Ups & Downs From Star Trek: Picard 2.4 - Watcher
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Cetacean Observations: Guinan's car plate reads S02 E01 which is the episode in which she's introduced in both TNG and PIC
I can't actually check if your observation is true but I'm putting my good faith in it lol
That's some top notch Cetacean Observations 👍
I went back and checked: 39m37s. Nice catch!
Holy heck that's a deep cut
@Federico Marin well spotted, what a legend 😎👍
Also, when Picard engaged the cloaking device, who all screamed out when he activated it, “alright everybody remember where we parked!”
Gukty as charged
for me it was another eye roll moment.
Was really hoping for that call back.
Yup. For me, from the moment they talk about performing a slingshot maneuver around the sun this season has had a huge ST4 vibe to it.
Also, throwing in the bus punk with an updated song was cheeky and absolutely brilliant.
I screamed ‘why have you only just turned it on?’
Is everyone missing the fact that Guinan called Orla Brady’s character a Supervisor, Gary Seven was Supervisor 194, and he traveled around in a portal with blue mist… Which is what happened to Picard when Brady‘s character put her hand on his shoulder and they vanished into a portal. Why are people thinking this is anything but Gary Sevens people?
Sir, you just blew my mind!
Really hope there is a “Gary Seven” time in.
It was originally intended to be a new series when the character was introduced in the original, but didn’t pan out.
Damn. I missed all the TOS references...except the bus sequence. Im getting old lol.
Came to make the same observation. Was not disappointed!
Dang it...yeah...blew my mind, too. and I love that episode and always wished that spinoff had materialized.
She didn’t recognize him because right now, the active timeline is where General Picard never met her. She has those “echoes” exactly because this history isn’t right. She SHOULD have met him, but didn’t. That’s the whole point.
Ah, that makes sense. I had taken it that him no longer being "human" so to speak, made her uncertain that he was the same Picard she had once met. However, you make an excellent point. This Guinan never met that Picard.
Timey wimey indeed.
Oh that’s a good point!
They were three days before timeline had changed. She should have remembered him from the 19th century.
@@brucehall7622 but the timeline change in Times Arrow originated from the future... a future that now isn't.
@@brucehall7622 Be fair, she drinks a lot and the Picard that walked into her bar is 35 years older and separated by century in time. I’m not terribly surprised she didn’t automatically recognize him.
My first thought when seeing the punk was 'holy hell, is that Ferrick?'
Good to see the man stayed loyal to his prunciples though.
Also good to see that didn't mean he hadn't matured! Somehow that's a very Trek character moment
Picard & company jumped back from a future that had no federation into *its* past: This is a reality in which times arrow never happened. Guinan doesn't recognize Picard because she hasn't met him. She reacts to his name because she knows the Watcher has an interest. At least, that's how I read the situation.
She also remembers him from the other timeline as an echo.
@UCPcscFIdADbdj1xgogSDpyQ But the time travel in Times Arrow happens after the divergence point. It hasn't happened, so it can't effect the past.
Thank you, I thought that as well was hoping other people would catch on!
This is exactly how I see this
How does the Punk on the bus remember getting Vulcan neck pinched by Spock though?
Seeing the punk on the bus after all this time just killed me. Loved that call back!
Makes me wonder if he knows in some odd way that they’re from the future 🤣
It’s been 38 years and he’s still riding the bus listening to loud punk music annoying others?
That was awesome !!! I nearly fell from my Sofa ^^
@@kkehoe5 Makes perfect sense to most people from SF and LA. ; )
BEST. CAMEO. EVER.
Wasn't Guinan's semi-recognizing Picard's name explained as something like an echo from the correct timeline which, as an El-Aurian, Guinan is sensitive to? We've already seen this trait in TNG.
Yeah, she specifically had a reaction there and they named it a "time echo" or something like that. Not sure why Sean didn't take that into account why she chose to help him after he told her his name.
I was just about to post exactly that once I had worked out the timey convolutions. I also think Sean dropped the ball there.
I thought it was the fact that she was El-Aurian PLUS the events that transpired in the Nexus….
@@michaelsmith4904 the show didn't mention the nexus
@@michaelsmith4904 the nexus connection to her time sensitivity is a long fan rumor that was never confirmed, and specifically contradicted in this episode.
Old punks never die.
They just cameo on Star Trek.
….and comply with 7
Resistance was futile
also in the MCU, see spider-man do flip
My favorite Vorta!
This! This is why we respect our elders; stay classy, Granny G. ✌🏽
Kirk Thatcher, who played the punk, was also a producer on Star Trek IV: The One With The Whales
He also performed the song.
One you missed. When Raffi seems to think Seven won't be able to drive the police car she says. "You can pilot a starship but you can't drive a.." In the "Star Trek: Enterprise" episode "Carpenter Street," when Archer and T'Pol steal a car and the Captain appears to be having trouble getting it started, T'Pol asks "Have you ever driven a vehicle from this era?" to which Archer replies, "I can pilot a starship."
Or the TOS episode where Kirk has issues operating a Clutch and Spock states a similar question.
if Children in movies can drive cars then by entertainment logic its possible she can. But I call BS Seven would be trying to press the dashboard as thats all she's ever know she wouldn't think to put a key in the ignition or enter a card and change gears and stuff. So much nonsense lol
@@laurarules3642 Also, where did Rafi learn to use a QWERTY keyboard?
@@Tootle222 It looks like she took the standard "Hack into any computer system in 3 seconds" class at the Academy.
Its also a reference to the STV episode Alice where B'Elanna tells Tom that if she can pilot a starship she can definetely drive a car
I love how sassy the Borg Queen is in the last couple episodes.
Agnes is sassier! 😍😍
The woman with the book at the end is identified by Amazon XRay as Renee Picard. I assume this is who the Watcher is supposed to be keeping an eye on and Guinan recognised the name from that.
Also she mentions that the Watchers are also known as Supervisors which is what Gary Seven was in Assignment: Earth.
It's not cannon anyway so doesn't matter
@@laurarules3642 - Assignment Earth? Yeah, Paramount considers it very much canon.
the portal in which Picard and Laris transported is totally similar to Supervisor's portal in Assignment: Earth. so, that's it
Going back and looking at it, sure looks to me like she's drinking tea, hot.
@@agripinoduarte OMG! Yes it is!
Guinan - "You're looking for a Supervisor, otherwise known as a Watcher."
Gary Seven was Supervisor 194
My first thought when I saw them disappear in a door shaped portal was Gary Seven. As in maybe the watchers are Supervisors from Gary Seven's planet. He had a door shaped transporter.
I think visual effects artist get lazy and copy from each other. That looked more like the TVA transporter from Loki.
They called themselves supervisors. It’s connected to assignment earth.
And the 'blue smoke chamber' effect Picard and the Watcher disappeared in, was identical to Gary Sevens transport chamber in Assignment: Earth (aka the "Blue Smoke Express" referred to in the Khan prequel books)
I've been considering them as candidates since we first heard the term watchers. It's looking more likely now.
ICONIANS
You also skipped over the fact that Brian Quinn goes by “Q” on the show impractical jokers. Which I think is fun considering Guinan hates Q but gives her dog to a different “Q”
Hahaha! Brilliant observation! Didn't even clock that! 👏👏👏🖖
Wondered how many people would spot Q2? 🤣
Why does everyone seem to think Guinan is basically a Time-Lord these days? "Oh maybe she went back to SF AFTER these events?" "Maybe she doesn't experience time linearly?" "She can change her appearance!" No, they just control if they experience age at a "normal" pace or not.
As for why she doesn't know who Picard is properly and that Q "doesn't change the timeline for 3 days"...they CAME from that timeline so that change has already happened. If they had arrived from the "standard" Federation time then she'd recognise him. Just because the change doesn't happen for 3 days NOW doesn't mean the future isn't already set until, that's why they need to undo it.
I don't think that deaging Guinan was the problem - more deforming Whoopie's body and her current health. She was in 2021 recovering from sciatica so she was not very mobil at that time. And to do a deepfake and to place her deaged face on a younger black actress's body seems something what she wouldn't prefer either. In my opinion she would like for newer actresses to shine now as well and is happy enough with the cameo which was given.
Also deep fake works when there’s minimal dialogue and a need for acting. Young Guinan’s scenes were pretty drama-heavy. Deep fake on this would have been uncanny valley
Either way, a subtle treat...
Well put. She's passed the point in her career where she would be anything but happy for the young actress.
If deepfaking was affordable and feasible they would have done it. .. they did Deepfake Q. but only for about two seconds before going with the Q wants to be fair excuse.
I prefer that anti-Semites don't appear in a STAR TREK series, considering the underlying message that they try to go for. So, everyone is happy.
Laris was never a Romulan. She has always been a watcher, and modifies her appearance to watch over JLP in his later years so he’d be alive to save the universe from the ubersynths.
This is exactly what I thought!
That's an idea!!!
Damn, that’s better than what actually happened 🤣
I was amused to hear that the event that changes the future occurs on April 15th, which happens to be my birthday! I'll be turning 59 in 2024. ;)
Here was a down for me: Raffi uses her tricorder to track Rios’ comm badge to the clinic, but neither she nor Seven thinks to ask why his comm badge is there while he isn’t, i.e. maybe we shouldn’t leave this 24th century tech lying around in a 21st century medical clinic.
BINGO! what if THAT is the reason the timeline is changed!? Like, someone tampers with it and alters the timeline?? They keep making a big deal about any little change could drastically alter the future. What if that's it?
Kinda disappointed that you didn't pick up on the connections to the TOS episode Assignment: Earth. The Watchers also call themselves Supervisors and "Laris'" transportation effect was very similar to the transporter in Assignment: Earth
Holy crap your right. I cant i believe I didn't but two and two together.
Picard sounding British never bothered me at all, because it was supposed to be 400 years in the future, on a united Earth. Data even says early on that the French language is obscure, meaning not many people speak it anymore. It looks like the Federation centered on English. The closest native English speaking country to France is the UK, so it makes sense they would have that accent.
Picard speaks neutral English. Without accent.
That is quite an important point.
French, AKA "some insane, dead language" in Futurama.
@@markrtoffeeman I assume Picard comes from a more traditional family that values their ancestry and ancestral language (French), but they still grew up speaking English (in the Federation), while learning "obscure" French on the side. He wouldn't have an accent in that case. This fits exactly with what both Picard and Data say in TNG season 1.
@@markrtoffeeman Id say that even if french had fallen into obscurity, the accent is not going to vanish and it would mostly stay the same.
@@ViroVV Accent's don't stay the same. They just don't.
Remember, the difference between Picard's time and ours is about the same as the difference between our time and the British colonizing America. Americans don't speak with a British accent anymore.
How do you miss the fact that the woman in the end is reading a Dixion Hill Mystery?
I’m going with 10 forward in the past being a deliberate change Q made to help Picard, despite the hostile history there. Remember this a Q made world not a simple prime timeline time travel. That also explains why picard was not recognized from her past and could potentially explain why she has become so cynical towards humanity. Q may have changed her life to be more hard on her, slowly torturing her and breaking her optimism.
...or they did a bad job.
She doesn't recognise Picard from the past because in this timeline, General Picard didn't travel back in time and meet Samuel Clements or Madame Guinan. So, from her perspective, she'd never meet him before. That event did not occur in her personal experience. It only occurred in Picard's because he's from a different timeline.
@@CorvusBelli01 If it were the same timeline, they could pick up Data's head, take a neutron, and bring him back!
She doesn't recognize Picard because in this reality he never went back in time to meet her in the 1800's.
@@CorvusBelli01 - 🤔 Didn't think about that. It would be a great explanation for Guinan not knowing Picard...
Cetacean Observation: The watcher's (which Guinan also calls supervisors) transport being a rectangular smoke effect looks the same as Gary Seven in Assignment: Earth
You missed the reference to the Watcher as a “supervisor” a la Gary 7. Hey with Seven fitting in so we’ll into the 21st century, wouldn’t she make a great watcher type? Annika 7? There’s my spinoff idea lol
Also, she steps into a door-shaped smoky portal at the end just like Gary Seven used. She is a supervisor.
That’s clever!
Oooohhh, Seven and Seven!
The fact that they got Lea Thompson to direct, so far, back to back episodes thus far says a lot in terms that how much confidence they have in her and her abilities at the helm.
They got Marty McFly’s mom to direct the time travel episodes. There is something insanely Meta and Fourth Wall breaking going on there.
They should rethink that confidence.
Shatner should troll his fans at an event like this and come out dressed as TJ Hooker. Lol
I'm about to blow your minds....
Kirk Thatchers "punk" was also in Spider-man Homecoming and Kevin Feige confirmed it was the same character from Star Trek 4 because he liked him. So is Star Trek Picard technically in the MCU ?
*Everything* is in the MCU.
This idea occurred to me while I was watching this episode and I think it’s pretty cool. So in the next gen episode Q Who, we see that Guinan and Q know each each but it isn’t explained how. So since both Q and Guinan are in Star Trek Picard this season, what if Guinan and Q have a scene together in an episode and this is where Guinan first meets Q and this is how she knows him in the episode Q Who. So the whole thing comes full circle.
Q also described Guinan as "dangerous" in that episode, and whereas that episode is in Q's past, keep in mind the Q don't experience time linearly.
This was definitely the conclusion I was drawing.
That would be pretty cool. But if that were the case, wouldn't she have remembered Picard from their meeting in "Time's Arrow"? Time travel always confuses me.
@@dennisjcny Time’s Arrow hasn’t happened bc this future was violent Picard, so it needs to get fixed for peaceful Picard to go back. Then, this timeline won’t have occurred, so it can’t be where she meets Q :(
Perhaps Guinan was supposed to leave Earth while it falls into WWIII & the change is Picard convinces her to stay leading to her being the Impish danger.
The reason Guinan doesn't recognize Picard is that since Starfleet doesn't exist, Picard never went back to 1893, so Guinan never met Picard.
That might be the most logical and probably correct understanding. Thanks for sharing, that bit drove me nuts.
but how does the punk chap remember the vulcan nerve pinch
So her statement in "Time Arrow" if you don't go back we'll never meet - is apparently true.
As the Chief once commented “I hate temporal mechanics!”
I thought when Guinan recognized Picard’s name, it was because she recognized it from something the Watcher told her, not that she remembered him from “Time’s Arrow.”
I think so, too. She knows something from the watcher and maybe "the Picard" is a name, which might be important for all timelines...
@@Solecism101 right because he is "The Picard"
The fact that they didn't feel they had to overly telegraph the fact that Picard's ancestors went to England was a great touch. Unfortunately, that's where things not being "overly telegraphed" ends.
However, the script makes it sound like the tunnels themselves "went to England" Needed one more word like, "Eventually, they went to England"
@@jasonmeltzer4501 An early Channel Tunnel 🙂
My theory as for why guinan doesnt know picard is that
Since the future has changed general picard from the confederation wouldnt have been back in time during times arrow
So guinana never couldnt have met picard
But they are in the past, 3 days before the event that changed the future, so Guinan should know Picard..That future hasnt changed yet..
@@chizeru37 the futurw has already changed
Otherwise picard wouldnt havencome from the confederation future
Picard from this future cant have gone to meet guinan as times arrow never happened
But are the writers this clever or are we just seeing things?
I got to have faith the writers have done some homework and at least know about “Time’s Arrow”. Hard to say if that took place or not in Q’s new world. I can understand and agree with both arguments on if it happened or not.
It's true, holy shit, they are that clever:
a representative for Paramount Plus did provide a rather head-squeezing answer from Matalas on this question: “Guinan does not recognize Picard in 2024. Fans might be briefly confused by this because she did meet him on Earth in 1893 in ‘The Next Generation.’ The reason that she doesn’t recognize Picard is that he’s traveled from a future in which Starfleet doesn’t exist, and therefore the whole thing with Data’s head in ‘Time’s Arrow’ never happened.” In other words, the alternate reality Picard was too busy conquering and never traveled back in time to 1893, so he never met Guinan then.
Actually returning to left behind future equipment, in The Voyage Home Checkov left his communicator, ID and phaser with the navel officers in the Navy battleship Enterprise in the 20th century, no harm seemed to come from that.
Only one slight quibble, It was an aircraft carrier, not a battleship.
Another explanation that I considered for the differences in Guinan are that potentially this is a younger Guinan, and at some point she wound up traveling back in time to the late 19th century, which is where we see her in Time’s Arrow.
As for the “El-aurians can choose to age” part, I took that to mean that she can stop aging, not that she can de-age.
I think Guinan decided to help upon hearing the name Picard because there is someone important in the current time period named Picard, and Guinan knows the watcher is watching that person. I believe it will be the person Q is failing to snap.
Missed Cetacean Observation: The Cloaking sound effect when La Sirena cloaked.
It was only beaming them out. It isn't like they gave out the formula for transparent aluminum.
And Girati said, "Good now you're in sync." See my comment below about synchronicity being the recurring theme here.
I kept waiting for Seven to say Tom Paris taught her to drive.
Same here.
Q changed the timelime to confederation so no federation and Seven was never a Borg so never meet Tom ! ;0)
@@lesphinxinfotech9180 Q did not change the timeline, Picard does. Q made it so they retained the memories from the original timeline.
@@jessetaggart5573 yes your right about the retained memories... i thought about that later :0) my bad :0)
The Kirk Thatcher cameo definitely was laugh out loud material.
We all knew what he was remembering when he clutched his neck lol.
“Ouch!”
@@RandomYT05_01 Vulcan neck pinched might not be as harmless as we all thought (at least not on XX Century medicine). That guy must have had a sore neck for a LONG time, LOL.
You miss Guinan's license plate on her car S02 E01, season 2, episode 1 Guinan's first episode.
I was so hoping Seven would have made some remark about Tom Paris' holodeck programs and driving. Also, a little more reference to Time's Arrow would have been nice, like a line about Picard being early or something.
Q changed the timelime to confederation so no federation and Picard never goes back in time to meet Guinan in Time's Arrow.
Did anyone catch the advertisement behind the green bench as Picard is being led to the Watcher … it reads “Strange New Worlds”. :)
Yeah it’s the Europa mission!
With the cloaking device, maybe I'm wrong, but given the TOS episode "The Enterprise Incident" where a cloaking device was stolen, it does seem to mainly be a separate unit to the main ship - as such, it is possible that it has it's own backup power source...
Also, in the DS9 episode where Quark and Rom are smuggling a cloaking device, they cloak it while they are moving it; implying that it has autonomous power.
also in Prodigy they said the Klingon cloaking device runs on chimerium. so, maybe???.....
So nice to see that guy learned from his experience with Spock lol
The only problem being he would never have met Spock as the federation never existed in this timeline, so Spock wouldn't have traveled in time back to the 80's.
Someone on Facebook pointed out that the “door” transporter/portal effect used by the Watcher/Supervisor is nearly identical to Gary Seven’s special effect from Assignment: Earth … and that his people are also called Supervisors. So the going theory is that this person is from Gary Seven’s species.
Love this idea... Gary Seven connection. Hopefully, there'll be a mild joke about 'Seven.'
Gary Seven's ' species' were humans......
When Guinan stated "Supervisors across the galaxy" (in so many words), I keyed in on Gary Seven.
@@entlim Gary Seven was a genetically engineered human who had an extra organ in his chest McCoy couldn't identify.
More like this person is from Gary Seven's organization, The Aegis
Annika Hansen has never been a Borg drone (though all our heroes this season recall their true universe events), therefore has a mellow and more jovial personality, which she plays wonderfully. Additionally, the reason Guinan doesn't recall Picard is that in his time there isn't a Federation, therefore never had the TNG adventures, BUT that's not to say that there wasn't a Federation in Kirk's period. Unclear, but then again, Q's had a hand in all this as far as we know.
I wouldn't say that. It's obvious Q let the gang keep their original memories and personalities, so their changed backgrounds are irrelevant to their personalities.
Seven has all her memories as a Borg. You may have missed that part last week ( she mentioned her childhood as a Borg). She acts differently because the cerebral implant is missing in this time line
and Q's "hand" is clearly not working....per the closing scene.
10 Forward was a shifted idea from Guinan’s future self who worked in 10 forward in the future, sent back to her past self’s mind. You can see her use this power again when she suddenly recognizes Picard’s name from her future mind. So I don’t think it was meant as a corny reference joke.
Great point
This is what occurred to me too
That's a very contrived concept.
@@AntoekneeDE Its really not. She didn't just name her bar 10-forward...she found a street called Forward Street to make it work, conveniently not some suburb or ghetto. Its so contrived and cringe.
Well another missed point is that there are other 'Deck Forward' bars, so it is quite possible that 10 Forward has some deeper meaning to her hence why she chose that specific bar because I believe we do know she chose that specific one with Picard. I do like the theory that all this is time shifted and that she never met Picard in the past due to the future track we are currently on not including that event.
Beaming out in broad daylight in a car with tinted windows isn't going to change the timeline. Whether the officers saw the beam out or not and found the car empty, it cannot influence future events.
Deaging Whoopi just wouldn't have worked with the scenes they wrote. Having Spiner appear young in short scenes where he just stands/lies/sits is one thing, but the energetic Guinan that actually moves around, touches things and is seen at multiple places just isn't possible to deage without Disney money. (and even Mar🐫 looked uncanny in Boba Fett)
The “you can’t move while I beam you” thing I thought was a callback to the scene in Star Trek 2009 on Vulcan, damaged transporters may have trouble with that.
"I can do zat! I can do zat!"
Another reason they needed to stop which should have been mentioned: if the car is still moving when they beam out, who's to say it doesn't cause serious damage and possibly kill someone before it stops?
I watched this episode during my study hall at school, and I laughed so hard at the bus scene that I had to step outside. Well played, Picard.
The bar on the Enterprise D being named after a bar in LA?
Yes, Sean, absolutely 100% yes.
El-Aurians experience time differently than humans do. She knew that was the place for her without really knowing.
That's how I took it. Some kinda comsic synchronicity.
I assumed it to mean that she loved her bar so much that when she got onto the Enterprise, found Deck Ten, bought out the forward section, or whatever they do in the 24th Century and was then able to use the same name.... LOL.
Guinan not recognizing Picard, but recognizing the name could also be that she was told (by the watcher?) to listen for specific (sur)names.
I had a an inkling about what the watcher was the moment it was first mentioned. El Aurians are often called 'listeners'. So when I heard the term 'watcher', I immediately felt it must be related to the El Aurians. Maybe not they themselves, but at the very least a species in the same ball park.
Anyways, that moment was an 'up' for me, and certainly not a 'down''.
The girl reading the book at the end is a Picard. That is who the Watcher is watching and why Guinan is familiar with the family name but not able to recognise Jean Luc.
I think Laris is a supervisor like Gary Seven, at least that's what I got when she and Picard were whisked away. I just watched Assignment Earth a few days ago.
It's a shame that pilot never made it to series. Robert Lansing was a great screen presence, and Terri Garr is always a delight.
Maybe Laris is Isis, who was disguised as Gary’s cat?
I was seriously waiting for 7 to Vulcan Nerve Pinch that guy…..really got my hopes up 🤣 The parallel was a great nod to Star Trek IV though
Not a parallel, it’s literally the same dude! How epic was that??! 😂😂😂
@@locomadman Kirk Thatcher still has some involvement with the Star Trek universe. He narrated the animated Short Trek episode with the DOT.
You weren't the only one waiting for it to happen lol. It was awesome to see Kirk reprise his role
Your face when you realize the com badge is still at the clinic, and I think I watching the ready room Will Wheaton said the reason the different Guinan, was all due to the time split and that she was suffering the sickness due to that, which is why she was vomiting in the one scene in the bar, and Picard’s reference to the time sickness. Yet, again your amazing banter, and break down brought joy to my screen!
She only suffers from the time sickness after Picard intentionally causes it by speaking something back to her she said to him in the future.
This was a rough episode to get through.
Edit: the Picard episode, not this TH-cam episode
Floyd's barbershop is in the TOS episode because it is taped on the Mayberry set in Hollywood
The bus scene was such a stupid throwback, but I laughed anyway.
14:08 Down #3. You kinda answered your own question there. "We're never gonna mention that again" might as well be a direct quote from every cop on scene. First butterfly in that causal loop is administrative leave pending psychiatric evaluation before return to active duty.
If it's not the same Guinan, it could mean that Picard opening up is why she chose to help, or it could mean she recognized the name for a different reason.
What if a Picard is who the watcher is there to keep an eye on?
Like the TOS episode strongly referenced so far, I believe Rio's Doctor friend must die for the timeline to get back on track. Just a theory
How does The Punk on the Bus remember getting Vulcan neck pinched by Spock but Guinan doesn't remember Picard?
The probe would still have come, necessitating the same solution. Though in the changed timestream, it would have been Kirk who attacked him, probably by choking him. The Vulcan Nerve Pinch isn't painful, it just knocks you out.
Was that supposed to be the same character from the voyage home ?
@@laurarules3642 yep, was the same actor i think.
@@DJParticle Nice, I like that.
@@timclarke2661 actually Kirk Thatcher is a producer (he was a producer on The Voyager home).
In the episode “Ensign Ro” Guinan is talking to her about once she had gotten into trouble and that she might still be there if it wasn’t for one person, referring to Picard. Could this be the “time” she was referring too?
With the future change preventing this Picard from going back to the 19th century it wouldn't really make sense but seeing as this is new Trek, then probably.
The actor who played the punk on the pus was 24 years old in 1986 in Star Trek part 4 the Voyage Home and he is 60 in 2020 when the episode came out in our time.
OMG how did you miss Assignment Earth in CetObs? 😲
Nicely done. I wondered if anyone else caught that. The blue mist they disappeared into was a dead giveaway.
They probably didn't miss it, but left it out on purpose. :) A good way to drive up engagement for the TH-cam algorithm because half the fan-base will be commenting "how could you miss this?!". ;)
@@FiXato hmm, interesting. Yeah that could be definitely a reason. 👍🏻
No. She got his name from the watcher. She was told to be on the lookout for JLP. This timeline is the facist timeline, that Picard never met Guinan.
I find it very interesting Brian Quinn from Impracticality Jokers had a guest appearance. on the show he is nicknamed Q. Also, on Voyager, when the second Q boards Voyager wanting to die, Janeway calls him Quinn. I know its a stretch but I wonder if that is going anywhere…
Quinn-cidence?
You have to much hope and give too much credit to these hacks
What you typed here is smarter than the so called experts writing the show
Quinn here is playing the same character he played in 12 monkeys, and Macguyver. Dale
Quinn was on Earth in the 1800's
Guinan should have recognized Picard, they are 3 days before the change. They are not in an alternate reality, they are in the same timeline, so going to a point before whatever change the future has not happened that shows the original timeline still intact.
Got shivers when the realization hit that Q can't undo the change! A bit bummed about getting spoiled about the character Penelope Mitchell is playing via the Amazon X-Rey feature but still looking forward to see where the story goes from here!
I just assumed its because Q was following that woman at the end and naturally according to all modern mainstream media all women are always far super, better and stronger and thats why all small fragile women work as bouncers at clubs and the best athletes
@@laurarules3642 Do you have anything better to do than troll the YT comments?
@@raze3297 making a comment in YT comments is trolling? plus, she rules dontcha know
@@GobelPaul No, she's conceited enough to think that she does, but she doesn't.
"Milk, chocolate, hot" young Picard ordering a hot chocolate
Okay, now I'm convinced. El-Aurian
s are Star Trek's Timelords
The whole leaving the police station sequence had me thinking like "Oh 7 is just gonna dumb this whole thing up."
so Terry Matalas said Guinan didn't know Picard because the federation never existed hence Time's Arrow didn't happen but how did punk guy get nerve pinched by Spock?(i know it was a gag but still)
“I am told they are a sports ball team”
Might be my favourite thing I’ve ever heard on this channel 🤣
It has been theorised on another video that the watcher could be another Gary Seven. That is a fascinating theory.
Guinan can't remember Picard in this particular timeline, because he's coming from a future where he wasn't able to go back into the 19th century during the incidents at Devidia II meeting Guinian for the very first time.
The fact Guinan is "time sick" maybe let her choose the location at 10th Forward Ave long before she manage the bar at the 1701-D at Deck 10 forward ... because she now she will do later in time.
I love the tribute to Star Trek IV The Voyage Home! The Lakers are a Basketball Team. Aren't "The Watchers" from Marvel Comics?
The name thing makes me feel like she was willing to introduce the Watcher because it's Laris. And I fully expect that Guinan ends up transferred back to the 1800s and ages up to Whoopi.
That’s actually a good idea.
I'm so confused about something. So you explained away that it's a different timeline for Guinan's appearance and all. But in this timeline, Spock and the Punk still happened as in the Prime timeline for the Punk to remember the neck pinch and comply peacefully?
Wibbly wobbly timey Wimmy
Just a gag
It doesn’t technically have to have happened. It could be a coincidence. Also, in theory, Earth’s history changing wouldn’t have stopped the alien ship from trying to communicate with the dead whales such that time travel would still have been necessary to get whales from the past. So something similar could have happened in this timeline, even in the Confederation continuity.
“Yellow” traffic light means “go faster”. Homage to 1984’s movie “Starman”.
I was very bothered by the police car that Seven was in. The entire time they were in it they never turned on the lights. Ok that is fine. But when they got beamed out the lights were on. Bad continuity there in shots.
19:00 yep I laughed so hard. I knew it was coming but that throat check had me laughing hard
So the San Francisco Guinan is the guinan from Picard earlier in her life. Later on she goes back to San Francisco. That’s why she asks Picard about the first time they met. Remember she says it was at her lowest, this is the time she was referencing back then.
El-Aurians have a strange relationship with time and memory, so it's possible that when Guinan was looking for a venue to set up a bar, that she had a great "intuition" about that address. ("10 Forward St" triggered non-linear good vibes from her later experiences on the Enterprise.
Computerized aging down looks awkward. I'm glad they went with a new actress for young Guinan.
Absolutely and woopie never looked that good !!
Picard didn't say they had no power he said he was waiting for the Life-support to be repair you get a down.
Guess it makes sense that Guinan doesn't recognize Picard due to the timeline shift...but that needed to be acknowledged on screen, Picard should have initially been surprised Guinan didn't know him already, and then quickly realized why, otherwise it feels like a MASSIVE error!
But we all know why she didn't recognise him and any exposition to explain that would be pointless to regular viewers and just downright confusing to people that haven't seen TNG.
Same reason with Seven not name dropping Paris potentially helping her learn to drive. Voyager viewers will make the (potential) link by themselves. People that have never seen Voyager will be all "who the heck is Tom?"
Times arrow?
The reason that she doesn't recognize Picard is that he's traveled from a future in which Starfleet doesn't exist, and therefore the whole thing with Data's head in 'Time's Arrow' never happened in the new “confederation”
In the original timeline, there was an event where Q lost his powers but was given them back after interacting with the enterprise crew. Assuming that was not a ruse, could Q accidentally un-Q himself?
They have established that Q can voluntarily "Renounce" their powers he offered that as an option in Q Who and Quenn did it as well. they even mentioned that they can be forceably removed as they implied with Amanda.
Just for timeline placement sake this Ep is set April 12th 2024,..Past Tense DS9 two parter with the sanctuary districts takes place starting on September 1st Leading up to the Bell Rights September 4th 2024, So Picard takes place before the Bell Riots. Not Sure what that means lol
How about Raffi taking her phaser, but Rios didn't...so that he could get detained by ICE. Also it makes sense for Raffi's character that she'd break that rule.
Up's - Patrick Stweart. Down's- The entire show
I think they just screwed up and forgot about Time's Arrow
Don't forget in this timeline starfleet doesn't exist due to Q and Picard doesn't go back in time to meet G
I agree.
Kirk Thatcher also added spikes to his collar, possibly to keep anyone from touching his neck.
I assumed the younger Guinan was a Guinan who'd visited earth in the 21st century when she was young, perhaps later return to her planet and then later as TNG age Guinan visited earth in the 19th century. Alternatively it's the same Guinan and they chose a younger actress but this Guinan didn't encounter Picard in the 19th century as Q changed time, so Starfleet didn't exist and Picard didn't go back to the 19th century and meet Guinan.
...or they did a bad job.
The name "10 Forward" always sounded weird to me on TNG. Finally they explained it! ;)