Active versus passive skills! Excellent point. Reading and listening are the skills we need! Writing and speaking are the skills not needed as much. This is the reason why I decided to opt for the GT method versus the Living Language method. I have a MA in Linguistics and struggled with this decision for a year before I joined BMA. I am now moved through the Milestones and now can read through 20 of the 27 books of the NT! I am looking at working in the Septuagint and the Apostolic Fathers too! This is the most excellent program I have found.
Have you seen William Sanford LaSor's Hebrew course? It consists of reading all of the book of Esther (chosen because it has lots of feminine forms) and learning each feature of the language as it appears in the text.
🥪 I am making my way through BBG. CH10. I had to have the humility to realize my english skills were not where they needed to be, so I got a book to help with that and it felt like backtracking, but it was necessaryand rewarding. I think you made some good points. The BBG is laid out for seminary semesters, and i am just enjoying this in my spare time and i often wonter how the course might be structured differently for someone like myself. I am enjoying the process and Bill has some great insights to keep me motivated. I am here to learn to read the Bible in Greek and understand the wonderful subtleties English can't provide. I may learn modern Greek afterward.
Thanks for your comment! I suspect you've overstated your case a little, here. I would like to be wise with the way I communicate some of these points.
@@bma The second half of this video was very good, and i'm sure it was your prior experience making videos that caused you to spend the first half reiterating that opinions aren't attacks
I don’t know that I have a criticism of the ‘grammar-translate method’ for your target audience, seminarians, pastors, and other explainers of the texts. I had three years of Greek, koine and Attic, e g Anabisis, Meno, Apology, etc. I could read the texts and enjoy them. Enjoy them in Greek, translation was not my goal. However, I graduated (1966), went into the military, visited tropical countries, and forgot about Greek. Now I’d like to regain that reading skill. So, graduated readings, vocabulary, plus grammar as required seems to be a path. But not one that is so common. Greek is beautiful and enjoyable, a lost and ignored orientation.
Question: Do you have a video breaking down the meaning and or use of the word baptism in the NT? If so, could I get a link? If not, would you consider making one?
Grammar is like salt over a nice meal. In the right proportions, really good. Too much, horrible and if nothing but salt then pretty unbearable. Starting from where people are is a good idea. It's a good idea to apply some grammar terms to English - obviously the case system takes us beyond that. But grammar is a language about language. Not all studnts will know the language about language. As for the case system. In my opinion starting from tables or even rote-learning tables is counterproductive and unnecessary. For a start I would teach the gentive because anchored in a lot of set phrases (Son of God, Son of Man, light of the world etc) which, after nominative elaves accusative and dative, which again one can graps intuitively fairly easily., in context. I agree with starting with the past tense becuase that aids in understanding of gospels etc. Reading is important. For a number of reasons. One is it's fairly enjoyable. It helps with both motivation and self confidence. Reading is important for another reason which is that the brain is busy in the background generating grammatical knowledge through exposure to language. The grammar is grasped intuitively or is more easily identified in reading. The biggest sin of grammar translation is people develop ideas that this is very painful and stressful. The less well endowed students feel stupid or ashamed and as a result shut down. That is a terrible thing to happen to any language learner. It is a harm inflicted by pedagogy, really and it is unconscionable. I very much favour reading. I also favour listening where the text is well understood. I don't like the idea of speaking in Koine Greek. However a greeting or basic conversation might again help build up people's enjoyment and confidence levels provided students enjoy it and aren't stressed..
how many people read KOINE GREEK and understand it like their home native language? People may act like they do but FEW actually do and enjoy it like it was their spoken language. I have never met anyone who can converse in KOINE. 😂
Χαῖρε Στέφανε, πῶς ἔχεις; Ἐγὼ ὁμιλῶ Ἑλληνιστί. Οὗτοι ὁμιλοῦσιν Ἑλληνιστί: Benjamin Kantor - American giving a 12-minute speech in Ancient Greek in Delphi Greece: "Learning from a Living Voice" Christophe Rico - Interview with Christophe Rico in Ancient Greek/ διάλογος πρὸς Χριστόφορον Eugenia Manolidou - διάλογος πρὸς Εὐγενίαν / Interview in Ancient Greek with Eugenia Manolidou Michael Kopf - διάλογος πρὸς Κέφαλον / Interview in Ancient Greek with Michael Kopf (AGROS education) Dr. Jordash Kiffiak - Koine Greek Video Blog #7: A Conversation in Koine Greek with Dr. Jordash Kiffiak Ἄνθρωποι δύο ὁμιλοῦσιν Ἑλληνιστί - Koine Greek Conversation @learnbiblicalgreek316 Kαὶ πολλοὶ ἄλλοι ὁμιλοῦσιν Ἑλληνιστί.
It doesn’t surprise me you haven’t met anyone who can converse in Koine. My guess is there are few who like to converse with you in English as well, I’ll make an exception. It’s fun to see ignorance in action especially when you judge things by your own experience. But at the Polis Institute in Jerusalem, whether the student is learning biblical Greek or Hebrew, Latin or Syriac, etc., they must only communicate in the classroom with the language that is being taught. So, go learn Greek there and you can. You have now been given information you don’t have, now let’s hope wisdom sets in and you can be less offensive to people who are trying to help the church. Cheers!
you are a really good salesman…. I would love to hear you just speak in KOINE GREEK with another human being like you would speak in a non-dead language. You can’t and none of your students will either. Stop titillating and admit this… Stop this Click Bait SALES STUFF.
If you're going to Greece knowing only Biblical Greek, you're going to be stumped by words of Turkish origin, such as αγιάζι (frost, nothing to do with holiness) and μπαγλαμάς (μπαγλαμᾶς in polytonic?), a stringed instrument, 1st decl. in singular but 3rd in plural. There are also lots of words from French, like μπλε (blue), though Wiktionary's category also includes pure Greek words like ακουστικός which were borrowed from French terms coined from Greek roots.
*looks through the comments while listening to the video and is confused by the sandwich emojis until I reach the end of the video* Well played, Dr. Burling 🥪
I am confused. What is the distinction you are making between reading and exegesis? I am guessing you mean the difference between the effort of rendering into English ("reading") and the ensuing theological reasoning about the English translation ("exegesis"). Is that what you mean? Do people rush through the first part and not consider all the dimensions of the grammar and how it might be translated, so they close off possibilities?
Exegesis is an analytical process, it focuses on word usage, grammar and syntax. This is useful for translation and deep analysis. Reading is not translating. You don't translate what you read in English, reading Greek means you understand without translation. Both reading and analysis are important for true understanding and sharing meaning.
Exegesis is the analysis of the language which is a normal part of the hermeneutical process. It asks questions about how words relate to each other and to the overall idea being communicated. The goal is to understand, what did the author intend to communicate. Reading will give you this at a high level, but exegesis considers how each word and phrase contributes to the authors intention. Not everyone needs to do exegesis, but I think it is unhelpful to focus on exegesis without first being able to generally follow the authors argument by reading it. Reading reveals intricacies in the authors argument that need further investigation or explanation. I hope that helps!
Thanks for asking! I'm considering it! Right now while it's largely written (and members can download it) we are working on fine tuning the content, finding errors and things that need clarification. Once it settles, we'll look at publication.
Active versus passive skills! Excellent point. Reading and listening are the skills we need! Writing and speaking are the skills not needed as much. This is the reason why I decided to opt for the GT method versus the Living Language method. I have a MA in Linguistics and struggled with this decision for a year before I joined BMA. I am now moved through the Milestones and now can read through 20 of the 27 books of the NT! I am looking at working in the Septuagint and the Apostolic Fathers too! This is the most excellent program I have found.
Have you seen William Sanford LaSor's Hebrew course? It consists of reading all of the book of Esther (chosen because it has lots of feminine forms) and learning each feature of the language as it appears in the text.
🥪 I am making my way through BBG. CH10. I had to have the humility to realize my english skills were not where they needed to be, so I got a book to help with that and it felt like backtracking, but it was necessaryand rewarding. I think you made some good points. The BBG is laid out for seminary semesters, and i am just enjoying this in my spare time and i often wonter how the course might be structured differently for someone like myself. I am enjoying the process and Bill has some great insights to keep me motivated. I am here to learn to read the Bible in Greek and understand the wonderful subtleties English can't provide. I may learn modern Greek afterward.
“Exegesis is the overflow of good reading.” 💯🥪
95% of this video (at least the first half) is "it's okay to disagree with me." Is this really what online communication is forced to be?
Thanks for your comment! I suspect you've overstated your case a little, here. I would like to be wise with the way I communicate some of these points.
@@bma The second half of this video was very good, and i'm sure it was your prior experience making videos that caused you to spend the first half reiterating that opinions aren't attacks
🥪 : ) I like how you thought through what was really needed vs. hey! let's learn the language
I don’t know that I have a criticism of the ‘grammar-translate method’ for your target audience, seminarians, pastors, and other explainers of the texts.
I had three years of Greek, koine and Attic, e g Anabisis, Meno, Apology, etc. I could read the texts and enjoy them. Enjoy them in Greek, translation was not my goal.
However, I graduated (1966), went into the military, visited tropical countries, and forgot about Greek.
Now I’d like to regain that reading skill. So, graduated readings, vocabulary, plus grammar as required seems to be a path. But not one that is so common.
Greek is beautiful and enjoyable, a lost and ignored orientation.
Question: Do you have a video breaking down the meaning and or use of the word baptism in the NT? If so, could I get a link? If not, would you consider making one?
Sure I can look into that. Do you have any specific concerns I can address?
active skills should mean you can read and talk in it…. No one speaks KOINE GREEK today…. If
🥪
Grammar is like salt over a nice meal. In the right proportions, really good. Too much, horrible and if nothing but salt then pretty unbearable.
Starting from where people are is a good idea. It's a good idea to apply some grammar terms to English - obviously the case system takes us beyond that. But grammar is a language about language. Not all studnts will know the language about language.
As for the case system. In my opinion starting from tables or even rote-learning tables is counterproductive and unnecessary. For a start I would teach the gentive because anchored in a lot of set phrases (Son of God, Son of Man, light of the world etc) which, after nominative elaves accusative and dative, which again one can graps intuitively fairly easily., in context.
I agree with starting with the past tense becuase that aids in understanding of gospels etc.
Reading is important. For a number of reasons. One is it's fairly enjoyable. It helps with both motivation and self confidence. Reading is important for another reason which is that the brain is busy in the background generating grammatical knowledge through exposure to language. The grammar is grasped intuitively or is more easily identified in reading.
The biggest sin of grammar translation is people develop ideas that this is very painful and stressful. The less well endowed students feel stupid or ashamed and as a result shut down. That is a terrible thing to happen to any language learner. It is a harm inflicted by pedagogy, really and it is unconscionable.
I very much favour reading. I also favour listening where the text is well understood. I don't like the idea of speaking in Koine Greek. However a greeting or basic conversation might again help build up people's enjoyment and confidence levels provided students enjoy it and aren't stressed..
🥪
how many people read KOINE GREEK and understand it like their home native language? People may act like they do but FEW actually do and enjoy it like it was their spoken language. I have never met anyone who can converse in KOINE. 😂
Χαῖρε Στέφανε, πῶς ἔχεις; Ἐγὼ ὁμιλῶ Ἑλληνιστί. Οὗτοι ὁμιλοῦσιν Ἑλληνιστί:
Benjamin Kantor - American giving a 12-minute speech in Ancient Greek in Delphi Greece: "Learning from a Living Voice"
Christophe Rico - Interview with Christophe Rico in Ancient Greek/ διάλογος πρὸς Χριστόφορον
Eugenia Manolidou - διάλογος πρὸς Εὐγενίαν / Interview in Ancient Greek with Eugenia Manolidou
Michael Kopf - διάλογος πρὸς Κέφαλον / Interview in Ancient Greek with Michael Kopf (AGROS education)
Dr. Jordash Kiffiak - Koine Greek Video Blog #7: A Conversation in Koine Greek with Dr. Jordash Kiffiak
Ἄνθρωποι δύο ὁμιλοῦσιν Ἑλληνιστί - Koine Greek Conversation @learnbiblicalgreek316
Kαὶ πολλοὶ ἄλλοι ὁμιλοῦσιν Ἑλληνιστί.
It doesn’t surprise me you haven’t met anyone who can converse in Koine. My guess is there are few who like to converse with you in English as well, I’ll make an exception. It’s fun to see ignorance in action especially when you judge things by your own experience. But at the Polis Institute in Jerusalem, whether the student is learning biblical Greek or Hebrew, Latin or Syriac, etc., they must only communicate in the classroom with the language that is being taught. So, go learn Greek there and you can. You have now been given information you don’t have, now let’s hope wisdom sets in and you can be less offensive to people who are trying to help the church. Cheers!
Darryl, you are 100% correct. Back in 1975/76 we were not even translating Biblical passages. Thanks for all that you do.
Thanks for watching!
you are a really good salesman…. I would love to hear you just speak in KOINE GREEK with another human being like you would speak in a non-dead language. You can’t and none of your students will either. Stop titillating and admit this… Stop this Click Bait SALES STUFF.
I'm not arguing for speaking the language. I'm arguing for reading it. Thanks for your comments!
If you're going to Greece knowing only Biblical Greek, you're going to be stumped by words of Turkish origin, such as αγιάζι (frost, nothing to do with holiness) and μπαγλαμάς (μπαγλαμᾶς in polytonic?), a stringed instrument, 1st decl. in singular but 3rd in plural. There are also lots of words from French, like μπλε (blue), though Wiktionary's category also includes pure Greek words like ακουστικός which were borrowed from French terms coined from Greek roots.
I'm sure you're right. However, our focus is not on modern Greek. 😀
*looks through the comments while listening to the video and is confused by the sandwich emojis until I reach the end of the video*
Well played, Dr. Burling 🥪
I am confused. What is the distinction you are making between reading and exegesis? I am guessing you mean the difference between the effort of rendering into English ("reading") and the ensuing theological reasoning about the English translation ("exegesis"). Is that what you mean? Do people rush through the first part and not consider all the dimensions of the grammar and how it might be translated, so they close off possibilities?
Exegesis is an analytical process, it focuses on word usage, grammar and syntax. This is useful for translation and deep analysis. Reading is not translating. You don't translate what you read in English, reading Greek means you understand without translation. Both reading and analysis are important for true understanding and sharing meaning.
Exegesis is the analysis of the language which is a normal part of the hermeneutical process. It asks questions about how words relate to each other and to the overall idea being communicated. The goal is to understand, what did the author intend to communicate. Reading will give you this at a high level, but exegesis considers how each word and phrase contributes to the authors intention. Not everyone needs to do exegesis, but I think it is unhelpful to focus on exegesis without first being able to generally follow the authors argument by reading it. Reading reveals intricacies in the authors argument that need further investigation or explanation. I hope that helps!
"exegesis is the overflow of good reading" -- Love that!
🥪
🥪
🥪
🥪
🥪
Are you going to make your approach available as a grammar book?
Thanks for asking! I'm considering it! Right now while it's largely written (and members can download it) we are working on fine tuning the content, finding errors and things that need clarification. Once it settles, we'll look at publication.
Very interesting insights
Thanks for watching!
🥪 Great video!!
Thank you!