french one. Alot of young people devloped the english R. But not all young people developed that R. So I started to avoid words with the letter R, which is damn hard to do.
And then I found this briljant video. If they start laughing at me again, I will show them this.
Dankjewel voor deze video!!!
Groetjes
You forgot to mention that you should never use the 'English' R at the beginning of a word. Even people who use the English R (like from "'t Gooi") in Dutch never do that because it would sound like you would be speaking with an English accent.
Barrie Stevens comes to mind
lol sorry for being that late but how do they pronounce it then? :)
Exactly - this is what I have just meant with my comment above. The video fails to mention it, but even if you use the american r at certain parts of words or in certain cases, you still need to use at leat one more type, right? to be honest, I have heard dutch a lot, mostly from videos, but I don't think I've heard any dutch really using just one type of R for all R occurences. :S
Except in Leiden.
*at the beginning of a syllabe
It's the most informative explanation video on dutch R amongst the ones I have seen so far. Dank je wel Baart! :)
I am Spanish native speaker n I just begin to learn Dutch. I found lesson very useful. I enjoy your English very much. Dank je wel !
Dankjewel, Bart! I've been stressing with my incapability to make a decent French-R, and I would've never imagined that my native "Spanish-R" (I am actually from Italy) would be the best option! I am fairly fluent in English, but I noticed that the main Rs used are usually the French and the Spanish ones, while the English one tends to be pronounced only in certain cases, like an enclosed R in the middle of the word or at the very end - I didn't really keep track of the presence or absence or vowels or anything, I just noticed the English-R is like a "shorter" sound, almost unnoticeable at times (and I've been painfully noticing every R because I keep failing at trying to turn them into French-Rs...)
I thought it was mainly about the etymology of each word, and from what neighbor language was it imported, or shaped from, in the past. That is the biggest problem with internet-found lessons; I do not know any Dutch person well enough to determine if they have some accent, I just hear words pronounced differently everytime (by different speakers, none of them in person in front of me), so this video is very useful because I couldn't understand if there even was a "basic" Dutch, a "true correct Dutch, and everything else is just regionalism and accent".
I'm kind of the exact flip :'p
My native language is Polish, which uses that same front rolling R. I have literally never been able to do that rolling R, also when learning Spanish for some years :'p
Meanwhile, despitenever knowing the language, a French friend has noted that somehow I sound more French than them when doint the R in the back of the throat. For no good reason have always been good at that one even to the point of differentiating between a more frontwards and more backwards French R (probably not in listening though).
I'm half Asian and I find it absolutely impossible to roll my tongue. Thank you for the tip!! ^^ If I can't roll my tongue, I can at least feel confident that people will understand me if I cut the English pronunciation short.
add apublic
I am capable of doing all three r sounds. To make things simpler, can I just use the Spanish r at all times and just disregard all other r sounds?
+Catherine Baril yes, that's the best one!
Please do! I'm so saddened by the ubiquitous encroachment of the retroflex r that at least new Dutch speakers could learn it the best way!
+DutchScape At least someone who thinks the right way.
De groeten uit Vlaanderen, vriend.
There are 4 Rs, there is also a rolling R in the throat
Exactly what I was going to say
Right, cuz I pronounce is more like french people
@@TopNederlands1 like german?
Just wanted to reply that... Thank you for doing so.
If you're gonna teach, do it correctly... And complete.
@@miaumiau8918 I think they might be talking about the voiced uvular trill
Lately I've been listening carefully to the tv-news, to Dutch songs from the fifties/sixties and to Dutch people in the bus/train, all over Utrecht, South and North Holland (the 'Randstad'). And I think that the 'English' R, after a vowel, and the Spanish R, before a vowel, are taking over completely, especially amongst people born after ±1957. Before a vowel you will still hear some people using the French R, but even they usually make the R's after a vowel very soft (like in English). I'd say that if you want to sound really (modern) Dutch, pronounce all your R's after a vowel in an English way and before a vowel in the Spanish way.
What is a "soft" R after a vowel in the English way? You obviously mean "drop the R completely" because that is what Englishmen do after vowels: the R is not pronounced at all in the non-rotic areas in the UK.
This is such a relief, I have a Boston Accent and we drop our "R"s almost entirely and substitute them with "AH cA or UH" sounds. Like "Harvard Yard" is "Hahvahd Yahd" "More Water" is "Moah Watah" "ever' is "evuh". I've studied Russian and Spanish before and the rolling R is simply impossible for my mouth to mimic, I think I'll be fine doing a standard English R though. Thanks for the clarification!
Goeiedag Bart!
Groeten uit Brazilië!
I'd dare to say that there is two instances about this issue: FIRST: the scholars call this 3 dutch r's Alveolar trill(Spanish R, "rolled"), Alveolar approximant(English R, mostly R-colored vowels, specially in Hollandic(Hollands)) and (Look up!) Voiced uvular fricative(French R or, in many cases, German R). In Portuguese(My mother language), We mostly use the so-called Alveolar flap(You dutch people pronounce it when you say: Peru), and in Brazilian Portuguese of our countryside(Called "Caipira") and here in São Paulo we use the "English R"(In Caipira portuguese, It's pronounced most backier in mouth than dutch). In Southern Brazil, for German-Italian influence, they use the "rolled" Spanish R). SECOND: As you said, the R pronouce changes from each region and dutch dialect - In Haags they use French R, and in Amsterdan the English R(If I'm not wrong). In Nedersaksisch, they use, as in German, the debbucalised R(the last R is pronounce as an closed A, like in the Dutch word "letter" in some dialects, or in Portugues âmbito.
Wow, what an explanation! I think we can change ideas!
I like your videos a lot, specially the "Studio studeo" series(by the way).
Zo klaar!
Dank je wel een, als ik zeg, "een kus(niet voor je) en een kaas". Saluukes!
The Amsterdam locals probably use the Spanish (loud) R
hahaha that's true it's really soooooo difficult to pronounce the 'r' for Chinese people. I tried my best to pronounce it in a French way but it still sounds different from what Dutch people do. Thanks for the nice explanation!
You do have the English "r" as 儿 no? F ex 儿子
Nice to see phonetics properly covered. It's far too often ignored in foreign language teaching.
Thankfully I speak native french and English. Thanks for the informative vid, can't wait to keep learning Dutch!
My pronunciation includes both French/German R and English R.
While this is mostly correct, as a native speaker who only uses the French R in speech, I would never switch it out for another R when spelling out a word. In fact it would feel like I was mocking those accents if I did because it's completely unnatural for me to use any other R. The reason why people with an English R would change it into a Spanish one is that the vast majority of speakers with an English R actually use a combination of the English and Spanish/French R. As someone else in the comments mentioned, you barely ever hear someone start a word with the English R. Thus when spelling out a word it would be completely normal to use the Spanish R even though you might not use it in that position otherwise. That does not mean it's incorrect. Stating that any of these R's is more correct than another is kind of insulting, because it is entirely up to personal preference. That said I guess there is technically an incorrect way of /using/ them, but the only combination I can think of that isn't used in any native accent is starting with an English R and ending with a different one, and I suppose only using the English R has fallen out of use (but trailing with it is still perfectly fine). So as long as you're consistent in your use you can safely use any other combination of R's.
Whereas you may not be able to decide the correctness of any of these Rs, you can most definitely decide which R is most authentic. That is the R pronounced with the tip of the tongue like the R in Spanish/Italian. This R may have lost its popularity, but two centuries ago it was nearly the only Dutch R in existence. Until the late 20th century, it was still the most common R among speakers of Dutch. All of North Brabant used to use it in the early 20th century. Likely all of Limburg a century earlier (places like Stein retained it much longer). The throat R nevertheless spread like wildfire due to which the original one has nearly died out. The reason it became a preference is because a lot of locals decided it to be an accurate pronunciation of the R. The different R pronunciations are as different as the T and the K.
Awesome and easy explanation! Thanks a lot!
Native here. While most of this video is correct, I'm gonna have to heavily disagree with you on the part where you said that Dutch people use the Spanish R when spelling out or repeating a word. The people doing this most likely already use the Spanish R, because I personally couldn't pronounce the Spanish R if I tried. I would say Pieter with the English R regardless of the situation.
I speak with the English R *only* after vowels, otherwise I would use the French R. The letter itself, for example when spelling, I would pronounce like how you pronounce "air" in American English. I live in the Randstad area and I'd say this way of pronunciation is really standard here. Regardless, the Spanish, English and French pronunciations are all correct.
5:23 standard chinese has an “r” sound close to how some americans pronounce the letter (english r with tongue rolled really back) but nice video tho
The Chinese people can pronounce American-r perfectly. Take 0022 [liŋ liŋ əɹ əɹ].
Super leuk filmpje. Was met mijn zoontje hiernaar kijken. SUPER leuke uitleg!!!
I noticed that they actually mix them. The R at the end is pronouced the "English" way, but at the beginning of the word of after consonants it's usually "French". (For example, I just watched an interview with composer Rogier van Otterloo, and he mixes them too th-cam.com/video/HgXLmgY9U8w/w-d-xo.html) Myself I prefer the "Spanish" R, even though I can easily pronouce all of them.
This is immensely helpful. I was being confused by all the different pronunciations of [r] across textbooks. I guess I'll stick to the French [r]. Bedankt!!
I am french but i like the three R ;) I think it's better for me to keep the french R, bedankt voor de les ! :)
I loved this video, it showed all my concern!!! Bedankt voor je video!!! Now I'm motivated to start learning Dutch again.
in the song tijgers & draken the same guy uses the rolling R with both the tongue and the uvular
Excellent video! Thank you very much!
However, I read somewhere that the English R only happens at the middle and at the end of a word, never at the beginning. Is that right?
indeed the english r you will hear not so prominent at the beginning of a word... it depends a bit on the person... some do also pronounce like english, but others may have rolling r in beginning and english on the end, for example word "raar"
learndutch.org Thank you!
I just read on a forum that the Dutch ''imported'' the French R from France to try to sound more ''chic''. Have you heard about that?
What about places like Amsterdam? Are the Rs typically rolled there? I remember watching an interview with Katja Herbers and I think she used the Gooise R despite being from Amsterdam (I might be wrong).
It really helped me ! thank you
Is it legal if I roll the R in the back (uvular trill)?
Is it also legal if I sometimes roll the G the same way, but unvoiced?
For the first one, yes. Actually it’s more rolled than the French r sometimes. For the second question I would say no, it’s not normal to roll the g.
thank you so much!!!!!! I have been struggling with this one!
This was really helpful, thanks! I'm Swedish and in my region we tend to skip the "r" completely... (Småland) But the "r":s that I do pronouns are rolling so it feels good to know that I can keep them. ^^
+Emelie Wilhelmsson I know Danish and the Swedish that I hear often used the retroflex ("American") r. Is Smålandsk closer to Skånsk og therefore closer to Danish? In Danish the throat r is used and left out at the end of words/syllables like in (Standard) German.
Ik heb een belangrijke opmerking, denk ik. Ik heb gemerkt dat ook mensen die R als rollende R uispreken, die letter toch als een Engelse R uitspreken als die aan het einde van een woord staat (meer/beer/pier/dier)
Ja voor mijn gevoel zijn in Nederland twee basis manieren waarop mensen praten. Een combinatie tussen de Franse R en de Engelse R, of een combinatie tussen de Spaanse R en de Engelse R. Voor mijn gevoel zijn er bijna geen mensen die bijvoorbeeld bij het woord “meer” de Spaanse R gebruiken
The correct one is the rolling r. Indonesian R also rolling. The Indonesian alphabet is based on dutch alphabet, because of colonisation
I use the Spanish R all the time!
Even though I’m an Asian and the Spanish R is significantly difficult for us to pronounce.
English or 'gooise' R does not occur before vowels in Dutch!
That's a surprise to me! Consider the word "onredelijk." I swallow my R, so that it's somewhere between an English and a French R (I'm an American, emigrated from Nederland as a small child).
@@footfault you cant do something in between a french and swallowing r lmao. You dont swallow french/guttural r either.
@@thomasschulz8477 Spijt me zeer, maar zo zit het heus.
@@footfault gast da is letterlijk op 2 verschillende plaatsen in de mond, ge kunt ze niet allebij doen tegelijk. Ge kunt een Franse r nie inslikken in tegenstelling tot een gooische r. Franse heeft een soort van gorgelend geluid in de keel.
so there are 3Rs?
but I think there are 4Rs
reduce, reuse, recycle and replace
My husband from Amsterdam pronounces the r rolling but further back from the tip of his tongue. I have a hard time imitating it, and even his relatives have said he's doing it wrong, but it sounds like there's no standard.
Thank you for your lessons. Thanks for you it is not difficult to learn Dutch language.
Very useful. Love it!
I prefer the tongue-tip R. How else would you distinguish between words such as "schrijven" and "schijven"? Nearly impossible, right?
I use the French R and you can definitely hear a difference. Also, if I say “ik ben aan het schrijven” and it sounds like “schijven” for whatever reason, people would be able to know that I’m saying “schrijven” because of the context. Same thing with “bank”. “Bank” means to different things: a bench and just a bank 🏦. If I say “ik ga op een bank zitten” everybody would know that I’m going to sit on a bench and not a bank because of the context I’m using the word in
This was super helpful. I can't roll my r's, so I'm glad to know all hope isn't lost after all. :P
my intention looking this up was actually to find out the difference:
Meaning -when- to pronounce which, but I guess I figured out the pattern.
So it's always a rolling R at the beginning of a word
the middle has the uvula R (like German has)
and words basically end with the (throat?) R which English (or Albanian, not using it as an R?) e.g. has
Correct me if I'm wrong, though.
Some claim there were more than those basic 3 ways to pronounce an R, so I can imagine this could occur as well, since Turkish (and Kurdish?)
seems to have a mixture of the UK and the rolled R.. it's somewhere inbetween or it's an appendix of each other.
I have a habit of using the French r at the beginning of words, the English r in the middle and the finnish r (you could call it Spanish if you want to, but I dont speak much spanish. It's almost more of a tap like the Scottish) at the end. Is this wrong? Should I cut out the finnish one? I like my French rs so Ill be sticking to that at the beginning lol
This is almost so helpful for me but I'm aiming to speak near to the regional accent of the south - Brabant specifically- and they use very very back of the throat sounds, especially for r and I can't for the life of me figure out how to do it! I'm great at Spanish and English r but can't do the French. Anyone who can help?
Is the third "r" pronounced the same way the Dutch "g" is (or is it fairly close)?
not exactly the same, but indeed fairly close
+Sara Anderson This is another problem, in my opinion, with used the throat r, because it can be hard to distinguish from hard g. This makes words like "gras" sound like "gas".
@@DutchScape
[ɣʁɑs] is impossible for me to pronounce. I have tried it.
[ɣrɑs] is possible to pronounce.😊
@@DutchScape
@DutchScape
[xʁɑs] is possible for me to pronounce, but it is hard.
[xrɑs] is easy to pronounce.😊
I'm French，that's useful to me，dankuwel❤️
The historically original pronunciation is an alveolar trill [r], with the alveolar tap [ɾ] as a common allophone.
Source:
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_phonology
Bart, you are right. Rolled r was the original and correct Dutch r according to Algemeen Beschaafd Nederlands. The same happens to German. Only rolled r was allowed in speaking German with "die deutsche Bühnenaussprache" by Siebs. The French r was allowed to be used in stage pronunciation after 1957.
Three acceptable realizations of /r/Edit
Until 1957, only two pronunciations were allowed: an alveolar trill [r] and an alveolar tap [ɾ]. After 1957, a uvular trill [ʀ] was also allowed. A voiced uvular fricative [ʁ], used extensively in contemporary Standard German, is not allowed. Therefore, rot ('red') can be pronounced [roːt], [ɾoːt] and [ʀoːt] but not [ʁoːt].[3]
Source:
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%BChnendeutsch
Regarding [ʁ] this is no longer true. It is one of the fully acceptable variations of a German R sound, and you hear it in all sorts of TV shows and movies.
@@fred-283Long time ago, Dutch-speaking areas and German-speaking areas were considered to be one. About four centuries ago, in English, we called these languages "Low Dutch" and "High Dutch" respectively. Initially, Dutch and German speakers pronounced the letter 'r' as an alveolar trill [r]. After World War II, however, they started to use a French-r in speaking Dutch and German. When pronouncing r's at the end of words and before consonants, the Dutch use an American-r meanwhile the Germans use a vocalized 'r' just like British Received Pronunciation as in father, cared, etc.
@@fred-283To my Indonesian ears, [ɣ] and [ʁ] are heard alike. Take "eieren" and "eigen". The former could be pronounced [ˈɛɪəʁən]. The latter could be pronounced [ˈɛɪɣən], instead of using the other forms of pronunciation [ˈɛɪərən] and [ˈɛɪxən] respectively.
I am taking the Duolingo course of Dutch, in that, the word “broek” (pants) sounds much like “boek” (book). I almost always mistake the two if the context is ambiguous. How is that “R” in the word “broek”?
So all this time i've been pronouncing the r correctly? my dutch friends has a lot to answer to.(or most probably they have some superiority complex since i'm from Indonesia and colony and all that blah blah blah)
G E K O L O N I S E E R D
My language R is kinda similar to Bart's personal R so it's kinda easy 😆 hardest characters are w, v, and f according to me. Some people in my country also use French's R and English's R. I use both but people with French's R usually got mocked at so I switched my R according to the people
Mandarin Chinese actually has a retroflex R that is similar to English. See 二 or the (in)famous Beijing 儿话, so I don't think Northern speakers of Chinese would have the "l" sounding r problem.
Well, I don't know, maybe it's because I'm from South-Holland, but when I spell my words, I would still use the "English R"...
Ruben van de Put dr
Yep same here, Gelderland.
Perfect explanation!
Is it understandable to pronounce the R in English way if it is at the start of the word? Because it normally would not be pronounced that way
Yes actually! In the city of Leiden they actually do this! I'm from a town very close to it and have some family in Leiden, they all did that but the younger generation doesn't do it as much. In my accent I roll the R at the beginning of words, but use the English R everywhere else.
Why French and not German? To me the sound is closer to Hochdeutsch than it is to standard French.
I'm between the Spanish and the English which I feel like sounds good.
Can you do one on the G? I pronounce my G really hard because it sounds cooler but I also know there's a soft G (spoken in Southern Netherlands?) and I just wanna make sure my G is on point.
Yes, "G" is planned as my next pronunciation video. But this is a difficult one... I am working on it - very probably within 1-2 weeks will be ready.
I am often asked if I come from thr sourh becaude I don't speak with a hard G that is expected apparently from where I live. I dont have the Amsterdam G either. I go somewhere in between. I personally don't like the hard G sounds. It's the one people often use to describe how they hear Dutch. All they can say is the hard Ggggg in about 95% of the answers.
Do you have a video about voiced glottal fricative? ɦ
You forgot about the Twentse R which sounds more like an extension of the preceding vowel or a glottal stop between a vowel and a consonant.
Very good video since I was flooded with doubts after some lessons where they all pronounced the R different. I speak Spanish so I will definitely stay with the spanish R and secondarily a French R.
ik zou het beter vinden als je in het nederlands je lesjes zou doen. Misschien met engelse ondertitelen?
Waarom is dat "beter"? Het is niet voor Nederlanders bedoeld he
Got it, exactly what I was expecting. Thanks man.
I don´t know if still someone will answer, but in case:
I noticed that some dutch people tend to pronounce the "r" in two different ways, depending on its position in the word. For example, i heard words like voor, haar oder moeder with the english "r", but words like root, rijp or groot were pronounced in the french way. So the first r in the word broer would be pronounced french, the second one english. But i am german and cannot know this of course, so should i stick to these "pronounciation rules" or is it wrong?
The pronunciation you are talking about is the "Gooise R"-pronunciation, which has spread during the last few decades. If you plan to use the "English R" in Dutch, you should stick to those rules.
If you're German, I suggest you just use the "throat R" (French R) as it is used in France and much of Germany. I use it as well. Of course you could use the "tongue point R" (Spanish R) if you prefer the sound of it.
I am currently learning Dutch. Rolling r comes naturally for me as I am Indonesian. But learning to pronounce french r would give me versatility as it's used in many other languages... I am a bit confused too, I was in Amsterdam for a week and I guess I heard a softer version of french r more than rolling r, is rolling r really more common there? Or is it only because I wasn't paying attention enough 😂
It used to be more common there. The rolling "R" is part of the dialect of Amsterdam, but is nowadays less prevalent. This doesn't mean you shouldn't use the rolling R in Dutch.
R. V. B. Thanks, I would use rolling r, but I’ll make it short just like what Bart said
Great video! Very interesting :)
Do you know which R is most common in Belgium and Suriname?
The rolling R.
As for Belgium, this is of course only true for speakers of Dutch.
However, in the east of Dutch-speaking Belgium (Neerpelt, Genk, Hasselt, Tongeren and Voeren to give an indication) you should expect a throat R. This is also true for some scattered towns/cities more to the west (e.g. Ronse).
R. V. B. Thanks! :-)
as a kid I only knew how to say the Spanish R, but now I think which one I use just depends on the word haha
I kind of disagree with the point that people always spell things out with a rolling R though, I don't do that and I think some people I know don't do that either (though it's not like I really paid attention)
Thank you very much was very very nice explained and very funny as well :)
Thank you! I feel it very difficult to pronounce the rolling R.....
I often see people who use the french R or spanish R also use the english R. is it possible to speak entirely with one R? asking as a finnish-german-english speaker so i can do all 3 :P
+Jonnemanne if you can do all - do the spanish one!
my theory: the "English" R is the unfinished "Spanish" R. even a single flap of the tongue is not achieved. and the fact that the English R occurs only at word-end, is a proof of that because that's where sound reduction happens the most.
This is very interesting. I have a question. I will guess that the News casters on television will speak with a "general accent". Which "R" will one commonly hear on the news? Specifically, the NATIONAL news in Netherlands?
Rolling r or english r, definitely not french. Because most of the studios are in the 'english r' region, a lot of people on television talk with that r
Thank you so much, Bart!
Thanks! Good to know the "French" R is OK. I don't think I heard anything but the rolling R in Amsterdam.
I don't have a problem rolling my R, I just usually forget in Dutch! I think it's because I somehow associate rolling R so closely with Romance languages that it doesn't sound natural in a Germanic language.
Ron Stack That remains to be seen. In Swedish and in most parts of Norway one uses the front-R. Also, The front R was the original and only prononciation used by our forefathers.
Interesting. I don't think I've heard much Swedish or Norwegian spoken so I didn't know that. I do speak a little Italian so I'm used to a front "r" - anything from a flap to a roll, depending on how much wine has been served :)
Ron Stack quite interesting, indeed. Untill before the renaissance almost all languages across the globe used the front R, but with French dominance exerting its influence to other parts in Europe that changed.
What? Much of Germany uses the rolled R, particularly in the south, e.g. Bavaria.
@@hOiKiPOiKiE Not all over Sweden, though.
heel leuk dat eemland nu 't gooi is
ive noticed that when a word/name begins with a R most dutch people also use the rolling R
r is difficult for me.. ik kom uit philippines and im starting watching ur channel .. and good for me for begginer
The fact that someone stress the letter R does not mean is the correct one, but simply the person is aware that the R cannot be identified so he accentuates it in a way that is not possible to mistake it. quite simple. Also the English in their spelling stress letters but when they speak the word in a correct way the stress disappears, as it should.
als je ook Nederlands kan welke taal praat je eigenlijk
Honestly? This video got me more confused than ever before... I mean I'm aware there is a huge variety of ways to pronounce r in dutch, but I thought you need to use at least 2 ways to stick to a certan dutch accent which is native like? For instance words like bart or waar - I think people from the same region would say it for example like the american r, but if they were to say the word spraak or prachtig, they would still then use more the french r. Or am I now totally confused? I thought whatever region you want to stick to, you still need to always use at least 2 types of r?? And I believe there are still slightly multiple different sounding options of r for each of the 3 mentioned main types of r?? Can somebody please help me on this one?
You only need one type of R to speak fluent Dutch. The use of two types of R's (specifically "French" at the start of a word and "American at the end) only became common during the late 20th century and was caused by the media.
The R's in my personal pronunciation are also not different from one another. The two R's of "raar" are identical.
Natively, I use a "guttural R" similar to the "French R", but I also often use a "rolling R" (as in Spanish/Italian).
I never use both in the same sentence.
I have heard many Dutch people combine the French and Italian r. I have no idea what the logic is behind their usage
Your opinion that the correct pronunciation of the R should be rolled or trilled is not wrong, but rather harkens back to Old Dutch and Low Franconian, when the R would indeed have been pronounced that way along with the other Germanic languages, going all the way back to Proto-Germanic. Nonetheless, we know language changes overtime.
Very instructive.
De Gooise ej is een spraakgebrek.
In mijn jeugd sprak men Zd Holland de rollende R.
THE LETTER "W" IS PRONOUNCED LIKE IN ENGLISH "Whisky" OR LIKE IN GERMAN "WELT"...? HOW IS IT PRONOUNCED AT BEGINNING OF A WORD...IN THE MIDDLE OF A WORD OR AT THE END OF A WORD...?
Someone correct me, if I am wrong, but the Dutch "w" is exactly the same as the German "w" spoken by many Germans, if not the majority. If a "w" occurs as part of a diphthong ("nieuwe") there is no "w" sound, but a non-syllabic "u" sound closer to English "w" but not the same.
Weer wat geleerd bedankt
Welke R gebruiken de Vlamingen?
+JCS As a person who lives in Eindhoven and does not know much Dutch, I think it is rolling R. Flemish R is very close to Russian R to my ear.
+JCS In het zuiden gebruiken we meestal de gerolde/spaanse/Russische "r". hoewel in de meeste dialecten hij gewoon getapt wordt, wordt het als "prestigieuzer" gezien als men hem stevig laat door rollen. Een overblijfseltje van de taalstrijd.
Dank u wel,herr Bart!
Thank you so much!
This is kind of funny and really helpful , 😉👍
in indonesian and kansai dialect of japanese, rolling r 's there although I prefer french/german german r. forza OH Leuven NAC,and wilhem ii.
great but difficult. Prima maar heel moeilijk te doen
Je bent een held! Spaanse R all the way!!
- Waar kom je vandaan?
- Maastricht
- Wat?
- Maastricht!
- Wat?
- Maastricht! M, S, T, R, zachte G!
I don't speak a bit of Dutch, but I understood this. 😂
I am asian and I just can't roll my tongue
so i guess i have to choose the french way since i have been learning french for years now,
the english one is easy but it sounds a little bit less dutch for me
after all, rolled R is just so cool and fun i wish i can handle it some day
Which one of those do people have in Nijmegen?
Guttural (throat) R (start and end of words)
Really useful!!
Another reason for elevating the rolling r (especially the tongue tip one) to being the correct one is that it is the most original.
I prefer Dutch with the french R. It sound more natural.
Süper ... Thank u
Beste Bart,
Ik belandde hier omdat een vriendin van mij Nederlands wil leren - en omdat de website geen feedbackmogelijkheden biedt. Geweldig wat je gedaan hebt - supertoegankelijk, systematisch en helder. Maar waar het gaat over je verhaal over de r ben ik het niet met je eens. De 'huig-r' (die ik dus heb meegekregen en die jij kennelijk niet eens kunt uitspreken) is wel degelijk een rollende r, en geen Franse brauw-r (g) of Engelse Gooi-r (huh). De 'Spaanse' tongpunt-r heb ik pas op mijn twintigste geleerd, en mijn moeder kan die, anders dan mijn vader, met de beste wil wil van de wereld niet over haar tong krijgen, zelfs als ze 'Pieterrrr' zou willen zeggen - maar haar r is geen 'g' od 'huh'. Dus ik heb het gevoel dat je in dit opzicht iets gemist hebt.
Verder: chapeau, dank! Ga zo door!
Frits
Hoe kan ik mijn huig-r verbeteren?
it's really useful for Asian