You couldn’t imagine the reaction people had when they first started hearing whispers about this route a day or two after the game came out. Someone on Reddit was documenting it on a Google Doc and it sounded so much like a creepypasta, it was unnerving
I was reading the thread on reddit and I was like "nah this is some kind of collaborative community troll all the people in the comments talking about it being real are in on it."
I actually didn't believe it at first because the steps seem just too specific, at first we haven't known that some choices like the ferries wheel choices are completely optional
Not so fun fact: If you attempt to equip the Thorn Ring to either Ralsei or Susie neither of them will take it and they will seem disturbed by it, with Susie straight up calling it "A torture device?"
Fun fact! If you hurt the darkners in ch1, they'll still be in the town. Susiw will be like "Hey, didn't we beat those guys up?" and Lancer goes "I convinced them you're nice :)"
55:22 I think one of my favorite details about this path is how they show that Berdly is being VERY serious. He's not smirking, he's not trash talking you, his attacks are tougher, _he doesn't even target Noelle._ Also there's some unique dialogue if Kris goes down in this fight as well as a unique act for Kris, but I'm not sure if it would be spoilery for me to comment what happens with these.
@Flower Gaming Lmao its true based on the dialogue Even noelle asks "WHY ARE YOU ATTACKING ME" but since in this case he thinks Noelle really is in danger so he decided to fight kris and make him stop manipulate Noelle by force edit:Forgot to mention thats why i think Berdly is one of the Best characters in chapter 2
31:10 you see, the cool thing about that is that the message of the game is that YOUR choices don't matter. But what would happen if you were to manipulate someone else into making them choices for you...?
@@kildaverYour are the monster as the player pushing Noelle to the edge with your voice. If Kris goes down when fighting Noelle comments on how she can still hear you(the player).
the lack of kris's moss eating urges are actually imo a sign that they aren't really there anymore. it's you. the player. you don't eat moss. it's just some moss. you have better things to do like forcing noelle to murder.
@@ItsB1998 i meant not there in that moment. theres some dialogue at points later on in the route that i wont say here for spoiler reasons that heavily imply the players complete and full control over kris’s body throughout the route, up until they tear the soul out and do their dark fountainy thing.
@@ItsB1998 kris probably opened up the next dark world to make sure that we DONT get the chance to have another snowgrave moment. just look who's gonna be in the next dark world: susie who has repeatedly shown resistance to our choices, kris's own mother who we know is firm and steadfast about her morals, and officer undyne (aka the heroine) is on her way too. kris likely set it up this way to make sure there would be no one that can be easily manipulated. plus kris has dialog trying to tell undyne about the dark world and has shown many times how fond they are of susie compared to other characters. kris obviously is trying to surround themself with people that wont listen to us
@@Kromer__ Their reactions are their own. It is said multiple times that they seem happy when we make them eat moss. Kris does seem to enjoy eating moss. Maybe it's because they want to be more monster-like? And Toriel, Asgore, and Asriel are goats, and goats eat all kinds of weird stuff, so... Maybe Kris is trying to be more like them by eating weird stuff? Or maybe Kris is just weird. Either way, they seem to genuinely enjoy when we have them eat moss.
It's actually possible to use snowgrave outside the berdly battle by initiating it then fighting him normally. It will knock you off the weird route and back to neutral but you can go and touch some cheese to use the spell. Interestingly enough the enemies don't neither freeze nor run away they instead *turn to dust*
It wasn't patched out. The only change is that Snowgrave disappears from Noelle's spell list if you spare Berdly. But you can still keep it if you fight Berdly. Interestingly enough, Noelle doesn't do her "Looks like Kris snapped out of whatever that was" monologue if you fight Berdly instead of sparing him, which almost feels intentional.
I'm not sure if it's intentional but I feel like the enemies remaining frozen after battle is supposed to be a very dark pun about computers/computer programs (especially on older systems like the ones in the Light World library) freezing up
I feel like it is, since the worst thing to happen to a computer for all people with a computer is a blue screen aka a freeze, it can't really run if it does that... Since otherwise they run away, after all, they're data, you can't kill data! But they can't *RUN* If they're frozen.. And we know Toby is a clever bastard like that.
Berdly and Noelle have special dialog if Kris goes down during the Berdly fight. Berdly questions why Noelle still doesn't come with him and she says that she can still hear Kris' voice. Also Noelle's defend animation changed to use an ice wall instead of just her arms.
The way Toby Fox makes the genocide or evil routes... they feel bad. The way this chapter focuses on the manipulation of Noelle is harrowing. It feels wrong.
I'm amazed that despite the "you're despicable" elements of thus route and undertale, there's still new information and insights to make it worth looking at. Also nice to see even soulless Kris can disapprove.
to be honest i never got how people interpret genocide or snowgrave as "you're despicable" , it always just seemed like it was a alternate take on the story toby added for those who are really attached to the world. the fact that people want to make it a proof of real life morals is stupid
@@heartbae87 Mate if you don't see any inherent judgement in the narrative of you (not Kris, you, the player of the game) manipulating a girl into being your personal plaything and tool, I dunno what to say. Games, like all narratives, mean things.
@@raymondthrone7197 sure i might feel a little bad. but i won't feel like im literally hitler when i do it. if we're going by your logic toby is the ultimate monster for even programming the route and making it possible.
@@raymondthrone7197 don't think Kris is any angel themself either. They could have resisted our orders. We didn't push Noelle to the force field in the annoying mouse room 2, Kris did. Kris could have just left the conversation with the sales person instead of getting the freeze ring. They're enjoying this as much as we do.
@@juanpedraw4245 So uh, I don't want to start a fight or anything, but I don't really agree that Kris is enjoying the weird route at all. In both of the segments that you used as examples to prove your point, it was the player continually picking the "proceed" and "get it" options until Noelle does what the player wants and ends up using her magic. At any point the player could have stopped the conversation with the sales person and could of picked the more friendly option in the annoying mouse room 2. The player clearly has more power over Kris, Although, Kris can resist slightly, they don't have as much power as you. For instance, when Kris hesitantly takes their brother's money, it was clear they didn't want to do that, but because the player has more control over Kris they took the money. Also, if you seen this entire route then you should know that Susie points out that Kris doesn't look well after you meet up with her again in this route. And if you didn't know, Kris has control over there face expressions, like how they closed their eyes when the player tells them to look in the room that had whatever Asriel had in his research history room in Queen's castle. Therefore, if Kris did like what they were doing, they probably wouldn't look as exhausted as they do, to a point that Susie feels the need to point it out. Was that too much? Sorry if that was the case, but that was just what I felt. If I said that was false though then tell me, I might have remembered some information wrong. But if you still feel differently than tell me why. But if don't want to then that's fine too. Honestly, I'm just surprised you took time out of your day too read all of this.
@@colt1903 in that case he would at least recognise you. the fact that he has no idea who you are and thinks you're a monster shows it. he literally had no idea there was a human murdering his entire race lmao
I’d like to have it stated that right as the screen goes to black during the ‘get the freeze ring’ scene, I got an ad for a horror movie called ‘Antlers’. Glad you guys are doing this ^^
Okay, an interesting few things I noticed as you progressed through the route (spoilers for those that haven't watched the video all the way through yet): As soon as you got the freeze ring, Noelle wasn't getting scared anymore when you entered a battle, and looked downwards instead of at the enemies. This also may be where her defend turns into an ice barrier instead of it just causing her to turn around and cover her face. There's also the snowglobe that shows up when you win, but you noticed that already. During the Berdly fight, his face doesn't have the smirk that it does in the coaster fight, his idle animation is slower, and the hole in his Halbird (yes, that's canonically what his weapon is called) disappeared. The only attack he does is the one you saw. If you pay attention to the music enough, the track that's playing during this is a slowed down version of the percussion from the music in the first fight with Berdly, called "Smart Race". When you defeated him, you didn't get any EXP or money, oddly enough. It didn't show the 'You won' screen at all, in fact, the fight ends by Kris sheathing their sword.
me: stumbling along through deltarune animatics youtube: [holds this video up on a platter] me: yeah okay casey: OH ---- THE TITTY DINOSAUR BOOK !!!!! me: yeah okay!!!
Anyone else notice how when you walk past the lightning fence, you can see her sprite move a bit as she considers stepping off the switch? I didn’t like that
Oh my gosh, I never tried calling Toriel while standing there with Alphys. I know this vid is "about Snowgrave" but that bit at the beginning put a big smile on my face.
Oh I really like your theories here, and god I look forward to seeing more your reactions to this route. it’s… it’s something Also, this isn’t a spoiler but it’s worth noting this theory to why this is called the “Weird route” officially. In a normal play-through at the end of spelling December, Noelle notes how only Kris knows how weird she is, and how everyone knows how weird they are. The weird pair of childhood neighbors that did weird things. Snowgrave to Noelle is just that, Kris being weirder than normal, and her going along with it
You thinking that Deltarune is "the next World" after the erasure of the world in UT was actually a common theory even before Chapter 2, and while im personally not sure whether I believe it or not, I would like to add some thoughts: "Let us erase this pointless world, and move on to the next". It sounds like the plan is to also erase this next world. What could be a way to erase the world? Bringing the Roaring. You, like many people (including myself), immidiatly assumed Kris was the Knight after the Chapter 2 ending. However, its just as likely that they only learned how to create a fountain from Queen, and that they arent the original Knight. Of course, when Queen talks about how the Knight created the Fountain, the visuals showed a knife wich implies it was Kris... But they arent the only character in UT/DR thats associated with knifes. I somehow doubt Mad Dummy is the Knight, so Chara has a high spot on my list of people that could potentially be the Knight
I have my doubts regarding the "Is all Chara's fault" for various reasons. I won't go all over the argument of fanon misconception scapegoat and the genocide being your fault or the Deltarune being separated from Undertale. Toby said you Could play DR after completing UT, but he said that UT world and ending will stay however you left them (he specifically talks abt them being happy), meaning if DR "happens after" UT it could happen after a pacifist route too. Nonetheless, I do think this could relate to Chara's words regarding you, the player. Regarding the "Don't forget" song.. idk, I'm clueless in this one at the moment.
I agree with you. Blaming Chara for possession or whatever in DR was the initial response most people had right after Chapter 1 came out. It's too easy to do that. But I don't think Chara's entirely unrelated to DR.
@@mehless it's possible Toby made Kris that way (green shirt, liking chocolate, hobbies involving knives) to trick ppl into thinking this is the Chara everyone thinks of. Similar to how he intended to trick ppl in chp 1 to think this was UT world.
You're in good company then, cuz we're ALL clueless. Deltarune's format is made to all but ensure we stay that way till like... The last 2 chapters, I'd wager.
Fun fact, you actually missed a scene tied to the weird route. Most people miss it since the first video on this route didn't find the cutscene, and since most people copied that guide a lot of people missed it. In Stupid Rat Room One there isn't actually anything stopping you from leaving without beating the puzzle. If you try to leave Noelle will tell you that you should go back, but you can keep doing it other and other again. I'd explain it in more detail but I'll leave it here in case you want to try it yourself.
It's not even unique to the Weird Route. You can "Proceed" past Annoying Mouse Room 1 in a pacifist game if you so choose, since all it involves is Noelle mustering enough courage to run past the mice - no freezing required.
Wow… The thumbnail for this video, I just noticed the difference with Kris now being on there with their eyes. What’s a bit weird feeling too is that, with the dialogue options, or even battles, there were so many times where the route could be dropped. I do hope you continue this, if only to see what happens, you guys are entertaining to watch.
I love how they take the opportunity the evil route provides to troll Alphys and Toriel and tell Susie to go to their house, you know all the real evil stuff!
5:25 i'm rewatching this and noticing how funny it is that the ONLY thing you command kris to do here is call toriel. saying "i'm normal" and trying to pass the phone to alphys is just something kris did because they thought it would be funny
Here are my (spoiler free) thoughts on Snowgrave. This may sound strange, but in my mind Noelle is a very strong parallel to Chara. If you read their dialogue, Chara says that when they woke up, they were confused, but YOU made them realise the purpose for their return was power. Or… to “eradicate the enemy and become strong.” Which is exactly Noelle’s justification for her own actions in Snowgrave. At the beginning of the No Mercy run, Chara is forced to watch you kill countless innocent monsters, plus their own mother. And since they know about the reset ability, they know absolutely nothing will stop you until you reach your goal, not even death. So Chara adapts. If they’re not your partner in crime, they’re another victim. But that doesn’t mean they like it. They convince themself murder is necessary to become strong (like Noelle), but once they realise that’s not your goal they become disgusted with your actions. If you try to come back to the world they say you think you are above consequences, and if you do another no mercy run, they say you are “wracked with a perverted sentimentality,” that you two are not the same, and they straight up tell you to do a different run. Honestly, Chara’s motivations are misconstructed a lot by people who don’t want to accept the blame for no mercy, and Snowgrave is a huge parallel to that.
@@ItsB1998 1. Chara uses they/them pronouns, if you can’t even get that right your knowledge of their character is clearly questionable 2. Chara doesn’t directly object to the run, but they do constantly berate you for it in the narration (they tell you a potted plant is judging your sins, ffs. Chara isn’t as direct a person as Noelle) 3. They erase the world to punish you for your actions. When you try to come back to it they tell you: “YOU were the one who pushed everything to its edge. But you cannot accept it. You think you are above consequences.” 4. They’re also much younger than Noelle, presumably. They’re an impressionable kid.
Wtf did I just found? To answer the 1° one, just because someone doesn't use said pronouns to a character doesn't automatically mean they're phobic in any way, also, while Kris is believed to be non-binary(since Toby Fox corrected someone), the same isn't the case to Frisk and Chara as he never talked about it, their gender can be interpreted in whatever way you want, and of course, you can call them by neutral pronouns if you see them that way, but you doesn't need to criticize someone if they don't think the same, respect their opinion and they may respect yours. To the 2° one, you have some points but Chara actually does have a bunch of similarities with Noelle like them using the same justification for their actions, some of the major differences tho is that Chara has been adapting to it while Noelle was in a trance and left after killing Berdly, also Chara has been part of the genocide route much longer than Noelle, as she's been in Snowgrave route for just half a chapter, so we doesn't know how Noelle will act yet(and damn, she can even be left aside for the rest of the game, who knows?), we still have to see how it turns out in the end, but I hope I got this explained better.
Absolutely loved this play-through! Loved the commentary, the general unease, the theorizing on how things were gonna go. I could feel the unease in the way you guys talked, and the reactions all just felt spot on! Great stuff! Uh, I do have a genuine question though. How are you guys generally with all the theorizing and lore explanations in the comments? Do you read it, or just skip over it? Do you save it for after everything’s done, or go into it after the video’s up? Like there is some primal part of me that wants to type a paragraph about all the cool lore deets and correct all the micro details you got wrong, but like I also don’t wanna come off as some obnoxious nerd? And I just wanted to know if you guys were actually fine with that sort of thing in your comments.
I read every comment, but don't always have the time to respond to everything, which is rough because I WANT to, but there's just not enough time in the day for me... That said, lore comments on series we're actively playing I tend to avoid until after the series is done, but once we've finished I love hearing people's thoughts! There are so many different perspectives, it's great!
i literally love this channel so much, unlike lots of others i feel as if though you actually care about the lore and you have a lot of commentary which i LOVEE!! i like how intrigued and expressive everything is!! this is probably my favorite channel so far omg
It is very enjoyable to listen to your thoughts/theories! This episodes Genocide theory was good, but personally I’m not sold on it (I can’t think of much solid evidence against it, I just don’t like it.) Snowgrave is SO much creepier than the Genocide route! I haven’t beaten it myself (I tried them messed it up and haven’t gotten around to trying again). Not only are you freezing everyone to what’s probably death, you’re also making Noelle, one of the sweetest characters in the game, actually commit this probably murder. Lovely.
I think one of the most jarring parts about the snow grave route is the satisfying sound of Ice Shock. It feels like something that genuinely belongs in that style of RPG. The only reason it’s not just a thoughtless button press is the lingering frozen enemies and the obvious story changes. But that satisfying little jingle sound lingers, there’s just always the slight hint of positive connotation with it. Even the way it’s portrayed in Noelle’s dialogue that they try to justify what they do like it’s a game she’s “just getting stronger” the only reason it’s not like that is the game and the world actually acknowledges what she’s doing. Pokémon feels a lot more messed up when your pet turtle gets charred to a crisp instead of just fainting. The reason this is bad because in the world it’s not just a game and because of that enemies don’t just twinkle away after a fight and you have to look at what you did. But hey after the first few paragraphs this probably sounded exactly like someone else’s take on snowgrave but really late
I'm just NOW watching the regular let's play. It has been a riot but after the like the third "dead bird" mention... I had to fast forward to see your reaction to... THIS. Very interesting :)
i dont think that deltarune has anything to do with chara besides sharing similarities in themes of power and control. in genocide chara tells us they were following the lead of us the player, the same way noelle is following the lead of kris (who is being controlled by the player). noelle justifies kris's directions as "getting stronger". chara says we taught them the purpose of their reincarnation was "power". LOVE in undertale is described as "the more you kill, the less you will hurt, the more easily you can bring yourself to hurt others". thats what we taught chara. thats what we taught noelle.
Noelle was nostalgic because Kris used to scare her for fun. It was their dynamic before Kris became a pawn for the player. Kris used to be someone before the player.
The post-geno theory has flaws. Toby is proud of Deltarune being its own thing and has stated DR has no bearing on whatever ending you left UT's world with, which is also very specific, but excludes the possibility of it being post-undertale by the nature of the way he words it. All the confirmed connections between DR and UT have been gaster related so far, I doubt that will change.
The thing is that there is chara (the character) and chara (the player). Thats why chara uses your name, and thats why at the end of genocide chara saids "destroy this world and go to the next one" It means to "delete this game and go to the next one" at the end of the genocide the game doesn't have anything more to give you, you beated every challenge the game had for you, the chara at the end of the genocide is your sentiment of having to do the games 100% and the genocide route is one part of that 100%
Both of your reactions with this route were the same as mine when I seen it pop on on TH-cam for the first time. I'm too much of a whimp to play this ending. 😅 Thank you for sharing this and interested to see more of your reactions on the next episode!
I like to believe that Chara wasn't inherently "Bad or Evil" during the events of Undertale. But rather a companion for Frisk and the player, other wise, how would we know so much about the underground, and Chara is the one replaying quotes from her past that asgore has said in order to encourage the player to do more good. Both in Undertale and Deltarune, the player is usually controlling a character through another character (frisk through Chara, and Noelle through Kris) in order to give the player the false sense that they aren't the bad guy in these stories.
*players proceed to make all the decisions for Kris in order to make the Weird Route happen and give Noelle trauma * Players: Why would Kris DO this???
@@ItsB1998 Given how it seems like you reply to everyone like this even though that isn't canonically confirmed one way or the other, I just want to ask you; What do you think is happening in the chapter endings? I really want to hear your opinion on this as someone who apparently doesn't think the Player exists as an entity in the game.
@@ItsB1998 I think most of what you're saying can easily be interpreted differently and make just as much sense. By what you claim, the Knight can control Kris just as effectively whether or not the soul is still within him, so then where is the motivation in tearing it out in the first place? There is also no evidence to claim that the things Kris does automatically are done without any struggle, as "soulless Kris" does actually use the normal walk animation while walking back to the sink in Chapter 2 which means we can't use the hunched over sprites as definite confirmation of struggle. Honestly, there is very real possibility that the entire plot about Kris being the one opening fountains could be a huge red herring overall. I just don't see any way of seeing our in-game actions as Kris' own without ignoring a lot that is directly said within the game, and there are a lot of details that seem meaningless outside that context. But, I suppose there isn't any concrete proof that Kris is being controlled within the normal gameplay as of yet, so there's little point in arguing until Chapter 3/4/5. One last thing I want to ask though, what is your interpretation on what is happening during the survey program sequence?
@@ItsB1998 However, the vessel created is, according to the data-miners, saved by the game, which implies that it will be relevant at some point. Also, the name we give ourselves gets used by save points and the town name. I guess I just don't buy it. I doubt Toby introduced two mysterious characters bound to the game by a pseudo-ARG just for a joke.
@@ItsB1998 The game uses two different speaker ID's for those two parts, though, which there is literally zero reason to do unless Toby wanted to make sure the two were different characters, because neither of them have a text sound or a character portrait that needs to be switched. Additionally, the Japanase translation makes the "two speakers" much more apparent, because the two parts are spoken in two distinct ways no one person would switch between on a whim. One part is written in Kanji and Katakana, while the other is written in Kanji and Hiragana, and both use an entirely different set of pronouns when referring to "you".
@@ItsB1998 Well, all of that was certainly deliberately done, whether or not it is apparent to someone casually playing the game. I guess we'll just have to see. We are at Chapter 2 of 7, after all.
I know this is two years old, but I theorize that there’s two sides to Kris: a good and bad one. The good side is the friendly, helpful one (obviously). I think Kris doesn’t like being controlled by us, but tolerates it cause we’re doing things he can’t bring himself to do by himself like talk to others and help others. Also, if he really want us to stop controlling him completely, he could just take us out and leave us somewhere, but he doesn’t cause he knows he needs us to make the choices and answers he can’t. As for the bad side, I think that’s how he is now. He’s probably fighting with his bad side and we make the choice on either the good in him prevails or he just keeps not caring about anything or anyone. Also, I like how in chapter 1, it shows how much he cares for Susie near the end since he, without any input from us, got up and immediately got in front of Susie to protect her. Also sorry if this theory is stupid.
When I first played chapter 2 blind, I got to noelle's firat fight and when she asked what we were doing. My first thought was "Kill". I was on pacifist so I didn't. But god I didn't know we'd actually get to do it
during that last fight birdly only dmgs kriss. if kriss goes down u get some new dialog between birdly and noelle. i suggest just watching it if u dont want to start over but it will put your view in new light. also a side note birdly doesnt use an axe. he uses a hal-bird (halberd)
I didn't like the genocide run in Undertale. But this route, it feels so so wrong. But it's nice you gave it a chance, because Toby made a really good job with the writting.
I think in chapter one when it says your choices don’t matter it was talking about kris not directly talking to you because you are controlling Kris your playing as kris so when they say YOUR choices don’t matter….. It might mean someone else:)
so i think the first chapter start was talking about kris not the player because kris probably waqnts to change (since they are bad at school dont have lots of friends etc) and the thing thats talking tells kris you dont choose who you are and your choices dont matter (because they will still be like that forever or something) but since in the first chapter we control kris nothing realy changes but since now we are manipulating noelle diferent things hapen because kris cant change things since their choices dont matter but noelle we are basically controling her like kris but her choices do matter
gahhhhh the projection of agency onto kris at 34:00-ish always feels like stubbing my toe when ppl talk deltarune theory (that said rlly dig the video! )
At 28:45 in case you missed it, which it sounded like you did, noelle does a small shuffle in place when kris gets to the laser. Indicating that noelle thought bout killing kris.
That line of dialogue from Chara is actually being misconstrued! They tell you to seek a different *path* , to wipe away this save file so you can move on to a better route, even Flowey talks about worlds & *his* worlds, but they just mean save files. They don't want to kill monsters, you only fed them that LV & EXP, they tried to save monsterkind with Asriel even though it went bad. They want you to do a pacifist route, they're not a murderer, or a bad kid - they're just easily influenced like Noelle :( Chara & Noelle parallel very well, with the 'getting stronger' & becoming less timid. It's actually more backed up that Kris' soul is the red soul from a pacifist run! ^.^
Sth could've happened if you iet Kris be defeated by Berdly. I was really curious on hearing Casey's thoughts regarding Berdly cuz I know they don't really like him and in this scene he's, wow.. it almost doesn't feel like Berdly.
If you complete the Genocide Run twice, Chara says that "we eradicated the enemy and became strong". And here, Noelle rationalizes following Kris' orders because she's "getting stronger". Maybe a sign that BOTH have been manipulated into violence by the Player.
@@georgy2596 Chara has plenty of backstory and seems to speak directly to the player, which would be odd if they're supposed to be a player stand-in. But it's ambiguous enough to allow for that interpretation. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
there is two people controlling kris you and The mystery person who takes out they soul that is The player and The mystery person takes out the soul so they can get more control of kris The mystery person is not the knight since they have no idea of the fountain in chapter 1 so my prediction is it’s something related to gaster
While i don't particularly believe that chara has anything at all to do with deltarune, i can see an instance that could be explained with chara, such as the player being connected to kris (since kris was clearly "fine" before the events of the game, before we take control) perhaps chara is the one who made that connection. This theory has practically no evidence... like, at all. I also don't particularly take the "for those that *completed* undertale" the same way you do. It seems like deltarune is an AU rather than being directly connected to undertale in a timeline based manner. I think this means that it's meant for those who have seen most of the dialouge options so that you understand the referances, tiny hints and other things that relate to the returning characters or the world lore in general (though it seems like deltarune may not follow the exact same "rules" as undertale does because of a few pieces of dialouge) I also personally doubt that toby wants anything to be connected to the genocide route as it goes against everything undertale stands for, i think if it were connected directly to undertale it would be through the pacifist route. That also has no evidence, just a hunch. I just want to put a little reminder out there. This is your fault, as the player. We may not know kris's ideals or wants, but to clarify, this is not kris. This is you. This is part of why i don't like the thing about chara. The game seems to be really pushing that you are the bad guy in some way, shape, or form no matter what, and connecting chara seems to (directly or indirectly) put blame on them instead of you.
@@ItsB1998 this is something i'm pretty confused about currently, and it's something that will probably get answered as more chapters come out. We don't really know *how much* control we have over kris. While we may not physically control kris, they always do what we say no matter what, even when it's very clear kris disagrees. This begs the question "why does kris listen to us when they dislike our decisions". They also hesitate when told to say specific things. So it seems that the player does have significant control over most of kris's actions, but we don't know the specifics.
@@ItsB1998 the most substantial of these hesitations though, is the post-spamton neo fight where kris is at an extremely low mental position after assumedly being traumatized by spamtons puppet situation. It's very clear that kris wants to say "no" because they starts yelling it. When you say "yes" they say it very strained, as if they're physically trying to say otherwise. Kris does things you tell them to do whether they like it or not, such as being affectionate towards ralsie (if tea theory is true). It's clear kris is not entirely in control or else why would they do things they dislike, and why would they be so traumatized by spamton's puppet theme.
@@ItsB1998 that is a possibility, i do want to point out that ralsei could be just trying to end the conversation as he acts suspiciously during the start trying to brush things off like nothing happened. This could be ralsei just trying to be nice and not bringing up the event that clearly scared kris, or it could be ralsei trying to get everyone to stop asking questions. As i said, we have *just* enough info to make these theories with little evidence, but not quite enough to draw much of a conclusion, since both of us can keep giving alternate scenarios depending on the same dialouge.
(haven't watched yet) HAHA UH OH 😃 Edit: About your Chara suggestion, I personally don't think that Chara _wanted_ to mess things up at all in Undertale. But yes, what the player does in the genocide route could've persuaded them to believe killing is the right thing and move on to Deltarune?
hold on a fucking second. 'when i see a big pit, all i wanna do is jump in'. asriel confessing his sin of throwing not-yoshi in the pit to jump higher, even though he loves not-yoshi and had at least one birthday party themed after him. susiezilla on tv. the high likelihood that the not-mario game is in the house and will therefore be in ch 3. its all fucking connected man spamton was highly linked to kris, ch 3s secret boss will be highly linked to susie and not-yoshi. both susie and the preacher talking about asriels sins specifically used the word pit, not cliff or edge etc which would also be realistic to a not-mario game. sorry for randomly posting this on an old video i just never noticed that dialogue link before, since most people dont pick that option
![TEEDEE TADA - DIAMOND NARAKORN X LEGO LYKN [Special Dance Performance]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QgtZedFeumA/mqdefault.jpg)
![งมหอย จับปลา มือเปล่า หาอยู่หากินแบบวีถีอีสานกับแก๊งเซียนหรั่ง ม่วนคัก! [ขอนแก่น] @Sianstudio](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/JEJZg6N-AbU/mqdefault.jpg)
You couldn’t imagine the reaction people had when they first started hearing whispers about this route a day or two after the game came out. Someone on Reddit was documenting it on a Google Doc and it sounded so much like a creepypasta, it was unnerving
Yeah I didnt even believe it was real till I saw it
Everyone thought it was a hoax until actual videos of the frozen enemies started popping up. It just sounds so fake.
I was reading the thread on reddit and I was like "nah this is some kind of collaborative community troll all the people in the comments talking about it being real are in on it."
I actually didn't believe it at first because the steps seem just too specific, at first we haven't known that some choices like the ferries wheel choices are completely optional
I was SO certain it was just some fake "mew under the truck" stuff, I was wrong.
"It's so funny she's afraid of cars because she's a dear."
Me: ...How the hell did I miss that?
There’s a bunch of mentions to this fact, for another example she freezes when she sees the fireworks
She's a dear deer!
Protecc Noelle!
@@The_Rising_Dragon more like corrupt her
Same
@@adrigl3371 actually, from her dialogue it seems like she’s a fan of fireworks
Not so fun fact: If you attempt to equip the Thorn Ring to either Ralsei or Susie neither of them will take it and they will seem disturbed by it, with Susie straight up calling it "A torture device?"
oh god
well you know what they say.
what doesn't kill you,
*makes you stronger.*
@Filip Sobczak lmao sorry not sorry
@Filip Sobczak *not even a like can save you now, my friend =D*
obvs
it is literally a ring of thorns
and it will cut your skin when you try to put it on
Fun fact! If you hurt the darkners in ch1, they'll still be in the town. Susiw will be like "Hey, didn't we beat those guys up?" and Lancer goes "I convinced them you're nice :)"
yeah, that was added in with a patch
Wait that's adorable
55:22 I think one of my favorite details about this path is how they show that Berdly is being VERY serious. He's not smirking, he's not trash talking you, his attacks are tougher, _he doesn't even target Noelle._
Also there's some unique dialogue if Kris goes down in this fight as well as a unique act for Kris, but I'm not sure if it would be spoilery for me to comment what happens with these.
Berdly goes from being annoying kid, to one of my favourite characters in this route.
:(
@Flower Gaming Or its just that hes making an effort to NOT attack noelle
@Flower Gaming Lmao its true based on the dialogue
Even noelle asks "WHY ARE YOU ATTACKING ME"
but since in this case he thinks Noelle really is in danger so he decided to fight kris and make him stop manipulate Noelle by force
edit:Forgot to mention thats why i think Berdly is one of the Best characters in chapter 2
Berdly did say “this nay hurt, but it’s for your own good” to noelle in the normal fight
Another detail is that thr weapon of Berdly in the fight dont have de eye open like in a normal route
31:10 you see, the cool thing about that is that the message of the game is that YOUR choices don't matter. But what would happen if you were to manipulate someone else into making them choices for you...?
You're playing a human...that becomes a monster.
The more you know
i dont think thats it because choosing to manipulate is a choice
i believe its talking about kris and how they're not in control
@@kildaverYour are the monster as the player pushing Noelle to the edge with your voice. If Kris goes down when fighting Noelle comments on how she can still hear you(the player).
Honestly saying the message of Deltarune is "your choices don't matter" is like saying the message of Undertale is "kill or be killed"
the lack of kris's moss eating urges are actually imo a sign that they aren't really there anymore. it's you. the player. you don't eat moss. it's just some moss. you have better things to do like forcing noelle to murder.
@@ItsB1998 i meant not there in that moment. theres some dialogue at points later on in the route that i wont say here for spoiler reasons that heavily imply the players complete and full control over kris’s body throughout the route, up until they tear the soul out and do their dark fountainy thing.
@@ItsB1998 kris probably opened up the next dark world to make sure that we DONT get the chance to have another snowgrave moment. just look who's gonna be in the next dark world: susie who has repeatedly shown resistance to our choices, kris's own mother who we know is firm and steadfast about her morals, and officer undyne (aka the heroine) is on her way too. kris likely set it up this way to make sure there would be no one that can be easily manipulated.
plus kris has dialog trying to tell undyne about the dark world and has shown many times how fond they are of susie compared to other characters. kris obviously is trying to surround themself with people that wont listen to us
Incorrect. If I were truly the player I would force myself to eat moss constantly 24/7
I don't think Kris even likes eating moss, i think Kris is being forced to eat the moss against there will, just for our laughs
@@Kromer__ Their reactions are their own. It is said multiple times that they seem happy when we make them eat moss. Kris does seem to enjoy eating moss. Maybe it's because they want to be more monster-like? And Toriel, Asgore, and Asriel are goats, and goats eat all kinds of weird stuff, so... Maybe Kris is trying to be more like them by eating weird stuff?
Or maybe Kris is just weird. Either way, they seem to genuinely enjoy when we have them eat moss.
Toby Fox made a "lost episode"-type creepypasta of his own game. What a power move.
Undertale genocide run is also a creepypasta!
@@ms042-yc4gxI mean it kinda feels like one with the one hit bosses, empty rooms, slowed down music, red text, sans bleeding, and Chara's jumpscare
It's actually possible to use snowgrave outside the berdly battle by initiating it then fighting him normally. It will knock you off the weird route and back to neutral but you can go and touch some cheese to use the spell.
Interestingly enough the enemies don't neither freeze nor run away they instead *turn to dust*
Didn't that get patched out?
That got patched out, leaving sth more interesting.
It is possible to complete kill someone, but we WEREN'T supposed to know that.
I know it got patched out and all, but this is very incriminating towards Undertale's monsters, knowing that both monsters and darkners turn to dust.
@@Rodowain it did? Opps
It wasn't patched out. The only change is that Snowgrave disappears from Noelle's spell list if you spare Berdly. But you can still keep it if you fight Berdly. Interestingly enough, Noelle doesn't do her "Looks like Kris snapped out of whatever that was" monologue if you fight Berdly instead of sparing him, which almost feels intentional.
55 (which is the health that Noelle has with the thorn ring) in roman numbers is LV
Oh shit why is no one talking about this?
a lot of people mention this but it's probably just a coincidence, 55 is also exactly one third of noelle's health, rounded down
@@TempestKrimps I think it's too specific to be a coincidence
Classic Toby
Wait it stops there intentionally?!
I'm not sure if it's intentional but I feel like the enemies remaining frozen after battle is supposed to be a very dark pun about computers/computer programs (especially on older systems like the ones in the Light World library) freezing up
Thats actually really clever
I feel like it is, since the worst thing to happen to a computer for all people with a computer is a blue screen aka a freeze, it can't really run if it does that...
Since otherwise they run away, after all, they're data, you can't kill data! But they can't *RUN* If they're frozen..
And we know Toby is a clever bastard like that.
Berdly and Noelle have special dialog if Kris goes down during the Berdly fight. Berdly questions why Noelle still doesn't come with him and she says that she can still hear Kris' voice. Also Noelle's defend animation changed to use an ice wall instead of just her arms.
The way Toby Fox makes the genocide or evil routes... they feel bad. The way this chapter focuses on the manipulation of Noelle is harrowing. It feels wrong.
For sure
I've never had the guts to do either genocide or Snowgrave, i'm too easily upset. These routes just aren't fun and thats why it's so great
@@SandyTheDesertFox same, they create a visceral reaction, and is a great testimony to how good Toby fox is.
aww
to me they're a lot of fun
I'm amazed that despite the "you're despicable" elements of thus route and undertale, there's still new information and insights to make it worth looking at. Also nice to see even soulless Kris can disapprove.
to be honest i never got how people interpret genocide or snowgrave as "you're despicable" , it always just seemed like it was a alternate take on the story toby added for those who are really attached to the world.
the fact that people want to make it a proof of real life morals is stupid
@@heartbae87 Mate if you don't see any inherent judgement in the narrative of you (not Kris, you, the player of the game) manipulating a girl into being your personal plaything and tool, I dunno what to say. Games, like all narratives, mean things.
@@raymondthrone7197 sure i might feel a little bad. but i won't feel like im literally hitler when i do it.
if we're going by your logic toby is the ultimate monster for even programming the route and making it possible.
@@raymondthrone7197 don't think Kris is any angel themself either. They could have resisted our orders. We didn't push Noelle to the force field in the annoying mouse room 2, Kris did. Kris could have just left the conversation with the sales person instead of getting the freeze ring. They're enjoying this as much as we do.
@@juanpedraw4245 So uh, I don't want to start a fight or anything, but I don't really agree that Kris is enjoying the weird route at all. In both of the segments that you used as examples to prove your point, it was the player continually picking the "proceed" and "get it" options until Noelle does what the player wants and ends up using her magic. At any point the player could have stopped the conversation with the sales person and could of picked the more friendly option in the annoying mouse room 2. The player clearly has more power over Kris, Although, Kris can resist slightly, they don't have as much power as you. For instance, when Kris hesitantly takes their brother's money, it was clear they didn't want to do that, but because the player has more control over Kris they took the money. Also, if you seen this entire route then you should know that Susie points out that Kris doesn't look well after you meet up with her again in this route. And if you didn't know, Kris has control over there face expressions, like how they closed their eyes when the player tells them to look in the room that had whatever Asriel had in his research history room in Queen's castle. Therefore, if Kris did like what they were doing, they probably wouldn't look as exhausted as they do, to a point that Susie feels the need to point it out.
Was that too much? Sorry if that was the case, but that was just what I felt. If I said that was false though then tell me, I might have remembered some information wrong. But if you still feel differently than tell me why. But if don't want to then that's fine too. Honestly, I'm just surprised you took time out of your day too read all of this.
"Queen's evacuating, right?"
Meanwhile Queen: Has no idea what's going on.
"by now Alphys has told ASGORE to absorb the six human souls!"
asgore: dum dee dum water me flowers
@@Tulip_bip I think Asgore didn't believe you could make it past Sans.
@@colt1903
in that case he would at least recognise you. the fact that he has no idea who you are and thinks you're a monster shows it. he literally had no idea there was a human murdering his entire race lmao
@@Tulip_bip idk why but i read the asgore segment in markiplier voucr
@@colt1903 asgore clearly didn't know what you even were
Honestly, Casey reading Noelle's lines before casting Snowgrave was chilling. Like, actually good voice acting, intentional or not.
I’d like to have it stated that right as the screen goes to black during the ‘get the freeze ring’ scene, I got an ad for a horror movie called ‘Antlers’.
Glad you guys are doing this ^^
LOL
LMAOOO
Bruh...
Omega lul in the chat
TH-cam, you're not supposed to endorse these things.
Mabyes it's trying to send a message.
Okay, an interesting few things I noticed as you progressed through the route (spoilers for those that haven't watched the video all the way through yet):
As soon as you got the freeze ring, Noelle wasn't getting scared anymore when you entered a battle, and looked downwards instead of at the enemies. This also may be where her defend turns into an ice barrier instead of it just causing her to turn around and cover her face. There's also the snowglobe that shows up when you win, but you noticed that already.
During the Berdly fight, his face doesn't have the smirk that it does in the coaster fight, his idle animation is slower, and the hole in his Halbird (yes, that's canonically what his weapon is called) disappeared. The only attack he does is the one you saw. If you pay attention to the music enough, the track that's playing during this is a slowed down version of the percussion from the music in the first fight with Berdly, called "Smart Race". When you defeated him, you didn't get any EXP or money, oddly enough. It didn't show the 'You won' screen at all, in fact, the fight ends by Kris sheathing their sword.
me: stumbling along through deltarune animatics
youtube: [holds this video up on a platter]
me: yeah okay
casey: OH ---- THE TITTY DINOSAUR BOOK !!!!!
me: yeah okay!!!
18:33 At this puzzle you could actually keep going since there's barrier blocking the way, which would've led to a very fitting dialogue.
Anyone else notice how when you walk past the lightning fence, you can see her sprite move a bit as she considers stepping off the switch? I didn’t like that
She also has special dialogues if you interact with her in that same scene, I think there's 4, in front, the side, behind and if you leave
That happens when you cross coordinate 666, a number associated with Gaster
Oh my gosh, I never tried calling Toriel while standing there with Alphys. I know this vid is "about Snowgrave" but that bit at the beginning put a big smile on my face.
47:50 That is actually the only door I tried to interact with. And only on this route. What are the odds of that lmao
55:55 note on her current hp, convert that to roman numbers and you get LV
Holy shit that timestamp
@@KingOfDarknessAndEvil I had a convenient moment, would be a waste not to use it
That time stamp officially makes it the best comment version of this comment on this video, holy shit.
Lol the timestamp makes It even better XD
LV:LV
Oh I really like your theories here, and god I look forward to seeing more your reactions to this route. it’s… it’s something
Also, this isn’t a spoiler but it’s worth noting this theory to why this is called the “Weird route” officially. In a normal play-through at the end of spelling December, Noelle notes how only Kris knows how weird she is, and how everyone knows how weird they are. The weird pair of childhood neighbors that did weird things.
Snowgrave to Noelle is just that, Kris being weirder than normal, and her going along with it
You thinking that Deltarune is "the next World" after the erasure of the world in UT was actually a common theory even before Chapter 2, and while im personally not sure whether I believe it or not, I would like to add some thoughts:
"Let us erase this pointless world, and move on to the next". It sounds like the plan is to also erase this next world. What could be a way to erase the world? Bringing the Roaring. You, like many people (including myself), immidiatly assumed Kris was the Knight after the Chapter 2 ending. However, its just as likely that they only learned how to create a fountain from Queen, and that they arent the original Knight. Of course, when Queen talks about how the Knight created the Fountain, the visuals showed a knife wich implies it was Kris... But they arent the only character in UT/DR thats associated with knifes. I somehow doubt Mad Dummy is the Knight, so Chara has a high spot on my list of people that could potentially be the Knight
I have my doubts regarding the "Is all Chara's fault" for various reasons.
I won't go all over the argument of fanon misconception scapegoat and the genocide being your fault or the Deltarune being separated from Undertale. Toby said you Could play DR after completing UT, but he said that UT world and ending will stay however you left them (he specifically talks abt them being happy), meaning if DR "happens after" UT it could happen after a pacifist route too.
Nonetheless, I do think this could relate to Chara's words regarding you, the player.
Regarding the "Don't forget" song.. idk, I'm clueless in this one at the moment.
I know ppl are gonna jump at me for the Chara stament, I won't discuss with anyone.
I agree with you. Blaming Chara for possession or whatever in DR was the initial response most people had right after Chapter 1 came out. It's too easy to do that. But I don't think Chara's entirely unrelated to DR.
@@mehless it's possible Toby made Kris that way (green shirt, liking chocolate, hobbies involving knives) to trick ppl into thinking this is the Chara everyone thinks of.
Similar to how he intended to trick ppl in chp 1 to think this was UT world.
YOU ARE CHARA
CHARA IS YOU
THERE IS A REASON IT USES THE NAME YOU CHOOSE
You're in good company then, cuz we're ALL clueless. Deltarune's format is made to all but ensure we stay that way till like... The last 2 chapters, I'd wager.
Also Chara said: "Thanks to you, we eradicated the enemy and became stronger."
Fun fact, you actually missed a scene tied to the weird route. Most people miss it since the first video on this route didn't find the cutscene, and since most people copied that guide a lot of people missed it. In Stupid Rat Room One there isn't actually anything stopping you from leaving without beating the puzzle. If you try to leave Noelle will tell you that you should go back, but you can keep doing it other and other again. I'd explain it in more detail but I'll leave it here in case you want to try it yourself.
i thought it was important to the route but i guess not
It's not even unique to the Weird Route. You can "Proceed" past Annoying Mouse Room 1 in a pacifist game if you so choose, since all it involves is Noelle mustering enough courage to run past the mice - no freezing required.
@@HeroicJay yeah that makes sense now
Wow…
The thumbnail for this video, I just noticed the difference with Kris now being on there with their eyes.
What’s a bit weird feeling too is that, with the dialogue options, or even battles, there were so many times where the route could be dropped.
I do hope you continue this, if only to see what happens, you guys are entertaining to watch.
i feel like this route encapsulates a mentally abusive relationship and its heart breaking
I love how they take the opportunity the evil route provides to troll Alphys and Toriel and tell Susie to go to their house, you know all the real evil stuff!
Just a tip: in the hospital scene at the end of this route, you can walk right towards Noelle
Actually, I think any direction works.
i’m very excited, i loved your other deltarune let’s play
5:25 i'm rewatching this and noticing how funny it is that the ONLY thing you command kris to do here is call toriel. saying "i'm normal" and trying to pass the phone to alphys is just something kris did because they thought it would be funny
Here are my (spoiler free) thoughts on Snowgrave. This may sound strange, but in my mind Noelle is a very strong parallel to Chara. If you read their dialogue, Chara says that when they woke up, they were confused, but YOU made them realise the purpose for their return was power. Or… to “eradicate the enemy and become strong.” Which is exactly Noelle’s justification for her own actions in Snowgrave. At the beginning of the No Mercy run, Chara is forced to watch you kill countless innocent monsters, plus their own mother. And since they know about the reset ability, they know absolutely nothing will stop you until you reach your goal, not even death. So Chara adapts. If they’re not your partner in crime, they’re another victim. But that doesn’t mean they like it. They convince themself murder is necessary to become strong (like Noelle), but once they realise that’s not your goal they become disgusted with your actions. If you try to come back to the world they say you think you are above consequences, and if you do another no mercy run, they say you are “wracked with a perverted sentimentality,” that you two are not the same, and they straight up tell you to do a different run. Honestly, Chara’s motivations are misconstructed a lot by people who don’t want to accept the blame for no mercy, and Snowgrave is a huge parallel to that.
@@ItsB1998 1. Chara uses they/them pronouns, if you can’t even get that right your knowledge of their character is clearly questionable
2. Chara doesn’t directly object to the run, but they do constantly berate you for it in the narration (they tell you a potted plant is judging your sins, ffs. Chara isn’t as direct a person as Noelle)
3. They erase the world to punish you for your actions. When you try to come back to it they tell you: “YOU were the one who pushed everything to its edge. But you cannot accept it. You think you are above consequences.”
4. They’re also much younger than Noelle, presumably. They’re an impressionable kid.
@@ItsB1998 okay I’m not conversing with someone who’s transphobic. Have a nice day
@@ItsB1998 yeah thousands of people can be transphobic, as it turns out. I said I’m not talking to you if you’re going to misgender them. Bye.
@@ItsB1998 bro what. I just said I wouldn’t talk to you, you’re the one seething
Wtf did I just found?
To answer the 1° one, just because someone doesn't use said pronouns to a character doesn't automatically mean they're phobic in any way, also, while Kris is believed to be non-binary(since Toby Fox corrected someone), the same isn't the case to Frisk and Chara as he never talked about it, their gender can be interpreted in whatever way you want, and of course, you can call them by neutral pronouns if you see them that way, but you doesn't need to criticize someone if they don't think the same, respect their opinion and they may respect yours.
To the 2° one, you have some points but Chara actually does have a bunch of similarities with Noelle like them using the same justification for their actions, some of the major differences tho is that Chara has been adapting to it while Noelle was in a trance and left after killing Berdly, also Chara has been part of the genocide route much longer than Noelle, as she's been in Snowgrave route for just half a chapter, so we doesn't know how Noelle will act yet(and damn, she can even be left aside for the rest of the game, who knows?), we still have to see how it turns out in the end, but I hope I got this explained better.
Absolutely loved this play-through!
Loved the commentary, the general unease, the theorizing on how things were gonna go. I could feel the unease in the way you guys talked, and the reactions all just felt spot on! Great stuff!
Uh, I do have a genuine question though.
How are you guys generally with all the theorizing and lore explanations in the comments?
Do you read it, or just skip over it? Do you save it for after everything’s done, or go into it after the video’s up?
Like there is some primal part of me that wants to type a paragraph about all the cool lore deets and correct all the micro details you got wrong, but like I also don’t wanna come off as some obnoxious nerd? And I just wanted to know if you guys were actually fine with that sort of thing in your comments.
I read every comment, but don't always have the time to respond to everything, which is rough because I WANT to, but there's just not enough time in the day for me... That said, lore comments on series we're actively playing I tend to avoid until after the series is done, but once we've finished I love hearing people's thoughts! There are so many different perspectives, it's great!
i literally love this channel so much, unlike lots of others i feel as if though you actually care about the lore and you have a lot of commentary which i LOVEE!! i like how intrigued and expressive everything is!! this is probably my favorite channel so far omg
It is very enjoyable to listen to your thoughts/theories! This episodes Genocide theory was good, but personally I’m not sold on it (I can’t think of much solid evidence against it, I just don’t like it.) Snowgrave is SO much creepier than the Genocide route! I haven’t beaten it myself (I tried them messed it up and haven’t gotten around to trying again). Not only are you freezing everyone to what’s probably death, you’re also making Noelle, one of the sweetest characters in the game, actually commit this probably murder. Lovely.
I think one of the most jarring parts about the snow grave route is the satisfying sound of Ice Shock. It feels like something that genuinely belongs in that style of RPG. The only reason it’s not just a thoughtless button press is the lingering frozen enemies and the obvious story changes. But that satisfying little jingle sound lingers, there’s just always the slight hint of positive connotation with it. Even the way it’s portrayed in Noelle’s dialogue that they try to justify what they do like it’s a game she’s “just getting stronger” the only reason it’s not like that is the game and the world actually acknowledges what she’s doing. Pokémon feels a lot more messed up when your pet turtle gets charred to a crisp instead of just fainting. The reason this is bad because in the world it’s not just a game and because of that enemies don’t just twinkle away after a fight and you have to look at what you did. But hey after the first few paragraphs this probably sounded exactly like someone else’s take on snowgrave but really late
The snowgrave route is living proof that you can do the same thing twice and still impress people.
I'm just NOW watching the regular let's play. It has been a riot but after the like the third "dead bird" mention... I had to fast forward to see your reaction to... THIS.
Very interesting :)
i dont think that deltarune has anything to do with chara besides sharing similarities in themes of power and control. in genocide chara tells us they were following the lead of us the player, the same way noelle is following the lead of kris (who is being controlled by the player). noelle justifies kris's directions as "getting stronger". chara says we taught them the purpose of their reincarnation was "power". LOVE in undertale is described as "the more you kill, the less you will hurt, the more easily you can bring yourself to hurt others". thats what we taught chara. thats what we taught noelle.
uh oh I....uh...I both wanna see your reactions but also... don't wanna you experience it...
just...hope you can manage
Noelle was nostalgic because Kris used to scare her for fun. It was their dynamic before Kris became a pawn for the player. Kris used to be someone before the player.
Well let's look on the bright side of this route. Now we have a personal museum for all the enemies
I mean you actually get one in pacifist, except that they're, you know, not dead.
This is an underrated channel your content comes just about equal to youtubers with millions of subscribers, keep up the good work
28:44 Look at Noelle. Notice the walking animation. You can physically see how she considered stepping off the button and zapping Kris with the laser
The post-geno theory has flaws.
Toby is proud of Deltarune being its own thing and has stated DR has no bearing on whatever ending you left UT's world with, which is also very specific, but excludes the possibility of it being post-undertale by the nature of the way he words it.
All the confirmed connections between DR and UT have been gaster related so far, I doubt that will change.
The thing is that there is chara (the character) and chara (the player).
Thats why chara uses your name, and thats why at the end of genocide chara saids "destroy this world and go to the next one" It means to "delete this game and go to the next one" at the end of the genocide the game doesn't have anything more to give you, you beated every challenge the game had for you, the chara at the end of the genocide is your sentiment of having to do the games 100% and the genocide route is one part of that 100%
Both of your reactions with this route were the same as mine when I seen it pop on on TH-cam for the first time. I'm too much of a whimp to play this ending. 😅
Thank you for sharing this and interested to see more of your reactions on the next episode!
Flowey: "At least we're better than the sickos that just sit there and watch it happen!"
@@colt1903 What I reminnd myself everytime I watch others play the genocide routes. SUE ME FLOWEY! Rofl! 😂
I like to believe that Chara wasn't inherently "Bad or Evil" during the events of Undertale. But rather a companion for Frisk and the player, other wise, how would we know so much about the underground, and Chara is the one replaying quotes from her past that asgore has said in order to encourage the player to do more good. Both in Undertale and Deltarune, the player is usually controlling a character through another character (frisk through Chara, and Noelle through Kris) in order to give the player the false sense that they aren't the bad guy in these stories.
Ah yes the "I Am a Jerk and I'm proud of it" route😂😂
For me, this was more of the "I'm Morbidly Curious" route...
For me it was the "people won't shut the hell up about this route so fuck it let's play it first" route.
@@colt1903 These days, they really don't.
They said u have no choices
*BUT THEY DIDNT SAID ANYTHING ABOUT OTHERS*
*players proceed to make all the decisions for Kris in order to make the Weird Route happen and give Noelle trauma *
Players: Why would Kris DO this???
@@ItsB1998 Given how it seems like you reply to everyone like this even though that isn't canonically confirmed one way or the other, I just want to ask you; What do you think is happening in the chapter endings? I really want to hear your opinion on this as someone who apparently doesn't think the Player exists as an entity in the game.
@@ItsB1998 I think most of what you're saying can easily be interpreted differently and make just as much sense. By what you claim, the Knight can control Kris just as effectively whether or not the soul is still within him, so then where is the motivation in tearing it out in the first place? There is also no evidence to claim that the things Kris does automatically are done without any struggle, as "soulless Kris" does actually use the normal walk animation while walking back to the sink in Chapter 2 which means we can't use the hunched over sprites as definite confirmation of struggle. Honestly, there is very real possibility that the entire plot about Kris being the one opening fountains could be a huge red herring overall.
I just don't see any way of seeing our in-game actions as Kris' own without ignoring a lot that is directly said within the game, and there are a lot of details that seem meaningless outside that context. But, I suppose there isn't any concrete proof that Kris is being controlled within the normal gameplay as of yet, so there's little point in arguing until Chapter 3/4/5. One last thing I want to ask though, what is your interpretation on what is happening during the survey program sequence?
@@ItsB1998 However, the vessel created is, according to the data-miners, saved by the game, which implies that it will be relevant at some point. Also, the name we give ourselves gets used by save points and the town name.
I guess I just don't buy it. I doubt Toby introduced two mysterious characters bound to the game by a pseudo-ARG just for a joke.
@@ItsB1998 The game uses two different speaker ID's for those two parts, though, which there is literally zero reason to do unless Toby wanted to make sure the two were different characters, because neither of them have a text sound or a character portrait that needs to be switched.
Additionally, the Japanase translation makes the "two speakers" much more apparent, because the two parts are spoken in two distinct ways no one person would switch between on a whim. One part is written in Kanji and Katakana, while the other is written in Kanji and Hiragana, and both use an entirely different set of pronouns when referring to "you".
@@ItsB1998 Well, all of that was certainly deliberately done, whether or not it is apparent to someone casually playing the game.
I guess we'll just have to see. We are at Chapter 2 of 7, after all.
AND THEY EVEN USED THE COOLEST NAME MY MAAAAAAAAAAAN!!!
Ooh Kris already planned on going to the library
"let's erase this pointless world and move on to the next"
~Chara
13 minutes ago it got really cold in my room. I see why now lol
I know this is two years old, but I theorize that there’s two sides to Kris: a good and bad one. The good side is the friendly, helpful one (obviously). I think Kris doesn’t like being controlled by us, but tolerates it cause we’re doing things he can’t bring himself to do by himself like talk to others and help others. Also, if he really want us to stop controlling him completely, he could just take us out and leave us somewhere, but he doesn’t cause he knows he needs us to make the choices and answers he can’t. As for the bad side, I think that’s how he is now. He’s probably fighting with his bad side and we make the choice on either the good in him prevails or he just keeps not caring about anything or anyone. Also, I like how in chapter 1, it shows how much he cares for Susie near the end since he, without any input from us, got up and immediately got in front of Susie to protect her.
Also sorry if this theory is stupid.
duuude snowgrave gave me chills (lol) the first time i watched a playthrough of it
Call me the theory of relativity cuz I CLICKED AT THE SPEED OF LIGHT BABYYY
HELL YEAH
When I first played chapter 2 blind, I got to noelle's firat fight and when she asked what we were doing. My first thought was "Kill". I was on pacifist so I didn't. But god I didn't know we'd actually get to do it
during that last fight birdly only dmgs kriss. if kriss goes down u get some new dialog between birdly and noelle. i suggest just watching it if u dont want to start over but it will put your view in new light. also a side note birdly doesnt use an axe. he uses a hal-bird (halberd)
Oh look a new series! I wonder what it's on!
*Sees title*
O h .
Look at your powers. Her boldness is increasing through evil means. And your roles have changed.
It's actually a good idea to fight and gain LV in this rout...
You don't *NEED* it... but you need it...
You don’t gain levels in deltarune by fighting. LV is gained by sealing fountains
@@georgy2596
True, but you do get increases to your attack and HP stats... it's not seen as leveling in the game, but it functions the same...
Holy shit they’re doing it I’m so happy asdfgghh-
I didn't like the genocide run in Undertale. But this route, it feels so so wrong. But it's nice you gave it a chance, because Toby made a really good job with the writting.
11:20 magical glass that covers up a gap when you step on it!
Welcome to the SNOWGRAVE route please enjoy your stay.
I think in chapter one when it says your choices don’t matter it was talking about kris not directly talking to you because you are controlling Kris your playing as kris so when they say YOUR choices don’t matter…..
It might mean someone else:)
Creature with giant rainbow wings = neo suit (used by spamton) . “Never see the light of day” 🤔🤔🤔
I love seeing people get so shook with Undertale/Deltarune content xD
so i think the first chapter start was talking about kris not the player because kris probably waqnts to change (since they are bad at school dont have lots of friends etc) and the thing thats talking tells kris you dont choose who you are and your choices dont matter (because they will still be like that forever or something) but since in the first chapter we control kris nothing realy changes but since now we are manipulating noelle diferent things hapen because kris cant change things since their choices dont matter but noelle we are basically controling her like kris but her choices do matter
gahhhhh the projection of agency onto kris at 34:00-ish always feels like stubbing my toe when ppl talk deltarune theory
(that said rlly dig the video! )
At 28:45 in case you missed it, which it sounded like you did, noelle does a small shuffle in place when kris gets to the laser. Indicating that noelle thought bout killing kris.
When Noelle's HP drops... It stops at 55.
Why 55?
...
...translate 50 into roman numerals.
50 is L.
5 is V.
...55.
Noelle became stronger.
Level up.
Level of Violence
That line of dialogue from Chara is actually being misconstrued!
They tell you to seek a different *path* , to wipe away this save file so you can move on to a better route, even Flowey talks about worlds & *his* worlds, but they just mean save files. They don't want to kill monsters, you only fed them that LV & EXP, they tried to save monsterkind with Asriel even though it went bad. They want you to do a pacifist route, they're not a murderer, or a bad kid - they're just easily influenced like Noelle :( Chara & Noelle parallel very well, with the 'getting stronger' & becoming less timid.
It's actually more backed up that Kris' soul is the red soul from a pacifist run! ^.^
thing is, it's pretty heavily implied that chara wasn't a good person in the first place. meanwhile, noelle isn't even slightly bad normally
Chara: literally destroys than entirety of the Undertale universe.
This guy: They’re just easily influenced!
Sth could've happened if you iet Kris be defeated by Berdly.
I was really curious on hearing Casey's thoughts regarding Berdly cuz I know they don't really like him and in this scene he's, wow.. it almost doesn't feel like Berdly.
It's what happens when a massive dumbass ends up in a very serious situation, they end up acting very differently
Oh boy oh boy, here we go!
36:08 Kris actually does it the moss on any non snowgrave run regardless of whether susie and ralsei or noelle are there
You missed it but Kris smiles into the screen when Noelle freezes the annoying mouse room 3.
No :)
Noelle: Kris, why did you bring me here? No one's home, and yet this is so nostalgic.
Did Kris bring Noelle somewhere alone for some purpose?
I nearly SCREAMED seeing this notification hell yeah
If you complete the Genocide Run twice, Chara says that "we eradicated the enemy and became strong". And here, Noelle rationalizes following Kris' orders because she's "getting stronger".
Maybe a sign that BOTH have been manipulated into violence by the Player.
Well, in Chara’s case, they a r e the player.
@@georgy2596 Chara has plenty of backstory and seems to speak directly to the player, which would be odd if they're supposed to be a player stand-in. But it's ambiguous enough to allow for that interpretation. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Chara's a parallel to the player like Flowey, not "the player"
So here’s a little creepy fact the hp that Noelle goes to in the berdly fight in Roman numerals is LV
ewiewiewi first video of yours I'mwatching!! very entertainging :3
Oooh yes! I was waiting for this!
By the way I think you missed the "room between" where you see the "well there is a man here" and you get the egg for this chapter
this is very very interesting wouldn't you two agree?
Very... *unique* choice of words.
there is two people controlling kris you and The mystery person who takes out they soul that is The player and The mystery person takes out the soul so they can get more control of kris The mystery person is not the knight since they have no idea of the fountain in chapter 1 so my prediction is it’s something related to gaster
Oh, forgot to ask. What was the most unsettling thing for you about this route?
Be it things you encountered or found in the comments.
While i don't particularly believe that chara has anything at all to do with deltarune, i can see an instance that could be explained with chara, such as the player being connected to kris (since kris was clearly "fine" before the events of the game, before we take control) perhaps chara is the one who made that connection.
This theory has practically no evidence... like, at all.
I also don't particularly take the "for those that *completed* undertale" the same way you do. It seems like deltarune is an AU rather than being directly connected to undertale in a timeline based manner. I think this means that it's meant for those who have seen most of the dialouge options so that you understand the referances, tiny hints and other things that relate to the returning characters or the world lore in general (though it seems like deltarune may not follow the exact same "rules" as undertale does because of a few pieces of dialouge)
I also personally doubt that toby wants anything to be connected to the genocide route as it goes against everything undertale stands for, i think if it were connected directly to undertale it would be through the pacifist route. That also has no evidence, just a hunch.
I just want to put a little reminder out there. This is your fault, as the player. We may not know kris's ideals or wants, but to clarify, this is not kris. This is you. This is part of why i don't like the thing about chara. The game seems to be really pushing that you are the bad guy in some way, shape, or form no matter what, and connecting chara seems to (directly or indirectly) put blame on them instead of you.
@@ItsB1998 this is something i'm pretty confused about currently, and it's something that will probably get answered as more chapters come out. We don't really know *how much* control we have over kris. While we may not physically control kris, they always do what we say no matter what, even when it's very clear kris disagrees. This begs the question "why does kris listen to us when they dislike our decisions". They also hesitate when told to say specific things. So it seems that the player does have significant control over most of kris's actions, but we don't know the specifics.
@@ItsB1998 the most substantial of these hesitations though, is the post-spamton neo fight where kris is at an extremely low mental position after assumedly being traumatized by spamtons puppet situation. It's very clear that kris wants to say "no" because they starts yelling it. When you say "yes" they say it very strained, as if they're physically trying to say otherwise. Kris does things you tell them to do whether they like it or not, such as being affectionate towards ralsie (if tea theory is true). It's clear kris is not entirely in control or else why would they do things they dislike, and why would they be so traumatized by spamton's puppet theme.
@@ItsB1998 that is a possibility, i do want to point out that ralsei could be just trying to end the conversation as he acts suspiciously during the start trying to brush things off like nothing happened. This could be ralsei just trying to be nice and not bringing up the event that clearly scared kris, or it could be ralsei trying to get everyone to stop asking questions. As i said, we have *just* enough info to make these theories with little evidence, but not quite enough to draw much of a conclusion, since both of us can keep giving alternate scenarios depending on the same dialouge.
(haven't watched yet) HAHA UH OH 😃
Edit: About your Chara suggestion, I personally don't think that Chara _wanted_ to mess things up at all in Undertale. But yes, what the player does in the genocide route could've persuaded them to believe killing is the right thing and move on to Deltarune?
This is the first I've watched of the weird route. I knew the basic plot beats, but jeez... it's hard to watch. Let alone play
Yayyy i waited for this
You can’t make a difference, but others can
I just started my first snowgrave run and have to already re-do it because you can miss so much stuff
No one is gonna talk how in 49:14 Kris smiles?
that’s just the fence, but it does look a bit creepy
hold on a fucking second. 'when i see a big pit, all i wanna do is jump in'. asriel confessing his sin of throwing not-yoshi in the pit to jump higher, even though he loves not-yoshi and had at least one birthday party themed after him. susiezilla on tv. the high likelihood that the not-mario game is in the house and will therefore be in ch 3. its all fucking connected man spamton was highly linked to kris, ch 3s secret boss will be highly linked to susie and not-yoshi. both susie and the preacher talking about asriels sins specifically used the word pit, not cliff or edge etc which would also be realistic to a not-mario game. sorry for randomly posting this on an old video i just never noticed that dialogue link before, since most people dont pick that option