cloudgirl150 Viscous is a wonderful book! There is going to be a hardcover re-release of the book with a new cover in May. Also the sequel to Viscous called Vengeful comes out in September. 😊
I really liked your explanation of villain vs antagonist. Not all antagonists are villains, because someone who opposes the protagonist might not necessarliy be evil. In my WIP, the antagonist is a relatively good guy. He's smart, charming and has the capability of loving others. However, his motivation and his own personal goals are what make him the antagonist in my story because it personally affects my main protagonist and her friends negatively. Ayyy loved the Avatar the Last Airbender reference ;) Hands down one of the best antagonists ever!
+Jordan Harvey Indeed. It is possible to have MCs/protagonists that are villains. And the antagonist (justice league, police, etc) opposes the Villain Protagonist. Villains can be antagonists. Not all antagonists are villains. It depends on your Protagonist and their goals BTW, Great Video!
Villains are like fine vintage wines, well-crafted, aged, and carefully made. Heroes are like minivans, if they brake you just replace them. My personal advice is that it pays great dividends for the villain to occasionally win. Doing so keeps them as valid threats.
I agree with you on intelligence being terrifying but I personally feel that the best villains make you believe in them. there's a quote somewhere that says every villain believes that they are the good guys. and that's what I believe makes a perfect villain because to them they are in the right and if they can make you believe they are right as well, it completely makes you question everything that you believe and everything that you stand for and should also do so for the protagonist. so was villains that almost brainwash you while you're fighting no matter how things end the villain still wins and that's scary as hell to me.
+Jordan Harvey I actually fangirl squeed when I realized that you're the one that responded so quickly and my boyfriend didn't believe me until I showed him. but yeah the actually scary villains was something that made me not respect a lot of Disney villains when I was a kid. I like villains that terrify you and demand respect without actually demanding it verbally.
For sure. Actions definitely speak louder than words in this case, or I suppose you could say "show, don't tell." And I try to respond to all my comments, but yours was a really good point :)
perfect lol although i would say Zhao and Zuko are more ant1 and ant2 , Azula is completely aligned with her father making her a villain as well. Zhao at least had
In my current Urban Fantasy series the criminal mastermind I created is basically a mix of the Latiyah from Queen of the Damned and Professor James Moriarty from Sherlock Holmes. She's terrifying with her powers and even has fun doing what she does. But she has a system: she never reveals herself until she knows what she's dealing with. Thus she uses her powers to control other people, seeing other places through their eyes. Once she knows what she's dealing with, she finally shows herself. Her ultimate reason for doing what she does is because she doesn't want humans and monsters to forget that there's ALWAYS someone out there who's scary and is a reason why you should be scared of the dark. A common thing she has with the protagonists is that they both like using their powers, but while the protagonists believe in using their power to help people, she believes in using her power to inspire fear.
Batman is order and control. The joker was chaos and freedom. Batman invaded personal privacy with sensors and ignored national boarders with extrodinary rendition. Joker didn't value human life because he was convinced that humans don't value human life. That civilization is a joke because were all animals. Or, a more interesting interpretation, he was trying to make the people of Gotham realize their common humanity and regain it. Good stuff though, just my personal opinion.
I think that technique is called Four Corner Opposition. I found out about it from a video I watched I while back and I adore using it. It's made it so much easier for me to come up with villain characters.
Found the credits for the technique! The technique is called "four corner opposition" which John Truby wrote about in his book The Anatomy of Story. The technique is also found in Robert McKee's book "Story". Thank you to everyone who helped track this down! Another video that breaks down this Four Corner Opposition technique is this one: www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-PfE...
I did like Jordan's comments on humanizing the villains and giving them sympathizing reason for their actions. I think there could be something quite harrowing about that. I'm into psychological stuff at the moment. Some of it is very dark. The humanizing factor has inspired many ideas. Especially, for my latest creation.
Great vid. I agree with a lot of this. This is fantastic advice. Loved the Avatar reference, btw. I totally agree, Zuko is a fantastic example of a redeeming antihero since he has conflict and bounces back and forth a lot, having a compelling arc. To add on to this, for me, it depends on a lot on the story you're trying to tell. But in general, for villains that are more "redeemable" or antiheroes in general, then it's probably better to humanise them by explaining their actions, but not excusing them and give them some good traits for the audience to latch onto while having some mystery to them and room to grow or devolve (Zuko, Light Yagami, Loki in the Marvel movies, the whole cast of Six of Crows, the characters in the Game of Thrones series, etc). But for the "Final Boss" that's more in the shadows and a looming threat, then they should be more mysterious while also having a strong, understandable motive and while challenging the protagonist (The Fire Lord from Avatar, Saruman, etc). However, in cases when the villain is less mysterious and shown a lot more, I think the villain should have a defined, memorable personality on top of having strong motives and challenging the heroes (The Joker, Amon, Kuvira, Darth Vadar, the Darkling from the Grisha series, Count Olaf, most of the animated Disney villains...except the 2010s ones, etc). Otherwise, if the villain doesn't stand out personality wise, the villain will come off as bland and make the story a bit weaker because of it. Though, you do see "Weaker Villain Syndrome" in a lot of Disney movies post 2010, Marvel movies (though, not so much on Netflixs since Kilgrave is a fantastic villain and is legit terrifying) and even in the Voltron reboot (since Zarkon is a bland villain. To be fair, Lotor is a vastly better villain/morally grey character because he does have a more defined personality...though this motives are rather vague). This is another area I've seen lacking in YA in general since I find a lot of the time the villains are either slapped on at the last second (Twilight, Court of Thrones and Roses, etc) or they are completely forgettable. The only exceptions I can think of are the Grisha series, Six of Crows, and The Hunger Games. Hell, something that I never seen YA tackle is a more antihero like protagonist that has a more cunning and clever personality while also staying somewhat heroic. The only examples I can think of is Artemis Foul and Kaz from Six of Crows. And the former isn't even YA! I would love to see more morally grey characters and better villains in YA! Speaking of that, one video idea in general, though you don't have to do this, obviously, is maybe a list of tropes and ideas you wish were in YA books more. For me, it would be antihero protagonists, morally grey characters, stronger villains, female friendships, MCs with more defined personalities, etc.
Carissa Carlson Thanks so much for this comment! You’re definitely right about having memorable personalities. You can have so much fun with villains if you commit and really embrace them. And thanks for the video request, I’ll definitely consider doing that!!
One thing I would like to add to the "morally grey" villain list for YA is Percy Jackson--not to mention that almost every antagonist in there is stronger than him, but he has friends and street smarts, etc. And, because he fights gods (that are said in some book or other that they are never in the wrong...) he is against supposedly impossible odds, and, if not for the people around him, he would be deader than the deadest dead by now.
I, for instance, have an antagonist who works for my main villain, she has the same goals in general and that's why she follows him, but while the villain thinks that casualties and sacrifices are necessary, she wants to prevent them just like the hero. I noticed that she fits perfectly into the chart
I disagree with your stating that you should pretty much always stay away from the reds on that line thing you showed. Either extreme can be effective if written well. Completely inhuman antagonists can work well in horror stories where he/she/it is meant to be only threatening rather than intriguing. An example of this I guess is slasher flics, but those can be hit or miss. But what about Steven King’s IT? That is a very long book which does sometimes include Pennywise’s point of view. Yet IT is driven only by its predatory nature and has no real values that oppose the hero’s except that they want to stay alive. IT’s origin is revealed to be a vague cosmic force, and we don’t get much more than that. Despite this, many find IT terrifying, and Pennywise could be considered an effective antagonist. The other extreme is where too much of the antagonist is revealed and they become nonthreatening. Though I can’t think of a specific example since I don’t read this kind of story very often, in theory a completely shown and understood antagonist works well in a tragedy. If the hero is only pitted against the villain because they disagree, and otherwise they are both fully fleshed-out and human, It can make the attacks they must carry out against each other all the more affecting and, for lack of a better word, tragic. This point is just a disagreement in ideology, and I really enjoyed your video.
On the humanization note there is also the option to make the antagonist/villain really relatable and freak out the reader by challenging their sense of moral stability. What if the villain is right is a terrifying thought because it makes one doubt some foundation of their existence.
Thanks for this great video! Thank God I have found you. I already watched your book reviews and was highly impressed by how understandable and well-thought your critiques are. Most BookTubers just claim it's a great story with great characters but never explain WHY. But you do explaining so well and contribute a lot to BookTube, so thank you :) I'm also an unpublished writer myself and found this video really helpful. Currently, I'm working on a Contemporary Drama novel about a boy with aggression problems and an traumatized girl with an eating disorder and how they help each other and - most importantly - themselves. Sure it's very difficult to use your cues inside a story where mostly the antagonists are the protagonists themselves because of their psychological issues but yet alone you showed me how much they can learn from each other and technically make the other's situation better or worse. Mainly because they deal with their issues and helplessness in completely different ways. So it even works out for Contemporary, even if the level is a little more complex. Thank you and have a nice day :) P.S. Avatar is my favourite TV show, too 💜 I think Azula will always be one of my favourite villains.
So glad this was helpful, and it's so nice to hear that you like my channel!! Good luck with your novel, it sounds like it's going to be really interesting!
Wondering if you could do a video on making a protagonist an ally? Like a "Redeeming the villain done right"? I'm thinking about a villain to be used in later books as an alley to an even bigger bad that the the villain would team up with (either directly or indirectly) the hero to fight against.
I actually really do like stories where it's not black and white about who the hero is and who the villain is though. Stories like that are very complex and exist in the moral grey area. They really make you think and challenge your beliefs about right and wrong. Books like Nothing Lasts Forever by Roderick Thorp and First Blood by David Morell really make you question who's right and who's wrong without any clear hints to a proper answer.
You can also see the shades of gray not all simple black and white in the Suspense Noir Movie Cape Far the remake which is vastly better than the Original Cape Fear because the Villain is a simple irredeemable Black Hat, the Hero has a perfect family and is a Simple White Hat Hero. Also Brooklyn''s Finest that has characters that aren't Black and White but shades of gray so you won't have any simple answers with this character is a hero and this character is a Villain. Most other Crime Drama movies it has simple the Villains are undeniably in the wrong also evil while the Heroes are in the right and good.
The king Meruem from Hunter x Hunter was an extremely well written and terrifying villain. Probably one of the most scary villains I have ever seen. He had morals that were opposite of the protagonist and it was clear why he had these morals. Hunter x Hunter is a really meaningful anime that has fleshed out side characters/mc and interesting villains/antagonists.b
The Four Cornered Technique is *exactly* what I've been looking for! Thanks, I love making stories, but rarely ever know how I want the Antagonists to be. This helps me sooo much! (Yay, with this I'll finally get somewhere!!)
I like Villains who believe they’re doing the right thing but are still pure evil. Examples: 1. Lex Luthor - Superman’s Archenemy Corporate Version/90s Superman Cartoon/World’s Finest Fan Film By Sandy Corolla). 2. Norman Osborn/Green Goblin - Spider-Man’s Archenemy (616 Version/90s Spider-Man Cartoon/Spider-Man 1). 3. Judge Claude Frollo - Disney’s The Hunchback of Notre Dame. 4. John Doe - Se7en. Villains who have no redeeming qualities but believe they are doing what they think is. Sort of like Hitler.
Its actually quite crazy how you can analyze an entire movie just based on four corner opposition. I was doing some charts and realized the movie Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice doesn't have four corner opposition. It not a complete square until about 90 minutes into the movie, then it drops a corner, and then brings in Wonder Woman and Doomsday and they simply did not fit in the square. John Truby's concept applies to all media, not just books and movies, which is amazing.
“Killer villain”, lol. Good call with Hans- I had forgotten about Inglorious Bastards; that was a damn intense villain, which was a bit jarring for the light-hearted feel of the film. Also, judging from that graph I want to read your book.
This helped me a lot. I also make my antagonist have a dream or goal and my protagonist works to achieve a close type of goal and the antagonist lashes out due to insecurities or to see who is best. They get personality and drama from the same plot point.
As always, great video!! I love villains, they're my favorite characters to look at in stories, and I think it's because they're so hard to write well, but when written well they're just so fascinating. So refreshing to see these more in-depth looks at storytelling on booktube, because while I do love a good book haul or wrap up, sometimes I want something a little more to sink my teeth into :)
Have you seen 11.22.63? I have a few critics to the series in general, but the relationship between Jake and Sadie was solid in my opinion and the ending stucked with me until today
Some of my favorite stories have both or all sides of the conflicts treated equally or at least close on the moral spectrum. It creates better tension as you have fondness for all characters. Having a villain most of the time means you know the heroes are going to win overall.
It depends, but that's definitely a good tactic :) I think writers should take a similar approach as more actors and treat characters with empathy, regardless on which side they fall in the story. That definitely helps keep morality on a bit more of a spectrum!
I was watching this movie that the villain act as the antagonist as well and this vid make me think about that movie.. I realized the story wouldn't as interesting without that strong villain character building. in fact I was like "ohh I know he's bad but he's just a lot more interesting than the protagonist"
It would be awesome if you had an in-depth analysis of villains to follow. Maybe go down a line of degrees in what was successful to not so much from the books you’ve read. This really helped me get some bearing on developing the villains in my own story so thanks!!! 🤓
An example of what you mentioned, using some Marvel characters. Hero: Spiderman, Villain: The Kingpin, Antagonist 1: The Punisher, Antagonist 2: The Wolverine. Spiderman and Kingpin are completely opposed, and want different things. Spiderman, Punisher, and Wolverine essentially want the same things, but strongly disagree on how to go about achieving them.
I utterly agree Jordan not all Antagonists are Bad Guys, they can oppose the Protagonists and prevent them from accomplishing their goal or goals which I've seen in the movies Mystery Alaska, Mighty Ducks 2, and Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure. Also most natural disaster movies including Twister, Volcano, etc that has a Tornado or something else create destruction and death but since the Volcano, Tornado, etc can't be anything but destructive those I would disagree with called Villains, and can easily be logically called Antagonists. A story won't be good or great without a Formidable Villain or Antagonist that is a good or great adversary because it's undramatic, unentertaining, uninteresting, and boring if persons have no doubt the protagonist is going to defeat the Villain or Antagonist. Good or great stories have good or great Villains that I recall with the book The Monkey's Raincoat a Mystery PI Book that I finished not that long ago, movies (2012) The Raven, Man of Steel, Seven, Doctor Strange the MCU Movie, The Rock, Spider Man Homecoming, Jaws, POTC Curse of the Black Pearl, Marked for Death, 48 Hours, Predator, The Dark Tower, etc. A Villain should have a plausible motive or motives otherwise it's lameass writing if the motive is being Evil because they're a Villain unless done right. The Best Villains usually believe that they are the good guys in the right using good methods to accomplish their goal or goals, or they believe that the ends justify the means to accomplish their goal or goals even though it freakin doesn't. For some plausible reason or reasons they believe they are the good guys in the right using just methods to accomplish their goals or they believe that the ends justify the means and can be Well Intentioned Extremists or AntiVillains which was shown in the 2 movies Black Panther, The Rock, X Men comics usually with Magneto, Sinestro the Yellow Lantern In Green Lantern Comic books that believes that the best and only way to create order is through fear and since he was able to create Order on his home planet with Fear and Tyranny it's plausible why he believes that creating Order through Fear is The Best for Creating order in the Universe, Kingpin in the Daredevil Netflix TV SHOW, etc. The Archenemy of 1 my Super Heroes is a Pure Evil Character no doubt done right, he has plausible motives for his nefarious actions, no doubt a Magnificent Bastard, is a Juggernaut with a terrifying terrific Appearance. I want to Own my Own Publishing Company that Would Mainly Publish Super Hero Comic books which is my career goal along with get my super hero comic books published. A Pure Evil Character for serious adult fiction can be great if done right. Clarence Boddicker is a Complete Monster in Robococp with no respect for human life similar to The Nolan Joker, has 1 liners and he is a Loyal as Hell Tigers fan that did offer a Narcotics Kingpin to go with him. Likely he's either a Sociopath or a Psychopath because the Police file had more than 1 page of his criminal offenses which if I recall right included rape. He might have the highest amount of offenses for a Villain in a Hollywood Action Movie and in general Movies,most of those offenses are not shown so no doubt happened in the past and leaves the viewers able to imagine how many crimes was he was responsible for before he died. Also he's shown to be a Sadist, has 0 value for human life, also he is a jerkass that used a cobra canon blowing up a Friend's new car which is a colossal jerkass move because he could have demonstrated the gun on something else. Davy Jones Of POTC Movies: He became a Sea Devil that corrupted his purpose because of Calypso not showing, and he loved Calypso. His response to this event that changed him is love can be easily severed that he brings up in a POTC Movie , and he corrupted his purpose with not taking persons to the afterlife instead coercing persons to join his Crew because of his whole philosophy "Life is Cruel why should the afterlife be any different." He can delay the Judgement if they join his crew on the Dutchman Ship. Persons that decline are murdered by the Monsters that are his crew. Apocalypse: A Powerhouse Mutant that utterly twisted Darwin's Survival of the Fittest as his twisted justification for his egregious actions. He uses his 4 Horsemen to create death and destruction which is his way of creating a New World, eliminate the weak or those he believes are weak so only the strong survive along with his survival of the fittest used because he's creating death and destruction. Thanos: The Marvel 616 Version wants to woo Death a entity that is a woman in the Marvel 616 Universe which is why he intentionally kills animals and persons. He's a ruthless remorseless Nihilist that loves Death, and wants to Woo Death. The serious Freddy Krueger uses 1 liners, kills teenagers in creative ways, and has mostly unlimited power in the Dream World. Also has a clawed glove. He's a Magnificent Bastard that is a Pure Evil Villain a Complete Monster.
I've been thinking about this for a while but a lot of people like to bash Sephiroth from Final Fantasy 7 but I think there's far more to him than people give him credit for.
In my Elf sister Fantasy series: There is one "main" antagonist and several "minor antagonists". The main antagonist is the Dark Power, the counterpart of the Light, which is the deity of the Elves. The Dark Power takes possession of the minor antagonists throughout the series. In the first book, it took possession of a vampire. Through this possession, the Dark Power murdered the Queen of the Elves, the mother of my three main protagonists: Adria, Celestina and Anastasia. They are the princesses of the Elves and sisters. In the first book, Adria needs to destroy the vampire who murdered her mother. But, in order to do so, she must pay a high price for the power of the Light, her deity. The first book is told from Adria's point of view. The second book is told from Celestina's view point. The third, from Anastasia's. The final book is told from a combination of all three of their view points. I already have an idea of how I want to end the series. But I'm still working on the first book. So fay, one hundred thirty-one pages. Wish me luck, Jordan. :).
I don't mean this rudely, I actually mean this as an encouragement and a motivation... Get published! It's an amazing and just wonderful, giddy accomplishment. I'm published on Amazon.com and it feels incredibly great.
While Truby touches on it a good deal in THE ANATOMY OF STORY, the theory shows up earlier in McKee's book on screenwriting, STORY. He goes further than Truby in laying out the general corners - value/synthesis (the protagonist), contradictory, contrasting, and the negation of the negative. Neither actually conjured it wholesale however as it's a dialectic method of reasoning the storyteller takes the audience through the explored theme that has been with us since Aristotle first proposed it.
How do you think Tolkien did with his villain Sauron? The Eye who moved massed amount of flunkies around, while he himself remained very much behind the scene.
but is he the villain or the protagonist of the story? Can a character be both a protagonist and a villain at the same time in the story? How about Song of Ice & Fire/ Game of the Thrones series characters. Is there villains in that series?
I would say that besides maybe Ramsay Bolton and Joffrey, there aren't really any villains in Game of Thrones because I think the goal of the series was to show the villain in all of us. It's a clash of political beliefs and personal ambitions, not so much a good versus bad story. As far as Light, I'd call him an anti-hero, but I have trouble truly identifying what he is.
It's kind of sad how Snoke was mistreated in The Last Jedi. He is said to be more powerful than Emperor Palpatine and Darth Vader and he is easily killed of by Ben. We don't know who he is, where he came from, why he's so powerful, how he turned Ben in to Kylo Ren and how he built the First Order. We could've had such a great villain, not only for Star Wars but for films in general and he is thrown away like a plot device, because that is EXACTLY how he was used in the film. Rian Johnson, newsflash, you can focus your story on your main characters AND have a great villain(most of the Disney hand drawn animated films, the DC universe, the Marvel Universe, and Harry Potter). Oh well, perhaps he just isn't a good writer then.
This book counts as a memoir and not genre fiction, but Trevor Noah’s stepfather Abel comes off as a scary antagonist in “Born a Crime”. Abel was physically abusive, but what made him creepy was that he was calm and serene, not overtly angry and aggressive. He was also hailed as a hero by his community, so when police reports were filed against him, they weren’t taken seriously by those in charge. How does Abel receive his comeuppance, you ask? He doesn’t. He’s probably still wandering around Trevor Noah’s home country of South Africa to this day. Abel’s abuse is sadly not an isolated incident in today’s society, which is what makes this brand of villain all the more realistic.
Something to remember when it comes to villiains: villiains are the mc of their own story. They, just as your protagonists, have a past, thoughts, opinions, motivations. You don't need to reveal them, but you need to know them.
Ooh, that's an interesting idea. I actually just finished reading Vicious, so I'm definitely up for that at some point! Will add it to my video ideas list :)
What I like to do when I write a villain is to put on my villain-hat and strike my moustache! JK Depth is the keyword indeed, IMO to a good villain. As a writer I always doubt myself when I come down to write one (also protagonists) asking "do you really think this villain is scary? If I was a new reader, someone who doesn't know the plot and have a previous experience from other stories... would I still consider him scary?" I always doubt whoever I'm writing and try to make the best out of it so when someone else read it he won't be able to think otherwise. Also I always edit my stuff about 3-6 times over and over until I'm relatively satisfied. Plus, I always ask myself what I want to project to the reader: am I trying to make the villain scary? Maybe mysterious? Perhaps more deep - not necessarily humane\sensitive - with inner meanings? Or maybe it's good for the specific moment to have a flat villain, because it helps the reader focus more on the hero? Oh Jordan BTW I recommended you in my blog (Hebrew, sorry) as writing learning channel! I hope it's OK and that I didn't break any law on the process! israblog.nana10.co.il/blogread.asp?blog=861129
Personally, my favorite villains are the scary ones. If they aren't threatening enough to where the reader finds them to be at least somewhat scary, then they aren't particularly good villains, at least for me. So I hate it when the villain's backstory is examined and detailed and given some tragic reason for why they're evil; at that point, they become antagonists to me, not villains. The less we know about how someone thinks and why they are the way they are, the more mysterious they become; and the unknown is always scarier than the known.
I hate the serial killers in so many thrillers that have the "tragic backstory" Like I want an antagonist that is evil for the sake of it I don't enjoy my antagonists because they are "misunderstood" and "tragic" I enjoy their evilness and sadism
Is it okay to not have a villain? Although, my story certainly does has antagonists, I'm focusing on turmoil and conflict instead of a big bad villain.
Do antagonists have to be bad guys? And does an antagonist have to be a person? Can it be an entity or just an in general obstacle like a mental illness?
Well they can be entities and other, but they’re generally people because a good antagonist should be 3 dimensional, which you can’t really do with entities or mental illnesses. Also, a lot of authors worry about how compelling their stories are, and with that being said, intangible antagonists don’t usually give huge plot points. The story is usually more gripping with a character that you can humanise, and make terrifying. You can play with tangible characters as opposed to entities because they’re usually quite universal with thinking or ideology. Idk, that’s just my take
1. No Antagonists don't have to be bad guys. Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure: 2 Antagonists. Ted's Dad that is going to send him to Military School because Ted is failing history and wants great grades which Ted hasn't met, and since Ted and Bill can raise their History grades with a great presentation but Ted's dad mind is made up so it won't be easy achieving this since his dad has the plan to send him to Military School the same day as the History Presentation. Mystery Alaska: The underdog amateur Hockey Team plays the New York Rangers in a exhibition. It's David vs Goliath except the New York Rangers are not Bad Guys instead Antagonists that can prevent the other team from winning in a Hockey game. Eight Below: The Antagonist is Antartica because The Huskies have to survive in Antartica before Jerry and other humans find them. Also the antagonist is a lack of money and far distance since Jerry wants to return to Antartica to rescue his dogs. Persons decline to finance the risky expedition, and he is in the USA while the Dogs are in Antartica. Snow Dogs He doesn't know who is his dad which he wants to know, the Dog Demon is hostile because of a thing stuck in his tooth. Those are 2 antagonists and neither are Villains. The Mighty Ducks 2: Iceland is the Main Antagonist, and while the Iceland Head Coach is a unlikable character he's not a Villain because he didn't bribe the Refs, didn't have his players use steroids, etc. Iceland is Goliatn, and USA is David the Underdog. Lady Bugs: The Antagonist is the lady bugs a soccer team has no confidence they can win which is why the Head Coach uses his son on a girls soccer team dressed as a girl to win Soccer games. The team wins games because of Martha and has to learn to believe they can win and succeed on the field, also win without Martha. 2. It can be not a person. Twister, Volcano, Dante's Peak, and any other natural disaster which has a tornado, volcano, etc is the Antagonist. Christine A horror movie that has a Violent Vintage Plymouth Fury a car. Any other Horror movie that has a haunted object which reminds me of Occulus A 2013 Supernatural Horror movie with a Lovecraft Style Mirror that is haunted and malevolent that is likely responsible for the deaths and suffering in the movie. Poverty is the Antagonist in the Drama movie Cinderella Man. The father has to provide for his family and can't do that with poverty and no job. Another boxer is a other antagonist that isn't a bad guy. 3. Yes it's been used in Horror movies with a Haunted Car, or some other haunted thing. Also yes it can be a mental illness or disease which could be a person or persons needing to cure the disease or the person will die. Or a person that has a mental illness which creates issues and is preventing the character from accomplishing his or her goal.
I think that's the point. They are the main villains for team Avatar and Ozai did exactly what he needed to: be mysterious, and strike fear into the characters and audience.
Even if Villains are humanized that shouldn't be used as justifications for their destructive actions which is exactly why most persons Hated the abomination remake Halloween that was completely unnecessary. Rob Zombie made Michael Myers a dime a dozen same as other serial killers with a dysfunctional family, and the whole everyone except his mother and Doctor Loomis are jerkasses to Michael is implausible and unbelievable. They are because that's what the writer wrote not because Michael is a bully, a racist,insults persons, makes inappropriate dirty jokes, etc those would be plausible reasons why persons are jerkasses to Michael none of which Rob Zombie has in that utterly unnecessary remake movie. Great Villains will be a formidable adversary that the Hero can't easily defeat because if they can it's a lameass uninteresting undramatic boring climax, and a candyass jabroni Villain or a Flimsy Villain. Movies that have great climaxes with the Main Villains are Jaws, Predator 2, Predator, Original Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, POTC Curse of the Black Pearl, Halloween, Aladdin, Wishmaster, Star Wars Return Of The Jedi, Terminator 2 Judgement Day, etc. Even if Villains are redeemable I don't want to see a high use of the Villain attempts to redeem him or herself because it alters the climax to undramatic and frustrating to read or watch. A Few Good Men the main Villain could have redeemed himself but didn't because he was utterly convinced that the ends justify the means including the whole a substandard marine murdered is what he believes is just and right. In the Great Remake Cape Fear The Main Villain Max Caddy he is humanized because why he terrorizes Sam and his family because he didn't do the best to defend him for rape since Sam buried a file about the victim's sexual history which he believes could have either given him a acquittal or a reduced sentence both of which are possible because this was before what is known as slut shaming couldn't be used in US Rape cases. He has no hatred of the Prosecutor and Judge because they did their job while Sam a Defense attorney didn't to the best of his ability, and intentionally buried the file because he didn't want to humiliate the victim with the file brought up at trial so a good moral decision but violated his ethical duty as a Defense lawyer. So it's utterly plausible for why he terrorizes Sam and his family, also a religious man maybe Catholic because he uses verses from the Bible to justify his awful predatory actions. Rape is a egregious nefarious action, 1 of the worst evils, the offender is always to blame never the victim, is always wrong, and pure evil. It's not like Killing which has exceptions where it isn't wrong in certain situations such as self defense, defense of other persons because a suicide bomber that refuses to surrender, soldiers killing enemy soldiers during times of war, etc.
![On Writing: Villains [ Zuko l Joker l Watchmen l Vikings l Game of Thrones l Javert ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/16eJZmW_cGE/mqdefault.jpg)
Ugh I really want more stories with villain protagonists like Light from Death Note >:)
cloudgirl150 YES. I love anti heroes.
Jordan, have you read Vicious by V.E. Schwab? It's on my TBR, and apparently it's a great example of a villain protagonist done right.
cloudgirl150 I haven’t but I’m reading A Darker Shade of Magic which is written by her right now and loving it, so I definitely will!!
cloudgirl150 Viscous is a wonderful book! There is going to be a hardcover re-release of the book with a new cover in May.
Also the sequel to Viscous called Vengeful comes out in September. 😊
The Originals fits into this category perfectly :)
I really liked your explanation of villain vs antagonist. Not all antagonists are villains, because someone who opposes the protagonist might not necessarliy be evil. In my WIP, the antagonist is a relatively good guy. He's smart, charming and has the capability of loving others. However, his motivation and his own personal goals are what make him the antagonist in my story because it personally affects my main protagonist and her friends negatively.
Ayyy loved the Avatar the Last Airbender reference ;) Hands down one of the best antagonists ever!
That's a great example of an antagonist :)
+Jordan Harvey
Indeed.
It is possible to have MCs/protagonists that are villains. And the antagonist (justice league, police, etc) opposes the Villain Protagonist.
Villains can be antagonists. Not all antagonists are villains.
It depends on your Protagonist and their goals
BTW, Great Video!
Villains are like fine vintage wines, well-crafted, aged, and carefully made. Heroes are like minivans, if they brake you just replace them. My personal advice is that it pays great dividends for the villain to occasionally win. Doing so keeps them as valid threats.
I agree with you on intelligence being terrifying but I personally feel that the best villains make you believe in them. there's a quote somewhere that says every villain believes that they are the good guys. and that's what I believe makes a perfect villain because to them they are in the right and if they can make you believe they are right as well, it completely makes you question everything that you believe and everything that you stand for and should also do so for the protagonist. so was villains that almost brainwash you while you're fighting no matter how things end the villain still wins and that's scary as hell to me.
YES! That is a great point!!
+Jordan Harvey I actually fangirl squeed when I realized that you're the one that responded so quickly and my boyfriend didn't believe me until I showed him. but yeah the actually scary villains was something that made me not respect a lot of Disney villains when I was a kid. I like villains that terrify you and demand respect without actually demanding it verbally.
For sure. Actions definitely speak louder than words in this case, or I suppose you could say "show, don't tell."
And I try to respond to all my comments, but yours was a really good point :)
wait...
Hero: the avatar
Ant1:Zuko
Ant2: Azula
Villain: fire lord
perfect lol although i would say Zhao and Zuko are more ant1 and ant2 , Azula is completely aligned with her father making her a villain as well. Zhao at least had
In my current Urban Fantasy series the criminal mastermind I created is basically a mix of the Latiyah from Queen of the Damned and Professor James Moriarty from Sherlock Holmes.
She's terrifying with her powers and even has fun doing what she does. But she has a system: she never reveals herself until she knows what she's dealing with. Thus she uses her powers to control other people, seeing other places through their eyes. Once she knows what she's dealing with, she finally shows herself. Her ultimate reason for doing what she does is because she doesn't want humans and monsters to forget that there's ALWAYS someone out there who's scary and is a reason why you should be scared of the dark.
A common thing she has with the protagonists is that they both like using their powers, but while the protagonists believe in using their power to help people, she believes in using her power to inspire fear.
Batman is order and control. The joker was chaos and freedom. Batman invaded personal privacy with sensors and ignored national boarders with extrodinary rendition. Joker didn't value human life because he was convinced that humans don't value human life. That civilization is a joke because were all animals. Or, a more interesting interpretation, he was trying to make the people of Gotham realize their common humanity and regain it. Good stuff though, just my personal opinion.
An interesting take!
Wow
I think that technique is called Four Corner Opposition. I found out about it from a video I watched I while back and I adore using it. It's made it so much easier for me to come up with villain characters.
That was a great video. I'm now on my third reading of John Truby's book in a month because of that.
Found the credits for the technique! The technique is called "four corner opposition" which John Truby wrote about in his book The Anatomy of Story. The technique is also found in Robert McKee's book "Story". Thank you to everyone who helped track this down!
Another video that breaks down this Four Corner Opposition technique is this one: www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-PfE...
Jordan Harvey it's super helpful Jordan - thanks for sharing! I kept drawing overly complicated character webs 😂 This is an easier starting point!
I did like Jordan's comments on humanizing the villains and giving them sympathizing reason for their actions. I think there could be something quite harrowing about that.
I'm into psychological stuff at the moment. Some of it is very dark. The humanizing factor has inspired many ideas. Especially, for my latest creation.
Avatar! You are so right! Seriously one of the best pieces of storytelling in any medium I've ever experienced!
Yes! It's so good. I've seen it about 5 times through.
I did a video on the first episode of it actually if you want to check that out!
Great vid. I agree with a lot of this. This is fantastic advice. Loved the Avatar reference, btw. I totally agree, Zuko is a fantastic example of a redeeming antihero since he has conflict and bounces back and forth a lot, having a compelling arc.
To add on to this, for me, it depends on a lot on the story you're trying to tell. But in general, for villains that are more "redeemable" or antiheroes in general, then it's probably better to humanise them by explaining their actions, but not excusing them and give them some good traits for the audience to latch onto while having some mystery to them and room to grow or devolve (Zuko, Light Yagami, Loki in the Marvel movies, the whole cast of Six of Crows, the characters in the Game of Thrones series, etc). But for the "Final Boss" that's more in the shadows and a looming threat, then they should be more mysterious while also having a strong, understandable motive and while challenging the protagonist (The Fire Lord from Avatar, Saruman, etc). However, in cases when the villain is less mysterious and shown a lot more, I think the villain should have a defined, memorable personality on top of having strong motives and challenging the heroes (The Joker, Amon, Kuvira, Darth Vadar, the Darkling from the Grisha series, Count Olaf, most of the animated Disney villains...except the 2010s ones, etc). Otherwise, if the villain doesn't stand out personality wise, the villain will come off as bland and make the story a bit weaker because of it. Though, you do see "Weaker Villain Syndrome" in a lot of Disney movies post 2010, Marvel movies (though, not so much on Netflixs since Kilgrave is a fantastic villain and is legit terrifying) and even in the Voltron reboot (since Zarkon is a bland villain. To be fair, Lotor is a vastly better villain/morally grey character because he does have a more defined personality...though this motives are rather vague).
This is another area I've seen lacking in YA in general since I find a lot of the time the villains are either slapped on at the last second (Twilight, Court of Thrones and Roses, etc) or they are completely forgettable. The only exceptions I can think of are the Grisha series, Six of Crows, and The Hunger Games.
Hell, something that I never seen YA tackle is a more antihero like protagonist that has a more cunning and clever personality while also staying somewhat heroic. The only examples I can think of is Artemis Foul and Kaz from Six of Crows. And the former isn't even YA! I would love to see more morally grey characters and better villains in YA!
Speaking of that, one video idea in general, though you don't have to do this, obviously, is maybe a list of tropes and ideas you wish were in YA books more. For me, it would be antihero protagonists, morally grey characters, stronger villains, female friendships, MCs with more defined personalities, etc.
Carissa Carlson Thanks so much for this comment! You’re definitely right about having memorable personalities. You can have so much fun with villains if you commit and really embrace them.
And thanks for the video request, I’ll definitely consider doing that!!
No problem. I love writing villains and have a blast writing them.
One thing I would like to add to the "morally grey" villain list for YA is Percy Jackson--not to mention that almost every antagonist in there is stronger than him, but he has friends and street smarts, etc. And, because he fights gods (that are said in some book or other that they are never in the wrong...) he is against supposedly impossible odds, and, if not for the people around him, he would be deader than the deadest dead by now.
Never thought of that one, but I'd add that to the list, too.
I, for instance, have an antagonist who works for my main villain, she has the same goals in general and that's why she follows him, but while the villain thinks that casualties and sacrifices are necessary, she wants to prevent them just like the hero. I noticed that she fits perfectly into the chart
That's cool! Yeah, it seems to fit well into the chart.
I disagree with your stating that you should pretty much always stay away from the reds on that line thing you showed. Either extreme can be effective if written well. Completely inhuman antagonists can work well in horror stories where he/she/it is meant to be only threatening rather than intriguing. An example of this I guess is slasher flics, but those can be hit or miss. But what about Steven King’s IT? That is a very long book which does sometimes include Pennywise’s point of view. Yet IT is driven only by its predatory nature and has no real values that oppose the hero’s except that they want to stay alive. IT’s origin is revealed to be a vague cosmic force, and we don’t get much more than that. Despite this, many find IT terrifying, and Pennywise could be considered an effective antagonist. The other extreme is where too much of the antagonist is revealed and they become nonthreatening. Though I can’t think of a specific example since I don’t read this kind of story very often, in theory a completely shown and understood antagonist works well in a tragedy. If the hero is only pitted against the villain because they disagree, and otherwise they are both fully fleshed-out and human, It can make the attacks they must carry out against each other all the more affecting and, for lack of a better word, tragic.
This point is just a disagreement in ideology, and I really enjoyed your video.
There's definitely exceptions to every rule, and those are great examples!! Thanks for the comment :)
Thanks for making great content.
I saw Hans Landa in the thumbnail and was like: HOLY MOTHER OF GOD, I MUST CLICK ! ! !
HE'S THE BEST
I'm falling in love with your channel, keep doing what you do! ❤
AVATAR! YES! Love it!
New to this channel and already loving what I'm seeing.
Subscribed.
Thanks so much! And yes, Avatar is amazing! :)
On the humanization note there is also the option to make the antagonist/villain really relatable and freak out the reader by challenging their sense of moral stability. What if the villain is right is a terrifying thought because it makes one doubt some foundation of their existence.
Gosh, your videos are so amazing!! Totally love every single video of yours, totally underrated. Keep it up, send you love.
Thank you!!
Thanks for this great video! Thank God I have found you. I already watched your book reviews and was highly impressed by how understandable and well-thought your critiques are. Most BookTubers just claim it's a great story with great characters but never explain WHY. But you do explaining so well and contribute a lot to BookTube, so thank you :)
I'm also an unpublished writer myself and found this video really helpful. Currently, I'm working on a Contemporary Drama novel about a boy with aggression problems and an traumatized girl with an eating disorder and how they help each other and - most importantly - themselves. Sure it's very difficult to use your cues inside a story where mostly the antagonists are the protagonists themselves because of their psychological issues but yet alone you showed me how much they can learn from each other and technically make the other's situation better or worse. Mainly because they deal with their issues and helplessness in completely different ways. So it even works out for Contemporary, even if the level is a little more complex.
Thank you and have a nice day :)
P.S. Avatar is my favourite TV show, too 💜 I think Azula will always be one of my favourite villains.
So glad this was helpful, and it's so nice to hear that you like my channel!! Good luck with your novel, it sounds like it's going to be really interesting!
Wondering if you could do a video on making a protagonist an ally? Like a "Redeeming the villain done right"? I'm thinking about a villain to be used in later books as an alley to an even bigger bad that the the villain would team up with (either directly or indirectly) the hero to fight against.
I actually really do like stories where it's not black and white about who the hero is and who the villain is though. Stories like that are very complex and exist in the moral grey area. They really make you think and challenge your beliefs about right and wrong. Books like Nothing Lasts Forever by Roderick Thorp and First Blood by David Morell really make you question who's right and who's wrong without any clear hints to a proper answer.
You can also see the shades of gray not all simple black and white in the Suspense Noir Movie Cape Far the remake which is vastly better than the Original Cape Fear because the Villain is a simple irredeemable Black Hat, the Hero has a perfect family and is a Simple White Hat Hero.
Also Brooklyn''s Finest that has characters that aren't Black and White but shades of gray so you won't have any simple answers with this character is a hero and this character is a Villain.
Most other Crime Drama movies it has simple the Villains are undeniably in the wrong also evil while the Heroes are in the right and good.
The king Meruem from Hunter x Hunter was an extremely well written and terrifying villain. Probably one of the most scary villains I have ever seen. He had morals that were opposite of the protagonist and it was clear why he had these morals. Hunter x Hunter is a really meaningful anime that has fleshed out side characters/mc and interesting villains/antagonists.b
The Four Cornered Technique is *exactly* what I've been looking for! Thanks, I love making stories, but rarely ever know how I want the Antagonists to be. This helps me sooo much! (Yay, with this I'll finally get somewhere!!)
Ana Mazing I’m so glad!!
I like Villains who believe they’re doing the right thing but are still pure evil.
Examples:
1. Lex Luthor - Superman’s Archenemy Corporate Version/90s Superman Cartoon/World’s Finest Fan Film By Sandy Corolla).
2. Norman Osborn/Green Goblin - Spider-Man’s Archenemy (616 Version/90s Spider-Man Cartoon/Spider-Man 1).
3. Judge Claude Frollo - Disney’s The Hunchback of Notre Dame.
4. John Doe - Se7en.
Villains who have no redeeming qualities but believe they are doing what they think is. Sort of like Hitler.
Its actually quite crazy how you can analyze an entire movie just based on four corner opposition. I was doing some charts and realized the movie Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice doesn't have four corner opposition. It not a complete square until about 90 minutes into the movie, then it drops a corner, and then brings in Wonder Woman and Doomsday and they simply did not fit in the square. John Truby's concept applies to all media, not just books and movies, which is amazing.
“Killer villain”, lol.
Good call with Hans- I had forgotten about Inglorious Bastards; that was a damn intense villain, which was a bit jarring for the light-hearted feel of the film.
Also, judging from that graph I want to read your book.
This helped me a lot. I also make my antagonist have a dream or goal and my protagonist works to achieve a close type of goal and the antagonist lashes out due to insecurities or to see who is best. They get personality and drama from the same plot point.
As always, great video!! I love villains, they're my favorite characters to look at in stories, and I think it's because they're so hard to write well, but when written well they're just so fascinating. So refreshing to see these more in-depth looks at storytelling on booktube, because while I do love a good book haul or wrap up, sometimes I want something a little more to sink my teeth into :)
Thanks so much!! You always leave great comments and have insightful thoughts, so I'm really glad you're enjoying my channel Rachel
Four corner opposition is what you are trying to remember I think.
Thanks! It's in the description box :)
This was a really helpful video, especially that antagonist table. I'm definitely going to be using it in the future!
It's been really helpful to me! Glad I was able to help!!
Have you seen 11.22.63? I have a few critics to the series in general, but the relationship between Jake and Sadie was solid in my opinion and the ending stucked with me until today
Some of my favorite stories have both or all sides of the conflicts treated equally or at least close on the moral spectrum. It creates better tension as you have fondness for all characters. Having a villain most of the time means you know the heroes are going to win overall.
It depends, but that's definitely a good tactic :) I think writers should take a similar approach as more actors and treat characters with empathy, regardless on which side they fall in the story. That definitely helps keep morality on a bit more of a spectrum!
Thanks for the video! It's very helpful! Also, I love your look. PLease keep on making these type of videos. Thanks!
Thanks! I will for sure :)
I was watching this movie that the villain act as the antagonist as well and this vid make me think about that movie.. I realized the story wouldn't as interesting without that strong villain character building. in fact I was like "ohh I know he's bad but he's just a lot more interesting than the protagonist"
It would be awesome if you had an in-depth analysis of villains to follow. Maybe go down a line of degrees in what was successful to not so much from the books you’ve read.
This really helped me get some bearing on developing the villains in my own story so thanks!!! 🤓
That's actually a really good idea! I'll put that on my video idea list :) Glad the video was helpful!!
Jordan's energy at the end "Avatar The Last Airbender...& if you haven't seen the show, stop what you're doing & go Fix Your Life!" & I love it 😂
An example of what you mentioned, using some Marvel characters. Hero: Spiderman, Villain: The Kingpin, Antagonist 1: The Punisher, Antagonist 2: The Wolverine. Spiderman and Kingpin are completely opposed, and want different things. Spiderman, Punisher, and Wolverine essentially want the same things, but strongly disagree on how to go about achieving them.
I utterly agree Jordan not all Antagonists are Bad Guys, they can oppose the Protagonists and prevent them from accomplishing their goal or goals which I've seen in the movies Mystery Alaska, Mighty Ducks 2, and Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure.
Also most natural disaster movies including Twister, Volcano, etc that has a Tornado or something else create destruction and death but since the Volcano, Tornado, etc can't be anything but destructive those I would disagree with called Villains, and can easily be logically called Antagonists.
A story won't be good or great without a Formidable Villain or Antagonist that is a good or great adversary because it's undramatic, unentertaining, uninteresting, and boring if persons have no doubt the protagonist is going to defeat the Villain or Antagonist.
Good or great stories have good or great Villains that I recall with the book The Monkey's Raincoat a Mystery PI Book that I finished not that long ago, movies (2012) The Raven, Man of Steel, Seven, Doctor Strange the MCU Movie, The Rock, Spider Man Homecoming, Jaws, POTC Curse of the Black Pearl, Marked for Death, 48 Hours, Predator, The Dark Tower, etc.
A Villain should have a plausible motive or motives otherwise it's lameass writing if the motive is being Evil because they're a Villain unless done right.
The Best Villains usually believe that they are the good guys in the right using good methods to accomplish their goal or goals, or they believe that the ends justify the means to accomplish their goal or goals even though it freakin doesn't. For some plausible reason or reasons they believe they are the good guys in the right using just methods to accomplish their goals or they believe that the ends justify the means and can be Well Intentioned Extremists or AntiVillains which was shown in the 2 movies Black Panther, The Rock, X Men comics usually with Magneto, Sinestro the Yellow Lantern In Green Lantern Comic books that believes that the best and only way to create order is through fear and since he was able to create Order on his home planet with Fear and Tyranny it's plausible why he believes that creating Order through Fear is The Best for Creating order in the Universe, Kingpin in the Daredevil Netflix TV SHOW, etc.
The Archenemy of 1 my Super Heroes is a Pure Evil Character no doubt done right, he has plausible motives for his nefarious actions, no doubt a Magnificent Bastard, is a Juggernaut with a terrifying terrific Appearance.
I want to Own my Own Publishing Company that Would Mainly Publish Super Hero Comic books which is my career goal along with get my super hero comic books published.
A Pure Evil Character for serious adult fiction can be great if done right. Clarence Boddicker is a Complete Monster in Robococp with no respect for human life similar to The Nolan Joker, has 1 liners and he is a Loyal as Hell Tigers fan that did offer a Narcotics Kingpin to go with him. Likely he's either a Sociopath or a Psychopath because the Police file had more than 1 page of his criminal offenses which if I recall right included rape. He might have the highest amount of offenses for a Villain in a Hollywood Action Movie and in general Movies,most of those offenses are not shown so no doubt happened in the past and leaves the viewers able to imagine how many crimes was he was responsible for before he died. Also he's shown to be a Sadist, has 0 value for human life, also he is a jerkass that used a cobra canon blowing up a Friend's new car which is a colossal jerkass move because he could have demonstrated the gun on something else.
Davy Jones Of POTC Movies: He became a Sea Devil that corrupted his purpose because of Calypso not showing, and he loved Calypso. His response to this event that changed him is love can be easily severed that he brings up in a POTC Movie , and he corrupted his purpose with not taking persons to the afterlife instead coercing persons to join his Crew because of his whole philosophy "Life is Cruel why should the afterlife be any different." He can delay the Judgement if they join his crew on the Dutchman Ship. Persons that decline are murdered by the Monsters that are his crew.
Apocalypse: A Powerhouse Mutant that utterly twisted Darwin's Survival of the Fittest as his twisted justification for his egregious actions. He uses his 4 Horsemen to create death and destruction which is his way of creating a New World, eliminate the weak or those he believes are weak so only the strong survive along with his survival of the fittest used because he's creating death and destruction.
Thanos: The Marvel 616 Version wants to woo Death a entity that is a woman in the Marvel 616 Universe which is why he intentionally kills animals and persons. He's a ruthless remorseless Nihilist that loves Death, and wants to Woo Death.
The serious Freddy Krueger uses 1 liners, kills teenagers in creative ways, and has mostly unlimited power in the Dream World. Also has a clawed glove. He's a Magnificent Bastard that is a Pure Evil Villain a Complete Monster.
I've been thinking about this for a while but a lot of people like to bash Sephiroth from Final Fantasy 7 but I think there's far more to him than people give him credit for.
In my Elf sister Fantasy series: There is one "main" antagonist and several "minor antagonists". The main antagonist is the Dark Power, the counterpart of the Light, which is the deity of the Elves. The Dark Power takes possession of the minor antagonists throughout the series. In the first book, it took possession of a vampire. Through this possession, the Dark Power murdered the Queen of the Elves, the mother of my three main protagonists: Adria, Celestina and Anastasia. They are the princesses of the Elves and sisters. In the first book, Adria needs to destroy the vampire who murdered her mother. But, in order to do so, she must pay a high price for the power of the Light, her deity. The first book is told from Adria's point of view. The second book is told from Celestina's view point. The third, from Anastasia's. The final book is told from a combination of all three of their view points. I already have an idea of how I want to end the series. But I'm still working on the first book. So fay, one hundred thirty-one pages. Wish me luck, Jordan. :).
Hey, may I use the tips that you mentioned here on "How to create great villains" for my writing
I don't mean this rudely, I actually mean this as an encouragement and a motivation... Get published! It's an amazing and just wonderful, giddy accomplishment. I'm published on Amazon.com and it feels incredibly great.
I'm working on it!
Great video! Thanks for all the tips & info :)
Thanks! And no problem :)
You should do a video on Kafka and Nabokov
I like to bases my villains in random shit I've said. It works, surprisingly.
While Truby touches on it a good deal in THE ANATOMY OF STORY, the theory shows up earlier in McKee's book on screenwriting, STORY. He goes further than Truby in laying out the general corners - value/synthesis (the protagonist), contradictory, contrasting, and the negation of the negative. Neither actually conjured it wholesale however as it's a dialectic method of reasoning the storyteller takes the audience through the explored theme that has been with us since Aristotle first proposed it.
Thanks, I'll update it :)
How do you think Tolkien did with his villain Sauron? The Eye who moved massed amount of flunkies around, while he himself remained very much behind the scene.
Can you please make a video how you can make a good bounty hunter as a character, please?
Zuko and Azula from AtLA :DDD
How about Death Note the anime series? Since Light is the villain and the main character.
I love Light! He's probably my favourite anti-hero/villain protagonist.
but is he the villain or the protagonist of the story? Can a character be both a protagonist and a villain at the same time in the story?
How about Song of Ice & Fire/ Game of the Thrones series characters. Is there villains in that series?
I would say that besides maybe Ramsay Bolton and Joffrey, there aren't really any villains in Game of Thrones because I think the goal of the series was to show the villain in all of us. It's a clash of political beliefs and personal ambitions, not so much a good versus bad story.
As far as Light, I'd call him an anti-hero, but I have trouble truly identifying what he is.
A story can only be as good as its villain
It's kind of sad how Snoke was mistreated in The Last Jedi. He is said to be more powerful than Emperor Palpatine and Darth Vader and he is easily killed of by Ben. We don't know who he is, where he came from, why he's so powerful, how he turned Ben in to Kylo Ren and how he built the First Order. We could've had such a great villain, not only for Star Wars but for films in general and he is thrown away like a plot device, because that is EXACTLY how he was used in the film. Rian Johnson, newsflash, you can focus your story on your main characters AND have a great villain(most of the Disney hand drawn animated films, the DC universe, the Marvel Universe, and Harry Potter). Oh well, perhaps he just isn't a good writer then.
This book counts as a memoir and not genre fiction, but Trevor Noah’s stepfather Abel comes off as a scary antagonist in “Born a Crime”. Abel was physically abusive, but what made him creepy was that he was calm and serene, not overtly angry and aggressive. He was also hailed as a hero by his community, so when police reports were filed against him, they weren’t taken seriously by those in charge. How does Abel receive his comeuppance, you ask? He doesn’t. He’s probably still wandering around Trevor Noah’s home country of South Africa to this day. Abel’s abuse is sadly not an isolated incident in today’s society, which is what makes this brand of villain all the more realistic.
Something to remember when it comes to villiains: villiains are the mc of their own story. They, just as your protagonists, have a past, thoughts, opinions, motivations. You don't need to reveal them, but you need to know them.
Exactly.
Can you make a video about writing an anti-hero? It seems a lot of stories are starting to go that route.
Ooh, that's an interesting idea. I actually just finished reading Vicious, so I'm definitely up for that at some point! Will add it to my video ideas list :)
4:00 Have you seen cobra kai? I actually liked seeing things through Johnny's point of view.
What I like to do when I write a villain is to put on my villain-hat and strike my moustache! JK
Depth is the keyword indeed, IMO to a good villain. As a writer I always doubt myself when I come down to write one (also protagonists) asking "do you really think this villain is scary? If I was a new reader, someone who doesn't know the plot and have a previous experience from other stories... would I still consider him scary?"
I always doubt whoever I'm writing and try to make the best out of it so when someone else read it he won't be able to think otherwise.
Also I always edit my stuff about 3-6 times over and over until I'm relatively satisfied.
Plus, I always ask myself what I want to project to the reader: am I trying to make the villain scary? Maybe mysterious? Perhaps more deep - not necessarily humane\sensitive - with inner meanings? Or maybe it's good for the specific moment to have a flat villain, because it helps the reader focus more on the hero?
Oh Jordan BTW I recommended you in my blog (Hebrew, sorry) as writing learning channel! I hope it's OK and that I didn't break any law on the process!
israblog.nana10.co.il/blogread.asp?blog=861129
Thanks so much!! That's so nice of you! And I totally get doubting yourself, I do that constantly while I'm writing.
Thanks! Great advice!
No problem, glad you enjoyed it!
Personally, my favorite villains are the scary ones. If they aren't threatening enough to where the reader finds them to be at least somewhat scary, then they aren't particularly good villains, at least for me. So I hate it when the villain's backstory is examined and detailed and given some tragic reason for why they're evil; at that point, they become antagonists to me, not villains. The less we know about how someone thinks and why they are the way they are, the more mysterious they become; and the unknown is always scarier than the known.
I hate the serial killers in so many thrillers that have the "tragic backstory"
Like I want an antagonist that is evil for the sake of it
I don't enjoy my antagonists because they are "misunderstood" and "tragic" I enjoy their evilness and sadism
Cobra Kai were awesome villains. Their cheesiness makes them even more memorable.
Is it okay to not have a villain? Although, my story certainly does has antagonists, I'm focusing on turmoil and conflict instead of a big bad villain.
For sure. There definitely depends on genre and the focus of the novel!
It's a war/politic focused story.
New subscriber here. :) Your videos are really interesting and helpful! What sort of stuff do you write?
Jabberwooki Thank you! I write mostly sci-fi and fantasy :)
oo neat! I write fantasy too - mostly low fantasy or historical. Are you looking for any critique partners or beta readers?
Oh nice!! I'm not as of right now, but when my current WIP is ready, I'll probably mention it in a video! :)
Amazing advice. ❤️
Brianna Morales Thank you!!
Your videos are awesome.
Thank you!
Was this the video where you found the thing?
th-cam.com/video/p-PfEE5kveE/w-d-xo.html
Also, good video over all! You've been hitting it out of the park lately.
Yes! Landa is the best:D
Do antagonists have to be bad guys? And does an antagonist have to be a person? Can it be an entity or just an in general obstacle like a mental illness?
Well they can be entities and other, but they’re generally people because a good antagonist should be 3 dimensional, which you can’t really do with entities or mental illnesses. Also, a lot of authors worry about how compelling their stories are, and with that being said, intangible antagonists don’t usually give huge plot points. The story is usually more gripping with a character that you can humanise, and make terrifying. You can play with tangible characters as opposed to entities because they’re usually quite universal with thinking or ideology. Idk, that’s just my take
1. No Antagonists don't have to be bad guys. Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure: 2 Antagonists. Ted's Dad that is going to send him to Military School because Ted is failing history and wants great grades which Ted hasn't met, and since Ted and Bill can raise their History grades with a great presentation but Ted's dad mind is made up so it won't be easy achieving this since his dad has the plan to send him to Military School the same day as the History Presentation.
Mystery Alaska: The underdog amateur Hockey Team plays the New York Rangers in a exhibition. It's David vs Goliath except the New York Rangers are not Bad Guys instead Antagonists that can prevent the other team from winning in a Hockey game.
Eight Below:
The Antagonist is Antartica because The Huskies have to survive in Antartica before Jerry and other humans find them.
Also the antagonist is a lack of money and far distance since Jerry wants to return to Antartica to rescue his dogs. Persons decline to finance the risky expedition, and he is in the USA while the Dogs are in Antartica.
Snow Dogs
He doesn't know who is his dad which he wants to know, the Dog Demon is hostile because of a thing stuck in his tooth. Those are 2 antagonists and neither are Villains.
The Mighty Ducks 2: Iceland is the Main Antagonist, and while the Iceland Head Coach is a unlikable character he's not a Villain because he didn't bribe the Refs, didn't have his players use steroids, etc. Iceland is Goliatn, and USA is David the Underdog.
Lady Bugs: The Antagonist is the lady bugs a soccer team has no confidence they can win which is why the Head Coach uses his son on a girls soccer team dressed as a girl to win Soccer games. The team wins games because of Martha and has to learn to believe they can win and succeed on the field, also win without Martha.
2. It can be not a person. Twister, Volcano, Dante's Peak, and any other natural disaster which has a tornado, volcano, etc is the Antagonist.
Christine A horror movie that has a Violent Vintage Plymouth Fury a car. Any other Horror movie that has a haunted object which reminds me of Occulus A 2013 Supernatural Horror movie with a Lovecraft Style Mirror that is haunted and malevolent that is likely responsible for the deaths and suffering in the movie.
Poverty is the Antagonist in the Drama movie Cinderella Man. The father has to provide for his family and can't do that with poverty and no job. Another boxer is a other antagonist that isn't a bad guy.
3. Yes it's been used in Horror movies with a Haunted Car, or some other haunted thing.
Also yes it can be a mental illness or disease which could be a person or persons needing to cure the disease or the person will die.
Or a person that has a mental illness which creates issues and is preventing the character from accomplishing his or her goal.
I am also dead inside
0:37 you're so funny. xD
👌🏼👌🏼👌🏼
Only Azula and her friends were interesting villains. The rest of the villains in Avatar were meh. I don't count Zuko really.
I think that's the point. They are the main villains for team Avatar and Ozai did exactly what he needed to: be mysterious, and strike fear into the characters and audience.
Jordan Harvey
I don't know if I'd count him as mysterious. I mean he did have a backstory episode.
Protagonist or protAYgonist ......
Even if Villains are humanized that shouldn't be used as justifications for their destructive actions which is exactly why most persons Hated the abomination remake Halloween that was completely unnecessary. Rob Zombie made Michael Myers a dime a dozen same as other serial killers with a dysfunctional family, and the whole everyone except his mother and Doctor Loomis are jerkasses to Michael is implausible and unbelievable. They are because that's what the writer wrote not because Michael is a bully, a racist,insults persons, makes inappropriate dirty jokes, etc those would be plausible reasons why persons are jerkasses to Michael none of which Rob Zombie has in that utterly unnecessary remake movie.
Great Villains will be a formidable adversary that the Hero can't easily defeat because if they can it's a lameass uninteresting undramatic boring climax, and a candyass jabroni Villain or a Flimsy Villain.
Movies that have great climaxes with the Main Villains are Jaws, Predator 2, Predator, Original Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, POTC Curse of the Black Pearl, Halloween, Aladdin, Wishmaster, Star Wars Return Of The Jedi, Terminator 2 Judgement Day, etc.
Even if Villains are redeemable I don't want to see a high use of the Villain attempts to redeem him or herself because it alters the climax to undramatic and frustrating to read or watch. A Few Good Men the main Villain could have redeemed himself but didn't because he was utterly convinced that the ends justify the means including the whole a substandard marine murdered is what he believes is just and right.
In the Great Remake Cape Fear The Main Villain Max Caddy he is humanized because why he terrorizes Sam and his family because he didn't do the best to defend him for rape since Sam buried a file about the victim's sexual history which he believes could have either given him a acquittal or a reduced sentence both of which are possible because this was before what is known as slut shaming couldn't be used in US Rape cases.
He has no hatred of the Prosecutor and Judge because they did their job while Sam a Defense attorney didn't to the best of his ability, and intentionally buried the file because he didn't want to humiliate the victim with the file brought up at trial so a good moral decision but violated his ethical duty as a Defense lawyer.
So it's utterly plausible for why he terrorizes Sam and his family, also a religious man maybe Catholic because he uses verses from the Bible to justify his awful predatory actions.
Rape is a egregious nefarious action, 1 of the worst evils, the offender is always to blame never the victim, is always wrong, and pure evil.
It's not like Killing which has exceptions where it isn't wrong in certain situations such as self defense, defense of other persons because a suicide bomber that refuses to surrender, soldiers killing enemy soldiers during times of war, etc.
This is not a person.
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Creating villains is easy just watch Zionists...