That was so misleading, it felt like terran was dominating in game with massive harrassment. But he was basically trading gas for minerals and could not afford the high tech units.
Bad casting... supply, tec and structures were telling the true story. Special really never had the advantage. I regret the times when casters were not constantly focused on creating hype and actually gave good overview of the match. This time apparently they didn't even know Reynor already defeated Special once before the 2nd game...
Interesting debate... and in the end i do not think we have so much different opinion. What i'm stating is that they both played great, but the balance was always in the middle until Reynor managed to get the upper hand in the late game. It is true that Special kept attacking, killed some workers and some hatcheries, but if you look at Reynor's workers number, supplies and producion you will see there were never a moment were he was really down, because there was never a great loss, but he just kept loosing bits and replacing them quickly... yes of course had he made some mistakes after receiving a blow then he could have been finished off, but same went for Special: had he took a very unfavorable trade he would have lost his pressure on Reynor and inevitably loose the game. So what i'm stating is that it was right to praise Special for the great job, the problem is that at the same time Raynor was doing an equally great job, defending loosing just bits every time, so i found quite misleading a 15/20 minutes commentary that basically kept making it seem Special was dominating. Yes, usually the attacking player has the upper hand, but in TvZ it's a classic from zerg to defend until mid/late game and if the final blow doesn't come then they win in the late game. In fact, in the end, Special never broke the defense, finding a killing blow, and Reynor won...
To be honest, without the hypecasting, I might not be watching sc2. Just wanted to let you know, that there are people who enjoy this. The caster also has been around for so long, I thought people would have get used to it
The games shows the difference between T and Z. T makes a mistake, it's GG, Z makes a mistake, T has maybe a chance. Just watch this A-moving of Reynor and the micro Special has to use. And Zerg is winning although playing worse. ( first game of course )
Well I just mean that the way Special played missed something that brings him the victory. Usually you use harassments to prepare for one big push based on tanks (less common on libs and mines) that will breach the zerg's territory and leads to a gg. But he missed that. In the pure latgame, zerg is just stronger than terran and can remax much more quickly. So you have to find those sweet spots when you are able to close the game.
omg it must be the most frustrating thing to fight special, every 10 seconds something else goes wrong, something else to pay attention to all the while the main army creeps forward wow, gratz raynor even rouge would find specials play hard to deal with, very impressive
Game 1: Terran 'wins' all the time, but Zerg supply and bank is still always higher from beginning to end, wtf ) Special was winning whole midgame, but it just made him not lose in midgame?
Late game zerg and toss are both kinda bs. I mean, SpeCial played that game incredibly the whole time through game one. He didn't lose an scv for 2/3rds of the game and was constantly pressing Reynor and wrecking all of his hatcherys, yet still lost that game. It's ridiculous.
He was trading minerals for gas the entire game. Vs zerg you need to kill drones, NOT hatcheries. Hatcheries are easy and cheap to build, I can spam those. But if he had focussed on drones instaed, its over for zerg.
Full disclosure. I like protoss...and hate zerg. Hate. like old racist granny hate. zerg everything about them...but I actually like watching reynor. This is the second series I've seen him play. I think the last zerg I actively searched for was maybe jaedong. Reynor is gonna be great to watch
Serral almost always devolves to grinding his opponent down with cheesy roach and ravager micro which is as fun as drying paint to watch. Whereas reynor's style of tactical positioning and guerrilla warfare is just fun.
In the first game, if Special expanded on only one direction he could have win. Terran army in late game isn't mobile, even if you play bio. At least not mobile enough to fight being harassed by lings in 3 bases at time.
Game one is a great example of how a far superior player could dominate the map, however simply losing similar resources to a Zerg opponent (holding on for dear life mind you) puts him in an inevitably loosing position. See how he's sweating and that pig-faced buffoon sits there all cocky; "I just hold off for a while, loose a bunch of hatcheries/workers/multiple armies- no matter! If I tech to brood lords and mass corrupter I win.. It's just the way it goes!"
The thing with playing as Terran and Protoss against Zerg is that you Always have to harass the Zerg player all the time, you cant leave the Zerg taking a breather and letting scout your base, like someone said in the comments, even if you manage to kill 20 drones you can still lose, and I have seen it too. For me this game is to unbalanced to favor for the Zerg.
Raynor is really good, but he wins on Specials mistakes. Silly mistakes. Wich sadens me to have such disappointing game endings losing on directly low skill play/mistakes and not getting close and exciting games. Even if he became nervous it is disappointing so experienced and skilled he is to throw the games like that.
Watching SpeCial play game 1 almost perfectly and outplay Reynor all game but still lose... ugh, it reminds me why I hate this game. As much as I want to like it you have to be ferociously more skilled to beat a zerg player. Blizzard just can't stop bending over backwards to help zerg win. It seems like so many ZvT/ZvP games are a shittier zerg player crutching on the OP and winning anyway (and it's been this way for years).
Sorry but Reynor was on par. How could you miss that he always defended perfectly, sending just the right amount of units everywhere? Both players played an extremely great match there .
noneedforaname "defended perfectly"???? He lost his entire infrastructure of hatcheries almost twice over and lost near-comparable or worse unit values afterwards every time it happened, and his drones were chain massacred. I respect Rayner. He played well and the second and third games he earned, but that first game was just zerg crutching. He lost by all accounts. This is why you walk into LAN centres and the only Starcraft 2 players are in coop with each other. If coop wasn't a success this would basically be an indie multiplier game right now. Nobody who values army balance can take it seriously anymore.
He did not lose his entire infrastructure. Just some hatcheries. But you can replace them easily as a Zerg. That's the point. Reynor did not lose any critical tech or make a huge mistake either. And look at the supply please. It's very even for almost all match long.
Misreads opponent's opening, doesn't cross into the other side of the map for most of the game, loses 8 hatches and ten times as many drones, still rolls over a top tier terran end game. That's TvZ balance for you.
Terran is so underpowered, insane harass, good upgrades, perfectly timed bases and finds damage everywhere and Terran still can't win. We need seeker missile back. Not shredder missile it's the only way to deal with broodlord corrupter. Terran needs a buff for late game
Jack Stewart total agree with that. I see that corruptors are way op. Special lost game 1 because of the Zerg op corruptors. Anti armoured missile and fighting above missile turrets against Vikings and still winning. Fight at 23:00 game 1. Blahhhh to blizzard
Well I would not say that terran is underpowered. If you watch the gsl you will see that terran is able to compete with any other race but not in the very lategame. So Terran has to find its windows to close the game. Mostly you can't rely on a passive macro game and just play one big push. You have to haras and get good trades and get an advantage, then a big attack closes the game. If you just play macro vs macro with one big attack the trades for zerg will be much better and for protoss you will usually just get crushed. In this game special missed the window to close the game and his trades weren't perfect. Nevertheless the required skill to play the style of special is in my opinion much higher than what reynor did in this game but skill without required efficiency doesn't lead to victory in scII.
Zerg is supposed to be that strong if you let them get to late game. They both played really well, but reading the comments about ZvT being imba is silly. Mules are still the most overpowered thing in the game.
The state of sc is quite poor. Really sad to see my favorite game bend so unfairly toward one race. Against pro Zerg it's like most games become a "survive the swarm for as long as you can" mission. The best chance T or P have in late game is to play to the point Zerg has lost twice the recourses and then bleed them dry. Zerg could always mass produce units quickly but remaking an entire army at the speed of a single unit?
No turrents on 3 bases...what. If I had been a zerg I had done the same. To drop the thors with no turrents at home, no scan for spires, no no no. You cant do that at the pro scene lol. The thor drop move is not even game breaking and pretty risky. The zerg just rebuild the base another place and you risk losing the game playing smart. Silly.
I watch the series and I'm discussed that special lost to op costic spray and op corroptor in game 1 . For the love of the game nerf the spray and stop handicapping Terran every patch.
Terran here. While I agree Terran has a rather weak late game, but look at Zerg. They are basically always on the receiving end in the early game. Special pulled some falshy moves, thats for sure but his macro is just bad. Even with killing 10 drones each drop, he is still behind.
Actually it had more to do with poor economic trades, resulting in Special having no bank towards to the late game meaning Reynor could start macroing up. Check the unit lost screen throught the first match you'll see he was really not going as well as the aggressive harassment led on. Besides that Reynor keep his upgrades on point and waited for the opportunity to wipe most of his army. Terran doesnt build very fast so loosing even 1/5 of your army late game is a death sentence
![[GSL vs. the World 2019] Ro.16 Match7 SpeCial vs Reynor](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/8PTtaNkHAQE/mqdefault.jpg)
what a game 1.... insaaaane...
the power of Mexico vs Italy
11:20 Game 1
Shy Tamir thanks
Doing god's work.
Thank you, good sir.
The first game was one of the most beautiful intense and impressive games i have ever seen . No mater who won it both players performed amazingly .
That was so misleading, it felt like terran was dominating in game with massive harrassment. But he was basically trading gas for minerals and could not afford the high tech units.
Bad casting... supply, tec and structures were telling the true story. Special really never had the advantage. I regret the times when casters were not constantly focused on creating hype and actually gave good overview of the match.
This time apparently they didn't even know Reynor already defeated Special once before the 2nd game...
Interesting debate... and in the end i do not think we have so much different opinion.
What i'm stating is that they both played great, but the balance was always in the middle until Reynor managed to get the upper hand in the late game. It is true that Special kept attacking, killed some workers and some hatcheries, but if you look at Reynor's workers number, supplies and producion you will see there were never a moment were he was really down, because there was never a great loss, but he just kept loosing bits and replacing them quickly... yes of course had he made some mistakes after receiving a blow then he could have been finished off, but same went for Special: had he took a very unfavorable trade he would have lost his pressure on Reynor and inevitably loose the game.
So what i'm stating is that it was right to praise Special for the great job, the problem is that at the same time Raynor was doing an equally great job, defending loosing just bits every time, so i found quite misleading a 15/20 minutes commentary that basically kept making it seem Special was dominating. Yes, usually the attacking player has the upper hand, but in TvZ it's a classic from zerg to defend until mid/late game and if the final blow doesn't come then they win in the late game.
In fact, in the end, Special never broke the defense, finding a killing blow, and Reynor won...
To be honest, without the hypecasting, I might not be watching sc2. Just wanted to let you know, that there are people who enjoy this. The caster also has been around for so long, I thought people would have get used to it
The games shows the difference between T and Z. T makes a mistake, it's GG, Z makes a mistake, T has maybe a chance. Just watch this A-moving of Reynor and the micro Special has to use. And Zerg is winning although playing worse. ( first game of course )
Well I just mean that the way Special played missed something that brings him the victory. Usually you use harassments to prepare for one big push based on tanks (less common on libs and mines) that will breach the zerg's territory and leads to a gg. But he missed that. In the pure latgame, zerg is just stronger than terran and can remax much more quickly. So you have to find those sweet spots when you are able to close the game.
23:22
"Not a single SCV has died, and that means you're doing it right, here!"
(immediately after) "Neosteel frames? that's gotta be a mistake"
omg it must be the most frustrating thing to fight special, every 10 seconds something else goes wrong, something else to pay attention to all the while the main army creeps forward
wow, gratz raynor even rouge would find specials play hard to deal with, very impressive
Just began playing the game again after years. It's a no brainer to see that zerg is op. Corrupters are mad op with that ability.
Roaches new evolve thingy with that ability that rains down orange projectile, op.
Missile turrets and Vikings. Dodging the bile is about as hard to dodge as a nuke.
2018, still not 1080p... why?
Awesome games!!! Love Raynor play style!!!
Gran batalla, digno de un aplauso ....like si eres latino
This kids is gonna go far! :D
He took Maru 1 game, he is amazing
Mano, ganhar do special dessa forma foi a melhor coisa que já vi.
Is it Reynor playing with his 35 years old self ?
Is that a fight of future against the past?
Is Reynor Special's secret son?
Wtf ?
Sorry but no way this fatty can have a son.
great casting.
Will the EU challenger be posted here?
that first game was like the best one in this WCS
Game one is a great example of how Zerg Is the lamest race with little skill required
I mean just look at all the dmg terrain does in the beginning any other race would have lost
special Terran 4 life. You only get games like this with Special.
Game 1: Terran 'wins' all the time, but Zerg supply and bank is still always higher from beginning to end, wtf )
Special was winning whole midgame, but it just made him not lose in midgame?
My future with starcraft II is entering next year's wcs circuit
Terran Gabe Newell is a beast.
Late game zerg and toss are both kinda bs. I mean, SpeCial played that game incredibly the whole time through game one. He didn't lose an scv for 2/3rds of the game and was constantly pressing Reynor and wrecking all of his hatcherys, yet still lost that game. It's ridiculous.
lol what a smug smile but definitely deserved to feel good
tod lookin' fire 🔥🔥🔥
Como dirian los mexicanos: " *Reynor le pegó al gordo* "
it looks like a match between generations, special representing SC 1 :-D
I like Reynor. He smiles.
if you dont do it yet, watch games at 1.5 speed way more exciting haha
That game one was excellent. A ton of harassment that many others players would have folded under, but in the end it wasn't enough!
9:48 there's a huge crack on the screen
Lol specials reaction quite funny when he first crosses Reynor at the beginning to shake hands .. its like "yea whatever .. lets get this over with"
at 1:08 you can see zerg so op that reynor beat him with only useing one eyeball
No change.... ZERG is still over powered.
so he kills like 5 hatcheries and still struggles to kill him lol mind you no scv's dead at this point
6 actually, lol @_@
He was trading minerals for gas the entire game. Vs zerg you need to kill drones, NOT hatcheries. Hatcheries are easy and cheap to build, I can spam those. But if he had focussed on drones instaed, its over for zerg.
That stuck pixel on Special cam...
Full disclosure. I like protoss...and hate zerg. Hate. like old racist granny hate. zerg everything about them...but I actually like watching reynor. This is the second series I've seen him play. I think the last zerg I actively searched for was maybe jaedong. Reynor is gonna be great to watch
Serral is pretty enjoyable to watch. Like a chess master in his prime.
Serral almost always devolves to grinding his opponent down with cheesy roach and ravager micro which is as fun as drying paint to watch. Whereas reynor's style of tactical positioning and guerrilla warfare is just fun.
Reynor winning that first game was impressive. His macro was on point to have kept up the whole time. Expecting great things from him in the future.
Special lost the game at 12:36 by not seiging in time. All he needed was 1 forward tank, if even that.
gooo Rey!
In the first game, if Special expanded on only one direction he could have win. Terran army in late game isn't mobile, even if you play bio. At least not mobile enough to fight being harassed by lings in 3 bases at time.
dudeeeeee. this kid is soo sickk. #reynor
6000/2000 and not researching burrow - I cant unterstand this. Such a strong tool to pull micro out of your opponent
La cruzazuleo special desde el primer encuentro :/
Maynard's terran bias is showing
Fiirst game at 8:20 but quick technical difficulties stop it. In full around 11:15
Game one is a great example of how a far superior player could dominate the map, however simply losing similar resources to a Zerg opponent (holding on for dear life mind you) puts him in an inevitably loosing position. See how he's sweating and that pig-faced buffoon sits there all cocky; "I just hold off for a while, loose a bunch of hatcheries/workers/multiple armies- no matter! If I tech to brood lords and mass corrupter I win.. It's just the way it goes!"
The thing with playing as Terran and Protoss against Zerg is that you Always have to harass the Zerg player all the time, you cant leave the Zerg taking a breather and letting scout your base, like someone said in the comments, even if you manage to kill 20 drones you can still lose, and I have seen it too.
For me this game is to unbalanced to favor for the Zerg.
32:33!!!
That first game was a pretty bad example of a war of attrition
Which nation copy another national flag here
What the heck?! 19:52
Hi, I come for the KSL.
De sooplaie
REYNOR!!! FINALLY
Grizzly Bear Special, aka: Gru.
Raynor is really good, but he wins on Specials mistakes. Silly mistakes. Wich sadens me to have such disappointing game endings losing on directly low skill play/mistakes and not getting close and exciting games. Even if he became nervous it is disappointing so experienced and skilled he is to throw the games like that.
More hatches died than SCVs.
How the feck Special lost 1st game? One big mistake - he played terran.
*maru
Special! Go Zerg! ;)
Vai Reynor!!
zerg is op i have big problem with zerg, banelings transfusion corruptors broods just bs op
Corruptors grossly op. Can't win air vs air against corruptors now that Ravens are nerfed.
has always to be a air vs air winner, you nerf corruptors and another unit will be
Quite sure liberator can win it if massed. It even beat carrier mass vs mass
Nah. You just need good viking kiting and ground support.
I dont like Special have an aggressive attack, but he s always heat up the game hot-hotter-hottier
GET REKT BOY!!!!
zerg is way op im thinking about just quiting this unbalanced game
that's what happens when you waste so much resources on harrasment
so many games were they even take out 20 drones early 6 minutes and zerg still wins, its bs.
16 yo overmind
Mexico vs Italy!
heinor isn't human !
Watching SpeCial play game 1 almost perfectly and outplay Reynor all game but still lose... ugh, it reminds me why I hate this game. As much as I want to like it you have to be ferociously more skilled to beat a zerg player. Blizzard just can't stop bending over backwards to help zerg win. It seems like so many ZvT/ZvP games are a shittier zerg player crutching on the OP and winning anyway (and it's been this way for years).
Sorry but Reynor was on par. How could you miss that he always defended perfectly, sending just the right amount of units everywhere? Both players played an extremely great match there .
noneedforaname "defended perfectly"???? He lost his entire infrastructure of hatcheries almost twice over and lost near-comparable or worse unit values afterwards every time it happened, and his drones were chain massacred.
I respect Rayner. He played well and the second and third games he earned, but that first game was just zerg crutching. He lost by all accounts. This is why you walk into LAN centres and the only Starcraft 2 players are in coop with each other. If coop wasn't a success this would basically be an indie multiplier game right now. Nobody who values army balance can take it seriously anymore.
Special always plays perfectly and then loses. Guess you didn't watch many of his games.
He did not lose his entire infrastructure. Just some hatcheries. But you can replace them easily as a Zerg. That's the point. Reynor did not lose any critical tech or make a huge mistake either. And look at the supply please. It's very even for almost all match long.
@Valken Which is sad, but true... :'-)
he just have 16 and becomes playing from 10 years old thas insame XD reynor y have a new fan !!
Misreads opponent's opening, doesn't cross into the other side of the map for most of the game, loses 8 hatches and ten times as many drones, still rolls over a top tier terran end game. That's TvZ balance for you.
Terran is so underpowered, insane harass, good upgrades, perfectly timed bases and finds damage everywhere and Terran still can't win. We need seeker missile back. Not shredder missile it's the only way to deal with broodlord corrupter. Terran needs a buff for late game
Jack Stewart total agree with that. I see that corruptors are way op. Special lost game 1 because of the Zerg op corruptors. Anti armoured missile and fighting above missile turrets against Vikings and still winning. Fight at 23:00 game 1. Blahhhh to blizzard
At least they could remove corruptor's abilities to kill CCs :O
BC buff plox
Well I would not say that terran is underpowered. If you watch the gsl you will see that terran is able to compete with any other race but not in the very lategame. So Terran has to find its windows to close the game. Mostly you can't rely on a passive macro game and just play one big push. You have to haras and get good trades and get an advantage, then a big attack closes the game. If you just play macro vs macro with one big attack the trades for zerg will be much better and for protoss you will usually just get crushed. In this game special missed the window to close the game and his trades weren't perfect. Nevertheless the required skill to play the style of special is in my opinion much higher than what reynor did in this game but skill without required efficiency doesn't lead to victory in scII.
Special is just not that good.
ffs cut that hair reynor.
buff special
GAME 1 WTFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
o.m.g # Rayner not noon eny more:D
REYNOR!!!!
Zerg is supposed to be that strong if you let them get to late game. They both played really well, but reading the comments about ZvT being imba is silly. Mules are still the most overpowered thing in the game.
The state of sc is quite poor. Really sad to see my favorite game bend so unfairly toward one race. Against pro Zerg it's like most games become a "survive the swarm for as long as you can" mission. The best chance T or P have in late game is to play to the point Zerg has lost twice the recourses and then bleed them dry. Zerg could always mass produce units quickly but remaking an entire army at the speed of a single unit?
Pls someone pls cute his hair...
Reynor aka when parenthood has been done right
No turrents on 3 bases...what. If I had been a zerg I had done the same. To drop the thors with no turrents at home, no scan for spires, no no no. You cant do that at the pro scene lol. The thor drop move is not even game breaking and pretty risky. The zerg just rebuild the base another place and you risk losing the game playing smart. Silly.
Special was hella "Especially Salty"...bad sportsmanship and loses some respect, from me at least. He was simply outplayed.
Do some workout to melt your fat special
thumbs down for the two false starts that just lead to more blahblahblah
I was a fastest player at 16. SoLo_SluG 2200 wins // 200 losses. All legit. Me and my bro would do 2v6 even, and win.
Then go pro
Such bs 8 hatch kills and still loses game 1.. Speaks volumes on the poor balance. Special way outplayed Raynor on game 1.
I watch the series and I'm discussed that special lost to op costic spray and op corroptor in game 1 . For the love of the game nerf the spray and stop handicapping Terran every patch.
Brad Gerard It's "disgusted"
Terran here. While I agree Terran has a rather weak late game, but look at Zerg. They are basically always on the receiving end in the early game. Special pulled some falshy moves, thats for sure but his macro is just bad. Even with killing 10 drones each drop, he is still behind.
Actually it had more to do with poor economic trades, resulting in Special having no bank towards to the late game meaning Reynor could start macroing up. Check the unit lost screen throught the first match you'll see he was really not going as well as the aggressive harassment led on.
Besides that Reynor keep his upgrades on point and waited for the opportunity to wipe most of his army. Terran doesnt build very fast so loosing even 1/5 of your army late game is a death sentence
Matthew Hardesty yep bad spelling
The stingy thread evidently tickle because stage differently educate around a delicious protocol. slimy, well-made pancake