I planted a mix of cereal rye and northwoods medium red clover last fall. It was okay last fall but came in thick in the spring and summer. The medium red clover almost grew up with the rye and there are spots where the clover is almost 2 feet tall. Lots of deer browse on it also. It is by far the best weed suppression I have seen. Would be awesome to no till into after a good mowing. Thats going to be my go to now until I find something better.
Hey Trey, great idea. I have been following a few guys on Habitat Talk that are starting to do the same thing. I am planning on working toward something where clover is a big part of weed suppression as a living mulch along with the normal no-till staple of rye, then throw in a few others for diversity and yum yums for the deer. Please give us feedback on how it is working out as you progress through each planting. All the best to you.
Great video as always Mark. Funny, I'm also planting clover from Northwoods Whitetail throughout all my plots. I noticed the same as you did with last years lite over seeding of red clover doing well and choking out the weeds. Good luck and thank you for the videos!!
I'm a NW Lower MI sand farmer too. Switch to NT and crimping last year. The results from the drill are incredible. The results from crimping, as far as a weed control, was disappointing. Mare's Tail (or whatever you call it) is the bane of my foodplot existence. I got my thistle under control by adding 1 qt 2,4d to my gly application. Every year there seems to be a new pestilence invading my fields! Keeps things interesting and increases my respect for the farmers who make a living on this type of work! Oh, and kudos for the drill calibration video, that helped me to understand the calibration on my 505. Thanks!
Thanks for the feedback. Seems like quite a few of us are in the same boat with weed control. If the Mare's Tail is still there, maybe adding some Dicamba would do the trick, it did at my place. All the best to you.
Thank you for the fine content. I like the mix that Dr. Grant Woods (Growing Deer TV) uses. It gives the deer a lot of variety and does a good job on the soil. Good luck this fall.
Hey Richard, I like their mixes, too, have had a lot of good luck with them. They have improved the soil here for a few years now. Keep at it! All the best to you.
I have only planted mixes with it so far, so can't really say for sure based on my experience. However, a few guys have tried small seeds like clover and had a problem with a gaps between the seed bin and seed cups where small seed can pour out. They closed the gaps with shims or caulk and then it seems to work really well.
Great video. I too am in my fourth and now fifth fall of no till food plots. I too have drought almost every year and Sandy Lely soil and have experience exactly what you were talking about with the dry soil and weeds.
Great video and thank you for all of the information. I live in SE Michigan and my property is exactly like yours: 38 acres sand/loam. I am also no-till working hard on building organic content. I have not found any way around using gly. Good ideas with the clover. I have noticed some of the same with clover on my property. I have had really good luck with Cereal Rye in the sand this last year, planted in August. I also recommend John comp at Northwood Whitetail. Great guy.
I'm fine with having to spray now, was trying to stay away from it in the beginning of this process, but finally figured out it doesn't work that way, and it's nice to hear someone like you has to do the same thing. All the best to you.
Thought-provoking video Mark. I’m interested in knowing what setting you will be using for the corn, soybeans and Sorghum? I purchased a Saya 505 last winter to no-till my heavy clay based food plots. I just planted soybeans using setting #2. I use clover around the fruit trees in my plot. . It helps in deterring groundhogs from hitting the beans.
Hey George, can't say that I know the setting yet, I have to get the mix in the seed box and do the calibration, and I haven't planted this mix before so don't have a reference. Thanks for letting me know the setting you used, gives me a place to start. All the best to you.
Pre-emergents are a game changer for summer plots. If you’re planting any type of legume or sunflowers, Prowl or Pendi(generic) will give you 3 to 4 months of a weed free plot. Plant and spray and your done. You can even mix in gly with it.
Hey Mark, thank you for the idea! I never thought about looking into a pre-emergent. Just this year one of my wife's friends made a comment that she uses Preen (a pre-emergent) in her landscaping. So we gave it a try this year in ours and were just talking last week about how great it has worked to reduce the weeds. Why not do the same in food plots? I'm off to the internet to run recon...... All the best to you.
Good info. I have a Tar River as well and yes weeds are still a problem. I like the clover idea. I have denser soil and am having a problem getting good depth with the soybeans but can't afford a heavier drill so I just keep plodding along. Really don't like spraying but might have to after all.
Same here. In central GA and heavy clay. Tried Soybeans this weekend and had issues getting them in deep enough. It was my first time with a drill. I have the Greenscape 750 drill and it's in between the Tar River and Genesis drill in terms of weight. Possibly it's my improper set up, but I had same issues
Seems like a lot of us are starting to spray. Unfortunate, but necessary. None of the methods are going to be perfect, so we keep learning and adapting the best we can. All the best to you.
Hey Brad, never heard of Greenscape, but just checked their website. Curious on your thoughts after using it for a while, let us know. @@BradFess-jo8to
@theback40 Mine is actually an LMC drill, but it's made by Greenscape. It's their 750 model, re-badged and painted to be sold under the LMC brand name. I stink at operating it and I'm 100% sure it was user error/setup issue. I bought the drill because it's between the Tar River and the Genesis/PM Outdoors. I was going to buy the Tar River based off your videos, but I have clay soils and I was worried about the weight. I believe my drill is about 1200 lb, so in between the Tar River and the Genesis, and it's in between on price as well. Has trays in the front where you can add extra weights, definitely built more HD than the Tar River, but not as crazy as the Genesis. Large and small seed box. Small seeds dump into a splash pan and it has a cast iron cultipacker across the back for closing up the rows. I just need more time to play with it, but looking forward to MANY years of planting with it. Grateful for all the knowledge you share and hoping to also be at the 5 year mark of No-till in a few years.
@@BradFess-jo8to Sounds like a perfect drill. I would be happier to get one a little more heavy duty than the Tar River, but so far, so good. You'll get yours figured out.
Looking at the way you lower the bucket to knock it down. I wonder if you could find someone locally to build you a roller crimper that would mount on the loader. Definitely a time saver and would improve termination. Great journey! Thanks for sharing.
Good idea. I have a buddy that built his own that goes on the front bucket, I'll have to follow up with him to see how it has worked out. Otherwise, I just thought of a farmer buddy of mine too. So many farmers have crazy mechanical skills and design minds to match, I'm sure he can do it. I'm on it, thanks for the idea. All the best to you.
Just curious, what part of West Michigan? We are in southwest Michigan. First generation farmers really interested in the “buffalo” system with the roll crimper. I’ve been gleaning information from both food plotters and regenerative farming. Lots of good knowledge to be shared and put to practice on both sides.
@@stx3715 We're up in the Grand Rapids area. I recommend getting Gabe Brown's book, "Dirt to Soil", it's a great read and will really get you thinking about your farm. You can get it on Amazon.
I spray at spring then in the late to mid summer. Then I'll seed after it dies I'll also frost seed too. I've never sprayed them seed not long after spraying
I have a relatively small 17 acre parcel in SW Wisconsin and struggled like everyone else to strike the right balance of time / money. I try to limit my annual costs to about the $600 range (it was half that ten years ago). At this point I have two plots that are about 1 acre total - after spring turkey hunting and lime spreading (the best time to fix your ph by planting season in August) I don’t set foot on the property until the 3rd or 4th week in July. I rent a walk behind brush hog (I can rent one for ten plus years and it still would not equal cost of buying one for a once a year use) and bust @$$ for 6 hours mowing all the plots. I come back in 1-2 weeks and spray gly while hand broadcasting the first phase of seeds. A week before the opener has me throwing down the second seeds (mostly winter rye and buckwheat) and then after collecting my trail cam cards / final fine tuning of the stands I don’t set foot on the property until my first hunt. No I don’t have perfect food plots but what I do have is a perfect spring fawning property and most weeds have finished their seeding life (ie this concept alone will drive you nuts fighting it all year). What is left sprouts in the 1-2 weeks after mowing really gets impacted by the gly since it is in such a vulnerable / weakened state. All that ground up mowing residue has degraded perfectly for retaining moisture / covers the seeds while they germinate without smothering them. If there is drought then the last preseason buckwheat and rye seeding will save the day. Not perfect but I’m not there to feed the deer all year - they have more than enough food all summer - I also have extra time to spend with the family - you never get that time back….
Good point, we just need the plots to work for hunting season if they have plenty of other year around food sources. Sounds like you have your system dialed in, nice job. All the best to you.
I switched over to clover in all my plots with an August planting of forage radishes and annual clovers. September planting of rye over the clover. All no till. My clover is a great weed suppressant once it thickens up. Good luck this year!
Last Spring, I didn’t have any success with “no spray, broadcast, cultipacking no-till planting on my winter rye cover crop. Buckwheat came up, but with the drought last year, It dried up and became very sparse…much like conventional planting. I switched back to conventional planting (spray, fertilizer, till, seed, and roll it in). The soil moisture content with no-till was no different than conventional planting.
Hey Tim, at least you gave it a try and now you know. Broadcasting definitely did not work here either. You either need to get some sort of a drill, or go back to traditional planting. However, I have seen success from a buddy of mine, and others on TH-cam, that lightly scratch the surface of the soil with their conventional equipment and then broadcast, which has worked very well. Still get most of the no-till benefits. All the best to you.
My suggestion is to separate your feed plots from your kill plots. Feed plots consisting of soybeans are fantastic if they don’t get over browsed before the get established. I use clover as my go to for kill plots. The clover plot must be large enough to support the deer until winter stunts it’s growth but the deer will hammer it all fall during early hunting season. The only thing better than clover is alfalfa so also consider it as well but much harder to grow. FYI, planting feed corner is a no no if you get caught the seed company might make your life miserable….. good luck love your common sense approach!
Hey Tim, thank you for taking the time to give us feedback. And yes, I've planted just soy beans back in my "traditional" farming technique days, and they are all wiped out a few weeks after germination. We'll see how it goes this year when hidden in a mix? I have heard good things about Alfalfa, and I plan to do some recon to see if I can find a strain that will work here, mainly looking for one that can withstand lower temperatures so it is attractive into November here in Michigan. And did I say I was planting "feed corn"? Silly me, I meant to say "seed corn"....... 😉
Hey Jake, thank you. I'm good at learning the hard way, LOL. I just watched your Seclusion update yesterday, seems to be a drift in foodplot plantings to go back in the clover direction again? All the best to you. I recommend anyone reading this watch this video: th-cam.com/video/I_D3JIoEutU/w-d-xo.html.
Hi Mark.....Thanks for a Great video on your experiences with the drill. Your results are close to what I experience here in Northern MN on sandy land. I do have. crimper but last year I never used it....electing to use Glyphosate as well (In July) and then flail mowed the rye....which worked pretty good. (The clover persisted through the glyphosate application.) I do plant red and white clovers on all 7 acres of food plots each year. I do get good clover carryover each year....but add a few lbs of each when drilling in my rye in late August. I also need to kill that clover to grow brassica....as I find the clover outcompetes my attempts at brassica. Just yesterday I drilled some North Woods Whitetail Sorghum into some strips in the clover plots to get some added cover and create biomass. As always...experimenting for the future. Your results are so similar to mine.....and I thank you for putting this up on your channel my friend.
Hey Tom, thanks for the feedback. Good idea overseeding the clover each season, I'll have to implement this one. Let us know how the sorghum performs, or I'll check your TH-cam channel for a follow up video. Did you publish anything on why you chose spraying vs crimping?
@@theback40 Hey Mark. Trying to remember my decision to spray......and I believe I was trying to get rid of a flush of grasses and weeds with the herbicides. I still am tolerating excess weeds in my plots as I write this. But this year I plan to roller crimp and possibly spot spray some areas. My sprayer is broke right now.....and I am waiting on a replacement to ship for this years efforts.
@@tompeterson3296 Had to fix my sprayer, too. Thought I had drained all the water out last fall, but there was still enough in there to freeze and expand and crack a fitting, so that set me back a week waiting for the part.
Kind of like swirch grass, perennial clover will win when mowing the weeds from the top. Planting tall grain crops into it takes away the mowing option. That said, I'm in the process of converting FP into mostly clover, just seeded 1/2 perennial, the other half hoping for natural reseeded crimson and red. Relatively sparse Winter Rye has more time to grow yet a bit north of you. Perfect timing of rains right now to (hopelly) to get clover germ before mowing the rye and whatever weeds. Only planning a Winter Rye overseeding in late summer.
Like you it's a daunting experience. I have a no till drill and crimper but still face the same issues as you. Those weed seeds will always be there. You'll never not have weeds without spraying. Smother crops make you feel really good till you terminate them and then all of a sudden here come the weeds. No till looks great initially then over time you'll have weeds coming up in your rows from just that bit of ground disturbance. Supposedly spraying is kill the good bacteria and fungi which is not ideal, but neither is a ton of weeds. Not sure there is a good answer for food plotters unless you're ok with weedy plots.
Hey Brandon, this is all a big experiment to see what ends up working. Nothing is going to be perfect, so we have to "pick our poison", weeds, spraying, tilling, killing microbes......ugh. I'm going to pick taking the chance that the gly really isn't killing off the microbes and bacteria to a detrimental degree. All the best to you.
We still use lots of clover and chicory. Really like alfalfa puts down a deeper root , stays green in the summer and much more tonnage per acre. NE Mich . They like your old clover better because the root system has gotten deeper and is pulling more minerals out of the soil . We have a no till drill and sprayer for the price of roundup I have a hard time justifying the price of a crimper . No farms by me so our plots get hit hard
Hey Bob, great to hear, thank you for sharing this. I've thought about alfalfa a few times, but never planted because I thought it died off at first frost? Let me know your experience with it. Or, maybe there's a type that is cold resistance now??? All the best to you.
@@theback40 it might depend on the variety. I’ve planted the rr variety. They dig through the snow for it and the only thing that greens up faster in the spring is rye . The seed is very expensive, but in the long run it’s cheap because of the tonnage it produces. And the first stand I put in is 5 years old now and still going strong. I would do a soil test to determine if it will work for you. And since you have the sprayer I’ve found foliar feeding has done much better for me than spreading fertilizer, it’s also much easier and allows you to grow more/better plants while you’re amending/building soil
Mark, do yourself a favor and invest in the crimper, put the sprayer back in storage. No need to feed the deer, you, or your family more glyphosate! If you are compelled to spray a little check out Contact Organics. I just ordered a gallon to experiment with. Thx
Your food plot looks awesome! Take a look at the Packer Maxx Crimper Combo. It is $1,324.99. I just used it for the first time and it worked very well for me in South Carolina. You can pull it with a 4-wheeler, UTV, or tractor. Thanks for the video's.
@@theback40 it terminated ryegrass, winter oats, clover, most of the lespedeza, and some of the other weeds. It didn't kill everything. It did create a great mat over the seed I threw out. It appears to be keeping the weeds at bay. I had germination in about 5 days with 1 light rain. That part I was very happy about. This is the first time I have used this method. So far I am very pleased. (FYI I did want the clover!)
@@Brokehunter1 Thanks. Please keep me updated on how it performs. I was just looking at their website and realized they are located about 15 miles from me.
@@theback40 The food plot is looking great after the rains we've had! Where the crimped "mat" is thick, there are zero weeds. Where we had exposed ground after the crimp, there is lespedeza popping up. Having said that, I would think spray and crimp for the first year or so. That way you keep the weeds down until that mat is created. Let me know what you think.
@@Brokehunter1 I hope the crimper ends up being the only tool needed, but from what I have watched, read, and experienced so far, I think spraying will needs to be part of the program. Time will tell, we just need to keep trying and sharing results so we can all get this figured out asap. Please keep me updated.
Hey Jared, thanks for the feedback. Seems like there are quite a few of us doing this now based on the feedback from this video over the last couple of days. All the best to you.
Hey Brad, regrets? This is a head scratcher for me right now. I don't have any regrets at the moment, but my fear is always the future problems that might occur because it is light duty. Assembled with nuts and bolts (welding would be much better, but welders are very skilled and very expensive, but worth every penny). The vertical travel of the discs is also very short compared to farm duty drills, which means small undulations in the plots get missed (but still very effective, probably 90%, which is good enough for food plots). If I was given a choice, for the same price, to get a farm duty drill in great condition, or a brand new Tar River, I'd take the farm duty drill. But it takes time, knowledge, and more risk to go that way. I could go on and on, but I'll stop here. Just let me know if you have any other questions, I'm happy to help. All the best to you.
Glyphosate does not completely kill clover. Initially I would lightly roto till after the spraying and bothstill didn’t kill it. Now I no till into it spring and fall. First year growing corn in 9-10’ rows. It’s growing well so far. Rye and oats can easily be no tilled into ghly sprayed or lightly tilled clover.
We have a similar situation where we use annual clover in spring and fall, then want to terminate clover and follow with fall brassicas. Agree that light tilling and gly do not terminate glover. Going to try mowing clover very short during hot day end of summer , then lightly tilling and maybe gly before planting brassicas.
Hey Aaron, this is great to hear, thank you for sharing. I have sprayed gly on the plots, and have seen the clover live through it like you. Good idea, and glad to hear the corn and grains still grow. All the best to you.
Deer like the clover because they prefer a forb over a grass like rye. Also what was your Organic matter 5 years ago to what it is now doing no till practice?
Hey Justin, I didn't get it tested this year, been doing it every other year. I did it last year and the test didn't show an increase, but a subscriber very knowledgeable in soil reviewed the test reports and pointed out that it was probably because the lab changed the testing method from the previous comparison, so it was apples to oranges (very disappointing). I can say that my observations in the vigor of the plantings has increased each year, and this past year was outstanding. But, I readily admit, this is subjective, and could be confirmation bias on my part. All the best to you.
Hey Rob, I've only sprayed once (not counting yesterday), so I wouldn't say I have a lot of experience. However, I sprayed just once last year prior to drilling in the summer planting in early June. I feel it worked really well, as both the summer and then the fall crops did really well. I intend to just do the one spraying again this year. All the best to you.
I just planted soybeans with a little bit of Milo. When the leaves fall off the soybeans I'm going to try to plant some either brassica or clover. Kind of the same theory that you're going with.
Hey Alan, I upped the concentration of gyl to 3 quarts/acres hoping this will be enough for the thistle? If not, I'll be spraying Crossbow next year as you recommend. Thanks for the feedback. All the best to you.
Hey Travis, sorry, but I don't have enough experience with it to tell you for sure what works, and I don't want to steer you wrong. All the best to you.
24D works goiod on my lawn for dandilions. May harm chicory though. My clover and grass are doing fine in the lawn. I wonder if dandilions with their deep roots would complement clover FP in the same way as chicory.
@@travissmith-wz5nc not a food plot scale, but my home garden sits on heavy clay. Although the bees love the early flowers of dandilions, the wife does not. Those that border the garden, I'll keep the taproot in place to penetrate deep into the clay, but chop off the flower heads to keep the wife happy. If too many, too close to the garden, I'll extract by hand, keeping any herbicides well removed from food. Good place to "plant" some winter rye or more preferable, deep rooted covers, contantly trying to feed the rabbits; keep them out of the veggy garden. I actually had a rabbit select a few stems of winter rye and (grass?) from a blanket of buckwheat cover on a new, too wet clay bed for future garden space. I guess rabbits dont prefer young buckwheat
Hey Joey, correct, because we have light sandy/loam soil, we can get away with just a grain drill, NOT a no-till drill. We have to drill while the rye is standing because the discs can't cut the rye stalks if we knock them down first. Otherwise, it slices and plants with no problems. All the best to you.
Mark, love it! You’re a great lab for the rest of us. I think you are exactly right about several things: 1. Drills (I rent a no-till drill) were a game changer for germination in my sandy soil, it’s amazing. 2. Weed control is essential and I learned that from seeing a spot you missed with herbicide last year. I also thought my crop would outcompete weeds, wrong! I’m spraying for now and it makes the diff. I don’t have a crimper either. 3. Three years in (3 falls and 3 springs) and each successive crop has been better than its predecessor, so I’m making progress. Soil is getting darker and improving. 4. I started no-till with my first fall crop being broadcasted, no bueno. Also, my first couple of summer crops dried up and died, the soil had no cover and it dried out quickly. You are a few years ahead of us, but it’s a fun journey and I like the way you scientifically think. My other challenges are different: 1) yaupon is a woody weed that makes either a closed canopy forest impassable or a pasture is overcome and useless, 2) feral hogs love my food plots, and 3) neighbors graze their pastures down to nothing, so their cows break in and have at least partially ruined my fall/winter crop each year - can’t wait to see what an unmolested fall crop looks like. I have also experimented with planting much more than the recommended amount of seed, and I like the results so far. Keep it coming!
Yea..I’m gonna start disking and plowing again before my corn. So every third year will get plowed….Im gonna be a partially no till now. Main chemistry..cleth, buytrac, gly, s metolachlor
We're all figuring out what works for us, and we're all different. I know a few other guys following the channel that are doing the same thing, tried strict no-till but went back to tilling, but at a much lesser degree. All the best to you.
Is Deer gro plot start really a lime alternative? My USDA office says no. Deer GRO is calcium chloride, lime is calcium carbonate. True liquid lime, is made of calcium carbonate correct? Why are youtubers promoting a product that is not really benefiting the soil? Can you do a video explaining the difference between calcium chloride and calcium carbonate(lime). Ive heard calcium chloride is used on highways as a brine since it don't freeze, as well as in tires.. I'd like to use liquid lime, but feel I've been tricked by false marketing and people getting paid lots of $$ to promote a product that really is not beneficial to my soil and food plots.
2-4-DB will target weeds in clover plots, without harming clover, if that helps. Looking forward to this, just drilled 3 acres of clover mix this weekend, and have been beating the idea of later forage soybeans drilled into clover.
Hey Adam, YES, this helps a lot, thank you. If the clover plots get weedy, I'll be checking into this. Sounds like we are on the same path. All the best to you.
I planted a mix of cereal rye and northwoods medium red clover last fall. It was okay last fall but came in thick in the spring and summer. The medium red clover almost grew up with the rye and there are spots where the clover is almost 2 feet tall. Lots of deer browse on it also. It is by far the best weed suppression I have seen. Would be awesome to no till into after a good mowing. Thats going to be my go to now until I find something better.
Hey Trey, great idea. I have been following a few guys on Habitat Talk that are starting to do the same thing. I am planning on working toward something where clover is a big part of weed suppression as a living mulch along with the normal no-till staple of rye, then throw in a few others for diversity and yum yums for the deer. Please give us feedback on how it is working out as you progress through each planting. All the best to you.
Great video as always Mark. Funny, I'm also planting clover from Northwoods Whitetail throughout all my plots. I noticed the same as you did with last years lite over seeding of red clover doing well and choking out the weeds. Good luck and thank you for the videos!!
Hey Todd, thanks for the feedback, maybe we're onto something here? We will know in a few years. All the best to you.
I'm a NW Lower MI sand farmer too. Switch to NT and crimping last year. The results from the drill are incredible. The results from crimping, as far as a weed control, was disappointing. Mare's Tail (or whatever you call it) is the bane of my foodplot existence. I got my thistle under control by adding 1 qt 2,4d to my gly application. Every year there seems to be a new pestilence invading my fields! Keeps things interesting and increases my respect for the farmers who make a living on this type of work! Oh, and kudos for the drill calibration video, that helped me to understand the calibration on my 505. Thanks!
Thanks for the feedback. Seems like quite a few of us are in the same boat with weed control. If the Mare's Tail is still there, maybe adding some Dicamba would do the trick, it did at my place. All the best to you.
Thank you for the fine content. I like the mix that Dr. Grant Woods (Growing Deer TV) uses. It gives the deer a lot of variety and does a good job on the soil. Good luck this fall.
Hey Richard, I like their mixes, too, have had a lot of good luck with them. They have improved the soil here for a few years now. Keep at it! All the best to you.
Another helpful video. You save us so much trial & error. What is smallest & largest seed you can plant with your tar river equipment?
I have only planted mixes with it so far, so can't really say for sure based on my experience. However, a few guys have tried small seeds like clover and had a problem with a gaps between the seed bin and seed cups where small seed can pour out. They closed the gaps with shims or caulk and then it seems to work really well.
Thank you so much for sharing your “ real life” experience with us. Very helpful.
Hey Robert, thanks for the kind words. All the best to you.
Great video. I too am in my fourth and now fifth fall of no till food plots. I too have drought almost every year and Sandy Lely soil and have experience exactly what you were talking about with the dry soil and weeds.
Hey Brian, we'll get this figure out over time, right? All the best to you.
Great video and thank you for all of the information. I live in SE Michigan and my property is exactly like yours: 38 acres sand/loam. I am also no-till working hard on building organic content. I have not found any way around using gly. Good ideas with the clover. I have noticed some of the same with clover on my property. I have had really good luck with Cereal Rye in the sand this last year, planted in August. I also recommend John comp at Northwood Whitetail. Great guy.
I'm fine with having to spray now, was trying to stay away from it in the beginning of this process, but finally figured out it doesn't work that way, and it's nice to hear someone like you has to do the same thing. All the best to you.
Great content! Loved the overview of your no-till journey.
Hey Pat, thanks! All the best to you.
Thought-provoking video Mark. I’m interested in knowing what setting you will be using for the corn, soybeans and Sorghum? I purchased a Saya 505 last winter to no-till my heavy clay based food plots. I just planted soybeans using setting #2. I use clover around the fruit trees in my plot. . It helps in deterring groundhogs from hitting the beans.
Hey George, can't say that I know the setting yet, I have to get the mix in the seed box and do the calibration, and I haven't planted this mix before so don't have a reference. Thanks for letting me know the setting you used, gives me a place to start. All the best to you.
Pre-emergents are a game changer for summer plots. If you’re planting any type of legume or sunflowers, Prowl or Pendi(generic) will give you 3 to 4 months of a weed free plot. Plant and spray and your done. You can even mix in gly with it.
Hey Mark, thank you for the idea! I never thought about looking into a pre-emergent. Just this year one of my wife's friends made a comment that she uses Preen (a pre-emergent) in her landscaping. So we gave it a try this year in ours and were just talking last week about how great it has worked to reduce the weeds. Why not do the same in food plots? I'm off to the internet to run recon...... All the best to you.
Good info. I have a Tar River as well and yes weeds are still a problem. I like the clover idea. I have denser soil and am having a problem getting good depth with the soybeans but can't afford a heavier drill so I just keep plodding along. Really don't like spraying but might have to after all.
Same here. In central GA and heavy clay. Tried Soybeans this weekend and had issues getting them in deep enough. It was my first time with a drill. I have the Greenscape 750 drill and it's in between the Tar River and Genesis drill in terms of weight. Possibly it's my improper set up, but I had same issues
Seems like a lot of us are starting to spray. Unfortunate, but necessary. None of the methods are going to be perfect, so we keep learning and adapting the best we can. All the best to you.
Hey Brad, never heard of Greenscape, but just checked their website. Curious on your thoughts after using it for a while, let us know. @@BradFess-jo8to
@theback40 Mine is actually an LMC drill, but it's made by Greenscape. It's their 750 model, re-badged and painted to be sold under the LMC brand name. I stink at operating it and I'm 100% sure it was user error/setup issue. I bought the drill because it's between the Tar River and the Genesis/PM Outdoors. I was going to buy the Tar River based off your videos, but I have clay soils and I was worried about the weight. I believe my drill is about 1200 lb, so in between the Tar River and the Genesis, and it's in between on price as well. Has trays in the front where you can add extra weights, definitely built more HD than the Tar River, but not as crazy as the Genesis. Large and small seed box. Small seeds dump into a splash pan and it has a cast iron cultipacker across the back for closing up the rows. I just need more time to play with it, but looking forward to MANY years of planting with it.
Grateful for all the knowledge you share and hoping to also be at the 5 year mark of No-till in a few years.
@@BradFess-jo8to Sounds like a perfect drill. I would be happier to get one a little more heavy duty than the Tar River, but so far, so good. You'll get yours figured out.
Looking at the way you lower the bucket to knock it down. I wonder if you could find someone locally to build you a roller crimper that would mount on the loader. Definitely a time saver and would improve termination.
Great journey! Thanks for sharing.
Good idea. I have a buddy that built his own that goes on the front bucket, I'll have to follow up with him to see how it has worked out. Otherwise, I just thought of a farmer buddy of mine too. So many farmers have crazy mechanical skills and design minds to match, I'm sure he can do it. I'm on it, thanks for the idea. All the best to you.
Just curious, what part of West Michigan? We are in southwest Michigan.
First generation farmers really interested in the “buffalo” system with the roll crimper. I’ve been gleaning information from both food plotters and regenerative farming. Lots of good knowledge to be shared and put to practice on both sides.
@@stx3715 We're up in the Grand Rapids area. I recommend getting Gabe Brown's book, "Dirt to Soil", it's a great read and will really get you thinking about your farm. You can get it on Amazon.
I spray at spring then in the late to mid summer. Then I'll seed after it dies I'll also frost seed too. I've never sprayed them seed not long after spraying
Hey Charles, thanks for the info. I'm thinking I might be doing the same thing this year. All the best to you.
@@theback40 your welcome
I have a relatively small 17 acre parcel in SW Wisconsin and struggled like everyone else to strike the right balance of time / money. I try to limit my annual costs to about the $600 range (it was half that ten years ago). At this point I have two plots that are about 1 acre total - after spring turkey hunting and lime spreading (the best time to fix your ph by planting season in August) I don’t set foot on the property until the 3rd or 4th week in July. I rent a walk behind brush hog (I can rent one for ten plus years and it still would not equal cost of buying one for a once a year use) and bust @$$ for 6 hours mowing all the plots. I come back in 1-2 weeks and spray gly while hand broadcasting the first phase of seeds. A week before the opener has me throwing down the second seeds (mostly winter rye and buckwheat) and then after collecting my trail cam cards / final fine tuning of the stands I don’t set foot on the property until my first hunt. No I don’t have perfect food plots but what I do have is a perfect spring fawning property and most weeds have finished their seeding life (ie this concept alone will drive you nuts fighting it all year). What is left sprouts in the 1-2 weeks after mowing really gets impacted by the gly since it is in such a vulnerable / weakened state. All that ground up mowing residue has degraded perfectly for retaining moisture / covers the seeds while they germinate without smothering them. If there is drought then the last preseason buckwheat and rye seeding will save the day. Not perfect but I’m not there to feed the deer all year - they have more than enough food all summer - I also have extra time to spend with the family - you never get that time back….
Good point, we just need the plots to work for hunting season if they have plenty of other year around food sources. Sounds like you have your system dialed in, nice job. All the best to you.
Great video, I am NoTill Planting this weekend in NY myself in my small plots . Feeling all your points 👨🏻👍🏼
Thanks. Misery loves company right? Best of luck in your planting this weekend, hope you get a well timed rain. All the best to you.
@@theback40 lol , yep 😂 . Should get a burst of rain tonight by me when I am done today … HappyPlottin’
@@figandcloverranch5871 Perfect!
Spot on video. Good luck with your current experiment.
Hey David, thanks. All the best to you.
I switched over to clover in all my plots with an August planting of forage radishes and annual clovers.
September planting of rye over the clover. All no till. My clover is a great weed suppressant once it thickens up.
Good luck this year!
This is great feedback! Thank you for taking the time to share this, you're giving me hope that maybe I'm on the right track? All the best to you.
Last Spring, I didn’t have any success with “no spray, broadcast, cultipacking no-till planting on my winter rye cover crop. Buckwheat came up, but with the drought last year, It dried up and became very sparse…much like conventional planting.
I switched back to conventional planting (spray, fertilizer, till, seed, and roll it in).
The soil moisture content with no-till was no different than conventional planting.
Hey Tim, at least you gave it a try and now you know. Broadcasting definitely did not work here either. You either need to get some sort of a drill, or go back to traditional planting. However, I have seen success from a buddy of mine, and others on TH-cam, that lightly scratch the surface of the soil with their conventional equipment and then broadcast, which has worked very well. Still get most of the no-till benefits. All the best to you.
Good Moring Mark!!! Good Info!! Thanks for sharing!
Hey Keith, thanks! All the best to you.
My suggestion is to separate your feed plots from your kill plots. Feed plots consisting of soybeans are fantastic if they don’t get over browsed before the get established. I use clover as my go to for kill plots. The clover plot must be large enough to support the deer until winter stunts it’s growth but the deer will hammer it all fall during early hunting season. The only thing better than clover is alfalfa so also consider it as well but much harder to grow. FYI, planting feed corner is a no no if you get caught the seed company might make your life miserable….. good luck love your common sense approach!
Hey Tim, thank you for taking the time to give us feedback. And yes, I've planted just soy beans back in my "traditional" farming technique days, and they are all wiped out a few weeks after germination. We'll see how it goes this year when hidden in a mix? I have heard good things about Alfalfa, and I plan to do some recon to see if I can find a strain that will work here, mainly looking for one that can withstand lower temperatures so it is attractive into November here in Michigan. And did I say I was planting "feed corn"? Silly me, I meant to say "seed corn"....... 😉
Great update Mark, I agree theres times weed control needs to part of your plan or youll pay for it the following season.
Hey Jake, thank you. I'm good at learning the hard way, LOL. I just watched your Seclusion update yesterday, seems to be a drift in foodplot plantings to go back in the clover direction again? All the best to you. I recommend anyone reading this watch this video: th-cam.com/video/I_D3JIoEutU/w-d-xo.html.
Use humus to spray on food plot Keller Homestead just south of Ionia can provide. I spray on my sweetcorn.
Hey Daniel, thank you for this, I intend to look further into it this weekend. Found their website: www.kellerhomestead.com/. All the best to you.
Hi Mark.....Thanks for a Great video on your experiences with the drill. Your results are close to what I experience here in Northern MN on sandy land. I do have. crimper but last year I never used it....electing to use Glyphosate as well (In July) and then flail mowed the rye....which worked pretty good. (The clover persisted through the glyphosate application.) I do plant red and white clovers on all 7 acres of food plots each year. I do get good clover carryover each year....but add a few lbs of each when drilling in my rye in late August. I also need to kill that clover to grow brassica....as I find the clover outcompetes my attempts at brassica. Just yesterday I drilled some North Woods Whitetail Sorghum into some strips in the clover plots to get some added cover and create biomass. As always...experimenting for the future. Your results are so similar to mine.....and I thank you for putting this up on your channel my friend.
Hey Tom, thanks for the feedback. Good idea overseeding the clover each season, I'll have to implement this one. Let us know how the sorghum performs, or I'll check your TH-cam channel for a follow up video. Did you publish anything on why you chose spraying vs crimping?
@@theback40 Hey Mark. Trying to remember my decision to spray......and I believe I was trying to get rid of a flush of grasses and weeds with the herbicides. I still am tolerating excess weeds in my plots as I write this. But this year I plan to roller crimp and possibly spot spray some areas. My sprayer is broke right now.....and I am waiting on a replacement to ship for this years efforts.
@@tompeterson3296 Had to fix my sprayer, too. Thought I had drained all the water out last fall, but there was still enough in there to freeze and expand and crack a fitting, so that set me back a week waiting for the part.
Great share my friend of what you think will work
Thanks! All the best to you.
@@theback40 same to you
Kind of like swirch grass, perennial clover will win when mowing the weeds from the top. Planting tall grain crops into it takes away the mowing option.
That said, I'm in the process of converting FP into mostly clover, just seeded 1/2 perennial, the other half hoping for natural reseeded crimson and red. Relatively sparse Winter Rye has more time to grow yet a bit north of you. Perfect timing of rains right now to (hopelly) to get clover germ before mowing the rye and whatever weeds. Only planning a Winter Rye overseeding in late summer.
Hey David, the rain was perfect timing. Please keep us updated on how this turns out, especially the rye overseeding. All the best to you.
Like you it's a daunting experience. I have a no till drill and crimper but still face the same issues as you. Those weed seeds will always be there. You'll never not have weeds without spraying. Smother crops make you feel really good till you terminate them and then all of a sudden here come the weeds. No till looks great initially then over time you'll have weeds coming up in your rows from just that bit of ground disturbance. Supposedly spraying is kill the good bacteria and fungi which is not ideal, but neither is a ton of weeds. Not sure there is a good answer for food plotters unless you're ok with weedy plots.
Hey Brandon, this is all a big experiment to see what ends up working. Nothing is going to be perfect, so we have to "pick our poison", weeds, spraying, tilling, killing microbes......ugh. I'm going to pick taking the chance that the gly really isn't killing off the microbes and bacteria to a detrimental degree. All the best to you.
We still use lots of clover and chicory. Really like alfalfa puts down a deeper root , stays green in the summer and much more tonnage per acre. NE Mich . They like your old clover better because the root system has gotten deeper and is pulling more minerals out of the soil . We have a no till drill and sprayer for the price of roundup I have a hard time justifying the price of a crimper . No farms by me so our plots get hit hard
Hey Bob, great to hear, thank you for sharing this. I've thought about alfalfa a few times, but never planted because I thought it died off at first frost? Let me know your experience with it. Or, maybe there's a type that is cold resistance now??? All the best to you.
@@theback40 it might depend on the variety. I’ve planted the rr variety. They dig through the snow for it and the only thing that greens up faster in the spring is rye . The seed is very expensive, but in the long run it’s cheap because of the tonnage it produces. And the first stand I put in is 5 years old now and still going strong. I would do a soil test to determine if it will work for you. And since you have the sprayer I’ve found foliar feeding has done much better for me than spreading fertilizer, it’s also much easier and allows you to grow more/better plants while you’re amending/building soil
@@66rmw Thank you for responding! I'm going to recon this more for next year.
Mark, do yourself a favor and invest in the crimper, put the sprayer back in storage. No need to feed the deer, you, or your family more glyphosate! If you are compelled to spray a little check out Contact Organics. I just ordered a gallon to experiment with. Thx
Hey Greg, thanks. Let us know how that stuff works, could be a great alternative. All the best to you.
Mark....great info. What did you use to control the mares tail? thanks, Bob
Hey Bob, gly, 2-4D, and Dicamba mix took care of the mares tail. All the best to you.
Dicamba was what worked for me......thanks.
Your food plot looks awesome! Take a look at the Packer Maxx Crimper Combo. It is $1,324.99. I just used it for the first time and it worked very well for me in South Carolina. You can pull it with a 4-wheeler, UTV, or tractor. Thanks for the video's.
Hey Spencer, thanks, I'll check it out for sure. Does it just terminate the rye and cover crop, or does it get the weeds, too?
@@theback40 it terminated ryegrass, winter oats, clover, most of the lespedeza, and some of the other weeds. It didn't kill everything. It did create a great mat over the seed I threw out. It appears to be keeping the weeds at bay. I had germination in about 5 days with 1 light rain. That part I was very happy about. This is the first time I have used this method. So far I am very pleased. (FYI I did want the clover!)
@@Brokehunter1 Thanks. Please keep me updated on how it performs. I was just looking at their website and realized they are located about 15 miles from me.
@@theback40 The food plot is looking great after the rains we've had! Where the crimped "mat" is thick, there are zero weeds. Where we had exposed ground after the crimp, there is lespedeza popping up. Having said that, I would think spray and crimp for the first year or so. That way you keep the weeds down until that mat is created. Let me know what you think.
@@Brokehunter1 I hope the crimper ends up being the only tool needed, but from what I have watched, read, and experienced so far, I think spraying will needs to be part of the program. Time will tell, we just need to keep trying and sharing results so we can all get this figured out asap. Please keep me updated.
I’m with ya buddy I like the no till but I haven’t been able to make it work without some occasional herbicide applications
Hey Jared, thanks for the feedback. Seems like there are quite a few of us doing this now based on the feedback from this video over the last couple of days. All the best to you.
Any regrets on the tar river planter?
Thinking of getting one
Hey Brad, regrets? This is a head scratcher for me right now. I don't have any regrets at the moment, but my fear is always the future problems that might occur because it is light duty. Assembled with nuts and bolts (welding would be much better, but welders are very skilled and very expensive, but worth every penny). The vertical travel of the discs is also very short compared to farm duty drills, which means small undulations in the plots get missed (but still very effective, probably 90%, which is good enough for food plots). If I was given a choice, for the same price, to get a farm duty drill in great condition, or a brand new Tar River, I'd take the farm duty drill. But it takes time, knowledge, and more risk to go that way. I could go on and on, but I'll stop here. Just let me know if you have any other questions, I'm happy to help. All the best to you.
Glyphosate does not completely kill clover. Initially I would lightly roto till after the spraying and bothstill didn’t kill it. Now I no till into it spring and fall. First year growing corn in 9-10’ rows. It’s growing well so far. Rye and oats can easily be no tilled into ghly sprayed or lightly tilled clover.
We have a similar situation where we use annual clover in spring and fall, then want to terminate clover and follow with fall brassicas. Agree that light tilling and gly do not terminate glover. Going to try mowing clover very short during hot day end of summer , then lightly tilling and maybe gly before planting brassicas.
Hey Aaron, this is great to hear, thank you for sharing. I have sprayed gly on the plots, and have seen the clover live through it like you. Good idea, and glad to hear the corn and grains still grow. All the best to you.
Deer like the clover because they prefer a forb over a grass like rye. Also what was your Organic matter 5 years ago to what it is now doing no till practice?
Hey Justin, I didn't get it tested this year, been doing it every other year. I did it last year and the test didn't show an increase, but a subscriber very knowledgeable in soil reviewed the test reports and pointed out that it was probably because the lab changed the testing method from the previous comparison, so it was apples to oranges (very disappointing). I can say that my observations in the vigor of the plantings has increased each year, and this past year was outstanding. But, I readily admit, this is subjective, and could be confirmation bias on my part. All the best to you.
How is that Tar river drill holding up? Looking to get one myself. Also, where did you get yours? I'm near Traverse City and can't find any nearby.
So far, so good. Seems to be holding up well to this point. For food plotting, it gets the job done. All the best to you.
@theback40 That's great! Any leads on where to purchase one in Michigan?
@@vervi1jw1 I purchased mine at Burnips Equipment in Coopersville.
So, you are drilling in the corn, soybeans, oats and clover all in the same pass? You will then come back in a few days and spray? Is this correct?
Correct. Just have to get the spraying done sometime before the seeds germinate. All the best to you.
Is Marestail roundup resistant?
Hey Sean, yes. I used a combo of gly, 2-4D, and Dicamba last year and it wiped it out. All the best to you.
When do you spray and how many times a year? I'm starting year 2 of my property and weeds are just out of control!!!
Hey Rob, I've only sprayed once (not counting yesterday), so I wouldn't say I have a lot of experience. However, I sprayed just once last year prior to drilling in the summer planting in early June. I feel it worked really well, as both the summer and then the fall crops did really well. I intend to just do the one spraying again this year. All the best to you.
Glyphosate will not hurt the clover and ryes?
The crimson clover and rye are pretty close to done in June, so I don't mind that they are terminated by gly at that time.
Awesome thanks for info
I just planted soybeans with a little bit of Milo. When the leaves fall off the soybeans I'm going to try to plant some either brassica or clover. Kind of the same theory that you're going with.
Hey Douglas, let us know how it turns out, that's an interesting mix and strategy for fall planting. All the best to you.
Thistle is hard to kill. I’ve had good luck with a herbicide called Crossbow. The downside is that you must wait 3 weeks to plant after spraying.
Hey Alan, I upped the concentration of gyl to 3 quarts/acres hoping this will be enough for the thistle? If not, I'll be spraying Crossbow next year as you recommend. Thanks for the feedback. All the best to you.
Dandelion problem in clover chicory????? Ideas??
Hey Travis, sorry, but I don't have enough experience with it to tell you for sure what works, and I don't want to steer you wrong. All the best to you.
24D works goiod on my lawn for dandilions. May harm chicory though. My clover and grass are doing fine in the lawn. I wonder if dandilions with their deep roots would complement clover FP in the same way as chicory.
@@davidvankainen6711 that is my question if they help or hurt. Thanks for your response 👍
@@davidvankainen6711 Hey David, thank you for helping out here.
@@travissmith-wz5nc not a food plot scale, but my home garden sits on heavy clay. Although the bees love the early flowers of dandilions, the wife does not. Those that border the garden, I'll keep the taproot in place to penetrate deep into the clay, but chop off the flower heads to keep the wife happy. If too many, too close to the garden, I'll extract by hand, keeping any herbicides well removed from food. Good place to "plant" some winter rye or more preferable, deep rooted covers, contantly trying to feed the rabbits; keep them out of the veggy garden. I actually had a rabbit select a few stems of winter rye and (grass?) from a blanket of buckwheat cover on a new, too wet clay bed for future garden space. I guess rabbits dont prefer young buckwheat
Anyone know where a drill can be rented in s.e. michigan, trouble finding any for rent nearby?
Check to see if you have a Pheasants Forever chapter in your area, they usually have one available.
So the drill you’re using is a drill but not a no-till drill? If so, you’re getting amazing results.
Hey Joey, correct, because we have light sandy/loam soil, we can get away with just a grain drill, NOT a no-till drill. We have to drill while the rye is standing because the discs can't cut the rye stalks if we knock them down first. Otherwise, it slices and plants with no problems. All the best to you.
The corn 🌽will love the Clover if it can jump up above it !! That clover ☘️will pump Nitrogen into the growing corn and suppress the weeds 👍🏼👍🏼
That's what we're all hoping for! We'll know next year how well it worked. All the best to you.
Mark, love it! You’re a great lab for the rest of us. I think you are exactly right about several things:
1. Drills (I rent a no-till drill) were a game changer for germination in my sandy soil, it’s amazing.
2. Weed control is essential and I learned that from seeing a spot you missed with herbicide last year. I also thought my crop would outcompete weeds, wrong! I’m spraying for now and it makes the diff. I don’t have a crimper either.
3. Three years in (3 falls and 3 springs) and each successive crop has been better than its predecessor, so I’m making progress. Soil is getting darker and improving.
4. I started no-till with my first fall crop being broadcasted, no bueno. Also, my first couple of summer crops dried up and died, the soil had no cover and it dried out quickly.
You are a few years ahead of us, but it’s a fun journey and I like the way you scientifically think. My other challenges are different: 1) yaupon is a woody weed that makes either a closed canopy forest impassable or a pasture is overcome and useless, 2) feral hogs love my food plots, and 3) neighbors graze their pastures down to nothing, so their cows break in and have at least partially ruined my fall/winter crop each year - can’t wait to see what an unmolested fall crop looks like.
I have also experimented with planting much more than the recommended amount of seed, and I like the results so far.
Keep it coming!
Hey Curt, you make me thankful that my only problem is controllable weeds! Yaupon sounds awful, and feral hogs......ugh. All the best to you.
Yea..I’m gonna start disking and plowing again before my corn. So every third year will get plowed….Im gonna be a partially no till now. Main chemistry..cleth, buytrac, gly, s metolachlor
We're all figuring out what works for us, and we're all different. I know a few other guys following the channel that are doing the same thing, tried strict no-till but went back to tilling, but at a much lesser degree. All the best to you.
Is Deer gro plot start really a lime alternative? My USDA office says no. Deer GRO is calcium chloride, lime is calcium carbonate. True liquid lime, is made of calcium carbonate correct? Why are youtubers promoting a product that is not really benefiting the soil? Can you do a video explaining the difference between calcium chloride and calcium carbonate(lime). Ive heard calcium chloride is used on highways as a brine since it don't freeze, as well as in tires.. I'd like to use liquid lime, but feel I've been tricked by false marketing and people getting paid lots of $$ to promote a product that really is not beneficial to my soil and food plots.
Good idea. Give me a few weeks to put something together. Thanks for the idea, all the best to you.
2-4-DB will target weeds in clover plots, without harming clover, if that helps. Looking forward to this, just drilled 3 acres of clover mix this weekend, and have been beating the idea of later forage soybeans drilled into clover.
Hey Adam, YES, this helps a lot, thank you. If the clover plots get weedy, I'll be checking into this. Sounds like we are on the same path. All the best to you.
Milestone will fry thistle
Hey Scot, thanks. I'll have to look into this one. All the best to you.
Greens and grains. Sounds dynamite
Hey Sean, agreed! All the best to you.
@theback40 mark, how can I private message you? I have several questions.
Hey Nicholas, markvwal@gmail.com. All the best to you.